Thanks for the video. What I understood is if the hard bag landed directly on your leg, ankle or foot is when problems happen. The soft bags would be less likely cause the break, just a trapped foot. Just what I have heard. I do not own soft bags yet but I do want to get them for off road. My reasoning is that when I do drop the bike that I will still have a water proof bag. Just thinking that the hard bag might get bent up if landed on something the wrong way. Thank you again for the great videos sir!
I looked at that injury potential, and just thought you had to be off the bike pretty far for that to happen, but it could. I dropped my last GSA in Colorado and bent the bag, it worked to get me home but never closed correctly after that...Thanks Dave
Dave, I bought a new GSA this year and bought the hard panniers to go with it (BMW / Touratech Panniers). A couple of weeks ago the front wheel washed out in deep gravel and I went down, I'm guessing around 30MPH +/- so relatively slow. The bike impacted the front right engine guard (bent in and cylinder head cover scratched up) but it also hit and slid along the right rear saddlebag which was just about ripped off. Decent deformation on the bottom area where it hit (exactly as you show in the video) but that force was enough that it broke part of the latching mechanism and bent some of the aluminum on the bag that holds it firm to the rear rack. I ended up with a sore right ankle and my inner thigh was pulled a bit, wearing Sidi Adventure 2 boots so moderate protection. Did the hard pannier contribute to or cause my ankle injury - no way of knowing. However, the issue is that "potentially" your foot can be dragged under that pannier and it can then hit your foot / ankle / leg. Plus, with much more force my pannier would have been ripped off entirely and then we are looking at a completely different scenario (you'd need to do another lean test for that :) ). I've since ordered Bumont Soft Panniers for when I'm doing more off roading than on. I like the idea of semi-firm Lone Riders but they are double the cost of the Bumont and I just don't ride enough to justify the cost differential.
The way you are thinking about your foot getting trapped in a drop is not the correct way that people get hurt with hard bags. Instead, think of it in this situation: A person is in somewhat rough terrain, or perhaps in a rut, therefore the tire is in a low spot and the terrain comes up on either side decreasing the clearance below the panniers. Instead of quickly dabbing and getting back on the pegs, the rider (more prevalent in inexperienced riders or less skilled) starts paddling or walking. This keeps the foot down longer, and the heel catches under the front of the pannier, with the weight of the bike driving the toes into the dirt. At this point the foot is trapped and the momentum of the bike continues forward snapping the leg bone or bones somewhere in the shin area. This is a typical example of the reason they say soft over hard for off road. A skilled rider with proper dab technique can avoid it but that’s the example. Happy riding.
Mosko Moto or Lone Rider, both are top quality, I just couldnt get my stuff in the Mosko Moto bags, volume is bigger in the Lone Rider. So consider volume as first choice. Hard versus soft....How much of a percentage of off road riding will you do? Chances of dropping the bike? If the answer is you expect or would probably drop the bike, go with soft bags, they have give as hard panniers bend....Hope that helps..Dave
I had a Tiger 800 and the aluminum panniers were right behind my legs. If I put my foot down before coming to a complete stop my leg would get caught between the panniers and the ground. I can there might be an issue breaking a leg with that bike. Your test with the height of the space between the ground and the panniers would only hold true if you keep your foot on the pegs when you fall. I think most riders would try to stop the fall by throwing a foot down. My BMW 1250’s panniers set back farther and are higher than my Tiger 800, so it is not an issue getting my leg caught. I bought the Lone Rider bags and don’t like them. They haven’t been out of my closet. They don’t have the build quality that belongs on a BMW. They lock, but are not nearly as secure as my aluminum panniers and I would not trust them to protect expensive camera. The Lone Rider bags are also are as heavy as the aluminum panniers. I think if I were concerned about hurting myself with the aluminum panniers I would go with the Mosko Moto bags. That being said most off road falls are at low speed and the rider has time to move their legs to prevent getting caught by the panniers. Another thing to consider is if you drop your bike it will sit at a better angle for lifting with aluminum panniers than soft bags. I ride alone most of the time and think there is a greater risk of injury from lifting my bike than breaking a leg in a fall. I dropped a KLR 650 on a sandy hill and broke a bicep tendon while picking it up. Since than I have learned how to properly pick up a bike. Thank you for this video and all the others I like the way you present the material.
I can't argue with your logic and you are probably right. I tried the Mosko Moto panniers and they were just too small for me, which led to the Lone Rider. I do like them with the exception of cleaning them, they are starting to look "old" and im not sure how to get them clean. As you mentioned the lock is not the greatest but its ok, the biggest struggle is mounting other items on the top of them...I do appreciate the feedback, thank you... Dave
@@KendallAdventureandTravel I think you missed my point. In English you would say, “I’ve run them.” I’m always shocked that many high level people never went to elementary school. Rachel Maddow, who has a PhD from Oxford starts sentences with the word, “Him.” As in, “Him and Sally…”. It’s embarrassing.
And I am an ER physician telling you that almost all fractures I see are from Hard bags not Soft and why? Because the riders legs get crushed from the hard bag falling on it and crushing the lower leg, ankle .YOU have not taken into account the DYNAMIC forces at play only static.
In the video I did not, but I have risen, a bunch and watched many folks drop these bikes, hard to blame the box for doing the damage, you had to be nearly off the bike to get your leg that far behind you. But its super easy to blame the box...Dave
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Excellent vidéo and démonstration 👍👍Thanks a lot
Thanks for watching...Dave
Thanks for the video. What I understood is if the hard bag landed directly on your leg, ankle or foot is when problems happen. The soft bags would be less likely cause the break, just a trapped foot. Just what I have heard. I do not own soft bags yet but I do want to get them for off road. My reasoning is that when I do drop the bike that I will still have a water proof bag. Just thinking that the hard bag might get bent up if landed on something the wrong way. Thank you again for the great videos sir!
I looked at that injury potential, and just thought you had to be off the bike pretty far for that to happen, but it could. I dropped my last GSA in Colorado and bent the bag, it worked to get me home but never closed correctly after that...Thanks Dave
With you 100% buddy 👍
Dave, I bought a new GSA this year and bought the hard panniers to go with it (BMW / Touratech Panniers). A couple of weeks ago the front wheel washed out in deep gravel and I went down, I'm guessing around 30MPH +/- so relatively slow. The bike impacted the front right engine guard (bent in and cylinder head cover scratched up) but it also hit and slid along the right rear saddlebag which was just about ripped off. Decent deformation on the bottom area where it hit (exactly as you show in the video) but that force was enough that it broke part of the latching mechanism and bent some of the aluminum on the bag that holds it firm to the rear rack.
I ended up with a sore right ankle and my inner thigh was pulled a bit, wearing Sidi Adventure 2 boots so moderate protection. Did the hard pannier contribute to or cause my ankle injury - no way of knowing.
However, the issue is that "potentially" your foot can be dragged under that pannier and it can then hit your foot / ankle / leg. Plus, with much more force my pannier would have been ripped off entirely and then we are looking at a completely different scenario (you'd need to do another lean test for that :) ).
I've since ordered Bumont Soft Panniers for when I'm doing more off roading than on. I like the idea of semi-firm Lone Riders but they are double the cost of the Bumont and I just don't ride enough to justify the cost differential.
Sorry to hear about your crash, and it sounds like you were lucky to not be injured any more than what you were...Dave
The way you are thinking about your foot getting trapped in a drop is not the correct way that people get hurt with hard bags. Instead, think of it in this situation: A person is in somewhat rough terrain, or perhaps in a rut, therefore the tire is in a low spot and the terrain comes up on either side decreasing the clearance below the panniers. Instead of quickly dabbing and getting back on the pegs, the rider (more prevalent in inexperienced riders or less skilled) starts paddling or walking. This keeps the foot down longer, and the heel catches under the front of the pannier, with the weight of the bike driving the toes into the dirt. At this point the foot is trapped and the momentum of the bike continues forward snapping the leg bone or bones somewhere in the shin area. This is a typical example of the reason they say soft over hard for off road. A skilled rider with proper dab technique can avoid it but that’s the example. Happy riding.
You do make a good point, but isnt the void that is created still big enough to protect the foot? I guess the obvious answer is no. Dave
Dave, do you still recommend the Lone rider soft bags over Mosko moto? Also, if you could only run hard or soft which would you choose and why?
Mosko Moto or Lone Rider, both are top quality, I just couldnt get my stuff in the Mosko Moto bags, volume is bigger in the Lone Rider. So consider volume as first choice. Hard versus soft....How much of a percentage of off road riding will you do? Chances of dropping the bike? If the answer is you expect or would probably drop the bike, go with soft bags, they have give as hard panniers bend....Hope that helps..Dave
Nice video Dave. Safety and injury aside…if you could only have one set, what would your choice be?
If I can only have one set, go with Hard Panniers, they seem to be a little more versatile for me..Dave
I had a Tiger 800 and the aluminum panniers were right behind my legs. If I put my foot down before coming to a complete stop my leg would get caught between the panniers and the ground. I can there might be an issue breaking a leg with that bike. Your test with the height of the space between the ground and the panniers would only hold true if you keep your foot on the pegs when you fall. I think most riders would try to stop the fall by throwing a foot down. My BMW 1250’s panniers set back farther and are higher than my Tiger 800, so it is not an issue getting my leg caught. I bought the Lone Rider bags and don’t like them. They haven’t been out of my closet. They don’t have the build quality that belongs on a BMW. They lock, but are not nearly as secure as my aluminum panniers and I would not trust them to protect expensive camera. The Lone Rider bags are also are as heavy as the aluminum panniers. I think if I were concerned about hurting myself with the aluminum panniers I would go with the Mosko Moto bags. That being said most off road falls are at low speed and the rider has time to move their legs to prevent getting caught by the panniers. Another thing to consider is if you drop your bike it will sit at a better angle for lifting with aluminum panniers than soft bags. I ride alone most of the time and think there is a greater risk of injury from lifting my bike than breaking a leg in a fall. I dropped a KLR 650 on a sandy hill and broke a bicep tendon while picking it up. Since than I have learned how to properly pick up a bike. Thank you for this video and all the others I like the way you present the material.
I can't argue with your logic and you are probably right. I tried the Mosko Moto panniers and they were just too small for me, which led to the Lone Rider. I do like them with the exception of cleaning them, they are starting to look "old" and im not sure how to get them clean. As you mentioned the lock is not the greatest but its ok, the biggest struggle is mounting other items on the top of them...I do appreciate the feedback, thank you... Dave
I know 2 guys that broke thier legs with hard bags. That’s 20% of the guys I know personally, too high a risk.
I guess numbers like that can't be ignored....Dave
what's to say the same wouldn't have happened with soft bags?
“I’ve ran them.”
As have I, and will again...Dave
@@KendallAdventureandTravel I think you missed my point. In English you would say, “I’ve run them.” I’m always shocked that many high level people never went to elementary school. Rachel Maddow, who has a PhD from Oxford starts sentences with the word, “Him.” As in, “Him and Sally…”. It’s embarrassing.
@@robertlee8042 Grammar lesson at 0200..Gotcha, Thanks
And I am an ER physician telling you that almost all fractures I see are from Hard bags not Soft and why? Because the riders legs get crushed from the hard bag falling on it and crushing the lower leg, ankle .YOU have not taken into account the DYNAMIC forces at play only static.
In the video I did not, but I have risen, a bunch and watched many folks drop these bikes, hard to blame the box for doing the damage, you had to be nearly off the bike to get your leg that far behind you. But its super easy to blame the box...Dave