Just like with the Disney Princesses, if you only consider a woman strong when she's throwing her own punches, then you're still placing higher value on traditionally masculine definitions of strength and deriding things like kindness and compassion, traditionally feminine qualities. The point is a woman should be allowed to be ANYTHING without having her value be questioned.
You should examine the female Disney characters who AREN’T considered “Disney Princesses,” ie Megara, Nala, Esmeralda, Vanelope, Kida, Jane, Alice, etc.
Rua O'Neill right? Nala and Kida are princesses in their world, Megara gets with a GOD. Megara is so overlooked, as well as Hercules and her’s relationship which has some real ups and downs.
@@methos1999 Good question! We had a family friend who guided and helped me with most of the "boy stuff" troubles I had growing up. He sadly passed away about 8 years ago from a lung disease when I was 16. But I treasure my memories with him.
I feel that Cinderella's criticism is an example of victim-blaming and the fact that so many people refuse to understand that some women are content with getting married and living that life. Feminism is accepting a woman's decisions and not passing judgment because we think its wrong and archaic. It's wrong if it's not her choice and alright if it is her choice. She chooses to leave with the Prince. I feel like we should stop demeaning a woman for choosing love or not being assertive. Just because she doesn't actively try to escape her situation doesn't mean she's weak. In fact, to be so positive and good and kind despite the ill-treatment is strength of a different kind. The trauma of losing two loving parents is unbearable for so many people and the fact that she lives her best self despite so many people considering her of no worth is remarkable. The ball night is heartbreaking because when the stepsisters tear her dress, its a moment her helplessness breaks through the optimism she has as a defense-mechanism. Its a moment even she can't find good in.
Also, Cinderella wasn't just saved by her Prince. She was saved by her Fairy Godmother first and foremost - and that was done because she wanted to go to the ball. Not because she wanted a man. People like to get incredibly reductive about Cinderella in their attempt to make her fit the "Demure girl saved by a prince!" But there's a lot that happens in the story beyond just her falling in love.
There are many angles now when we all look back these characters; so glad to see someone has a healthy understanding in seeing the other view on this topic
@@zelamorre1126 Exactly How is a woman saving another woman not feminist? Especially because we live in a world where female solidarity is rare. Good thing its getting better to an extent.
I've always thought that calling an early Disney princess anti feminist is a type of victim blaming those characters are restricted and oppressed by their culture, time and social status (all Cinderella, Snow White and Aurora despite being princesses grow up in poverty) the only thing under their control is their own mind so they deside to be optimistic and must important kind even to those who are treated worse than them. I hate how society continues to blame abused women for their situation.
Why is it that every time a princess is kind, optimistic, or hopeful, she's considered weak? Being rebellious and independent doesn't automatically make them better.
Because unfortunately, we live in a society where kindness is considered weakness and being aggressive is considered strength. Snow White's kindness was what inspired the Huntsman, the animals and the Dwarfs to protect her. Cinderella's faith got her through the abuse she was trapped in. And the whole premise of Sleeping Beauty is women looking out for one another. The 3 good fairies gave up 16 years of their lives and put themselves in harms way to save not only Aurora but Phillip too.
Because modern society views those attributes as weak. It's not fashionable to be kind, compassionate, or to eschew violence and try to help people get along.
*Please talk about close platonic relationships between women and men in film and television and the pressure inflicted on them to have a romantic relationship instead!* Examples: Natasha and Steve from the MCU, Morgan and Garcia from Criminal Minds, Ellie and Paul from The half of it, etc. How society views platonic relationships as just a building step for a romantic relationship instead, and somewhat forces us to view them as such to the point we can even start to confuse our own feelings when we're faced with similar situations and believe we're ~in love~ with the other person. Like, yes we love them but not in that way.
Yes, please, although romantic relationships tend to be more emphasised in the media, platonic friendships can be just as rewarding and impactful for both parties! ☺️♥️
They even alluded to it in will and grace and he's gay. Stabler and Olivia in SVU even though he's married. So many ensemble shows (friends, how i met your mother, the office) pairs off everyone to everyone and it's gross. Murphy brown and her friend Frank were a good example of truly platonic friends.
I keep wanting to reference Little Women."Just because my dream is different than yours doesn't mean, it is any less important." Not all women have to act or look more manly in order to be feminist.
Literally all my characters are feminine (with some soft butches here and there), and I would like to say they're strong. They can fight for themselves, they can stand up for themselves, and they help out each other. I have a squad of five girl characters (in a possible sequel six), running around in an unfamiliar world, and I can count the male throwaway characters that serve even the slightest inkling of importance to the plot on one (or both) of my hands. It's really female dominated. In another story, the squad consists of three girls and two boys. I'm pretty sure the girls save their weak butts more often than the other way around. (Sorry for the long rant! I'm just really passionate about them, and how I wish to show that femininity =/= weakness, and how I want to express my feminist ideals.)
Disney princesses may all be different than each other. Some are feminine, others tomboyish, but one thing they all have in common, is they are all kind. Most movies today promote arrogance, bitchiness as strong character traits, but I am atleast happy that Disney movies still teach us all to be fair and kind. :)
I was a boy. They were two girls. Can I make it any more obvious? I am the ULTIMATE LOVER on this platform. Don't enter my ch*nnel if you are not above a certain age, dear hear
@@thetrfh Even actual superheroes who got their powers later in life are more interesting because "with great power comes great responsibility". If a character was already born perfect, what's even the point of watching their non-journey?
Absolutely agree!! The original movie was uplifting in tone and story, celebrating the bravery, loyalty, and strength in her story-not to mention the amazing soundtrack that allowed the film to soar. This new live-action version is none of that to say the least. So many unnecessary elements were added at the cost of losing the essential encouraging and inspiring message of Mulan’s journey.
Yeah. I relate a lot to the animated Mulan but couldn't really feel connected to this one, at least in the movie. There seems to be a bit more depth in the books.
*Does anyone else notice that Disney Princesses are almost always directly affected by their relationship with their parents?* Whether it’s the wicked stepmother, the dead mom, the overbearing father, the mystical grandmother, or the cooky dad. It’s usually the most important person in their life (or a person that motivates them the most).
As a man who connected with princesses as a kid, I refuse to describe them by their flaws. Society did not force me to like them (in fact, did the opposite) and I identified with them through qualities that were absent in the male characters I was "supposed" to like instead
This is the sort of statement that makes me very concerned that boys actually need more and better role models. Examples of men who are thoughtful, compassionate and don't beat their chests seem to be in short supply. We can identify examples of toxic masculinity all day long, but at some point we need to replace it with something else.
@@methos1999 Literally all superheroes have those traits , like Superman who is a positive kind hearted alien with amazing strength but unable to kill anybody regardless. Yes he uses brute force course you can't stop a murderer or a plane about to crush with just kind words and flowers. Spider-Man and most comic heroes are like that. The same in animes like Dragon Ball. American teenage oriented cartoons lack those types of characters tho
I never understood why Disney princesses were seen as a bad role models for young girls, as a kid I only saw women who were nice and had their own personalities, they were never really afraid of being who they were. They needed help once in a while, but everybody needs help from time to time men and women.
People who criticize them mostly are stuck to thinking they are the first 3 princesses (who have their own positive qualities but are more passive and not as relatable which makes sense since they were from 30s and 50s and meant to be idealized fairytale characters not written like modern leads). And not really thinking of what happens in the other films well enough, like how Ariel wanted to be human before meeting Eric and saving him how it’s the villain who says she should loose her voice but Eric isn’t even interested in her without her voice, and her and fighting Ursula which caused her to kill her minions. Critics just focus on her loosing her voice and Eric killing the villain. Enchanted writers seemed to think Disney princesses this way too with how big deal they made of Giselle fighting the villain.
They were kind hearted women who deserved a happily ever after. Especially Cinderella who'd suffered terrible abuse but stayed hopeful which is it's own kind of valuable strength
Cinderella has one of the most inherently sad but also inspiring stories in the Disney canon. The rampant victim-blaming directed at her character needs to stop.
Trina Q Rapunzel is great but she's not underrated, she's extremely popular. One of the most popular, actually. Underrated are Merida, Tiana, Kida and Pocahontas.
Well the interesting part is trying to even define what is feminine or masculine. Like most would instinctively say being a strong protector is a masculine trait, but that's easily countered by the "mother bear" trope.
@@methos1999 I often think about that. Kindness is often seen as a feminine quality, but shouldn't everyone aspire to be kind? Strength is also commonly seen as masculine, but everyone is strong in their own way, feminine or masculine. I think concepts like femininity and masculinity are contradictory, harmful and just flat out idiotic. A character's personality and potential and likability shouldn't depend on their gender expression.
Genuinely surprised they didn’t explore how the “disneyfication” of existing stories have affected the cultures they come from I.e. Pocahontas, Moana, Jasmine, Tiana, Mulan, etc...
I love how there's a mixture of feminine princesses (Elsa, Snow White, Cinderella) with masqueline princesses (Merida, Anna, Ariel). These show that there's a mixture of Tomboy and Girly Girl in most of us! 💜👑
@@literaIIyshy well u specifically named Mulan and Tiana only as great role models (which they are) but by doing so ur specifically outlining the idea that to be the best princess role model they have to be like them, why not say all of them are? Each of them has special way of teaching kids to be empowering... But anyway u get my point
We must not forget that all these films are based on books! Disney changed a lot of those books to "fit in" with the younger audience. In stories about Cinderella there is even a version that one of the sisters cuts the leg to fit the shoe. These stories were in a different era, and there they sought to convey messages sharply to children. So it's a little funny to pass this on to Disney because they did not "invent" the same stories. It’s a lot of stories from different cultures and eras that have gone through a big change through Disney.
The original ending of Snow White had the Evil Queen arriving to Snow White's wedding only to be shown a pair of iron shoes that had been in fire for hours until they glowed red hot, and was subsequently forced to PUT THEM ON and dance until she DROPPED DEAD. Really, that was the original ending.
Disney didn’t invent those tropes, but they popularized them. More people are familiar with Disney’s The Little Mermaid than the eponymous fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen.
Is it just me, or does Disney act like girls who are traditionally masculine are better than traditionally feminine girls? There are different types of women out there; some are girly, some are tomboyish, and some are in between! P.S., Cinderella is my favorite.
I think there's some of the "I'm not like other girls" thing from Disney and the people who watch the movies. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't have the discussions about Ariel giving up her life for a man and Cinderella not reacting to her abusive family the same way and as frequently as we have today.
I’m not sure. Anna and Elsa are very feminine characters and they’re some of the most popular Disney characters. Moana was adventurous and sporty, but she still did everything in a skirt and a song in her heart.
Personally I think Belle, Rapunzel, Tiana, and Jasmine could be considered “girly” and are very popular. The OG princesses tend to have less agency in their movies which could be why some people are starting to turn on them (wether fair or not)
@@beccag2758 Yeah, you're right. I guess I should've been more articulate: Hollywood kind of acts like traditional feminity is inferior to traditional masculinity.
Growing up, these princesses were my role models. Starting from Cinderella and her optimistic attitude, belle and her wits, ariel with her curiosity, Mulan with her bravery, Tiana for her perseverance, rapunzel with her individuality, Elsa with her independence... They've made the girl I am today. They taught me that it's okay to like girly things and tomboy things at the same time. They taught me to treat others with kindness. They taught me to have a more positive outlook on life. They taught me to be me. And I will defend most of these girls till I die.
I feel that by shaming the earlier princesses for it being “stronger” and defeating their abusers singlehandedly is really shitty. Snow White and Aurora I will argue have minimal personality. But Cinderella definitely has one and so has every Princess after her. Cinderella can be a little snippy (like with Lucifer) but, overall, she’s kind to anyone who’s kind to her. She’s civil with her stepfamily because it’s a matter of survival, and she even says so to Bruno who’s in a similar situation with Lucifer. She’s intelligent and optimistic that, one day, she’ll be free of them. She didn’t want a man to save her, she wanted to rebel and enjoy a night out for once in her life because she was INVITED.
Agree with you but I'll help you out with Snow and Aurora. Snow White is resourceful, charismatic, and kind. She has no family yet she decides that she needs to fend for herself alone in the woods. When Snow is scared, she apologizes and gets back up again. Snow knows that nothing is free and cleans the house in exchange to stay the dwarves house. She is charismatic because she literally wins the trust of everyone in the movie. The huntsman decides not to kill her bc of her good nature, dwarves let her stay in their house bc she is motherly (which mothers don't get a lot of credit), and the birds offer to help snow bc she is kind. Aurora is elegant, a little rebellious, optimistic, educated. With her gorgeous locks, the way she speaks, and her mannerisms are the epitome of elegant. Rebellious bc when the fairies tell her not to go and meet strangers (which is good) Aurora has nobody to talk to and naturally disobeys the fairies. She is optimistic bc she yearns for an overall better life. Wanting to meet new people and dreams of a happily ever after. Aurora is educated bc the scene where she cries in her bed, there is a pile of books on her nightstand which shows that she must read a lot. She also has good virtues because when the fairies tell her that she is betrothed, basically marrying a man she doesn't know, she despises this and wants to marry the man who treats her well and she already knows.
I've always thought it unfair that Cinderella is lumped in with Snow White and Aurora as "regressive" princesses. Unlike Snow White and (especially) Aurora, Cinderella isn't primarily passive; instead, much like Anne of Green Gables, she uses her imagination to survive in the worst of circumstances. Through her active kindness, she creates her own support system. That's what I enjoy about her.
Ariel was the first rebellious Princess with attitude, Pocahontas and Jasmine the first independent, free-spirited, and outspoken ones. Belle the first intellectual and outspoken. Mulan, the first warrior. Without those five, we never would've gotten Elsa, Anna, Rapunzal, Tiana, or Moana. Merida is rebellious and a warrior, but she is no Mulan or Rapunzal, she didn't learn her lesson. I love how this video acknowledged that older princesses, like Cinderella had a quiet strength, resilience, and we should give them more credit, not hate them and femininity.
Mulan has always been my favorite Disney princess, bar none, because of what a relatable character she really is. On the surface level, she shares many qualities with many of us: she writes notes for what is essentially a type of test, she can lose track of time, she loves her family, she has a good heart, and she has her silly moments (like her trying to whip out the sword but ends up dropping it, or her attempt at spitting). But beyond that, we watch her go from accepting the status quo to going against it, even if her motivation is always someone else. At first, she wants to do what her society expects of her (get the matchmaker's approval, get married, and make her family proud), because she has been TAUGHT that that is all she is worth: to be a man's wife and mother to his sons. But it is never portrayed as a flaw; she has been taught to think of herself that way, and she struggles to accomplish that. Mulan begins to 'rebel' when she tries to beg the soldier from making her father fight in the war, even though women apparently are not allowed to speak in a man's presence. It snowballs from there, emerging naturally from the story in a way that never feels trite or forced. By the end, Mulan has gone completely against tradition and done a 'man's work' by fighting the Huns. And yet, it is this very break from tradition that saved the country. But what I find especially endearing is that she is always motivated by something outside herself. She steals her father's armor not just to 'prove she can do something right', but to save his life. She saves Shang because it is the right thing to do, not just because she has feelings for him. She warns him about the Huns even though he left her in the snow (which is better than killing her, but still), and she fights the Huns with no thought of gaining anything out of it. Mulan does it because it's the right thing to do, and someone has to do it, regardless of gender.
Jasmine is my favorite Disney princess. First of all, she's gorgeous and I was obsessed with her aesthetic as a kid (I think she'd be the most stunning of all the princesses if they were real people). She was also a great combination of feminine and tough: a glamorous, beautiful princess who is still independent-minded and won't let a man define her. This is why I don't understand why they tried so hard to make her "stronger" in the live-action version. Her most iconic line in the animated movie is "I am not a prize to be won." They didn't need to make her into Sultan to get the point across. Also, I get why they have been approaching these characters from a new angle in the last decade. But, personally, I feel like it gets a bit heavy-handed. It's very unsubtle, like they're screaming at us: "See, she's strong! She's smart!" I feel like the Disney Princess now is turning into a "not like the other girls" trope a bit. This character type has been complex and inspiring since the 90's. As a Millennial, I guarantee you that my generation picked up on Belle's intelligence, Jasmine's independence, Ariel's bravery, and Mulan's strength when we were kids and were inspired by it, without being hit over the head and without sacrificing their more traditionally feminine qualities.
I agree. Unfortunately feminism has pressured the image of the Disney princess into making a big deal about being 'strong and independent', rather than simply letting these qualities flourish. Women don't need feminism to 'make' us strong, we already are. p.s. Jasmine was my favourite growing up! I did love seeing a princess who was brown as well, that meant a lot to me.
On the last point about older Disney princesses embracing femininity, Accented Cinema does a great analysis of how the animated _Mulan_ does a much better job at Mulan's growth than the live action by having Mulan reject hyper masculinity and instead embrace feminity/use her wits to solve problems. It's a great video, I highly recommend you check it out! Sorry, I know this was off topic but I just had to share.
This is absolutely true. My nephew was OBSESSED with "Tangled" at about 3 years old and he was the most polite, empathetic, manner able child I had ever seen. He still showed interest in sports and other activities perceived as masculine but he adored "Tangled" and nearly exploded with happiness when my mother (his grandmother) bought it for him on DVD.
I like that you guys didn't discredit the older princesses. The problem that Disney always had was representation. You can't just promote one kind of woman because we're all so different and want different things. Nothing wrong with a dainty princess who wants the support of a man or a tomboyish princess who wants to do things on her own. Each one is valid.
I don't like when people bash the early/Renaissance Disney Princesses because the messages they give are just as feminist and important as the modern ones, only in a more traditional setting; Cinderella = kindness and perseverance even in the face of cruelty will win the hearts of those that matter Snow White = resourcefulness; make the best out of a bad situation and gain allies by being kind, but be cautious too, as not everyone is as good-hearted as you. Ariel = follow your heart; dont be afraid to make changes and take a new path in life, but don't give up the most important part of who you are (your voice), and never forget where you come from. Belle = the most obvious message, don't judge a book by its cover. but also, people can change for the better. Pocahontas = open your mind and heart to difference. people of different cultures and backgrounds are all just people, and their lifestyle and values are just as valid as yours
Like to add nobody changes for anything because you are what you are the Beast didn't change he adapted to being nicer because he knows it's the only way to lift his curse and technically he was never bad at least when he transformed because anyone would be bitter and angry if they were transformed into a beast simply for denying a possible shady stranger shelter (in some versions he was a literal child with common sense and was cursed anyway) so it took Belle to quell his mental pain and finally opened to ppl again. The real message of the movie is love can heal a wounded soul.
The trope of the Disney Princesses is evolving and is showing more types or ways to be a princess. In a couple of years we'll have princesses that will be the completely differents. Can wait to see what's next
17:22 Hear, hear! "Early Disney Princesses bad because they're traditionally feminine" is just attacking traditionally feminine character traits. They aren't above criticism, like how Sleeping Beauty fails the sexy lamp test, but that's different. (Sexy Lamp Test- Can you replace your female lead with a sexy lamp, and still have the movie make sense) Especially with Cinderella, though, it can turn into victim blaming. "Cinderella's a weak character because she wasn't strong enough to stop Lady Tremaine from abusing her." It's the same regressive logic as arguing that the only men who get sexually abused were too weak (read: "too feminine" or "not masculine enough") to have stopped it.
@@ClaudetteVioletta I mean, I'm always careful to use phrases like "traditionally feminine characteristics" instead of "femininity" to avoid the connotation that women are naturally that way or must be that way, but yes. I do come at it from a slightly different angle, though. (r/MensLib, which is like the healthy, pro-woman, pro-feminist version of MRA. I'd call Pop Culture Detective a good example) There's this trend in society where boy things are for everyone, while girl things are only for girls. For example, it's obviously fine that women started wearing pants, but if a man wears a skirt, he's looked down upon for being feminine. It's okay if a woman wants to go into science, but if a man wants to become a teacher, he's obviously a secret pedophile. With that second one, I would actually go so far as to claim that the wage gap can never be closed without accepting men in traditionally feminine careers (which not so coincidentally happened to be paid less) So the way I see the strong female character discussion is that we've equated "strong character" with "traditionally masculine character", so brash or active characters of both sexes are accepted. But while passive female characters are tacitly accepted, both they and especially passive male characters are looked down upon, because they don't meet that traditional masculine ideal.
I really think most of the criticism toward Disney Princess mythology is more reflective of the franchising of the characters than what we see in the movies or characters themselves, even if critics don't recognize it. Even "unfeminist" princesses like Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora display far more wit and spunk in their films than they're ever given credit for, but you wouldn't recognize that underneath all the toys and dolls that present their hair and dress colors as their most significant features.
Yes! Some (if not most) people who love to hate on them have never actually watched the movies, they just go on rambling about the idea they have of them!
Yes... Disney Princess franchise sucks with the whole "love can save the day" shit, ruinning the character repuration. Let's be real, the only one that depended of a man in the whole freakin movie was Aurora I would like the remake the franchise with some ther heroines (Esmeralda, Jane, Meg, Kids, Eilonwy, Giselle, Elena, maybe Alice or Wendy, hell even Anastasia now that she is part of Disney) with a message that all girls are strong, with a man or not. Reflecting how most of them got their happily ever after by thenselves, How we all need help, but at the same time teaching us to be ourselves, kind, brave, How to stay positive, being more than a pretty face, and give messages to everyone. How it's okey to make mistakes, being single, feel afarid, sad, and of course, reflecting the princess as they are un their movies and not only "I'm a pretty princesses that want a boy" no..Reflecting them like they are more than that. Disney hire me. Btw, sorry the shitty English. Reflecting is a word?
im glad you brought up the underlying sexism and misogyny with some peoples reasons for hating disney princesses. QUEENS WILL BE QUEENS WHETHER THEY WEAR A DRESS OR A WAR OUTFIT, HOLD A BROOM OR A SWORD!!! XX
We started with Damsels in Distress and went to adventurous minds who learned to solve their problems by using their wits it's sad we now live in the era of Disney Princesses Born Perfect who only need a single "awakening" moment to realize their true potential. The best way they implemented the "Merre Sue" type Princess was with Vanellope. Despite being the strongest racer and most powerful being in her universe, she still had to GRIND and re-Learn all the skills she's known all along before realizing how much of a badass she was.
In Frozen it took the entire movie for the Princesses to live up to their potential. And remember, the classics like Frozen matter more because they are more beloved and will be remembered!
I'm so glad that you didnt just crap on the classic princesses. Comparing them and judging them IS sexist.I dont see us overanalizing and comparing superheroes, or Aladdin vs Hercules vs Tarzan.
I'm with Maui. Animal companions are the defining feature of Disney princesses. Most of them have a companion. Snow and Aurora don't, but can still summon woodland creatures. And while Merida (and Kuzco) doesn't even have that, she still has the whole bear motif (and Kuzco has a llama motif), so her movie isn't devoid of animals. I guess what I'm saying is that most Disney princesses are either druids or rangers.
When I was little, my favorite Disney Princess was Cinderella. I would watch all the movies and would dress up whenever I could. But when I got older and whenever we talked about our favorite as a kid, people would always criticize and saw her as anti-feminist as she should have stood up to her stepmom and stepsisters. Eventually, I switched to Belle as we were both bookworms and longed for another life than the one our society told us to have as women. However, once again, people criticized as I switched again for more of the modern princess like Mulan and Elsa and I lied again and again. Even when I told people I liked Disney Princesses when I was younger, some shamed me as I “didn’t look“ like the type to have liked them. Eventually, I got tired of lying and having to reject my feminine traits for just only masculine. What I loved about Cinderella was not just her beautiful blue dress but the dream of a better life than the one that has been handed to you. To try to make the best out of hard times and be kind to others even when they don’t deserve it. Which meant a lot as the daughter of two immigrants. I loved Belle as I related to her in my preteen years as I craved knowledge but also carried the lesson of seeing people based on their character and not by their appearance. Which helped a lot as I got older. Mulan taught me to reject gender roles which helped me when I got to middle school and was being judged for loving “traditional boy things” like Star Wars and Marvel. And I related to Elsa when Frozen came out as we were both introverts, scared of who we are, and during Frozen 2, Into the Unknown made me relate as I was struggling through mental illness and came to accept who I was. All those princesses made me who I am and no princess is better or worse than the others as what they represented a time in my life when I needed them most. While in some aspects that I carry some masculine traits, Disney Princesses was my childhood and made me no longer afraid to own my femininity.
Some people think that an inherently girly, kind and empathetic female character is anti-feminist, but isn't that assumption itself anti-feminist? Nowadays it seems that women need to be inherently non-feminine to be viewed as feminist or feminist role models and that's just wrong on so many levels.
Feminism has made girls less human. If anything, women are less than empowered because they are told that they can never be their true selves in order to be taken seriously. So, basically, feminists have become misogynistic because they aspire to be like men instead of embracing what makes them a female
Kindness and empathy are often seen as a weakness, because they are not proactive, they don't provide protection or are useful as a weapon (outside of manipulation, but then you're not actually being kind), while simultaneously making you open and vulnerable. If for example you are forgiving and lenient with the person that tries to stab you in the back, they will stab you again the moment you turn around. Even when your kindness inspires them not to, that still makes your life completely dependent on their decision. In short, they are passive which to some people is enough of a sin in itself. These people don't hate these traits BECAUSE they are feminine, but rather because traits they consider a weakness in the first place are associated with femininity.
No it's not anti-feminist, it's anti-women and anti-individualistic. The idea that your mere existence as both female and kind holds back the advancement of other women is ludicrous and a big problem with both the incoherence and the group thinking SOME feminists like to apply. Incoherent because you can't claim to be a proponent of getting rid of gender stereotypes, but then say someone can't be (or can't be perceived) a certain way, because that is traditionally feminine. You're not separating these aspects from the gender you're just shifting the goalpost. Fighting gender stereotypes should be about letting people be who they are, not setting new limitations. The other problem is the group mentality, which basically states that as a woman you are part of the "sisterhood". Your actions and ideas reflect on feminism as a whole and thus must be presentable and in compliance with the image feminism tries to push. So if feminism says we want strong independent women who kick ass and are dominant and assertive, than that's all your allowed to embody. Little bit melodramatic but you get the point. 😄
Mr. Ice yes and that's honestly just sad. Imagine viewing being kind as a fucking weakness. Feminism used to be about both genders being equal and being who you want to be. Nowadays it seems more to be about empowering women above men and losing "typically" feminine character traits (who thought of associating kindness and empathy with a gender, wtf). Like, it's no wonder feminists are made fun of and being a feminist is considered almost a slur nowadays.
@@Piccadally "who thought of associating kindness and empathy with a gender, wtf" I think that originally came from where your gender stood historically. Depending on your role in society, in the family, in the marriage, in your workplace, as a mother, in your class certain traits were emphasized because they were seen as useful or appropriate for your standing. The virtues and vices you were taught were usually optimized to suit your role (at least from the standpoint of what was appropriate at the time). Keep in mind that a lot of the things we associate with femininity in general today were primarily meant for the upper class women: "Above all a princess strives for perfection", "It's not Lady-like to cuss", etc. This then spilled over to the other classes of women through romanticizing and craving aspects of the noble life. Modern takes on this would for example be: "Treating someone like a princess", "You don't ask a Ladys age", "She is a Queen". Even Disneys success with the princess brand depends strongly on the association with aspects of historical nobility, like luxury, wealth, beauty, grace, high social standing, glamour, ...
*I cried in the end THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To reject feminine qualities is anti- feminist. I've always been ultra feminine & "feminist" have always looked down on me & called me too weak or too kind or too sweet or girly so then I just ended up hanging with more guys & a few lady friends. And this in turn made me despise "those feminists" for the longest time, but in 2020 I've became okay with women's rights as they discus more issues in the black community & attractive feminine feminists such a Beyoncé & Meghan Markle (ect.). I am so happy this new feminine Black feminist movement is taking place!!!!!!!!!*
Feminism is about realizing that all people have equal worth. Anyone who uses it to make you feel bad for being girly is, pardon my French, just a bitch.
I thought the point of feminism is to make it so women don't have to be feminine if they don't want to and so they don't get shamed for being feminine if they don't want to.
Anti-feminists for me, are people who are shaming women for being who they are. Whether it be girly-girl or the assertive one or any kind of femininity.
I think it's worth noting that the reason every princess has at least one loyal animal companion is because animals are believed in many cultures to have excellent intuition and judgment of character. They can sense when someone is a dangerous threat, or when someone is pure and trustworthy. The princesses are the latter, therefore animals are drawn to them.
All of the disney princesses are great in their own rights. Thank you for saying great things about Cinderella, Snow White, and Aurora. I only wish that you touched on stuff like the the status of each princess, when the story is set, that kind of thing but then we'd be here forever.
Probably because there aren’t as many stories about being men trapped and having to be rescued by a woman than the inverse, since men aren’t allowed to be weak and helpless because they’ll be seen as unmanly (“You let a woman save you? Wimp!” 😂). Feminists don’t mind it because as I said, it’s rare when it happens to men in stories, so naturally the novelty of that is more appealing.
@@thephoenix3674 I think it’s because the damsel in distress is a stock trope. Sure, dudes can be in distress and rescued by women, but it’s a lot more common for women because sexism (women are perceived as weak and helpless without a man, and men are perceived as strong and don’t need a woman to save them).
I’ve seen something worst. Women in a bad situation get sympathized with (as they should) but man who are? Treated like jokes Except for Cinderella, she gets victim blamed which is complete bullshit
@@starrsmith3810 no, women are often not believed when trying to get put of an abusive relationship or reporting SA. Or they are blamed, alive or already dead.
im so glad the last point was brought up! On too many occasions are the first three princess scolded and seen as anti-feminist. To say hyper-feminine women are bad is sexist, they deserve just as much respect as the women who have more masculine qualities. Also it's very victim-blaming to shame snow white, cinderella or aurora when theyre all victims of abuse of some sort of way, the anger is never put into the people who actually harmed them? Aside from that, there's nothing wrong in showing kindness, softness and gentleness, all are good basis for anyone to shape themselves to be empathetic people in the future
Thank you! I have always loved ALL Disney Princesses. Every story has a moral and something we can learn from and every Disney Princess has admirable traits. I appreciate the portrayal of femininity that is still admirable. Our world is too focused on hyper masculine traits that ultimately can be detrimental to society as a whole, like being aggressive to the point of violent. I’d rather see a humble character portrayed as having a happy ending than an aggressive character who took their happy ending by force. Even Disney movies with male protagonists, like Quasimodo from Hunchback of Norte Dame, share a similar story arch and admirable traits described in this video. And having come from an abusive childhood myself, I think Disney Princesses gave me hope that one day I could escape my oppression and be the author to my own story.
The first movie I ever saw in a theater was sleeping beauty. At 50 years old I can still remember like yesterday. I've loved Disney Princesses every since.
Princess and The Frog is such a great movie, all the songs where lit, and the prince and princess are gorgeous. Just hated that they were frogs for half the movie.
I was hoping you'd make a video about this! Loved it! Each princess has something to offer, in general, each Disney era exemplifies different primary qualities for their princesses: Original trinity (Golden and Silver eras): Virtue and emotional resilience. These princesses (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora) radiate hope and sweetness to the people around them, and endure hardships with their kindness and optimism. They're more like muses than real people, inspiring us with their qualities. Renaissance: Personality and romantic agency. Romance is the central plot of their stories (except for Mulan), but these princesses choose the love life and partners they want, and are more proactive in their stories. They also have wishes and interests that makes them more relatable. Revival: Ambition and personal fulfillment. These princesses have goals and motivations not centered around romance, though most of them do get it in the end. They tend to be more interested in their career, discovering the world or fulfilling themselves as individuals. They have a blend of both traditional and modern qualities.
In defense of Aurora, everyones always ragging on her for being too invested in the prince and having no interest of her own. But to that I say, Phillip is too😂His charecter is just as much heavily relied upon his romantic interest as Auroras. they're both way overly invested and willing to make completley rash descions (like, I don't know, risking the saftey of their kingdom by regretting an aranged marriage that has been pledged for like 18 years THE DAY OF, possibly putting the kingdoms at war) for someone they just met because they're pretty. So, ya.
I think the difference is Phillip balances it out by being somewhat funny, a little over the top, etc etc whereas Aurora is just... a romantic. Plus, idk, I’d probably be more concerned about my whole life being a lie and meeting my real parents for the first time.
@@morganrakes4184 She was clearly upset about that too. Also, Aurora is sassy and goofy as well, it’s just that it’s easy to miss because she has so little screen-time.
I really appreciate how you delve Deep into the different Disney Princesses and how each of the next Disney Princesses releasef after the next one serve as the Segway for the next Princesses moving forward
It’s poker satire of the first 3 princesses and Ariel. If there is an Enchanted sequel I would want more commentary on modern Disney tropes of twist villains, live action remakes, the princesses fighting etc.
the trapped princess type shows how women have been oppressed, right? but the interesting thing is that usually the oppressor is another woman, usually jealous of the princess' looks. which means internalized sexism
Thank you for this! I hate it when people try to make me feel guilty for enjoying some of the earlier Disney princess movies as much as the more modern ones. They appeal to different parts of me. Also, Snow White has some legit scary ass scenes in it, with Snow White fleeing through the forest (I'm always wondering how much is real and how much is her fear and imagination running away from her), the evil queen's transformation, and the dwarves chasing the witch up a cliff and her almost crushing them. Then you really feel the emotion and sadness of the dwarves as they're mourning Snow White.
I want you to do an episode about Atlantis. A brilliant Disney movie that get super under looked. Kida is my favorite Disney Princess. She is fantastic.
Elsa: You can't marry a man you just met. Anna: You can when it's true love. Elsa: Actually as princess and heir you *Do* need my permission as Queen to marry.
@@normadgarmez7026 Anna: But I want... Elsa: And I want to sleep with '80s Tom Selleck instead of my husband but that's not gonna happen now is it? Anna: But you could... Elsa: Can't! Anna: Can't or won't? Elsa: Both! Either! Pick one!
@@georgeprchal3924 ...Did you mean "her"* instead of "he"* Also, bruh, do you *want* me to rattle of a huge list of old royalty who adopted an heir OR...have an ''apprentice'' be an heir instead of a child?
@@MrIce-tl7wo She called herself Hua Jun. In the original animated version she was Fa Mulan. They changed her last name to Hua, because in The Ballad of Mulan her full name is Hua Mulan.
Thank you for including Elena of Avalor in this! Both she and Sofia from Sofia the First get overlooked by the larger Disney fandom since they’re often seen as “the preschool spinoff princesses,” but they’re both really wonderful characters from two great all-ages shows. Sofia displays a mix of classic and modern princess traits in that she’s as adventurous and brave as she is humble, inquisitive and compassionate. Elena is of the modern princess mold through and through, and her entire series is about her balancing her wants and responsibilities as a young leader. In both series, romantic love is a subplot element designated to the supporting cast, and platonic/familial love is unquestionably the strongest force in both shows. Not to mention, both of them have a notably even balance of well-rounded female and male characters covering a surprisingly wide age spectrum, so that they live up to the “all-ages” label rather than being just for kids. TLDR: Elena of Avalor and Sofia the First are pretty neat, especially if you’re a Disney Princess fan!
tiana is often forgotten about and underrated but she was one of the only disney "princess" who had a working class job (we love a working woman) who showed us that you can achieve your career dreams (hers was to run her own restaurant) AND fall in love, ending up with both her dream job and a happy relationship. not to mention this movie was black representation "before it was cool". sometimes we forget that getting married or falling in love doesn't have to be the end of your independent life. girls shouldnt have to choose between career and marriage/family. you can choose to have both. and choosing family doesnt make you weak (you should have the choice to), and choosing career doesnt have to make you "a StRonG iNdEpenDeNt wOmAn" in the twisted 2010s disney princess way where to be strong you just cant have a man at all.
growing up with Disney princesses didn't make my want to wait to be saved or for happily ever after with some "prince" .. it just made me want to be kind and compassionate and try my best.. the claim that a girl should be more like a tomboy to be worth while that is the sexist idea.. totally agree with your take .. 👍🏻
the trapped princess - my biggest fear! Absolutely destructive idea. Robbed "of agency over their own lives"! hypnotising little girls with self-destructive patterns, horrible. Large analysis and descussion should be made with children after watching such cartoons. Despite how beautiful (ofc) the stories are. Good that such videos exist nowadays! Thank you.
You should do a short take on the Witch in the The Beauty and The Beast and how she was the villain, because she cursed an 11 year old child because he didn’t let a stranger into his home.
He saw Snow White, he knew what the fuck happened when you let strangers in you home with magic items. Also, why was he answering the door himself? Carson from Downton Abbey would have had someone killed for that.
Love it! I've long thought that a great topic for a sociology thesis would be to use Disney princesses as a lens to examine how women's roles in society have changed over the years, and this video is probably the closest I've seen to that thought being realized.
I love how they changed Anastasia in the cinderella sequels, sure she isn’t a princess but she isn’t the villains, the real villains are her mother and sister. I really like how she was shown as wanting to do/be something more then her normal lifestyle. She wants dot love someone, but her mother was very controlling of her
In the past, The Take did a great video on how we need to not victim-blame Cinderella. I'm surprised they didn't remind us of it or encourage those who haven't seen it to do so. They've referred to previous videos covering topics before.
@@katherinealvarez9216 real guy. I don't know about the lion. Turns out Richard didn't really care much about anything John did whilst he was crusading.
i often get flack for liking disney princesses - by people that don’t understand what they can represent positively. while disney is far from perfect, this video hit the nail on the head on why i love them!
even as i grow older i adore princesses. they give me hope and inspiration. not just for a prince or even for fighting, for empowering my dreams. they teach me to never give up on what i want and always treat people with kindness
Cinderella still managed to be nice after all the years if abuse and some people have the nerve to say she's weak? She may not be weak physically but she is mentally (I think) and emotionally
Moana is my personal favorite of all the Disney princess (even though she’s technically the daughter of the chief). She takes all the best aspects of previous characters like Tiana, Belle, Mulan, Anna and Elsa, and Rapunzel, while still being very heroic and unique.
You know that line from the Wreck It Ralph 2 trailer that had the whole internet buzzing for a few weeks? "Do people assume all your problems got solved because a big, strong man showed up?" And everyone was praising Disney for being able to poke fun at their sexist history. But, you guys! ***DO PEOPLE ASSUME*** This isn't making fun of those old movies or princesses, it's making fun of how viewers interpret them. The response to that line only served to prove it right.
I agree with this video so much! People nowadays discredit old disney princesses for not being "strong" and "tough", as if that's the only good qualities a woman can have. I don't think that "a man will save you" should be the takeaway from movies like snow white, cinderella and sleeping beauty. When I watch them, I take from it that those women were trying to be optimistic, kind, and good even when the world threw a huge pile of shit on them, and all odds were against them - which is very difficult to do. I find that very strong and inspiring.
Have people have forgotten that Ariel saved Eric 2 times? In fact, you can argue that if Ariel never saved Eric the 2nd time, let alone kill Floatsem and Jetsem, Ursula would've gotten pissed off, grown big, and Eric wouldn't be able to deliver the final blow.
Touché! 😂 Also, I would tell Ariel this: *”Look at Russia. On the one hand, they created balalaikas, Matryoshka dolls, and catchy folk songs such as “Katyusha” and “Valenki”. On the other hand, they created anti-Jewish pogroms, which caused thousands of Jews to leave their homes after the Cossacks burned down their shtetls and killed their families.”*
To the people saying that "Cinderella didn't want the prince, she wanted a night out," THE BALL WAS FOR SCOUTING BRIDES. If Cinderella were to marry the prince she would have the means and power to leave her abusive family and in the original fairytale, the Prince avenges her by having crows attack her step family. She didn't just want a man not did she just want a party. She wanted protection from the people who hurt her and going to the ball would offer a shot at that.
I'm changing the subject, but I really wanted to ask that you make a take on the TV series Cobra Kai. There is two thing I really want you to analyse. The first is the theme of bullying who is superbly exposed in that series by presenting adult bullying vs teenage bullying. The second would be about the myth of martial art that is somewhat harmful. While I was a teenager, I learned karate for the same reason that is express in the show, but one of the first thing you learn in martial art is that it is NOT the great equalizer. You will NOT be able to face off against multiple opponent, somebody with a weapon or somebody who is much bigger or stronger than you and come out on top. Martial art is part of self defense, but it's only a tiny fraction of it. Self defense is about deescalation of conflict and survival. It can help with bullying though, by providing a sense of community and building up self confidence, which it is also express in the show. Anyway, I don't want to make that post to long, but I feel that it would be a great take on a series that is gaining popularity. Also, for the record, I really enjoyed Cobra Kai as an art of fiction, but a lot of MC Dojo take advantage of those myths and I think It would be good to call them out here.
Can I just say this about Cinderella... she's a Mexican icon. 🇲🇽 Think about it: - had her land taken from her - endures some messed up scenarios - not against manual labor - optimistic and holding on to dreams - just ask for one night of partying to blow off steam - not gonna turn down a romantic relationship - gets ahead through kindness, connections and resourcefulness Thesis: There's a reason the Cinderella dress is popular in Quinceañeras. For Mexican Americans, we're all Cinderellas holding on to dreams when everyone else has given up or dismissed us. And we're not afraid to run in glass shoes... it's not the first time we've stepped on sharp objects barefooted.
i was drawn to mulan as a kid because she was my only source of representation in media - for once I saw myself reflected and included in a grander social narrative
Just like with the Disney Princesses, if you only consider a woman strong when she's throwing her own punches, then you're still placing higher value on traditionally masculine definitions of strength and deriding things like kindness and compassion, traditionally feminine qualities. The point is a woman should be allowed to be ANYTHING without having her value be questioned.
Yes don't tell me I can't play football, but don't tell me I can't be a cheerleader either.
@@lstarsabb Actually, I do want to question the use of cheerleading.
"A woman should be allowed to be anything" I mean, I get what you mean, but if I take your sentence literally, well this would become questionnable.
THANK YOU
@@lstarsabb Encouragement. Plus cheerleading is a sport on its own and has its own competitions.
You should examine the female Disney characters who AREN’T considered “Disney Princesses,” ie Megara, Nala, Esmeralda, Vanelope, Kida, Jane, Alice, etc.
@g7dmother •}:{• Me too
I've decided that Disney Princess = main female character in a disney animated film, so fuck yes they're all princesses!
Rua O'Neill right? Nala and Kida are princesses in their world, Megara gets with a GOD. Megara is so overlooked, as well as Hercules and her’s relationship which has some real ups and downs.
Star Butterfly
"Don't forget Eilonwy," the sad nerds all whisper
As a young man, raised by a single Mom and my sister, who grew up watching these Disney Princess Movies, it really helped open up my eyes.
@Manophere. com You should see a doctor. You sound like you had a stroke.
Did you have any positive male role models? Was that ever an issue for you?
@@methos1999 Good question! We had a family friend who guided and helped me with most of the "boy stuff" troubles I had growing up. He sadly passed away about 8 years ago from a lung disease when I was 16. But I treasure my memories with him.
@@Jet-Jots ah i’m sorry to hear about your loss. i’m happy you managed to learn some things by him though
I feel that Cinderella's criticism is an example of victim-blaming and the fact that so many people refuse to understand that some women are content with getting married and living that life. Feminism is accepting a woman's decisions and not passing judgment because we think its wrong and archaic. It's wrong if it's not her choice and alright if it is her choice.
She chooses to leave with the Prince. I feel like we should stop demeaning a woman for choosing love or not being assertive. Just because she doesn't actively try to escape her situation doesn't mean she's weak. In fact, to be so positive and good and kind despite the ill-treatment is strength of a different kind. The trauma of losing two loving parents is unbearable for so many people and the fact that she lives her best self despite so many people considering her of no worth is remarkable. The ball night is heartbreaking because when the stepsisters tear her dress, its a moment her helplessness breaks through the optimism she has as a defense-mechanism. Its a moment even she can't find good in.
They have a video on exactly this! Check it out 🙌
@@Fonka3 Really? I must have missed it.
Also, Cinderella wasn't just saved by her Prince. She was saved by her Fairy Godmother first and foremost - and that was done because she wanted to go to the ball. Not because she wanted a man. People like to get incredibly reductive about Cinderella in their attempt to make her fit the "Demure girl saved by a prince!" But there's a lot that happens in the story beyond just her falling in love.
There are many angles now when we all look back these characters; so glad to see someone has a healthy understanding in seeing the other view on this topic
@@zelamorre1126 Exactly How is a woman saving another woman not feminist? Especially because we live in a world where female solidarity is rare. Good thing its getting better to an extent.
In all fairness, Cinderella never asked for a prince. All she wanted was a night out.
YES THANK YOU.
YES! She wanted a break from her stressful and mentally toxic life. The prince was literally the bonus of it all!
Haha so true
the girl didn't even knew she danced with the prince!!! she founded out later!!
thank you
I've always thought that calling an early Disney princess anti feminist is a type of victim blaming those characters are restricted and oppressed by their culture, time and social status (all Cinderella, Snow White and Aurora despite being princesses grow up in poverty) the only thing under their control is their own mind so they deside to be optimistic and must important kind even to those who are treated worse than them. I hate how society continues to blame abused women for their situation.
Aurora was perfectly happy living in the woods.
Cinderella just wanted to go to a party.
Snow White was a victim of unsuccessful filicide.
I don't blame them for their situations. I just find them boring.
THANK YOU.
kshamwhizzle and not giving Gaston the time of day. What a queen 👑
@@georgeprchal3924 Isn't she technically the beneficiary of the filicide being unsuccessful?
Why is it that every time a princess is kind, optimistic, or hopeful, she's considered weak? Being rebellious and independent doesn't automatically make them better.
Because unfortunately, we live in a society where kindness is considered weakness and being aggressive is considered strength. Snow White's kindness was what inspired the Huntsman, the animals and the Dwarfs to protect her. Cinderella's faith got her through the abuse she was trapped in. And the whole premise of Sleeping Beauty is women looking out for one another. The 3 good fairies gave up 16 years of their lives and put themselves in harms way to save not only Aurora but Phillip too.
Because modern society views those attributes as weak. It's not fashionable to be kind, compassionate, or to eschew violence and try to help people get along.
Serai3
That’s easy for you to say.
You never been at Skid Row or a triage zone.
@@whathell6t ...says the mansplainer who has no clue what I've done in my life. Go home, Sparky, you're embarrassing yourself.
Serai3
Then correct me!
Have you actually visited Skid Row or a triage zone?
*Please talk about close platonic relationships between women and men in film and television and the pressure inflicted on them to have a romantic relationship instead!*
Examples: Natasha and Steve from the MCU, Morgan and Garcia from Criminal Minds, Ellie and Paul from The half of it, etc.
How society views platonic relationships as just a building step for a romantic relationship instead, and somewhat forces us to view them as such to the point we can even start to confuse our own feelings when we're faced with similar situations and believe we're ~in love~ with the other person. Like, yes we love them but not in that way.
Pretty please 😍
Yes, please, although romantic relationships tend to be more emphasised in the media, platonic friendships can be just as rewarding and impactful for both parties! ☺️♥️
They even alluded to it in will and grace and he's gay. Stabler and Olivia in SVU even though he's married. So many ensemble shows (friends, how i met your mother, the office) pairs off everyone to everyone and it's gross. Murphy brown and her friend Frank were a good example of truly platonic friends.
They did when analizing the bond between Joey and Phoebe from Friends ^^
@@alethehero5571 I want a more in depth video with different variations of it.
I keep wanting to reference Little Women."Just because my dream is different than yours doesn't mean, it is any less important." Not all women have to act or look more manly in order to be feminist.
Literally all my characters are feminine (with some soft butches here and there), and I would like to say they're strong. They can fight for themselves, they can stand up for themselves, and they help out each other. I have a squad of five girl characters (in a possible sequel six), running around in an unfamiliar world, and I can count the male throwaway characters that serve even the slightest inkling of importance to the plot on one (or both) of my hands. It's really female dominated. In another story, the squad consists of three girls and two boys. I'm pretty sure the girls save their weak butts more often than the other way around.
(Sorry for the long rant! I'm just really passionate about them, and how I wish to show that femininity =/= weakness, and how I want to express my feminist ideals.)
Disney princesses may all be different than each other. Some are feminine, others tomboyish, but one thing they all have in common, is they are all kind. Most movies today promote arrogance, bitchiness as strong character traits, but I am atleast happy that Disney movies still teach us all to be fair and kind. :)
Precisely.
I was a boy. They were two girls. Can I make it any more obvious? I am the ULTIMATE LOVER on this platform. Don't enter my ch*nnel if you are not above a certain age, dear hear
I disagree. Elsa, Anna, Merida and Moanna were kind of mean.
@@Guy-cb1oh standing up for yourself and not taking anyone's shit does not equal to being mean. Get your facts straight.
@Guy2015 Having an opinion and feeling real emotions (anger, sadness, frustration) doesn't make a person mean. It just makes them real.
Mulan was a Feminist Queen. They totally killed her character arc with the new movie .
Yep. They made her a bland Mary Sue.
@@thetrfh
Even actual superheroes who got their powers later in life are more interesting because "with great power comes great responsibility". If a character was already born perfect, what's even the point of watching their non-journey?
Absolutely agree!! The original movie was uplifting in tone and story, celebrating the bravery, loyalty, and strength in her story-not to mention the amazing soundtrack that allowed the film to soar. This new live-action version is none of that to say the least. So many unnecessary elements were added at the cost of losing the essential encouraging and inspiring message of Mulan’s journey.
Yeah. I relate a lot to the animated Mulan but couldn't really feel connected to this one, at least in the movie. There seems to be a bit more depth in the books.
And this new one has a lot whiter team behind it too. Just a huge shitshow
*Does anyone else notice that Disney Princesses are almost always directly affected by their relationship with their parents?*
Whether it’s the wicked stepmother, the dead mom, the overbearing father, the mystical grandmother, or the cooky dad. It’s usually the most important person in their life (or a person that motivates them the most).
Or how their usual the only child of their royal parents...
I've read enough history to know that that's a recipe for civil war later on.
Aren't we all though?
Wayward City Girl I came here to leave exactly that comment 😊
There was a student at my uni who wrote their dissection on how few Disney heros/heroines have both parents.
That's kind of how people work...
As a man who connected with princesses as a kid, I refuse to describe them by their flaws. Society did not force me to like them (in fact, did the opposite) and I identified with them through qualities that were absent in the male characters I was "supposed" to like instead
This is the sort of statement that makes me very concerned that boys actually need more and better role models. Examples of men who are thoughtful, compassionate and don't beat their chests seem to be in short supply.
We can identify examples of toxic masculinity all day long, but at some point we need to replace it with something else.
@@methos1999 This is why I love Steven, the protagonist of Steven Universe
I hope male audience will have a good role model like us girls tho.
Exactly. I know someone who said that the Princes were useless and the Princesses mattered more.
@@methos1999
Literally all superheroes have those traits , like Superman who is a positive kind hearted alien with amazing strength but unable to kill anybody regardless. Yes he uses brute force course you can't stop a murderer or a plane about to crush with just kind words and flowers.
Spider-Man and most comic heroes are like that. The same in animes like Dragon Ball. American teenage oriented cartoons lack those types of characters tho
I never understood why Disney princesses were seen as a bad role models for young girls, as a kid I only saw women who were nice and had their own personalities, they were never really afraid of being who they were. They needed help once in a while, but everybody needs help from time to time men and women.
People who criticize them mostly are stuck to thinking they are the first 3 princesses (who have their own positive qualities but are more passive and not as relatable which makes sense since they were from 30s and 50s and meant to be idealized fairytale characters not written like modern leads). And not really thinking of what happens in the other films well enough, like how Ariel wanted to be human before meeting Eric and saving him how it’s the villain who says she should loose her voice but Eric isn’t even interested in her without her voice, and her and fighting Ursula which caused her to kill her minions. Critics just focus on her loosing her voice and Eric killing the villain. Enchanted writers seemed to think Disney princesses this way too with how big deal they made of Giselle fighting the villain.
They were kind hearted women who deserved a happily ever after. Especially Cinderella who'd suffered terrible abuse but stayed hopeful which is it's own kind of valuable strength
They are not that wrong tho
Yet yall get mad at Meilin Lee
Cinderella is an underrated badass and no one can tell me otherwise.
Cinderella 3 made her a complete badass!
Cinderella has one of the most inherently sad but also inspiring stories in the Disney canon. The rampant victim-blaming directed at her character needs to stop.
@@tariqthomas9090 exactly!!
Totally, kindness and patience are brilliant Virtues to have, and Cinderella definitely had both of these in order to achieve her dreams! 💛
She may not carry a sword, but mentally she’s stronger than most give her credit for.
“Let Your Power Shine.” - Rapunzel
Yes, words of wisdom from Rapunzel, another underrated Disney Princess! 👸👑💕
@@trinaq I think so too.
Mandy Moore, the greatest of all Disney princesses.
Trina Q Rapunzel is great but she's not underrated, she's extremely popular. One of the most popular, actually.
Underrated are Merida, Tiana, Kida and Pocahontas.
Say it with me : femininity is not bad. Masculinity is not bad.
Feminity is not Bad.
Masculinity is not Bad.
Well the interesting part is trying to even define what is feminine or masculine. Like most would instinctively say being a strong protector is a masculine trait, but that's easily countered by the "mother bear" trope.
@@methos1999 I often think about that. Kindness is often seen as a feminine quality, but shouldn't everyone aspire to be kind? Strength is also commonly seen as masculine, but everyone is strong in their own way, feminine or masculine. I think concepts like femininity and masculinity are contradictory, harmful and just flat out idiotic. A character's personality and potential and likability shouldn't depend on their gender expression.
They're both not bad. And it's okay for both genders to have either or both.
@Ruby Hypatia exactly! I hate gender roles so much
Genuinely surprised they didn’t explore how the “disneyfication” of existing stories have affected the cultures they come from I.e. Pocahontas, Moana, Jasmine, Tiana, Mulan, etc...
Sounds like a topic for another video - but I would totally watch that video
Apparently, in China, Princess Jasmine is more well known than Mulan Fa. I read that a few years ago. It's interesting.
Yeah, this video was way off for me. As a person with Native ancestry, that Pocahontas movie was completely wrong on so many levels.
Are you talking about the Grim Brother's version of fairy tales? Cus those were quite violent.
@@MargieMedina Do you mean the historical inaccuracy or the problematic part of the representation?
I love how there's a mixture of feminine princesses (Elsa, Snow White, Cinderella) with masqueline princesses (Merida, Anna, Ariel). These show that there's a mixture of Tomboy and Girly Girl in most of us! 💜👑
Anna and ariel are more tomboyish than masculine.
Wrong. Snow White, Cinderella and Ariel are Feminine while Merida, Anna and Else are basically de facto men.
I agree with you - I love the mixture of types of girl! It can only help the forming of female relationships!
How is Anna masculine?
And Disney princess who are a mix of being both feminine and masculine (belle, princess jasmine, rapunzel)
Mulan and Tiana are such great role models tho
All Princesses are....😒
YES! and also cinderella
@@Soul22Tiara716 point to me where did I say they weren't?
@@literaIIyshy well u specifically named Mulan and Tiana only as great role models (which they are) but by doing so ur specifically outlining the idea that to be the best princess role model they have to be like them, why not say all of them are? Each of them has special way of teaching kids to be empowering... But anyway u get my point
@@Soul22Tiara716 "aLl pRiNcEssEs mAtTeR"
We must not forget that all these films are based on books! Disney changed a lot of those books to "fit in" with the younger audience. In stories about Cinderella there is even a version that one of the sisters cuts the leg to fit the shoe. These stories were in a different era, and there they sought to convey messages sharply to children. So it's a little funny to pass this on to Disney because they did not "invent" the same stories. It’s a lot of stories from different cultures and eras that have gone through a big change through Disney.
The original ending of Snow White had the Evil Queen arriving to Snow White's wedding only to be shown a pair of iron shoes that had been in fire for hours until they glowed red hot, and was subsequently forced to PUT THEM ON and dance until she DROPPED DEAD. Really, that was the original ending.
Disney didn’t invent those tropes, but they popularized them.
More people are familiar with Disney’s The Little Mermaid than the eponymous fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen.
This is why I like into the woods, it showed the dark version of the story’s and still some how made it happy.
Is it just me, or does Disney act like girls who are traditionally masculine are better than traditionally feminine girls? There are different types of women out there; some are girly, some are tomboyish, and some are in between!
P.S., Cinderella is my favorite.
I think there's some of the "I'm not like other girls" thing from Disney and the people who watch the movies. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't have the discussions about Ariel giving up her life for a man and Cinderella not reacting to her abusive family the same way and as frequently as we have today.
I’m not sure. Anna and Elsa are very feminine characters and they’re some of the most popular Disney characters. Moana was adventurous and sporty, but she still did everything in a skirt and a song in her heart.
@@tariqthomas9090 You're right but I was talking about the original three. They're not as bad as society likes to say. That's all.
Personally I think Belle, Rapunzel, Tiana, and Jasmine could be considered “girly” and are very popular.
The OG princesses tend to have less agency in their movies which could be why some people are starting to turn on them (wether fair or not)
@@beccag2758 Yeah, you're right. I guess I should've been more articulate: Hollywood kind of acts like traditional feminity is inferior to traditional masculinity.
Growing up, these princesses were my role models. Starting from Cinderella and her optimistic attitude, belle and her wits, ariel with her curiosity, Mulan with her bravery, Tiana for her perseverance, rapunzel with her individuality, Elsa with her independence... They've made the girl I am today. They taught me that it's okay to like girly things and tomboy things at the same time. They taught me to treat others with kindness. They taught me to have a more positive outlook on life. They taught me to be me. And I will defend most of these girls till I die.
I feel that by shaming the earlier princesses for it being “stronger” and defeating their abusers singlehandedly is really shitty.
Snow White and Aurora I will argue have minimal personality.
But Cinderella definitely has one and so has every Princess after her. Cinderella can be a little snippy (like with Lucifer) but, overall, she’s kind to anyone who’s kind to her. She’s civil with her stepfamily because it’s a matter of survival, and she even says so to Bruno who’s in a similar situation with Lucifer. She’s intelligent and optimistic that, one day, she’ll be free of them. She didn’t want a man to save her, she wanted to rebel and enjoy a night out for once in her life because she was INVITED.
Laura Lella to imply a woman who is both traditional and feminine is a bad role model for girls is incredibly misogynistic and toxic
@@alize0623 Say 👏 it 👏louder 👏👏👏
Agree with you but I'll help you out with Snow and Aurora.
Snow White is resourceful, charismatic, and kind. She has no family yet she decides that she needs to fend for herself alone in the woods. When Snow is scared, she apologizes and gets back up again. Snow knows that nothing is free and cleans the house in exchange to stay the dwarves house. She is charismatic because she literally wins the trust of everyone in the movie. The huntsman decides not to kill her bc of her good nature, dwarves let her stay in their house bc she is motherly (which mothers don't get a lot of credit), and the birds offer to help snow bc she is kind.
Aurora is elegant, a little rebellious, optimistic, educated. With her gorgeous locks, the way she speaks, and her mannerisms are the epitome of elegant. Rebellious bc when the fairies tell her not to go and meet strangers (which is good) Aurora has nobody to talk to and naturally disobeys the fairies. She is optimistic bc she yearns for an overall better life. Wanting to meet new people and dreams of a happily ever after. Aurora is educated bc the scene where she cries in her bed, there is a pile of books on her nightstand which shows that she must read a lot. She also has good virtues because when the fairies tell her that she is betrothed, basically marrying a man she doesn't know, she despises this and wants to marry the man who treats her well and she already knows.
@@ffantasylife3042 thank you ❤️😭
I've always thought it unfair that Cinderella is lumped in with Snow White and Aurora as "regressive" princesses. Unlike Snow White and (especially) Aurora, Cinderella isn't primarily passive; instead, much like Anne of Green Gables, she uses her imagination to survive in the worst of circumstances. Through her active kindness, she creates her own support system. That's what I enjoy about her.
Ariel was the first rebellious Princess with attitude, Pocahontas and Jasmine the first independent, free-spirited, and outspoken ones. Belle the first intellectual and outspoken. Mulan, the first warrior. Without those five, we never would've gotten Elsa, Anna, Rapunzal, Tiana, or Moana. Merida is rebellious and a warrior, but she is no Mulan or Rapunzal, she didn't learn her lesson. I love how this video acknowledged that older princesses, like Cinderella had a quiet strength, resilience, and we should give them more credit, not hate them and femininity.
Mulan has always been my favorite Disney princess, bar none, because of what a relatable character she really is. On the surface level, she shares many qualities with many of us: she writes notes for what is essentially a type of test, she can lose track of time, she loves her family, she has a good heart, and she has her silly moments (like her trying to whip out the sword but ends up dropping it, or her attempt at spitting).
But beyond that, we watch her go from accepting the status quo to going against it, even if her motivation is always someone else. At first, she wants to do what her society expects of her (get the matchmaker's approval, get married, and make her family proud), because she has been TAUGHT that that is all she is worth: to be a man's wife and mother to his sons. But it is never portrayed as a flaw; she has been taught to think of herself that way, and she struggles to accomplish that. Mulan begins to 'rebel' when she tries to beg the soldier from making her father fight in the war, even though women apparently are not allowed to speak in a man's presence. It snowballs from there, emerging naturally from the story in a way that never feels trite or forced. By the end, Mulan has gone completely against tradition and done a 'man's work' by fighting the Huns. And yet, it is this very break from tradition that saved the country. But what I find especially endearing is that she is always motivated by something outside herself. She steals her father's armor not just to 'prove she can do something right', but to save his life. She saves Shang because it is the right thing to do, not just because she has feelings for him. She warns him about the Huns even though he left her in the snow (which is better than killing her, but still), and she fights the Huns with no thought of gaining anything out of it. Mulan does it because it's the right thing to do, and someone has to do it, regardless of gender.
Jasmine is my favorite Disney princess. First of all, she's gorgeous and I was obsessed with her aesthetic as a kid (I think she'd be the most stunning of all the princesses if they were real people). She was also a great combination of feminine and tough: a glamorous, beautiful princess who is still independent-minded and won't let a man define her. This is why I don't understand why they tried so hard to make her "stronger" in the live-action version. Her most iconic line in the animated movie is "I am not a prize to be won." They didn't need to make her into Sultan to get the point across.
Also, I get why they have been approaching these characters from a new angle in the last decade. But, personally, I feel like it gets a bit heavy-handed. It's very unsubtle, like they're screaming at us: "See, she's strong! She's smart!" I feel like the Disney Princess now is turning into a "not like the other girls" trope a bit. This character type has been complex and inspiring since the 90's. As a Millennial, I guarantee you that my generation picked up on Belle's intelligence, Jasmine's independence, Ariel's bravery, and Mulan's strength when we were kids and were inspired by it, without being hit over the head and without sacrificing their more traditionally feminine qualities.
I agree. Unfortunately feminism has pressured the image of the Disney princess into making a big deal about being 'strong and independent', rather than simply letting these qualities flourish. Women don't need feminism to 'make' us strong, we already are.
p.s. Jasmine was my favourite growing up! I did love seeing a princess who was brown as well, that meant a lot to me.
AMEN TO THAT SHE IS ALSO MY FAVORITE DISNEY PRINCESS 🥰🥰🥰
@@Zoronita yes!!!
@@Zoronita Yep, she walked so later Disney girls of color could run
On the last point about older Disney princesses embracing femininity, Accented Cinema does a great analysis of how the animated _Mulan_ does a much better job at Mulan's growth than the live action by having Mulan reject hyper masculinity and instead embrace feminity/use her wits to solve problems. It's a great video, I highly recommend you check it out!
Sorry, I know this was off topic but I just had to share.
I never cared for being a princess as a kid. My only dream was to be a mermaid.
SAME GIRLY
Me too, Ariel was always my favourite growing up, mostly because I was absolutely obsessed with mermaids! 😍🧜♀️
I wanted to be a unicorn.
Same
Same lol
This is absolutely true. My nephew was OBSESSED with "Tangled" at about 3 years old and he was the most polite, empathetic, manner able child I had ever seen. He still showed interest in sports and other activities perceived as masculine but he adored "Tangled" and nearly exploded with happiness when my mother (his grandmother) bought it for him on DVD.
I like that you guys didn't discredit the older princesses. The problem that Disney always had was representation. You can't just promote one kind of woman because we're all so different and want different things. Nothing wrong with a dainty princess who wants the support of a man or a tomboyish princess who wants to do things on her own. Each one is valid.
I don't like when people bash the early/Renaissance Disney Princesses because the messages they give are just as feminist and important as the modern ones, only in a more traditional setting;
Cinderella = kindness and perseverance even in the face of cruelty will win the hearts of those that matter
Snow White = resourcefulness; make the best out of a bad situation and gain allies by being kind, but be cautious too, as not everyone is as good-hearted as you.
Ariel = follow your heart; dont be afraid to make changes and take a new path in life, but don't give up the most important part of who you are (your voice), and never forget where you come from.
Belle = the most obvious message, don't judge a book by its cover. but also, people can change for the better.
Pocahontas = open your mind and heart to difference. people of different cultures and backgrounds are all just people, and their lifestyle and values are just as valid as yours
Like to add nobody changes for anything because you are what you are the Beast didn't change he adapted to being nicer because he knows it's the only way to lift his curse and technically he was never bad at least when he transformed because anyone would be bitter and angry if they were transformed into a beast simply for denying a possible shady stranger shelter (in some versions he was a literal child with common sense and was cursed anyway) so it took Belle to quell his mental pain and finally opened to ppl again. The real message of the movie is love can heal a wounded soul.
The trope of the Disney Princesses is evolving and is showing more types or ways to be a princess. In a couple of years we'll have princesses that will be the completely differents. Can wait to see what's next
Raya and the Last Dragon looks very promising
I can only hope so. The Rebellious Spirit is getting old.
17:22 Hear, hear! "Early Disney Princesses bad because they're traditionally feminine" is just attacking traditionally feminine character traits. They aren't above criticism, like how Sleeping Beauty fails the sexy lamp test, but that's different. (Sexy Lamp Test- Can you replace your female lead with a sexy lamp, and still have the movie make sense) Especially with Cinderella, though, it can turn into victim blaming. "Cinderella's a weak character because she wasn't strong enough to stop Lady Tremaine from abusing her." It's the same regressive logic as arguing that the only men who get sexually abused were too weak (read: "too feminine" or "not masculine enough") to have stopped it.
Isn't Say that feminity is Bad... Sexist?
@@ClaudetteVioletta I mean, I'm always careful to use phrases like "traditionally feminine characteristics" instead of "femininity" to avoid the connotation that women are naturally that way or must be that way, but yes. I do come at it from a slightly different angle, though. (r/MensLib, which is like the healthy, pro-woman, pro-feminist version of MRA. I'd call Pop Culture Detective a good example)
There's this trend in society where boy things are for everyone, while girl things are only for girls. For example, it's obviously fine that women started wearing pants, but if a man wears a skirt, he's looked down upon for being feminine. It's okay if a woman wants to go into science, but if a man wants to become a teacher, he's obviously a secret pedophile. With that second one, I would actually go so far as to claim that the wage gap can never be closed without accepting men in traditionally feminine careers (which not so coincidentally happened to be paid less)
So the way I see the strong female character discussion is that we've equated "strong character" with "traditionally masculine character", so brash or active characters of both sexes are accepted. But while passive female characters are tacitly accepted, both they and especially passive male characters are looked down upon, because they don't meet that traditional masculine ideal.
I really think most of the criticism toward Disney Princess mythology is more reflective of the franchising of the characters than what we see in the movies or characters themselves, even if critics don't recognize it. Even "unfeminist" princesses like Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora display far more wit and spunk in their films than they're ever given credit for, but you wouldn't recognize that underneath all the toys and dolls that present their hair and dress colors as their most significant features.
Yes! Some (if not most) people who love to hate on them have never actually watched the movies, they just go on rambling about the idea they have of them!
Totally true!
Yes... Disney Princess franchise sucks with the whole "love can save the day" shit, ruinning the character repuration. Let's be real, the only one that depended of a man in the whole freakin movie was Aurora
I would like the remake the franchise with some ther heroines (Esmeralda, Jane, Meg, Kids, Eilonwy, Giselle, Elena, maybe Alice or Wendy, hell even Anastasia now that she is part of Disney) with a message that all girls are strong, with a man or not. Reflecting how most of them got their happily ever after by thenselves, How we all need help, but at the same time teaching us to be ourselves, kind, brave, How to stay positive, being more than a pretty face, and give messages to everyone. How it's okey to make mistakes, being single, feel afarid, sad, and of course, reflecting the princess as they are un their movies and not only "I'm a pretty princesses that want a boy" no..Reflecting them like they are more than that.
Disney hire me.
Btw, sorry the shitty English. Reflecting is a word?
Awesome observation. That tends to be my concern that little girls just see the pretty dresses and aren't really getting any of the deeper messages.
im glad you brought up the underlying sexism and misogyny with some peoples reasons for hating disney princesses. QUEENS WILL BE QUEENS WHETHER THEY WEAR A DRESS OR A WAR OUTFIT, HOLD A BROOM OR A SWORD!!! XX
We started with Damsels in Distress
and went to adventurous minds who learned to solve their problems by using their wits
it's sad we now live in the era of Disney Princesses Born Perfect who only need a single "awakening" moment to realize their true potential.
The best way they implemented the "Merre Sue" type Princess was with Vanellope. Despite being the strongest racer and most powerful being in her universe, she still had to GRIND and re-Learn all the skills she's known all along before realizing how much of a badass she was.
Wreck it ralph will still be the best disney movie.
Does Damsel in the princess should never have overlapped
In Frozen it took the entire movie for the Princesses to live up to their potential. And remember, the classics like Frozen matter more because they are more beloved and will be remembered!
I'm so glad that you didnt just crap on the classic princesses. Comparing them and judging them IS sexist.I dont see us overanalizing and comparing superheroes, or Aladdin vs Hercules vs Tarzan.
"Everyone is drawn to her, even animals." .. Do you mean *especially* animals?
I'm with Maui. Animal companions are the defining feature of Disney princesses. Most of them have a companion. Snow and Aurora don't, but can still summon woodland creatures. And while Merida (and Kuzco) doesn't even have that, she still has the whole bear motif (and Kuzco has a llama motif), so her movie isn't devoid of animals.
I guess what I'm saying is that most Disney princesses are either druids or rangers.
no, the animals are all "drawn." ...they're cartoons/animations. ;-)
@@justineberlein5916 actually merida has a pet horse to.
...Oh my God.
Being sweet, optimistic and good doesn't make you weak! I still stan the Disney Princesses and I would want my future daughter to grow up with them
When I was little, my favorite Disney Princess was Cinderella. I would watch all the movies and would dress up whenever I could. But when I got older and whenever we talked about our favorite as a kid, people would always criticize and saw her as anti-feminist as she should have stood up to her stepmom and stepsisters. Eventually, I switched to Belle as we were both bookworms and longed for another life than the one our society told us to have as women. However, once again, people criticized as I switched again for more of the modern princess like Mulan and Elsa and I lied again and again. Even when I told people I liked Disney Princesses when I was younger, some shamed me as I “didn’t look“ like the type to have liked them. Eventually, I got tired of lying and having to reject my feminine traits for just only masculine.
What I loved about Cinderella was not just her beautiful blue dress but the dream of a better life than the one that has been handed to you. To try to make the best out of hard times and be kind to others even when they don’t deserve it. Which meant a lot as the daughter of two immigrants. I loved Belle as I related to her in my preteen years as I craved knowledge but also carried the lesson of seeing people based on their character and not by their appearance. Which helped a lot as I got older. Mulan taught me to reject gender roles which helped me when I got to middle school and was being judged for loving “traditional boy things” like Star Wars and Marvel. And I related to Elsa when Frozen came out as we were both introverts, scared of who we are, and during Frozen 2, Into the Unknown made me relate as I was struggling through mental illness and came to accept who I was. All those princesses made me who I am and no princess is better or worse than the others as what they represented a time in my life when I needed them most. While in some aspects that I carry some masculine traits, Disney Princesses was my childhood and made me no longer afraid to own my femininity.
Well done and so true. 👏👏👏
Her dress wasn’t even really blue in the movie weirdly enough.
Some people think that an inherently girly, kind and empathetic female character is anti-feminist, but isn't that assumption itself anti-feminist?
Nowadays it seems that women need to be inherently non-feminine to be viewed as feminist or feminist role models and that's just wrong on so many levels.
Feminism has made girls less human. If anything, women are less than empowered because they are told that they can never be their true selves in order to be taken seriously. So, basically, feminists have become misogynistic because they aspire to be like men instead of embracing what makes them a female
Kindness and empathy are often seen as a weakness, because they are not proactive, they don't provide protection or are useful as a weapon (outside of manipulation, but then you're not actually being kind), while simultaneously making you open and vulnerable. If for example you are forgiving and lenient with the person that tries to stab you in the back, they will stab you again the moment you turn around. Even when your kindness inspires them not to, that still makes your life completely dependent on their decision. In short, they are passive which to some people is enough of a sin in itself.
These people don't hate these traits BECAUSE they are feminine, but rather because traits they consider a weakness in the first place are associated with femininity.
No it's not anti-feminist, it's anti-women and anti-individualistic. The idea that your mere existence as both female and kind holds back the advancement of other women is ludicrous and a big problem with both the incoherence and the group thinking SOME feminists like to apply.
Incoherent because you can't claim to be a proponent of getting rid of gender stereotypes, but then say someone can't be (or can't be perceived) a certain way, because that is traditionally feminine. You're not separating these aspects from the gender you're just shifting the goalpost. Fighting gender stereotypes should be about letting people be who they are, not setting new limitations.
The other problem is the group mentality, which basically states that as a woman you are part of the "sisterhood". Your actions and ideas reflect on feminism as a whole and thus must be presentable and in compliance with the image feminism tries to push. So if feminism says we want strong independent women who kick ass and are dominant and assertive, than that's all your allowed to embody.
Little bit melodramatic but you get the point. 😄
Mr. Ice yes and that's honestly just sad.
Imagine viewing being kind as a fucking weakness. Feminism used to be about both genders being equal and being who you want to be. Nowadays it seems more to be about empowering women above men and losing "typically" feminine character traits (who thought of associating kindness and empathy with a gender, wtf).
Like, it's no wonder feminists are made fun of and being a feminist is considered almost a slur nowadays.
@@Piccadally "who thought of associating kindness and empathy with a gender, wtf"
I think that originally came from where your gender stood historically. Depending on your role in society, in the family, in the marriage, in your workplace, as a mother, in your class certain traits were emphasized because they were seen as useful or appropriate for your standing. The virtues and vices you were taught were usually optimized to suit your role (at least from the standpoint of what was appropriate at the time).
Keep in mind that a lot of the things we associate with femininity in general today were primarily meant for the upper class women: "Above all a princess strives for perfection", "It's not Lady-like to cuss", etc. This then spilled over to the other classes of women through romanticizing and craving aspects of the noble life. Modern takes on this would for example be: "Treating someone like a princess", "You don't ask a Ladys age", "She is a Queen". Even Disneys success with the princess brand depends strongly on the association with aspects of historical nobility, like luxury, wealth, beauty, grace, high social standing, glamour, ...
*I cried in the end THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To reject feminine qualities is anti- feminist. I've always been ultra feminine & "feminist" have always looked down on me & called me too weak or too kind or too sweet or girly so then I just ended up hanging with more guys & a few lady friends. And this in turn made me despise "those feminists" for the longest time, but in 2020 I've became okay with women's rights as they discus more issues in the black community & attractive feminine feminists such a Beyoncé & Meghan Markle (ect.). I am so happy this new feminine Black feminist movement is taking place!!!!!!!!!*
Feminism is about realizing that all people have equal worth. Anyone who uses it to make you feel bad for being girly is, pardon my French, just a bitch.
I thought the point of feminism is to make it so women don't have to be feminine if they don't want to and so they don't get shamed for being feminine if they don't want to.
Anti-feminists for me, are people who are shaming women for being who they are. Whether it be girly-girl or the assertive one or any kind of femininity.
The Variety Channel of youtube feminism is about equality
I think it's worth noting that the reason every princess has at least one loyal animal companion is because animals are believed in many cultures to have excellent intuition and judgment of character. They can sense when someone is a dangerous threat, or when someone is pure and trustworthy. The princesses are the latter, therefore animals are drawn to them.
All of the disney princesses are great in their own rights. Thank you for saying great things about Cinderella, Snow White, and Aurora. I only wish that you touched on stuff like the the status of each princess, when the story is set, that kind of thing but then we'd be here forever.
Something that bothers me is a woman who is trapped and helpless is supposedly 'bad' but a man who is in the same situation is okay.
Probably because there aren’t as many stories about being men trapped and having to be rescued by a woman than the inverse, since men aren’t allowed to be weak and helpless because they’ll be seen as unmanly (“You let a woman save you? Wimp!” 😂).
Feminists don’t mind it because as I said, it’s rare when it happens to men in stories, so naturally the novelty of that is more appealing.
@@beethovensfidelio That makes sense.
@@thephoenix3674 I think it’s because the damsel in distress is a stock trope.
Sure, dudes can be in distress and rescued by women, but it’s a lot more common for women because sexism (women are perceived as weak and helpless without a man, and men are perceived as strong and don’t need a woman to save them).
I’ve seen something worst.
Women in a bad situation get sympathized with (as they should) but man who are? Treated like jokes
Except for Cinderella, she gets victim blamed which is complete bullshit
@@starrsmith3810 no, women are often not believed when trying to get put of an abusive relationship or reporting SA. Or they are blamed, alive or already dead.
im so glad the last point was brought up! On too many occasions are the first three princess scolded and seen as anti-feminist. To say hyper-feminine women are bad is sexist, they deserve just as much respect as the women who have more masculine qualities. Also it's very victim-blaming to shame snow white, cinderella or aurora when theyre all victims of abuse of some sort of way, the anger is never put into the people who actually harmed them? Aside from that, there's nothing wrong in showing kindness, softness and gentleness, all are good basis for anyone to shape themselves to be empathetic people in the future
Enchanted is an underrated GEM!
Thank you! I have always loved ALL Disney Princesses. Every story has a moral and something we can learn from and every Disney Princess has admirable traits. I appreciate the portrayal of femininity that is still admirable. Our world is too focused on hyper masculine traits that ultimately can be detrimental to society as a whole, like being aggressive to the point of violent. I’d rather see a humble character portrayed as having a happy ending than an aggressive character who took their happy ending by force. Even Disney movies with male protagonists, like Quasimodo from Hunchback of Norte Dame, share a similar story arch and admirable traits described in this video. And having come from an abusive childhood myself, I think Disney Princesses gave me hope that one day I could escape my oppression and be the author to my own story.
The first movie I ever saw in a theater was sleeping beauty. At 50 years old I can still remember like yesterday. I've loved Disney Princesses every since.
I love disney princess each one is different yet worthy of praise.
Princess and The Frog is such a great movie, all the songs where lit, and the prince and princess are gorgeous. Just hated that they were frogs for half the movie.
I was hoping you'd make a video about this! Loved it!
Each princess has something to offer, in general, each Disney era exemplifies different primary qualities for their princesses:
Original trinity (Golden and Silver eras): Virtue and emotional resilience. These princesses (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora) radiate hope and sweetness to the people around them, and endure hardships with their kindness and optimism. They're more like muses than real people, inspiring us with their qualities.
Renaissance: Personality and romantic agency. Romance is the central plot of their stories (except for Mulan), but these princesses choose the love life and partners they want, and are more proactive in their stories. They also have wishes and interests that makes them more relatable.
Revival: Ambition and personal fulfillment. These princesses have goals and motivations not centered around romance, though most of them do get it in the end. They tend to be more interested in their career, discovering the world or fulfilling themselves as individuals. They have a blend of both traditional and modern qualities.
In defense of Aurora, everyones always ragging on her for being too invested in the prince and having no interest of her own. But to that I say, Phillip is too😂His charecter is just as much heavily relied upon his romantic interest as Auroras. they're both way overly invested and willing to make completley rash descions (like, I don't know, risking the saftey of their kingdom by regretting an aranged marriage that has been pledged for like 18 years THE DAY OF, possibly putting the kingdoms at war) for someone they just met because they're pretty. So, ya.
And seeing as she's 16 and he 18, it makes completely sense that they are thinking with their...
I think the difference is Phillip balances it out by being somewhat funny, a little over the top, etc etc whereas Aurora is just... a romantic.
Plus, idk, I’d probably be more concerned about my whole life being a lie and meeting my real parents for the first time.
Honestly they were both boring to me
@@morganrakes4184 She was clearly upset about that too. Also, Aurora is sassy and goofy as well, it’s just that it’s easy to miss because she has so little screen-time.
I really appreciate how you delve Deep into the different Disney Princesses and how each of the next Disney Princesses releasef after the next one serve as the Segway for the next Princesses moving forward
it should have been made clear that Enchanted is basically a satirical look at the Disney princess. purposely exaggerated.
And the fact that there are characters aware of the over-the-top Disney qualities drives the point further.
Never seen the movie but I think I need to. That line "Are you crazy? They're BIRDS! They don't know where she lives" is definitely funny.
@@methos1999 you should! it's great
It’s poker satire of the first 3 princesses and Ariel. If there is an Enchanted sequel I would want more commentary on modern Disney tropes of twist villains, live action remakes, the princesses fighting etc.
the trapped princess type shows how women have been oppressed, right?
but the interesting thing is that usually the oppressor is another woman, usually jealous of the princess' looks.
which means internalized sexism
Thank you for this! I hate it when people try to make me feel guilty for enjoying some of the earlier Disney princess movies as much as the more modern ones. They appeal to different parts of me.
Also, Snow White has some legit scary ass scenes in it, with Snow White fleeing through the forest (I'm always wondering how much is real and how much is her fear and imagination running away from her), the evil queen's transformation, and the dwarves chasing the witch up a cliff and her almost crushing them. Then you really feel the emotion and sadness of the dwarves as they're mourning Snow White.
I want you to do an episode about Atlantis. A brilliant Disney movie that get super under looked. Kida is my favorite Disney Princess. She is fantastic.
🎶 Let's get down to business. To defeat the Huns! 🎶
*DID THEY SEND ME DAUGHTERS WHEN I ASKED FOR SONS?*
You're the saddest bunch I ever met - but you can _bet_ , before we're through
Mister, I'll make a man out of you.
🎶 *TRANQUIL AS A FOREST*
*BUT ON FIRE WITHIN* 🎶
*Once you find your center, you are sure, to win!*
Elsa: You can't marry a man you just met.
Anna: You can when it's true love.
Elsa: Actually as princess and heir you *Do* need my permission as Queen to marry.
Anna: But that's not fair
Queen: Life isn't fair in a monarchy Anna or did you miss that lesson with our professor.
@@normadgarmez7026
Anna: But I want...
Elsa: And I want to sleep with '80s Tom Selleck instead of my husband but that's not gonna happen now is it?
Anna: But you could...
Elsa: Can't!
Anna: Can't or won't?
Elsa: Both! Either! Pick one!
@@georgeprchal3924 ...Dafuq did you give Elsa a husband for 🥲
@@someoneyouprobablyknowandl9964 because that's how monarchy works. He foremost job as sovereign would have been to produce an heir.
@@georgeprchal3924 ...Did you mean "her"* instead of "he"*
Also, bruh, do you *want* me to rattle of a huge list of old royalty who adopted an heir OR...have an ''apprentice'' be an heir instead of a child?
Last time I was this early, Mulan was still Ping
Does she not call herself Ping in the new one?
@@MrIce-tl7wo she doesn't, as far as I remember
@@MrIce-tl7wo She called herself Hua Jun. In the original animated version she was Fa Mulan. They changed her last name to Hua, because in The Ballad of Mulan her full name is Hua Mulan.
Thank you for including Elena of Avalor in this!
Both she and Sofia from Sofia the First get overlooked by the larger Disney fandom since they’re often seen as “the preschool spinoff princesses,” but they’re both really wonderful characters from two great all-ages shows.
Sofia displays a mix of classic and modern princess traits in that she’s as adventurous and brave as she is humble, inquisitive and compassionate. Elena is of the modern princess mold through and through, and her entire series is about her balancing her wants and responsibilities as a young leader. In both series, romantic love is a subplot element designated to the supporting cast, and platonic/familial love is unquestionably the strongest force in both shows. Not to mention, both of them have a notably even balance of well-rounded female and male characters covering a surprisingly wide age spectrum, so that they live up to the “all-ages” label rather than being just for kids.
TLDR: Elena of Avalor and Sofia the First are pretty neat, especially if you’re a Disney Princess fan!
I love mulan so much ( the cartoon not the movie it was just not good 😂)
tiana is often forgotten about and underrated but she was one of the only disney "princess" who had a working class job (we love a working woman) who showed us that you can achieve your career dreams (hers was to run her own restaurant) AND fall in love, ending up with both her dream job and a happy relationship. not to mention this movie was black representation "before it was cool".
sometimes we forget that getting married or falling in love doesn't have to be the end of your independent life. girls shouldnt have to choose between career and marriage/family. you can choose to have both. and choosing family doesnt make you weak (you should have the choice to), and choosing career doesnt have to make you "a StRonG iNdEpenDeNt wOmAn" in the twisted 2010s disney princess way where to be strong you just cant have a man at all.
growing up with Disney princesses didn't make my want to wait to be saved or for happily ever after with some "prince" .. it just made me want to be kind and compassionate and try my best.. the claim that a girl should be more like a tomboy to be worth while that is the sexist idea.. totally agree with your take .. 👍🏻
The modern princess isn’t about loving someone else but learning to love herself and I think that’s great
now do barbie! i remember preferring barbie over the disney princesses because she was always the hero of her story, from the beginning!!!
People can say what they want about Disney princesses.
But deep down.
We all scream along with their songs.
the trapped princess - my biggest fear! Absolutely destructive idea. Robbed "of agency over their own lives"! hypnotising little girls with self-destructive patterns, horrible. Large analysis and descussion should be made with children after watching such cartoons. Despite how beautiful (ofc) the stories are. Good that such videos exist nowadays! Thank you.
The Exotic Girl Trope ..... Pleaaaaasseeeuuhh
Pretty sure they've already done that.
@@Serai3 nope
You should do a short take on the Witch in the The Beauty and The Beast and how she was the villain, because she cursed an 11 year old child because he didn’t let a stranger into his home.
He saw Snow White, he knew what the fuck happened when you let strangers in you home with magic items. Also, why was he answering the door himself? Carson from Downton Abbey would have had someone killed for that.
Because there were no hotels in those days and among society hospitality was a big deal.
Love it! I've long thought that a great topic for a sociology thesis would be to use Disney princesses as a lens to examine how women's roles in society have changed over the years, and this video is probably the closest I've seen to that thought being realized.
Who else got goosebumps when they heard Ariel sing “Part of Your World”? Just me? Ok. 👍
Me every time no matter what
She is my favorite
I love how they changed Anastasia in the cinderella sequels, sure she isn’t a princess but she isn’t the villains, the real villains are her mother and sister. I really like how she was shown as wanting to do/be something more then her normal lifestyle. She wants dot love someone, but her mother was very controlling of her
I don’t care, Deadpool is still my favorite Disney Princess.
Lol
agree to disagree, we all know kuzco was the best princess
Is Princess Turdina from Star versus The Forces of Evil included??
We all know stich is the best Disney Princess thank you very much
What about Dark Vader??
In the past, The Take did a great video on how we need to not victim-blame Cinderella. I'm surprised they didn't remind us of it or encourage those who haven't seen it to do so. They've referred to previous videos covering topics before.
MAID MARIAN APPRECIATION THREAD! She's basically what brought King John's regime down.
Except he reigned an additional 17 years and was far more successful than his brother.
@@katherinealvarez9216 real guy. I don't know about the lion. Turns out Richard didn't really care much about anything John did whilst he was crusading.
If you think Cinderella is helpless you should watch Cinderella three, my girl was kicking ass!
i often get flack for liking disney princesses - by people that don’t understand what they can represent positively. while disney is far from perfect, this video hit the nail on the head on why i love them!
There is nothing wrong with falling in love and wanting to get married, the early Disney princesses had that dream.
even as i grow older i adore princesses. they give me hope and inspiration. not just for a prince or even for fighting, for empowering my dreams. they teach me to never give up on what i want and always treat people with kindness
Cinderella still managed to be nice after all the years if abuse and some people have the nerve to say she's weak? She may not be weak physically but she is mentally (I think) and emotionally
I love that this channel is getting more attention now. Can‘t imagine how much work must go into editing these videos ❤️
Moana is my personal favorite of all the Disney princess (even though she’s technically the daughter of the chief).
She takes all the best aspects of previous characters like Tiana, Belle, Mulan, Anna and Elsa, and Rapunzel, while still being very heroic and unique.
You know that line from the Wreck It Ralph 2 trailer that had the whole internet buzzing for a few weeks? "Do people assume all your problems got solved because a big, strong man showed up?" And everyone was praising Disney for being able to poke fun at their sexist history. But, you guys! ***DO PEOPLE ASSUME*** This isn't making fun of those old movies or princesses, it's making fun of how viewers interpret them. The response to that line only served to prove it right.
I hope they talk about Ever After some day
They should have referenced the movie, The Princess Protection Programme, a Disney movie evaluating all those tropes
Perfect timing!
I agree with this video so much! People nowadays discredit old disney princesses for not being "strong" and "tough", as if that's the only good qualities a woman can have. I don't think that "a man will save you" should be the takeaway from movies like snow white, cinderella and sleeping beauty. When I watch them, I take from it that those women were trying to be optimistic, kind, and good even when the world threw a huge pile of shit on them, and all odds were against them - which is very difficult to do. I find that very strong and inspiring.
Have people have forgotten that Ariel saved Eric 2 times?
In fact, you can argue that if Ariel never saved Eric the 2nd time, let alone kill Floatsem and Jetsem, Ursula would've gotten pissed off, grown big, and Eric wouldn't be able to deliver the final blow.
*a the take video can't make you cry*
me: *biting back tears of blubbery*
It’s called mulan is the best Disney Princess.
Nah. Depends on who you are really.
I like Tiana better :|
Slytherin Elphaba Evergirl lets me honest here
1. Mulan
2. Tiana
3. Everything in the 2010s
Cinderella was strong and independent but in a more subtle and feminine way. That's why people call her "weak"
I always wanted you to make a video especially for the princesses, thank you very much the take
"I don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things could be so bad." - Ariel
Also Ariel, lives in polluted oceans... 😧
Touché! 😂
Also, I would tell Ariel this:
*”Look at Russia. On the one hand, they created balalaikas, Matryoshka dolls, and catchy folk songs such as “Katyusha” and “Valenki”. On the other hand, they created anti-Jewish pogroms, which caused thousands of Jews to leave their homes after the Cossacks burned down their shtetls and killed their families.”*
What advancements do mermaids claim that we should fear them?
George Prchal What are you talking about?
This is before major pollution, so not yet
To the people saying that "Cinderella didn't want the prince, she wanted a night out," THE BALL WAS FOR SCOUTING BRIDES.
If Cinderella were to marry the prince she would have the means and power to leave her abusive family and in the original fairytale, the Prince avenges her by having crows attack her step family.
She didn't just want a man not did she just want a party. She wanted protection from the people who hurt her and going to the ball would offer a shot at that.
actually, no one knew about the bride scouting bit. The king just said that he wanted a welcome home party for the prince.
7:04 I have to say it was the fairies who did the majority of the work.
I'm changing the subject, but I really wanted to ask that you make a take on the TV series Cobra Kai. There is two thing I really want you to analyse. The first is the theme of bullying who is superbly exposed in that series by presenting adult bullying vs teenage bullying.
The second would be about the myth of martial art that is somewhat harmful. While I was a teenager, I learned karate for the same reason that is express in the show, but one of the first thing you learn in martial art is that it is NOT the great equalizer. You will NOT be able to face off against multiple opponent, somebody with a weapon or somebody who is much bigger or stronger than you and come out on top. Martial art is part of self defense, but it's only a tiny fraction of it. Self defense is about deescalation of conflict and survival. It can help with bullying though, by providing a sense of community and building up self confidence, which it is also express in the show.
Anyway, I don't want to make that post to long, but I feel that it would be a great take on a series that is gaining popularity. Also, for the record, I really enjoyed Cobra Kai as an art of fiction, but a lot of MC Dojo take advantage of those myths and I think It would be good to call them out here.
Can I just say this about Cinderella... she's a Mexican icon. 🇲🇽
Think about it:
- had her land taken from her
- endures some messed up scenarios
- not against manual labor
- optimistic and holding on to dreams
- just ask for one night of partying to blow off steam
- not gonna turn down a romantic relationship
- gets ahead through kindness, connections and resourcefulness
Thesis: There's a reason the Cinderella dress is popular in Quinceañeras. For Mexican Americans, we're all Cinderellas holding on to dreams when everyone else has given up or dismissed us. And we're not afraid to run in glass shoes... it's not the first time we've stepped on sharp objects barefooted.
i was drawn to mulan as a kid because she was my only source of representation in media - for once I saw myself reflected and included in a grander social narrative