The REAL Key To Locking French Cleats?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- A few weeks after my last locking french cleat video a fellow Craftswright reached out with what may be an even better option. This video details his version of a locking french cleat system and pairs it side-by-side with my version so you can decide for yourself and your own french cleat wall!
Check out the how-to video on french cleats here: • Watch This Before Buil...
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😂😂
Great idea! Instead of dowels; however, I am going to use some of the used ammunition casings I have laying around. No cutting required and they already have a built in grove for me to grab and pull.
That’s brilliant! I have bags full of spent .556 brass and now I’m kicking myself in the pants for not thinking of that 🤦♂️
Now _that's_ the american solution!
Hmmm, using ammo casings might just make things too sexy, though.
Just genius.😂👍
That would look super nice too! Great idea!
What I love more than either option is how you brought this into your channel. Collaboration is king in any creative process and making time and effort to mention other ideas is fantastic. I can't say how many times I have researched multiple solutions/designs only to be blown away by a new a approach I never considered. Mad respect.
p.s. the Instagram link in your RUclips profile might be broken
I feel ya, every time I think I’ve figured it out I stumble across an even more ingenious and simplified method. Never ceases to amaze me haha
Thanks for the comment and the IG heads up!!
Hallelujah Jim, I agree the biggest take away for me is a respectful collaboration in public. Everything we do in pubic is part of a job interview in a way, and these two videos have convinced me that this is a man worth doing business with. My second biggest take away is that personally I'm going to pick the ease of use of the visible dowels over the smooth aesthetics of the hidden square cleat any day. My third take away is that I now have more designs in my knowledge base, so I'm better able to propose alternatives to friends or clients.
There is something pleasing about how Jeff's idea looks.
I'm starting to think so too. Almost looks like a pegged Arts & Crafts style joint
@@Craftswright ah smokes, good thinking, a nice dark hardwood like cherry or walnut could give it a really nice look!
I personally have used the dowel pins for over 30 years. When certain methods are forgotten, suddenly they are a new idea.
It's the cirrrrrcle of wooooooodworking lol honestly I like the idea that this isn't an original idea and all I did is resurface something forgotten, there's a poetry to that I think
similar to fashion...or art. as we try to construct something useful on top of the original genius. Since I have started woodworking I get so fired up to organize my shop. The thing I love is that its a flexible creative process that allows any ideas. A lost art, but will be found soon.
i use a knob on the front connected to a half disc in the back
so when you turn the half disc up it locks it really tight there is no movement whatsoever
turn the knob 180 degrees and you can take it of or slide it
its really neat and works like a charm plus its not really that hard to make
I'd love to see a few pictures of that!
yeah, my mind instantly went to a simple cam mechanism as well.
@@Deaner3D yeah exactly its a simplified cam mechanism mostly because its easy to make and i am kinda lazy
would be great to see this in action if at all possible..? plz?
Amazing!
I use wood golf T's. Cut them down to length, easy to grab and super cheep.
That's just........super simple and smart. Bonus points if you're a golfer too because then you're adding some of that aesthetic to your shop. I dig it Zio, thanks for sharing!
I used your idea! I built a single 4' cleat setup in the basement, and three 15" square 1x4 frames to hold golf bags upright. Locked the cleats/bag frames in place with tees. My wife thought it was funny, and ironic considering we have two, one gallon ziplocs full of them.
I'm going to use it, thanks
Cool idea... I golf. Perfect. One question.. Do you think it would work with just one tee instead of two?
@@raylewis1355 For me everything have use just 1 golf T except my router bit storage use 2. I have a lot of router bits.
I watched these two videos in succession, really good stuff that you came back and tweaked your design and shared it.
Double thanks Bill! 😁
Same. My comment on that last video was exactly this solution-- weirdly satisfying to see this recommended to me.
Go a step further on the dowel method and make them out of a darker wood. Make them stand out and be a feature on each piece. I think it'd look cool. It'd sort of be like making screw hole plugs on a piece of furniture, from a darker/lighter wood, to accentuate them as a feature.
As strange as it may sound, using the dowel method actually made it look like a piece of furniture. To me any way. You know how they use dowel plugs to hide screws in furniture and it's aesthetically pleasing to the eye. That's how I saw those. Both ideas are great. Thank you for sharing these ideas (I watched both videos). You have a new subscriber.
I see what you mean, kind of that Arts & Crafts style of slightly exposed joints. I like it even more now haha
You have two new subscribers 🤣🛫 I really like both of those concepts.
I definitely prefer the dowels, however I don't really see a need for two. Just one at the top center should be enough. In fact, a dowel with a knob would be perfect.
I second this sentiment.
Was thinking the same, begs the question, has it been tried?
Yeah I don’t see why there has to be two?
Yup, concur. The dowel could be larger but ya really need just one. //ji
Perhaps not at the center, but on the right or left side.
Yeah I'm going with Jeff on this one. Imagine if you used needless Walnut! Add some class to that wall.
Well heck, I have been kind of putting off doing a full cleat wall but this comment and these videos. Heck yeah. No reason you can't make it look good too.
No mid roll adverts. You get a comment and a like.
Plus good info thanks
Twenty nine sixty fourths or 11,5mm
After hundreds of hours listening to inhabitants of the US of A i still can't wrap my head around why
On a personal scale, people do it because it is easier for us. We have familiarity with it. Learning metric would have been easier, but now that we have learned the US customary units, using them is easier than learning metric.
Industrially, most things are already metric, possibly with a customary coat of paint on it.
On a country wide scale, there have been two major attempts to switch, both of which were ruined by French wars.
The first was under president Jefferson. He was friends with parties involved in the creation of the first meters and had one sent to be used in the US. The ship carrying the rule sank in a storm, and by the time that news of the wreck reached France, the men responsible for the meter had been executed in the revolution.
The second was much less dramatic. An attempt was made in the 60s, but stalled as more and more resources were dedicated to the Vietnam war.
@@TheExalaber We also tried it in the late 1970's. I remember gas pumps calibrated in liters, with price signs up for both liters and gallons. It just didn't take. Pity.
The part I didn’t get was where you called RUclips comments “useful” and “constructive.” Please explain
😂
Single centre dowel! But depends on the tool/cleat use. 👍 😎
I’ll have to give it a go!
Looks like the dowels could also be placed below the French cleat instead of between 2 French cleats.
I came to say the same thing. This works when the cleat is on the top row or if there is only one cleat (let's say to hang artwork).
this would make the system more universal (i.e. independent of the spacing between cleats), and also obviate the need for the excess length on the top part of the fixture.
Instead of dowels (which may easily be too tight or too loose), one might also use a nut (force fit into a hole) and then a screw. But it's not as elegant:)
We could take it one step further, and somehow turn the dowel into a cam lock. Twist it to lock it in. Maybe that could be accomplished by having the wall-side of the dowel shaped like a cam (shaved in a slight spiral shape), and the person-facing side have a slot that a screwdriver could twist.
So for that to work, I think the dowel hole would have to very slightly overlap the underside of the cleat.
I love watching human ingenuity, reduced to its most simplest (and eye pleasing) forms:) The best is seeing everyone come together to share ideas and brainstorm. and of course the comment section bellow! btw, ammo casings is an amazeballs idea! and never, "too sexy."
Scrapwood backer is good but if you also increase drill press rpm you'll get less blowout. Faster is almost always better when dealing with wood. I only ever slow down my rpms when drilling metal with larger bits. Also, good on you for sharing this improvement! Awesome!
I really like the dowel method. Also, if the sole purpose is to prevent accidental un-hooking, a single dowel in the center should do the trick.
Love the single dowel idea, and a small screw that goes into the wall cleat works great, too. Don’t forget that you can also insert the dowel just below the wall cleat to accomplish the same thing-more options if a fixture prevents one method or a person has French cleats with a wider spacing.
Agreed on all points. The screw on the face of the fixture just drives me bonkers though lol
When I saw the start of the other video, the first thing that popped into my head was just to use a screw, then next thing to come to mind was to us a bit of hangar with one end twisted into a semi circle so you have a handle to grab, and a slightly undersized hole predrilled so friction keeps it in place.
I think the dowel has the potential of being much prettier, but the bit of rod would seem to work as long as it is close to the enough to the bottom of a cleat so there is no room to bend.
best and most usefull way in my opinion, would be to make a slot in the back with a router, but (not all the way trough) this way the key can go fully in side. now you just have to drill a small hole in the middle and put a screw insert in it. now put a bolt trough with a washer on the key end so it can totate in the key but can't move forewards or backwards. (kind of like a wood clamp) now when you turn the bolt the key automaticly gets pushed in to the rail and get pulled back out when you turn the bolt the other side.
Drill your hole at a 45 degree angle down toward the wall and if you use this system in a work trailer the vibration won't cause the pin to come out.
Good idea!
Hmmm
maybe some kind if can. 1/4 turn to lock and slide 1/2 turn to fully lock
"Cam" not can
Interesting 🤔
I have been looking at mass producing so i can upgrade my toolboard, and the best I've come up with and it works, is:
1-Saw the dowel in the middle just enough of a cut to embed/lay down a brad that is trimmed to stick 3mm on each side of dowel, if you can saw on the edges and leave the center alone, the sawed part is to nail the brad tru (like a targetting channel if you use the nailer that leaves some meat). Or saw straight lay it down on the cut and go to nº3.
2-Put the brad nail straight tru the dowel near the edge.
3- Add some epoxy on top of the brad/pin/wire and make sure it coats enough of the channel, sand a bit. If you didn't leave the center add a couple staples (just make sure they stay as embedded in the wood as possbile - this might be necessary for bigger diameters mine are small, so i added 1 on the prototype, didn't trust the epoxy)
4- Draw the Diameter of the dowel + the nail sticking out (about 6mm total) to the back of the fixture by carving a relief cut of that size +1mm extra or so (i used a rotary tool/dremel type with the router head- don't need to be pretty is just deep enough to hide the nail tips when you pull, leaving the back of the fixture flat)
5-Add a pull tab or a screw with the hook end/eyelet on the outside of the dowel.
PS:I used a circle cut out of some plastic i had on hand instead of making the dowel like a bench dog, just glued and then the hook screw on outside. Creates a flat positive stop, not necessay if the cleat bottoms out as it should, its more for when you move it around so the dowel stays captive, and i don't plan on removing them.
My shop is not fancy, if its cheap and it works it leads.
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I think thats it for me on this one, its simple, cheap, and uses minimal materials to get the job done. Craftswright, you probably can come up with something a bit more elegant. Hope this helps everyone to upgrade.
Awesome breakdown and attention to detail MC! I never would have thought to make the dowel key captured in some way (otherwise I would have included it in the video) so that alone makes your comments worth their weight. Don't go anywhere, we need minds like yours in this community! Cheers friend
@@Craftswright Thank you for the kind words, hope more people see it and find it useful. I'll be glad if someone makes a video with this method, just so its out there (video tutorials are not my thing).
I'm super happy with this, already made a bunch of new locks for what i have and now, no more falling tools. I did have to beef up and double on the dowels and a stronger pin for a heavy tool holder and i'm going to make some of mine like yours extending longer than i need so i have a bit more room to put the dowel locks in, that way i can lock it up or down from the tool like yours. Cheers.
I kept anticipating you to demonstrate that larger dowel on the left as a cam lock to fix the cleat in place. But it never happened. The idea occurred in my head but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking full credit for that. So there's the idea for you. A rotating dowel cam lock.
I dig it Alex!
Another idea what about a rotational key. The key would rotate 90°-180° with a screwdriver to lock in, and rotate the screw left or right to unlock it, the key would be flush with the bracket.
Wonder if a cam like lock might work something moved by magnet or wood key but removable leaving the cam in place. The key is used to unlock as well all from the front face with a cam mechanism on the back
THIS is why you build everything in your shop on a system. This is great
Make those pins walnut! And give it some glam.
I like the dowel pins. Easier to remove and take things to the bench or Jobsite.
I definitely love the look of this! Only downside is that it requires every holder to be taller--rendering that top bar useless to hang even more things. I agree with some other commentors that locking it on the same bar (bottom flat side of the cleat) would be better.
with the cleat running all the way along the back, you really only need one locking pin in the middle (or anywhere really), since the cleat can't rotate. it'll rack a little bit because of the tolerances, but won't come out.
Good point! I think I went with two because I hadn’t thought of just one, and the symmetry 😁
@@Craftswright Hadn't seen this video when commented on the other one, but i was experimenting with the one i have, and found something that works better than just pulling it out, a piece of metal on the inside tip of the dowel, a flat piece or a nail sideways on the very tip to form a T or an L, make enough relief on the fixtures back for it to lay flat once you pull the dowel outwards, and that way it never gets lost or falls off. Its not much work and it gets the button lock effect. a bit like those old car door locks that you had to pull up.
Very clever MC! A small brad nail or the like on the back side to keep the dowel captured, I dig it!
@@Craftswright Thats what i used to test and it seems plenty, just make sure to not use a very long one so its less work carving, since you have to carve all around in case it twists. I'm playing with the idea of screwing a hook screw or whatever they are called so i can hang something from it and still use it to pull. Will depend on application. But this seems like a solid way to go. Can't think of a single thing that needs improving.
Keep up the good work MC and keep us posted!
twentynine-sixtyfourth-inch ... how's that for measuring freedomheit :-)
Sorry ... cool video, mate!
I'm not really a fan of french cleats at all, I've found that I really don't move the fixtures around. So I just screw my fixtures to the wall. With that I'm not constrained by the cleat positions, I can mount the fixtures at arbitrary positions vertically as well. Moving a fixture is just unscrewing it and putting it somewhere else.
Definitely nothing wrong with that method Dana, I've even seen some people just screw fixtures directly to plywood walls. But my weird head has a problem making up it's mind so I like the modularity. I still think it's pretty cool how many different ways there are to do things in woodworking and how we each have what works for us. Thanks for the comment!
This is cool; another advantage of the dowel method is that you can cut it long, and you now have a post to hang even more stuff, like cords, accessories, etc.
Double use! I dig it
I like the pins, but they could be improved by making them captive and spring-loaded. I'd be interested to see a fixture with a single captive, spring-loaded pin in the middle of it, two would be too fiddly to move.
Captive would be interesting for sure!
Just an idea because there's million of ways to do it. So why not a cam arm. So on the face you have a dowel plug. Behind it is a threaded rod insert . Make an egg shaped cam with wood. Bolt that in with a machine screw with a hex head . Use a locking nut behind the cam countersunk in. That way you turn the Allen key and engage the cam. Then you put your fancy dowel plug cap on and the Allen key slot vanishes. Or you can embellish it and use contrasting metal or make the whole thing from wood. But the end result is you turn the key and the cam locks in place
The cam idea has been mentioned a few times now but I like the way you described it. I might need to give it some experimentation. Thanks d green!
Ok i like both methods but will throw another idea our there for you. On the outer face create an inverted L shape channel half way through the board. Then cut a through channel in the middle of the of the inverted L. Cut a small piece of matching wood (this will act as a sliding piece on front face) and insert a dowel that will fit within the cut through channel. Attach your locking pin to dowel at the back. Then All you have to do to lock into place is move slide into the top of inverted L, to released, slide across to main shaft of L, then as you move item off cleat the locking pin will be pushed to bottom of the inverted L. I hope that all makes sense. I am only a beginning woodworker and have no idea of all the correct terms.
I think I get what you're explaining Katsuninken and it sounds pretty clever!
If anyone is having trouble getting the heights to work out properly, you need to understand, cutting 45's, it makes a difference in how (what location) you use to measure and set the fence. Flat on the Table, bottom of Blade and Bottom of Board, or, Top of the board and top of the blade.. There will be a `1/2" difference in length if you choose the wrong one. Choose to measure in the middle, and you will be playing with a 1/4" difference, or half of the plywood thickness in this case which is 1/2" plywood for Cleats...
Remember. The total height is at the long side of the cut 45 (whether you added and removed the 1/4"(1/8" Sharp Edges each side).
It is not easy to set a fence to a top measurement. Much easier to a bottom, which is the thickness of the material's difference shorter.
The finished height of 3-5/8" should be cut at the point of contact of the board against the table saw, and where the saw blades connects to the plywood at that point(The Short Side). It is 1/2" less than the long side measurement from the 90 degree to the sharp edge of the 45..
Hope that helps. Confused me a time or two when I haphazardly selected the center of the board to set the blade, vs the bottom. Cheers!
I think it would be cool to make the dowel as wide as a small magnet. Glue the magnet to the top and make it long enough to be flush with the holder when inserted. Then you can just use any metal (screw driver, pliers, whatever) and touch the magnet to pull out the dowel. Trick with this would be when storing metal parts, it might grab on to the dowel and pull it out, so some testing might be required.
Creative alternative rjtumble!
How about taking a cue from the planer wall storage so many people use? Build a double-ended cleat that slips under the top cleat, but leaves enough room so that if you lift it up, you can tilt the bottom out and then let it slide down and away. That would be harder to make, but is both clean and self-contained.
Fair point!
Just found and subscribed to your channel. Living in an earthquake zone (Victoria, BC) one of my concerns has been how to keep my french cleat fixtures from potentially popping off the wall if a mild tremor occurs (nevermind the Big One). I think either your key or dowel system would help, thanks! Now to find a convenient way to keep the tools on the fixtures...
Welcome fellow Canadian! (I'm dual citizen, family is from mostly Alberta, but I have some living in Victoria as well). I haven't started to tackle tool locks on the cleats yet, but that does sound like an interesting challenge..... Cheers!
@@Craftswright always nice to chat with another Canuck!. Keep up the good work, looking forward to more videos. PS nice touch adding the math descriptions, it’s an overlooked detail.
This looks like the best option, but could you make it a little simpler by just putting one dowel in the center of the fixture rather than one on each side? I suppose it could rock a tiny bit, but definitely still won’t come out.
I think you make a good point Thomas!
I like the way the dowels look, but I mean if you really want to get creative, you could change the shape of them to a square, triangle or octagon. Then they would really stand out. Or just glue those shapes to the ends of the dowels as handles for them, then you don't have to change the shape of the hole.
I like the decorating idea, makes them custom and unique to each user, good call!
Magnets. Yes magnets, neodymium magnets.
You'll use a forstner bit and drill a hole on the back side of the key, near the left or right edge of the key. In that hole you'll epoxy in a neodymium magnet. You'll then wax the key or make sure that it's super smooth. Then you'll partially insert the key, with the magnet going into the cleat. Then you'll use another neodymium magnet to 'catch' the key. Once you 'catch' the key you can use the magnet you are holding to slide the key into place. Once the key is where you want it slide the magnet up or down to break the connection and the key will remain in place.
To remove the key use the same procedure in reverse. Slide the magnet up or down to 'catch' the key, then slide it out of the cleat, once you can grab the key you can slide the magnet you are holding up or down to break the connection.
kinda the other direction, more complex, but couldn't there be a button that locks/unlocks a cam?
Cams are really popular it seems. I need to explore them
Putting the cleat on the underside of the wall rail would work better as it would allow for unequal spaced cleats. Also it can be used with wall braced holders where there is only 1 wall cleat.
Good point Chris
Simple and elegant. The only downside depends on what you want to put on the wall and if you don't have a good spot to locate the pins.
True
A quicker and much cheaper way is to use a concrete nail as a locking pin. Although not as aesthetically pleasing.
Oh yeah good call!
But......how will we lock the dowels in place.
Drill out the dowel, then glue into the back of the dowel a small shaft of metal or glue a small piece of dowel on top of a metal shaft for cosmetics. This will make the magnet work but still look esthetically appealing for the woodworker in you. 😀😉
I like the pins, seems simple enough. However, my first thought on this is to integrate the pin with a pull or push button effect which you don't need to fully remove to operate the locking mechanism. Something that like a one inch dowel that you can turn a quarter turn and it locks the hanger? I can't yet visualize this mechanism, but I'm still thinking about it. A sliding bar accessible from the front on angle to the wall that you can just slip in and out, moving about two inches? It doesn't have to be thick- it could be a flexible thin piece, like a paint stick, that slide in a slit in front... lots of different approaches to this.
Got it! Below the area that needs "locking" is the back of the cleat from which the panel is mounted and there is room to cut into this and create a zone for which you can make a latch lock.The pin is only used to turn a hooked sliding bar upward that has a gravity latch, basically a shim with an exaggerated back stop that catches on the support cleat's top end, to act as the locking mechanism, very simple to make, and would slide along straight paths not hard to batch out for everything.
Genius! If you want to keep the dowels flush with the face of the cleat just drill a small hole in the center and run a screw into it, then remove the screw. make a small knob with the same screw protruding, and just a turn or two into a dowel should be enough to grab and pull it out. I like the idea of walnut, or stained dark for contrast too. Slick idea!
I must say, after having watched your first video, this dowel method seems ever so much easier! For a shop project, seamless appearance isn't as important to me. Plus, I would think that having the slot cut in the fixture backing so you can reach behind & get the key (as per your first video) detracts from a seamless look anyway. Unless I just missed something, of course, with that. Anyway, thank you for showing this updated version. I'll definitely keep this for when I do french cleats. Hope you have a great day!
I watch both of your videos and I love both designs. I am about to make and install my own French Cleat wall! Thank you for sharing!!
I like the peg better. I wasn't crazy about the look of the slit and seemed a little awkward to get in and out. But, seemed worth being able to lock. The pegs look good to me. BTW your video is my absolute fav for diy french cleats thus far and believe me I have watched quite a few. Thanks.
Actually starting on one of these now, this was right on time. I think I like the dowels
Great. Until you get some moisture in the shop and they swell up and u need to drill them out since you can't get them out.
Just screw it to the damn wall and be done!
Hey @Craftswright
I found your French Cleat videos searching for exactly this kind of problem.
I really liked your first video with your keys.
And I am absolutely loving the fact, that you take suggestions of your community and show it to all of us. That is just great!!!
Greetings from Germany.
What about countersinking a screw and then being able to cover the head with wood filler? You could then make it flush to be able to remove with a magnet, but it would blend in.
Or you could also just put the screw in from the back side...as long as it was close enough the the surface to attracted to the magnet.
My MO for shop furniture/fixtures is 95% function, 5% fashion. I’d go with a single pin, if I even did any at all. It is good to know this trick if there comes a time where I have a clear fixture that is prone to bumping.
But why can’t we have form and function in shop furniture?? Haha I hear ya though
@@Craftswright in a perfect world 😊
But in my world, it costs more in money and time to make purdy thangs 😁
Touché 😆
Woodshop Junkies video on ‘Self-Locking French Cleat Mount - How To’. is a somewhat involved design but works really well.
Have you considered a cam-lock version of this?
I like and suggested using Dowels. This is much better, who cares about looks FUNCTION is the MAIN reason for having/doing anything.
Neatness is fine but not ESSENTIAL.
Less but better FTW
Absolutely right! The requirement is accessible tool storage in a workshop, not furniture for a living room.
Really interesting! 😃
That's a fantastic idea! Thanks a lot!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Cheers MC 😁
Allow me to introduce my 100% invisible and 300% effort French 🥖 Cleat locking design: i.imgur.com/IQtlE0h.png 😁
great vids, put one dowel behind the mallet handle on lower cleat then it would be hidden. for me i rarely have wood above top cleat anyway
Jeff's idea. it adds to the look like anything with studs like motorcycles, bracelets, leather or even a magnificient burgundy padded door
Ive had a french cleat wall for a few years. I've yet to having anything fall off it's cleat.
Ya never know though, ya know?
Maybe you don't live in an earthquake zone.
Perfect solution for a problem which does not exist.
Why using two dowels? One would do the same job as well. Put it in the middle.
First off, I'm a welder Fabricator, i.e. a metal guy if you will. One of the things I try to point out to people just getting started in welding, is stop trying to create a six inch weld, when maybe depending on what your building, a couple of "TAC's {weld's}" will suffice / do. Not everything needs to have a "Continuous-Weld," along all edges.
Now, as a metal guy, maybe I'm missing something, but just why is it that you need "TWO-PINS," and maybe you could demonstrate just why one in the "CENTER," is not an option?????
Last time I checked, every thing still falls down, not up. LOL.
Personally, for the "Pin's," either use some type of a contrasting color say like mahogany, or stain them a different color, to make them pop, if you will. Thanks for sharing. And a Big shout-out to Jeff (Not Jeffery.)
Just another idea for pins, use say some Aluminum / Stainless (not cheap $$$), or some Brass (again, not cheap $$$) material. Just throwing it out their. Maybe in the wood world, my idea is nuts.
I'm just gonna drill a 29/64th of an inch... And people find metric confusing... That's 11,5mm or 1 centimeter and 1,5 millimeter
If you prefer the hidden look of the sliding key why not just make one long key for each cleat? Pull it from the side, make whatever adjustments you need to on that row, then slide the key back
Arrgghhh…. ‘A 29/64th “ hole! Do you know how hard it is to get Imperial drill bits in the civilised world (excluding America, more because of your addiction to Imperial than any civilisation 😆 joke)
Looks good and your cleats are the foundation.
Yep, as you say, use both but dowels for ‘in between’ ones
EDITED.... I had a better thought...
2 dowels in a piece of wood.... 1 x ~2 x 0.25 (inches)
Place this on the side of fixture where it would land between cleats
Drill 2 holes for the dowels to go into in the side of the tool fixture through the piece of wood... one on each side if desired.
The fixture has 2 holes - the LOCK has 2 dowels that are glued into it.
Now place fixture on cleat wall. Slide the cleat lock into the side of the fixture.
The depth of the dowels need only be 1/2 an inch and the lock only 1/4th an inch thick.
You preserve the fixture face.... which matters because the front dowel lock method (which I like) might not work with the design on the front of the fixture....
As we know your slide locks wont work in tight fits....
BUT!!! this can work with as little as 5/8ths gap between fixtures... and even in a tight cleat wall there is always at least this much space.
These locks do not prevent sliding - they are easy to pull out and move the fixture from cleat to cleat.... you can typically use just 1 but when in doubt place a lock on both sides!
I can send a "blue print" if you want.... and I suspect my explanation might warrant this... so have already drawn it up in SketchUP if you would like to see just message me!
LOVE THE VIDEOS!!!! KEEP EM COMING!!!
Chilly
Hey, Merry Christmas. I watched your original locking Freedom-Cleat system when you posted it... and now this one from Jeff R. Frankly both have their advantages and disadvantages.
I like yours because it doesn't provide the eye anywhere to note something "sticking out." I like his because it solves a potential problem with a minor nit about dowels sticking out (this time literally).
In my head (which means I want to imagine it, but my hands lack the skill to transfer it to wood exactly as I envision it yet) I would like a hanger system that prevents both vertical motion (both your solutions solve that) AND ALSO horizontal motion. If I reach for an item in a Freedom-Cleat mounted box I don't expect that box to move with my swiping motion...
This could be solved by making the underside of the upper wall-mount piece... instead of being straight... being a bunch of upside-down half-holes. The "Jeff R Dowels" would then fit partially in them, still preventing upward (vertical movement), and also preventing side to side (horizontal) movement. While that would limit where on a mount a shelf might go from infinite 1/10000th" slots to N slots... it would make the cleat system more like a conventional shelf that doesn't move up, down, left, or right, until and unless you remove the dowels.
Bonus thought: You will now know the interdowel-spacing so you can create "handles" that are a horizontal piece that have two or more dowels. Insert dowel, move hanging piece right or left untl handle goes all the way in... piece is now horizontally+vertically locked and instead of two sticking out dowels with a "fingernail grab" cutout, there's a real handle.
Probably I've spent more time explaining it than it would take to make one, but of course batching this is the bear. The amount of time to cut the half-holes in the bottom of the hanger above... would be the part of the process that could be improved... Maybe Rob Cosman has a jig for that... [respectfully!]
Ehud Gavron
Tucson AZ US
Helicopter pilot who does what he dreams
Woodworker who dreams amazing things and makes refrigerator art in the shop
From another corner of the nett i hear the cries: THERE IS ALWAYS A JEFF! Why do i necro and what is a Jeff you might ask? A Jeff is smarter than you, he did everything before, hes not afraid to tell you, and depending on the Jeff, he is insufferable. Imagne getting told how a elevator works on a Star Trek convention. This one seam like a nice guy thoug. On the "why necro", just found your chan and thumbs up, and the Jeff joke ofc.
I think, with Jeff's idea, you only need one pin, centered...no?
Yup can totally just do one, didn’t think of that at the time 😁
Both ways seems to do the locking. But is that locking necessary? I am just planning to build my first French cleat wall, so any opinions based on experience would be appreciated."
G'day from Australia! Just found your channel and really enjoying your videos. IMHO, I think Jeff has you beat.. :) Only due to the simplicity of making the keys and the way they function. I like the look of the dowels, as it is still wood-on-wood. But I don't think using metals or plastic keys would look any good at all. Even contrasting wood dowels would still look great. Cheers. Dan.
I think you should paint the ends of the dowel rods KREG blue with a black dot in the center. That way, you'll always know "The Eyes of Texas are Upon You". I'm from Texas.
Both ideas seem effective. I would assume you could incorporate both in conjunction with each other.
Why not drill a small hole for the magnet into the dowel and put a small cap or vaneer over it so it sits flush but can be pulled out with a magnet. Or drill the hole from the opposite end so no cap or vaneer needed. Or something along the lines of a domino for a wider area on a single key.
If you have a domino that would work perfect. As for the magnet idea, I thought of that as well but ultimately decided it’s too much effort for the return. BUT, if one were to make a really fancy French cleat area out of hardwood for a display or something then I think that hidden magnet idea would be ideal!
What about if you attached a circle off centre to the back of that dowel (and lower the dowel a bit)/a circle where the radius increase as you go around the circle (can't remember what that is called) then you can lock it in place by rotating to the the dowel (attach a handle) and you never have to remove it. It's as easy as screwing and unscrewing it would also be much more rigid.
An off-center cam is what you're talking about I think? That would be an intersting solution!
You could make the cam completely hidden by adding weight opposite the large part of the cam -- perhaps a bolt. Gravity would hold it locked, and to remove you would lift and slide to the side a bit.
@@alans1816 All these ideas are really cool, but I'd rather be doing other things, like actually producing something in my shop.
Entertaining and educational to see, however.
Jeff wins
Jeff - not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need.
Dowels are better. Easier to make too. Love your channel! Hope you get more subs. Nice editing. I love Jay bates and you seem a lot like his channel.
That’s a huge compliment and I’ll 100% take it, thank you much Adam!
Kudos to Jeff, and you; clever! Instead of notches I will be epoxying those "google eyes" from the craft store, slightly larger than the dowel diameter (but I grew up eating lead paint, ymmv).
When I saw the comment suggesting a dowel, I loved the idea, but because I immediately jumped to another interpretation: a short dowel with a notch removed like a bench dog, turned to lock/unlock rather than pulled out.
However, I'd go a step further. It's probably more complicated than you're seeking, but I'd far rather make the key 3 pieces:
- a 1/2" dowel "axle" entering a hole positioned 3/8" below the bottom of the top cleat on each side: O
- a small wood cap: (O) (thin slice of 1" dowel, square block, whatever - or if you're turning these out, make the axle and cap one piece)
- a wooden block 1/2" x 1" fully rounded on one end and curved to the other end similar to a logarithmic spiral and a small chamfer on the front of flat side (to avoid digging into the cleat below): O'`\ (glued on and reinforced with a screw assuming we're gluing to end grain)
See where I'm going with this? Each key would be locked in place between the front and back pieces so it can't be lost. The front is the dial you turn (top outward to lock, inward to release). And the offset disc in the back actually friction locks against the cleat eliminating slide and even rattle, until you actually _want_ to move it. Also because it turns in place, you'll have a much easier time working around obstructing contents. Yeah it gets fancy, but I don't DIY to save money - I do it for a better result.
It is a moot point though. In the shop I prefer to keep everything enclosed to simplify dust cleanup and also need to make more efficient use of vertical real estate (i.e. depth), which leads to other special-purpose forms of modular storage. For stuff like garden tools, I'm happy enough with the commercial products available to focus my effort elsewhere.
Possibly a little simpler...use only a single dowel. And it doesn't have to be centered or at the top. You're just keeping the fixture from moving upward, so the dowel key could be anywhere on the fixture that clears loading/unloading. Yeah, I know, I'm a late commenter.
Nathan
A 29/64th inch hole. So 11.5mm? I'll never understand US insistence on using inches. Love the content! Looking forward to building my own french cleats wall soon. =)
Because its ours.....no matter how crappy it is!
You must be not yet 'mature'. When you get my age a mm. is just too tiny, and I can select my inch fracyional denominator to fit my vision.
Well, I simply grew up with a more sensible system. I will thankfully never have to mature into using inches. For those that do, though, that's completely fine.
Why two keys per hanging item? Why not just one, for simplicity?
Seriously people, why over engineer a simple problem. One simple screw placed in the wall mounted cleat through the back plate of the shelf bracket solves this. Bracket won’t shift, pop off, simple to remove and easily accessible. How many times are you honestly going to move your tool brackets around? Don’t like the screw showing? Put a label over it and Uncle Bob is your new Auntie Jo.
This gave me idea to incorporate a spring mechinism somehow...So I push upwards against spring and remove from lip. Maybe Craftswrite can make it so I don't have to:P
Why would you need two of them? One in the center will work just as well. I didn't like the key in the back. I also think the ones with springs (other RUclipsrs) is way too complicated and expensive. Quick and simple is best.
I'm too lazy to make the wooden key system to it's the dowels for me. THEN, I read txtaz74's comment and I am forced to do the slow "golf clap". That's brilliant and totally bad azzed American based idea.
Imo just skip cleats. Fix them with screws. And since you cant reposition you will know where your tool live. Faster to build and u dont have put so much time on finding the perfect place. N
Quite pointless. Needlessly using serverspace by posting useless "great ideas"...
One could argue you just did the same by taking up server space with your comment that served no purpose ;)
@@Craftswright I don't think that TheApalachian's comment served no purpose, just not the purpose they desired.
For some reason, RUclips likes to promote videos that are "engaging" or have lots of comments, and replies to those comments. So congrats TheApalachian, you helped boost RUclips's ranking of this video! Hopefully many more people will see it now, thanks to your efforts.
You're the master! And I really like Jeff's method👍
Hey now, I already have a big enough ego as it is.... hahaha
@@Craftswright 👍🙂
I just came from the other video when I saw this in the recommended list. Dang. Pretty blown away at the even easier solution!
Spring loaded sliding tab. Flush with top cleat when locked. Depress/slide downwards to unlock. Cleaner look, only one needed, doesn’t interfere with surrounding.
I like the hidden lock idea but I'd build it so it could be held in place by a wood sprung lever latch, flush with the side. Finger pushes it down to unlock.
I'm thinking a piece of 1/4 ply running horizontally the width of the fixture at the rear fixed to a block on one side. The locking piece is fixed on top of this strip of ply around halfway(?) along. Your finger could press the ply strip down which releases the lock. Spring tension locks it in place. No losing tiny bits of wood under the workbench etc.