Did People in the Bible Really Live for 900 Years? | Fr. Mike Schmitz | Catholic Answers
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Early parts of the Bible depict humans living incredibly long lives-some of them for over 900 years! Are Catholics really supposed to believe that humans lived that much longer than they do today? Fr. Mike Schmitz discusses this question on Catholic Answers Live.
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Father Michael Schmitz, director of Youth and Young Adult Ministry for the Diocese of Duluth as well as the chaplain for the Newman Center at the University of Minnesota-Duluth, inspires and educates through his priesthood and preaching. His Newman Center focuses on helping students be fed through the sacraments and grow in knowledge about the teachings of the Church. Ordained in 2003 at St. Paul Seminary, he has preached to youth and young adults across the country about the love of God and the call of Jesus Christ for saints to be raised up in the Church. Father Mike’s hope is that these saints will redeem the entire world for Christ.
Do We Take the Ages of People in the Bible Literally?
Yaaaay mama I made it !!! My question!
Good question!
Praise God!
Such a good question bro
Lol, nice!!! 🙌🏼🤗🙏🏼💕
Good question!
Nothing is impossible with God
I agree.
@@nosuchthing8 being omnipotent and all powerful doesn't mean that someone can do things that are logically impossible. And I think you meant a round triangle because circles are round🤣
I had the same question. Loving Bible in a Year! Thank you Father Mike! 🙏🏽
Some of the work of the Kolbe Center is great in this area. I remember decades ago watching a documentary on the human body. According to the scientist on that show they believed the human body was designed to live for 1000 years or so. They attributed the shortened life span to corrupted DNA, sickness, disease, and heredity factors. It would make sense that if Adam had a perfect genome in a pristine world; he would live so long and so would the generations closest to him. We are told the Fall began a crescendo of negative effects not only on fallen humans but all of Nature. It also appears the time of the Flood must have been a time of rapid degradation for the Earth. Immediately afterward; not just humans but plants and animals within a few generations became more disease ridden and experienced greatly shortened lifespans with more 'health'-issues.
Apparently with the advent of DNA decoding; it has been determined with some reliability how many genetic defects enter our gene-pool with each successive generation. Working backward it is estimated there could have been 'perfect' humans about 6000 years ago. What a coincidence.
The actual science of evolutionary processes does indicate that the vast majority of species on earth are degenerating. Now, without speculating off the deep end, it is also possible the mystery lies in the pre-flood world that was destroyed, the fall of man, nephilim, etc.
Then the Lord said, "My spirit will not contend with (or remain in) humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be 120 years". Genesis 6:3
Its plausible that the fall of mankind resulted in shorter lifespans.
There is a great book called genetic entropy and the mystery of the human genome wherein the author explores this concept of de-evolution. Everyone assumes evolution always results in “progress” when the reality is the opposite. Random changes or mistakes in the copying of genetic code from one generation to the next are more likely to have no impact or a slightly negative impact to survivability. In the rare case that it is extremely negative, the mechanism of natural selection removes the change. But this is only the case if death (prior to reproduction) occurs. In most cases the mistakes add up over generations, reducing lifespan.
Based
Yep!
@@Miroshen Thanks for the book recommendation. I've long thought that the choice to describe the gradual change in the human species as an "evolution" rather than mere change is a function of the inherent conceit of man. An embellishment of objective observations (the changes/mutations), designed to arouse the tendency of our intellectual capacities to overestimate its own worth - resembling the way that Lucifer is said to do so before God. As a Christian, I realise how farcical the debate between Christianity and Evolution is that atheists love to establish. There is no such impasse. Christianity is not at odds with the evidence of evolution (the only truth of it), it is at odds with referring to it as an Evolution, and likewise the pride which brings this naming about. A pride which establishes itself and goes unchecked during the Enlightenment and beyond (self-proclaimed light-bearers). Any critique of my thinking is welcome, as well as more book recommendations :).
I had this question when I listened to Fr. Mike's podcast.
It's something I've thought about for a long time. One conclusion I reached as a younger Catholic was they could be talking about months. It would have been easy to determine a moon cycle back then, not so much the sun. And 900 years or so would have been equivalent to 75+ years, a much more reasonable human lifetime by modern standards.
@@aureumursa1833
That makes sense!! It's possible 😊
It could be possible, because the ancient world didn’t use the modern Gregorian calendar.
Wow I'm kinda surprised to see Father Schmitz on CA! I like him a lot, I love the enthusiasm he has and how simple put precise explanation he gives. Cheers!
The energy throughout our universe is supernatural. The life force that causes our hearts to beat is supernatural. Our very existence is supernatural. All gifts from God.
We are talking about the supernatural here. With that in mind anything is possible. God can do anything. It is the same with the Trinity which other religions fail to understand. God can do anything. God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit. One God in three forms. We must remember we are having a human experience and think like a human which at times might struggle to accept something the supernatural delivers.
"For nothing will be impossible with God"(Luke 1:37)
Not to mention the calendar and years were not looked at the way we look at them now.
Any way you look at it, they were old, they were beyond the age of child bearing, God is great and can do anything He wants.
Genesis 6:3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
I think that verse is referring to the time before He sends the flood, not lifespan.
It was later changed in the scriptures as man was degrading, it is now three score years and ten, or 70. Governments say we are living longer, but that is not true, the generation that lived that long were the war years because of their lifestyle and food intakes. Once that generation are gone we will be back to normal.
Jesus believed in Adam and Eve. He believed in the Flood. He believed in the Patriarchs. But what did he know, right?
Exactly. One of the reasons I left Catholicism; their real disregard for Scripture in comparison to their “tradition”.
@Richard Fox : As Pontius Pilate said to Jesus : "What is truth?"
@@tomdelash7289 Disregard for Scripture?
@@aci. not total disregard, but they won’t let conflicting Scripture stand in the way of their tradition.
Father Mike!!!!
Thanks 🙏
The first few chapters of Genesis, with the exception of chapter 1, are so ancient. Their original context has largely been lost over time. Comparing them to the intent of other ancient Mesopotamian texts has been very enlightening for me. I have spent several years studying these works. They are nothing short of awe-inspiring. The views I now loosely hold as to the intent of these texts are not shared by many in the church.
The channel Inspiring Philosophy did a video on this question. It helped me understand that portion of Genesis.
The first thing we need to clarify is that the Bible is not a book of data, it is a spiritual revelation that reveals God salvation plan.
There is also the possibility that they didn't have the modern definition of a year. For us is obvious that a year is 365 but probably thousands years ago it wasn't.
Ultimately the purpose is not the data but the meaning of the message.
Psalms 90:10 "The days of our years are threescore years and ten."
Threescore and ten = 70.
70 years = 910 moons/months(13 moon cycles a year).
Ancient peoples aged themselves by moons/months.
St. Augustine said we cannot admit one LIE in Sacred Scripture. Should we limit God's power by our lack of faith?
Sure there is no lie. But another thing is the real idea that was expected to be conveyed.
When scripture talks about the lamb of God, doesn't mean he is actually a lamb.
Spiritually is like a lamb.
The Bible is not a book of data but a spiritual revelation.
This is way out of context, As an example, St Augustine didn’t believe in 7 day creation so the Saint you’re quoting didn’t even mean what you’re trying to put out. He’s open to multiple forms of interpretation
"God" is omnipotent. Period.
There was a turning point... people lived several hundred years until Genesis 6.3 And God said: “My spirit shall not remain in man forever, because he is flesh. And so his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”
Yes they did, the bible is very clear on it.
I always think it could have been that they had a cleaner gene pool..no cancerous pollution..organic food..no fast food and no junk food..and they didnt smoke cigarettes!
Yeah, less gene entropy I guess. Also question is how was environment back then, humidity, air pressure, air quality, was diet more aligned with nature, because of lover entropy there was probably less mutations of bacteria, viruses and fungus.
Hard to tell, but we always have to remember that God can do what ever he wants. If he can speak things into existence, he can manipulate reality as he pleases.
But it makes sense. You have "perfect body" in Eden, then sin enters the world and introduces defects all over the place, from spiritual realm, to psychological and material.
In God, I believe, everything is balanced, ordered and aligned to perfection. Without him, this order and harmony collapses. But because He didn't forsaken us, through his power He's bring back all things, making them anew. Exact protocol can't be known, but I believe it will be revealed to us in after life, all his glory. We can be sure however, it is pure act of love.
@@brokula1312 Viral infections that include their genetic material into ours, genetic deterioration through mutations, Telomere generational shortening.
Actually, we shouldn't make assumptions about the technological state of antediluvian society. With 900-year lifespans, they could have made tremendous technological advancements. If people lived 900 years today, we could be discussing theology with Thomas Aquinas, engineering with Leonardo da Vinci, and Isaac Newton would be critiquing the advancements that Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking made on his physics research.
They did have war , accidents , natural disasters & plagues , STD's , diseases like Leprosy , probably diseases like scirosis , malaria etc....!Oh y'a I forgot , they are our descendants the most important is "SIN" !!!!!
They most certainly did. I tell you too, when the Lord Jesus returns to this earth as the Son of Man, after the Tribulation period, you will find that long life will once again be the norm. Someone dying at 100 will be classed as having died young.
@Richard Fox No. I wasn't there, but the Lord Jesus who is the eternal Son, created the worlds in the beginning, and He acknowledges Noah and other Old Testament dignitaries, otherwise He would have said that it was not true. He is the way, the truth and the Life.
In the realm of the Divine nothing is impossible. That's what I believe. And to all you other sinners out there I bid three farewell and goodnight God bless🙏 ✝️
Much love to Fr. Mike Schmitz, but Genesis 1-50 is all history history according to the Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church.
The Bible as a whole is History
The Bible isn't a history book. Silly person.
@@robcampbell3118 it’s not a history book as a whole because it doesn’t only talk about history but what is in it is History but if what’s inside a book from before your time is telling you about the truth before your time and about the world before your time it’s a book of History but it’s a Book of Truth and Book of God but it also includes History
@@uhhh604 Some of it is poetry, some of it is philosophy, some of it is allegory etc etc etc. You are misreading it I'm afraid.
@@robcampbell3118 some are but the books like Genesis Kings Samuel chronicles and the Gospels Of Matthew Mark Luke and John are telling about history but it’s not the main purpose. Most books have History with Poetry and philosophy but all of the books have Allegory
Scratch a literal long age doubter and you’ll probably find a universal flood doubter.
@Richard Fox the flood story of peru was more similar to the bible where the cheif God "Vericocha" whipes out earth because humans had a "heart of stone"
@Richard Fox but the epic of gilgamesh isn't even that similar to the story of noah's flood and they probably developed separately
@Richard Fox that's like saying the napoleonic wars and ww2 are the same because they have crazy dictators that lose to britians navy and russian winter
Richard Fox Or the babylonians, hebrews, and basically every culture on earth are all recording a flood story because a flood actually happened within their history.
Catholics have believed that the first 11 chapters of Genesis is allegorical.
Catholics aren't fundamentalists, the Flood and the ages of the earliest patriarchs aren't literal. Also evolution isn't ridiculed, you can be Catholic and accept evolution.
I am curious does anyone know how the calendar system worked backed then?
It was probably based on lunar cycles (28 days per month roughly). If these people were advanced enough to build a huge tower (Babel) with bronze age/iron age tools they probably had a pretty good grasp on mathematics, astronomy too.
If you believe in Jesus, when He returns to rule on this Earth people will live to be 1000 years old.
All Life that exists on this earth is a miracle. Just sit back and think about it for a minute. How wonderful and beautiful and amazing life is and how rare it is in our realm of understanding.
Only on this precious earth is life found
Yes
The problem with the “blessings” idea is that God explicitly explains why we don’t live as long. He says that he is going to take away their life span.
So our modern lifespans are the unnatural life spans.
@Caroline Rose Genesis 6:3 is when He reduced it.
@@Arkangilos sources: trust me
@@SirRyanChadius I literally gave a source right above your post. Looks like you might need some glasses.
@@SirRyanChadius Since you need your hand held and a specific verse number isn’t good enough for you, here is some context:
5:5 And all the time that Adam lived, came to nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
5:6 Seth also lived a hundred and five years, and begot Enos.
5:7 And Seth lived after he begot Enos, eight hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years, and he died.
5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begot Cainan.
5:10 After whose birth he lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years, and he died.
5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Malaleel.
5:13 And Cainan lived after he begot Malaleel, eight hundred and forty years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years, and he died.
5:15 And Malaleel lived sixty-five years and begot Jared.
5:16 And Malaleel lived after he begot Jared, eight hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:17 And all the days of Malaleel were eight hundred and ninety-five years, and he died.
5:18 And Jared lived a hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Henoch.
5:19 And Jared lived after he begot Henoch, eight hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years, and he died.
5:21 And Henoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Mathusala.
5:22 And Henoch walked with God: and lived after he begot Mathusala, three hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:23 And all the days of Henoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.
5:24 And he walked with God, and was seen no more: because God took him.
5:25 And Mathusala lived a hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech.
5:26 And Mathlusala lived after he begot Lamech, seven hundred and eighty-two years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:27 And all the days of Mathusala were nine hundred and sixty-nine years, and he died.
5:28 And Lamech lived a hundred and eighty-two years, and begot a son.
5:29 And he called his name Noe, saying: This same shall comfort us from the works and labours of our hands on the earth, which the Lord hath cursed.
5:30 And Lamech lived after he begot Noe, five hundred and ninety-five years, and begot sons and daughters.
5:31 And all the days of Lamech came to seven hundred and seventy-seven years, and he died. And Noe, when he was five hundred years old, begot Sem, Cham, and Japheth.
6:1 And after that men began to be multiplied upon the earth, and daughters were born to them,
6:2 The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
6:4 Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown.
6:5 And God seeing that the wickedness of men was great on the earth, and that all the thought of their heart was bent upon evil at all times,
-
And here is commentary from St. Ephrem:
“This generation will not live nine hundred years like the previous generations, for it is flesh and its days are filled with the deeds of flesh. Therefore, their days will be one hundred and twenty years. If they repent during this time, they will be saved from the wrath that is about to come upon them. But if they do not repent, by their deeds they will call down wrath upon themselves. Grace granted one hundred and twenty years for repentance to a generation that, according to justice, was not worthy of repentance. .”
And commentary from Haydock:
His days shall be The meaning is, that man's days, which before the flood were usually 900 years, should now be reduced to 120 years. Or rather, that God would allow men this term of 120 years, for their repentance and conversion, before he would send the deluge. (Challoner)
He spoke therefore to Noe in his 480th year. (St. Augustine) Those who suppose, that he foretold this event 20 years later, think with St. Jerome, that God retrenched 20 years from the time first assigned for penance. The Spirit of the sovereign Judge was fired with contending; or, as others translate it, with remaining quiet as in a scabbard, and bearing with the repeated crimes of men. He resolved to punish them severely in this world, that he might show mercy to some of them hereafter. (St. Jerome, 9. Heb.) (Calmet)
If we suppose, that God here threatens to reduce the space of man's life to 120 years, we must say, at least, that he did it by degrees: for many lived several hundred years, even after the deluge. In the days of Moses, indeed, few exceeded that term. But we think the other interpretation is more literal, and that God bore with mankind the full time which he promised. (Worthington)
@@Arkangilos sources: braaaaaaaaaaap
In the Jerusalem Bible there is a great commentary on that subject. It shows how sin keeps degradatinghuman life. And it is progressive.. as the days pass, sin gets graver and human life shorter.
Very good. Except that life expectancy has gone longer and longer...
@@lfidarraga Due to medical intervention...not natural longevity
@Raphaël De Valentin where fo you get that judgement from. I mean five children go to the shop a drug addict plows into them killing four anf injuring one very nasty stuff The addict survived That doesnt make sense the oldest was 11. Put a decimal point in.
@Джеймс Буржуа but what about the politicians and elites and heads of corporations and bad corrupt ppl that don't seem to die? I wish that was the case for them
@@lfidarraga that depends on how you count it. most humans in history didn't die from cancer(though that did happen) children usually died fron disease, men died from violence, and women died from childbirth. this was how it went the vast majority of the time. if you survived to adulthood, didn't get into a fight, and weren't killed pushing a baby out, than it wasn't at all weird to live till your eighties. it's just that typically only certain classes could manage that.
this in mind, a case could be made that our modern medicine isn't so much expanding our life span, as it is allowing those who would have been killed by violence, disease or having too many babies to live their natural lifespan.
beyond saving kids and women and injured men, I imagine modern nutrition and light labor actually have a bigger effect on pushing people past 80 to 100
At one place I read that all these fathers who live very long years were ante-diluvian (before the flood). In the story of Creation, it is mentioned that God created a firmament which separated waters from above from waters below. Normally, we assume the waters above as clouds. What if it were not, and there were waters above which blocked the harmful rays of the sun, thereby reducing oxidation of cells in our body - the prime reason of aging, that contributed to the longer lifespans. And during the flood, God opened up those waters above. It is mentioned in the Bible that after the flood, God reduced the lifespan to 125 years
The part where God says "no one will live past 120" actually He doesnt say that He says "man's days will be 120 years" meaning 120 years from the moment He said it until the Flood.
To increase and multiply per descendants , longer lives would have been necessary (?)
Yes when GOD walked the earth
Why is it difficult to accept this, the world before the flood was a different place, in the writings of joshephus he says there were many ancient historians that spoke of the ancients before the flood lived up to a thousand years.
But note that as the Bible narrative progresses the life span gradually decreases till it reached the "three score and ten" mentioned in Psalms 90:10. By David's time, around 1000 B.C., it was down to where it has remained till our day, with some exceptions.
Whether Scripture is expressing reality in mundane or poetic terms, I remember first Who the Author Is. The Lord can speak metaphorically to His Children, as He did in His parables. I do take the miraculous ages of the OT figures as literal, because I believe the Lord speaks His Message in the way best suited for His people (throughout the ages) to understand Him. I think modern approaches to understanding scripture can be too clever by half and miss the Message. It’s more reliable, for me I believe, to accept the story as it is, told by The Father to His children. As a father, I know what it is to tell complex ideas and truths to little children. It’s the Truth, transmitting the essence, that’s key. The details aren’t necessary often and can often hinder understanding. Yet when the Lord of the Universe breathes out Scripture, to be understood by the greatest and simplest of human minds, the stories seem to me to have multiple levels of understanding, each full of lifegiving wisdom.
Fr. Schmitz: why are you?
Drax: why is gamora?
Is That in the Bible?
Ancient of Days
Father Anthony Giambrone, o.p. has an interesting article in “Magnificat” January issue that addresses this very question. He is a Dominican priest and professor of the New Testament at the Ecole biblique de Jerusalem.
God is God and we are not. God is all powerful, infinite. Deo Gratias.
Why did Abraham laugh at the fact that God said he would have a child after the age 100, if Lamech was 182 when he had Noah and lived for another 595 years after Noah?!
Was it Abraham who laughed or Sarah? Also note that as from Genesis 6.3 life of man was shortened to 120 years
A lack of faith, perhaps? Not sure.
@@Hsauzier it was both who laughed! Sarah laughed in unbelief, while Abraham laughed in wonder. My example is about Noah and Lamech, who were mentioned in Genesis 5:29, which comes before Gensis 6:3
@@st.michaelthearchangel7774 But why would Abraham lack such belief if it didn't go against the norms of humanity? (I.e. if people lived to be over 120, then God telling Abraham he will father children after age 100 would not cause Abraham to lack faith, unless people only lived to 120 at most, since fathering a child at 100 would seem ridiculous)
Abraham went on to have 8 more children after Sarah died with his next wife.
Something I've always wondered is what kind of years they were measuring in. Obviously they couldn't be using our calender. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like their calender was lost in translation
I know the oldest bible copies we have, the years were 360 days
I think it's pretty clear. The Bible says, flat out, that they did live that long.
And it says it in such a detailed and elaborate way that would greatly reduce the possibility that the original author was adding lyrical embellishment to what they thought to be a spiritual message.
I see absolutely no reason to believe people did not live that long. The earth was scarcely populated in the beginning and so it makes sense for people to live longer and procreate longer.
They don’t define how long a year is in the text.
yep.. the calendar we're using today hasn't been around that long. Nobody knows how long a year was in the Old Testament.
The ancients knew what seasons, solstices etc. were.
@@berwynsigns4115 this time predates science. Your talking a time before people knew anything about the structure of the solar system let alone planetary orbits. How on earth do you expect they would measure a year anything close to what modern humans do.
As far as seasons … it’s Israel … how much do you think the weather changes in the Middle East? You think they get snow or rainy season? I’m not entirely certain they would know precisely when the equinox occurs … they didn’t have watches to measure how long the sun shone let alone chart it over decades. We know today how to measure time by completing an orbit around the sun … they had no clue back then this is what the earth did. Even when we did figure out the earth orbited the sun it took us ages to come up with a calendar that allowed for the idea that it wasn’t an exact 365 days to go around the sun … 1582 AD. More than 7000 years before genesis was written.
I think Father Mike wants to draw people in to engaging with the Bible and therefore doesn't want to turn off anyone to it. He does say yowards the end that the first chapters, pre Abraham,is "poetic history", alluding to idea that the ages and other details are not necessarily meant to be read as actual historical details.
The word of God is the only authoritative word we have, so if it is in the word of God than we can be sure it is sure and true.
I think one easy to start ruling out things is to figure out if it is even physically and biologically possible to live that long. That would for sure put you in the miracle area.
The Bible says lifespans went from 900 years old and kept going down to 120 years old.
Why did people only live for 20 years, and lifespan kept rising to about 80 years? Why would lifespans start rising again after they have been falling in the bible?
I will never die.
When we think of this question, this Scriptural claim of such long lives, we should remember that Scripture states that to God, a thousand years is as a day. It is nothing difficult at all, that people should have lived so long, moreover, from God's point of view, the oldest person recorded in Scripture was not even a full one day old.
On point! Love it!
Noah was 600 when he built the ark. After that the Bible says that human life spans would be limited to 120 years
Just a thought..... I maybe wrong here but could it be that people of that time peroid May have saw time differently then we do now? As for example a year could be like one season to them?
I would never want to live for 900 years
How about eternity?
I would if you stayed young and had a satisfying occupation. Broke down with age and stuck a slave to a cruel master? No way!
@@samcomfort1174 Excellent question. It's not about how long you live but the quality of life. Back then the world was so simple and life was so sweet, that the tedium of time and sorrows of life were perfectly tolerable.
@Don Ron The point is that eternity is much longer than 900 years.
This would also make perfect sense if Adam and Eve were in fact immortal before eating the fruit
IN THE BEGINING......WHEN WAS THE BEGINING....AND WAS THERE A BEFORE BEFORE THE BEGINING....
These are the kinds of discussions where the certainty of evangelicals is more reassuring.
Yes, deception can be that way. The truth can be harder to accept.
I think it is most likely the case that conditions before the flood were more suitable to longer life, in that food was more nourishing, people were stronger, and long life was in accordance with God's will for man for the population of the planet. It is only after the flood that mankind is permitted to eat animals as food (since most of the prior vegetation had just been wiped out by the flood), and after the flood we see giants only rarely (such as Goliath). Some people in the Bible and history seem to be supernaturally preserved, such as those assumed into heaven (as Mary) or the incorruptible bodies of saints.
Psalm 91:14-16
God says, “I will save those who love me and will protect those who acknowledge me as Lord. When they call to me, I will answer them; when they are in trouble, I will be with them. I will rescue them and honor them. I will reward them with long life; I will save them.”
Proverbs 3:2
My teaching will give you a long and prosperous life.
If anyone has a background in anthropology/biology/ a related field, I’d love your input. How is it that we’re actually able to tell how old human skeletons were when they died?
It isn’t hard to distinguish an adult from a child, but how can one tell whether a hunter gatherer from thousands of years ago was 20 vs 30 vs 40? Does it mostly rely on markers of aging? If this is the case, I don’t see it as totally implausible that people just aged significantly slower in the early days of humanity. This means that the skeleton of someone who lived 400-500 years would *appear* to be 40-50, matching the traits that a modern human that old would have.
I’m certainly no young Earth creationist, but to me a no literal interpretation of the old *human* ages poses several issues for scripture
With the preternatural gifts their genetics were darned good.
People lived longer before the flood. Not too hard to figure out from there why, scientifically, we don't live as long.
There is every reason to believe that the Biblical ages are real. There are 2 physical reasons for this. It is bacause the sea levels were at least 100 meters lower. This means that the oxygen levels were higher, so people healed faster and had less illnesses. Also there was the water canopy above the heavens that protected the earth from the solar rays from the sun. Therefore there were less free radicals. Therefore the aging process was slower. Also the water canopy acted like a greenhouse therefore having a milder climate.
So a slower aging process with a faster healing process and a moderate climate can easily extend human life 10 fold. So instead of people living for 70 to 90 years, they reached 700 to 900 years.
The first mistake we make interpreting Scripture and trying to understand how things like a life span of 4-900 years could happen, we project the current condition of Earth back in time several thousand years. If you read Genesis and understand there was a layer of water ABOVE our atmosphere which would have had multiple effects: Blocking all UV light effectively while compressing our atmosphere. Today, professional athletes use modern technology to help repair their bodies quickly in hyper-baric chambers. Nutrition in the food was better and the DNA was purer. Too often we hear this happened so we could populate the Earth, or God allowed it to happen. While the latter is always a possibility, we must strive to understand how it could have happened, as Fr. Schmitz points out, WITHIN scripture.
Saying one portion of a book is poetic and the remainder is literal is a VERY dangerous assertion. It is very clear when there are allegorical and poetic instances, the Bible is either literally the Word from God or it is not- that is to say "Our interpretation". The Bible interprets US, not the other way!
Christians get lampooned because we run to the "God made it happen" when if we expect there to be a scientific explanation if we use our grey matter, just a little bit. NOTE- I am NOT dismissing miracles at all.
Less sickness
Catholics have a heckuva time distinguishing between literal and figurative
I think it is figuratively. The Tribes were scattered around with their families passing on the customs and beliefs of each Tribe. My son said that there was no sin and that is why people lived so long, then Adam and Eve committed the first sin. Each family hears about their ancestors from the living family members. With this way of thinking, my ancestors are "living" in my mind.
plain and simple, they live that long!!! but lowered down after the flood of noah
I wanna live that long, now
The calendar was different back then?
Their tracking of the annual cycle of the stars would have been close enough to ours to make that question moot. As soon as you have civilization, you know what a year is. It may not be precise, but it's not going to be off by a factor of 9 such that they would mistake 100 years for 900.
I think you are neglecting the differentiation from our world now and the world the way it was prior to the flood. That was a mass event. So many variables are being forgotten.
DNA, The topography of earth, etc.
No, but without television, radio, the internet, Netflix or even vaudeville it seemed like it. Is that a good answer?
Imagine what the flora and fauna was like pre flood. I wonder what a possible higher atmospheric oxygen level could do to the cells in a living creature?
Ahm, oxygen actually is one of the main culprits of again, because your cells oxidize... But ok
@@lavacaqueri5454 Wow you’re sooo SMART and your brain must be so BIG! I wonder when you walk around in the real world do people always tell you how much smarter you are then the average person? I bet they do. You must have so many friends and respect in your community. Your family must think you’re just an absolute pleasure to be around! How are you able to carry that massive head of yours along with balancing a giant EGO? Please continue to enlighten the world with RUclips commentary everyone is blessed and made better by your snarky yet edgy wit.
@@jiminycricket1593 it isn't that hard to understand
It’s not exactly exceptional, apparently the environment before the flood was way different including composition of air we breathe (scientifically proven!) The atmospheric pressure was higher, these two combined have serious influence on cells, tissues and body in general which has been used by modern medicine already (check out how football players heal their bodies in no time)
What about the idea that the numbers mean something? It's known that the Jews used numbers and their combos to convey a deeper meaning. 3 God, 5 man, 7 complete, 12 family of God, 40 a long time/complete (as in the end of a providential era). Etc.
Thus Moses' 40-40-40, could just mean he spent a "long time" in each part of his life - fulfilling God's will for each part. That would be conveying the deeper truth, which is far more important than the exact number of years the man was alive.
I have had this question in me for many yrs and for whatever reason just kept forgetting to research it until now. U guys have absolutely closed the door on this for me. Jesus rose from the dead it's called a miracle and if God can create the universe why can't someone be 900. Basically God is AWESOME! Sometimes unexplainable due to His awesomeness and sometimes you just have to check the "It is what it is" box and move on. I was mainly conflicted because I didn't know if time was calculated some kind of different way. Thank you for clearing this up for me.
Would you mind if I challenge your belief, as I have a problem with how the bible allows slavery while claiming to be moral.
@Joe-nz5ql "slavery of the Bible is not the same slavery that was used in north america, for example. Slaves in Biblical times were generally prisoners of war or in debt from my understanding"...
...Are you saying that YOU believe slavery is morally acceptable if the slave was poor or taken as a prisoner of war?
...To clarify, the Bible allowed its followers a guide explaining how to properly practicd chattel slavery in in a way that kept them in line with the will of God without EVER condemning the practice, so the question becomes...
Where in the version of the Bible you follow are you taught that it is forbidden to purchase a non-Hebrew and consider them inheritable property???
That priest is realllllly handsome 😻
Good video, but I think you confused the notions of "literal" and "spiritual sense" a bit. The literal sense is also broader, and includes different literary genres and styles. For example, the 3x40 years of Moses may be a standard Jewish/Semitic style of referring to significant time spans (without the intention of being exact). We see it many times: Israel's 40 years in the desert, Jesus' 40 days in the desert... With regard to age references in the early chapters of Genesis, it's a harder question of whether they had some similar way of referring to very long human life spans, or whether it was meant as a symbol for blessing etc. But my point is that this, too, is included in the "literal" sense in its traditional meaning (for example Aquinas). The modern idea of the literal sense should perhaps be called "literalist" instead.
If the Bible says they did, than they lived for 900 years. As man has become unfaithful over the centuries that life span became shorter.
Before the deluge/flood the earth was very conducive for longevity of life. Take the years literally.
Here are some reasons why people like Methuselah, who was 969 incidentally, lived a long time.
1. Man was created to live forever though he was not immortal. So after the fall he was then ordained to die. So the process of degeneration began with them.
2. Lack of diseases to begin with.
3. Climate conditions before the flood were more conducive to longevity. There was a possible water vapor canopy that surrounded the earth before the Flood of Noah. This canopy would have produced a worldwide greenhouse effect resulting in a mild climate throughout the earth. In addition, this canopy would shield man from harmful radiation which has an effect on the aging process. At the great Flood this canopy collapsed and no longer protected man and the animals.
There more be other reasons but they are more speculative such as their diet was more healthy.
The main thing is you pay a dangerous game when you pick and choose what to believe in the bible unless it is clearly talking in sign e.g. Revelation, or parable (Jesus's teachings). For example if we say when Adam and Eve didn't really exist then we are contradicting Jesus who clearly thought they did when He said that His Father made them male and female (Mark 10:6). And denying creation is effectively denying the Holy Spirit power of God.
Stuart, great post and rare in that it rationally adds to the discussion with strong logic, and doesn’t cry from on high like so many other one has to wade through (of which I’ve been very guilty of many times sadly)
Your last point is so incredibly profound and I hear virtually no clergy, commentator etc discuss the issue of NT references to Genesis in a way they implies they are not simply quoting what they thought to be myths but literal events
The theology is there in principle certainly post First Vatican , but seems to have been watered down, ignored or certainly de-emphasised by some of the greatest Catholic minds today.
Mind blowing when one considers, as you have so astutely and succinctly noted that there is direct verification of Genesis to be in at least part way, literal.
I’m not inferring anything other than what morsels are in the Gospel, but I’m confused as to why there isn’t more of a discussion about it.
And if you’ll excuse a slight sidetrack, I find also dismissing the genealogy and age references as myth, do we also potentially miss the opportunity to discuss the age of humanity itself.
I’ve often said that these are potentially not salvation clinchers, BUT i find that the power of my faith lays, to a not insignificant amount, in the authority of scripture which we can discern through reason as well
Just supposing that (and I think one can suspend modern context when intellectually exploring) and it’s a huge supposing, the earth was created in six days, all from the word of God and that humanity is indeed approx 6000years old. As a rational Christian who has taught philosophy at university, who has conducted theoretical research based on a rigour of lucid argument itself based on preceding texts and thought, I find the idea both profound, completely rational as well as exciting. It makes the most sense
Apologies, just meant to be a nod to your post, but there is something in the way you’ve shown ‘Jesus approached theology’ as how it might be applied to what modern person assumes is myth is truly exciting
Scripture tells us that Moses lost none of his strength up till death, but what about the folks who lived till 800, were the last two hundred or so lived in old age suffering?! 😱
Could it be the House of...so we refer all the time historically to a house of someone. The house of moses spent 40 years in, 40 years in desert, 40 years as leader etc.
This is ridiculous!
If He created the worlds of men and of spirits, and rose from the dead, and promises us eternal life, then you think he'd have a hard time giving men such length of days?!
I'm disgusted that these guys find the question embarrassing!
Most probably explained in the whole descendant line , they all came from descendants .God believes in Eternal life .
Father do you sleep? Your wonderful
If the bible says it happened, then it did, just as in scripture.
I don't understand how father Mike can say that theories and interpretations can never contradict the Bible, then read in the Bible that Methuselah lived to 969 years.... And then say that there's a chance he didn't actually live that long????
The people of the bible did live to those ages. You will notice that after the flood the length of age started dropping off significantly. A theory is that there was much more water held in the atmosphere which blocked more radiation from the sun enabling people to live longer. After the flood more radiation passes through the human body causing aging and destruction of the DNA shortening the human lifespan.
Yes, the earliest humans did in fact live for centuries. However, God changed the max years of life span. Please, please read the Bible! Genesis 6:3
3Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide ina man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years
I seriously can't believe any of this. I'm not convinced at all. I was raised catholic.
So people believe that Christ rose from the dead but don’t believe pre flood people didn’t live to hundreds of years old. The earth was different and God shortened our life spans multiple times. The last time being 3 score and 10 which is 70
Years. Which is our average live span. God says anything beyond that is by strength. It is literal.
But believe pre flood people ***
Where in the Bible does it say this?
@@michaels1527 read Genesis.
interesting
in islam adam lives 960 years and noah 950 years and as time went on somehow the lifetime of people shrunk along with their actual size. i wonder if its due to more then just our physical body and atmosphere but how much faster we experience time.
Got a question what if every 12 months for each month is a year of your birthday they say people live 900 years old what is 75 Times 12 is 900 years old What if we are just wrong about everything I do not want to change anyone’s faith but I do believe in God differently what is the calendar we look at today compared to the calendar that we say we know is wrong because we forgot it’s just like other cultures believing that the day of birth is the birth of a child birthday just saying ?
When we pray the Creed we say we believe in life everlasting so why is there any conflict in believing the Bible literally? If it is everlasting after death then there is no reason it could have been much longer before mankind’s fall from Grace with God?
If we assume that God intended for us to live forever, which we would apart from the curse from sin, then 900 years really isn't very long. God made Adam and Eve perfect, without sin and designed to live forever, then sin and death come in, and after hundreds of years, they die. Adam and Eve would have had perfect genes, without any mutations or flaws. This could lend itself to their longevity. As time wore on, and the curse continued to weigh on us, mutations occurred which reduced our lifespan, and when the flood happened, only Noah and his family survived. This is a genetic bottleneck and would have meant any damaging mutations in Noah's line were more likely to show up, rather than be covered by better genes. This means any mutations reducing lifespan could not be overcome by other genes granting longer life, so our lifespans were greatly shortened.
If they only lived few decades like we do now, testimonies of the old times and creation would have been diluted and lost ,The creator ensured that Adam still was around to testify to Methuselah and Methuselah Noah ,Shem ,Ham and Japeth who testified to Abraham, so that the believing would believe.
Actually yes. There was in the scripture that God said he lessen the life of human. I just forget which verse was it. If he lessen the life span of human it means that their life before are much longer than ours now.
Even if they lived longer, why would we accept the bible as a moral guide when it allows its followers to commit immoral acts without ever condeming the practice.