My fencing instructor (MSU Bozeman MT, 1985) disarmed me by hitting my foil blade and wrapping it and then flinging it out of my hand where it fell clear across the basketball-court & the guard rang like a bell on the free-throw line. He used the flexibility of his blade like it was Jackie Chan. Watching my sword go flying was worth the student loans.
That disarm they show is called the "vine" disarm in Filipino stick fighting martial arts. It's performed very similarly. I've done epee sport fencing & occasionally I've unintentionally disarmed my opponent. But it doesn't get you any points in sport fencing; it just stops the action until your opponent retrieves the weapon.
This is very interesting for someone like me whom comes from a background knowledge only in cutting weapons and cutting attack disarms. It seems that the core basis of such disarms as counters would be identical in timing and tempo to, say, a Longsword or an Arming Sword disarm, even if the individual techniques are obviously different.
Perhaps you will like this movie, if you have not already seen. ruclips.net/video/tjbOmjXbatw/видео.html "Alatriste - rapier and dagger dual" Good stuff
I think I'm going to start coming to your class in January. I work at Worthmore in Decatur square and at the moment and Thursdays are open past 2100 but once the holidays end I plan to start taking this course once we go back to normal hours.
+russell thompson join fencing club that does historical fencing. I have found the Hanwei rapiers to be the best for your buck. there are much more expensive ones and cheaper ones but i like the Hanwei the best.it actually has some good weight to it which makes it more accurate to how a real rapier would fell to use. www.kultofathena.com has them. I really like the Spanish cup hilt the best by far. It offers the best hand protection and the quillions can be useful everyone in a while. There are a lot of clubs proving up that will have slightly different rules but search for a historical fencing. SCA has it and that is fine. they often don't have as good of a background in actual fencing but its still good. I do highly recommend doing sport fencing too. it really really helps if you have actual training in things like footwork, distance and point control.
"È guanto che di spada sola, perché non solo parano con la mano, ma ancora prendon l'arma et la tengono salda, cosa che non pare a noi riuscibile con la spada bianca, cioè da filo" "By glove instead of sword, 'cause they parry with the left hand and also grab the enemy sword: that seem not so healthy with sharpened swords" "Meglio et più facile è il ferire questo che adoperano la mano che quelli che si difendono con la sola spada, perché fidandosi essi della mano non tengono conto del forte della propria spada" "Is easiest to wound who use the hand than who parry only with the sword, because they trust more in their hand instead of their swords forte" Salvatore Fabris
Parrying with the off-hand is a well-documented and respected technique in historical rapier fencing. As long as it is done with some measure of care, it's perfectly viable -- especially with a decent set of gloves. It's also preferable to taking a rapier point through the center of mass and allows a counterattack with one's own sword.
Practice makes good and good practice makes perfect. These moves seem to be purely for establishing habits in combat that you can rely on. However, when your opponent is just standing there, waiting to be run through, it's difficult to grasp how these things actually work. Evenly paired, your opponent will defend in any way he or she can and you'll have to recover and deal with that. You-tube is great for spurring on interest but, at some point, you need to pick up a sword and start practicing I guess. Time to start shopping.
why are you guys not tucking your vita? your stance is so far forward that it seems like it temps you in to making foil style lunges (long lunges) (ruclips.net/video/MCUc80EObE4/видео.htmlm25s) her feet was off the ground making so she could not respond tell she hit the ground, do to the long lung she had to drag her back foot to bleed off the power. I am just trying to see if this was intentional. But I like a lot of your disarms and i will have to try some, Thanks!
Can you answer a question? I took a fencing class while in college, and there was a move by rotating the foil in a circular motion quickly, and if done right could take the foil out of the opponent's hand, disarming him. I did once to my instructor but now, many years later, I have someone doubting this move.
It's totally a thing! I've done it a number of times in bouts. It is sometimes called a spiral disarmament, or a sforza. If you start from an engagement in a high line, make a transport to the low line, but let your blade slide along theirs to provide additional force against it.
Timothy Heimbach That's one of things that I find really interesting about this. I think one aspect may be that this kind of technique would be more suited to a friendly competition than an actual fight, in which case there may be an element, not only of hitting your opponent, but of looking really cool while doing it. Another thing, which I've found when I do perform this when bouting with rapier and dagger is that I sometimes just miss with the point, but continuing the movement with the dagger locks out my opponents weapon and sets me up for an easy dagger hit.
Timothy Heimbach I can't speak for how this works in a HEMA sense, but only in general terms. People are not immediately halted when you stab them. Even running them through the chest doesn't mean they'll instantly fall down and stop fighting. Disarming your opponent is very sensible. Police won't let a suspect retain their weapon even if they're on the ground after being shot, for example.
shadowblaster124 This is what I was going to mention. It is possible to find accounts of people, after being run through, winning the fight still. So, say you're point only goes through a lung or the meat of the shoulder, the opponent still has a small window to win the fight.
I'm a little bothered by the idea of grabbing a Rapier's blade......what if the owner keeps it sharpen? There must have been a lot of hand therapy clinics back in the day........
+Arturo Perez There are different schools or methodologies in the use of rapiers, regardless of who first developed the weapon. Italian rapier techniques are different than Spanish rapier techniques, etc.
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Videos like this are the only inspiration and guidance for us solo practioners with no schools near us, Please keep producing!
My fencing instructor (MSU Bozeman MT, 1985) disarmed me by hitting my foil blade and wrapping it and then flinging it out of my hand where it fell clear across the basketball-court & the guard rang like a bell on the free-throw line. He used the flexibility of his blade like it was Jackie Chan. Watching my sword go flying was worth the student loans.
That disarm they show is called the "vine" disarm in Filipino stick fighting martial arts. It's performed very similarly. I've done epee sport fencing & occasionally I've unintentionally disarmed my opponent. But it doesn't get you any points in sport fencing; it just stops the action until your opponent retrieves the weapon.
ooh, that's really interesting - I'd never heard of a vine disarm before. It does look really similar
Holy shit!? I saw this several months ago and just realized this is not far from me.
This is very interesting for someone like me whom comes from a background knowledge only in cutting weapons and cutting attack disarms.
It seems that the core basis of such disarms as counters would be identical in timing and tempo to, say, a Longsword or an Arming Sword disarm, even if the individual techniques are obviously different.
I'm reading 'The Drawing of the Dark' by Tim Powers.
The main protagonist uses a rapier and dagger combination.
Perhaps you will like this movie, if you have not already seen. ruclips.net/video/tjbOmjXbatw/видео.html
"Alatriste - rapier and dagger dual"
Good stuff
Interesting techniques and principles. Thanks for sharing.
I think I'm going to start coming to your class in January. I work at Worthmore in Decatur square and at the moment and Thursdays are open past 2100 but once the holidays end I plan to start taking this course once we go back to normal hours.
I've seen this before but never had it explained to me, thanks.
Awesome explanation thanks for sharing
meravigliosa dimostrazione dei principi di disarmante))) спасибо за видео, коллеги, понравилось!
This was great
Good footwork! 😊
Very cool
More birds next time
where does one find rapiers for practice? Are there any DVDs that cover basic rapier or fencing footwork?
+russell thompson join fencing club that does historical fencing. I have found the Hanwei rapiers to be the best for your buck. there are much more expensive ones and cheaper ones but i like the Hanwei the best.it actually has some good weight to it which makes it more accurate to how a real rapier would fell to use. www.kultofathena.com has them. I really like the Spanish cup hilt the best by far. It offers the best hand protection and the quillions can be useful everyone in a while.
There are a lot of clubs proving up that will have slightly different rules but search for a historical fencing. SCA has it and that is fine. they often don't have as good of a background in actual fencing but its still good.
I do highly recommend doing sport fencing too. it really really helps if you have actual training in things like footwork, distance and point control.
Is it possible to avoid a disarm?
"È guanto che di spada sola, perché non solo parano con la mano, ma ancora prendon l'arma et la tengono salda, cosa che non pare a noi riuscibile con la spada bianca, cioè da filo"
"By glove instead of sword, 'cause they parry with the left hand and also grab the enemy sword: that seem not so healthy with sharpened swords"
"Meglio et più facile è il ferire questo che adoperano la mano che quelli che si difendono con la sola spada, perché fidandosi essi della mano non tengono conto del forte della propria spada"
"Is easiest to wound who use the hand than who parry only with the sword, because they trust more in their hand instead of their swords forte"
Salvatore Fabris
Parrying with the off-hand is a well-documented and respected technique in historical rapier fencing. As long as it is done with some measure of care, it's perfectly viable -- especially with a decent set of gloves. It's also preferable to taking a rapier point through the center of mass and allows a counterattack with one's own sword.
Lawnmowers and birds have no respect for the art
Practice makes good and good practice makes perfect. These moves seem to be purely for establishing habits in combat that you can rely on. However, when your opponent is just standing there, waiting to be run through, it's difficult to grasp how these things actually work. Evenly paired, your opponent will defend in any way he or she can and you'll have to recover and deal with that.
You-tube is great for spurring on interest but, at some point, you need to pick up a sword and start practicing I guess.
Time to start shopping.
why are you guys not tucking your vita? your stance is so far forward that it seems like it temps you in to making foil style lunges (long lunges) (ruclips.net/video/MCUc80EObE4/видео.htmlm25s) her feet was off the ground making so she could not respond tell she hit the ground, do to the long lung she had to drag her back foot to bleed off the power. I am just trying to see if this was intentional. But I like a lot of your disarms and i will have to try some, Thanks!
why not grapple?
probably because you run the risk of being stabbed with a dagger.
Can you answer a question? I took a fencing class while in college, and there was a move by rotating the foil in a circular motion quickly, and if done right could take the foil out of the opponent's hand, disarming him. I did once to my instructor but now, many years later, I have someone doubting this move.
It's totally a thing! I've done it a number of times in bouts. It is sometimes called a spiral disarmament, or a sforza. If you start from an engagement in a high line, make a transport to the low line, but let your blade slide along theirs to provide additional force against it.
+David Coblentz, thanks so much for your response.
Um he's talking about olympic fencing I think, there's difference
:)
Ropera es solo española , la esgrima es española la escuela italiana no es de espada ropera
Since you have already stabbed your opponent why disarm them?
Timothy Heimbach That's one of things that I find really interesting about this. I think one aspect may be that this kind of technique would be more suited to a friendly competition than an actual fight, in which case there may be an element, not only of hitting your opponent, but of looking really cool while doing it. Another thing, which I've found when I do perform this when bouting with rapier and dagger is that I sometimes just miss with the point, but continuing the movement with the dagger locks out my opponents weapon and sets me up for an easy dagger hit.
Timothy Heimbach I can't speak for how this works in a HEMA sense, but only in general terms.
People are not immediately halted when you stab them. Even running them through the chest doesn't mean they'll instantly fall down and stop fighting. Disarming your opponent is very sensible. Police won't let a suspect retain their weapon even if they're on the ground after being shot, for example.
shadowblaster124 This is what I was going to mention. It is possible to find accounts of people, after being run through, winning the fight still. So, say you're point only goes through a lung or the meat of the shoulder, the opponent still has a small window to win the fight.
Seamus Collins Matt Easton has a few readings of such from the Swordsmen of the British Empire.
+Timothy Heimbach in a real fight, you might not even pierce what they're wearing
I'm a little bothered by the idea of grabbing a Rapier's blade......what if the owner keeps it sharpen?
There must have been a lot of hand therapy clinics back in the day........
Glove
wait so the sword aint sharp??? my whole life is a lie...
Italian rapier ??
I think the sword rapier is Spanish
+Arturo Perez Rapiers originated in Spain but those are Italian rapiers.
+Arturo Perez There are different schools or methodologies in the use of rapiers, regardless of who first developed the weapon. Italian rapier techniques are different than Spanish rapier techniques, etc.
dude stop talking your ruining the bird song in the foreground