Pico 4.... MASSIVELY Improve Your Wired PCVR Visuals!
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2022
- Correcting the very poor Pico Streaming Assistants problems with visual quality in this guide!
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I meant 8hz sound quality not 8Kbit! lol
Think you probably had 8bit in your head 😆 easy mistake. Some great info, keep up the good work 👍🏻
i had the same problem
i had the same problem with the 2.4 ghz wifi, pico choosed the wrong one but with 5ghz wifi it worked like a charm
Someone find the solution for this problem. You just need to go to the file where is installed pico streaming assistant and install the audio driver.
That worked for me ;)
And thank you a lot for your video but I still find the image very bad compared to what we have with virtual desktop :/ Do you know if it's possible to launch virtual desktop linked ?
Just bought a Pico 4, Karl, and after about an hour of Googling and messing around I finally managed to run my Steam games wirelessly in 90hz . Got it mainly to run Euro Truck SImulator 2 , just had to change it to -openvr in properties instead of -oculus as I was using the Quest 2. I think the image is clearer than the Quest 2 but not massively so. F1 2022 plays pretty well and smoother than the Quest 2. As for the audio in the Pico 4, I set it to play headset only and got nothing, so changed it back to headset and pc and it worked in the headset. My pc audio selector did show the Pico audio but it wasn't streaming any audio until I changed it to headset and pc weirdly. I'm not sure if I'll keep the Pico 4 yet, the joy of buying from Amazon, got 30 days returns. Cheers pal, liked n subbed. Daz. PS...forgot to say, I'm wirelessly streaming using the streaming assistant, haven't tried VD yet, another fourteen quid, already got it on the pc and for the Oculus. Just feel like your shelling out all the time lol !!
Shelled out almost a monkey for the pico 4 with all the add-ons. Be f--kd if I can get the pico connect to work.
Karl, all that time I heard about how bad SA is and when I tried it myself I was also disappointed about the results. Your video has helped me tremendously. Not only the picture quality is now very good, but unlike VD I can see the Pico controllers and not the Quest controllers in VR. Some games run even better than with VD (Hubris). But there are some downsides as well: like you said, you can't play Rift games with SA, for that VD is a brilliant solution. I will using both now, seeing the results after tweaking Steam VR. Thanks for your video!!!
Glad it helped mate! :)
can you share your thoughts what is the better option.wired on SA or VD for a game which supports both the SA and VD ?
@Mrinmoy Chowdhury I don't do wired. Only via a dedicated wifi6 router. And in the end I prefer VD, because it has more options as I can play Rift games as well. But if you never bought anything in the Rift store, try SA, it works fine.
Hi Karl, thank you very much as usual for your videos! Very informative and thorough!
I decided to pull the trigger recently with the Pico 4, coming from a Rift S (which I still have).
Despite the latest version of Streaming Assistant and third party utility to push the bitrate to 240Mbit/s (called Streaming ASsistant Extender), I totally see the limitation from a Display Port device which get a full uncompressed image.
DEspite the more efficient HEVC in Pico 4, in Assetto Corsa Competizione I get a lot of compression artifacts, especially on items with low contrast and far away.
Looking at the next turn in ACC is awful.
This is also caused by my limited GPU power, as I use a RTX 2070 Max-P (115W on a laptop), which causes some details to be lost in the process, and then the compression does the rest.
Although when I try to push to the limit the resolution (just to test the real resolution of the lcd panels in the Pico 4) I can see the definition is there, but I can't use it due to lack of GPU power.
Also the compression I think it's affecting the colour depth of the rendered image. Colours are duller compared to Oculus Rift S, and this could depend on the video stream going through the Pico 4 is 8bit, probably 4:2:0 colour subsampling.
The Oculus Rift having DP probably is capable of receiving still a 8 bit image, but it's uncompressed and probably 4:2:2 or 4:4:4.
I really like the ergonomics of Pico 4, the display, a little bit less the comfort (I have the same problem as you, light gets into from the side of the foam interface) and also start to hurt my forehead after 1h.
Standalone gaming is totally not for me, it looks like PS1 :D
I think I will return my Pico 4 to Amazon, save money this year and probably sell the gaming laptop and build again a custom PC. And then will see what VR headset will come out!
I could use Virtual desktop though on the Pico, although it's just on Wifi or using a usb ethernet cable. In case of WIFI, I really don't like having a device on my head emitting radio waves at 5ghz for prolonged period of time.
Pancake lens are quite great with FOV and clarity, although I get some back reflection from anything high contrast on a dark background, which is a little bit annoying.
Can't justify 350£ in my case, unfortunately.
Yes mate unfortunatly with a RTX 2070 Max-P you a a million miles away from getting the most out of any current gen headset, they are just far too higher resolution, even my RTX 3080 can't run it maxed out.
Videos like these are priceless. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
I also had the distortion issue with streaming assistant, but it was due to some kind of conflict between the audio of the PC vs the Pico Audio. To avoid it, I either power down all external DACs connected to my PC and set the audio to PICO4 prior to power it on and connect it.
I'll have a play around but I only use the onboard Mobo audio so nothing else to unplug?! lol
@@KarlGosling you don't have to unplug anything, that is crazy. This issue is caused by incorrect communication between the PC and the headset, I.E. wrong audio device. VD automatically and correctly selects the Pico virtual audio device, but SA does not. Manually selecting Pico's virtual audio fixes this.
@@MoMoMonsterkil My pico4 actually gives no audio out on pcvr using SA. I haven't tried with VD yet, the drivers installed the virtual audio device for pico, it's clearly on with the green audio bar moving, but the headset itself gives no audio. Very frustrating.
@@KarlGosling You could also check Device Manager and see if you've got an Intel Smart Sound Technology for USB Devices under Sound, Video and Game controllers. We've had this issue with USB Headsets, disabling that device brings the audio back to normal
They shouldve just put like a UHD option and put a warning when turning it on
They didn't do it on purpose.... Whoever made the app didn't understand they need to render higher than the native panel res
Excellent! Thank you for the tips!
My pleasure!
Thank you for this very helpful tip. I have been using Samsung HMD Odyssey+ for a while and been wondering if the resolution seemed low. Guess I can do the same in the SteamVR settings.
This is exactly what i was looking for. I just got into VR and was wondering, why for example Assetto Corsa, even though I selected the highest settings, still looked like trash.
I thought the HD setting + 90hz would put everything on optimal settings, but I guess I was wrong about that.
hey.. im a noob looking to get into this shizzle.. can you please tell me what GPU you ae running and if you were running pico4 wired or not (playing AC)
thank you.
The streaming assistant seems to have a lot of room for improvement, in the mext updates. I hope even the virtual desktop improves over time.
It does mate yes!
Well it may be 2024 now, but as a new Pico 4 owner with a 3080, I still found this video really helpful!
Excellent!
Hi Karl! I have a 3080 too and was wondering wich resolution setting did you use, it wasn't clear in the video. Thanks
I think they need to figur out sounds ide, so we get that sound up running on Wifi deffently. Ihavnt tried it with cabel yet. Virtual Desktop runs so good and deffently is My prefered one, Even with a bit lower grafics.... Thumbs up to Pico 4 and there New lenses 💓
Another tip is to lower your monitor resolution. VD does this too with the optimal monitor resolution box ticked.
Excellent video, have just ordered a Pico4 to mess about with - do you have a setup video that covers install from a bare (non VR) system, its a Win11, i12900k, 3080ti setup with FS2020
Thank you
No worries!
such a great video
thanks for the explanation
No worries!
Others have said audio compression with Pico assistant, and fine with VD too
Definitely an issue they need to look at then!
This is gold,
Just try to explain a bit why of the stuff you suggest
what about virtual desktop setting? what would you use for a mid range PC? i have a 3070 laptop. thanks
Those wipe stains are golden with non-shiny plastic. Dull plastic is more absorbent than shiny plastic.
Hm, thanks for info mate. About sound, maybe you found out but there are streaming settings influencing the sound, like the default sound settings on PC, any addons for sound and drivers :)
Just changed those setting and rly blowed my mind! Thats the propet resolution and the true power of Pico 4. In Half Life Alyx i can easily read the papers on tables walls etc etc. In each room i am just going arroung and searching for stuffs!
So the difference in resolution between Pico 4 and Quest 2 its EXTREMLE MASSIVE. In pcvr Pico 4 its a apsolutly beast.
Bear in mind that you need powerfull gaming pc.
Yes very powerful but awesome if you do!
How powerful of a PC are you referring to? Is i5 12400f and 3060 12gb enough?
@@eleongoyoull get along with that
This is best used on SD settings? Saw something like recommended settings of SD (720p) for 2060 whereas 2070 for full HD (1080p) at pico settings.
@@eleongo you can easily Go with full HD settings.
So do you think it's better to play wired for good latency? And, is the image more clear and less "ugly" playing wired?
Good point! 👍 I also have a 3080 and a i7 so i cannot get that high sadly. 😭
Looks great when we try... just at 50fps! lol
Crying with 2070s
Hi I hope someone can help, when I go in to steam home everything is tiny its as if my head is huge its the same in skybox media player, I've been trying to find an answer for a couple of days now with no luck.
When I use my quest 2 everything looks ok ,tia.
Nice explanation thanks
I have my Pico4 also running USB wired in , and I also have a sound problem - it’s simply too quiet . Sound quality is fine , but I can’t figure out how to fix the low volume problem , even with the headset on max. I already checked the manual settings in windows , everything is 100% , but it’s still too quiet . Any ideas ?
Sorry mate no I don't.
Thanks
No problem
I also have a 3080, you use 3160x3160 or you are using a higher resolution? thanks!!!! improved so much my pcvr
Karl, do you observe any tiny glitches in head tracking? In my quest 2, i noticed that both in quest home and games, the head tracking was rock solid, but whith pico 4, both in the home, and in when streaming, e.g. steam vr home, there was a slightly jitterness when making small head movements. I sent by pico back, but now wondering if i should try again if the head tracking issue was just that unit, or maybe will get patched out? Thanks!
Not that I've noticed mate no.
Sometime i notice the same issue
Is there a way to use openxr for msfs with those? Steamvr performance was shit on G2 last time i checked...
is there any benefit in latency when using a cable ? I had a Valve Index years ago and struggling with VD and Pico 4 even i hit my 90fps and latency VD Graph shows 40-45ms. But still getting jiggy and noticing the Latency at all. Wondering if Latency is like Native PCVR or still choppy ?
I also have the same issue with the audio being broken and unusable. I tried different cables and even other ports but it didnt fix the audio. I also have the issue that sometimes the connection just randomly disconnects WHILE IM WIRED and choosing the option to connect wired via the stream assistance app from pico. New cable is being used and again tried other once as well but its a very hit or miss when it decides to stay connected. Im so confused.. When I chose wirless everything works fine and so does the audio. I really really hope they can fix it soon.
Wired connections for VR headsets are always very picky about USB ports, cables, etc. IME.
I was thinking of getting one of these for PCVR use only Via cable. I'm casual so mainly use social programs like VRchat and Bigscreen. For the price seems like a no brainer compared to the quest 3. Just need something basic for my 4070TI
Do pancake lenses need barrel correction to the same level as fresnel lenses then? I somehow wondered that it would be less?
I would have thought so too mate, but that means all VR games and or SteamVR/Meta runtime would need to know what headset you're using and exactly how much barrel correction to apply based on your lenses and I don't think thats the case... but I can't say for 100%.
Let's suppose i leave it "HD" in the pico software is it still better than the quest 2 resolution or not?
On paper this headset seems amazing and I would only be playing PCVR but I do hear a lot of bad things about it. I am unable to have a wired internet connection so don't believe I can use virtual desktop and most people say don't bother with the Pico streaming assistant. My old headset was the Samsung Odyssey+ but the wire broke and it was basically impossible to get in contact with samsung. Do you think it's worth getting the Pico 4 to use with streaming assistant, since it is likely that it will get updated but not a guarantee? or should I just wait since there's a lot of big announcements that should be happening soonish?
I have a 3080 and would prefer inside out tracking and also to not be spending over £400-500. Beatsaber and vrchat are my main games. Would really appreciate any advice
Chosen a headset yet? I am 5 months late but pico 4 has been amazing for PCVR and i use the streaming assistant.
@@fionasherleen A very surprising reply 😂I havent yet, still been waiting to hear about Samsung next project 😔 Does it have a wired connection option yet? I keep getting loads of adverts for the pico 4 and really do need to get back in vr
@ho8ojoe it works great. I have both the quest 2 and pico 4 and prefer the pico 4 for productivity as the fov is a little more immersive.
Waiting to see what samsung does is gonna keep you outta vr, think of your old headset as a consumable and step into the new gen
@@redherring5532 I thought samsung had something in the works for this year, the odyssey plus was such a great piece of kit that im holding out hope for them. Also i've already been outta vr for a couple years😞 I am getting very tempted by the pico but won't be able to afford it until october at least in which case waiting for black friday is probably the move. I will never get a quest because facebook and it feels like a downgrade going from displayport connection to usb connection
do anyone know how to fix this problem? i had problems with streaming assistant for awhile but know it suddenly seemed to work with steam. except that the headset itself just don´t get past the loading screen, have anyone else had this problem?
I know it’s not relevant to the video Karl, but really looking forward to your review of the Logitech Pro. 😊
I should get onto that this coming week mate!
@@KarlGosling excellent stuff, hope you’re feeling much better now 👍
can you watch movies and explorer the internet besides games on the pico 4 headset like you can on the quest 2.and what other headsets will do that besides the quest 2.
Hi. How do you perceive compression over the cable? Is it better than terrible on Quest 2?
It's not bad but not great either, Q2 bitrate can be adjusted up but this currently cannot.
So I’m looking to buy a PC to pair and stream PCVR games with my recently ordered PICO4, and I’m wondering what the best graphics cards, chips, and amount of RAM I should look to get to pair for the highest quality PICO4 VR experience?
Great video btw! Super informative and practical 🙌🏽
Simple answer is buy the very best you can afford mate, it literally takes the best available to run VR really well.
Would PCVR on my pico improve downloaded video quality by any chance? If so would you recommend virtual desktop??
Unfortunately for me, I lose the fps, but the image quality always stays poor when messing with the steam resolution slider,
I'm surprised that I'm yet to receive a single update to the headset, despite getting one of the first lot shipped
Oh thats interesting, for me it's night and day difference! Which of course it should be.
Yeah I'm curious what sort of update schedule we're going to see, a lack of support would kill this headset as there's a few things that need sorting out.
There have been a number of updates since launch…. I’ve had 2 in the last 2 weeks…. Are u checking manually??
May I ask you how does the ASW (async spacewarp) option performs with the Pico software? Because in my opinion in the Quest software (debug tool) doesn't work very well (it still gives me a lot of stutter)...so maybe Pico has a better implementation?
Thanks
I don't think ASW works well on any platform, visual artefacts and stuttering in my experience.
Hi man. Is using virtual desktop with a usb wired connectiom ok?
Is Virtual Desktop the PC Steam app run on PC or the one you buy from inside of Pico’s Store run on Pico 4? Thanks.
You need both installed, pc and on pico 4, that’s how they connect.
I still call 720P "HD", just use add "true" when referring to 1080p :>
I mostly use my pc for flight simulator. I’m very interested in buying the pico, but my wifi is clearly too bad. Do you have any experience with the pico in the fs2020? Would appreciate any information.
I've not tried it yet mate.
I purchased the Pico yesterday and I coming from an old HTC VIVE, the resolution is much better but the colors are very gray, for example I prefer my old HTC VIVE in terms of color and PCVR quality feeling was better VIVE in my opinion maybe I will change my mind in a few days of testing
There are videos with DCS and Msfs on pico4 .
doesn't STEAM VR only do supersampling if the resolution is set to a higher value than 100% ? So the render resolution of the game will be higher, but then being downscaled by STEAM VR to 2160 x 2160, since the Pico Streaming Assistant reports this resolution to STEAM VR. The headset will then only get a 2160 x 2160 image,which still should look not as sharp as with the mamimum quality in Virtual Desktop. You will see the difference due to supersampling, but there is also additional GPU time and memory needed, because of the additional scaling. Especially on GPUs with 8GB of VRAM this becomes an issue if you try to play at a decent quality.
Basically streaming assistant or even Virtual desktop both will do compression so doesn't matter what is rendering, there will always be compression and what you said is correct, the PC will render higher but what is sent to the headset is just native resolutio (compressed), otherwise if they had native solution like DP port it will be more crisp than even G2,
Yeah to keep it short Pico SA just "recommends" a render resolution to SVR, we can then increase that for a much better image, it's then encoded as a video (think Netflix, MKV, MP4, etc.) and streamed to the Pico 4 which at this point is effectively just a "video player" like VLC, MPC-HC, etc....
Regards SS you're not really in real SS territory until you hit say 6320x6320 as the RR (remember we render a larger image for barrel correction), this would be close to what we would call 2xSS when talking flat panel displays.
@@TRX25EX the compression is a different story. A compressed image can look as sharp and crisp as the uncompressed version if the encoding quality and bitrate is high enough. This is why you won't see any difference in image quality between uncompressed and ProRes422 for instance. This is why this codec is described as "visually lossless". But even HEVC or AV1 can compress the image without any visual differences. Using HEVC (on NVIDIA GPUs) with a bitrate of 150Mbit is already very good and the sharpness is very close to uncompressed. It also depends on the game. In Half Life Alyx for instance i can't see any difference between the DP mode on the Pico 3 and maximum Virtual Desktop settings and on the Pico 4 the image is sharper and clearer than on Pico 3 in DP mode. In other games (e.g. No Man's Sky loading starfield scene) i can see some color banding due to the limited color range of the compressed stream. Nevertheless, there is a technical difference, if you see this or not just depends on the compression quality and your own preference.
Using Virtual Desktop on the Pico 4 the image being transferred to the headset is not native, but the rendered image, which is 3120 x 3120 pixels per eye in maximum quality. Any barrel distortion correction is done in the headset. I am not exactly sure how Oculus Link handles this because the render resolution on the headset is always 1840 x 1920 pixels, which matches the display resolution, no matter what i set up in the resolution settings in the Oculus software. It feels very sharp though on high resolution settings.
But with the Pico streaming assistant and STEAM VR resolution set to 3160 x 3160 i still can only notice anti-aliasing and the sharpness does not come anyway near Virtual Desktop at highest resolution. So i guess with the Pico software the image is being rendered using STEAM VR supersampling, then downscaled to 2160 x 2160 and this image is being transfered to the Pico but still needs to be barrel distortion corrected.
@@KarlGosling i don't think this is how it works. The headset driver software reports STEAM VR the maximum render resolution and no matter how high you set the resolution scaling above 100% in STEAM VR it will always be downscaled to 100% and then transferred to the driver. So even if you set the STEAM VR resolution to 105% this is supersampling relative to the resolution the driver reports as maximum. This will have anti-aliasing effects but does not increase the actual resolution being processed by the headset. I tested this on the Pico 4 with STEAM VR set to 3160 x 3160 and the image looks smoother but nowhere near the sharpness i could get with Virtual Desktop.
Thanks for the info! Do you think my 3070ti GPU is strong enough to handle the increase to 3160 x 3160?
No mate, my 3080 struggles in most games at that.
the problem with your audio is to do with the audio channel you choice on your pc. as I had the same issue and how i fixed it was, I changed the audio channel to my headphones then my audio on the pico headset would be much clearer and not distorted at all, you can change it to the pico headset also in your audio channel opinations also at bottom right of your task bar on your pc this will also make clearer but don't have it coming out any speaker or anything like that as if you do this will make the audio 50x worse
I tried all of this at the time without success... but in my recent review on the latest firmware this does now fix it.
I am considering purchasing VR goggles and have one question.
I ask because I see a racing sim with triple monitors.
I heard that if I set up a triple 65" monitor 80cm away from my eyes and set the FOV to 80 degrees, I can see the same size as the real car.
What do you think of the size of the image seen by Pico4?
Does it look the same size as the actual car?
Does it look like a scaled-down image like a 27-inch triple monitor?
Size and scale are correct but FOV is much much less than triple 65"s or even 55"'s like I have.
Oh and tripe 27"s should not be scaled down, they must have just not been set up correctly.... I have a video on this.
Thanks for the advice.
you can't compare triple screens with VR. The FOV in VR is less (except the Pimax headsets) but the feeling is way more real in VR. The FOV of the Pico4 is 105 ° which is not bad. There will come new foam replacements soon, more comfortable and allowing better FOV.
Triple Screens show a bigger area, but they are expensive and need a lot of space. For me, VR is the better experience
Thanks for the advice.
I have experienced PICO4.
I am concerned about the screen door.
The picture quality is not good.
I stopped buying PICO4 after learning about the many problems in other review videos.
Maybe something to add Karl, is that I would assume the pico streaming assistant uses H264 for compression rather than HVEC of virtual desktop. That could make a huge difference to the overall picture quality. Guy Godin says 150mb HVEC is like 500mb H264.
I actually believe it uses H265 (HVEC) from my research, but otherwise yes thats correct!
I've just built a pc for vr. And thinking of getting pico 4. Do you think my i7 13700, RTX 3090 would run pico at 3160 render resolution? I've seen some saying you need a 4090 for pico 4?
Depending on game you will not be able to run it flat out no, but you'll still get a great experience, I do with my 3080 just can't max it out.
i also have the weird audio problem, sounds like its constantly clipping and artifacting, it sounds really bad and almost makes me want to return the headset unless i can fix it
Very common using the streaming assistant I think mate.
Have you actually seen a clarity increase when setting the steamvr resolution to 3100x3100? For me it still doesn't come close to the clarity of Virtual Desktop when setting to a similar resolution
Of course, why do you think I produced the video?! lol
No it won't do, it's still compressed at a low bitrate but increasing the RR makes a massive difference, if you can't tell then you may have not correctly set it, if the sequence is not done exactly right it will not take effect.
@@KarlGosling So is anything in this sequence different from you have done: I connect to the Pico SA using 90hz HD, then change the resolution in SteamVR to 3160x3160, then exit SteamVR and reconnect and it still looks much lower quality than Virtual Desktop. Are you seeing a similar quality to Virtual Desktop or is it still lower?
Would prescription lenses fit over the two screens....?
If and when some are made we'll have to see, until then I don't know mate.
I just ordered a set from VR Optician. Haven't received them yet, but looks like they will attach with magnets.
Would you consider VD a better option over Pico connect?
100%
This doesn't seem to change the resolution of the headset. It stays at 2160x2160. You can clearly see that by checking desktop texts; they stay as blurry no matter what resolution you put in steamvr and boot. Are you sure it's working for you?
like the steamvr shows 3160x3160 but the texts and graphics ingame look the same. Tried changing resolution in the .ini file but it just added distortion.
The difference is night and day, I think you have skipped a step in my instructions mate... plus to confirm the RR change just look at the SVR performance graph, the ms will double depending on your GPU and what RR you have chosen.
Question, have they fixed this issue yet 6 months on?
You'll find out soon enough as I have a brand new one here right now!
I have the same audio issue with streaming assistent so it’'s not just you
i have that same audio distortion too with streaming assistant, totally unusable. When i start same app (deovr) from virtual desktop no distortion. [rtx 3080, ryzen 5900x, 32gb ram]
Are so at least it's not just me then! lol
Is the pick 4 coming to the US because when I look it up it saids that there is no plans to release the pick 4 to the US?
Currently no plans yes.
You can edit an .ini ti improve bitrate. I am playing at 212mb.
Would be helpful to tell us all which .ini file mate?
@@KarlGosling There are some setting inside this file but I didn't test yet C:\Program Files\Streaming Assistant\driver\bin\win64\RVRPlugin.ini
Thanks for the video. Things are much clearer now. Makes sense. I have a poor Vega8 iGPU which is nowhere near the SteamVR-ready category (tho it has 4GB dedicated VRAM), but rest of my system is decent enough (Ryzen9, 8core/16threads, 32GB RAM). So I wanted to ask if that setup is ok for streaming movies and my windows desktop environment, either in Virtual Desktop or Streaming assistant, or both?
I currently run ultra-wide 3440x1440 resolution @144Hz, so my iGPU seems to be able to push those pixels at a high rate. But then again, I'm aware all these must first be compressed and then sent over the network (I prefer wireless transfer), so I'm wondering if there could be some issues? On the network side, I have a dedicated 5Ghz 802.11ac router, and my PC is on 1Gbit LAN, so this should also be good. I'm just wondering if my setup could handle this scenario, or whether I should upgrade my system/GFX first? I wouldn't want to purchase Pico 4 and VD and set this all up only to see that the end result is trash..
buy a 3000 series nvidia gpu like a 3080, you wont be able to run it on an igpu, your cpu will suffer
Yeah that iGPU is not enough for a good VR experience mate, the PICO runs around 20 million pixels (3160x3160 x2) compared to your currents displays 5 million so literally quadruple! It would work but you'd be running a low render resolution and in game settings too.
@@KarlGosling Yeah, I know this iGPU is only good enough for Windows itself and some older games rendering on "2D" displays. But I thought only 3160x3160 will be enough for the Pico, and not x2/per eye! That doubles the pixel count one more time (quadrupling it as you said it). In the former case, I was counting on 10M pixels only where the difference between 90Hz on the Pico and 144Hz on my monitor would make the Pico rendering requirements only about 25-50% more than my iGPU is pushing right now.
I guess I will have to do some tests before putting my hands deep into my pocket. I'll try compressing 6320x3160 some video with both H264/265 codecs at different bitrates to see if it goes anywhere near "real-time" (@30fps, while I need it ideally @90fps), and if it does, I think it would mean I still have some chance to see the picture clearly on Pico displays. And just to be clear, when you mentioned "in-game settings", I won't even try SteamVR because it would be suicide. I "just" want my PC desktop environment "mirrored" to my (future) Pico.
@@vaxui I would buy it if I could plug it somewhere :) If that's the only solution, I would need to change my entire (recently purchased) system, which is a bit overkill for what I'm trying to do..
Just to confirm that mirroring my PC desktop environment to Pico works perfectly at 90fps without any issues whatsoever. Picture quality is excellent with no visible audio or video delay. And regarding streaming videos from my PC, someone could've told me that I don't have to worry about that, since the Pico video app does more than a decent job at decoding the video on the Pico itself. Actually, video decoding performs better on XR2 than on my Ryzen9 8core/16threads LoL :) Me happy. As for the full-blown PCVR game titles, that's a whole other story, and I know I can't expect anything from that poor iGPU.
arent they pushing the already proper distorted view to the hmd, so the hmd would not even need to distort it so 2160x2160 is the max.
The HMD does not do anything, it's just "playing a video" when using it for PCVR.
The lenses are what distort the image (pin cushion) and so it needs to be rendered the opposite (barrel correction) to counter this or we'd see a warped image.
they really need to bump the bitrate up to be on par with the q2 link at a few more hundred mbps. The artifacting at 100mbps or VD's 150 even, is somewhat driving me nuts comparing it to my old q2 running at 300 mbps.
I've watched your barrel correction video and this video, but I still don't see how it makes sense to render at 3160x3160 per eye given that the Pico 4 displays only have 2160x2160 per eye.
How do you think the Pico 4 uses those extra pixels?
Then perhaps watch them again mate, or maybe do some Googling if my video's are not clear enough.... But the long and short of it is that the image is rendered larger than the physical panels then reshaped to fit, this is because of how the lenses "look" at the displays in the HMD... your thinking in terms of traditional monitors and thats not how VR works mate.
@@KarlGosling Sorted the question out. As far as I can tell, it's not about barrel correction or getting to a true 1 pixel to 1 pixel correspondance, it's simply supersampling. Thanks mate
4:27 yooo kitti
Good spot!
@@KarlGosling yeaa we need more kittys pls👀
I’ve got a 7600xt and every time I change the quality setting in the pico streaming app on the pc to something other than SD, every game I run freaks out and stutters and crashes.
I realise the 7600xt is no 4090 but it should certainly be able to box above SD quality.
Any ideas anyone?
It's probably the streaming app, use virtual desktop instead mate.
i have an rtx 2060, is it good enough to play with higher graphics then normal ????
No not even close mate sorry.
@@KarlGosling can i still play on normal or do i have to make the settings on low ?
I wish Virtual Desktop supported link cable
Video on this coming mate! ;)
I am currenty trying to figure out, what different substances does to us, and I just have to ask, do you drink coffee?
I am suspecting coffe may cause breathing issues.
i tried the streaming assistant but nevwer got it to work, dont really understand how people are even able to make them work tbh so i had to buy the virtual desktop app
The problem of Pico Streaming Assistant is not the resolution, it's bitrate. As far as I know, it's max bitrate is less than 100Mbps. So no matter how more resolution you set it never gets the best quality of Pico 4. Also it's not certain what kind of codec the streaming assistant use to compress and decompress the images. For now the only way to max out pico4 is Virtual Desktop. You should see the pictures with max settings (1200Mbps wifi connection, Godlike rendering with RTX4090, 150Mbps bitrate, 100% sharpness, HEVC codec), it's just mind blowing.
As you can see in this very video it is resolution mate, 100Mbps is actually not that bad but not that great either, higher would be better if you can deal with the latency of course.
It uses H265.
Even at those settings it's far from mind blowing (I've of course tried it) as compared to a hardwired PCVR headset the compression is still noticeable and there is still some latency.
I have that same setup and it still looks like you have a dryer sheet over the lenses lmao wish there was just a wired version, I don’t get why people have such a problem with wired headsets, like where am I taking the shit, am I going on a hike with my VR headset? Literally everybody that plays VR chat plays it sitting down, everybody I know that owns a VR headset plays it sitting down, the only time I ever stand up as if I’m playing Pavlov because for whatever fucking reason they don’t have a sitting down option, this headset literally looks identical to my quest to because the bit rate is so low, and there’s not really anything that I want on the store native
How do you get a 1200Mbps wifi connection?
I turn off Pico sound and use PC speakers to get extra Video quality then the streaming is much better too.
pico 4 not as smooth as quest 2? Still less smooth or any update
Hows the color compare to Quest 2? I heard pico 4 color is dull compare to it
On virtual desktop, pico is better. The blacks are darker and colors pop.
I cover this in my review but TLDW I think as Mo says, slightly better.
I only used a Quest 2 like once long ago, but... I don't have any issues with the Pico 4's colours. I do come from an HP Reverb G2 and rather than the colours not popping as much, the first thing I noticed was the blacks being slightly better. The G2's truly awful in that regard (IMO).
@@thenonexistinghero do you notice compressed image on pico 4 compare to HP Reverb G2?
@@ji3200 Quite honestly, for the games I play I don't notice any compression most of the time. For Half-Life Alyx it's most noticable when looking at at a clear sky, but outside of that... pretty much thing.
I did hear that it's fairly noticable for SIM games and well... sim games do tend to have those sky views and whatnot a lot (like Microsoft Flight Simulator and racing games). Can't say I've tried any of them, in VR so I can't say personally.
I can only say that at least for most games outside of simulation games, there is no noticable compression most of the time. Of course, it does depend on your setup. I'm streaming with the highest quality option in Virtual Desktop and I have an RTX 3080 Ti in my PC. I only use 5 GHz Wifi and not 6 GHz, but I'm just a few meters away from my router and it makes pretty much no difference in this situation. If your hardware is worse or if you're further away from your router, especially a 5 GHz router, your experience might not be as mine.
Hi karl! A question. I have I5 9600K and AMD 5600xt. It is worth it to go for Pico 4 or my system can not handle it at all? Thanks.
It would give you an average experience, certainly not maxed out.
Karl, a question not related to the Pico but rather to the 3 displays you have in the background: how can you blend those into a single display? They are different size. I have also different size 3 Monitors and I can't get Nvidia surround to work, nor other solutions.
It is only the perspective. They are all the same. He has many videos about that setup, search for them on the channel, worth watching.
Yeah as said they are the same size, all 55".
@@KarlGosling thanks a lot. On the Pico review: brilliant, I'm actually considering upgrading from Quest2 based on you reviews which I thoroughly trust. I would use it mainly for MSFS and DCS, but also roomscale like Alyx.
@@BadDanMe yes indeed. I have the central which is 3440x1440 and the side ones are 2560x1440. For me, Surround does not work and I'm struggling to have a 3-display setup working. in MSFS the 2 side windows are not matching and the FPS hit is severe.
@@annoluce71 As far as I know, Surroundvision simply does not work with different resolution displays.
Whether using SA or VD, whether wired or wireless, the image quality stays piss poor for me. It looks alright on the desktop in VR if I use VD, but as soon as SteamVR opens up it looks like everything's been greased in vasoline. Doesn't matter what I change the render resolution in SteamVR to; nothing seems to change whatsoever. I'm at wit's end.
If only Sony had made the PSVR2 PC compatible, they may have owned the market with it!!
And wireless!
Not happening. Sony want to sell loads of PS5's and expensive exclusive VR titles. They don't want you to play hundreds of "cheap" Steam VR games off your PC.
One tiny detail you forgot to mention: it doesn't seem possible to run virtual desktop over the USB connection.
USB seems to only work with PICO's streaming assistant which has terrible image quality.
You can run VD wired mate, or at least you could a few months ago... I haven't tried it recently as I play wireless though so may have changed.
@@KarlGosling I spent the last few days reading every Reddit post and watching every YT tutorial. Even when installing an APK on the headset to fully unlock USB tethering and all other Android options, the moment you disconnect from WIFI it also disconnects VD. Something's changed. Anyhow, my main gripes with the Pico are the tiny slippery inaccurate controllers which I find unusable for fast paced Beat Saber sessions. Since that's 50% of my play time, I'll be returning the Pico.
I bought Pico 4 to upgrade my PCVR from Rift S, but when I tested it yesterday with Streaming assistant and took screenshots. Must say I was dissapointed because there were no difference to Rift S screenshots at all (both were bit over 1500x1500 resolution). I think it is because of that SteamVR resolution. I tried to change it during gameplay, but it didn't make any difference.
Also tried Virtual desktop, but there you see the latency immediately if you play games like Zaccaria Pinball etc. where every ms counts. btw.. great videos Karl.
Yeah you need to change it in SteamVR then restart the Pico connection, I've a video on this as it makes a huge difference!
@@KarlGosling how do you restart the pico connection? Also I have bought a U.S.bc cable to connect other end to my headset? Is that I good way to go?
Is
this sound like an incresing in latency by a far !!
is that the case ?
No, it has no effect on input latency, only frame rate (GPU load).. if your GPU can't run well at a higher res (hold 90fps) then you need to reduce it.
So the PICO is steam limited on PC then ?? Looks like I will be sending it back then when it arrives later, gutted.
No mate, you can use VD if you play wireless.
Pico just needs to get the Virtual Desktop guy to write the software natively.
That would sort it wouldn't it! lol
Streaming Assistant bitrate absolutely sucks both on wireless and wired.
HD is still 720P, FHD is 1080P :)
Ohh yes FHD! lol It's been so long I'd forgotten about that one.... but these days HD is most commonly 1080p as I don't think you can even buy a decent 720p display?!
Virtual desktop is the best way to Play wireless on both pico 4 and quest
Sure is! This video is about wired PCVR though.
Wrong
I run OpenComposite with OpenXR toolkit.
10 minutes to say something that anybody with steamVR already knew...
"I couldn't get that resolution even with my 3080"
Me with 3060: Well, I guess it's smooth for me
man I have 3080 and runing 1 *144hz 4k and 2*120hz4k at the same time with no lag all HDR
Looks like you're gonna have to get a 4090
I'm waiting on the 4080 to see how close it is first!
I have to say: All my PCVR titles are running buttersmooth in 4160 x 4160. And I dont have an rtx 4090. I have to say I havent played half life alyx on it. And the graphicscard I am using is an Rx 6600. Thats a mid range Amd GPU I bought for 350€ one or two years ago. But Amd has always had better VR performance. But dont get me wrong! When doing rendering or artistic stuff Nvidia is lots better
BUT:
I have some weard artifacts around the screen where the image gets weard
Yeah, you've a lot of great information but it is given at speed so, I recommend you break down info into basic terms accompanied with screenshots to aid when giving instructional presentations otherwise, it's in danger of being a tsunami of data that's hard to visualise and act on.
PICO 4 was a huge let down for me because of the Streaming Assistant. Iam about to test Virtual Desktop, hoping it will save this awesome hardware. Then I will decide, if I sell my Quest 2, or return/sell my PICO 4.
VD Works great, although still not quite as smooth as it is on Q2 IME.
Hi, how its goiing with your VD test? I'm very disappointed with the PICO 4, I still prefer my old VIVE, can VD fix the problem?
@@vahida6146 it works great with it, just as with Quest 2, but the deal breaker for me was still some latency, noticable in games like Beat Saber, which Iam playing a lot, so wired Quest 2 is still a way to go for me
@@cv3nda367 Thank you for your quick answer, what about the colors can VD fix that? Currently it very grayish comprated to my VIVE.
@@vahida6146 I think that VIVE has AMOLED display, while Quest 2 and PICO 4 have not
I have a laptop I dont have much of a choice now