Just watched this video as a brand new woodworker and am so grateful that you explain so much and don’t assume we already know. You are an awesome teacher. I will watch all your videos now. Also love how you showed the formula on different sheets and then showed it in practice.
I really appreciate how you include things that other videos don’t. Such as the math, alignment to the kerf, how you found certain measurements and how you marked them. Very very helpful for newer woodworkers like me. Awesome!
DUDE!!! OUTSTANDING video!!! Absolutely LOVE the close ups, where the blade meets the wood!!! CLEARLY making the video was MUCH harder than the actual project!!! VERY NICE!!!
I use french cleats all over my shop.I simply use a pair of nails as a pins to lock the item in place. Just drill a hole for the nail so that it is jut below the cleat above on each side of the holder in question, insert, and your done. No making keys, no complicated cuts to insert things, nada. It simple and very fast to move things.
Hey sorry... call me a newbie. But I want to understand your nail approach. It sounds very simple and probably the perfect solution. But my dumb mind doesn't understand your explanation. Is there a chance you could explain that again, except for a dummy like me? Thx man
@@raylewis1355 all he does is go 1 or 2 mill below the top cleat and drill a hole. You could use a nail or a dowel. As long as there is something there to stop it lifting it'll work :)
Great idea! When you were drilling the hole to do the cut out, I got this idea: why not use the right size (same height as the key) doweling rod, drill such a hole in the middle, and push the doweling rod through it to be your key. You can easily add a feature to make it come out easily. For extra secure fastening you could put such a doweling rod key on each side of a fixture.
This is similar to what I do. Except any size dowel can be placed through the shelf and under the receiving wall cleat. Then you only need one near the middle of and just the nature of triangles makes it pretty secure without need to do both ends. Can get weird if you have existing shelves but, drill hole insert dowel seems like alot less effort to me for something that looks no better or worse. (Can be annoying when a dowel swells though)
@@Segphalt you could use metal pins to avoid the swelling issue, they could then be flush with the front face, and you can use a magnet to remove them.
Your dowel idea gave me a dowel idea! Why not pre drill your wall cleats along the center. Then add a corresponding hole on each attachment to pop a plug into. If you wanted an upgrade from that, do some sheet metal behind the cleats, and make the dowels cylindrical magnets. May the French cleat be with you. These are not the dowels your looking for. I also saw somone laser cut French cleats that lock on. They were kind of a C shape. Seeing as I have an engraver, I should try that 1st. Whenever I redo my grandpa's peg board.
First I noticed the Portland location in the heading. That was point number one. Then you mention using Fusion360. Point number two. Then I see the Beavers shirt. That would be point number 3. Then you bring in the math and I realized there were too many points to be given here and I was only 1:30 seconds in! As a fellow Portland resident, who attended OSU, and who uses fusion 360, and loves how useful application of math can be (as an engineer by training), this may have been my favorite youtube video so far! Liked and subscribed. Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge.
I really like this, and it's such a straightforward solution I don't understand why it hasn't always been a part of the system! For a narrow cleat wall like the one shown you could just make the key the full length of the cleat, locking everything there into place. It's not like removing the key makes them all fall, so taking out the key that's holding multiple items doesn't really make it that much harder. Then, instead of cutting a huge channel to get to the key, you could just cut a semi-circle from the side of each fixture to be hanged. It makes it all more modular and rearrangeable as then you don't care what's next to what - any of them will allow you to remove the key.
I've been watching French cleat videos for some time now so that I could figure out exactly what I want to do in my shop, and this was by far the most informative video I've seen = I just subscribed. Love your formula and the key was a stroke of genius.
Somone in the comments beat this key with 2 nails places under the cleat so as not to nail into anything, but secure the stuff on the cleats. You can also still move them around. I've seen similar designs with laser cut cleats in sort of a C shape with a protrusion underneath the cleats.
Ive had the same problem with french cleats rhat the video creator has with cleats. My solution was to drill a small hole and slip a nail in the hole instead of your proposed dowel solution. does exactly the same thing. Tie the nail with a string for convenience when you pull it out. i also like the nail over dowel because you can either bend it to have a handle or it has the nail head you can easily grasp with gloves. Drilling a hole is also quicker and easier than setting up your table saw to make keys - for many at least. In summary key is a good solution but still slightly over engineered
It’s pretty common over here in Europe to have a short ‘key’ - about 2cm with a stop on it. You only need one per fitting, not top and bottom, and you just slide it out when you want to move the fitting. Nice ones are brass. Older techniques include locking pins like dowels, rotating blocks etc. So, I would say you’ve done a good job here, but you’re on a journey hundreds of years old and you’ll be doing this more simply in years to come. Love your video style by the way.
Thanks Christian and that's very interesting, I kind of like learning that I'm reviving very old techniques (they're usually the best anyway) so I really appreciate the information!
I really appreciate you showing the math on determining cleat thickness. I want to hang some heavy stuff so I'm planning to make them a tad bit taller, but now I know how to easily convert the measurements.
An improvement proposal on your solution: instead of having the top part of the support extend the whole width, why not cut a portion on the left and right, leaving just enough in the center to hold the key? That way you can easily push the key out from either side. The key doesn't have to be big, just enough to stop the support from being pushed up by accident.
You are in a good tradition: Issac Newton: If I saw farther it is because I stoot on the shoulders of giants. * * Of course he had a rival that he did not like and that was a short man, so .... But we all know who Newton is, and no one remembers the name of the rival so there was no need to undercut his own wisdom - in case this was wise and petty at the same time.
I use french cleats all the time, never "knocked" any off the wall, then again, nothing I hang on my walls are considered "light weight" either. Great video, cheers :)
I just wanted to let you know that I come back to this video, and it’s follow up with the dowels, every few months, almost like a favourite movie. I’m moving into a new space soon and am going to be using many of your tips when building it out
There's a lot of good information in this video. Yes, it's a simple key but how you got there is what put this tutorial above the rest. Good job! !! !!!
What a fantastic idea, you don't know how many times that I've knocked something off the cleats. Using everything you've shown here, I'll be changing all of my cleats and making a lot of "keys". Thank you so much for time and inspiration, keep u the great work
Watched this again today and thought I'd add my suggestion. If you don't mind small holes in your backing wall and the holder is going to be in place semi-permanently, use a small screw through the holder to fasten it in solidly. I've been using this method for some time now and, if I want to move something, simply unscrew it, reposition then screw it back in it's new home.
I wanted to throw my y same idea in but you beat me, but I was thinking just place a short screw just below the upper cleat and you won't damage the cleat or back wall.
I was thinking exactly the same thing... Why go through all the hassle of making keys and having to perfectly size everything, when a simple, cheap screw accomplishes the exact same thing. Talk about over-engineering!
@@Craftswright Or just make the key a dowel (round of square honey badger don't care) with the same height you need to lock, and drill a hole on the fixture. Just goes in and out, like wait for it...... A KEY! Genius!!! You can put a wee bit of leather in a loop screwed to pull if you really want to get fancy or make a square hole (more like a rectangular probably laying horizontal). They can all be the same length and shape. Fixture is not going up unless you pull the key out and removable from anywhere without any complicated cuts. Doesn't even need to take much real estate, can be a corner an open sided hole, dead center on top or bellow go crazy. Cheers for the project and best to your channel.
I have been meaning to make some French cleats for my area and you not only identified an issue I overlooked but provided an amazing solution as well. I would have liked to see the centering on the intercut a bit more imho
Brilliant! I’ve always hated pegboard and their horrible hangers and just discovered French cleat. But never saw your solution before and this makes it even better. Thanks!
I'm not gonna lie, I took a lot of good info away from this video but I have to say one of the smartest things I've ever seen anyone do with a french cleat wall is install the cleats onto a board before mounting the whole thing onto the wall. Wow. I'm sure it's been done before but it's the first time I've seen it and that is definitely the one thing that made me want to build one now. New sub, keep it up.
Great tip about aligning the saw using a flat tooth. I always struggle with finding the center when sawing in an angle and usually ended up just eyeballing it and then trimming off some wood on the straight end. Also like the dowel solution some others mentioned. Was thinking of something like that as well when I saw you drilling that big hole in the middle.
I will watch this 10 more times and, maybe, my junior high school D- math will soak in enough to understand you. Seriously, I want to do this, but math and I have never danced together. Great video.
Awesome idea man, can't believe I didn't think of it. I'm gonna use this in my tool trailer now. I'm a contractor and regularly have an hour drive each way to the jobsite so I end up with tools on the floor occasionally.... I think this might fix the problem
This was the video that made me decide to subscribe. My shop is pretty big, but storage and organization are always at a premium no matter your shop size.
Those look really neat and feel much more convenient now you can pull the object from the holder without it coming off the cleat. I wonder if making the key shorter but with a slight angle on the top so that if forms a wedge might work. Having a 2cm or 1" key on each side that wedges in place might work. Either way locking the cleats is not something I had seen before. Thanks for sharing.
I like the wedge idea for sure! My main goal with this was to simplify locking the cleats in place as much as I could. I’ll have to fiddle with the wedges, I’m sure they’d lock in the fixture even better but what I’m curious about is how easy they would be to repeatedly make and then once they’re wedged in how hard would they be to get back out? 🤔 great food for thought John!
@@Craftswright The wedged key could fit into a chamfer. This would also prevent the key from being over inserted as well as making it possible for the key to be inserted flush and still expose the thumbnail grip.
I’ve been considering a wall of French cleats, but I’m just now getting to the details, so to speak. I really had no idea how much thought needed to go into the design, cutting, etc. This was very helpful.
Thank you. This is best video I’ve watched on making and measuring French cleats. Your formula on finding the middle in order to cut the 45* is exactly what I was looking for. Your “key” method makes the cleat very secure. Thanks again my friend.
Fantastic video! I've been struggling to put off adding French cleats b/c I wasn't sure what sixmze to make everything. You made it so easy to understand. Two questions: 1. What type of 1/2 plywood would you recommend works best? 2. What do you think is the best thickness for French cleats? I was planning on 3/4, but after watching your video, maybe I should go with 1/2". Thoughts? Thanks!!
Hey Rob, Get on it brother! 😁 So I used 1/2 in this video because at the same time I was working on a cabinet project that I was filling with cleats and I wanted to keep the weight down. If I were to build a French clear wall, fixed to the wall, I would probably go 3/4”. Nothing wrong with 1/2”, but if you can go up a little in size and strength why not ya know? Happy building Rob!
Very good job I will watch this video a few times as at my age in my 60s I usually pick up what and how you have made it plus a better look at your guides and tips. Hreat job thanks
Craftswright - Ya can’t call it “the civil war” game anymore. The two universities said so and even claimed it was a mistake to have ever done so..Now, its been 6 months and they still can’t agree what we are supposed to call it instead. Regardless, how “insensitive” are you to use that “bad” term.
@@judmcfeters9054 The universities agreed not to use the term "Civil War" under pressure from a couple former and current student-athletes, but that does NOT mean fans can't continue calling it what it was called for the better part of 100 years. Rational people know this civil war is about a game between the north (OSU) and the south (UO) in the same state 40 miles apart ... and virtually nobody believes it has one single thing to do with the "War Between the States" or the "War of the Rebellion" or the "Great Rebellion" or the "War for Southern Independence".
I use a little screw through into the cleat. I also started doing mine at 30 degrees instead of 45. Holds as good and uses less wood for the angle. I do like your key idea though...
@@Craftswright I changed the angle on a bunch of rails and cleats by accident one time. Cussed a little, then tried them anyway..... They worked. I have been using a 30 degree angle since. The screws well it only takes one and trim screws are not that noticeable. I only use screws on something that I might bump and make fall Most of them I do not lock in place.
An interesting option. Note - if you have Fusion 360 (free) then you rarely need to work out formulae. The sketch tool will solve even the most difficult layouts for you.
@@Craftswright You can also make a slight taper on the key side of the L shaped Key. Insert one on each side to lock the shelf in all directions. This is especially good for larger shelves or boxes! It is a technique I have been using for many Years! I would like to send you a few designs to show you what I make!
@@GSCt1000 Bluetooth and blockchain technology, so you always know where your keys are, too. I hung my flux capacitor on my french cleat wall that way.
Clever solution and implementation ... I admire someone willing to take a few moments devise an elegant solution to a nagging issue rather than just learning to live with it.
Idk about you guys but when I cut at an angle on my table saw the kerf is still the same as at 90°. However, it can be hard to keep the stock running perfectly through the saw (feather boards help) which would result in “wider” kerfs because the stock moves, but that’s not the saw that’s user error.
@@Craftswright I think it might be a terminology confusion, quite possibly on my part. Is kerf measured perpendicular to the plane of the cut, or square with one of the faces of the piece? If it is the former, then no, it doesn't change unless the blade's width/tooth spread changes. In the latter case, the angle the blade makes with the reference face does affect the kerf width.
Fair. Counter point: how often does a fixture lift off with the item you grabbed from it only to fall? It probably isn’t a massive problem but I’m sure it’s a problem for some. Thank you for the alternative view point though!
Thank you for sharing this design and your other video on another design for locking French cleats. There was a ton of helpful stuff in this. The formula and math examples are super helpful for me to plan out some workshop improvements and client projects.
Great video. Explained simply, demonstrated well. I especially like your "Are you subscribed?" question nine minutes into the video. That's an appropriate time to ask someone, unlike the vast majority who tell the viewer to subscribe 15 seconds in.
Watching you drill that hole for your slot cut, I was thinking just push a dowl in the hole.😀 that would lock the cleat also without the big hole in your fixture.
Finally, someone made a reasonably sized Cleat, but 1.9375 will never be 2 inches except at Lowe's and Home Depot. One of the best Cleat systems I've seen. I saw a comment about using dowels as locks, they would be easier and nicer on the eye. Lock holes using a 9.4mm split tip drill bit and 0.375 (3/8") dowels keep it tight. Seriously, good job on sizing the cleats.
Great video! you never know what you are going to learn from a video. In addition to the wood working which I have been doing for about a year I learned something else. I am a math teacher who would like to start making math videos, the way you used multiple sheets of paper is a clever way to show the math steps, when you want to save the time of actually writing it on camera.
Another (and mathematically easier) way to cut wall and fixture cleat is to just off center your 45 degree cut on one piece making both wall cleat and fixture cleat at the same time. Then you only have to run one long piece through for each piece and they will all still match.
That's how I do it... from sheets the length I want on the wall (1" x 4" work well)... was looking at the math, all the fence adjustments, and thinking it was too much work for me.
I use lots of french cleats in my workshop. I lock mine in very simply. Using a wall cleat scrap, I hook it on the back of the fixture I am mounting, mark a line across the back of the fixture and mark the center. I drill a 1/8" hole from back to front, then countersink the front side of the hole. Finally, I install a #5, 3/4", flat head Phillips screw from the front. When gently screwed flush with the fixture, the tip of the screw pokes out just below the wall cleat and prevents the fixture from moving up, left or right. If you wish to relocate the fixture, just back out the screw 1/2". For box fixtures like shown in the video, you might have to drill an access hole for your Phillips bit through the front of the fixture.
Yep. Drill and countersink a hole large enough for the threads to slip through. Use a flat/oval/countersink screw for the key. Use a magenta to grab it, or use a forstner but to make a recess so you can get your finger under the screw head.
Got to admit this seemed overly involved/"engineered" and this is from someone that routinely likes to over do things. Bottom line, I really felt this was more of a video for the sake of video content rather than some fascinating solution.
Or any sort of shaft or rod to keep it from moving vertically. Can hook into a groove in the cleat board. Noice... Although, his version is not a whole lot more over-engineered than yours, it's just a stick FFS, ha ha! His is also very very neat on the eye. Hey, workshop-storage is a passion and craft in and of itself... of debatable utility, but there you go... so why not over-engineer it a little? ;)
Me: Never going to build french cleats (or probably anything else, for that matter) This channel: Watch this before building a french cleat wall! Me: Great idea!
🤗me too! It’s so fascinating to see what I COULD make if I bought $$$$$ of tools, property to put those tools and workspace and had another lifetime to learn the trade. Just in case... 😎. These videos suck me in for hours sometimes!
So? Imperial units are not inaccurate (today since their historic definition has changed). Imperial units are more prone to error when switching from fractional to decimal and adding feet and yards can mess things up. Other than that the inch is a very accurate unit since the very definition of the inch is 25.4mm.
Accuracy has nothing to do with the units you use! If your rule is good, you can measure using whatever units you like. If you never passed basic math with fractions and decimals, that is a totally different issue!
@@JimmyHandmix the way in the video shares a cut in the middle. Meaning you get 2 pieces of cleat for 3 cuts. What you're suggesting is 4 cuts for two pieces of cleat.
@@bronsontaylor7333 4 cuts - 4 pieces. Or 2 cuts - 2 pieces depends on when you stop and how many you need. Of course you would need one more cut to get them to the desired length if the length you need is not the length of the board.
I guess I solve this problem a couple decades ago when I was doing a lot of French cleats. And solving that problem of cutting it perfectly in the center so you get exact matching split cuts was a luxury of time my job would not allow me to figure out so I would usually cut one side just a tiny bit over and then trim them both when I chamfered the edges.
Over the years I have only used French cleats when hanging cabinets or heavy frames for this exact reason. This was genius. I wish I had thought of it. Oh and thanks for the math. No guess work needed.
Great vid! Further simplification: You should just make a keyhole. At 12:03 you could just make a "window" through to the back of the cleat (a hole with two sides rather than just one side which you have here). Then you stick a dowel-shaped key through the hole, and friction would keep it in place. You could even make a pull-hole or a stopper on the end of the key if you wanted.
Building a camper and will be using french cleats for hanging items inside. And now, with the idea for the locking device, I can drive down bumpy roads with no problem.... I hope....
Imperial measurements are by definition as accurate as metric because the metric system is used to define them. An inch is literally defined as 25.4 mm, while the metre has a physics definition based on the wavelength of a specific color of light. Incidentally, based on the channel being in Portland, the US customary system is being used here rather than the Imperial system. Imperial measurements are used in the UK. Imperial/US Customary inches are the same, but the volume measurements, such as the gallon, are dramatically different (This is why exactly the same car tested the same way will have a lower mpg figure in the US than in the UK). It's the confusion over which gallon people mean when they say gallon and complete dimensional consistency (Energy in Joules is force in Newtons times distance in metres - no correction factors needed) that make the metric system easier.
I solved the same problem a little bit differently -- I used the same height cleat for both the tool holder and the wall. Then I make a key as a spacer (with a couple of pieces of paper for slip fit) to make two guage blocks to set the spacing at each end while laying up . Then I did not have to have two different sized cleats to maintain the spacing. Did I miss something that made it better to to make the tool-backing cleat shorter in size (other than to provide clearance?
A SAFETY ISSUE... At 5:28, after you have made your test cut, it appears that the saw blade is still coasting to a stop while you are using the steel ruler to measure and while you are moving the test piece around on top of your saw table. That is a recipe for disaster. Stay safe.
You had the right amount of information and explained very well. I had seen the key method before, but you adding the chamfer and the cut for the finger nail to pull the key was very useful. I liked the idea of adding the cut out, but I would make it less long as it compromises the strength of the hold. So I would cut a shorter cut out on both sides. I would put a stopper in the center on the backside to prevent the key moving too far in. With short keys and the cut out on both sides you could have two shelves right next to each other and move the keys in and out without having to move the shelves that much. If done right, you would have a very good locking mechanism and still have good strength.
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French Cleat lock idea is straight forward, brilliant and inexpensive. Thanks so much for sharing. Still learning stuff at 60. 👍👍👍
Still learning at 73 yrs 😂old
Just watched this video as a brand new woodworker and am so grateful that you explain so much and don’t assume we already know. You are an awesome teacher. I will watch all your videos now. Also love how you showed the formula on different sheets and then showed it in practice.
I really appreciate how you include things that other videos don’t. Such as the math, alignment to the kerf, how you found certain measurements and how you marked them. Very very helpful for newer woodworkers like me. Awesome!
Just do magnets and a thin layer of metal on the wall cleats.
For a super cool look swap to copper and force patina that stuff!
DUDE!!! OUTSTANDING video!!! Absolutely LOVE the close ups, where the blade meets the wood!!! CLEARLY making the video was MUCH harder than the actual project!!! VERY NICE!!!
Please calm down, David.
I use french cleats all over my shop.I simply use a pair of nails as a pins to lock the item in place. Just drill a hole for the nail so that it is jut below the cleat above on each side of the holder in question, insert, and your done. No making keys, no complicated cuts to insert things, nada. It simple and very fast to move things.
Agree! The solution in this video works, but is pretty overcomplicated.
Ive used these to hang fixtures around my apartment for nearly 20 years, and Ive never had an issue with things getting knocked off the wall...
Talk about over engineered. Fine if you have the time, resources and equipment. I like the simplicity of your solution.
Hey sorry... call me a newbie. But I want to understand your nail approach. It sounds very simple and probably the perfect solution. But my dumb mind doesn't understand your explanation. Is there a chance you could explain that again, except for a dummy like me? Thx man
@@raylewis1355 all he does is go 1 or 2 mill below the top cleat and drill a hole. You could use a nail or a dowel. As long as there is something there to stop it lifting it'll work :)
Great idea! When you were drilling the hole to do the cut out, I got this idea: why not use the right size (same height as the key) doweling rod, drill such a hole in the middle, and push the doweling rod through it to be your key. You can easily add a feature to make it come out easily. For extra secure fastening you could put such a doweling rod key on each side of a fixture.
This is similar to what I do. Except any size dowel can be placed through the shelf and under the receiving wall cleat. Then you only need one near the middle of and just the nature of triangles makes it pretty secure without need to do both ends.
Can get weird if you have existing shelves but, drill hole insert dowel seems like alot less effort to me for something that looks no better or worse. (Can be annoying when a dowel swells though)
@@Segphalt you could use metal pins to avoid the swelling issue, they could then be flush with the front face, and you can use a magnet to remove them.
Your dowel idea gave me a dowel idea!
Why not pre drill your wall cleats along the center. Then add a corresponding hole on each attachment to pop a plug into. If you wanted an upgrade from that, do some sheet metal behind the cleats, and make the dowels cylindrical magnets.
May the French cleat be with you.
These are not the dowels your looking for.
I also saw somone laser cut French cleats that lock on. They were kind of a C shape. Seeing as I have an engraver, I should try that 1st. Whenever I redo my grandpa's peg board.
I built a French cleat tool wall system. I love this locking modification you figured out. Brilliant simplicity. Thank you for sharing.
Just to add my appreciation for your idea & work!
Geezz, your magic formula definitely points out why the rest of the world uses the metric system :o)
Top!
I was about to make the same comment!
Are you talking about the fixture cleat being a little less wide? That’s so there’s room for the locking key 😊
I think all these comments missed the point. I think he meant the math would be easier if you used the metric system. Which is true
I had to do the math myself because it made no sense to me. Metric all the way!
First I noticed the Portland location in the heading. That was point number one. Then you mention using Fusion360. Point number two. Then I see the Beavers shirt. That would be point number 3. Then you bring in the math and I realized there were too many points to be given here and I was only 1:30 seconds in! As a fellow Portland resident, who attended OSU, and who uses fusion 360, and loves how useful application of math can be (as an engineer by training), this may have been my favorite youtube video so far! Liked and subscribed. Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge.
I really like this, and it's such a straightforward solution I don't understand why it hasn't always been a part of the system!
For a narrow cleat wall like the one shown you could just make the key the full length of the cleat, locking everything there into place. It's not like removing the key makes them all fall, so taking out the key that's holding multiple items doesn't really make it that much harder. Then, instead of cutting a huge channel to get to the key, you could just cut a semi-circle from the side of each fixture to be hanged. It makes it all more modular and rearrangeable as then you don't care what's next to what - any of them will allow you to remove the key.
I've been watching French cleat videos for some time now so that I could figure out exactly what I want to do in my shop, and this was by far the most informative video I've seen = I just subscribed. Love your formula and the key was a stroke of genius.
Somone in the comments beat this key with 2 nails places under the cleat so as not to nail into anything, but secure the stuff on the cleats. You can also still move them around.
I've seen similar designs with laser cut cleats in sort of a C shape with a protrusion underneath the cleats.
Great idea! Alternative: My suggestion ist to drill a hole at correct posiotion and insert a dowel from frotn side as a blocker.
Interesting idea for sure 🤔
Exactly what I was going to say. Or a tape hinged square piece that swings into a small dado.
@@altcompbinaries I like that.
Ive had the same problem with french cleats rhat the video creator has with cleats. My solution was to drill a small hole and slip a nail in the hole instead of your proposed dowel solution. does exactly the same thing. Tie the nail with a string for convenience when you pull it out. i also like the nail over dowel because you can either bend it to have a handle or it has the nail head you can easily grasp with gloves. Drilling a hole is also quicker and easier than setting up your table saw to make keys - for many at least. In summary key is a good solution but still slightly over engineered
@@ceasars1997 nails aren't pretty though.
It’s pretty common over here in Europe to have a short ‘key’ - about 2cm with a stop on it. You only need one per fitting, not top and bottom, and you just slide it out when you want to move the fitting. Nice ones are brass.
Older techniques include locking pins like dowels, rotating blocks etc.
So, I would say you’ve done a good job here, but you’re on a journey hundreds of years old and you’ll be doing this more simply in years to come.
Love your video style by the way.
Oh. One more method is a little wire hook you push through a hole to stop the upward movement.
Thanks Christian and that's very interesting, I kind of like learning that I'm reviving very old techniques (they're usually the best anyway) so I really appreciate the information!
I really appreciate you showing the math on determining cleat thickness. I want to hang some heavy stuff so I'm planning to make them a tad bit taller, but now I know how to easily convert the measurements.
Camera works and explanations are top notch! Thank you!
An improvement proposal on your solution: instead of having the top part of the support extend the whole width, why not cut a portion on the left and right, leaving just enough in the center to hold the key? That way you can easily push the key out from either side. The key doesn't have to be big, just enough to stop the support from being pushed up by accident.
That’s actually brilliant!
Built on top of your solution,@@Craftswright. You build one step, I build the next, and so on 😉
Haha we’d be unstoppable!!!!
You are in a good tradition: Issac Newton: If I saw farther it is because I stoot on the shoulders of giants. *
* Of course he had a rival that he did not like and that was a short man, so .... But we all know who Newton is, and no one remembers the name of the rival so there was no need to undercut his own wisdom - in case this was wise and petty at the same time.
It may also get pushed in to far, and then you can’t reach it from any side.
That dramatic reenactment was amazing. I felt it. You know? Like, really felt it.
It's been 2 weeks, can you still feel it?
It's all I've felt. It's all I've ever felt
I think... Ya, that's it right? I think I feel it too.
Pfft.
Ohh... now I can smell it also...
I use french cleats all the time, never "knocked" any off the wall, then again, nothing I hang on my walls are considered "light weight" either. Great video, cheers :)
I just wanted to let you know that I come back to this video, and it’s follow up with the dowels, every few months, almost like a favourite movie.
I’m moving into a new space soon and am going to be using many of your tips when building it out
There's a lot of good information in this video. Yes, it's a simple key but how you got there is what put this tutorial above the rest. Good job! !! !!!
Awesome Sebastopolmark, thanks for the comment too 😁
What a fantastic idea, you don't know how many times that I've knocked something off the cleats. Using everything you've shown here, I'll be changing all of my cleats and making a lot of "keys". Thank you so much for time and inspiration, keep u the great work
Watched this again today and thought I'd add my suggestion. If you don't mind small holes in your backing wall and the holder is going to be in place semi-permanently, use a small screw through the holder to fasten it in solidly. I've been using this method for some time now and, if I want to move something, simply unscrew it, reposition then screw it back in it's new home.
I wanted to throw my y same idea in but you beat me, but I was thinking just place a short screw just below the upper cleat and you won't damage the cleat or back wall.
I was thinking exactly the same thing... Why go through all the hassle of making keys and having to perfectly size everything, when a simple, cheap screw accomplishes the exact same thing. Talk about over-engineering!
There is no overengineering in creating practicality….thank you so much for sharing this! I love the humor you put in, all the best!
A wee bit of cord attached to the key and to the French cleat, means it will always stay with the holder
THAT is brilliant!
@@Craftswright Or just make the key a dowel (round of square honey badger don't care) with the same height you need to lock, and drill a hole on the fixture. Just goes in and out, like wait for it...... A KEY! Genius!!!
You can put a wee bit of leather in a loop screwed to pull if you really want to get fancy or make a square hole (more like a rectangular probably laying horizontal). They can all be the same length and shape. Fixture is not going up unless you pull the key out and removable from anywhere without any complicated cuts. Doesn't even need to take much real estate, can be a corner an open sided hole, dead center on top or bellow go crazy. Cheers for the project and best to your channel.
Think bench dog, with a loop.
@@mcvirtual2574 Exactly what I was just thinking. In my head I saw it as a push button lock, pull tag to open.
My thought exactly
I have been meaning to make some French cleats for my area and you not only identified an issue I overlooked but provided an amazing solution as well. I would have liked to see the centering on the intercut a bit more imho
Brilliant! I’ve always hated pegboard and their horrible hangers and just discovered French cleat. But never saw your solution before and this makes it even better. Thanks!
As a total noob to woodworking, I appreciate the extra effort with everything from demonstrating the math to how and why you use the push sticks. 👍
I'm not gonna lie, I took a lot of good info away from this video but I have to say one of the smartest things I've ever seen anyone do with a french cleat wall is install the cleats onto a board before mounting the whole thing onto the wall. Wow. I'm sure it's been done before but it's the first time I've seen it and that is definitely the one thing that made me want to build one now. New sub, keep it up.
Great tip about aligning the saw using a flat tooth. I always struggle with finding the center when sawing in an angle and usually ended up just eyeballing it and then trimming off some wood on the straight end.
Also like the dowel solution some others mentioned. Was thinking of something like that as well when I saw you drilling that big hole in the middle.
I still struggle with it haha it’s tricky for sure!
A little different from other French cleat videos. Love the presentation. Thanks
Haha...love how you creatively & subtly slipped in the subscription reminder. 👍
Lol this just hit my feed I figured someone commented on the subliminal message I like it I'll sub
I will watch this 10 more times and, maybe, my junior high school D- math will soak in enough to understand you. Seriously, I want to do this, but math and I have never danced together. Great video.
Awesome idea man, can't believe I didn't think of it. I'm gonna use this in my tool trailer now. I'm a contractor and regularly have an hour drive each way to the jobsite so I end up with tools on the floor occasionally.... I think this might fix the problem
absolutely brilliant. simplest solution I have seen. yet completely effective.
Math-a-magic, French, cleats, and keys. Oh myyyyyy.
Glad to see you all safe and sound, now that the state isn't on the BBQ.
Bless Oregon and it’s incessant rain 🙌 😂
@@Craftswright can you send that rain down to Cali to put out our fires? We apparently don't take our forrest floors enough 😏
This was the video that made me decide to subscribe. My shop is pretty big, but storage and organization are always at a premium no matter your shop size.
Those look really neat and feel much more convenient now you can pull the object from the holder without it coming off the cleat. I wonder if making the key shorter but with a slight angle on the top so that if forms a wedge might work. Having a 2cm or 1" key on each side that wedges in place might work. Either way locking the cleats is not something I had seen before. Thanks for sharing.
I like the wedge idea for sure! My main goal with this was to simplify locking the cleats in place as much as I could. I’ll have to fiddle with the wedges, I’m sure they’d lock in the fixture even better but what I’m curious about is how easy they would be to repeatedly make and then once they’re wedged in how hard would they be to get back out? 🤔 great food for thought John!
@@Craftswright The wedged key could fit into a chamfer. This would also prevent the key from being over inserted as well as making it possible for the key to be inserted flush and still expose the thumbnail grip.
I’ve been considering a wall of French cleats, but I’m just now getting to the details, so to speak. I really had no idea how much thought needed to go into the design, cutting, etc. This was very helpful.
After watching some of the over-engineered ones, this is exactly what I was thinking of doing. Glad to see it works... thanks!
Smart cookie drbortz! Cheers friend :)
I have french cleats everywhere. Have never lost one yet. Thanks for the video.
Maaaan, the timing on this is perfect! I'm starting a French cleat wall tomorrow. Thanks!
Serendipitous!!! Glad I posted this today then 😉 interested to hear how your build goes!
Thank you. This is best video I’ve watched on making and measuring French cleats. Your formula on finding the middle in order to cut the 45* is exactly what I was looking for. Your “key” method makes the cleat very secure. Thanks again my friend.
Fantastic video! I've been struggling to put off adding French cleats b/c I wasn't sure what sixmze to make everything. You made it so easy to understand. Two questions:
1. What type of 1/2 plywood would you recommend works best?
2. What do you think is the best thickness for French cleats? I was planning on 3/4, but after watching your video, maybe I should go with 1/2". Thoughts?
Thanks!!
Hey Rob,
Get on it brother! 😁
So I used 1/2 in this video because at the same time I was working on a cabinet project that I was filling with cleats and I wanted to keep the weight down.
If I were to build a French clear wall, fixed to the wall, I would probably go 3/4”. Nothing wrong with 1/2”, but if you can go up a little in size and strength why not ya know?
Happy building Rob!
Very good job I will watch this video a few times as at my age in my 60s I usually pick up what and how you have made it plus a better look at your guides and tips. Hreat job thanks
Came for the info on cleat system and stayed because it was a great video. Bonus is the OSU tee. Go Beavs, from a grad. Keep up the great work.
That Civil War game was a pleasant surprise eh? Go Beavs!!
@@Craftswright Yes it was! GO Beavs, I too noticed your shirt.
Craftswright - Ya can’t call it “the civil war” game anymore. The two universities said so and even claimed it was a mistake to have ever done so..Now, its been 6 months and they still can’t agree what we are supposed to call it instead. Regardless, how “insensitive” are you to use that “bad” term.
@@judmcfeters9054 The universities agreed not to use the term "Civil War" under pressure from a couple former and current student-athletes, but that does NOT mean fans can't continue calling it what it was called for the better part of 100 years. Rational people know this civil war is about a game between the north (OSU) and the south (UO) in the same state 40 miles apart ... and virtually nobody believes it has one single thing to do with the "War Between the States" or the "War of the Rebellion" or the "Great Rebellion" or the "War for Southern Independence".
So simple. So awesome. Best lock for a French cleat I've seen yet
I use a little screw through into the cleat. I also started doing mine at 30 degrees instead of 45. Holds as good and uses less wood for the angle.
I do like your key idea though...
Never thought to change the angle, that's interesting. Screws work great for sure, if you want to see the screws ;)
@@Craftswright I changed the angle on a bunch of rails and cleats by accident one time. Cussed a little, then tried them anyway..... They worked. I have been using a 30 degree angle since. The screws well it only takes one and trim screws are not that noticeable. I only use screws on something that I might bump and make fall Most of them I do not lock in place.
Trim screws aren’t a bad option now that you mention it!
Another great video. And one that reminds me why the metric system is so good.
Haha yes, and I'm slowly starting to integrate it into my workflow/videos/plans
An interesting option. Note - if you have Fusion 360 (free) then you rarely need to work out formulae. The sketch tool will solve even the most difficult layouts for you.
I’m an avid Fusion user, but I wanted to include the math for those without 😊
Okay, was about to put some pegboard up but didn't think it would be strong enough. Great no nonsense videos. I'm an instant fan.
Instead of a full length key...as you said make it shorter...but make it in the shape of an "L" that way you can always grab hold of it!!!
Not a bad idea! Would be easy to do with an off-cut and some CA glue
@@Craftswright You can also make a slight taper on the key side of the L shaped Key. Insert one on each side to lock the shelf in all directions. This is especially good for larger shelves or boxes! It is a technique I have been using for many Years! I would like to send you a few designs to show you what I make!
If your key slot is ½" deep you could just bandsaw the L-shaped keys out of ½" ply.
And even add bluetooth to the keys so you can lock it in place. Extra security, with a app I
In the phone to unlock the key.
@@GSCt1000 Bluetooth and blockchain technology, so you always know where your keys are, too. I hung my flux capacitor on my french cleat wall that way.
Now that is very helpful , for our quick and ready ammo shelves and hatchets ... Secured and Safety ... OORAH!!
Wow! Very nice! I’m definitely going to use this technique on my French cleat wall. Thanks for sharing!
As someone from a country that uses metric… that maths is so lost on me… so many fractions.
Clever solution and implementation ... I admire someone willing to take a few moments devise an elegant solution to a nagging issue rather than just learning to live with it.
Genius, I see you are located in Portland, stay safe my friend.
Wow thanks a lot - just did a french cleat in my basement last week, and started wondering about how to keep things in place!
the kerf of the blade grows when cutting on a 45
How? The blade doesn't swell just because it is on an angle.
@@mdsigners1901 if the blade tilted 89°, you still think I’d be 1/8”?
@@mdsigners1901 Cosine/sine error. The horizontal width of a rotated rectangle is longer than its shorter edge.
Idk about you guys but when I cut at an angle on my table saw the kerf is still the same as at 90°. However, it can be hard to keep the stock running perfectly through the saw (feather boards help) which would result in “wider” kerfs because the stock moves, but that’s not the saw that’s user error.
@@Craftswright I think it might be a terminology confusion, quite possibly on my part. Is kerf measured perpendicular to the plane of the cut, or square with one of the faces of the piece? If it is the former, then no, it doesn't change unless the blade's width/tooth spread changes. In the latter case, the angle the blade makes with the reference face does affect the kerf width.
That locking system is Awesome.l will definitely be doing it in my shop. As I have had them fall off. Thanks
Honestly how often do you knock your French cleates off of you wall?
Fair. Counter point: how often does a fixture lift off with the item you grabbed from it only to fall?
It probably isn’t a massive problem but I’m sure it’s a problem for some. Thank you for the alternative view point though!
Far too often. Once is more than enough.
My family are all klutzes. If it can come off a wall, it will.
Thank you for sharing this design and your other video on another design for locking French cleats. There was a ton of helpful stuff in this. The formula and math examples are super helpful for me to plan out some workshop improvements and client projects.
Please make a video where you actually cut the mustard, it would have been spectacular!
Oh god, I was afraid he was actually going to do it.
Great video. Explained simply, demonstrated well.
I especially like your "Are you subscribed?" question nine minutes into the video. That's an appropriate time to ask someone, unlike the vast majority who tell the viewer to subscribe 15 seconds in.
Watching you drill that hole for your slot cut, I was thinking just push a dowl in the hole.😀 that would lock the cleat also without the big hole in your fixture.
Haha sometimes it’s right there in front of you if you only take the time to look 😂
haha, exactly my thoughts
Finally, someone made a reasonably sized Cleat, but 1.9375 will never be 2 inches except at Lowe's and Home Depot. One of the best Cleat systems I've seen. I saw a comment about using dowels as locks, they would be easier and nicer on the eye. Lock holes using a 9.4mm split tip drill bit and 0.375 (3/8") dowels keep it tight. Seriously, good job on sizing the cleats.
Okay now I can finally build a French cleat wall
Get it Jake!
Well done! I'm about to start construction of a new shop and French cleats are now part of the design.
You’re a funny and clever dude! Thank you for your post 😎
A lot of good points 🤓
Great video! you never know what you are going to learn from a video. In addition to the wood working which I have been doing for about a year I learned something else. I am a math teacher who would like to start making math videos, the way you used multiple sheets of paper is a clever way to show the math steps, when you want to save the time of actually writing it on camera.
Another (and mathematically easier) way to cut wall and fixture cleat is to just off center your 45 degree cut on one piece making both wall cleat and fixture cleat at the same time. Then you only have to run one long piece through for each piece and they will all still match.
That's how I do it... from sheets the length I want on the wall (1" x 4" work well)... was looking at the math, all the fence adjustments, and thinking it was too much work for me.
Very clever. Cheap, easy, and fast - all the ingredients for success. Thanks for sharing.
When your blade is at 45 the kerf is w*sin(45). W being blade width.
w/sin(45)
For viewers who thought there was not enough math in this video 😉
I use lots of french cleats in my workshop. I lock mine in very simply. Using a wall cleat scrap, I hook it on the back of the fixture I am mounting, mark a line across the back of the fixture and mark the center. I drill a 1/8" hole from back to front, then countersink the front side of the hole. Finally, I install a #5, 3/4", flat head Phillips screw from the front. When gently screwed flush with the fixture, the tip of the screw pokes out just below the wall cleat and prevents the fixture from moving up, left or right. If you wish to relocate the fixture, just back out the screw 1/2". For box fixtures like shown in the video, you might have to drill an access hole for your Phillips bit through the front of the fixture.
I’m an Aussie sitting here thinking “you’re saying way too many numbers”
same here!! greetings from Europe
I’m with you in SW Florida USA
Nice improvement on the standard French cleat. I like it. I may have to get on this.
Just a single screw through the material would do the job.
Touché
Yep. Drill and countersink a hole large enough for the threads to slip through. Use a flat/oval/countersink screw for the key. Use a magenta to grab it, or use a forstner but to make a recess so you can get your finger under the screw head.
Got to admit this seemed overly involved/"engineered" and this is from someone that routinely likes to over do things.
Bottom line, I really felt this was more of a video for the sake of video content rather than some fascinating solution.
Or any sort of shaft or rod to keep it from moving vertically. Can hook into a groove in the cleat board. Noice...
Although, his version is not a whole lot more over-engineered than yours, it's just a stick FFS, ha ha! His is also very very neat on the eye.
Hey, workshop-storage is a passion and craft in and of itself... of debatable utility, but there you go... so why not over-engineer it a little? ;)
That was what I was thinking also and do.
I am new to the French cleat and this was a very informative video. Ya did a great job explaining and thank you...keep up the great work!!
Me: Never going to build french cleats (or probably anything else, for that matter)
This channel: Watch this before building a french cleat wall!
Me: Great idea!
Haha yes!
🤗me too! It’s so fascinating to see what I COULD make if I bought $$$$$ of tools, property to put those tools and workspace and had another lifetime to learn the trade. Just in case... 😎. These videos suck me in for hours sometimes!
It was the “Dramatic Reenactment” for me 🤣🤣🤣 Subscribed! Thanks for such a informative and easy to follow video. 👌🏾
I have never seen someone over-complicate such a simple thing before.
Do I get a prize for over-complication? I want a prize dammit! lol
Use a single screw.
Genius design if you need to occasionally adjust your shelves. Otherwise, like Jay Mag, a screw does it for me.
@@jaymag9350 No!
@@Vid_Master Yes?
Really impressed with your video!! Start to finish was concise, detailed, well delivered and informative.
This was the first time I've happened upon one of your videos. I love the content mixed with humor. You had me laughing a few times. Keep it up!
I agree ! Lots of great info mixed with just enough humor fo keep it entertaining ! Well Done !
I’ve never had a problem with anything falling off my French cleat system however, that is a good idea. I also like the fact you add in the math.
"Enhance .... enhance ..." Anyone else think that Eric O. from SMA infiltrated this video?
Super troopers ?
Doing homework on a french cleat wall. This was EXACTLY what I needed!
The irony of someone saying a steel rule is the key to accuracy while using imperial measurements.
So? Imperial units are not inaccurate (today since their historic definition has changed). Imperial units are more prone to error when switching from fractional to decimal and adding feet and yards can mess things up.
Other than that the inch is a very accurate unit since the very definition of the inch is 25.4mm.
Touché Rocketx, touché
@@Craftswright Either way, it's just a line on a surface At my age, if you talk mm's, they're too little to see anyway.
Accuracy has nothing to do with the units you use! If your rule is good, you can measure using whatever units you like. If you never passed basic math with fractions and decimals, that is a totally different issue!
Imperial isn’t that bad once you get used to it 😁
So easy and so genius. Well done !!!!!!!!
Thanks!
You're making your cleats backwards. Cut your strips at 45°, and then half them at 90°. Way easier to get equal halves.
or just make a single cut at 45 degrees on a lot of boards at the right width - no need to split them at all...
@@steenteudt your method involves a lot more cutting.
@@bronsontaylor7333 no it’s the same. And it is easy
@@JimmyHandmix the way in the video shares a cut in the middle. Meaning you get 2 pieces of cleat for 3 cuts. What you're suggesting is 4 cuts for two pieces of cleat.
@@bronsontaylor7333 4 cuts - 4 pieces. Or 2 cuts - 2 pieces depends on when you stop and how many you need.
Of course you would need one more cut to get them to the desired length if the length you need is not the length of the board.
I guess I solve this problem a couple decades ago when I was doing a lot of French cleats. And solving that problem of cutting it perfectly in the center so you get exact matching split cuts was a luxury of time my job would not allow me to figure out so I would usually cut one side just a tiny bit over and then trim them both when I chamfered the edges.
Ignore these other knuckleheads. Good stuff.
Over the years I have only used French cleats when hanging cabinets or heavy frames for this exact reason. This was genius. I wish I had thought of it. Oh and thanks for the math. No guess work needed.
Do the Math, do some more Math, then just eyeball it and cut it in half. LOL
Great vid!
Further simplification:
You should just make a keyhole. At 12:03 you could just make a "window" through to the back of the cleat (a hole with two sides rather than just one side which you have here). Then you stick a dowel-shaped key through the hole, and friction would keep it in place. You could even make a pull-hole or a stopper on the end of the key if you wanted.
when your cleats are locked and you smack your head on it but it doesn't move
'Murica! lol
Building a camper and will be using french cleats for hanging items inside. And now, with the idea for the locking device, I can drive down bumpy roads with no problem.... I hope....
accurate measurements in imperial...try Metric! ;-)
Next time! :)
Imperial measurements are by definition as accurate as metric because the metric system is used to define them. An inch is literally defined as 25.4 mm, while the metre has a physics definition based on the wavelength of a specific color of light. Incidentally, based on the channel being in Portland, the US customary system is being used here rather than the Imperial system. Imperial measurements are used in the UK. Imperial/US Customary inches are the same, but the volume measurements, such as the gallon, are dramatically different (This is why exactly the same car tested the same way will have a lower mpg figure in the US than in the UK). It's the confusion over which gallon people mean when they say gallon and complete dimensional consistency (Energy in Joules is force in Newtons times distance in metres - no correction factors needed) that make the metric system easier.
@@peglor 8 know, that the joke about the imperial system, yet a scale or ruler can both show an inch and differ in cm/mm
I solved the same problem a little bit differently -- I used the same height cleat for both the tool holder and the wall. Then I make a key as a spacer (with a couple of pieces of paper for slip fit) to make two guage blocks to set the spacing at each end while laying up . Then I did not have to have two different sized cleats to maintain the spacing. Did I miss something that made it better to to make the tool-backing cleat shorter in size (other than to provide clearance?
A SAFETY ISSUE...
At 5:28, after you have made your test cut, it appears that the saw blade is still coasting to a stop while you are using the steel ruler to measure and while you are moving the test piece around on top of your saw table.
That is a recipe for disaster.
Stay safe.
You had the right amount of information and explained very well. I had seen the key method before, but you adding the chamfer and the cut for the finger nail to pull the key was very useful. I liked the idea of adding the cut out, but I would make it less long as it compromises the strength of the hold. So I would cut a shorter cut out on both sides. I would put a stopper in the center on the backside to prevent the key moving too far in. With short keys and the cut out on both sides you could have two shelves right next to each other and move the keys in and out without having to move the shelves that much. If done right, you would have a very good locking mechanism and still have good strength.