My head canon is that just coming up with one good idea makes you a "brilliant scientist" on Planet Vegeta, because he invented the technique of making an Artificial Moon (I forgot what it's called) so the saiyans can transform into their Great Ape form because they ran into some radical weaponry on Rygol 7 and things were looking grim until Kakarot's genius father created an energy source that perfectly simulated full moon light. (I had to watch the clip because I only saw the Japanese dub)
Well, there's a drawing from Toyotaro that shows the rest of Bardock's squad about to get killed by Dodoria like in the old special, so there's that at least. XD
That makes it worse, because Bardock has his red headband during Minus and Broly, so he has his red headband for no reason. Its not Towa's white band blood soaked, its just a red headband because it looks cool and iconic. thats dumb.
I do consider this canon, but in its own separate continuity. That being the original anime continuity which terminated in GT. Dragonball Minus, which I am personally fine with, is canonical to the new anime continuity and manga, just like Jaco manga is.
@@factfiend1000 That's not how canon works though. Anything penned by the original author is canon, first and foremost. While Akira Toriyama did write and draw DB Minus, as well as wrote the script for DBS Broly, he had no involvement with the Bardock special. The only thing he produced for that special were the character designs and names for Bardock and his squad.
The Autistic beaver Technically not, because there's a manga. Though the usage of filler as "anime-only" is also incorrect. Filler can be present in mangas as well, and is more properly used to describe events that do not forward the plot or characters in any meaningful way. Goku arriving on Earth as a baby is more accurately non-canon(using the word "canon" as in "possible when referenced with the latest entry made/supervised by Toriyama in the series - which currently is the latest manga chapter," since a lot of DB fans are sensitive about that word). In the original manga, the furthest back anyone referred to Goku was Roshi recounting that Grandpa Gohan vaguely told him that he was raising a kid he found in the forest. That can mean he found Goku anywhere between the ages of 0 - 12.
Yup….. Still annoys me, seriously Bardock: Father Of Goku was amazing!! One of my favorite things to come out of dragon ball. And it just gets replaced by something that ruins Bardock’s character and is generally just not as good. I hope the retcon gets retconned… Because god that special was amazing
I’m surprised they don’t retcon the history of trunks next. Toriyama even liked the original special and wanted to make it canon ages ago, just never fit into the story to mention Bardock. Idk why he rewrote it, maybe because he want to make Goku more like Superman as he got older.
@@fuckthisstupidasshandleshit Well Trunks the Story is, and History of Trunks just expanded on that. Its not like Bardock the Father of Goku and DragonBall Minus where its completely different.
Man Bardock is so smart in this new Broly movie, figuring out by himself the Frieza is gonna kill all Saiyans. Could you maybe say he's some kind of... brilliant scientist?
Honestly the original Bardock movie is so much better than the new one..they should have just kept all the original events and built on them instead of completely retconning everything.
@@ImperialLemon oh what original source material was retcon exactly if you don't mind me asking? Dragon Ball franchise has multiple cannons multiple continuities spanning multiple mediums. That's manga anime movies and video games. So would you please be specific with your statement.
I always thought the seeing the future thing was kind of weird and unnecessary. However, it's possible to reconcile this special with Dragon Ball Minus. So maybe when Bardock first starts getting visions, he's skeptical at first. Maybe his visions are wrong. After all, why would Frieza just choose to kill all the Saiyans for no reason? But then he hears that Frieza's been asking around about the Super Saiyan legend, and he realizes, "Oh crap. It's happening." Not wanting to panic Gine, he doesn't tell her about his visions, but he sends Goku off to be somewhere safe before attempting to stop Frieza. Just like in the special, he attempts to rally the Saiyans, but they don't believe him until it's too late, and Bardock dies in the battle and definitely does NOT get sent into the distant past, where he meets the ancestors of the Saiyans and becomes the first Super Saiyan.
They never explain why Bardock has a red headband in minus, then they said that Dodoria killed Bardock squad without him knowing , then they show Bardock fighting bat the blast while on planet Vegeta. The retcon doesn’t make sense in a lot of ways tho because Goku was an infant and not wearing his armor when he arrived on earth in DragonBall and in early Z they show him like that too
I wonder if you would ever do any of these: -Why GT can't happen -Why OG DB movies can't happen -Why "The Magic Begins" and "Fight Son Goku,Win Son Goku" can't happen -Why Garlic Jr saga can't happen -Why FighterZ can't happen -Why DB X One Piece X Toriko can't happen and finally... -Why Yo! Son Goku and his friends return can't happen
yo son goku and his friends return is mostly plausible and only a few things really suggest it can't be canon. it lines up cleanly with the established story (fitting in a comfortable window of time between events, being two years before bog), tarble is mentioned in later content (see dbs broly), and it even acts as a stepping stone to other things we see elsewhere (like vegeta's return to wearing battle armor). this is all in addition to the fact that toriyama scriptwrote for the movie and personally signed off on preferring the manga adaptation, which expands on it slightly and includes an author's note from toriyama
the main thing that acts against its favor is videl's mention of the world thinking that mr. satan beat buu, which contradicts the fact that they wished for no one to remember buu, but the manga adaptation opens with toriyama saying he doesn't remember anything about db, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say he just kind of... forgot. it'd also be pretty easy to explain away as mr. satan bragging about something that isn't even real, since the story is centered on him throwing a party for himself and inviting the people who did the work
lupine Technically, Vegeta never stopped his habit of wearing armor. He just wasn't allowed to wear armor in the tournament, and didn't ever get the chance to put any on afterwards until the defeat of Kid Buu.
Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return!! is canon. It was supervised by Akira Toriyama. And he applauded the special, citing it as one of the reasons he became interested in potentially making a new DB film, which would later become DBZ Battle of Gods. Furthermore, the character of Tarble is alluded to in Battle of Gods, Resurrection of F, DB Super and DBS Broly.
@@12227UserName you should’ve simply just mentioned it’s where Goku gets his radish farmer job from. So just like the final DBZ movies some variant is Canon.
Personally I like the original story about bardock rather than the broly bardock. It really made bardock a badass who was different than practically any other character in my opinion. To me the original story is still canon.
I guess Bardock: Father of Goku is to Dragon Ball Super: Broly what Genndy Tartakonvsy's Clone Wars is to Dave Filoni's Clone Wars. One is more entertaining, while the other fits into the main story better.
@@bradlee5874 In my opinion, Bardock: Father of Goku fits more seamlessly into the canon. In DBZ Bardock, baby Kakarot looks exactly the way he is supposed to. Why he looks like he's around four or five in DBS Broly and is wearing saiyan armor is beyond me.
@@JoeMavro1 lol I couldn't agree more. Honestly, I don't understand all the hype nowadays with Super making things canon and blah blah blah. Back in the day, us OG DBZ fans used our imagination to place these movies in chronological order lmao
@@bradlee5874 Same with the Star Wars Expanded Universe. From 1978 to 2012, nothing necessarily had to be canon unless we wanted it to be. Hell, plenty of Legends stories can fit into either timeline without much trouble.
@Kirbo You're not wrong, but you're also grasping at straws. We saw baby Kakarot being found by Grandpa Gohan at the end of Bardock. Nothing about that scene suggests that it's meant to be some kind of idealized scene meant to be viewed through Gohan's eyes. It's a third-person scene that's--in all likelihood--meant to be taken at face value.
There's a lot of parts from the special that are canon, like the battle between freezer and bardock, and the dead of bardock squad, in the Z manga, u can see bardock with his og desing and the bandana
Also, Goku was a naked baby on the manga, and wasn't sent to earth because his parents loved him, he was sent to earth to destroy life on it, because Goku was born weak this is one of the biggest things minus. retcons.
Yeah Toriyama just forgot a lot of his original details so really it doesn’t make sense. I would say that some of minus is canon like Gine being a person but if it tries to retcon things without making sense then it’s not a real retcon. At least the potara retcon made sense
@@PKAlt He actually forgot nothing. It's the fans that forgot. The only people who showed Goku as a baby being cared for by Grandpa Gohan was the anime production team, and Raditz remembered Goku as a baby but it doesn't mean that Goku was a baby went he was ejected. Actually we know Raditz had been off world for a while before Goku was sent to earth, so him not knowing why Goku was sent off or how he looked like a few years older makes sense. Goku being older was Toriyama unretconning something he wrote in the original DB- he was fourteen at the beginning and then became twelve. The only thing that cemented the special in canon before is a short shot of Bardock showing up in Frieza's one panel flashback as a reference to the special. But Bardock is shown to have tried to fight against Frieza in Broly too, so that can't be used as evidence that he "forgot". Really it's just that you like the special better, that's fine, but Toriyama wanted to do other things with Bardock, just as he wanted to do with Broly; both characters that he designed, but had no input on how they were written.
@@infernaldisdain8051 Goku's child age I always just thought was Goku not knowing how numbers worked. I read all of DB Manga and I remember him saying he was 14 at the start, then 12 later. But thats still all original DB. The one manga panel shows Bardock in upper space atmosphere surrounded by Freeza soldiers like the original special though, not like how he was killed in Broly. The things Toriyama did with Bardock didn't really make sense to his character though, especially when you take his iconic red headband into consideration. Instead of being his friend's headband blood soaked with his friend's blood, now its just red in canon because its iconic to be red. Thats an example of this "retcon" just being poor writing, imo. And yes, I liked the original special more, but the ideas behind Broly/Minus wasnt bad. Namely, showing the old Saiyan cities and planet, King Cold transfering the army over to his son, showing young Vegeta and Raditz, the manga panel of Dodoria killing Towa and crew, things like that. Everything regarding Gine/Bardock and making Goku's origin basically Superman's though, nah it wasnt interesting or well written retcon to me.
@@infernaldisdain8051 His design is completely different in the two seperate battles, and the bandana literally is explained and came from the special so your arguement makes no sense. The bandana is the key part which destroys this line of reasoning. Toriyama was involved with the movie so you can't even say it was just a deisgn choice. It was a key part of the special that had layers of backstory attached to it.
Disappointing we got the Bardock special retconned. It swapped a Greek tragedy style story about one man being cursed for his misdeeds with basically superman lite
Bringing back his parents would ruin the impact of their deaths. But yeh King Kai should be brought back and Goku should at least meet his parents in my opinion.
@@moon4236 yeah. Hell, apparently during production, it was originally meant to play out (probably the same as how it did with DBZ kai.), but it was changed because of the runtime.
@@michaeldunlap1032 I hope we get the uncut version of that someday. TBH they could have cut some of the fight with Broly, since... it kind of goes on for too long. I only saw the movie a few days ago for the first time and even with my eyes clouded by my first viewing it felt like it was unnecessarily long.
They should make a movie when Goku finally meets his father because it had been 30 years ago they maked the movie Bardock the father of goku and i think it's now time to let bardock meet his son
It was toriyama idea and he dont give a shit like we wont notice dbz bardock father of goku was decononized toriyama does not care he destroy the wiriters work on bardock father of goku if toriyama can do it himself WHY THE FUCK HE HIRED WRITERS TO WORK ON BARDOCK FATHER OF GOKU IN THE FIRST PLACE ? and DONT defend toriyama saying "is his work he can do whatever he want" toriyama INCLUDE bardock father of goku in dbz and replace it with dragon ball minus if destroy wrriters work was not disrespectful i dont know what is
Toriyama and Toyataro hinted that most of the movie still happens. Bardock’s crew and his damaged armor during his last stand showing that he still made his mad dash into space and talked to Frieza
Thankfully, Goku got his memories back in Granolah ark. Also, Bardock's hunch about Frieza is started in one of that ark's flashbacks, where one of the Heaters says something about the doom of the saiyans or something.
It will always annoy me how much people don’t know what the word “retcon,” means. Probably just as much as people thinking this special was ever canon to the series. This is what happens when you only watch the anime and don’t read the source material.
Well....I mean.... bardock the father of goku WAS cannon cause Akira put it in the manga, but it was retconed cause of db minus and dbs broly. Also in the frezia saga, frezia recognized goku as bardocks son, in the anime. It's all super confusing, so I just kinda go with it
But also just based on the ages that Goku is sent in Broly and when we see him in the Original Dragonball and DBZ as a child, wouldn't Minus not make sense with the timeline?
He was never seen in the original manga as an infant. The only time he was seen as an infant on Earth was in Bardock The Father of Goku and potentially some Toei-made scenes in the anime. He was also never claimed to have been known as an infant by anyone in the manga. The closest statement to that was Roshi recalling that Grandpa Gohan said he found a kid in the woods. Having Goku be a bit older before he came to Earth fits within the continuity made by Toriyama.
Nope, this is definitely why _Dragon Ball Minus_ can't happen. _Father of Goku_ came first, contradicted nothing that existed at the time, and even got a brief cameo reference by Toriyama himself in his original manga. It stood as presumed canon for over two decades, and after that length of time no one, not even Toriyama himself gets to just pretend it never happened... especially not when _Minus_ actually does contradict not only _Father of Goku,_ it contradicts the origin for why Goku was sent to earth in the first place from the original manga. _Super_ is allowed to make whatever retcons it wants, but they are still RETCONS.
One minor thing, Bardock’s squad were not elites they were low class warriors. Yes I know Bardock said they were stronger then most of Friezas elites but they were still curb stomped pretty easily by Dadoria
Goku is 4 years old in Dragon Ball super Broly when he sent to Earth and in the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z and GT Goku with a baby when they sent him to Earth And thanks to Dragon Ball super Broly this is why Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z and GT can't happen
I prefer the bardock movie over minus and i don't get why people think your wrong about the old broly movies not being apart of the anime because your still right
I’m split on the remaking of the Bardock story in Broly. Bardock honestly seems cooler. More composed, and we get to meet his wife. Though his reason for sending Goku away being “I just have a feeling” is really annoying.
Well this isn't canon because Raditz already said Goku was sent to Earth for the purpose of conquering it. Also, in Dragon Ball Goku is smaller than that nearly the entire series
Goku was a naked baby on the manga, and wasn't sent to earth because his parents loved him, he was sent to earth to destroy life on it, because Goku was born weak. In the OG manga we were told time again by Raditz and Vegeta that Goku was sent to earth with a mission to kill everyone and he was sent to a weak planet in order to conquer it. Vegeta tells us the moment a Saiyan baby is born their power level is read and if they are weak they are sent off. this is one of the biggest things minus.
You know I want to nitpick something I don't think most people have noticed. Bardocks vision in the original is wrong too. It shows Goku squatting off against 1st forme Frieza. Goku never meets 1st forme Frieza. He goes from fighting Ginyu to healing to entering the Frieza fight when he's in his final form. Even in RoF he doesn't get there till after Frieza goes to his final forme. Goku, even now has never seen Frieza in his lower forms. He has seen all of frosts forms. But none of Friezas lower forms. So bardocks final vision is just complete bullshit lmao
It is quite possible that they might adapt the broly movie for the return of super and with it they can fix the fact that they screwed up the Bardock movie
As Geekdom pointed out recently, BFOG can't happen because Bardock's vision of Goku facing off with Freiza's first form never happened. Goku was in a healing tank for Freiza's first three forms. Or multiverse theory's a b----.
So dragonball has turned in an add more saiyan's extravaganza plus make all saiyan's anti-heroes instead of the ruthless bloodthirsty killers they were originally just because the same characters Brogeta is so damned popular.
3:03 - 3:05 So the same thing happens but this time he was three. Could Grandpa Gohan even carry a three year old kid on top of this basket? Goku looks small but not too small. (To me at least.)
You'd think a race that could see the future would have seen the Oozaru has a big weakness in the tail, so five Saiyans shouldn't have been able to conquer them.
Gotta say, toddler Goku wearing Saiyan armor is basically the reason that DBS: Broly can't happen. Dragon Ball Z showed a younger naked Goku meeting grandpa Gohan, so unless Toddler Goku stripped and de-aged in the pod, DBS: Broly can't happen. Minor spoiler for DBS: Super Hero: Pan is shown not to be able to fly in that movie, even though a younger Pan was shown flying in DBS, and at the very end of DBZ a version of Pan that looks younger than the Pan from this movie was shown bragging about how quickly she was able to fly laps around the planet. So Pan's ability to fly makes it very unclear if Super Hero can happen.
still freeza said about bardock trying to fight with him... But the bardock badass evolution he got from selfish observer to mature leader who tried to fight for the future of his peoples.... that beautiful thing didn't.... because he was already mature in the new broly movie..... And that is almost as sad as Akira Toriyama Death tbh to me, because bardock was my favorite character.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
Yes, Bardock was wicked smart, because while he was a mediocre fighter, he was a BRILLIANT SCIENTIST!
Yeah, he invented that fake moon technique
My head canon is that just coming up with one good idea makes you a "brilliant scientist" on Planet Vegeta, because he invented the technique of making an Artificial Moon (I forgot what it's called) so the saiyans can transform into their Great Ape form because they ran into some radical weaponry on Rygol 7 and things were looking grim until Kakarot's genius father created an energy source that perfectly simulated full moon light.
(I had to watch the clip because I only saw the Japanese dub)
@@wingedbluj1674 that's what I'm saying
@@orzen_the_orzo933 the only time in the entirety of DB where weapons have a purpose.
Check granola saga there is an explanation as to how bardock knew that freezea was going to attack planet vegeta
Well, there's a drawing from Toyotaro that shows the rest of Bardock's squad about to get killed by Dodoria like in the old special, so there's that at least. XD
I'm pretty sure their still part of his crew just there was no time to actually show them all together.
@Manatee Steve i mean bardock is cool super manga
That makes it worse, because Bardock has his red headband during Minus and Broly, so he has his red headband for no reason. Its not Towa's white band blood soaked, its just a red headband because it looks cool and iconic. thats dumb.
@@PKAlt it can be explained by bar dock not having it yet and different armor
@@j.a.g816 no, he isn’t. Super sucks
I won’t lie I wish this movie was canon still I prefer this over minus
Same here
I do consider this canon, but in its own separate continuity. That being the original anime continuity which terminated in GT. Dragonball Minus, which I am personally fine with, is canonical to the new anime continuity and manga, just like Jaco manga is.
@@factfiend1000
That's not how canon works though. Anything penned by the original author is canon, first and foremost. While Akira Toriyama did write and draw DB Minus, as well as wrote the script for DBS Broly, he had no involvement with the Bardock special. The only thing he produced for that special were the character designs and names for Bardock and his squad.
@@12227UserName Anime has its own canon and this special was canon in the anime
@GHZ J2691
Idk. But that would be cool to see.
You know the broly version is even less plausible because Gohan found Goku as a naked baby
Mr. Poot it’s not filler it’s just an anime only story detail
@@theautisticbeaver4885 which is the definition of filler, anime only
@@HotFootBunny I guess all of dragon ball super is filler then
The Autistic beaver Technically not, because there's a manga.
Though the usage of filler as "anime-only" is also incorrect. Filler can be present in mangas as well, and is more properly used to describe events that do not forward the plot or characters in any meaningful way.
Goku arriving on Earth as a baby is more accurately non-canon(using the word "canon" as in "possible when referenced with the latest entry made/supervised by Toriyama in the series - which currently is the latest manga chapter," since a lot of DB fans are sensitive about that word). In the original manga, the furthest back anyone referred to Goku was Roshi recounting that Grandpa Gohan vaguely told him that he was raising a kid he found in the forest. That can mean he found Goku anywhere between the ages of 0 - 12.
@@christiancinnabars1402 the dragon ball super anime and the dragon ball super manga are completely different. That’s why I used super as an example.
So they retconned the best special in the series
Yup…..
Still annoys me, seriously Bardock: Father Of Goku was amazing!! One of my favorite things to come out of dragon ball. And it just gets replaced by something that ruins Bardock’s character and is generally just not as good.
I hope the retcon gets retconned…
Because god that special was amazing
They retconned the manga too
I’m surprised they don’t retcon the history of trunks next. Toriyama even liked the original special and wanted to make it canon ages ago, just never fit into the story to mention Bardock. Idk why he rewrote it, maybe because he want to make Goku more like Superman as he got older.
@@PKAlt History of Trunks isn’t canon.
@@fuckthisstupidasshandleshit Well Trunks the Story is, and History of Trunks just expanded on that. Its not like Bardock the Father of Goku and DragonBall Minus where its completely different.
Man These Special Episodes bring me back...
This was a great ova. It fit the original Z story perfectly. The new canon sucks.
How can it be an OVA if it aired on TV before being released for home media?
@@teddybeer6206 ovas are technically tv specials
@@sebastianc5155 Aren't OVAs direct-to-video?
The new canon is being largely ignored by me
never proved the original bardock non Canon it just proved they rewrote it , they fixed something that wasn't broken
THIS IS FOR YOU KAKEROT I'LL CHANGE THE FUTURE!!!
Man Bardock is so smart in this new Broly movie, figuring out by himself the Frieza is gonna kill all Saiyans. Could you maybe say he's some kind of... brilliant scientist?
Honestly the original Bardock movie is so much better than the new one..they should have just kept all the original events and built on them instead of completely retconning everything.
? There's a new one?
Whatnew one you mean one with broly
@@heavenly2k broly movie
Agreed
Eh
i love the fact that theres nothing wrong with the special
and the fact that it cant happen is because its not canon
Not canon to what super thank God.
But it is Canon to Z though.
That's all that matters.
@@neogamest123logic2 No, it really doesn't
@@belland_dog8235 know what really doesn't.
Which part of my argument is the issue with you.
@@neogamest123logic2 it was retconned with minus it’s not canon anymore at all
@@ImperialLemon oh what original source material was retcon exactly if you don't mind me asking?
Dragon Ball franchise has multiple cannons multiple continuities spanning multiple mediums.
That's manga anime movies and video games.
So would you please be specific with your statement.
I always thought the seeing the future thing was kind of weird and unnecessary. However, it's possible to reconcile this special with Dragon Ball Minus. So maybe when Bardock first starts getting visions, he's skeptical at first. Maybe his visions are wrong. After all, why would Frieza just choose to kill all the Saiyans for no reason? But then he hears that Frieza's been asking around about the Super Saiyan legend, and he realizes, "Oh crap. It's happening." Not wanting to panic Gine, he doesn't tell her about his visions, but he sends Goku off to be somewhere safe before attempting to stop Frieza. Just like in the special, he attempts to rally the Saiyans, but they don't believe him until it's too late, and Bardock dies in the battle and definitely does NOT get sent into the distant past, where he meets the ancestors of the Saiyans and becomes the first Super Saiyan.
They never explain why Bardock has a red headband in minus, then they said that Dodoria killed Bardock squad without him knowing , then they show Bardock fighting bat the blast while on planet Vegeta. The retcon doesn’t make sense in a lot of ways tho because Goku was an infant and not wearing his armor when he arrived on earth in DragonBall and in early Z they show him like that too
Seeing the future thing was not weird or unnecessary and no. It should have been that bardock doesn't send goku to earth.
He should go to the distance past and meet the ancestors of the sands and become the 1st super saiyan
I wonder if you would ever do any of these:
-Why GT can't happen
-Why OG DB movies can't happen
-Why "The Magic Begins" and "Fight Son Goku,Win Son Goku" can't happen
-Why Garlic Jr saga can't happen
-Why FighterZ can't happen
-Why DB X One Piece X Toriko can't happen
and finally...
-Why Yo! Son Goku and his friends return can't happen
yo son goku and his friends return is mostly plausible and only a few things really suggest it can't be canon. it lines up cleanly with the established story (fitting in a comfortable window of time between events, being two years before bog), tarble is mentioned in later content (see dbs broly), and it even acts as a stepping stone to other things we see elsewhere (like vegeta's return to wearing battle armor). this is all in addition to the fact that toriyama scriptwrote for the movie and personally signed off on preferring the manga adaptation, which expands on it slightly and includes an author's note from toriyama
the main thing that acts against its favor is videl's mention of the world thinking that mr. satan beat buu, which contradicts the fact that they wished for no one to remember buu, but the manga adaptation opens with toriyama saying he doesn't remember anything about db, so it wouldn't be a stretch to say he just kind of... forgot. it'd also be pretty easy to explain away as mr. satan bragging about something that isn't even real, since the story is centered on him throwing a party for himself and inviting the people who did the work
lupine Technically, Vegeta never stopped his habit of wearing armor. He just wasn't allowed to wear armor in the tournament, and didn't ever get the chance to put any on afterwards until the defeat of Kid Buu.
Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return!! is canon. It was supervised by Akira Toriyama. And he applauded the special, citing it as one of the reasons he became interested in potentially making a new DB film, which would later become DBZ Battle of Gods. Furthermore, the character of Tarble is alluded to in Battle of Gods, Resurrection of F, DB Super and DBS Broly.
@@12227UserName you should’ve simply just mentioned it’s where Goku gets his radish farmer job from. So just like the final DBZ movies some variant is Canon.
Personally I like the original story about bardock rather than the broly bardock. It really made bardock a badass who was different than practically any other character in my opinion. To me the original story is still canon.
I guess Bardock: Father of Goku is to Dragon Ball Super: Broly what Genndy Tartakonvsy's Clone Wars is to Dave Filoni's Clone Wars. One is more entertaining, while the other fits into the main story better.
Which one fit into the story better?
@@bradlee5874 In my opinion, Bardock: Father of Goku fits more seamlessly into the canon. In DBZ Bardock, baby Kakarot looks exactly the way he is supposed to. Why he looks like he's around four or five in DBS Broly and is wearing saiyan armor is beyond me.
@@JoeMavro1 lol I couldn't agree more. Honestly, I don't understand all the hype nowadays with Super making things canon and blah blah blah. Back in the day, us OG DBZ fans used our imagination to place these movies in chronological order lmao
@@bradlee5874 Same with the Star Wars Expanded Universe. From 1978 to 2012, nothing necessarily had to be canon unless we wanted it to be. Hell, plenty of Legends stories can fit into either timeline without much trouble.
@Kirbo You're not wrong, but you're also grasping at straws. We saw baby Kakarot being found by Grandpa Gohan at the end of Bardock. Nothing about that scene suggests that it's meant to be some kind of idealized scene meant to be viewed through Gohan's eyes. It's a third-person scene that's--in all likelihood--meant to be taken at face value.
There's a lot of parts from the special that are canon, like the battle between freezer and bardock, and the dead of bardock squad, in the Z manga, u can see bardock with his og desing and the bandana
Also, Goku was a naked baby on the manga, and wasn't sent to earth because his parents loved him, he was sent to earth to destroy life on it, because Goku was born weak this is one of the biggest things minus. retcons.
Yeah Toriyama just forgot a lot of his original details so really it doesn’t make sense. I would say that some of minus is canon like Gine being a person but if it tries to retcon things without making sense then it’s not a real retcon. At least the potara retcon made sense
@@PKAlt He actually forgot nothing. It's the fans that forgot. The only people who showed Goku as a baby being cared for by Grandpa Gohan was the anime production team, and Raditz remembered Goku as a baby but it doesn't mean that Goku was a baby went he was ejected. Actually we know Raditz had been off world for a while before Goku was sent to earth, so him not knowing why Goku was sent off or how he looked like a few years older makes sense.
Goku being older was Toriyama unretconning something he wrote in the original DB- he was fourteen at the beginning and then became twelve. The only thing that cemented the special in canon before is a short shot of Bardock showing up in Frieza's one panel flashback as a reference to the special. But Bardock is shown to have tried to fight against Frieza in Broly too, so that can't be used as evidence that he "forgot". Really it's just that you like the special better, that's fine, but Toriyama wanted to do other things with Bardock, just as he wanted to do with Broly; both characters that he designed, but had no input on how they were written.
@@infernaldisdain8051
Goku's child age I always just thought was Goku not knowing how numbers worked. I read all of DB Manga and I remember him saying he was 14 at the start, then 12 later. But thats still all original DB.
The one manga panel shows Bardock in upper space atmosphere surrounded by Freeza soldiers like the original special though, not like how he was killed in Broly.
The things Toriyama did with Bardock didn't really make sense to his character though, especially when you take his iconic red headband into consideration. Instead of being his friend's headband blood soaked with his friend's blood, now its just red in canon because its iconic to be red. Thats an example of this "retcon" just being poor writing, imo.
And yes, I liked the original special more, but the ideas behind Broly/Minus wasnt bad. Namely, showing the old Saiyan cities and planet, King Cold transfering the army over to his son, showing young Vegeta and Raditz, the manga panel of Dodoria killing Towa and crew, things like that. Everything regarding Gine/Bardock and making Goku's origin basically Superman's though, nah it wasnt interesting or well written retcon to me.
@@infernaldisdain8051 His design is completely different in the two seperate battles, and the bandana literally is explained and came from the special so your arguement makes no sense. The bandana is the key part which destroys this line of reasoning. Toriyama was involved with the movie so you can't even say it was just a deisgn choice. It was a key part of the special that had layers of backstory attached to it.
Disappointing we got the Bardock special retconned. It swapped a Greek tragedy style story about one man being cursed for his misdeeds with basically superman lite
my heart kinda hurts realizing the old movie totally gets undone and now we have this new super cannon. but both are still great
The super cannon is not great
This special was canon until it wasn’t. Minus was canon until it wasn’t. Broly prologue is now canon.
Still hoping Goku wishes back his parents and King Kai for once.....
i hope u know why this comment is stupid by now
Bringing back his parents would ruin the impact of their deaths. But yeh King Kai should be brought back and Goku should at least meet his parents in my opinion.
@@yukandouit537 no, shenron C A N T do that, and king Kai neither can
@@lobster6736 super Dragon ball
@@bloodfinitythey are not exactly "easy" to get, they should be able to revive them but is just real hard
Some people are actually arguing that DB - can't happen because Bardock's original design was the one shown in the manga.
Goku being older in the new Bardock backstory is why that movie can't happen. ;)
waiting until they find a way to say why the trunks special cant happen cuz of his hair color
as you can tell im joking
This original special was sooooooo good that forcing the new Minus origin into the Broly movie really brings that movie down for me.
I understand everything you said yet somehow non of it as well.
It's Canon for me these clips were shown in freeza saga and the minus Bardock didn't face freeza he only tried to stop his blast
DB super broly Bardock faced Frieza we just don't get to see the whole thing play out
@@moon4236 yeah. Hell, apparently during production, it was originally meant to play out (probably the same as how it did with DBZ kai.), but it was changed because of the runtime.
@@michaeldunlap1032 I hope we get the uncut version of that someday. TBH they could have cut some of the fight with Broly, since... it kind of goes on for too long. I only saw the movie a few days ago for the first time and even with my eyes clouded by my first viewing it felt like it was unnecessarily long.
It didn't go on for too long and you were wrong on everything
I can see the future.
Haha
You saying the remenber us line its funny because in the manga goku has finally remembered his parents
They should make a movie when Goku finally meets his father because it had been 30 years ago they maked the movie Bardock the father of goku and i think it's now time to let bardock meet his son
" Hes way older than the naked baby he was in the original story "
Bardock is still canon in my book. I bet the dudes at TOEI completely forgot about the plot of this movie again.
The classic Bardock is Canon to the orignal manga and Dragon Ball anime timeline.
It was toriyama idea and he dont give a shit like we wont notice dbz bardock father of goku was decononized toriyama does not care he destroy the wiriters work on bardock father of goku if toriyama can do it himself WHY THE FUCK HE HIRED WRITERS TO WORK ON BARDOCK FATHER OF GOKU IN THE FIRST PLACE ? and DONT defend toriyama saying "is his work he can do whatever he want" toriyama INCLUDE bardock father of goku in dbz and replace it with dragon ball minus if destroy wrriters work was not disrespectful i dont know what is
Toriyama and Toyataro hinted that most of the movie still happens. Bardock’s crew and his damaged armor during his last stand showing that he still made his mad dash into space and talked to Frieza
They did not hint that most of the movies still happened
Why am I getting notified that this video went up today lol
RUclips doesn’t like us 😢
Thankfully, Goku got his memories back in Granolah ark. Also, Bardock's hunch about Frieza is started in one of that ark's flashbacks, where one of the Heaters says something about the doom of the saiyans or something.
None of that should exist
Are you gonna cover the original Dragon Ball movies 1-4?
>No Solid State Scouter
Disappointment
It will always annoy me how much people don’t know what the word “retcon,” means. Probably just as much as people thinking this special was ever canon to the series. This is what happens when you only watch the anime and don’t read the source material.
Well....I mean.... bardock the father of goku WAS cannon cause Akira put it in the manga, but it was retconed cause of db minus and dbs broly. Also in the frezia saga, frezia recognized goku as bardocks son, in the anime. It's all super confusing, so I just kinda go with it
Bardock: The Minus of Goku
Hey, at least he remembered his parents back again!
It still doesn't make sense how in the Movie Broly Goku was like 4 and in Dragon Ball he was barley 8months old.
Broly or Dragon Ball CAN'T HAPPEN!
But also just based on the ages that Goku is sent in Broly and when we see him in the Original Dragonball and DBZ as a child, wouldn't Minus not make sense with the timeline?
He was never seen in the original manga as an infant. The only time he was seen as an infant on Earth was in Bardock The Father of Goku and potentially some Toei-made scenes in the anime. He was also never claimed to have been known as an infant by anyone in the manga. The closest statement to that was Roshi recalling that Grandpa Gohan said he found a kid in the woods.
Having Goku be a bit older before he came to Earth fits within the continuity made by Toriyama.
@@christiancinnabars1402 okay, but this is an anime . Which is cannon to DBZ as well as DBS
@@WilliamHasMelted
The anime are adaptations of Akira Toriyama original work, the Dragon Ball manga...
@@12227UserName But noone is talking about the manga
Anime and Manga are difrent canons
Only defense I have for it to happen is how Freeza mistook Goku for Bardock in Volume 10
Oh boy do I fuckin love retcons
Underrated channel
The reason he was cranky was because he missed his parents
OG bardock and Garlic Jr. Saga were the best non canon additions and they both get shafted hard.
when the guys at teoi animation write a better origins story than toriyama you know something is seriously wrong
I wasn't aware of the new Bardock movie.
Nope, this is definitely why _Dragon Ball Minus_ can't happen. _Father of Goku_ came first, contradicted nothing that existed at the time, and even got a brief cameo reference by Toriyama himself in his original manga. It stood as presumed canon for over two decades, and after that length of time no one, not even Toriyama himself gets to just pretend it never happened... especially not when _Minus_ actually does contradict not only _Father of Goku,_ it contradicts the origin for why Goku was sent to earth in the first place from the original manga.
_Super_ is allowed to make whatever retcons it wants, but they are still RETCONS.
was that Chris Sabot???
Great vid!
They shit on the best special dragon ball had offer.
now i want to be in the mirror universe where Minus can't happen ... as it should
Not sure
Lol, the DBZ movies are basically one giant Mandela Effect to the mainline show.
One minor thing, Bardock’s squad were not elites they were low class warriors. Yes I know Bardock said they were stronger then most of Friezas elites but they were still curb stomped pretty easily by Dadoria
Goku is 4 years old in Dragon Ball super Broly when he sent to Earth and in the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z and GT Goku with a baby when they sent him to Earth And thanks to Dragon Ball super Broly this is why Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z and GT can't happen
What do you mean cant happen? Its literally canon...
I prefer the bardock movie over minus and i don't get why people think your wrong about the old broly movies not being apart of the anime because your still right
He's not right about the old movies
I don’t care what anyone says, this is my canon version of Bardock
Old saiyan canon is so much cooler just brutalizing the previous inhabitants and takin their gear is so much more evil it's rad
I’m split on the remaking of the Bardock story in Broly.
Bardock honestly seems cooler. More composed, and we get to meet his wife.
Though his reason for sending Goku away being “I just have a feeling” is really annoying.
Eh, he makes a logical point and if he was wrong it could be fixed. I don't think it's too out of left field.
Well this isn't canon because Raditz already said Goku was sent to Earth for the purpose of conquering it. Also, in Dragon Ball Goku is smaller than that nearly the entire series
He isn't supposed to be cooler or more composed.
He didn't make a logical point and it is 2 out of left field
Goku was a naked baby on the manga, and wasn't sent to earth because his parents loved him, he was sent to earth to destroy life on it, because Goku was born weak. In the OG manga we were told time again by Raditz and Vegeta that Goku was sent to earth with a mission to kill everyone and he was sent to a weak planet in order to conquer it. Vegeta tells us the moment a Saiyan baby is born their power level is read and if they are weak they are sent off. this is one of the biggest things minus.
Goku should bring his mom and dad back to life with the dragon Balls
You know I want to nitpick something I don't think most people have noticed. Bardocks vision in the original is wrong too. It shows Goku squatting off against 1st forme Frieza. Goku never meets 1st forme Frieza. He goes from fighting Ginyu to healing to entering the Frieza fight when he's in his final form. Even in RoF he doesn't get there till after Frieza goes to his final forme. Goku, even now has never seen Frieza in his lower forms. He has seen all of frosts forms. But none of Friezas lower forms. So bardocks final vision is just complete bullshit lmao
The dbs manga unironicly acknowledges both as canon
Bardock movie is having quality
So everytime goku gets his head smashed he loses his memory
A war criminal...not so polite.I hope he will change someday.
It is quite possible that they might adapt the broly movie for the return of super and with it they can fix the fact that they screwed up the Bardock movie
Doesn't Kai start with Bardock rebelling against Frieza?
Lol Kai has filler
It does not have filler
Remember how Vegeta said that saiyan armor scaled up in size with you since he still has it on when he's in his Oozaru form? Me neither.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Bardock and his team were low class not elite.
the new bardock couldn't happen since goku was younger in dragon ball plus he didnt know he was a saiyan.
As Geekdom pointed out recently, BFOG can't happen because Bardock's vision of Goku facing off with Freiza's first form never happened. Goku was in a healing tank for Freiza's first three forms. Or multiverse theory's a b----.
Every time whenever I see the oozaru I say this
When the saiyans go oozaru mode it means business
Wait but goku is shown as a baby when he first lands on earth but in minus he is a kid?
0:59
12 years before Dragon Ball
Fun fact bardock its now canon
Cuz he showed in the manga now and somehow in the manga we see goku remember back about his perants
This is so sad :(
remember kids: people become willingly stupid when they don't understand a damn thing about what they're talking about. stay educated 👍
Cough* bardock and his low level sayains
I cAn SeE tHe FuTuReEeErEe
So dragonball has turned in an add more saiyan's extravaganza plus make all saiyan's anti-heroes instead of the ruthless bloodthirsty killers they were originally just because the same characters Brogeta is so damned popular.
At first I'd be like "but it is canon"
And then DBS broly made dragon ball minus overwrite this special as the official canon for bardock
I CAN SEE THE FUTURE!!
So if we just in a timeline like GT or Online/Xenoverse this and some more are cannon for these timelines, cool
I can see the future 🎶
I CAN SEE THE FUTURE
I disagree heavily😤 Got but Love for your channel though 👊🏾👊🏾🥰
Can you also do the Bardock Special?
3:03 - 3:05
So the same thing happens but this time he was three. Could Grandpa Gohan even carry a three year old kid on top of this basket? Goku looks small but not too small. (To me at least.)
I prefer bardock over minus. They made him less badass.
While I disagree, this is a very well made video.
The new canon messes up the timeline and ruins the whole thing that roshi told goku at the start of dragon ball z.
Next time: Why Battle of Gods can't happen?
@Mala Ghosh well only movies are mentioned so yeah
@Mala Ghosh it can't happen because Super retold it with minor changes
You'd think a race that could see the future would have seen the Oozaru has a big weakness in the tail, so five Saiyans shouldn't have been able to conquer them.
@Manatee Steve Well they did manage to miraculously repopulate, so I guess they did one thing right.
Because he is made canon with Gine in Dragon Ball Super Broly.
I Just hope next season on super frieza tell goku about bardook someday
Gotta say, toddler Goku wearing Saiyan armor is basically the reason that DBS: Broly can't happen. Dragon Ball Z showed a younger naked Goku meeting grandpa Gohan, so unless Toddler Goku stripped and de-aged in the pod, DBS: Broly can't happen.
Minor spoiler for DBS: Super Hero:
Pan is shown not to be able to fly in that movie, even though a younger Pan was shown flying in DBS, and at the very end of DBZ a version of Pan that looks younger than the Pan from this movie was shown bragging about how quickly she was able to fly laps around the planet. So Pan's ability to fly makes it very unclear if Super Hero can happen.
Yeah DBZ showed it...the anime. Filler. Not what happened. The original manga never shows when Goku arrived on earth.
still freeza said about bardock trying to fight with him... But the bardock badass evolution he got from selfish observer to mature leader who tried to fight for the future of his peoples.... that beautiful thing didn't.... because he was already mature in the new broly movie..... And that is almost as sad as Akira Toriyama Death tbh to me, because bardock was my favorite character.