The King Monty Mole boss makes me realize how unique designs really wouldn't be much of a stretch to expect, I know a lot more goes into character design than this but it's crazy how much more charming a design can be if you just change the color and give em a funny accessory
I just hope said Chain Chomp partner would have a more unique design than just…generic chain chomp. It doesn't have to talk though since I do believe Chain Chomps have rarely, or perhaps have never spoken in the Mario franchise. It could still have a personality though since no dialogue animals can absolutely have that! Heck, maybe we could *name* said Chain Chomp partner!
I really hope they iterate on the OG TTYD's or even Super Paper Mario's aesthetic for the next game. I know it's called *paper* Mario but it doesn't literally have to look like everything is made of paper
I remember during those years hearing rumors about a Paper Mario 64 remake for the 3DS but that never came out. Now watching this leaked trailer demo it all makes sense, it feels so much like a return to the series beginnings, even the Goombas look like they snatched right out of the N64.
I think you're understating how different it looks, in sticker star all the environments are paper and cardboard, this is MUCH more reminiscent of 64 imo
The interesting thing about the environments isn't the archetypes that were used (even though the card maze is unique). It's how they were styled. They are styled like a perfect combination of the best of TTYD & PM64's visuals. You have the Candy Pops in the background, everything looks organic, the grassy area gives off nice cozy PM64 energy. And the enemies all use their classic designs from the first three games too. Plus the Monty Mole king breaks the rules that the final version of Sticker Star was constrained under, he's literally a big purple Monty Mole with a huge mustache and beard, and a crown with a parasitic mushroom growing from his head. The use of mostly basic stuff outside that can be explained away with how early of a prototype it was, but the Monty Mole king, the existence of an overworld/battle partner, and the organic environments rather than overwhelmingly cardboard ones suggest this version was before they forced it to change direction, prioritize being safe story-wise and emphasizing paper everywhere.
Yeah, while the game still seems to suffer from a lot of the same issue as the final game, like the combat system still using stickers or the areas potentially still being seperate levels, (Still feels like it to me at the very least) the overall art direction at least is still is more accurate to classic Paper Mario. Also, isn't the Monty Mole boss at the end of the trailer just wearing a crown, like all the other Sticker Star bosses did?
it definitely seems like the initial scale of the game looking at the environments and the unique character designs would've been something more akin to paper mario 64, as opposed to what the later games went for, which i can def understand wanting to do after a game as ambitious as spm was. very curious what that would've looked like with this original direction, if it would've still been a story similar to the final version of sticker star, or maybe a story with a scope similar to the original paper mario, as opposed to the more indepth stories of ttyd and spm. if they went with a story like 64 i'm curious if they would've had bowser as the main villain still or if they would've decided to do an original villain, but maybe not one on the same scale as the previous two games.
Woah I can't believe that paper mario's world looked like paper I get having an issue with the plot surrounding around paper, but saying the arts and crafts aesthetic from the new games were a downground rather than a stylistic choice is just silly ma'am
@@supermariohack3218literally use context clues my friend. There aren't stickers haphazardly placed on every single surface and only see one pop out of a box. You know what that implies, right?
I will say, there is more evidence that hinted at a bigger game than what we originally got inside the final game's files. There are traces of an unused original Snake enemy with a boss variant that was intended to be a chapter boss. Princess Peach has functional overworld controls. Bowser has unused talking animations. And there's a lot of leftover data for other unused partners, maps, etc. An E3 2011 trailer of Sticker Star also showed that it was meant to have 8 chapters instead of the final's 6.
with that info I think it's safe to say that while the game was going to be simpler and less unique than TTYD, I believe either due to senior developers changing the direction of the game or time crunch it lead to the smaller and hastley developed sticker star that we ended up getting
@@thewanderingchelmet there's data for a goomba partner and a partner named "Mr. Slit" who was supposedly able to give Mario the slim ability from TTYD and SPM
@@adept2134It's partly some higher-ups overhaul. Both director Ryota Kawade and major artist Chie Kawabe were out of the picture by Sticker Star. The staff was just trying to figure out what they were doing with the game, until Taro Kudo (the newer games' lead writer) became heavily involved.
I have waited 14 years to see the full trailer, from that Nintendo World Report cam video. Finally we can see the full things like the E3 attendees. ALSO I LOVE THE MUSIC!!
IKR? Sticker Star lowered the bar by so much that even the most tiny improvements are seen as massive by comparison lol. This does technically look like an improvement, even if not by too much.
Yeah exactly, I feel like the aesthetic was basically taking the best elements from 64 and TTYD's visual styles and mixing them together in an incredibly satisfying way. Imagine scrapping that in favor of a world that intentionally looks artificial and fake.
There's still no sign of any kind of story, so this probably would've still been a massive step down from Thousand Year door, but at least it would've been seen as just a downgrade instead of the franchise jumping the rails and falling into a cliff.
@@corasharktaleNot really. In the interview the devs said that they came up with the sticker thing AFTER showing miyamoto a demo and him saying it's "too much like ttyd". This implies that there used to be a different battle system, more like ttyd. This information, combined with the fact that leftover game data suggests there were going to be 8 chapters and a few unused unique enemies, really makes me think there was an earlier iterarion of this game, one BEFORE the one we see in this demo, that really had the same vision as the first two games. How far they already developed that version I'm not completely sure of though.
After watching the footage, it still feels like most of the Sticker Star DNA that fans detest was already present and still would've dragged this game down even if it stayed course on the trailers direction. That said, so much of this gameplay feels so much better than what was actually released and makes me wonder what went so horribly wrong behind the scenes at Intelligent Systems from its inception. The most glaring issue here is that the sticker battle mechanic is still very solidly present in the trailer, which means that SS's biggest problems were still happening one way or the other, and that is very sad to see that Paper Mario's Art Ages were inevitable. However, the levels feel like they follow a more traditional Mario platformer design, and that actually might have been better than the final game which couldn't commit to linearity or cohesive world design and suffered because of that. This still feels like it would've been the weakest PM game no matter what and fan hatred at this point in time might've had no significant difference regardless of which version of Sticker Star was released, but at least those still images we've seen for decades now have animation and we have the TTYD remake now. Here's hoping that the next original game truly is a Paper Mario Renaissance and not a return to the divisive status quo of the last decade.
Why do people hate the battle system so much? I think the games biggest problems are no characters, boring environments, terrible puzzles, and a boring story. Without things, the battle system is just fine!
@@potatoe972iirc there wasn’t a reliable way to recover stickers after they were used. Which made repeated battles cost more than they earned, which made battles in general a thing to be avoided and an annoyance more than a fun mechanic. Which made the whole game really drag.
@potatoe972 The issues people tend to have with the system are: 1. You can't target enemies, meaning your first attack always hits the first enemy and, assuming you do the battle spin, your second attack will hit the second enemy and so on and so forth, which can be annoying for some. 2. Little move customization since all attacks are expendable. Not to mention if you don't use a sticker but already selected it via the extra moves you get via the battle spin, you lose that sticker. 3. Battles are practically pointless since you only get coins from battles, which you only use to get more stickers or Thing Stickers, and can be gotten through out the levels. 4. Some bosses don't tell you what Thing you need to beat the boss until you need it. This isn't too bad with some bosses, especially since you can cheese some or runaway to get what you need, but the fact that the game doesn't tell you till it's too late is stupid since the game could've had it hinted at prior. Those are some I could come up with, but people have talked about it too death.
It may well have been the weakest out of the first four, but I'd argue if this version was allowed to develop to fruition and didn't have 99% of its classic PM DNA scrubbed after this build, it would still have cleared Color Splash at least, maybe even Origami King. Not that those would exist in their current forms if this build had been realized to fruition.
I can't even imagine what could have possibly made them completely scrap the way this game was going. Sure its not perfect, but it was early footage and it looked in line with the series. Why shift gears so dramatically?
Because Miyamoto said so. Literally that's the reason. Look at Dinosaur Planet and what it turned into. (Star Fox Adventures is not a bad game, but I would have loved the original version much better)
@@Infindox the whole thing about avoiding new characters was a suggestion, but he never actually enforced it. Intelligent still had full creative control.
@@CeHee123 It is true that it was a suggestion, but there is a culture in Japan that if your superior makes even a minor suggestion its rude for you not to implement any of the asked changes.
This really does recontextualize Paper Mario’s fall from grace for me. The fact that they, of their own free will, were already considering transitioning the game so far away from the titles that came before it, only for Miyamoto or some other person to come in and tell them that something THIS bland needed to be even BLANDER is staggering. No wonder it’s taking Paper Mario so long to heal, it was essentially deconstructed from every angle by multiple sources.
Artistic value doesn't sell copies, and Paper Mario and TTYD only barely managed to maintain sales akin to Metroid. Fine sales figures in a vacuum, bad sales figures for Mario.
@@KlldbyCuriosity I do see what you’re saying, but I also think the art and general style of the game can have a pretty big impact on sales. Sticker Star was generic Mario to the Nth degree and the sales and reviews reflected that. Wheras Thousand Year Door had the highest Paper Mario sales for many years when considering attach rates. And Super also sold quite well. That being said, it is possible that Paper Mario as a whole is somehow held back a little by its art style. Maybe a lot of people see it and just aren’t all that impressed by the simple 2D sprites or something? It’s tough to say.
@@Slacks_PayneLooked into it and I’m pretty sure the original Thousand Year Door STILL has the best sales, when considering AR. So many people with GameCubes got it
I bet that bit where the wall expands into the background wouldve looked awesome in stereoscopic 3d! I loved playing in 3d on the bigger new 3ds system. 2d games, aidescrollers and such were so awesome to behold.
Since Chain Chomps are more animals in the Mario world I think it would be just a normal looking Chain Chomp. Wounder if we would get pet simulation mini games like feeding, cleaning or training our Chain Chomp.
Interestingly there IS more to this version of the game under the hood- files have been found that imply the chain chomp would go on to get some sort of collar in later versions, as well as other possible partners, I think one was like, something that gave you the slim ability from TTYD? Hints of EXP being a thing were also found.. And then there was this group of enemies called "Manders" which were these.. koopa snake looking enemies that are visible in a much, much later iteration of the game that's closer to sticker star.. as well as names in the files that imply a "King Mander" and "Bonemander" It's.. pretty interesting stuff And then with the Mushroom room in this trailer and King Monty Mole's crown being a mushroom seemingly implying some sort of plot detail... So it seems like it would have, in the end, been at least comparable to Paper Mario 64 perhaps, had it of kept this direction.
About the monty mole, I have a theory on it. The monty mole and the pink area we see mario walking under ground is infested with mushrooms They make the king go bonkers and is the crux of the problem for the world you find him in. Why do I say this? Watch the monty mole's head when he gets hurt.
I will admit, from what I've seen from this footage, it looks like if we had gotten this version, it would have been a lot more like, say, what Paper Jam is to Mario and Luigi, still enjoyable but most likely the weakest in the franchise. But there's no denying that still would have been better than what we got. Some are claiming the footage proves they were already planning to do away with EXP, but none of the footage shows whether that was going to be there or not. Then for the Chain Chomp, even when the screencaps of it first dropped, people speculated this was just a placeholder design and they might have been planning to add more details later, but considering how often that ends up not being the case, I kinda doubt that.
I believe the chain chomp was gonna have a more detailed design if given more time. As files for the chain chomp partner have been found in the game, and certain animations refer to it wearing a bow or collar. And a chain chomp wearing a bow and collar is the most adorable thing ever. Why Nintendo why why would you remove this?!?!?!?
The way the Chain Chomp partner seems to work here, reminds me of The Origami King a little, ever since someone pointed it out, which makes me think this little guy was most likely temporary. And now I'm wondering if The Origami King repurposed this idea in the form of temporary partners.
one of the things i like about Kersti, the partner from sticker star, is that she is tsundere, but this aspect of her character would have been way funnier if she was a chain chomp
Kersti wasn't tsundere she was just rude. She screams at you at the start of the game, she screams at you in the middle of the game and then expects you to feel sad when she sacrifices herself at the end. She sucks I'd rather chill with the paint bucket
There’s a really small chance that you did. The footage was never dumped and never recorded beyond the really short footage we have from the event back in 2010. The full trailer was lost media for 14 years.
Regardless if it has the same overall concept, what I WILL give it is that there is much more enemy variety, the idea for partners was going to continue, and the attacks and designs were more akin to the earlier titles. Since Super Paper Mario was meant to be played with a simpler controller and was just a platformer without battles, obviously it couldn't be the EXACT same thing coming off of that to a dual-screen system with turn-based battles, but here it seems that the continuity from it was spot-on, like they sort of mixed ttyd's battles with spm's platforming segments, seeing how you can still use things in the environment and some areas have a 2D-3D style (not like the flip, but more like the illusion of it, like the card maze.) And on top of that, the attacks look like the badges from earlier games, as well as the enemy designs looking like their super paper mario designs, except for wiggler, and the new enemies they made. I still think it would have been much better in this way. And as for the environments and NPCs, maybe they would have looked better too, only we never got to see it because for the Alpha builds they never showed any early designs for those.
Has anyone pointed out how the battle with the bone fish and the spineys have another battle ground on the ceiling? Like maybe there could’ve been upside down battles or enemies that fight on the ceiling
I'll mention what I say in the original video: I see a lot of Sticker Star, but I also see the aesthetics of PM64 which I think would've fit beautifully on a 3DS
I remember you could download a trailer of this game from the 3ds eshop alongside other games like LM2 and ACNL. But I can't remember if the Paper Mario one was exactly like this or not.
People like blaming miyamoto on ruining sticker star, but forget he said the game was boring after playing it. When even the creator of mario doesn't like your mario game its probably a bad game. Really sad a game that looked like it had potential got ruined though
Stickers supposedly had a much smaller role compared to the game we got. There's other things left over in the files that aren't shown in the trailer that indicate a lot more differences.
I definitely think you’ve memory-holed Sticker Star (don’t blame you). While there are some animations and the sticker concept in this trailer are reminiscent to that of the final game, this is far more in line with PM64 than you’re giving credit. The environments are just like, actual places without being made of paper, the combat layout seems the same (granted, with the stickers it seems to progress roughly the same as SS), the boss has a unique design and isn’t tied to any sort of real-world paper thing, of course there’s the partner who has both a combat and field ability (I wouldn’t say his standard Chain Chimp appearance should be taken as a sign of creative mandates, but maybe more just an early version), those horsetail blue things are back, the background stretch animation is more in line with visual effects from the older games than the papercraft effects from SS, and between the purple cave and card room, it seems that more personality was put into the locations than just bog standard NSMB areas in SS.
There would definitely have been more original stuff had the game continued this direction, there's some unused collision models and references to removed battle maps from a build around the time of the trailer, including a sewer system like those in 64 and TTYD and some sort of rotating warehouse. references to unique enemies do exist in some files and have been documented on TCRF, also there is empty strings related to starpoints in the file that stores all global text
Yes! It is amazing to me that a lot of people think this could have been a much better game closer to the original Paper Marios, and it could be, but the main complain a lot of the people had on those times were the rpg mechanics being absent in battles and exp. I think If the game ended up like in the beta, the community would talk about it like when we got Origami King, similar to the OG ones but not quite. There would still be plenty of criticism for not having partners with unique designs.
Weird thing is: When this like early prototype of sticker star is mentioned I remember a little booklet they had in a local electronics store, like a little ad from Nintendo with all the upcoming games and in that booklet it showed more early footage. I can only remember like an ice level with multiple of those snowmen like the boss of world 4. Never saw those pictures again anywhere sadly :/
I remembered when I first saw the trailer of this game and was thinking " This is what Super Paper Mario should've been. A Turned-Based RPG combat with better world designs rather than being a side scrolling RPG with worlds that felt deadweight & cryptic. ". As time goes by, the trailer took a different approach from what I usually see and was like " Ok. Fine. The game will still be decent anyway. Right? ". Only realizing that it wasn't exactly what I wanted after The Thousand Year Door. It was completely different & all the stuff they added just doesn't work. I wish we would've gotten something better. They should've stick to what the first trailer had and go through that. All I wanted was an successor to The Thousand Year Door. Why couldn't they just stick to that and improved on it? That's all I ever wanted.
I wonder what made them go from that purple Monty Mole to bosses that are generic Mario enemies but giant. The prototype had more creative designs for sure.
Here's something funny but sad. Kensuke Tanabe is the producer of a revival of a beloved Nintendo series, trying to innovate on its formula after three games. Its a dev team filled with newbies trying to make a game in this series despite clear issues in development. I am describing both Metroid Prime and Paper Mario: Sticker Star. Wild how different these scenarios went.
Tanabe was also the producer of Super Paper Mario (and a supervisor for TTYD), though in that case, a lot of the big veteran designers were still working on the series. He couldn't quite get there himself.
based on the footage I don't think this is even representative of the build they had if they even had one. This seems like a basic tech demo to me, made specifically for this e3 presentation, or one that was made to test what paper mario could look like on 3ds that was repurposed for the show. I doubt that anything beyond just the walking around was even playable.
Even if the gameplay probably still would have had some issues, this would have been so much better. It also probably would have resulted in Color Splash and Origami King being more like classic Paper Mario even if the gameplay was still a bit off. Really sucks its taken this long to even get them to just do a remake. I really can't fathom how anyone at Nintendo thought the final game would be an improvement over this.
It does feel neat to watch this, I wouldn’t know how similar this feels to the original game given that I never played Sticker Star but yeah it is too bad they decided to remove the chain chomp
I want a paper Mario game that tackles the concept of families and companionship, with Mario adopting a chain chomp for the entire adventure. Maybe try to find the original owner, even. Could perfectly tie Bowser and Bowser Jr. into that theme.
While stickers seems to be at the core of the game, this trailer still shows so much more life than what we eventually got. But I still think this game would've been the worst paper mario at the time of release, since the core issues like game level design and story would've still reared their ugly head.
Honestly, I think the world art looks way more like TTYD. Certain areas like the swamp look more SS but I think that's cause they're in the final game.
The prototype down to the mechanics are, by far, superior to the final product. The enemies are much more creative than what we got. The fact that, in the final game, the partners mechanic was scrapped in favor of the stickers makes me feel disappointed. The game would’ve been better if they’d didn’t choose to scrap this. Kersti, the sentient tiara character, is wasted potential and Mario deserves a better guide than this. The prototype’s levels had effort put into them unlike the ones we got.
I completely agree, it doesn't look _that_ different from normal Sticker Star. Although it might've been enough to at least convince me to finish the game and not pawn it off to a friend
If Sticker Star was the way it was in E3 2010, then Super Paper Mario would've never received the appreciation it got, and it would be considered the worst game instead of Sticker Star. Sticker Star's reception would be okay by being considered better than Super Paper Mario but not as good as the first two. Its sticker combat would be criticized, but it would make up for it with its story, characters, and worldbuilding, feeling closer to the first two than Super Paper Mario. If Color Splash and the Origami King become natural evolutions of E3 2010 Sticker Star, then they might be considered on par with the original N64 game in terms of story, characters, and worldbuilding.
@@thedastone1939it could mark a shift at Nintendo remaking so many mario RPG style games and bringing back mario&Luigi we might see a return to form with paper mario with how well TTYD remake did.
Let's hope this will be the beginning of the Renaissance for Paper Mario and go back to how it was since TTYD. I wouldn't mind a Paper Mario 64 Remake as well if that ever happens.
there's a lot to like in here, but while everything is perfectly functional, there's no apparent details that hint on building much of a story aside from the big purple king mole. Which sticker star had issues with its mechanics, but it's the writing that makes paper mario worthwhile.
I believe the battle system looks to have been the same here for Mario though, with the mechanic of collecting stickers and they all have a one time use in battle. However the addition of partners would've been nice. And the stage from the original games would've also been nice.
This preview proves that the mechanics of Sticker Star aren't the game's central problem; it's the sterile world that Paper Mario journeys through, a stark contrast to the lively environments he explores in the preview.
@@aaronTGP_3756yeah Chuggaa talked about it a lot and it was really interesting to discuss its potential and its reasons for failure. But it really was the world and the bad implementation of the mechanics that did it in. My impression was dev hell. Scrapped elements at every turn random restrictions that the dev team couldn’t just ignore because Miyamoto, losing its series director along the way, calling on new hires to take the reigns of a series that was already complicated and kind of special, etc. etc.
No, i search it up and it seems that is not. The next prototypes were far more closer to the final SS build release, so apart of some things like the hud or some unused levels, is the same.
The King Monty Mole boss makes me realize how unique designs really wouldn't be much of a stretch to expect, I know a lot more goes into character design than this but it's crazy how much more charming a design can be if you just change the color and give em a funny accessory
When the Arlo video uses Rougeport Sewers, it's gonna get real.
I wish he'd use the remake version since it slaps so much harder IMO
It's Rogueport, not Rougeport Jesus Christ
Right? Also ignore the rude one. Typos and/or dyslexia happens to everyone.
💀
@@gamertara5903 gigachad commenter
It would be perfectly poetic if the next Paper Mario is a faithful TTYD successor and there's a Chain Chomp partner and a King Monty Mole boss
I just hope said Chain Chomp partner would have a more unique design than just…generic chain chomp. It doesn't have to talk though since I do believe Chain Chomps have rarely, or perhaps have never spoken in the Mario franchise. It could still have a personality though since no dialogue animals can absolutely have that! Heck, maybe we could *name* said Chain Chomp partner!
Pregunta bro, como es q te veo en todas partes, literalmente estas comentando en todos los videos q veo xd
Never gonna happen
I really hope they iterate on the OG TTYD's or even Super Paper Mario's aesthetic for the next game. I know it's called *paper* Mario but it doesn't literally have to look like everything is made of paper
@@Dingalow Especially considering the first game was just called “Mario Story” in Japan.
Getting like 3-4 Arlo videos a day is crazy.
I love it. I need all the arlo content.
@@thespeedyyoshi but I need each vieo to be like 5 hours long. He should stream again.
I remember during those years hearing rumors about a Paper Mario 64 remake for the 3DS but that never came out.
Now watching this leaked trailer demo it all makes sense, it feels so much like a return to the series beginnings, even the Goombas look like they snatched right out of the N64.
I think you're understating how different it looks, in sticker star all the environments are paper and cardboard, this is MUCH more reminiscent of 64 imo
The interesting thing about the environments isn't the archetypes that were used (even though the card maze is unique). It's how they were styled. They are styled like a perfect combination of the best of TTYD & PM64's visuals. You have the Candy Pops in the background, everything looks organic, the grassy area gives off nice cozy PM64 energy. And the enemies all use their classic designs from the first three games too. Plus the Monty Mole king breaks the rules that the final version of Sticker Star was constrained under, he's literally a big purple Monty Mole with a huge mustache and beard, and a crown with a parasitic mushroom growing from his head. The use of mostly basic stuff outside that can be explained away with how early of a prototype it was, but the Monty Mole king, the existence of an overworld/battle partner, and the organic environments rather than overwhelmingly cardboard ones suggest this version was before they forced it to change direction, prioritize being safe story-wise and emphasizing paper everywhere.
Yeah, while the game still seems to suffer from a lot of the same issue as the final game, like the combat system still using stickers or the areas potentially still being seperate levels, (Still feels like it to me at the very least) the overall art direction at least is still is more accurate to classic Paper Mario.
Also, isn't the Monty Mole boss at the end of the trailer just wearing a crown, like all the other Sticker Star bosses did?
it definitely seems like the initial scale of the game looking at the environments and the unique character designs would've been something more akin to paper mario 64, as opposed to what the later games went for, which i can def understand wanting to do after a game as ambitious as spm was. very curious what that would've looked like with this original direction, if it would've still been a story similar to the final version of sticker star, or maybe a story with a scope similar to the original paper mario, as opposed to the more indepth stories of ttyd and spm. if they went with a story like 64 i'm curious if they would've had bowser as the main villain still or if they would've decided to do an original villain, but maybe not one on the same scale as the previous two games.
Woah I can't believe that paper mario's world looked like paper
I get having an issue with the plot surrounding around paper, but saying the arts and crafts aesthetic from the new games were a downground rather than a stylistic choice is just silly ma'am
You said paper! That's hilarious!
@@supermariohack3218literally use context clues my friend. There aren't stickers haphazardly placed on every single surface and only see one pop out of a box. You know what that implies, right?
I will say, there is more evidence that hinted at a bigger game than what we originally got inside the final game's files.
There are traces of an unused original Snake enemy with a boss variant that was intended to be a chapter boss.
Princess Peach has functional overworld controls.
Bowser has unused talking animations.
And there's a lot of leftover data for other unused partners, maps, etc.
An E3 2011 trailer of Sticker Star also showed that it was meant to have 8 chapters instead of the final's 6.
maybe those unused world ideas for level concepts went into world 3 as it has TWELVE LEVELS compared to the rest of the games 5 to 6
who are the partners?
with that info I think it's safe to say that while the game was going to be simpler and less unique than TTYD, I believe either due to senior developers changing the direction of the game or time crunch it lead to the smaller and hastley developed sticker star that we ended up getting
@@thewanderingchelmet there's data for a goomba partner and a partner named "Mr. Slit" who was supposedly able to give Mario the slim ability from TTYD and SPM
@@adept2134It's partly some higher-ups overhaul. Both director Ryota Kawade and major artist Chie Kawabe were out of the picture by Sticker Star. The staff was just trying to figure out what they were doing with the game, until Taro Kudo (the newer games' lead writer) became heavily involved.
The chain chomp would've been so awesome since this partner concept was not done before.
I have waited 14 years to see the full trailer, from that Nintendo World Report cam video. Finally we can see the full things like the E3 attendees. ALSO I LOVE THE MUSIC!!
Still looks way more promising than what we ended up getting I like that it was originally leaning into the original 64 games aesthetic
IKR? Sticker Star lowered the bar by so much that even the most tiny improvements are seen as massive by comparison lol. This does technically look like an improvement, even if not by too much.
Yeah exactly, I feel like the aesthetic was basically taking the best elements from 64 and TTYD's visual styles and mixing them together in an incredibly satisfying way. Imagine scrapping that in favor of a world that intentionally looks artificial and fake.
There's still no sign of any kind of story, so this probably would've still been a massive step down from Thousand Year door, but at least it would've been seen as just a downgrade instead of the franchise jumping the rails and falling into a cliff.
it was a very early trailer, it’s mainly about what it could’ve become than what it was
In the files they found signs of playable peach and Bowser talking so WAY better then we got at least.
@@corasharktaleNot really. In the interview the devs said that they came up with the sticker thing AFTER showing miyamoto a demo and him saying it's "too much like ttyd". This implies that there used to be a different battle system, more like ttyd. This information, combined with the fact that leftover game data suggests there were going to be 8 chapters and a few unused unique enemies, really makes me think there was an earlier iterarion of this game, one BEFORE the one we see in this demo, that really had the same vision as the first two games. How far they already developed that version I'm not completely sure of though.
The game was only in development for less than a year at the point of this trailer being produced. Cut the team some slack who worked on it
Still a shame what happened to this game though, I do wish they continued this version honestly
After watching the footage, it still feels like most of the Sticker Star DNA that fans detest was already present and still would've dragged this game down even if it stayed course on the trailers direction. That said, so much of this gameplay feels so much better than what was actually released and makes me wonder what went so horribly wrong behind the scenes at Intelligent Systems from its inception.
The most glaring issue here is that the sticker battle mechanic is still very solidly present in the trailer, which means that SS's biggest problems were still happening one way or the other, and that is very sad to see that Paper Mario's Art Ages were inevitable. However, the levels feel like they follow a more traditional Mario platformer design, and that actually might have been better than the final game which couldn't commit to linearity or cohesive world design and suffered because of that.
This still feels like it would've been the weakest PM game no matter what and fan hatred at this point in time might've had no significant difference regardless of which version of Sticker Star was released, but at least those still images we've seen for decades now have animation and we have the TTYD remake now. Here's hoping that the next original game truly is a Paper Mario Renaissance and not a return to the divisive status quo of the last decade.
I very much hope so.
Why do people hate the battle system so much? I think the games biggest problems are no characters, boring environments, terrible puzzles, and a boring story. Without things, the battle system is just fine!
@@potatoe972iirc there wasn’t a reliable way to recover stickers after they were used. Which made repeated battles cost more than they earned, which made battles in general a thing to be avoided and an annoyance more than a fun mechanic. Which made the whole game really drag.
@potatoe972 The issues people tend to have with the system are:
1. You can't target enemies, meaning your first attack always hits the first enemy and, assuming you do the battle spin, your second attack will hit the second enemy and so on and so forth, which can be annoying for some.
2. Little move customization since all attacks are expendable. Not to mention if you don't use a sticker but already selected it via the extra moves you get via the battle spin, you lose that sticker.
3. Battles are practically pointless since you only get coins from battles, which you only use to get more stickers or Thing Stickers, and can be gotten through out the levels.
4. Some bosses don't tell you what Thing you need to beat the boss until you need it. This isn't too bad with some bosses, especially since you can cheese some or runaway to get what you need, but the fact that the game doesn't tell you till it's too late is stupid since the game could've had it hinted at prior.
Those are some I could come up with, but people have talked about it too death.
It may well have been the weakest out of the first four, but I'd argue if this version was allowed to develop to fruition and didn't have 99% of its classic PM DNA scrubbed after this build, it would still have cleared Color Splash at least, maybe even Origami King. Not that those would exist in their current forms if this build had been realized to fruition.
I can't even imagine what could have possibly made them completely scrap the way this game was going. Sure its not perfect, but it was early footage and it looked in line with the series. Why shift gears so dramatically?
It didn't look in line with anything. There are stickers and no story.
Because Miyamoto said so. Literally that's the reason. Look at Dinosaur Planet and what it turned into. (Star Fox Adventures is not a bad game, but I would have loved the original version much better)
@@Infindox the whole thing about avoiding new characters was a suggestion, but he never actually enforced it. Intelligent still had full creative control.
@@CeHee123 It is true that it was a suggestion, but there is a culture in Japan that if your superior makes even a minor suggestion its rude for you not to implement any of the asked changes.
@drnanard9605 How do you know there's no story? Also, how are you sure they didn't try to incorporate XP with stickers?
I just realized in the spiky scenes there's a ceiling because they could probably cling to it like the og games
Hopefully someone gets their hands on the build for this someday and uploads it to the internet.
Or some stalward fan/fans go wild and use this footage to try and recreate the dang thing.
This really does recontextualize Paper Mario’s fall from grace for me.
The fact that they, of their own free will, were already considering transitioning the game so far away from the titles that came before it, only for Miyamoto or some other person to come in and tell them that something THIS bland needed to be even BLANDER is staggering.
No wonder it’s taking Paper Mario so long to heal, it was essentially deconstructed from every angle by multiple sources.
Artistic value doesn't sell copies, and Paper Mario and TTYD only barely managed to maintain sales akin to Metroid. Fine sales figures in a vacuum, bad sales figures for Mario.
@@KlldbyCuriosity I do see what you’re saying, but I also think the art and general style of the game can have a pretty big impact on sales. Sticker Star was generic Mario to the Nth degree and the sales and reviews reflected that. Wheras Thousand Year Door had the highest Paper Mario sales for many years when considering attach rates. And Super also sold quite well.
That being said, it is possible that Paper Mario as a whole is somehow held back a little by its art style. Maybe a lot of people see it and just aren’t all that impressed by the simple 2D sprites or something? It’s tough to say.
It was Miyamoto.
He has far more authority than people think.
@@Slacks_PayneLooked into it and I’m pretty sure the original Thousand Year Door STILL has the best sales, when considering AR. So many people with GameCubes got it
@@Neko_Medic Miyamoto has as much Authority over Nintendo's bad games as people think Nomura does over anything Square Enix they dislike
I bet that bit where the wall expands into the background wouldve looked awesome in stereoscopic 3d! I loved playing in 3d on the bigger new 3ds system. 2d games, aidescrollers and such were so awesome to behold.
Since Chain Chomps are more animals in the Mario world I think it would be just a normal looking Chain Chomp.
Wounder if we would get pet simulation mini games like feeding, cleaning or training our Chain Chomp.
We got a chain chomp parner in zelda before we got a chain chomp partner in paper mario
Before they got the orders to make Sticker Star as generic as possible
Interestingly there IS more to this version of the game under the hood- files have been found that imply the chain chomp would go on to get some sort of collar in later versions, as well as other possible partners, I think one was like, something that gave you the slim ability from TTYD? Hints of EXP being a thing were also found.. And then there was this group of enemies called "Manders" which were these.. koopa snake looking enemies that are visible in a much, much later iteration of the game that's closer to sticker star.. as well as names in the files that imply a "King Mander" and "Bonemander"
It's.. pretty interesting stuff
And then with the Mushroom room in this trailer and King Monty Mole's crown being a mushroom seemingly implying some sort of plot detail...
So it seems like it would have, in the end, been at least comparable to Paper Mario 64 perhaps, had it of kept this direction.
Thank you for the further details orbic!
Arlo and Paper mario videos are some of the best topic videos I enjoy listening too
About the monty mole, I have a theory on it. The monty mole and the pink area we see mario walking under ground is infested with mushrooms They make the king go bonkers and is the crux of the problem for the world you find him in. Why do I say this? Watch the monty mole's head when he gets hurt.
My favorite genre of Arlo thumbnails is when he looks whimsically at something with his underbite
I will admit, from what I've seen from this footage, it looks like if we had gotten this version, it would have been a lot more like, say, what Paper Jam is to Mario and Luigi, still enjoyable but most likely the weakest in the franchise. But there's no denying that still would have been better than what we got. Some are claiming the footage proves they were already planning to do away with EXP, but none of the footage shows whether that was going to be there or not. Then for the Chain Chomp, even when the screencaps of it first dropped, people speculated this was just a placeholder design and they might have been planning to add more details later, but considering how often that ends up not being the case, I kinda doubt that.
I believe the chain chomp was gonna have a more detailed design if given more time. As files for the chain chomp partner have been found in the game, and certain animations refer to it wearing a bow or collar. And a chain chomp wearing a bow and collar is the most adorable thing ever. Why Nintendo why why would you remove this?!?!?!?
The way the Chain Chomp partner seems to work here, reminds me of The Origami King a little, ever since someone pointed it out, which makes me think this little guy was most likely temporary.
And now I'm wondering if The Origami King repurposed this idea in the form of temporary partners.
Just makes me sad. Imagining what could have been.
Huzzah. Hallelujah! Thank you for your fearless reporting. This is the best channel on the ’tube.
one of the things i like about Kersti, the partner from sticker star, is that she is tsundere, but this aspect of her character would have been way funnier if she was a chain chomp
The writing would have been amazing
Kersti wasn't tsundere she was just rude. She screams at you at the start of the game, she screams at you in the middle of the game and then expects you to feel sad when she sacrifices herself at the end. She sucks I'd rather chill with the paint bucket
Butternut Squash? Yes Please!
Butternut Squash? Yes Please!
Please Yes! Squash Butternut?
I swear I watched this footage in a very small discord server about 3 months back. Didn't realize nobody else had found it lol
There’s a really small chance that you did. The footage was never dumped and never recorded beyond the really short footage we have from the event back in 2010. The full trailer was lost media for 14 years.
I guess you can say this new Paper Mario footage has been UNWRAPPED! 😏
I'll see myself out.
No, stay. The pun was good.
It was an ok pun. It didn't fall flat, but I wouldn't call it one for the books either
@@jakethedragonymaster1235 are you auditioning to being a writer for Paper Mario or something?
I wanna name that Chain Chomp "Charlie".
This warms my soul, Paper Mario is my absolute favorite series.
Regardless if it has the same overall concept, what I WILL give it is that there is much more enemy variety, the idea for partners was going to continue, and the attacks and designs were more akin to the earlier titles. Since Super Paper Mario was meant to be played with a simpler controller and was just a platformer without battles, obviously it couldn't be the EXACT same thing coming off of that to a dual-screen system with turn-based battles, but here it seems that the continuity from it was spot-on, like they sort of mixed ttyd's battles with spm's platforming segments, seeing how you can still use things in the environment and some areas have a 2D-3D style (not like the flip, but more like the illusion of it, like the card maze.) And on top of that, the attacks look like the badges from earlier games, as well as the enemy designs looking like their super paper mario designs, except for wiggler, and the new enemies they made. I still think it would have been much better in this way. And as for the environments and NPCs, maybe they would have looked better too, only we never got to see it because for the Alpha builds they never showed any early designs for those.
Has anyone pointed out how the battle with the bone fish and the spineys have another battle ground on the ceiling? Like maybe there could’ve been upside down battles or enemies that fight on the ceiling
I'll mention what I say in the original video: I see a lot of Sticker Star, but I also see the aesthetics of PM64 which I think would've fit beautifully on a 3DS
I remember you could download a trailer of this game from the 3ds eshop alongside other games like LM2 and ACNL. But I can't remember if the Paper Mario one was exactly like this or not.
People like blaming miyamoto on ruining sticker star, but forget he said the game was boring after playing it. When even the creator of mario doesn't like your mario game its probably a bad game. Really sad a game that looked like it had potential got ruined though
The environments and even the battle stage remind me a lot of paper Mario 64 which is honestly pretty cool
I was waiting for this video to be uploaded
Stickers supposedly had a much smaller role compared to the game we got. There's other things left over in the files that aren't shown in the trailer that indicate a lot more differences.
Someone is gonna make a fan game of this someday
Already exists and it's glorious, it's called: "Bug Fables"
Oh that would be sick if someone made a fan game or modded the original game to add this. Unfortunately it will probably never happen.
I definitely think you’ve memory-holed Sticker Star (don’t blame you). While there are some animations and the sticker concept in this trailer are reminiscent to that of the final game, this is far more in line with PM64 than you’re giving credit. The environments are just like, actual places without being made of paper, the combat layout seems the same (granted, with the stickers it seems to progress roughly the same as SS), the boss has a unique design and isn’t tied to any sort of real-world paper thing, of course there’s the partner who has both a combat and field ability (I wouldn’t say his standard Chain Chimp appearance should be taken as a sign of creative mandates, but maybe more just an early version), those horsetail blue things are back, the background stretch animation is more in line with visual effects from the older games than the papercraft effects from SS, and between the purple cave and card room, it seems that more personality was put into the locations than just bog standard NSMB areas in SS.
I dunno still looks like a game involving stickers just with a chomp partner
There would definitely have been more original stuff had the game continued this direction, there's some unused collision models and references to removed battle maps from a build around the time of the trailer, including a sewer system like those in 64 and TTYD and some sort of rotating warehouse. references to unique enemies do exist in some files and have been documented on TCRF, also there is empty strings related to starpoints in the file that stores all global text
I requested this video! Yessss!
Having partners in TLOZ vs having partners in Paper Mario:
Yes! It is amazing to me that a lot of people think this could have been a much better game closer to the original Paper Marios, and it could be, but the main complain a lot of the people had on those times were the rpg mechanics being absent in battles and exp. I think If the game ended up like in the beta, the community would talk about it like when we got Origami King, similar to the OG ones but not quite. There would still be plenty of criticism for not having partners with unique designs.
Weird thing is: When this like early prototype of sticker star is mentioned I remember a little booklet they had in a local electronics store, like a little ad from Nintendo with all the upcoming games and in that booklet it showed more early footage. I can only remember like an ice level with multiple of those snowmen like the boss of world 4.
Never saw those pictures again anywhere sadly :/
I remembered when I first saw the trailer of this game and was thinking " This is what Super Paper Mario should've been. A Turned-Based RPG combat with better world designs rather than being a side scrolling RPG with worlds that felt deadweight & cryptic. ". As time goes by, the trailer took a different approach from what I usually see and was like " Ok. Fine. The game will still be decent anyway. Right? ". Only realizing that it wasn't exactly what I wanted after The Thousand Year Door. It was completely different & all the stuff they added just doesn't work. I wish we would've gotten something better. They should've stick to what the first trailer had and go through that. All I wanted was an successor to The Thousand Year Door. Why couldn't they just stick to that and improved on it? That's all I ever wanted.
Sadly, Miyamoto attacked.
Not that different from the final version but different enough that we were still robbed man
They probably just got the hi definition file from the giga leak
I wonder what made them go from that purple Monty Mole to bosses that are generic Mario enemies but giant.
The prototype had more creative designs for sure.
Damn. So the stickers were like attack combos. Why didnt we get this...
Here's something funny but sad. Kensuke Tanabe is the producer of a revival of a beloved Nintendo series, trying to innovate on its formula after three games. Its a dev team filled with newbies trying to make a game in this series despite clear issues in development.
I am describing both Metroid Prime and Paper Mario: Sticker Star. Wild how different these scenarios went.
Tanabe was also the producer of Super Paper Mario (and a supervisor for TTYD), though in that case, a lot of the big veteran designers were still working on the series. He couldn't quite get there himself.
based on the footage I don't think this is even representative of the build they had if they even had one. This seems like a basic tech demo to me, made specifically for this e3 presentation, or one that was made to test what paper mario could look like on 3ds that was repurposed for the show. I doubt that anything beyond just the walking around was even playable.
Seeing the trailer just makes me more depressed because now I know what we could've gotten lol
I remember when the first Paper Mario came out. I loved that little game but I was made fun of as well for it. =\
I like the playing card area, more interesting than anything in Sticker Star
Even if the gameplay probably still would have had some issues, this would have been so much better. It also probably would have resulted in Color Splash and Origami King being more like classic Paper Mario even if the gameplay was still a bit off. Really sucks its taken this long to even get them to just do a remake. I really can't fathom how anyone at Nintendo thought the final game would be an improvement over this.
Very happy this trailer was found
It does feel neat to watch this, I wouldn’t know how similar this feels to the original game given that I never played Sticker Star but yeah it is too bad they decided to remove the chain chomp
The battle system was changed to a sucky deck builder thing
wonder if we will ever see og dread and scraped prime 4 stuff some time in the future
Would be awesome if someday this build leaks and you can just play it on your 3ds.
I hope someone has that alpha build somewhere. I can only dream that one day it'd be miraculously finished by someone
I want a paper Mario game that tackles the concept of families and companionship, with Mario adopting a chain chomp for the entire adventure. Maybe try to find the original owner, even. Could perfectly tie Bowser and Bowser Jr. into that theme.
To think we could've had a Chain Chomp partner. At least one was playable in the Switch's Mario Tennis.
While stickers seems to be at the core of the game, this trailer still shows so much more life than what we eventually got. But I still think this game would've been the worst paper mario at the time of release, since the core issues like game level design and story would've still reared their ugly head.
Honestly, I think the world art looks way more like TTYD. Certain areas like the swamp look more SS but I think that's cause they're in the final game.
The prototype down to the mechanics are, by far, superior to the final product. The enemies are much more creative than what we got. The fact that, in the final game, the partners mechanic was scrapped in favor of the stickers makes me feel disappointed. The game would’ve been better if they’d didn’t choose to scrap this. Kersti, the sentient tiara character, is wasted potential and Mario deserves a better guide than this. The prototype’s levels had effort put into them unlike the ones we got.
I’m so mad this is literally the game I always wanted
Ive been saying it, but this really makes me sad we could have gotten this... it looks so GOOOOD
Does anybody have any news if the ttyd remake did any good sales wise?
Does the future look bright for paper mario?
Looks like it was still gonna have stickers. Meh. Shame we lost the Chain Chomp partner though.
I completely agree, it doesn't look _that_ different from normal Sticker Star. Although it might've been enough to at least convince me to finish the game and not pawn it off to a friend
One could probably pop open a game engine and recreate most of this in about a month or two. -I... I'm tempted, btw.-
Wait, this was lost footage? I still have this trailer saved on my 3ds.
If Sticker Star was the way it was in E3 2010, then Super Paper Mario would've never received the appreciation it got, and it would be considered the worst game instead of Sticker Star. Sticker Star's reception would be okay by being considered better than Super Paper Mario but not as good as the first two. Its sticker combat would be criticized, but it would make up for it with its story, characters, and worldbuilding, feeling closer to the first two than Super Paper Mario. If Color Splash and the Origami King become natural evolutions of E3 2010 Sticker Star, then they might be considered on par with the original N64 game in terms of story, characters, and worldbuilding.
And thus now we ask to
#ReleaseThePaperCut
Crazy how we never got a true Paper Mario RPG since TTYD, until TTYD remake.
Yet it’s still a remake
@@thedastone1939it could mark a shift at Nintendo remaking so many mario RPG style games and bringing back mario&Luigi we might see a return to form with paper mario with how well TTYD remake did.
Let's hope this will be the beginning of the Renaissance for Paper Mario and go back to how it was since TTYD. I wouldn't mind a Paper Mario 64 Remake as well if that ever happens.
What if the chain chomp was just Mario's dog?
Just wait till someone ROM Hacks sticker star to be like this
there's a lot to like in here, but while everything is perfectly functional, there's no apparent details that hint on building much of a story aside from the big purple king mole. Which sticker star had issues with its mechanics, but it's the writing that makes paper mario worthwhile.
Ngl this still looks more creative than sticker star the card room and the dark cave along with the king mole this would have been better
This is like the video game equivalent of SMiLE being canceled and Smiley Smile getting made instead.
I never thought I would see someone mention that, man what happened to that album was a tragedy
Dang... we could have had a good game that wasn't shameful to the point sticker star was
I believe the battle system looks to have been the same here for Mario though, with the mechanic of collecting stickers and they all have a one time use in battle.
However the addition of partners would've been nice. And the stage from the original games would've also been nice.
This preview proves that the mechanics of Sticker Star aren't the game's central problem; it's the sterile world that Paper Mario journeys through, a stark contrast to the lively environments he explores in the preview.
Sterile worlds and story, and bad implementation of the new ideas. Something really went wrong between that trailer and the release.
@@aaronTGP_3756yeah
Chuggaa talked about it a lot and it was really interesting to discuss its potential and its reasons for failure. But it really was the world and the bad implementation of the mechanics that did it in. My impression was dev hell. Scrapped elements at every turn random restrictions that the dev team couldn’t just ignore because Miyamoto, losing its series director along the way, calling on new hires to take the reigns of a series that was already complicated and kind of special, etc. etc.
It’s not too late bring this back Nintendo
I wish we got this instead. Maybe theyll make a new paper mario with normal gameplay now that ttyd remake is such a hit.
I’d have to look to see if that’s true.
Yikes I feel bad for paper Mario fans well I’m glad TTYD remake is coming out
Wowie zowie!
Literally saw this the other day
Paper Mario TTYD remaster review when?
Notably, no white outlines.
Was the chain chomp partner shown in a different trailer other than this?
No, i search it up and it seems that is not. The next prototypes were far more closer to the final SS build release, so apart of some things like the hud or some unused levels, is the same.