Why am I Flying in Circles?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- As I am training more, I have been doing some self assessment on my flights lately and noticed more than ever I am giving way to other planes in the traffic pattern to avoid conflicts. I am not 100% certain if this is the best action but for me it seems to be. should we pilots anticipate giving way to other planes at any point in flight?
Every takeoff should be planned as rejected.
Every Landing should be planned as a Go Around.
Should every pattern entry anticipate a 360 to give way to others?
The number one way you can help my channel is to share videos you like on your social media streams.
Other ways to Support the channel
Become a Patreon Supporter:
/ justplanesilly
Subscribe if you haven't already. I have the best, Most fun and vocal group of subscribers in aviation. Join us and lets laugh and banter about aviation. This is supposed to be fun.
Just Plane Silly Merch:
teespring.com/stores/just-pla...
Check out my other websites:
METAR translation with an attitude problem
www.METARAF.com
Flight Planning / Kneeboard generator (U.S. only)
www.preflightdata.com
Other sites in progress:
www.WorldsGreatestPilot.com
www.JustPlaneSilly.com 
Развлечения
Rules and right of way exist for a reason. Follow those rules, your plane has a parachute for a reason people, after you enforced those rules in the sky you can hit the ground with a nice satisfying thud. Plus you showed that other pilot.
Hahaha!!!!!
The Army taught me that I can only control what I can touch. Being willing to be the 360 guy means you understand that you can’t influence the actions of others and you will do what you need to for a successful outcome. Well done!
Being the 360 guy is called being nice and respectful, it also helps being the 360 guy on the ground too. Don't be a jerk, be more like Bryan with a Y.
“Control what I can control” - love that! Why are folks in such a hurry to land anyway? I’m also a 360 guy.
"We should all want to be the 360 guy." - Outstanding advice! We should all strive to be safe and respectful to others.
I’m also always the 360 guy unless the other pilot says it first. This way I don’t ever have to wonder what the other guy is going to do. And I call it ADSB. “I have you on ADSB”
Correct!
Being the 360 guy is the safe, humble approach.
The one exception, and I'm not a pilot, so , not sure where in air travel this is important, but there's difference between humble 360 guy, and hesitant unpredictable guy.
I cycle commute to work - and I will sometimes assert myself to be predictable. So that other people can make informed decisions because they have some confidence in assuming what my next action will be.
Anyway - great call out. I agree - be the (confident) 360 guy. We all appreciate them.
CFII and "360 guy" here. You made a lot of great points and have an attitude I wish more pilots shared. As far as an alternative to "I've got you on the fish finder" I usually say "I see you on ADS-B"... unless I'm on with ATC, in which case there are only 2 responses for traffic: "Negative contact" or "Traffic in sight".
absolutely agree! situational awareness and risk assessment is key. And I don't even fly. on my bike..... drive it like a vehicle (so road placement, signals etc) , but be aware, dont "react" at daft people but well, react. driving, drive defensively and let people know your intentions - but yield to those you just had a feeling about. Best of all, be confident in your abilities but mindful of the unexpected - and have a plan for it
I love the "fish finder" term. Its concise, brief, and funny. I noticed you had low-sun angles during this flight, which really hampers visual cues. Flying is like golf...it teaches etiquette. This is a great video for newer pilots.
@ 4:50 - i like "I see your ADS-B target"
I’m the 360 guy too. It took a 360 to decipher the accent/language barrier of a guy on final just a couple weeks ago. Real world problems.
I think it should be officially referenced as Fish Finder in all future FARs. Petition the FAA. Let's get this done!
Bryan, you are ABSOLUTELY correct, If you are the 360 Guy, You don't DIE ! So many pilots out there think that because they might, have the right of way, they are OK ! WRONG! Flying is a Visceral and Fluid activity and we Have to and Need to be aware of our surroundings at ALL times.
Done plenty of 360's and also have had to assert myself a bit, but still willing to break it off. Recently riding into GLE on a north flow in a twin and was going to do a practice RNAV. Was apparent I was going to overtake the Cessna on base to final so just 360'd for spacing and then resumed. Then a cirrus from the SW calls in for intentions on a straight in so I politely re-iterated that we were already established on final for the RNAV. In the end the cirrus also 360'd and I just thanked them for sharing the space given I had just yielded. I think you really hit it in that we have to be ready and willing to act but also have the mindset that we share the airspace and can't assume everyone hears and processes all transmissions. - and we have a lot of student activity as you well know. Safe flying!
First.... you did the absolut right thing.. yield and be safe, and live to fly another day. Second... I think we need to standardize the "Fish finder" term. LOL I'm not much of a fisherman... but I think it's funny and gets the point across. Third... thanks for making this vid. I know your channel is for humor, but sometimes we need real life stuff. FYI... Like you... I'm also an older guy looking to change up careers. (half way through my IFR)
Outstanding. I'm loving having a big lofty goal ahead of me. Now every flight is a little more meaningful cuz I'm working towards something
@@JustPlaneSilly But in Texas you're supposed to cuss them out and question their ancestry
Thanks for sharing!
Man - I thought your *old* work was funny. This was the most sublime, subtle aviation humor I've ever seen.
:)
Great message, Bryan. I support this way of thinking and I too am quick to extend downwind or do 360s. Way to go!
Nice work Bryan. You are absolutely flying with the right attitude. Much appreciated.
Totally agree with you! It can be frustrating when someone cuts you off but I would rather Deconflict than force the issue!
You are showing characteristics of the kind of professional pilot that I want to share the skies with!
Even though I am not a pilot I think this was a great video! I would agree with your thought process of just yield. I also think if you ever run across something like this when you are editing videos that you should make a video about it. One day I may actually get out there and get my PPL and something like this most likely will be stuck in the back of my head, and that is a good thing in my opinion! Thanks for sharing BrYan!
I just say ADS-B. I hate "fish finder", too.
Yeah, I say something like "no visual contact, but we have you on ADS-B"
Ditto on the “ fish finder “. ADSB is just fine
“Any traffic in the pattern, I got you on the fish finder, please advise what number you got in the box, I’m with you”
... too close for missiles, switching to guns. 😉
If I'm 1 ft lower than the other guy, come hell or high water I'm going in, GOOD LUCK EVERYONE
Thank you Bryan, good work.
Aviate, don't fly into anything, and keep flying the airplane.
Navigate, deconflict and safely do what is necessary, say a 360 or whatever - whilst the guidelines for deconfliction are very usefull, it doesn't help flying in accordance with the guidelines if the other pilot continues to arrogantly fly at you or manouver dangerously, irrespectivly of procedure.
Communicate, clearly and consisely, even if the plane you are deconflicting with does not respond (possibly radio failure, but often poor airmanship by not being on frequency or just so beyond competency and/or way behind the airplane) but also to alert others to your intentions. And keep talking where necessary to ensure clarity of positions and manouvering.
We more so much more humility like this. Thank you Bryan.
Truest line in the video, “ if you’re dead it doesn’t matter what the book says”! Amen Brother!
I’m a motorcycle instructor, a phrase I use with students when teaching defensive techniques is “even if it’s your right, you’re wrong”. If you can take an action to prevent an accident you should, regardless of who has right of way.
You are vulnerable out there. As pilots, gravity always wins. So arguing that you had the right away is moot when you auger in. Others will make mistakes, you will make mistakes, it’s better for everyone when someone can see and avoid those mistakes.
“He was in the right” is a terrible phrase for a gravestone.
Your dog thought you were talking too much. 😅
Part of why I love this channel is the stuff ya make me think about. Thanks for another great video :)
I'm a post solo student pilot in Germany. It would also be my 1st action to divert or do a 360. Loved your video. Very educating and helpful.
This is helpful thanks
If EVeryone does a 360, we will just make cloverleaves. SA before you get to the airspace is key. If you listen for who is being a jock, who is a student, or who is just lost, before you get to Northwest, you will know what to do. My brother will fly in there, just switches to CTAF; broadcasts,and maneuvers all at the same time. It’s not malicious, just careless and ignorant. Bryan is sharp, smart, and humble. Top shelf, thanx for your videos
"If you're dead it doesn't matter what the book says" is spot on.
Rode motorcycles for ten years before i started on my PPL in 2017. First thing they taught us in the MSF class i took to get my license in 2006 was "it doesn't matter if you have the right of way, the car will always kill you." Same thing applies in aviation.
I'm not a pilot but it makes total sense to me. Keep up the great work Bryan 💪
I have a similar challenge. I fly at a busy training airport just outside the DC SFRA. It is uncontrolled, and there are a lot of student pilots doing touch and goes in the pattern. When I see that the pattern is saturated, I will prolong my flight and monitor the traffic on ADSB and wait for things to calm down before heading toward the pattern. It is a lot less stressful than doing 360’s close to the airport. Just my humble opinion.
So, KOKV?
You are applying the same philosophy, taking control of your own actions.
“Fish-finder” is one of my pet peeves also. Your analysis in this video is correct; I’ve been flying for many years as an USAF pilot, major airline pilot, and private pilot.
You can't just say it's a pet peeve of yours and not give the correct phraseology! USAF? We'll call it the targeting system then! 😆
Me too. Can’t stand when someone says that!
“ no joy”is used by a few as well,rather than “ negative traffic etc” .
Can't remember where I heard it, but "I'd rather be alive than 'right.'" is 100000000000% true.
Excellent video - thanks for sharing - even if it IS serious... :)
A solid review of practical applications of ADM. I encourage you to keep this video and show it to your future students.
If it hasn’t already been pointed out, AC 90-66C builds on what you shared.
Bryan, I also applaud you for making more serious videos. When you have the exposure that you do, the offering of serious content is more heeded than a joke.
And you’re so correct on how much more busy the NW area of DFW is compared to when you and I started flying sooo many years ago.
Used to go to DTO with students for pattern work all the time. Not so much anymore as I’ll be told pattern full. Or maybe I’ll get 3 or 4 laps and then be directed to exit.
Hurumph…. I’ll just go over to KAFW and mix it up with the Amazon cargo jets and military traffic.
Hops to Decatur or Bridgeport can be hit and miss. Sometimes just me or another. Other times, 7 to 9 trying to use the pattern and some with their own interpretation of how to do it safely.
I like the funny videos, but this is one of your best. Great lesson.
I'd say "I've got you on ADSB" but I'm ok with whatever as long as it's clear to everyone what you're talking about.
Apart from that, I'm a big fan of the points you made in this video: Just yield. be the 360 guy - it's WAAAAY better than being the stubborn guy who got into a crash.
Your doing a Great Job.
Never heard "fish finder" before, but I like it. I always say ADSB, but fish finder is humorous, harmless, and everyone knows what it means. Sometimes we pilots need to lighten up.
Wait, you said you had never heard "fish finder" before and then state that "everyone knows what it means" In my mind that creates ambiguity, which as a pilot is a big hard No. Every pilot, and I am pretty sure that's every pilot knows what ADS-B is and what it means, so, that would be the right way to go.
4:22. My favorite part is when the guy says "10-4 we got you in sight". He's using old 1970's trucker lingo on the radio.😀
I agree it's not a "fish finder". Pro tip.....never tell ATC you have someone on "ADSB, TCAS or FISH FINDER". That information can't be used for ATC separation, so it is an absolutely useless thing to say. You either have them "in sight" or are "looking for the traffic".
I always just say negative contact which feels weird but I think I understand why that phrasing is used so it's what I use. I do have the overwhelming urge to always add but I'm looking afterwards but I never do
I think controllers also understand “no joy” which keeps the transmission brief.
You did the right things on both of those conflicts. Stopping the take off roll that soon into it was easy and then talking to the other pilot was perfect. Turing to the right to avoid the mid air was right as well. Being the nice and courteous while in flight works out better for everyone. Aviation isn’t a good place for bullies and people that don’t want to be chill.
Great video!
Glad your that guy!
I’m also one of those guys that want force my way in.
Better to be late than dead !
Deconfliction is always the right answer! Well done Bryan.
LOL i like the fish finder :)
It’s a fish finder or “the box” 😂
Wait!!! I thought "The box" was my transponder. I'm so confused.
Wait you can't be confused, someone has to fly the plane FFS 😂@@JustPlaneSilly
@@JustPlaneSilly hmm. Valid point. Maybe we call it AirVision or SkyTracker 2000? I owned boats so fish finder seems natural
Just don’t look up the urban dictionary version of “the box” or it won’t work for transponder or ADS-B you’ll never be able to say that with a straight face again
What's the name of the ADSB app on 5 Flight? Let's just call it that.
I like your thoughts! As an old time VFR pilot I used to think the “straight in approach” guys were jerks. That is until I started my instrument training. Then I learned some of the “whys” about other pilots and reasons for behavior I did not understand. Older and wiser, and maybe nicer works for me now. 😁 “There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old and bold pilots.😁
4:52 - I kind of like 'Fishfinder', haven't heard that one before... All of the pilots on the radio around here who sound 'Pro' say T-Cas
To emphasize what you and others here have said, I've realized that yielding is the ultimate method of controlling the situation. I do it while driving and flying. I used to be the guy who would grumble when another driver would encroach but now I just let it go. Because that's the most effective way of avoiding an accident.
As for "fish finder", I've referred to as the "scope", the "tablet" (since I have a portable receiver and iPad), and simply as "ADS-B". Of these, "scope" is probably the simplest and most generic.
Many years ago on my first cross-country solo I was entering the proper traffic pattern to land. I was doing my radio calls as I should, and I kept getting other pilots coming on the radio 2 mile straight in 5 miles straight in. I did a couple 360's, but then I just finally announced leaving the area. Went and flew around for a while and came back when the pattern was empty. That was probably a great experience for me to become the 360 guy. I have no problem waiting for others, I like being alive.
I love this because it reinforces why I always announce my runway crossings at non-towered fields. Unfortunately, being based at a non-towered field, I have witnessed plenty of pilots who do not. As far as the "Fish Finder" I just say "I see your ADS-B target".
100 % agree !!!
Alternative terms for "Fish Finder":
"Traffic Awareness".
In the UK, we use the term "Electronic Conspicuity" which really refers to the transmit sides of things, but could potentially apply to the receiving end of the system, too.
I have been known to announce, "Not visual with the traffic, but have them on Traffic Awareness and will... [take appropriate mitigating action]". It's probably not official ICAO RT phraseology, but it is good enough to get the message across. I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the UK use the term, "fish finder".
Best video ever. Well said, Bryan. 👍👍
Great video Bryan. Just one thought. There is value in the 'right of way' rules in the sense that everyone 'should' know what the other person 'should' do. I realize there are a lot of caveats. But the point is that if both pilots ignore the rules and simultaneously yield, or start doing something unexpected like 360s, a conflict might arise that should not have, if the 'stand-on' craft 'stood-on', and the 'give-way' craft, gave-way. This is an extremely important principle in marine operations. But of course, the consequences in the air are more dire so communication is key. I'm just saying unexpected actions by both pilots might create a situation.
I also liked the Cirrus "10-4" along with the Fish Finder comment.
RE: Fish Finder. Usually, if I don’t see them out the window, I don’t talk about seeing them on ADS-B. Sometimes, I’ll say something like, “I see you on the screen but not out the window.” 1000x Yes on 360’s, though they can be tough on passengers - the fact that we have to maneuver to avoid a collision and death is disconcerting, and the maneuver itself can upset the tummies of those who are worried.
I love this!
You both did the right thing and it ended well.
Dude, I was almost convinced that this wasn't a comedy video until your "fish finder" rant. That's comedic irony gold! 😂
One of your best videos. You did it right. I try to do the same, especially giving away to turbine aircraft who are on an approach. Oh, and Fish Finder? I agree. I say "I have you on the display".
I'm a new pilot with just over 100 hours (60 years old). I've already had 3 similar situations, all at my local small untowered airport. The first time happened on my second solo flight. I was 2nd in line to land (into the wind) when a 3rd pilot announced final on same runway, opposite direction after we both had made our calls. We both diverted and let the third guy have his way. Second time (still a student pilot) I was on short final when someone pulled onto the runway back-taxiing toward me. I had made my calls properly. He never made any calls. I had to divert off center and do a go around. Third time was on my check-ride. I made my call on left base for landing and a lady pilot announced she was departing on the same runway. I could see her at the hold short line and I didn't know if she would roll out or not, so I diverted from my plan to turn final and radioed my change. Interestingly the DPE started yelling at me saying I could have completed the landing. I calmly told him no, it wasn't safe. He was so angry I thought I failed my check-ride. My advice; stay focused, stay calm, and don't let anyone influence you to take any risks, even if perhaps they are trying to test if they can rattle you. You are the PIC.
Note: Yes, I confirmed my radio was working correctly after each of those events. Cheers.
Yeah, when in doubt, yield. Same on the road.
Had to do a 360 and get out of the way of a guy in a twin who was talking but not listening. We were mid-field, he came barreling into the downwind at 160+ kts, almost hit us from behind.
Fairly new pilot here, I had a very close call in the pattern a few months ago and me doing a 360 would have made all the difference even if I technically did everything right. Sometimes you are dealing with student pilots on solos and they unintentionally put you in a dangerous position. This is solid advice!
Great message! In this one Brian with a y. I love the humorous videos but I also enjoyed the serious one. I'd be 360 guy of my airplane was faster lol I can be the flaps out and I'll just park here guy lol
YES Be the 360 guy. "Fishfinder" is the same thing for me, I keep wanting to respond and ask "wheres the carp today???". I was told once that in the plane: Visual spotted traffic counts and on-board radar traffic counts for a response; with anything else being a response of "Looking for traffic".
Hey good ADM, and better yet you both communicated your intentions! And all worked out in the end! It is called ADSB not a fish finder! Good job BrYan. 😁🛫
Thanks for sharing that experience and advice...I agree with the conservative approach. With all the training activities in NTX it is very common to have a full pattern on nice flying days making even controlled fields a handful at times.
Now I have to call it a fish finder. It's faster than "ADSB"!Sigggggggggh. On a serious note, I think your absolutely right. I've done lots of 360's and "S" turns at controlled airports for noise abatement. Why? To avoid the sound of 2 planes hitting each other! A very bad sound!
Control what you can is always the best way to go 😊. I do it all the time too.
Great stuff! And yes, we should ALL be "360 guy" but... and this is a BIG but... DON'T get into a politeness competition. The first to say "I'll do a 360 (etc)", the other should respect it and say "thanks".
We went fishing, we had a great day with alot of success. Thank goodness the boat had ADSB to help find the fish.
I like the fishfinder! Gonna use it😂
I'm with you Brian! Call me a 360 guy! With the high amount of idiots flying today, their lack of understanding safe flying, and correct procedures makes the airspace we fly in very dangerous. Just go fly for a couple of hours on any day and watch them come into any untowered airport will make you pull your hair out. They will come into a landing pattern with whatever is convenient for them. Doesn't matter if it is called out as a RH or LH traffic. They will make it up to suit their needs. Stay safe out their folks! Thanks for the content!
"Move aside and let the man go through." 😂
Getting my pilot's license after I already had my Captain's License (mariners' side) has helped the whole who is right and wrong. On the water the right of way is the same as the sky, but one other rule exist you are to avoid a collision at all costs. You can be not at fault but the powers that be will put fault on you for not doing everything you could to avoid the collision. in my eyes I am not in that big of a hurry to be on the ground, so I move right or wrong, but I didn't bend metal.
lol i remember being the 360 guy.... i was doing the monroe arrival into KSFB to get my controlled airspace endorsement in my sport license.... atc had us do like 12 360s to get the faster planes out of the way before letting us in lol
1: I tend to yield but are there situations we can recognize/anticipate where some type of yielding might be a problem? 2: “I’ve got you on ADS-B” is good. It’s not radar, it’s not sonar.
I say "I have you on ADSB" but I'm completely okay with that guy saying fish finder.
And when in doubt, 360. Sometimes I'll be the assertive pilot that will get in first, it all depends on the situation. Everyone doing 360s doesn't help usually, someone has to take the initiative. When is not really clear what I should do, then I wait out.
Just tell the other guys you’re going for the break get out of my way! Just kidding! BrYan you are becoming a forward thinking competent pilot. Evaluating your decisions prior to acting on them. This has the potential to lead you into many years of flying! This concept has worked for me for the last 50 years! 😁🛫
Bryan - something to consider; your radio calls (especially when taking the runway) are extremely fast and can be difficult to figure out what you just said. Consider slowing your calls just a little.
I was going to make the comment. Even the guy that was going to cross the runway was a fast talker on his initial call. I see (hear) this a lot. I understand the need to be concise and not clog up the airwaves but if I wish some people would slow it down a little.
Agree. I thought my video was sped up to 1.5 speed, so I had to check to see if it was on normal speed. He talks FAST!
The thing about right of way rules is that they only really work well if everybody has the exact same understanding of what they are. Since nobody has the exact same understanding of what they are, they never really work the way they seem to be intended. However, if everyone still has the same grasp of some basic rules, then they can still work well enough to avoid accidents. More maneuverable aircraft give way to less maneuverable aircraft. Someone that has a shot of seeing what's going on should give way to someone who can't possibly. Oh, and turn to the right to give way, and never to the left. One thing we agree on is: If you have a collision, it doesn't matter who was in the right.
Thank you for this and other videos, I really enjoy them. I agree with 360- can’t see downsides to it. Maybe playing devils advocate one downside may be doing it would be unexpected by other traffic, or getting in some else’s way accidentally, but clearly can be mitigated by over communicating.
I've called it a fish finder since the first time I heard someone else call it that and I knew immediately what they meant. Also, I don't care if other people like it or not ;)
I find it much more annoying that the King Air jump plane at our un-towered airport will take off or land with a tail wind just to save a few seconds of taxi time. And just like this situation that happened on your runway it can be VERY difficult to see another plane on the other end of a runway pointing toward you especially if there are things in the background that aren't green woods. I've witnessed a few conflicts that got too close to comfort with this stupid and unnecessary practice particularly since there are multiple aircraft at our field that don't have ADSB (J3's, ultralights, powered chutes...) There are a lot of jump centers here in Florida and it does seem like a common thread for those jump plane pilots to bully other pilots around (especially with student pilots in the pattern). I see slower traffic get bullied a lot in the pattern from the jump planes, my RV runs a pattern pretty quickly so it doesn't happen to me much but I'd 360 in a minute to avoid a conflict, can't say I won't start looking back for that conflict once I'm back on terra firma again 😁
My PPL instructor always said to fly as if ever other pilot is out to kill you. Ditto for tower controllers.
Giving WAY to other pilots does NOT make us wimps, it makes us more humble and in control of our situations. We can only control ourselves not other people.
My home airport is always quite busy with training. When returning I tend to stay quite high until I'm quite sure I can safely enter the airport environment. I'll do 360's all day long, but don't like doing them at TPA. If I'm going to be dilly-dallying a mile or two from the airport, I'd like to be high enough to glide in.
You are right on the yield always part, and wrong on the fish finder, that’s so much easier to say than anything else I ever fumbled with .
Hence forth I will refer to it as a fish finder.
A serious video! Oh my! Always like the comedy but a change up to serious is great.
Be a yield & 360 guy, you'll get to fly another day. My family prefers late over being right & dead.
Unless you have a midair from the aircraft behind you that wasn’t expecting you to reverse direction in the pattern.
@@thomasaltruda LOL, being a 360 person just means you are willing to delay your intentions to avoid conflict. If in the pattern you could extend the downwind or go around to alleviate the conflict.
@@DougBowman6he literally shoes tracks where he does 360s, sometimes two, lefts and rights in the same pattern.. I’m pretty sure he means actual 360s.
@@thomasaltruda I thought we were talking about the pattern. Yes, he flew some 360's to help with spacing. As PIC you do what you need to do to avoid a collision. S turns, a 360 or racetrack pattern depending on the situation and aircraft.
@@DougBowman6 idk.. 15,000+ hours, with a heavy emphasis in GA, I don’t think I ever had to perform a 360 in the traffic pattern at an uncontrolled field to avoid traffic.. Yes, I’ve don’t them when the tower asks for it, but all other times, I have been able to deconflict by slowing down, turning in short, going long, ect…
I’ve not flown in many years, but your attitude might be worth a video. By not fighting and getting mad, you mentally put yourself in a better position for the next hazard two minutes later. I remember an FAA safety thing I attended once, and there is a snowballing effect that bad decisions can have upon the chain of events that can end in an accident. It usually is a series of things that causes accidents, not just one element.
Welp…. No use me watching this one. 😂
Just saw your video and I applaud you for what you did. I'd rather be flying tomorrow instead of on a table, being examined by the coroner.
It’s making how big the sky is and how often people are on collision courses. Thank goodness for ForeFlight.
Great invention
Good job. Reason we need Traffic lights instead of hold short lines at intersections! lol