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Trailer Axle Flipping....What's the BIG Deal?
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- Опубликовано: 12 янв 2019
- This vintage 1982 Hi-Lo trailer came in leaning heavily to the driver's side due to a broken leaf spring. But on further analysis, the axle had been flipped at some time in its life and is upside down which does not help the suspension. So join me as I once again make a very simple job more complex.
Well done. By far the most instructive video on the internet. Very clear and informative. I'm subscribing.
Thank you very much! That's much higher praise than I deserve.
I’ve learned to be cautious when welding perches on trailer axles. If the wiring for the brakes happens to be touching that area inside the axle tube where you’ll be welding, it doesn’t end well. I’ve gone as far as using bailing wire for a fish tape and leave enough bailing wire to pull them back through when I’m done welding.
thats a good idea too
Thank you my friend. You bailed me out. It’s Saturday and everything is closed. Had to flip my axles for tire clearance and was wondering about the brakes. I am now a subscriber with a little more knowledge.
Thank you sir.
That's awesome!
Thanks for watching! :)
Awesome thank you for the video, good camera work and very informative!
Glad you liked it!
Done properly that's a really nice modification if you travel way back in the sticks or even to minimize dragging on parking lots, etc. I did one about ten years ago and am very happy with how it looks and pulls.
Right on! thanks for watching!
Love how you lay everything out and show step by step. Not to mention your unrest until this project is done right. Glad you made this video documentary. The next time I have a question about my axle setup, I'm loading my RV on a flatbed and dieselizing it out to Apache Junction for an inspection. : ) Seriously, thumbs up and really appreciated your effort into the explanations. I hope the customer knows how lucky he/she is to be able to have your service.
Thank you. And thank you for taking time to write such a kind comment!
Iam a Veteran of the same job!!! Time consuming but not difficult. Not sure if customer requested quality parts but try to use Dexter components. And Wet bolts. Most springs come with crappy nylon bushings, tap them out with the new brass bushing. Nylon dry bushings are junk. And DIYers paint the entire job with Rustoleum. Customer most likely didnt want higher labor charges. Great job!!
I'm not convinced Dexter is any better quality. I try my best to weigh quality work with cost to owner. This was a "project" trailer that came in for a simple solar panel install. The owner felt like it was leaning when being towed and this is what I found. Ideally the axle and all components should have been replaced and new tire rims, but that would cost more than the trailer that would receive minimal use. Thanks!
That was a simple but plain video to understand. Well done no weird details just straight to the point. Thank You P.S You have awesome friends that you should be very blessed.
Thank you.
Awesome Job!!! Well explained Sir....
Thank you!
I did a spring over conversion on my 07 Outback. Bought the kit from Dexter with New perches, shackles and equalizer. All with zerk fittings. Did it exactly like you did so I’m glad I did it right LoL. Good job.
Thank you!!
Nicely done ✅ thanks for sharing I learned a few things that I didn’t know
Thanks for watching!! :)
Really appreciate the post, this is good info!
Glad it was helpful!
The axle is supposed to bow upward slightly, straitens with weight applied.
Usually takes way longer when you’re filming! I never did this axle flip, but was looking at a trailer a few years back that needed this done. I admit, I would have not done this correctly due to lack of knowledge on this subject. I n9t know the correct way to do this. (By the way, your video just popped up. I was not searching the subject) Great video. Many will benefit from it, and my knowledge has increased. Thanks.
Thanks for posting this. I would have made the same mistake.
you are welcome. Thanks for watching!
Very great explanation... sounds doable with quality of teaching. 😊thank you. Nice welds
Thank you very much!
Thanks for the informative video. I learned quite a bit even though I've built several trailers and worked on a few more.
I'm gonna call that good too. Well done. Great to learn how to do this the right way. Happy trails!
:)
Given that the wheels are an old style not used any longer (as evidenced by the wheel lug pattern), I would have highly encouraged the owner to replace either the entire axle or at least the hub/drum if a modern style 5 on 4-1/2 is available to fit the old spindles.
You'd be surprised how little people want to spend on a $500 project trailer
@@AZExpert You shouldn't. be. LOL
Looks like I guessed correctly when hanging the new axles .I wasn't sure what direction the axles went but I figured wires out the back ...lol... looks like I don't have to swing them around. The old 3500lb idler axles only had a 1/4 inch long bead on 1 end diagonally from each other ...not all 4 corners just 1 corner diagonally. I realize there's no twisting force on these like a drive axle and when they make 1000s of axles it saves money and time , but for me when I put the new 5200lb brake axles on in place of these I ran beads I know are not going to ever fail ...lol... it's just like the hanger kits they sell that are identical for 2000-7000lb axles... I've seen those broken as well , so extra beef was added to all the mounting because who wants to crack something hitting a pothole on the road because big manufacturing companies do the minimum to save a few dollars on assemble line vs building it bullet proof .
You should have put new bump stops on the trailer now too. While the trailer was raised about 4”, the range of the springs did not change and the bump stops need to be lowered what you raised the trailer from the spring-over conversion.
That’s why the spring broke in the first place. Excessive travel.
I may have missed something but my question is about the crown on the axle. If you were moving the springs from the bottom to the top why were you having to do all that to the hubs. I get that someone had already moved the springs to the top but just did an axle rollover which would have put the crown pointing down. With you installing new perches that would have enabled you to set the crown back at the top as it should have been. Wouldn't the hubs be in the right position since the axle was upright again? Unless when they did that axle rollover they switched the hubs at that time which would mean you would then have to change them back. Nice informative video though.
I have always been of the opinion that if you remove U bolts from an axle, they should be replaced with new. Because torqueing tends to twist them a little, and removing the nuts when removing weakens the threads. Just a thought.
I have always heard that too. In researching it, it seems like "best" practice but no real hard facts stating it has to be done, other wise it would be true for all bolts. To my knowledge only torque to yield bolts require it and of course locking nuts and washers. Like all things, damaged hardware should be replaced but also not all owners are willing to spend $15 sometimes no matter what. Thanks!
Those straps on the leaf springs prevent the individual leaf's from rotating sideways and yes always, if only one strap, place them in the front!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for all the info. Now I know what to look for when looking at used trailers that have flipped axles.
I'm glad to hear it helped
I don't know how they are supposed to be on the older 80s stuff but, every trailer that had brakes that I'VE worked on has always had the magnets on the bottom. soo not sure if it's just your preference or what but that's what I've noticed.
Just a question, why couldn't you unbolt the hubs and rotate them 180 degrees. That would avoid welding new placement brackets.
I loved my old Hi-Lo when I owned it. It was a barn find and I paid a few hundred for it from a farmer. It was far from perfect but a very solid trouble free camper.
They are an interesting trailer for sure. Barn finds are the best!
Thanks for the video , I was going to do what your customer did but now I see why not to do it that way .the short shoe goes to the front
If done right it's not a problem. My 1988 Terry had axles flipped for 30 years no problems. Just replaced them last year, 2 new axles all new brakes etc. Good for another 30 years!
Use torpedo level, top and bottom for welding on perch.....check with measurements, but using level will guarantee axle is parallel to ground before you start, and new perch will match.
Thanks for the tip
you should have switched complete backing plate from right to left, because if you look at your brake shoes, you now have the primary and secondary shoes backwards. The shoe with the most brake pad material goes towards the rear of the trailer. It matters on a car brake system, would imagine it works on same principle as that. Are your trailer brakes locking up? good video tho
Thanks for watching!
The reason for the bow in the axle is because the axle tube is not very heavy for the load it’s carrying. Travel trailers are made as light as possible. Thinner axle tubes save weight.
Next time you see a semi trailer parked take a look at the axle. There’s no bow because it’s designed to hold 20,000 lbs each.
In a light trailer there is a few inches of axle that is between the springs and the tire. This space creates leverage on the center area of the axle. When you load your trailer the bow straightens out. If you flip the axle up side down the axle would bow even more creating a negative camber at the tire causing premature tire wear.
John VH 2019
You’re partly right
Very helpful for a goose neck horse trailer I have. Thanks
Thanks for watching! :)
Should you. Place a pad between the spring top and the fish plate to give the spring clearance?
Another great video!
Glad you like them!
Thanks. For the tips. Going flip my axle now
Good luck!!
@@AZExpert thanks. But after to many years of iron working I think I'll be bad. And half way to hell
Glad i saw this video before i flipped mine. Awesome!
Happy to help!
Greg James, I actually watched this video before flipping mine and was convinced to use the Dexter Over Under Conversion Kit: amzn.to/2T3tZIG
Let's you move the axle below the springs without messing with the camber. Worked out nice for me. This channel has been a good resource for me.
Hope I don't have to keep writing this over and over because of the ads. I have an axle I want to flip, (turn over) as well as put below the springs, from a 1969 Shasta camper trailer. The axle is 58 " from wheel to wheel. It has an upward angle right angle bend at each wheel 3.5" measured from the center of the square tube axle. I want to keep the brake adjustment and wiring in the correct places so I have unbolt in order to switch the wheels. I will weld a large washer so the axle will not slip on the springs. Is what I am proposing something that is feasible? The trailer is too low for a camper trailer or just as a general purpose trailer.
I like the term axle flip and it comes from when they didn't have a crown but spring over axle would likely be better wording.
I also prefer axle flip too.
I once used new hardware but needed to loosen a nut. You guessed it, it wouldn't give up without a fight. The rv parts supplier told me the U-bolt is designed to stretch the threads at full torque for safety.
I don't know much about it all, but I know a local suspension shops that makes u-bolts and they are put in a jig and bent for $5-10
AZ Expert, you did a very good job! Quick question for you , where did you find those new leaf springs?? I have the same hi lo trailer and having trouble finding replacement leaf springs for it.
I found a gold mine here.
Thank you!
Welcome!
I have a 1987 camper that I wanted to raise the ride height on a few years back. Axle flip wasn't really possible since it had a bow to it from the factory. However, I just welded on new spring perches. Worked great and didn't affect anything on the axle or springs
Mike Miller
They are designed to have an arch. If you put the springs on the top of the axle. Yes, you in fact DID (axle flip) it
Nice thorough job. So what your saying is the safest and most proper way to raise the trailer is, instead of flipping the axle, simply weld new perches on each end, on top of the axle, then mount the springs on top of the new perches? I'm thinking you also have to extend the spring mounts, both front and back?? Safety FIRST always. Happy travels
The spring mounts do not need to be extended as that distance does not change, only the the placement of the axle below the springs. Thanks!
Thumbs up 👍 good catch ✅
Can I ask why you didn't just roll the Axel and use the existing perches? Your brakes would have been in the correct position then. I don't see why you needed new perches.
I thought the same thing too and noticed the arch in the axle would have still been sagging down after I watched it a few times.
He explained all of that in the beginning.
If he did roll it over , the bow would be on top
Guess the previous axle flipper had never heard of camber. That trailer will now pull better than it has pulled since the axle flip was done. I occasionally add camber to axles that have lost their camber or never had any camber to begin with.
It's understandable when we call it an "axle flip" I just couldn't be responsible as a shop owner for not addressing the major issue. Thanks!
Awesome video
Thanks!
Primary and secondary shoes are now reversed. If they were reversed when the previous owner flipped the axle, you corrected the mistake. If not, you made a mistake when you rotated the backing plate without swapping the front and rear shoes.
He did exactly what he should have done. The wiring went out the back to the rear. Primary shoe was in the front. He even states which direction the wheel would rotate. His explanation is spot on.
Although the Hi-Lo trailers were a lot more aerodynamic and very well built, they were extremely heavy, for what u gained in less wind resistant u lost more in towing weight, plus very expensive!
The salesmen would not mention this, "I'll tell the truth a couple of different ways before I'll lie to u!"
Also because of the limitation in height and interior space they used smaller tires which wore out a lot quicker and rode very rough!
Great video on axal repair!
Very pricey too
Cool video. I'm think I'm gonna try diy axle rebound pads.
Please do!
Wow! Wish you help me with my 1965 Trotwood vintage trailer axle. So concerned about age and leafsprings! I use it as my Disaster Relief Medical Trailer. Thanks for info. You the Trailer Fixer Wisper! 👍👍👍
I'm happy you are keeping the vintage trailer alive. Thanks!
Turning the brake backing plate does that make any difference with what is to be the leading and trailing brake shoe? Maybe you rotated the axke to put the drums right?
Dumb question, could making longer shackles to raise it? I think it would mess with the swing radius of the shackles but idk.
On a trailer that is that old it is a good idea to replace the wiring that goes through the axle tube. They short out inside the tube.
Yes they rub inside tube and short out.I zip tie new wire on outside back.
If you overload an axle it will ruin the crown. By the time we replace axles at work, they have either no crown or an upside down crown.
that's serious overloading
Wonder if their breaking has improved now that they are right-side-up?
Yes, it did
Why didnt you just turn the axle around? Driver side becomes the passanger side, the wires would be on the back, perches still on top and bow up?
Are your drum brakes correct now? The large shoe should be in the rear, smaller in the front to keep them balanced. Larger rear shoes provides the most breaking force.
Great video.
Thanks!
Lmao they flipped a axle wo welding perches! They shouldn't play with stuff they have no idea what they're doing. Good video
What I mean is that can you flip drop axles so they are raised axles?
Thank you!!
You're welcome!
straight through axles have the same curve ? i am not flipping the axle i have replacing an axle and new springs to make caravan safe, just bought caravan from a negligent owner . im now regretting it as its a 1979 jayco caravan and parts are hard to obtain like original brakes , and axles and springs
So what are the pros and cons of doing an axle flip? I have a PJ Trailer with leaf spring under Axle and I've been thinking about flipping it. They come out of the dealership this way for a reason I suppose but when I look at the axles and leaf springs on a semi dump truck, the leaf springs are on top and to me it looks like it should be that way. So I'm thinking if 18-wheelers use it that way why don't these flatbed gooseneck trailers come like that..?
The pros are more ground clearance, while the cons are more ground clearance meaning the step up would be much greater. In general, the flip is prefered if you are doing more off-road RVing. Thanks!
I have a spare tire cover and duel propane tank cover for hilo. Both are made from fiberglass and in pretty good shape. If anyone wants them..
I have a 1998 EZ trailer single axle with no brakes. The axle is straight as far as I can tell. Can I flip it. I’ll use it for short distances and under 1k pounds .
So instead of unbolting the brakes and turning them over you're going to weld new purchase zone ?
Generally the arm the magnet is mounted to should be toward the front of the vehicle, and the brake adjustment slot on the bottom.
Thanks
You surprised me. You know your job.
thank you.
Really liked your video I have come back to this video four or five times. Do yo have a video for setting up 6500 pound slip leaf?
I do not but I am sure someone on youtube probably does
I got two of these trailer axles on my trailer 4 lug looks same
I just bought a 5x8 c&b utility trailer.
The previous owner had flipped the axle but didn't add new braketes or consider the camber, and I've just learned the proper way from you, thanks!!
I plan to flip it back , how would I know if anything is damaged?
trailers are pretty strong and if it tows straight you should be fine.
Just bought my first travel trailer with a dual axle. just a small 20ft camper, is there a way of increasing clearance without flipping an axel?
Wait a minute...its a cambered axle. Is it okay to have a reversed cambered axle? I thought you can only reverse flip an axle if it isn't cambered.
I wonder if they flipped the axle to put larger tires on, the ones that are on it don't look like they would fit if the axle was on the other way?
maybe
I want to attempt this on a 30ft 1982 double axle cattle trailer (gooseneck) so it can sit better for my 4x4 2018 F250. The truck sits really high and I don’t want to cut into, and modify, any of the metal on the actual frame of the trailer. Would you recommend the axle flip? Using a 99 2 wheel drive truck to pull it now and that truck still raises the trailer ever so slightly in the front end. And if I do this, should I replace the u-bolts and all? 82 barn find, was stored in a warehouse and it has a nice patina all over but I’m wondering if I should replace all of these parts or not.
yes I would recommend this to add height to the trailer, it's always good practice to replace the u bolts if you can get them easily
@@AZExpert Alrighty, appreciate the reply. Looks like I’ll be doing this today
Thanks again ✌🏼✌🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I gather you may not be for flipping axles, but what is your opinion on the use of a drop axle flipped for use as a lift axle? More specifically an axle rated heavy then the intended use and one that would see off road use often where the drop axle upside would clear better?
I think axle flips are great and most trailers should come with them standard. A drop axle must be mounted the way intended too, but if it's on leaf springs you can flip them just like a straight axle. Should give some good center clearance for sure. Good luck!
@@AZExpert Thank you for the reply, my axle in question is actually a custom built axle that was made using car hubs and thick tubing. All bolts are rated for 1000 pounds more then the capacity aswell
it makes a little bit higher
idk! could the drums be swapped to opposite sides? I've only been told to do this never tried so idk wtf I'm talking about, but I'm here to learn anyhow.
no, the axle would still be upside down
Did you not see the extremely uneven wear on the electro magnet, the drum is worn badly and needs to be renewed.
Thanks
I've seen this done before . Also those welds do matter seen those come loose because of bad welds and caused u bolts to come loose from play luckily no damage just a clanking noise customer came back for that
No doubt the welds do matter, but they are not handling a great deal of load or torque. The perch and the u-bolts do the real heavy lifting. Thanks!
@@AZExpert really like your videos keep up the good work I hope to be as educated as you one day everything looks so simple lol
I'm a little confused. Why not just spin the axle around, then swap the brakes from side to side. No need for new spring perches. Having the wires run out the front of the axle tube is a non issue, or could be mitigated by sealing the hole, or drilling a new hole on the rear, or am I missing something?
That could be done if we wanted to put the axle back on top of the leaf springs like they were originally. But the owner wanted to keep the axle lifted with the springs on top of the axle to increase ground clearance. This is why the new mounts are needed, otherwise the axle is upside down. Thanks
@@AZExpert Some of my mental gymnastics failed me. You are of course correct. To maintain the axle camber while under the springs... a new spring perch is needed. No way to get around that. Don't know why I didn't get that the first go around. Thanks for the response.
@@ShainAndrews no worries, I'm glad you could make sense of my confusing presentation. Thanks
It is always recommended to use new Ubolts and nuts, but great video overall.
Indeed, it is best practice to replace the u-bolts, but I know the owner was already spending more than he wanted too. Also, I do find myself wondering why u-bolts are one time torque bolts, but studs/lugs made nearly identically are never replaced no matter how many times they've been tightened. Part of me thinks there's a lot of CYOA from the axle manufacturer.
@@AZExpert U bolts bend when tightened. Even if only a small amount, they still mold themselves to the axle. Straight studs dont do that. And not all hardware is supposed to be reused. People just do it anyway. I doubt one reuse hurt at all. Just an FYI reminder.
I understand and I'm not a metallurgist or material scientist by any means, but the stress of tightening any bolt by its very nature stretches the metal at the threads even on straight bolts. I understanding replacing lock nuts and lock washers as one time use. I am not arguing and agree with you, these are just thoughts I have while turning wrenches. Maybe I should have put the effort into being an engineer. Thanks!
@@AZExpertI wasn't trying to start a debate, but there is a huge difference between U bolts and a standard straight bolt. Actually, metal stretching is not a major concern. And my previous statement was very poorly worded and I should have left that out. ASE1541 steel has a tensile strength of 150,000 psi. The true issue is that U bolts are made with rolled threads and not cut threads. Rolled threads distort when torqued. Cut threads do not. Once rolled threads have been distorted, they can never be removed and reinstalled to hold proper torque. In reality, they are single use threads. U bolts can be retorqued as long as they are not loosened to do so. That is because you are simply moving the nut up to new threads. But once removed, the threads are permanently damaged. This is not the case with a multi use bolt or lug with cut threads made of the proper grade and torqued to proper spec. I confirmed this information with a mechanical engineer as well as a technical rep from a major spring manufacturer. They also said loose U bolts are the #1 cause of broken springs. So, I change my previous statement. In this case, one reuse can hurt. And this is one of those situations where not finishing the job with proper hardware could be the cause of future issues.
thecatsfan
I’ve reused u-bolts many times with no ill affects. The ones that tend to brake are the shackles. Seen that MANY times. And no, u-bolt threads do NOT distort when torqued 😂🤦♂️I’ll let you figure out why😂🤦♂️Your book learning(?) doesn’t cross over into real life scenarios.
Tank you now I know witch is witch
Would there be a problem flipping the axle on a 6x10 utility trailer to haul maybe a 1500 pound polaris ranger? I need more clearance hauling it off road down some pretty bad trails. Looks like a simple flip what am I missing?
Flipping the axle does not affect the weight rating of the axle or trailer. Often the tires are the weak spot so flipping axles gives more clearance for bigger/stronger tires too...which give even more road clearance...very win-win! It is simple you are not missing anything. Thanks!
@@AZExpert Thanks! I'll do it tomorrow.
The fail is when new purchases are not welded on. Never change the upward bow of the axle. I want to mount shocks and go with 16” rims from 15” and the tow vehicle height needs to be level also
What would u charge to do an axle flip on a Lowe’s small 3.5x5 utility trailer?
Well that's gonna dog track .....joking...great video man
Thank you.
What is the reason for flipping the axle? Is it to change the ride height of the trailer?
Yes it increases the ground clearance. Thanks
The brake wires are connected to any color wire or how it works
The brakes are electric magnets. Ground goes to one lead and the other lead will go to the brake power lead...ususally the "blue" lead at the trailer connection. They are not polarity sensitive or directional. Thanks!
OK, here's a dumb question. Why not spin the axle 180 degrees so the perches are on top, then mount your springs on top of the perches? (I can hear the laughter already...)
No laughter here. The axle is bowed and the bow should be higher in the middle. Spinning it 180 puts the bow upside down which is what happened to this trailer. The bow is part of a preload on the axle when weight is placed on the trailer it's trying to straighten the axle. Upside down the weight is trying to further bend the axle not fight the weight. It can also put the hubs and tires out of caster. It may not be the end of the world on this small trailer but large trailers are very hard on the axles. Thanks!
@@AZExpert Learned a lot on this one, but it's not caster it's camber. Caster relates to ball joints and steering. Camber is the tilting in or out at the top of the wheel. Positive camber is out, negative camber is in, plumb is 0 kinda sorta.
never done it, but couldn't you just use the old perch by just rotating the axle?
not to flip the axle
Technically Don't have to rotate the brakes since they are electric and not hydraulic they don't have to be blead and the wheel still has the same rotation direction.
Thanks
Sad that so many RV owners still call this an "axle flip" when really it's a "spring over axle" conversion. Of course, the trailer did come to you with an "axle flip"...
What's the difference
what were the shackle linkages for. doesnt look like you put them back in
I'm sure I connected everything that was needed. Thanks!
@@AZExpert im tring to do what you did but my set up didnt have the shackles. i wonder why.
i feel like its barely hanging on to those safety jacks
Safety is number one, ignore my scars
Bought one need to move it no axles or tounge
So the spring was broken due to the axle flip? That's how it sounds, but not really clear.
I dont think so. It was likely damaged from hitting a bump too hard. The trailer was leaning and that's when I discovered the axle flip. Thanks for watching
That makes perfect sense, thanks. I had a spring break on an old camp trailer I had from hitting a pot hole (best I could tell). New springs fixed it right up.
Trailers with Leaf Springs are inferior to Torsion Axles....