A clone…is a copy. I have never been in the market for a synth over $1k. I’ve never earned enough to have that kind of expendable income. Behringer gave me an entry point into making electronic music with hardware synthesizers. Happy to report none of my Behringer synths have crapped out on me over the last 3 years despite hauling them around in precariously packed suitcases for shows. I’ve just never attributed my inspiration to a brand. I feel inspired by other artists and by the world around me. Uli kind of sucks as a person and could have greatly benefited from a PR team to dissuade him from making an ass out of himself and his company, but at the end of the day, for me, instruments are just tools. I don’t identify with my gear. I don’t identify with my car or with my phone. Maybe it’s because I take these things a little bit for granted as a millennial? In terms of synthesizers, all the classics came out before I was born, so I don’t know what it must have been like when they were freshly introduced into the market.
In the late 1990's I bought a Behringer guitar pedal and it turned me off to their products. However, I now have a Poly D, 2600, Odyssey, RD-8, RD-9 and Pro One. Great synths. Fun. They are like Lamborghini's with Pontiac Fiero engines. You know you are driving a kit car that looks cool. They also sound great. They don't all sound alike. The Pro-One and Poly D are superior. I really wish they wouldn't announce products until they are being built and one step away from shipping. I don't care about what a company, or anyone else, is "planning to do". None of the Behringer products were available when I first saw them and it was months or over a year before some of them became available.
Personally, I own a Behringer DeepMind 12. I do think that the synth’s design is pretty visionary. Sure, you could say that it’s based on a copy of the Roland Juno 106, but that’s selling this thing short, because the synth itself goes way deeper than anything that Roland has done with their Junos or Jupiters. I think that what Behringer has done is to fill a niche for those of us who don’t have a ton of cash, but who have serious gear lust for vintage gear without having to pay vintage gear prices (which are absolutely insane), and aren’t particularly excited about running software synths. As for synths, I think that Behringer has taken the route that Roland sadly hasn’t taken, and listened to their customers who wanted something that wasn’t basically a software synthesizer in a plastic housing. They’re successful with their synths because they actively listen to their customer base, and try to give people what they’re asking for. That’s admirable, to me. I also came from the “Behringer is cheaply made garbage” school of thought, previously. The DM12 has definitely changed my opinion of Behringer as a synth company.
They have some interesting instruments.. but most of them just lack character. I have not seen one piece that they took from roland that roland didn’t have a better answer for. The ACB tech is amazing. Even the boutique 303 is on another level then the TD. There is too much character missing from these copys. Yes they are close.. and I personally don’t care if they sound exact or not.. but the lack of character, depth, and timing… just isn’t worth it to me. Roland’s choice with ACB is very smart for sustainability . And it will only get better.
@@djcolinturnbull The prob I have w the boutiques is not acb itself, it's the 4 voice polyphony limit. It's just a matter of time before re-issues with higher voice counts that will render the the current line obsolete. I guess that won't be a factor for the mono units at least.
Behringer is about to release their version of the super rare RSF Kobol keyboard (only 200 originals were made). Also, RSF no longer exists as a company. With that said, Behringer even collaborated with the actual designer of the original Kobol during the development process. Despite the other products Behringer have released in the past, I think remaking the Kobol is a great move. The Kobol is so rare and inaccessible that very few people will ever get a chance to actually see or play one on person, let alone own one. No other company has ever attempted to clone the RSF Kobol keyboard, making the Behringer version the only viable or practical way to obtain it. This is definitely a synth I will purchase from Behringer. They are literally in the process of bringing an almost forgotten synth back to life and making it available and affordable for many. The point I'm making here is not all of the choices Behringer make regarding their products are unethical.
I wish Behring would focus more on this real legacy stuff, where the original company and also no follow-up company whatsoever ist existing anymore. I am thinking of the Synthex specifically here.
Come on…you have to stop this. What is your goal with Behringer bashing? They build the instruments that are no longer available for most. There is simply no ARP around that you can just buy and take home…unless you are willing to pay insane amounts of money for it. So…just stop the rants: Behringer products are making old synth structures available for average folks and they enjoy using them. Why denying them the fun? Beyond that…I am 100% sure that you will have a hard time to differentiate in a blind test software, Behringer and Moog etc. products. I have only one Behringer synth - which is the neutron and I am not using it often. But that doesn’t matter: it was fun to figure out how it works, stick some cables into the patch field and let it just go. I can tell you that I really tried hard to “love” Moog synths but sorry to tell you: they did not much innovate in the recent decades. Playing one is nostalgic and fun but not the “only thing in the world”. I am using the emulations all the time (the arturia) and they sound great - and they travel with me in my laptop….something that is 100% impossible otherwise.
Let me just say this. At the end of the day we decide what is good for us. I am not a professional and just have fun playing around with the sound and most of the time have my record button off. It's just happaned to be that behringer gear and roland d series synths are in my price range. Sure, i will cheer Behringer for letting me have access to those toys. On the other hand, if i would have the talent and do this professionally, my price range would go up. I totally understand and feel where Jeff comes from, and did not feel anything wrong when i watched that video. I respect Jeff, and even had a chance to record one of his live ahows at Herbs. Ironically, i used x32 rack:), wich is also ironically died lat week, mostly sitting in a basement not doing much. :).. Making those videos are not easy, and thank you Jeff for the content you create. If you are still in Denver, allow me to invite you for a beer or two. !!!
I have a 2600 and Pro 1. There's no way I'll get the Arp 2600 and Pro 1(no midi) originals in 2023. I need those two to compliment my Access TI2 and Analog Four.
I don't own any synthesizers. I have one little Yamaha keyboard and a larger, older Yamaha keyboard. One of my earliest musical influences though, and one of my earliest synth influences, was the Moog synth chip in the Commodore 64.
the most important thing is the music in our heads... whatever brand gets us there is the thing. I will eventually have a Moog in my collection, because I too respect and would love to have one...but in the meantime Uli's company has given me many more resources than I would ever had with Mr. Moog's.
Absolutely agree! I own some Moogs, Behringers, Roland, Korg, Emu, Yamaha, Casio, etc. I continue to learn new techniques on all of them combining them with guitar effect pedals and loving honing my craft and sound. Have fun! Make music with what YOU have. Non- musicians could care less about what product made the songs. Reality.
What about Sequential Circuits and Moog for copying their designs? I suppose the patents ran out long about, but what about trade dress? I'm considering the Pro 800 and returning my Prophet 10 module, 1/7 or so the price. I do have qualms....
That’s a big one! I would suggest if you order the Pro 800, to spend some time with both the Prophet and the Behringer together, and listen to the results. I’d hate to see you make a decision you regret! I’m anxious to see your decision!
@@allkeyspro6606 Yes, I am hoping the Pro 800 arrives in time to do that! I'm a total rookie on synth (but like you, a longtime musician, sax, piano (+50 years), recently guitar), so I'm not as adept as a real synth pro in ferreting out the differences. So it's going to be on SOUND first and foremost. I do like stack & split but the workaround for that is VST or just Rhodes, etc. (I have an 88 key stage 1974), also a 1969 Hammond E-112).
Great video and excellent points, thank you! While I agree with what you are saying in principle, and I applaud that your conscience and desire for authenticity guides you, but for me, a big challenge as a citizen of the 3rd world (I live in South Africa), is that the majority of our young musicians, who live in abject poverty in comparison to most in the 1st world, have no real option. Even the major consumer brands (Roland, Korg, Yamaha etc) are simply unaffordable for most. Moog, Oberheim, Nord, etc are just not even in the ballpark for our economy. For many, the only chance of getting their hands on a synth for pro or semi pro use, would be an instrument in the price range of the cheaper Behringers. Personally, I am extremely privileged, and even though Moog and Oberheim are beyond even my my reach, I own Roland, Korg and Nord keyboards to earn my daily bread, and I do not own (or need to own) any Behringer gear. This is sadly not the case, for many aspiring synth heads in our country. Not saying I like the manufacturer and the product, but I can forgive those who are forced to either compromise, or simply go without.
You said Ben Johnson but I'm pretty sure you meant Benn Jordan. Otherwise, you make some salient points. However, sometimes you're broke and a $30 delay pedal is all you can afford.
I own some vintage polys some very unique like my beloved Kawai SX240. That being said, I enjoyed the neutron (unique) and my D by behringer. Great sounding powerful analogs at a low price is great, especially not having any issues with the.
I agree with everything you said. It makes sense. That said, I wanted a TR-909 and the new Roland version sounds off to me and has tiny knobs. The Behringer RD-9 has a very similar layout to the original and sounds great. It even has some added tuning features not on the original. I wanted a minimoog but it’s much too expensive for me as a hobbyist. The Poly D sounds so good and it was very inexpensive. It also has 4 oscillators, paraphony, good sequencer and the Juno-60 chorus built in. It’s a copy but it’s also a unique instrument in a lot of ways. And a LOT of people have copied that 4 pole filter which is key to the minimoog sound. Even ARP copied it for the original 2600 and had to change it. You are going to see a lot of Behringer supporters because of the price. Honda sells a lot more Civics than they do of the Acura NSX. Most musicians aren’t pro and have limited budgets. You could argue that a lot of Behringer customers aren’t even musicians, they just like turning knobs and making sounds. And I think that’s fine. Better than scrolling on social media all day.
Glad you mentioned the fact others have copied parts of the Moog as well,which no one else has spoken on. It's also a fact that even if someone buys a Moog One, Moog D, Yamaha CS80, that does not make them a musician nor create good music.
Behringer has always straight up copied others' products. They started by ripping off Mackie mixers in the I think early to mid 90s. People say "oh they make stuff affordable", but that's really easy to do if you just straight up copy everyone else. The last product of theirs I tried was the XR18 mixer for live use (which was basically a copy of other companies' ideas). They touted it as having wireless iPad control. The wireless was really old tech, slow and used old wireless encryption protocols that had been hacked about a decade earlier and was unusable. I wrote them about it and asked if this was possible to upgrade (like on a separate board internally), and got a terse response saying just add an external wireless router. Then what was the point of putting that in if it's unusable? Buy another product used. As far as synths, get software and use a controller if you want an old synth sound. I won't use anything else they put out since that's how they treat you after you've spent money with them. They really don't have ideas.
I almost posted a comment on your last vid, somewhat in defence of Behringer, but then decided not to. I do that sometimes. I have a bunch of their synths, and they sound really good, are cheap, and are a way for me to get my hands on gear that I wouldn't be able to afford, and also get to learn the work flow of analogue synths. Your criticism of Behringer the company is fine though. You can like some of their gear, and dislike their practices and even Uli Behringer himself, or dislike the whole shebang if you want to. Viv la difference'. Moog, I do like their gear, I would like to get one or two of their synths. I can't say I know much of their company though, but in the end, I can't afford to buy their stuff. Having said that, I'm a tad hypocritical as I have spent Moog level money on a Polybrute (I love that thing!) and a Nord Electro 6b. Perhaps it's what the gear can do/cover that I am spending the money on. Having said all that, I'd love a Matriarch one day, and in future will dream about the Moog One. I do hope that they stay in business in something close to their current form. Anyway, you just keep on putting your thoughts out there.
I have a 1974 Minimoog Model D. I write and record with it, but dont take it out live. I picked up a Poly D to take its place live because someone could A. Dick with it, B. It could get damaged, and C. It could get stolen. I wouldnt like it, but I'd rather any of the above happen to the Poly D... Its affordable enough, I can go get another. I also have the bARP 2600. To me, when set up in the same configuration, both the Poly D and the 2600 sound the same (as in the Oscillators and Filters sound the same). I'd be willing to bet that All Behringer synths are the same synth, just in different costume - sliders instead of knobs, a few extras here and there, but basically the same synth. No need to pixk up a Monopoly or a Kobol, because I already have those...they just look like a 2600 or Mini...
I buy synths to make the music I want, regardless of brand, and that includes behringer. Whereas I can agree with some of the ethical points as a hobbyist who does this for my own enjoyment I think there are far more important ethical choices to be made in the 21st century than who makes a synth I like the sound off for me. If theres a version made by another company, like the Oddy and the MS Ive went with the Korg options, but it certainly wasnt for build quality as I find the behringers are actually better built than Korgs at a certain level. As far as I know this cloning/copying is coming to an end now, then going forward it will be original designs, whether this is true or not I guess we’ll see, but I doubt it will change the mind of their detractors. Their behaviour in the past is not one I commend, but if they can avoid doing it again Ive no real problem with pissing off people, but bullying journalists was a step too far.
I don't think B is trying to win the hearts of the seasonal pro's like yourself, people who devote their whole life in making music, dedication and maintain their big budget studios. Please do us a favor and get a proper gear that will not fail. They are trying to capitalize on the yet untapped market. The rest of us who aren't pros but can only dream of being one. The bedroom musicians, amateurs. Sadly I will never make money with my gear. That dream is almost unobtainable (at my age) and is too saturated with people (and media) to break through the algorithms and make in the industry which in itself is corrupted as well. I understand the point you are saying and I don't like the way B acts but that action creates movement in the market, excitement, hope it will offend some, many companies show their true colors by going WOKE. I would like see how many skeletons is in others closet too. How many people re-invent a wheel (an oscillator)? Should a company not be allowed to use others people ideas for how to build an oscillator design from the past using their own circuit boards design to accommodate a different form factor and manufacturing technology. Doesn't look quite that easy task like people imagine. B has potential to become innovative in the future. Didn't Uli design his own synth when he was a teen? He got passion for Synths! for now they just listen to us, copy, learn
Why are people so precious about synthesizer circuitry? People have been begging companies like Roland to redo some of their old products for decades. They just ignore it. The price of a mono synth was high 40 to 50 years ago because the tech was more expensive. Microprocessors, chips are generally more widely available now. A moog d isn’t magical. It’s just a circuit. If you want fancy furniture on it and assembled in the u.s. that’s fine pay high dollar. A company like behringer is filling a void in the market that has been there for quite a while. The way things are going they will probably be the biggest hardware synth seller in the world for some time.
Imagine if some tryhard made a 1980s home PC reproduction and charged $20,000 for it. 1970s tech that pretty much only creates novelty sounds is worth almost nothing today.
@@saltykraut I don't spend more than $500 for an analog monosynth because that is ridiculous. Sold a CS-30 and Pro-One went with Bass Station II and Pro-1.
I think we can all agree that Behringer's business model and practice of cloning gear that's still in production, is bad for the industry and ultimately the consumer. If you had just stuck to that argument you'd have a case. But your criticism of how Behringer synths sound is unfounded. The Model D sounds great as does the out of production Wasp for $200. Compare those synths to others in that price range and there's no competition. For most people it's more realistic to get a Behringer model D and an Elektron Analog heat (or Stymon Deco), than it is to spent over 5k for a Moog Model D re-issue. I have a little phatty and nothing else sounds like it but synths can be like people, each one have it's own character. and to expect them to all chase the same sound is the wrong approach.
All you do is talk trash about them and now you’re like “but I don’t hate them, really.” Your a funny guy. I’m still cracking up at the “national tragedy” line. What happens one day if they close their doors? “It’s the end of civilization as we know it.” 😊
Just took delivery of my new Toro. It's a no brainer. It sounds exactly like a Taurus 1 and it was 249$. Looks amazing too. I love what Behringer is doing and I wish I could afford all their clones.
I’m based in the UK. Should I refuse to purchase a brand new Behringer Solina module for £300 and instead purchase a used 50 yr old original for £2000? Because Behringer is aggressive like every other multinational corporation?
I think we have to be really clear on who the market for Behringer gear is - it's not pro, or even semi-pro users - it's purely the consumer/amateur market. Behringer's customers are doing it just for fun, not for pay, and are lucky if they have $5k to spend on their entire setup, let alone on a single synth like a Moog or Oberheim. Are Behringer's products as good as the original/premium brands? No, generally not, but they're 100% better than the product you were never going to be able to afford otherwise. And in the case of their synth reproductions, most of the originals are long out of production, so in many cases they're the only realistic option of owning them in hardware.
In my opinion Behringer's creativity is in delivering a product that does what the user wants at a low price apparently better than anyone else. Moog and Oberheim are selling ancient retread synths at 5K and nobody calls them out for price gouging, which is what it is. I have no problem with them doing this but I consider them to be collector's items only. I don't see how that is visionary or creative. I think if someone wants to dislike Behringer for aggressively competing for marketshare they should at least be as critical of other companies charging exorbitant prices for having a legendary name badge. If a Minimoog is gonna cost 3-5k, I'm glad cheaper options exist.
The Matriarch is under $2K, and is a fresh, and innovative product. 4 oscillators, 2 lfo’s paraphonic, amazing delay, attenuverters, multi’s, sequencer, arpeggiator, stereo filters…. Nothing else like it at any price!
Behringer doesn’t do “what the customer wants”, they just copy. What they do is nothing more or less than give people “what they want” from the other companies at a cheap price. Behringer doesn’t do “I want a 3 oscillator synth that has flexible routing…”, they only do “I want a moog but cheap”. All of the things that the instrument does was designed by another company who gave people what they want. Moog has a bunch of new affordable and innovative gear, in production gear, which Behringer just copies. No wonder they folded.
@@alexwestconsulting Not quite accurate. Customers asked for these synths or Behringer wouldn't have sold any. Moog could've easily released a lower tiered 'working mans' Minimoog but they didn't, so people bought them from Behringer. Roland could have released analog 808's and 909's but they didn't so people bought them from Behringer. Moog, like Sequential, is a cadillac brand for people who want to pay extra for a classic name. Behringer is more like what Peavey used to be. They give you value for your buck. It's funny...Studio Electronics released the Midi Moog well before Behringer was even in business, but I don't see anyone screaming about them. Also, the DM12 is quite a bit more than a Juno clone. Lots of innovation in that synth.
@@allkeyspro6606 I'm sure it's very cool but it's still 2k for a monosynth. That's not a great value. On the plus side, it will likely hold it's value because of it's name. Again...collector's item. If you want a great sounding mono with flexible modulation there are tons of great options for much less $.
@@_P_M_ Matriarch is good value. It has a delay unit that independently sells used for almost as much as the synth itself. It's a truly inspiring piece of gear that sounds absolutely phenomenal. Something like the Sirin sold for $600 retail. Mavis even cheaper.
Let's dig in... I can care less about what people say about Moog Vs Behringer, because it's petty, fake, and full of garbage. Moog is not Behringer, nor the other way around, and neither company said they were. All we are talking about is grown men and some women eating some company's nuts and giving opinions about NOTHING. The simple solution is NOT TO BUY what you have your little toddler issues with, and keep it moving. I have a vintage synth, which does not make me better than someone who with a digital one, and these so-called difference between the two is only noticed by petty purists who need a damn life. Tell me the time you have seen the club patrons leave because the synth sounds were Behringer instead of Moog, and good luck since it does not exist. Would I get a Moog? YES.. Would I get a Behringer? YES...I will because i can, and since it's MY money, I do not give a f$$$$ about someone's opinions. Now the fact is, if they actually copied the machines, that would be illegal and that's for those companies to work out.. Even the new Roland Juno is NOT the exact same as my Roland HS60. Lack of creativity? REALLY???? So you're trying to tell me that most of the 'workstations' are not the same damn keyboards, with the same basic ideas? So you're telling me that other companies do not have the same lack of integrity that you claim Behringer has? Have you not seen the sameness in Akai samplers lately?Have you not seen the bunch of reissue synths? I think it's good that I can have something similar and not have to spend $6999,or get something old and costs more than new synths to maintain. Does the world need a treatise about what I don't want? What purpose that that serve the world and what youth does that teach? See, this kind of stuff is why our youth do not respect us, when we are petty, when we are stuck in our ways, and when we act like gatekeepers. Why is what we use from person to person even a conversation, except to share knowledge, and different means to an end? What grown adult is thinking they are sane yet butthurt, pissed, or cheerleading about an inanimate object???I have gear from all sorts of companies, and I get whatever works for my purposes I do not need to defend my gear nor dislike others, because I am not insane. If I do not like something I contact the COMPANY and express myself directly, like a rational adult. The thing is, we can get the gear, not get it, or we can shut up all the bellyaching and make it ourselves. There are plenty of people who made their own, who took on the challenge, who did more than complain. Now I do not know ,nor will i care to know the legal details, just like when I sent my Xbox in for the recall. I contacted them, they fixed it, sent it back and I still use it sometimes..SIMPLE AND SANE...Now I plan to get the Moog Matriarch AND another one, then I will also get a Behringer, and I will laugh at whomever has an issue with it..
@@bobmurray2534 I do care about them yet they are so damn entitled, and it's insulting. I took lesson top play the piano, I worked her to become a performer in HS, and when I started Djing,I had to BUY 2-4 copies of the same record, sometimes the CDs. I spent time learning how to tune a drum, tune a guitar with a tuning fork. I paid all those dues for some toddler can get online and call him/herself a 'musician' copying the music YOUR band created. If you have 7 people in your band and they are now 50 years old, that means there's probably 280 years of practice and mastery between you. I love Serato because I don't have to carry crates of records anymore, yet all that struggle was worth it, if by chance the computer/controller stops working. I still have my records, over 20+k,and when I am home doing a project, it's spinning by hand, along with analog/digital gear, like my samplers. I do not know if you heard, yet turntables are back ,records are back, instruments are back, and there's talk about making cassette recorders again. It cracks me up when these toddlers talk about music as if they invented anything. They have invented NOTHING,so they actually speak from a defensive posture.
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You have beautiful studio ❤❤❤
Wow, thank you!
A clone…is a copy.
I have never been in the market for a synth over $1k. I’ve never earned enough to have that kind of expendable income. Behringer gave me an entry point into making electronic music with hardware synthesizers. Happy to report none of my Behringer synths have crapped out on me over the last 3 years despite hauling them around in precariously packed suitcases for shows.
I’ve just never attributed my inspiration to a brand. I feel inspired by other artists and by the world around me.
Uli kind of sucks as a person and could have greatly benefited from a PR team to dissuade him from making an ass out of himself and his company, but at the end of the day, for me, instruments are just tools. I don’t identify with my gear. I don’t identify with my car or with my phone. Maybe it’s because I take these things a little bit for granted as a millennial? In terms of synthesizers, all the classics came out before I was born, so I don’t know what it must have been like when they were freshly introduced into the market.
The 2600 is not even a clone per se. but yeah
I live in South America. We pay 3 times more for any kind of imported gear. Please Behringer, keep doing your thing!
In the late 1990's I bought a Behringer guitar pedal and it turned me off to their products. However, I now have a Poly D, 2600, Odyssey, RD-8, RD-9 and Pro One. Great synths. Fun. They are like Lamborghini's with Pontiac Fiero engines. You know you are driving a kit car that looks cool. They also sound great. They don't all sound alike. The Pro-One and Poly D are superior. I really wish they wouldn't announce products until they are being built and one step away from shipping. I don't care about what a company, or anyone else, is "planning to do". None of the Behringer products were available when I first saw them and it was months or over a year before some of them became available.
Personally, I own a Behringer DeepMind 12. I do think that the synth’s design is pretty visionary. Sure, you could say that it’s based on a copy of the Roland Juno 106, but that’s selling this thing short, because the synth itself goes way deeper than anything that Roland has done with their Junos or Jupiters. I think that what Behringer has done is to fill a niche for those of us who don’t have a ton of cash, but who have serious gear lust for vintage gear without having to pay vintage gear prices (which are absolutely insane), and aren’t particularly excited about running software synths.
As for synths, I think that Behringer has taken the route that Roland sadly hasn’t taken, and listened to their customers who wanted something that wasn’t basically a software synthesizer in a plastic housing. They’re successful with their synths because they actively listen to their customer base, and try to give people what they’re asking for. That’s admirable, to me.
I also came from the “Behringer is cheaply made garbage” school of thought, previously. The DM12 has definitely changed my opinion of Behringer as a synth company.
Thanks for this!
@@allkeyspro6606 You’re welcome! I enjoyed hearing your opinion on this subject.
DM is an anomaly. People who have issue with Behringer is not because of the DM (or neutron), just almost everything else.
They have some interesting instruments.. but most of them just lack character. I have not seen one piece that they took from roland that roland didn’t have a better answer for. The ACB tech is amazing. Even the boutique 303 is on another level then the TD. There is too much character missing from these copys. Yes they are close.. and I personally don’t care if they sound exact or not.. but the lack of character, depth, and timing… just isn’t worth it to me. Roland’s choice with ACB is very smart for sustainability . And it will only get better.
@@djcolinturnbull The prob I have w the boutiques is not acb itself, it's the 4 voice polyphony limit. It's just a matter of time before re-issues with higher voice counts that will render the the current line obsolete. I guess that won't be a factor for the mono units at least.
Behringer is about to release their version of the super rare RSF Kobol keyboard (only 200 originals were made). Also, RSF no longer exists as a company. With that said, Behringer even collaborated with the actual designer of the original Kobol during the development process. Despite the other products Behringer have released in the past, I think remaking the Kobol is a great move. The Kobol is so rare and inaccessible that very few people will ever get a chance to actually see or play one on person, let alone own one. No other company has ever attempted to clone the RSF Kobol keyboard, making the Behringer version the only viable or practical way to obtain it. This is definitely a synth I will purchase from Behringer. They are literally in the process of bringing an almost forgotten synth back to life and making it available and affordable for many.
The point I'm making here is not all of the choices Behringer make regarding their products are unethical.
Well said!
I wish Behring would focus more on this real legacy stuff, where the original company and also no follow-up company whatsoever ist existing anymore. I am thinking of the Synthex specifically here.
That was a very thoughtful and honest way of looking at these issues. If only more people could manage such a respectful, even generous, approach..
Come on…you have to stop this. What is your goal with Behringer bashing? They build the instruments that are no longer available for most. There is simply no ARP around that you can just buy and take home…unless you are willing to pay insane amounts of money for it. So…just stop the rants: Behringer products are making old synth structures available for average folks and they enjoy using them. Why denying them the fun? Beyond that…I am 100% sure that you will have a hard time to differentiate in a blind test software, Behringer and Moog etc. products. I have only one Behringer synth - which is the neutron and I am not using it often. But that doesn’t matter: it was fun to figure out how it works, stick some cables into the patch field and let it just go. I can tell you that I really tried hard to “love” Moog synths but sorry to tell you: they did not much innovate in the recent decades. Playing one is nostalgic and fun but not the “only thing in the world”. I am using the emulations all the time (the arturia) and they sound great - and they travel with me in my laptop….something that is 100% impossible otherwise.
My poly D will never be a model D. It's a fantasy. But I love it and It feels closer than a vst.
Let me just say this. At the end of the day we decide what is good for us. I am not a professional and just have fun playing around with the sound and most of the time have my record button off. It's just happaned to be that behringer gear and roland d series synths are in my price range. Sure, i will cheer Behringer for letting me have access to those toys.
On the other hand, if i would have the talent and do this professionally, my price range would go up.
I totally understand and feel where Jeff comes from, and did not feel anything wrong when i watched that video.
I respect Jeff, and even had a chance to record one of his live ahows at Herbs. Ironically, i used x32 rack:), wich is also ironically died lat week, mostly sitting in a basement not doing much. :)..
Making those videos are not easy, and thank you Jeff for the content you create.
If you are still in Denver, allow me to invite you for a beer or two. !!!
its worth it to save up and get the real thing.
I have a 2600 and Pro 1. There's no way I'll get the Arp 2600 and Pro 1(no midi) originals in 2023. I need those two to compliment my Access TI2 and Analog Four.
I don't own any synthesizers. I have one little Yamaha keyboard and a larger, older Yamaha keyboard. One of my earliest musical influences though, and one of my earliest synth influences, was the Moog synth chip in the Commodore 64.
the most important thing is the music in our heads... whatever brand gets us there is the thing. I will eventually have a Moog in my collection, because I too respect and would love to have one...but in the meantime Uli's company has given me many more resources than I would ever had with Mr. Moog's.
Absolutely agree! I own some Moogs, Behringers, Roland, Korg, Emu, Yamaha, Casio, etc. I continue to learn new techniques on all of them combining them with guitar effect pedals and loving honing my craft and sound. Have fun! Make music with what YOU have. Non- musicians could care less about what product made the songs. Reality.
What about Sequential Circuits and Moog for copying their designs? I suppose the patents ran out long about, but what about trade dress? I'm considering the Pro 800 and returning my Prophet 10 module, 1/7 or so the price. I do have qualms....
That’s a big one! I would suggest if you order the Pro 800, to spend some time with both the Prophet and the Behringer together, and listen to the results. I’d hate to see you make a decision you regret! I’m anxious to see your decision!
@@allkeyspro6606 Yes, I am hoping the Pro 800 arrives in time to do that! I'm a total rookie on synth (but like you, a longtime musician, sax, piano (+50 years), recently guitar), so I'm not as adept as a real synth pro in ferreting out the differences. So it's going to be on SOUND first and foremost. I do like stack & split but the workaround for that is VST or just Rhodes, etc. (I have an 88 key stage 1974), also a 1969 Hammond E-112).
@@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton nice! I have a ‘76 Mark One, and I just got the rebuild kit! I need to jump in!
@@allkeyspro6606 Pretty easy, actually.
Great video and excellent points, thank you!
While I agree with what you are saying in principle, and I applaud that your conscience and desire for authenticity guides you, but for me, a big challenge as a citizen of the 3rd world (I live in South Africa), is that the majority of our young musicians, who live in abject poverty in comparison to most in the 1st world, have no real option.
Even the major consumer brands (Roland, Korg, Yamaha etc) are simply unaffordable for most. Moog, Oberheim, Nord, etc are just not even in the ballpark for our economy. For many, the only chance of getting their hands on a synth for pro or semi pro use, would be an instrument in the price range of the cheaper Behringers.
Personally, I am extremely privileged, and even though Moog and Oberheim are beyond even my my reach, I own Roland, Korg and Nord keyboards to earn my daily bread, and I do not own (or need to own) any Behringer gear.
This is sadly not the case, for many aspiring synth heads in our country. Not saying I like the manufacturer and the product, but I can forgive those who are forced to either compromise, or simply go without.
You said Ben Johnson but I'm pretty sure you meant Benn Jordan.
Otherwise, you make some salient points. However, sometimes you're broke and a $30 delay pedal is all you can afford.
Benn Jordan- thank you for the correction!
Benn Jordan... ah yes... the one gear shill who admits he is a gear shill. Give him credit for transparency.
I own some vintage polys some very unique like my beloved Kawai SX240. That being said, I enjoyed the neutron (unique) and my D by behringer. Great sounding powerful analogs at a low price is great, especially not having any issues with the.
I agree with everything you said. It makes sense.
That said, I wanted a TR-909 and the new Roland version sounds off to me and has tiny knobs. The Behringer RD-9 has a very similar layout to the original and sounds great. It even has some added tuning features not on the original. I wanted a minimoog but it’s much too expensive for me as a hobbyist. The Poly D sounds so good and it was very inexpensive. It also has 4 oscillators, paraphony, good sequencer and the Juno-60 chorus built in. It’s a copy but it’s also a unique instrument in a lot of ways. And a LOT of people have copied that 4 pole filter which is key to the minimoog sound. Even ARP copied it for the original 2600 and had to change it.
You are going to see a lot of Behringer supporters because of the price. Honda sells a lot more Civics than they do of the Acura NSX. Most musicians aren’t pro and have limited budgets. You could argue that a lot of Behringer customers aren’t even musicians, they just like turning knobs and making sounds. And I think that’s fine. Better than scrolling on social media all day.
Glad you mentioned the fact others have copied parts of the Moog as well,which no one else has spoken on. It's also a fact that even if someone buys a Moog One, Moog D, Yamaha CS80, that does not make them a musician nor create good music.
Great video brother. Insightful.
Thanks, Jeff, for your great perspective.
My pleasure!
have an old Moog Rogue,paid 160 in a junk shop in 88,I am poor,so I buy behringer synths and mixers,working in oscurity
Behringer has always straight up copied others' products. They started by ripping off Mackie mixers in the I think early to mid 90s.
People say "oh they make stuff affordable", but that's really easy to do if you just straight up copy everyone else. The last product of theirs I tried was the XR18 mixer for live use (which was basically a copy of other companies' ideas). They touted it as having wireless iPad control. The wireless was really old tech, slow and used old wireless encryption protocols that had been hacked about a decade earlier and was unusable. I wrote them about it and asked if this was possible to upgrade (like on a separate board internally), and got a terse response saying just add an external wireless router. Then what was the point of putting that in if it's unusable? Buy another product used. As far as synths, get software and use a controller if you want an old synth sound.
I won't use anything else they put out since that's how they treat you after you've spent money with them. They really don't have ideas.
I almost posted a comment on your last vid, somewhat in defence of Behringer, but then decided not to. I do that sometimes. I have a bunch of their synths, and they sound really good, are cheap, and are a way for me to get my hands on gear that I wouldn't be able to afford, and also get to learn the work flow of analogue synths.
Your criticism of Behringer the company is fine though. You can like some of their gear, and dislike their practices and even Uli Behringer himself, or dislike the whole shebang if you want to. Viv la difference'.
Moog, I do like their gear, I would like to get one or two of their synths. I can't say I know much of their company though, but in the end, I can't afford to buy their stuff.
Having said that, I'm a tad hypocritical as I have spent Moog level money on a Polybrute (I love that thing!) and a Nord Electro 6b. Perhaps it's what the gear can do/cover that I am spending the money on.
Having said all that, I'd love a Matriarch one day, and in future will dream about the Moog One. I do hope that they stay in business in something close to their current form.
Anyway, you just keep on putting your thoughts out there.
I have a 1974 Minimoog Model D. I write and record with it, but dont take it out live. I picked up a Poly D to take its place live because someone could A. Dick with it, B. It could get damaged, and C. It could get stolen. I wouldnt like it, but I'd rather any of the above happen to the Poly D... Its affordable enough, I can go get another.
I also have the bARP 2600. To me, when set up in the same configuration, both the Poly D and the 2600 sound the same (as in the Oscillators and Filters sound the same). I'd be willing to bet that All Behringer synths are the same synth, just in different costume - sliders instead of knobs, a few extras here and there, but basically the same synth. No need to pixk up a Monopoly or a Kobol, because I already have those...they just look like a 2600 or Mini...
I buy synths to make the music I want, regardless of brand, and that includes behringer. Whereas I can agree with some of the ethical points as a hobbyist who does this for my own enjoyment I think there are far more important ethical choices to be made in the 21st century than who makes a synth I like the sound off for me. If theres a version made by another company, like the Oddy and the MS Ive went with the Korg options, but it certainly wasnt for build quality as I find the behringers are actually better built than Korgs at a certain level. As far as I know this cloning/copying is coming to an end now, then going forward it will be original designs, whether this is true or not I guess we’ll see, but I doubt it will change the mind of their detractors. Their behaviour in the past is not one I commend, but if they can avoid doing it again Ive no real problem with pissing off people, but bullying journalists was a step too far.
I don't think B is trying to win the hearts of the seasonal pro's like yourself, people who devote their whole life in making music, dedication and maintain their big budget studios. Please do us a favor and get a proper gear that will not fail. They are trying to capitalize on the yet untapped market. The rest of us who aren't pros but can only dream of being one. The bedroom musicians, amateurs. Sadly I will never make money with my gear. That dream is almost unobtainable (at my age) and is too saturated with people (and media) to break through the algorithms and make in the industry which in itself is corrupted as well.
I understand the point you are saying and I don't like the way B acts but that action creates movement in the market, excitement, hope it will offend some, many companies show their true colors by going WOKE. I would like see how many skeletons is in others closet too.
How many people re-invent a wheel (an oscillator)? Should a company not be allowed to use others people ideas for how to build an oscillator design from the past using their own circuit boards design to accommodate a different form factor and manufacturing technology. Doesn't look quite that easy task like people imagine.
B has potential to become innovative in the future. Didn't Uli design his own synth when he was a teen? He got passion for Synths! for now they just listen to us, copy, learn
so right! as a guy with little funds who dreamed about having old analog gear I support behringer!
Why are people so precious about synthesizer circuitry? People have been begging companies like Roland to redo some of their old products for decades. They just ignore it. The price of a mono synth was high 40 to 50 years ago because the tech was more expensive. Microprocessors, chips are generally more widely available now. A moog d isn’t magical. It’s just a circuit. If you want fancy furniture on it and assembled in the u.s. that’s fine pay high dollar. A company like behringer is filling a void in the market that has been there for quite a while. The way things are going they will probably be the biggest hardware synth seller in the world for some time.
Imagine if some tryhard made a 1980s home PC reproduction and charged $20,000 for it.
1970s tech that pretty much only creates novelty sounds is worth almost nothing today.
@@zap7759 lots of companies made model d plugins. Where was the outrage there? It’s just elitist b.s. with this current thing.
@@saltykraut I don't spend more than $500 for an analog monosynth because that is ridiculous. Sold a CS-30 and Pro-One went with Bass Station II and Pro-1.
I think we can all agree that Behringer's business model and practice of cloning gear that's still in production, is bad for the industry and ultimately the consumer. If you had just stuck to that argument you'd have a case. But your criticism of how Behringer synths sound is unfounded. The Model D sounds great as does the out of production Wasp for $200. Compare those synths to others in that price range and there's no competition. For most people it's more realistic to get a Behringer model D and an Elektron Analog heat (or Stymon Deco), than it is to spent over 5k for a Moog Model D re-issue. I have a little phatty and nothing else sounds like it but synths can be like people, each one have it's own character. and to expect them to all chase the same sound is the wrong approach.
Sheesh... you are a magnet for the Behringer bots. You need to bash the Hydrasynth and get the ASM bots all riled up. This is great.
I can’t actually stand the Hydrasynth. I had the desktop for a couple of months, but sold it!
@@allkeyspro6606 What didn't you like about it? (Numerous posters have been telling me to obtain a HYDRASYNTH DELUXE for several months now!)
I'm guessing Uli hires people to go online and defend him.
All you do is talk trash about them and now you’re like “but I don’t hate them, really.” Your a funny guy. I’m still cracking up at the “national tragedy” line. What happens one day if they close their doors? “It’s the end of civilization as we know it.” 😊
Just took delivery of my new Toro. It's a no brainer. It sounds exactly like a Taurus 1 and it was 249$. Looks amazing too. I love what Behringer is doing and I wish I could afford all their clones.
I’m based in the UK. Should I refuse to purchase a brand new Behringer Solina module for £300 and instead purchase a used 50 yr old original for £2000? Because Behringer is aggressive like every other multinational corporation?
excellent video, totally agree, not a Behringer fan, also
Agree with everything you said. Well put.
as a struggling musician i have no choice, surprisingly mine still keep up with me, but i totally agree with you. Liked and subscribed done
I think we have to be really clear on who the market for Behringer gear is - it's not pro, or even semi-pro users - it's purely the consumer/amateur market. Behringer's customers are doing it just for fun, not for pay, and are lucky if they have $5k to spend on their entire setup, let alone on a single synth like a Moog or Oberheim.
Are Behringer's products as good as the original/premium brands? No, generally not, but they're 100% better than the product you were never going to be able to afford otherwise. And in the case of their synth reproductions, most of the originals are long out of production, so in many cases they're the only realistic option of owning them in hardware.
My take - behringer is bad for the environment
Auch ...
In my opinion Behringer's creativity is in delivering a product that does what the user wants at a low price apparently better than anyone else. Moog and Oberheim are selling ancient retread synths at 5K and nobody calls them out for price gouging, which is what it is. I have no problem with them doing this but I consider them to be collector's items only. I don't see how that is visionary or creative. I think if someone wants to dislike Behringer for aggressively competing for marketshare they should at least be as critical of other companies charging exorbitant prices for having a legendary name badge. If a Minimoog is gonna cost 3-5k, I'm glad cheaper options exist.
The Matriarch is under $2K, and is a fresh, and innovative product. 4 oscillators, 2 lfo’s paraphonic, amazing delay, attenuverters, multi’s, sequencer, arpeggiator, stereo filters…. Nothing else like it at any price!
Behringer doesn’t do “what the customer wants”, they just copy. What they do is nothing more or less than give people “what they want” from the other companies at a cheap price. Behringer doesn’t do “I want a 3 oscillator synth that has flexible routing…”, they only do “I want a moog but cheap”. All of the things that the instrument does was designed by another company who gave people what they want. Moog has a bunch of new affordable and innovative gear, in production gear, which Behringer just copies. No wonder they folded.
@@alexwestconsulting Not quite accurate. Customers asked for these synths or Behringer wouldn't have sold any. Moog could've easily released a lower tiered 'working mans' Minimoog but they didn't, so people bought them from Behringer. Roland could have released analog 808's and 909's but they didn't so people bought them from Behringer. Moog, like Sequential, is a cadillac brand for people who want to pay extra for a classic name. Behringer is more like what Peavey used to be. They give you value for your buck. It's funny...Studio Electronics released the Midi Moog well before Behringer was even in business, but I don't see anyone screaming about them. Also, the DM12 is quite a bit more than a Juno clone. Lots of innovation in that synth.
@@allkeyspro6606 I'm sure it's very cool but it's still 2k for a monosynth. That's not a great value. On the plus side, it will likely hold it's value because of it's name. Again...collector's item. If you want a great sounding mono with flexible modulation there are tons of great options for much less $.
@@_P_M_ Matriarch is good value. It has a delay unit that independently sells used for almost as much as the synth itself. It's a truly inspiring piece of gear that sounds absolutely phenomenal. Something like the Sirin sold for $600 retail. Mavis even cheaper.
I don't care what the name says, look at all of the old DSI that sound thin and boring compared to VAs.
Let's dig in...
I can care less about what people say about Moog Vs Behringer, because it's petty, fake, and full of garbage. Moog is not Behringer, nor the other way around, and neither company said they were. All we are talking about is grown men and some women eating some company's nuts and giving opinions about NOTHING. The simple solution is NOT TO BUY what you have your little toddler issues with, and keep it moving. I have a vintage synth, which does not make me better than someone who with a digital one, and these so-called difference between the two is only noticed by petty purists who need a damn life. Tell me the time you have seen the club patrons leave because the synth sounds were Behringer instead of Moog, and good luck since it does not exist. Would I get a Moog? YES.. Would I get a Behringer? YES...I will because i can, and since it's MY money, I do not give a f$$$$ about someone's opinions. Now the fact is, if they actually copied the machines, that would be illegal and that's for those companies to work out.. Even the new Roland Juno is NOT the exact same as my Roland HS60. Lack of creativity? REALLY???? So you're trying to tell me that most of the 'workstations' are not the same damn keyboards, with the same basic ideas? So you're telling me that other companies do not have the same lack of integrity that you claim Behringer has? Have you not seen the sameness in Akai samplers lately?Have you not seen the bunch of reissue synths?
I think it's good that I can have something similar and not have to spend $6999,or get something old and costs more than new synths to maintain. Does the world need a treatise about what I don't want? What purpose that that serve the world and what youth does that teach? See, this kind of stuff is why our youth do not respect us, when we are petty, when we are stuck in our ways, and when we act like gatekeepers. Why is what we use from person to person even a conversation, except to share knowledge, and different means to an end? What grown adult is thinking they are sane yet butthurt, pissed, or cheerleading about an inanimate object???I have gear from all sorts of companies, and I get whatever works for my purposes I do not need to defend my gear nor dislike others, because I am not insane. If I do not like something I contact the COMPANY and express myself directly, like a rational adult. The thing is, we can get the gear, not get it, or we can shut up all the bellyaching and make it ourselves. There are plenty of people who made their own, who took on the challenge, who did more than complain. Now I do not know ,nor will i care to know the legal details, just like when I sent my Xbox in for the recall. I contacted them, they fixed it, sent it back and I still use it sometimes..SIMPLE AND SANE...Now I plan to get the Moog Matriarch AND another one, then I will also get a Behringer, and I will laugh at whomever has an issue with it..
@@bobmurray2534
I do care about them yet they are so damn entitled, and it's insulting. I took lesson top play the piano, I worked her to become a performer in HS, and when I started Djing,I had to BUY 2-4 copies of the same record, sometimes the CDs. I spent time learning how to tune a drum, tune a guitar with a tuning fork. I paid all those dues for some toddler can get online and call him/herself a 'musician' copying the music YOUR band created. If you have 7 people in your band and they are now 50 years old, that means there's probably 280 years of practice and mastery between you.
I love Serato because I don't have to carry crates of records anymore, yet all that struggle was worth it, if by chance the computer/controller stops working. I still have my records, over 20+k,and when I am home doing a project, it's spinning by hand, along with analog/digital gear, like my samplers.
I do not know if you heard, yet turntables are back ,records are back, instruments are back, and there's talk about making cassette recorders again. It cracks me up when these toddlers talk about music as if they invented anything. They have invented NOTHING,so they actually speak from a defensive posture.