Isn't Christ the Only Mediator between God and Man?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2015
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Isn't Christ the only mediator between God and man? Trent Horn answers a caller on Catholic Answers Live who objects to the Catholic practice of praying to saints.
After his conversion to the Catholic faith, Trent Horn pursued an undergraduate degree in history from Arizona State University. He then earned a graduate degree in theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville and is currently pursuing a graduate degree in philosophy from Holy Apostles College.
Trent is a regular guest on the radio program Catholic Answers Live, a lecturer who speaks across the country on issues related to the Catholic faith, and the author of two books, Answering Atheism and Persuasive Pro-life, both of which are published by Catholic Answers Press.
If you are interested in booking Trent Horn for an upcoming event, please contact Catholic Answers at (619) 387-7200
it's really really WONDERFUL to see my fellow catholics who are experts with quoting the scriptures. Don't we all know that Protestants are so well trained in doing so.....well its time for us catholics to be motivated by these gentlemen to read our bibles more often and quote scriptures to defend our faith
poor Trent.so patient.God bless that guy....peace Trent!
I love how Patrick and Trent handled this call, true humility and charity.
Sounds like everyone of my Pentecostal family members. Every time I answer these questions it's like talking to a rock, a special kind of rock
Joshua19 looooooolololol!!
Thank you for the answers from scripture to this and many other questions i have been a catholic for only 6 months now and i used to be a bit like this guy
mainly because in protestant churches we are told how bad the catholic faith is but since attending and being baptised in the faith i find new truths and excitement as well as the scriptures come alive to me and have more meaning thank you keep it up
That very uncomfortable feeling of cognitive dissonance. It's the major reason I left Protestantism.
Succinct and poignant! Welcome, fellow christian! You should tell us more about your transformation.
norma munoz Not much to say really. I was pretty fundamental/sola scriptura but kept running into issues and contradictions. Started studying the early church and they had thorough answers to every question I had. Ten years later I became Orthodox. You have to be intellectually dishonest to be educated in regards to church history and remain Protestant.
I am still sitting here with my mouth hanging open absolutely amazed... beautiful guys just beautiful.
A lot of Protestants I know are very disrespectful and/or on edge. Much like this guy.
and you know confessing to a Priest can also be really helpful - in that they often have excellent advice of how to go forward (as well as prayer). Like having my own affordable (free) therapist!
How did they stay so patient ? If it was me, I would have been yelling when he called Catholics necromancers
I feel the caller may have got something out of that exchange.
Not even death can separate us from the love of God. Bingo!!
Love you guys. Keep it up. Many are benefitting from your service of love
There is one body of Christ. Death does not separate us from Him. He is the God of the living, not the dead. It is not nacromensy to ask the triumphant saints to pray for us because they are not dead, they like our guardian angels behold God's face ..this is according to Jesus when he says" be careful not to despise these for their angels behold the face of God" . Saints are considered among the living , although they may have physically died. Moses (physically died) and Elijah (assumed body and soul into heaven) appeared to Jesus on the mount.Moses had been dead for centuries yet he was standing in front of Jesus and talking to Him about what is to happen. Peter saw all 3 of them. Saints are alive, more so because they are tuned into the perfect Will of God wearing the crown of salvation. We know saints do glorify God in heaven, but we also know they continue to pray. Revelation 6:10 "I saw underneath the altar* the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God.10They cried out in a loud voice, “How long will it be, holy and true master,* before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” Therefore we know they are concerned with earthly matters. just Like how we ask one another on earth to pray for us as mediator to God for our intentions we can ask our heavenly family the saints and angels to pray for us too. This kind of prayer mediator I speak of is different than the redeeming mediator that Jesus Christ is alone to the Father who redeems us through His sacrifice on the Cross. We must learn to differentiate the two to understand.
Good job Trent and Patrick! I love Catholic Answers!
Great information !
These brothers were so kind and patient.
the caller seemed a little hostile, and very headstrong about his non-admitted Protestant faith, but by the end of the call, he seemed to be a little more calm and possibly got him thinking about the truth of what the gentlemen were speaking of. hopefully he went away with a little more knowledge about the Angels and Saints who are a true part of the body of Christ.
Hopefully that Protestant caller thought about this exchange afterward.
I think the Holy Spirit was at work there. The tone of his voice totally changed by the end of the interview
That was very well explained.
LOVE THESE ARGUMENTS.
This caller isn't genuine. In the beginning he was asked if he was a protestant and he said he insisted that he was a Christian but then when he was explaining his position on the one mediator he says "us protestants". He lost me there.
Very good explanation.
"There is one mediator between God and man." The Greek word for "one" is 'heis' which means "one and the same mediator for all." If Paul meant that Christ is the one and only mediator in the economy of salvation, he would have used the Greek word "monos". Protestants ignore the four verses leading up to verse 5, and verse 6 which explains how it is that Jesus alone is the one and the same mediator for all of mankind, having ransomed us from sin and death and reconciling the world to God with his own blood.
Alex Lielbardis So you don't ask others to pray for you? That is mediating for you, and Paul asks people to pray for him and others; so is Paul wrong to ask for prayers? Think about it.
We don't ask dead people to pray for us, the people in Heaven are alive, probably more alive than we are. You need to read your Bible again, there's a lot you missed. But being the typical Protestant you can't be bothered with reading the whole thing, just your favorite parts.
I think I have a solid argument for why praying to saints is okay, and here's why:
When we ask for others to pray for us, they in turn become a mediator for us to Christ. That cannot be argued, it's simply intrinsic to the concept.
And in the New Testament, we see in Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord."
This points to the fact that all who believe in Christ and repent do NOT die, but are still alive, with Him.
So, in the same sense that you ask those to pray for you on earth, you can also do the same for the saints in Heaven, since they fit the requirement from scripture as stated above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, you may say that we are only supposed to pray to God, that it is a right reserved to Him alone. And this, of course, is true. However, there's more than one type of prayer.
There's a difference between adoration and intercession. Adoration is reserved to God, while intercession can be for saints
God bless you guys at Catholic Answers. Awesome job teaching the Gentiles and heretics. Listening to this so called Christians tone I could only think of one verse. Love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you. We Catholics seem to be persecuted by Protestants all the time and I think I now understand why.
The Catholic Church has the Pope as its guide on earth which equates to authority. The western mindset is that all people are equal and as such hate the thought of an authority they have to follow in some far away country. Yet they do not realise that they are the youngest form of Christianity and need to question seriously their understanding of the Greek within a Greek Hebrew context not through the lense of 20th century English/American mindset.
I come from a church that has its roots firmly in the soil of Jesus Christ where as Protestants seemingly are from a branch somewhere up top of the tree that has grow too far away from the main tree.
We can only pray for them and as the example you have shown today dialogue with love and reason and be prepared to given an answer for the hope we have within us.
I smell a new convert :-)
see you at mass, David
Punk Rock Pete I converted and it's the best decision I ever made! I use to be a member of a United church but never felt at home until I chose to become Catholic. Since then Christ is closer to me than ever before
B DON PLAYZ convert here too. raised evangelical turned Agnostic and now a baby catholic ☺
How can Protestants believe that those who died and are in Heaven are DEAD?
So there is no eternal life?
So why pick up your cross and follow Christ, and take the precious blood and body of Christ if you end up DEAD?
Protestants are odd.
Clearly this man doesn’t read his Bible with an open heart. He is denying Christ’s authority.
Although you had many other callers on wait
David caller should've been given more time
since he's got many very important valid points according to his believes that needed to be dismantle and corrected. I was left very hungry to hear more about this from T. Horn
and it could help many catholics and non-Catholic to see WHY we need of our Church.
;)
.
*sigh* It's so sad to see how hateful some Protestants are towards Catholics,.
+Heather Nolan I don't think he was hateful, just very passionate, and very convinced that he is right. It could come off as hate, but I see this a lot and I don't think it is hate.
I'm not
+Heather Nolan I know...
The history told otherwise. Catholics inquisition has killed over 50 million Christians.
iman lam That comment is pure ignorance and you should feel ashamed for espousing such an ignorant, uniformed view.
Caller sounds like the actor Billy Bob Thornton.
jim foley lol
Awesome answer.
King James Bible
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I still don't see why you would want to pray and talk to the dead.
Regardless of what they say we only need to go to God and Jesus and no one else on this world or the next to ask for forgiveness or for anything else.
Catholic Apologetics vs Christian slogans from single verses. "God can do anything", but can't give His Apostles the authority to forgive sins when He says those exact words? That's why I couldn't be Protestant, for the sake of intellectually honesty. There are too many ambiguities in a worldview which ignores context and makes my feelings about things the ultimate authority. I suppose a question I would ask is which bible is "the bible that [he] reads"?
Please answer my question so if we don't confess to a priest our sins are retained is that right? why does the bible say confess your sins to one another.......and a priest said we are all priest by the scriptures ...would set me free from confusion if you could please answer me would appreciate lindax
Just told my Pops that thanks to being born 40 years into Pentecostalism, my reward in heaven is going to be like that 1990s' yellow paper Burger King Crown of Life
🤦🏻♂️
How do I contact you guys?
Our contact information is at catholic.com!
I feel as though the caller's point about "two or more" being gathered was overlooked. This is the reason why we pray for others and ask the same to pray for our own needs.
I don't think a case can be made, Scripturally, for intercession of sin apart from Messiah.
+Christopher Lee " 1 Tim. 2:1-4: "I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people- 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."
unless they were physically together, each praying for the other, they were not 2 gathered in His name...
Catholic Answers, what exactly is necromancy, I've never fully understood that concept.
Think seance, when someone summons spirits to pump them for info. Going to fortune tellers,etc. These are forms of necromancy.
Also, remember that the saints (faithful followers of Christ) are not dead, because Jesus said his followers will never die.
+* * The word "necromancy" is literally translated to mean "black magic". We as Catholics understand it as the practice of envocing or speaking with the dead, which is mortally sinful. The distinction that I think Trent was trying to make is that we are not "speaking with the dead" when we are communicating with Saints, because if they are in Heaven, they are alive.
Sean Noll thats an interesting dichotomy, but it does make a lot of sense, thx.
Necro is also the word for dead in I forgot which language, Greek maybe. And mancy either magic/summon. It is summoning the dead and that is usually done through demonic forces you allow to bring in. Talking to them through demonic conjuring violates the first commandment of having these spirits lead and talk to us rather than take God's word.
+Sean Noll But there is also a teaching that the soul of men is immortal. How is that to be understood if God tells Adam and Eve if they will eat from the forbidden fruit they will surely die.
What kind of death is that? Dead but still not really dead? The immortal soul idea isn't supported in the Bible.
I quote:
Ecclesiastes: 9. 5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Dude had chip on his shoulder. Then tap danced when pressed.
John 20:22 - Since the deciples did not actually receive the Holy Spirit until the day of Penticost, some 40 days in the future, (Acts 1:8;2:1-3), this statementmust be understood as a pledge on Christ's part that the Holy Spirit would be coming.
The truth to the matter is... God himself will hear your prayers, he will see your sins. If you ask for forgiveness for your sins why go anywhere else. There is an old saying... Cut the middle man. God is there for all of us. He does not need a manager or secretary or put us on hold. If you sin God knows it. If you wish to confess your sin... He know that too. He just wants too hear you confess it. If the Catholic church is closed do you need business hours to speak to God?
great
So sad the caller has been lured into the heresy of Protestantism and he cannot see how illogical his position is.
A more simple answer to 1 Timothy 2:6, using only the Bible.
1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is * one God, and one ** mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus”
* John 17:3, “Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
** Hebrews 9:15, And for this cause Christ Jesus is the mediator of the new Testament: that death being a means, unto the redemption of these prevarications which were under the former testament, they that are called may receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
** Galatians 3:19-20, “But God gave it to Abraham by promise. Why was the Law then? It was put for transgressions, until the Seed came to Whom he had promised: ordained by Angels in the hand of a mediator (Moses). And a mediator is not of one: but God is one.”
Paul is not talking about Christ mediating our prayers, but of a new covenant, which to put it shortly, is eternal life through the blood of Jesus Christ.
It’s a chapter that needs to be examined in full, not just one verse. At minimum paragraph by paragraph.
1 Timothy 2:1-7
Great site but it consumed data, I believes we all appreciate d answers given & practice what we know & learn.
Yes. (1 Timothy 2:5)😎
The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help - instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.
The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."
First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?
Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination-activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.
God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).
7:47 Mic drop...Amen
Muslims always ask each other to pray for each other ! Peace
Just because one may or may not see us from heaven does not justify our prayers to or through them. Pray only to God. That is the highest form of worship. Jesus is Lord and never rebukes worship.
BlazingLove316 So you don't ask others to pray for you? That is mediating for you, and Paul asks people to pray for him and others; so is Paul wrong to ask for prayers? Think about it.
irony. he says he's a forgiving guy. but that tone and the attitude?? i dont think so lol. sorry if i am judgemental :)
I'm far from being a Biblical Scholar, but I have said for years that, if our loved ones in Heaven get any news about what we are up to in this life, that news would have to be heavily censored in order for them to be happy.
There are a number of false dilemmas here. First the transfiguration no one prayed to Moses or Elijah. They were literally present and a conversation took place. Trent obviously doesn't understand what death is. Death is a separation in this life between our bodies and our spirit. When we are dead, the body is lifeless and the spirit is somewhere else. The second death is the spirit in hell, separated from God. So that point was simply wrong on their part. Scripture says pray to God. Nowhere does it say to pray TO anyone else.
I don't see why Catholics don't understand the Protestant mind
we're told the Bible is God speaking , they're His Words.
plus in every book of the new testament there are warnings about false teachers
teachings that are doctrines of man not commandments of God.
so when the born again believer reads his or her Bible and sees teachings that are found no where in the Bible or have to be teased and twisted from vague scriptures being taught by Rome they get suspicious and they should., it's normal and actually God's will for us to test teachings that aren't explicitly taught in scripture. this praying to all these people who have died is exactly the example. how does anyone know if someone is in heaven anyway, the point to the matter is no one does know.
k, how should we pray Lord ? wouldn't it be nice if Jesus Himself taught us? would that settle it ? would that convince any Catholics of thier error ?
Luke 11:1-2 ASV
And it came to pass, as he was praying in a certain place, that when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, even as John also taught his disciples. [2] And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Father,
is that not clear enough ? i can hear the response now, he didn't say " pray only to the Father ", he talked to Moses on the mountain ? I'd rather just see catholics admit it's not scriptural and in their communion it doesn't have to be anyway. that would be better than shoehorning traditions into Gods Word
when you pray say Father
I was semi with you up until your interpretation of what it meant that Jesus was the Son of Man/the justification you then pull from that interpretation to pray to dead saints.
Caesar Santizo Are those in Heaven alive or dead? The Bible tells us that they are alive, and not only are they alive, they are aware of what is happening on earth and can pray for them. See Luke 15:7 --
Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. †
Luke 15 doesn't say who is rejoicing. How does this mean that people from earth are rejoicing in heaven?
we go to Jesus directly, why asking other people to pray for you too? because of what Jesus said in Matt18:19-20
If the dead are alive and in heaven why do we believe in the resurrection of the dead? Isn't this strange? There wouldn't be any need for a resurrection...
this guy can't be real
Patrick needs to let Trent talk.
So if we commune with the deceased is it only a sin if they answer ? Seems like a path best to be avoided to me.
David, from Garland Texas, Yes it is true that we Christians must forgive our Brother who sin against us.
However, not the Church Hierarchy can RETAIN SINS, we Christian laity can't retain sins we must forgive.
John 20: 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall RETAIN, they are RETAINED. (ONLY the Priest through Jesus can retain sins.
Confessing to a priest will not be a sin. Telling someone to pray to Mary instead of God for sins to be forgiven, THAT is sin.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Exodus 20:3-5
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
Is God lying then that I have to pray to Mary for penance, petition, salvation, etc?
Where in the bible does it say we can bow to the man made idols and to talk to them?
The reason it was said since was to avoid the simplest form of idolatry.
Show me an image of God in the bible and you convince me
Jesus is the only mediator between man and God, you do not need to confess to a priest. That's correct and truth. He has made atonement for sins once and for all. We do not need dead people or priest as intercessor. The caller is right no need to argue. There is only one truth and one interpretation in the Holy Spirit.
Joseph Ho So you don't ask others to pray for you? That is mediating for you, and Paul asks people to pray for him and others; so is Paul wrong to ask for prayers? Think about it.
As for dead people, the Bible teachs that those in Heaven are alive, and Luke 15:7 proves that they are aware of what is happening on earth.
Let's not twist the Holy Bible. Christ is the ONLY mediator to God the Father. Saint dead or alive aren't.
Vintage Wind So you don't ask others to pray for you? That is mediating for you, and Paul asks people to pray for him and others; so is Paul wrong to ask for prayers? Think about it.
Jesus spoke on the mountain with a risen prophet who was Elija and to a ressurected one who was Moses...
Moses died on the mountain but Jesus ressurected him. Jesus spoke to a ressurected Moses not to a dead one.
Here is the Bible Text:
Jude: 1. 9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
David is pretty full of hate to be a "Christian"
I'm a Christian...... ok you Catholic or orthodox, nope...... ok your protestant. lol some people lack basic logic.
jesus never prayed to moses. he spoke to him face to face.... if you wanna imitate that then ask god to send moses down....