Ditto, not a dime from me ever again. Not supporting them means exactly that regardless of their "IP" as I stated in an earlier video posted on this channel.
Have zero doubt, Gygax was just a stand in punching bag for all the older players that have been with the hobby for years. They really meant you and me in that piece; it's implied in the subtext. My group walked away from WotC with dignity. They own a trademark, not the hobby. I'm glad WotC dislikes us because I've seen what they cheer for.
At the risk of saying I told you so, I warned you about this when they announced that they were doing Greyhawk. I said it's never good when a multinational corporation turns its greedy eye to your favorite piece of art and starts to "mine" (wotc’s words not mine). Edit - all that said it’s not your fault and I’ll keep supporting you.
As long as Wizbro continues to be arse, it just makes things so hard and frustrating. Fans deserve so much better. But, at least we have you and all you've been doing for Greyhawk. And that's still great.
I appreciate your candor and mature approach to the situation. I think it is telling that your love of the setting outweighs your negative feelings for another force. That's an entirely positive thing.
"They don't own Greyhawk." Well said, as usual. It's a tough situation all around. And as I said before in regards to your DM's Guild "controversy," sometimes the hero has to travel into the belly of the beast to continue the quest.
Hey Joe- I don’t find your position hypocritical at all. You keep doing your thing. I appreciate your efforts to keep Greyhawk alive, especially in the vein of AD&D 1E. Thank you!
Love how hes like . People are calling me a hypocrite. I think their wrong. Proceeds to explain why calmly and like a gentleman. Is respectful even to those who he disagrees with, see folk thats how ya do it. A man of culture
I'll never understand how Wizards can be so slimy as to besmirch someone's name while profiting off the same person's creations. It seems like a real nest of vipers there- if they talk that way about the people that created one of their most profitable products/IPs, imagine how they talk about an employee that's not in lockstep or someone that quits to work elsewhere. It's a small and petty way to run a business and view the world as a whole. Customer loyalty is a very difficult thing to earn back, and that's doubly so if the customer was an enthusiastic supporter before. Especially when there are so many other places we can go for a game system.
I wholeheartedly agree with your stance on WotC. Thank you for keeping Greyhawk alive and well. That world will always have a special place in my heart as that is where I first started adventuring all those years ago.
Sorcerers rule, Wizards drool! 🤪 I kid, I kid… I've got physical copies of _The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer,_ _The Scarlet Brotherhood,_ _Tales from the Yawning Portal,_ and _Ghosts of Saltmarsh_ (the last in English _and _ German!). Similarly, I've plenty of digital copies of all sorts of books, magazines, adventures, &c. I'm set for life on the _Greyhawk_ front; I enjoy 5e - for the most part - but I've no desire to "upgrade" (though I still prefer 3e and would love to play a 1e/2e campaign some day).
Keep up the good work, I played D&D back in the 80s and 90s, got back into it in 2019. It's a shame how WOTC has been so toxic, I hope you continue with your content, I appreciate it
Thank you for your work with Greyhawk. I make the argument that if you're having fun with your friends around the table, you're doing it right. I haven't liked an edition since 1st but played several. Keeping the old worlds alive is very important as the current IP holders are intent on wiping us out. I feel you on the Drivethru paradox. I want to replace my older books but I can't afford most of the prices. I do what I must. When it came to the anniversary book, I waited for a used copy to show up on Amazon, and I finally found one. The history alone is worth it
Hating on the existing customer base has been the marketing strategy of many entertainment industries for years now! Whether tabletop games, video games, movies, tv shows, it's the same script and has been for a long, long time now. It's bizarre that anybody ever convinced these companies it was the right way to go, but somehow they did. *boggle*
I am not listen to WotC anymore, I am listening to your chanel. Last year, my group went from 5e to 3.5e - still WotC, but they don't get any money from me and 3.5e is a great ruleset for Greyhawk. Greyhawk has a live of its own, as you said, and is in our hearts and minds.
I played Greyhawk as kid. 1st ed AD&D. It was good. Gary wrote well. WotC are pigs in my opinion. I don't play 5th, took 4th book to the RPG shop I got it from and traded it in for Castles & Crusades. Wizards of the Woke need a safe space. I prefer BRP and D00lite in reality but C&C is a love of mine for sure. Greyhawk is great. I was my first and favourite fantasy setting.
I was thinking of Star Blazers, the Comet Empire, at the very end, Comet Empire is blasting the F out of Earth, Argo is blowing up and being evacuated, Wildstar is carrying the wounded Sandor on his back to the escape ship, Sandor says "don't give up. As long as WE live, Earth lives". Kinda feel that way with WotC being like the evil Comet Empire. "As long as WE live, Greyhawk lives!". Sorry to be dramatic.
I asked you a while back if you were going to critic that book. I'm glad I waited for your opinion.....saved me $100! Thank you!!! And you are no hypocrite. I mean we all have to decide what we will do and what we wont do. I was like "NO...I refuse to buy that Beholder, and that Displacer Beast....oh and definitely not buying that Gelatinous cube action figure! Oh really they made a Owlbear action figure?" And then I bought it all. I'm the hypocrite! *Plays with my Owlbear*
Don't feel bad about doing the WoTC thing. It's such a non factor in the scheme of things. The game was altered beyond hope a long time ago and we're not gonna fix it so we need to do what we can to capture the new eyes. Good for you and thanks for your efforts.
At first I thought this video would be about Greyhawk being low-magic lol. Anyways, my upcoming Greyhawk campaign will be teaching some folks (incl. kids) in my neighborhood D&D, and I'll be using all three of your DM's Guild books! I'll use some of what's in the 2024 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, but will be significantly limiting races and classes - no Aasimir, Tieflings, or Goliaths, and there will be half-Elves and half-Orcs. No (or very few) Sorcerers and Warlocks. And no fricking Lawful Good orcs. In fact, the Orcs will be villains from the Pomarj raiding the PC's village, to start them off. Keep it up, GG!
The thing about IPs is, you kind of have to be an evil money-sucking corporation to have enough cash to buy one once the creator sells/is forced out/dies. And dealing with your beloved properties being owned by people unworthy of doing so, and yet continuing on with your fandom is quickly becoming an essential skill in this world.
"They own the IP. They do not own Greyhawk" is a great mindset. We, as a society, should be focused on the stories, all the great old material, and our own stories than on the "official" products. I think this is true for D&D in general. .
Personally, I think that you writing for DM's Guild is 100% a positive move. It gives new players who are curious new material to build on to inspire them. Then you can let them fly.
I just want to give a shout out and say I'm your exact target audience. I've only been playing since 2019 so 5e and Forgotten Realms is all I've known. I've heard of Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, etc but never got into lore. The new DMG got me interested in Greyhawk. For research I found this and other channels like 3orcs to be extremely helpful and instead of buying the DMG I would much rather buy your books instead. Thank you very much
@greyhawkgrognard, Do you have a timeline for when you can get your books done in print on demand? 😊 ❤️? Been playing Dungeons and Dragons since 1987/88, so I managed to get my hands on products that that where 1st edition AD&D at my then new found hobby store, but I have played crossover from 1st/2nd edition and every edition bar 4th (although there are some good products there and I have even borrowed stuff from it). I am quite neutral about being a "gatekeeper", as long the product is good in my eyes, I buy it, whomever sells it, I don't mind. A good discussion with respect to everyone participating, I think that this drives the hobby forwards in a good way. Everything put aside I love both the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms settings, they have their own flair and I really like that. Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much for keeping Greyhawk alive despite all the misbehavior from people who have orders of magnitude more power, money, and influence than you. I especially appreciate your channel because of the dearth of viable campaign setting materials that came out with 5e. Do you have any thoughts about making videos that connect recently made OSR adventures to places within Greyhawk?
Love Greyhawk; Hate WotC. Simple solution: Play Pathfinder. My groups play Pathfinder in Paizo's awesome campaign setting AND in Greyhawk. (And Ravenloft. And Planescape. And even G I Joe, and Star Trek, and etc.)
Dungeon Crawl Classics preserves the soul of AD&D. Even in the way the books are not always reprinted. I remember my hunt tracking down the earliest printings of AD&D books that I could find; DCC feels that way.
Greyhawk, and AD&D, belong to those of us who have played and supported it since last millennium. It's like when the powers that be take a beloved IP and change it beyond recognition. Those things do NOT affect me, because they DO NOT exist in my world. I have not supported, nor will I ever support the Evil Red Wizards of the Coast and their twisted, revisionist, perverted view of any of the creators of Dungeons and Dragons, and original Dungeons and Dragons. You keep on doing what you do to introduce new people to our hobby. We'll survive, while they will wander off into the wilderness, and be remembered only as an aberration. And yes, maybe Elon WILL buy the IP, and turn it over to those who love it, cherish it, and want to preserve it. Thank you for all you do!
@@jimjim292 Thank you so much, Grammar Policeman. I guess you were unable to understand that those words that were all caps were NOT random. Oh, and I'm so sorry, but by sarcasm font isn't working at this time. Also, I believe that the great majority of people who read that post, or ones like it, would understand that using all caps is the generally accepted manner of showing words that would have been emphasized in a verbal conversation. For example, "I hope YOU understand" has a different emphasis than "I HOPE you understand."
I’ve gone about recollecting my old TSR setting boxes, as any “attempt” to reproduce them has been egregiously disparaging and condescending to fans of the source. I’m currently running 2nd Edition era Forgotten Realms with Savage Worlds in one campaign, and 2nd edition Dragonlance with BECMI in another. TSR era gave us all the material that we will ever need to tell our own stories in much better developed settings than anything WOTC is capable of. I have the From the Ashes box and will eventually explore Greyhawk again, but it won’t be anything WOTC does. Keep evangelizing the setting, you bringing eyeballs to the content is indeed worth the money WOTC is earning off of your stuff in my opinion.
People like Joe seizing the cultural territory of Greyhawk to manage what it becomes is a necessary move for the future of the setting. Is the biggest, most powerful voice telling future gamers what Greyhawk is WotC's (who will likely ruin it) or the gamers who love it? Holding territory comes at a cost, but it must be done.
You buy Wizard of the Coast products you support them. You want to help Greyhawk and Role-Playing as a whole you minimize your purchases of their products ( I bought PDFs of the first two versions of Greyhawk from DriveThru long ago, When Wizard and 4e were just stupid). Wizards gets away from Hasbro then I will re-assess until then not another dime goes to any Wizard's owned material.
You are doing the St. Cuthbert & Zagig's. Let no dark Wizard of insipid strand sway you! And what is a few measly 20%, for some of us of Sea Princes sail those shores for many a'booty of olden time! Yar har!
Hey Joe, one day I might check these out - I’m sure they are very well done judging by your other work but I don’t have any interest in buying 5E products. I’m gonna assume (I don’t keep up with this stuff) that you can’t do it for ADD (hence greyheim) and that’s too bad. I have no problems buying from WotC if they allowed GH for 1E/ADD (yours I mean) but until then, they only get cash from older PDFs I buy on DTRPG. I used to buy some 5E stuff regularly on sale to support Fantasy Grounds but now I do it with SaWo and C&C instead.
I get your position, but if one were feeling vindictive, one might point out that their 20% cut is probably a good bit more than if you bought their books...
Did Wizards of the Coast actually write and publish Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons ? I thought it was a licensed product written by another company. However, WotC still gave the thumbs up to the book, and if it strongly disagreed with what was written about the co-founders, or at least felt it could be toned down, they could have withdrawn the license.
Publish, yes. Write, no. Jon Peterson is credited for curation and commentary on all the historical documents included in the book. He's an independent writer-historian, not a WotC employee. That said, he still needed their permission for all that scanned material to appear alongside his commentary.
I gotta admit I'm a little on the fence with this one. Yes I agree with you about WOTWC shinnagins. But there is nothing wrong with modernized version of Grayhawk for the newer generation of 5e players. And yes nothing wrong with helping those who truly want to know more about the History of Grayhawk and all it splinder. I'm an old school 1 and 2e player from early to late 80s and I absolutely love Grayhawk. All my campaines take place in Grayhawk and will continue to do so. But it kinda sounds like you gotta chip on your shoulder that WOTWC introduced a slightly different Grayhawk that you and I grew up loving so much. However sometimes change is inevitable and today's players aren't like you and I. And WOTWC adjust accordingly to new Gen of players not us old timers. It's a painful reality that I accepted and when I did any frustrations or grievence I had with WOTC went out the window concerning Grayhawk. Thier like it and use, or don't like it and let it be already. It's evident in you deminure you have a chip on your shoulder about this subject. Lost a little respect for you but I Will continue to subscribe and listen to what you have to share. But now it's a little more grain of salt in my listening to you
It's a constant conundrum these days. Love D&D but hate WOTC. Love Warhammer but despise Games Workshop. Love(d) Star Wars and Marvel, hate Disney. On and on it goes, and I don't really have a satisfactory answer. It pains me, and I don't know how it will all end.
Well, Hasbro seem to follow Lucasfilm's/Disney lead. As far as I am concerned though after I look at the Monster Manual (I doubt the likes of the Greyhawk Dragon will be included( that's it. I have the 2014 supplements, and the DM Guild is fine, more creative than the narrow minds behind Hasbro/WoTC.
Elon Musk has said on Twitter he is interested in buying Hasbro. He was very upset at how they treated Gary. It looks like my 7th level miracle is working. Stay tuned.
I have your back but I have no idea what Wizards did this go round. I'm not a full time DnD RUclips junkie yet so I'm out of the loop .good segment but maybe you or someone could spend five seconds and catch the rest of us up to speed on what exactly wizards said and did? Can someone on this thread explain what Joe's mad about please?
I don't watch many other talking heads ..Soo...my guess from the other comments is Wizards did a history book on DnD and said bad things about Gary and Dave? Can someone expand on that? What did Hasbrohemes actually say? Info please.
Ok I found a professor DM episode and caught up. Wizards short-shit Gary and Dave? Well of course they did it's what they do. Also they want to break away from the old school and claim Greyhawk as their own. Musk's comments were OK but he should have mentioned Dave by name too. Dave wasn't just one of the other geniuses...Dave was co-creator and the critical lynchpin for the DnD rule formation. Gary took Dave's ideas and expanded. But they are both Giants and Musk should have mentioned him. Other than that....hmmm...musks comments help stimulate the market overall and stir the pot. Interesting to see how this all effects stocks and revenue.
Just imagine if WoTC said, "we can't wait for black guys to leave the hobby". Then, you tell your black friend that you are going to keep playing 5e because "you have to separate the product from the artist". They probably wouldn't stand for that because they have more respect for themselves and their race ( other friends and family ) than that. And they're right to.
God bless Elon Musk and God keep Gary Gygax, whose jockstrap no-one at WOTC is fit to carry. Gary was a genius. The current DEI-focused regime at WOTC cannot create, only destroy, like all evil.
I don't think the dead are sacred, but Gygax did nothing wrong. Progs living in large coastal cities tend to believe, that all of America and even rural Europe is like their environment. This is the same reason they believe, that there was an ill intention for exclusion in early, Eurocentric D&D, when your country was overwhelmingly European-American. D&D was getting more diverse per year, with Arabic, African, Asiatic and Mesoamerican locations added to its worlds, but it was never enough for certain people, and these supplements are considered problematic now, because they were written by White people, who supposedly cannot do research. Women weren't excluded either, that is an outright lie. They were there from the very start, typing, playtesting, watering the office plants, whatever. But many of them aren't interested in complicated games like D&D. The only chicks, who played before Vampire came out were tomboys and chicks obsessed with Tolkien. I sort of remember the looks I got just for reading fantasy novels. It only changed after the LOTR Trilogy and GoT took the world by storm and the genre was suddenly in.
I love Greyhawk. Fullstop. That's all, I don't hate wotc, they are a game studio. I don't hate Hasbro. They are a company. I do not hate those who create or play New D&D. I do not have strong negative emotions about that, and why should I have them. I am disappointed and frustrated. About wotc, but also about what Gary Gygax said. Or has done to Dave Arneson. Do I hate Gary Gygax for that? No. I play that game for over 30 years, and I am a big fan of his work. I was disappointed about some of his personal and political views though. I think it's OK that way. I will not join this cultural war/clash of cultures, especially when it comes to "hate", disdain etc. I will not give wotc my money, because they don't make stuff I use. Well, maybe if the relaunch a white box and supplements again... But I have more things to bother about than a company I do not care for. It's like an uncle who was married to one of my parents siblings who never cared for me and got divorced. I could not care less about wotc/that uncle...
Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. I love Greyhawk......Stop. I appreciate the work Mr. Bloch has done and I've purchased all of his books that he has offered for sale because of it. I recognize both Gygax and Arneson were flawed human beings and Gygax was very shitty to Arneson, but that being said we wouldn't have the game we love without both of them. For all their flaws they were also brilliant. WOTC is also flawed, but without its purchase of D&D, it surely would have succumbed and gone under. Hasbro as well. Because of the chain of events, which has been documented thoroughly, we have a game we love and love to play. I have things I like about 5e and its successor and things I don't like, but I will purchase from Hasbro/WOTC the things I think will add to the game I play and not purchase the things I don't. In some of my opinions about the new stuff, I am decidedly Grognard (old school) and in other things I'm meh, it adds to my and my players' enjoyment so we'll do that.
Is Wizards perfect? No. Was Gygax perfect- also no. You can comment on negatives and still admire the positives in a creator. All of the folks whining about how horrid Wizards/Hasbro are have forgotten how problematic TSR and GG himself could be. As always play how you want, support the creators you want but lets not try to demonize others who have different perspectives (except that guy who tried to recreate star frontiers as a white supremacist rpg that guys obviously a dick).
Hasbro is getting sued by investors for deep stroking investors in overproduction of their crappy Star Wars toys. They trash D&D fans and even tried to jack their twinks and simps with the OGL snafu. I mean what's next? 20% is less than DTRPG wants for their cut, depending upon exclusivity. You could put out generic titles too. "Gray Stonk" or something. Those who figure it out would be the above average IQ people you want anyway. Lulu doesn't require InDesign and it's a free upload. fwiw
I bought the book and read it cover to cover. I think they presented Gary and Dave as people. They did something great and they made mistakes. Some of the things they did back then won’t fly now and WOTC is fine to say so. I personally don’t worry about it. It’s true, some things wouldn’t fly now but that doesn’t take anything away from what they did then. If that makes you feel like they are putting them down that’s on you. I think what a lot of people here want is to freeze time and not have things change. I understand the feeling but recognize it’s a fool’s errand. All of that said, I still enjoy your channel and it is your channel so soapbox away. I’m just a random on the internet.
wotc is a piece of trash company that is never getting another penny of my money again. However, that decision has nothing to do with them running Gygax into the dirt. This is probably going to draw fire but I really don't care for Gygax's views on fantasy. I like aspects of Greyhawk but in all honesty I prefer Mystara. I've had a long debate with my self over the last year or so and I have made the decision to put Dungeons and Dragons away for good. If I choose to ever play again it will be using the BECMI rules. I honestly have had enough of the culture surrounding Dungeons and Dragons and quite frankly I want nothing more to do with it. I've moved on to better games that are not owned by a company that actively hates me for my gender and skin tone. Id rather not associate with any of the IPs that wotc has. Just isn't worth it for me and I can tell you its a lot less stressful being apart of the TTRPG hobby flipping D&D the double bird and carrying on as if that IP never existed. I guess what I am trying to say here is who gives a crap? Life is too short for this garbage. I never met Gygax and don't know any of his family so I simply shrug my shoulders when wotc does this sort of thing. As much as we all hate wotc the unfortunate fact is they own the IP and can do whatever they want with it even if we disagree. Anyway time to move on as I am sick of typing about this crap. Have a good one to anyone who reads this.
It's funny seeing D&D's fandom getting so close to the idea that important works of culture should belong collectively to the people practicing it rather than some random company board who decided it might make them so more money. I also have to say that as someone with decidedly leftist political leanings it's hard for me to process how insincere Wizard's version of "political correctness" is. "IPs" such as this one that make up such a significant portion of the mythology and culture of so many people should not be able to be owned by a company, period.
Gary was a man of his time. People can try and judge what he said 50+ years ago based against the woke immorality of today all they want. If you're offended by what was common a generation before you were even born, that's your problem. Gary is dead, it isn't like he cares what people these days think.
Really, you step on this train to? I only want Greyhawk material and content..not follow all the other clickbait / hate video's. I sugest you listen to the latest Eldritch Lorecast about the Gygax "hate" subject in the history book. If you hate WOTC than hate them and dont get ivolved in any way...
That history of D&D book is right now trending in top 20 bestselling games books on Amazon here in Canada, that is the market effect of Elon Musk’s tweets!
I'm with you, but Wizards don't want us, so I'll oblige them and my money will go elsewhere.
THIS. Same.
Ditto, not a dime from me ever again. Not supporting them means exactly that regardless of their "IP" as I stated in an earlier video posted on this channel.
Have zero doubt, Gygax was just a stand in punching bag for all the older players that have been with the hobby for years. They really meant you and me in that piece; it's implied in the subtext. My group walked away from WotC with dignity. They own a trademark, not the hobby. I'm glad WotC dislikes us because I've seen what they cheer for.
At the risk of saying I told you so, I warned you about this when they announced that they were doing Greyhawk. I said it's never good when a multinational corporation turns its greedy eye to your favorite piece of art and starts to "mine" (wotc’s words not mine). Edit - all that said it’s not your fault and I’ll keep supporting you.
As long as Wizbro continues to be arse, it just makes things so hard and frustrating. Fans deserve so much better. But, at least we have you and all you've been doing for Greyhawk. And that's still great.
I appreciate your candor and mature approach to the situation. I think it is telling that your love of the setting outweighs your negative feelings for another force. That's an entirely positive thing.
Agree on all points.
"They don't own Greyhawk." Well said, as usual. It's a tough situation all around. And as I said before in regards to your DM's Guild "controversy," sometimes the hero has to travel into the belly of the beast to continue the quest.
Hey Joe- I don’t find your position hypocritical at all. You keep doing your thing. I appreciate your efforts to keep Greyhawk alive, especially in the vein of AD&D 1E. Thank you!
Love how hes like .
People are calling me a hypocrite.
I think their wrong.
Proceeds to explain why calmly and like a gentleman.
Is respectful even to those who he disagrees with, see folk thats how ya do it.
A man of culture
Thank you so much!
I'll never understand how Wizards can be so slimy as to besmirch someone's name while profiting off the same person's creations. It seems like a real nest of vipers there- if they talk that way about the people that created one of their most profitable products/IPs, imagine how they talk about an employee that's not in lockstep or someone that quits to work elsewhere. It's a small and petty way to run a business and view the world as a whole.
Customer loyalty is a very difficult thing to earn back, and that's doubly so if the customer was an enthusiastic supporter before. Especially when there are so many other places we can go for a game system.
You’re working for fans of Greyhawk, NOT HasWiz.
I wholeheartedly agree with your stance on WotC. Thank you for keeping Greyhawk alive and well. That world will always have a special place in my heart as that is where I first started adventuring all those years ago.
Dm's guild is the best way to reach the people. Your work is excellent. "This is the way"
Thank you for doing what you do to keep Greyhawk alive! I appreciate you!
Sorcerers rule, Wizards drool! 🤪 I kid, I kid…
I've got physical copies of _The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer,_ _The Scarlet Brotherhood,_ _Tales from the Yawning Portal,_ and _Ghosts of Saltmarsh_ (the last in English _and _ German!). Similarly, I've plenty of digital copies of all sorts of books, magazines, adventures, &c. I'm set for life on the _Greyhawk_ front; I enjoy 5e - for the most part - but I've no desire to "upgrade" (though I still prefer 3e and would love to play a 1e/2e campaign some day).
Keep up the good work, I played D&D back in the 80s and 90s, got back into it in 2019. It's a shame how WOTC has been so toxic, I hope you continue with your content, I appreciate it
Thank you for your work with Greyhawk. I make the argument that if you're having fun with your friends around the table, you're doing it right. I haven't liked an edition since 1st but played several. Keeping the old worlds alive is very important as the current IP holders are intent on wiping us out.
I feel you on the Drivethru paradox. I want to replace my older books but I can't afford most of the prices. I do what I must. When it came to the anniversary book, I waited for a used copy to show up on Amazon, and I finally found one. The history alone is worth it
Hating on the existing customer base has been the marketing strategy of many entertainment industries for years now! Whether tabletop games, video games, movies, tv shows, it's the same script and has been for a long, long time now. It's bizarre that anybody ever convinced these companies it was the right way to go, but somehow they did. *boggle*
Yah, weird, huh?
I am not listen to WotC anymore, I am listening to your chanel. Last year, my group went from 5e to 3.5e - still WotC, but they don't get any money from me and 3.5e is a great ruleset for Greyhawk. Greyhawk has a live of its own, as you said, and is in our hearts and minds.
I played Greyhawk as kid. 1st ed AD&D. It was good. Gary wrote well. WotC are pigs in my opinion. I don't play 5th, took 4th book to the RPG shop I got it from and traded it in for Castles & Crusades. Wizards of the Woke need a safe space. I prefer BRP and D00lite in reality but C&C is a love of mine for sure. Greyhawk is great. I was my first and favourite fantasy setting.
I was thinking of Star Blazers, the Comet Empire, at the very end, Comet Empire is blasting the F out of Earth, Argo is blowing up and being evacuated, Wildstar is carrying the wounded Sandor on his back to the escape ship, Sandor says "don't give up. As long as WE live, Earth lives". Kinda feel that way with WotC being like the evil Comet Empire. "As long as WE live, Greyhawk lives!".
Sorry to be dramatic.
So well said. Great show, too.
Wow, love the Star Blazers reference - takes me back to being a kid in the early '80s!
It's okay Wizards hates you too
'Struth.
WotC is actually more interested in "activism" (i.e. crapping all over the original fans just for the spite of it) than canon.
I asked you a while back if you were going to critic that book. I'm glad I waited for your opinion.....saved me $100! Thank you!!! And you are no hypocrite. I mean we all have to decide what we will do and what we wont do. I was like "NO...I refuse to buy that Beholder, and that Displacer Beast....oh and definitely not buying that Gelatinous cube action figure! Oh really they made a Owlbear action figure?" And then I bought it all. I'm the hypocrite! *Plays with my Owlbear*
Agree with you on Wizards and Greyhawk, I think you're doing the right thing.
Don't feel bad about doing the WoTC thing. It's such a non factor in the scheme of things. The game was altered beyond hope a long time ago and we're not gonna fix it so we need to do what we can to capture the new eyes.
Good for you and thanks for your efforts.
At first I thought this video would be about Greyhawk being low-magic lol.
Anyways, my upcoming Greyhawk campaign will be teaching some folks (incl. kids) in my neighborhood D&D, and I'll be using all three of your DM's Guild books! I'll use some of what's in the 2024 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide, but will be significantly limiting races and classes - no Aasimir, Tieflings, or Goliaths, and there will be half-Elves and half-Orcs. No (or very few) Sorcerers and Warlocks. And no fricking Lawful Good orcs. In fact, the Orcs will be villains from the Pomarj raiding the PC's village, to start them off. Keep it up, GG!
The thing about IPs is, you kind of have to be an evil money-sucking corporation to have enough cash to buy one once the creator sells/is forced out/dies. And dealing with your beloved properties being owned by people unworthy of doing so, and yet continuing on with your fandom is quickly becoming an essential skill in this world.
"They own the IP. They do not own Greyhawk" is a great mindset. We, as a society, should be focused on the stories, all the great old material, and our own stories than on the "official" products. I think this is true for D&D in general. .
Personally, I think that you writing for DM's Guild is 100% a positive move. It gives new players who are curious new material to build on to inspire them. Then you can let them fly.
I just want to give a shout out and say I'm your exact target audience. I've only been playing since 2019 so 5e and Forgotten Realms is all I've known. I've heard of Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, etc but never got into lore. The new DMG got me interested in Greyhawk. For research I found this and other channels like 3orcs to be extremely helpful and instead of buying the DMG I would much rather buy your books instead. Thank you very much
@greyhawkgrognard, Do you have a timeline for when you can get your books done in print on demand? 😊 ❤️?
Been playing Dungeons and Dragons since 1987/88, so I managed to get my hands on products that that where 1st edition AD&D at my then new found hobby store, but I have played crossover from 1st/2nd edition and every edition bar 4th (although there are some good products there and I have even borrowed stuff from it).
I am quite neutral about being a "gatekeeper", as long the product is good in my eyes, I buy it, whomever sells it, I don't mind.
A good discussion with respect to everyone participating, I think that this drives the hobby forwards in a good way.
Everything put aside I love both the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms settings, they have their own flair and I really like that.
Keep up the good work.
No timeline, I'm afraid. It's a slow process.
Thanks so much for keeping Greyhawk alive despite all the misbehavior from people who have orders of magnitude more power, money, and influence than you. I especially appreciate your channel because of the dearth of viable campaign setting materials that came out with 5e. Do you have any thoughts about making videos that connect recently made OSR adventures to places within Greyhawk?
Same here! I will buy used or find other ways to get DND materials! Love DMsGuild as well!
Love Greyhawk; Hate WotC. Simple solution: Play Pathfinder. My groups play Pathfinder in Paizo's awesome campaign setting AND in Greyhawk. (And Ravenloft. And Planescape. And even G I Joe, and Star Trek, and etc.)
Dungeon Crawl Classics preserves the soul of AD&D. Even in the way the books are not always reprinted. I remember my hunt tracking down the earliest printings of AD&D books that I could find; DCC feels that way.
Joeseph would probably argue to play his Adventures Dark & Deep RPG. 😊
Paizo is filled with people that think the same thing as Wizards and is no better.
Paizo is WotC on steroids. Do not support Paizo.
No. Paizo are also woke nut jobs. Play C&C or Joe’s game.
Bought your Greyhawk PDFs on DM's Guild! Would love a PoD option for a printed copy!
Greyhawk, and AD&D, belong to those of us who have played and supported it since last millennium. It's like when the powers that be take a beloved IP and change it beyond recognition. Those things do NOT affect me, because they DO NOT exist in my world. I have not supported, nor will I ever support the Evil Red Wizards of the Coast and their twisted, revisionist, perverted view of any of the creators of Dungeons and Dragons, and original Dungeons and Dragons. You keep on doing what you do to introduce new people to our hobby. We'll survive, while they will wander off into the wilderness, and be remembered only as an aberration. And yes, maybe Elon WILL buy the IP, and turn it over to those who love it, cherish it, and want to preserve it. Thank you for all you do!
Using caps TO randomize words IN order to I GUESS emphasize parts of what you are SAYING does not really WORK.
Good man. You're correct, of course. Wizards are awful.
@@jimjim292 Thank you so much, Grammar Policeman. I guess you were unable to understand that those words that were all caps were NOT random. Oh, and I'm so sorry, but by sarcasm font isn't working at this time. Also, I believe that the great majority of people who read that post, or ones like it, would understand that using all caps is the generally accepted manner of showing words that would have been emphasized in a verbal conversation. For example, "I hope YOU understand" has a different emphasis than "I HOPE you understand."
Which Greyhawk novels do you recommend?
It just so happens I did a video of my Top 5 novels: ruclips.net/video/Su8umi4x9wE/видео.html
maybe an errata sheet/video of WOTC DEI vs Gygax OG changes
If you look at my video coming out on Monday, there's a fan-produced product on DMs Guild (not mine) that includes just that.
Wonderful video. Thank you.
I would like to see a large Greyhawk map with a square grid instead of a hex grid.
I understand, its actually common to need products you disagree with their company philosophy.
I’ve gone about recollecting my old TSR setting boxes, as any “attempt” to reproduce them has been egregiously disparaging and condescending to fans of the source. I’m currently running 2nd Edition era Forgotten Realms with Savage Worlds in one campaign, and 2nd edition Dragonlance with BECMI in another. TSR era gave us all the material that we will ever need to tell our own stories in much better developed settings than anything WOTC is capable of. I have the From the Ashes box and will eventually explore Greyhawk again, but it won’t be anything WOTC does. Keep evangelizing the setting, you bringing eyeballs to the content is indeed worth the money WOTC is earning off of your stuff in my opinion.
We understand about dmsguild. Lets get these people back into 1e 2e
+1 for Greyhawk, -999 for WotC.
Competely understand, you need to get your stuff out to the new crowd.
No shame in that
You are spot on. I also hate wizards of the coast, will not give them any money. I show my kids (who are gaming now) all the crap they do and produce.
Totally with you! Ill never give wotc or hasbro a dollar. We play ad&d 1e and Pathfinder 1e .
People like Joe seizing the cultural territory of Greyhawk to manage what it becomes is a necessary move for the future of the setting. Is the biggest, most powerful voice telling future gamers what Greyhawk is WotC's (who will likely ruin it) or the gamers who love it? Holding territory comes at a cost, but it must be done.
How dare you take a nuanced and reasoned stance on a complex subject!
You buy Wizard of the Coast products you support them. You want to help Greyhawk and Role-Playing as a whole you minimize your purchases of their products ( I bought PDFs of the first two versions of Greyhawk from DriveThru long ago, When Wizard and 4e were just stupid). Wizards gets away from Hasbro then I will re-assess until then not another dime goes to any Wizard's owned material.
Good stuff
You are doing the St. Cuthbert & Zagig's. Let no dark Wizard of insipid strand sway you!
And what is a few measly 20%, for some of us of Sea Princes sail those shores for many a'booty of olden time!
Yar har!
Hey Joe, one day I might check these out - I’m sure they are very well done judging by your other work but I don’t have any interest in buying 5E products.
I’m gonna assume (I don’t keep up with this stuff) that you can’t do it for ADD (hence greyheim) and that’s too bad. I have no problems buying from WotC if they allowed GH for 1E/ADD (yours I mean) but until then, they only get cash from older PDFs I buy on DTRPG.
I used to buy some 5E stuff regularly on sale to support Fantasy Grounds but now I do it with SaWo and C&C instead.
I agree, no more money to WotC from me.
I get your position, but if one were feeling vindictive, one might point out that their 20% cut is probably a good bit more than if you bought their books...
Again, it's a trade-off. It's not about the money, but the opportunity to nudge their customers into a more old-school vision of Greyhawk.
Did Wizards of the Coast actually write and publish Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons ? I thought it was a licensed product written by another company. However, WotC still gave the thumbs up to the book, and if it strongly disagreed with what was written about the co-founders, or at least felt it could be toned down, they could have withdrawn the license.
Publish, yes. Write, no. Jon Peterson is credited for curation and commentary on all the historical documents included in the book. He's an independent writer-historian, not a WotC employee. That said, he still needed their permission for all that scanned material to appear alongside his commentary.
The text with the remarks about Gygax, et al was written by Jason Tondro, lead designer at WotC.
@@GreyhawkGrognard Thank you for that clarification.
@@GreyhawkGrognard Yes, that's right. I forgot he did the forward.
Thank you, sir, for all that you do to keep Greyhawk alive. Regarding WotC, I agree with you entirely...and with Elon.
Another excellent video. I agree 💯 percent with everything you said.
I gotta admit I'm a little on the fence with this one. Yes I agree with you about WOTWC shinnagins. But there is nothing wrong with modernized version of Grayhawk for the newer generation of 5e players. And yes nothing wrong with helping those who truly want to know more about the History of Grayhawk and all it splinder. I'm an old school 1 and 2e player from early to late 80s and I absolutely love Grayhawk. All my campaines take place in Grayhawk and will continue to do so. But it kinda sounds like you gotta chip on your shoulder that WOTWC introduced a slightly different Grayhawk that you and I grew up loving so much. However sometimes change is inevitable and today's players aren't like you and I. And WOTWC adjust accordingly to new Gen of players not us old timers. It's a painful reality that I accepted and when I did any frustrations or grievence I had with WOTC went out the window concerning Grayhawk. Thier like it and use, or don't like it and let it be already. It's evident in you deminure you have a chip on your shoulder about this subject. Lost a little respect for you but I Will continue to subscribe and listen to what you have to share. But now it's a little more grain of salt in my listening to you
It's a constant conundrum these days. Love D&D but hate WOTC. Love Warhammer but despise Games Workshop. Love(d) Star Wars and Marvel, hate Disney. On and on it goes, and I don't really have a satisfactory answer. It pains me, and I don't know how it will all end.
I despise all weavers of the black arts. Give me a good length of steel and a foe that can bleed.
Well, Hasbro seem to follow Lucasfilm's/Disney lead. As far as I am concerned though after I look at the Monster Manual (I doubt the likes of the Greyhawk Dragon will be included( that's it.
I have the 2014 supplements, and the DM Guild is fine, more creative than the narrow minds behind Hasbro/WoTC.
See ya Wizards. I'll stick with 1st and 5th edition and call it a day
I support Joe and un-deconstructed Greyhawk.
What else do you hate? I wanna hate the same things.
Pineapple on pizza. Other than that I'm pretty easy going.
Elon Musk has said on Twitter he is interested in buying Hasbro.
He was very upset at how they treated Gary.
It looks like my 7th level miracle is working.
Stay tuned.
I have your back but I have no idea what Wizards did this go round. I'm not a full time DnD RUclips junkie yet so I'm out of the loop .good segment but maybe you or someone could spend five seconds and catch the rest of us up to speed on what exactly wizards said and did? Can someone on this thread explain what Joe's mad about please?
I don't watch many other talking heads ..Soo...my guess from the other comments is Wizards did a history book on DnD and said bad things about Gary and Dave? Can someone expand on that? What did Hasbrohemes actually say? Info please.
Ok I found a professor DM episode and caught up. Wizards short-shit Gary and Dave? Well of course they did it's what they do. Also they want to break away from the old school and claim Greyhawk as their own. Musk's comments were OK but he should have mentioned Dave by name too. Dave wasn't just one of the other geniuses...Dave was co-creator and the critical lynchpin for the DnD rule formation. Gary took Dave's ideas and expanded. But they are both Giants and Musk should have mentioned him. Other than that....hmmm...musks comments help stimulate the market overall and stir the pot. Interesting to see how this all effects stocks and revenue.
Well said, I feel the same. Hope Elon, does by the IP... That would be... interesting(!)
Just imagine if WoTC said, "we can't wait for black guys to leave the hobby". Then, you tell your black friend that you are going to keep playing 5e because "you have to separate the product from the artist". They probably wouldn't stand for that because they have more respect for themselves and their race ( other friends and family ) than that. And they're right to.
“Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”- Yoda
God bless Elon Musk and God keep Gary Gygax, whose jockstrap no-one at WOTC is fit to carry. Gary was a genius. The current DEI-focused regime at WOTC cannot create, only destroy, like all evil.
To say it the krynnish way, evil turns upon itself. Good redeems itself...
Been playing Shadowdark for 2 years. It's great. Kelsey isn't anti-consumer like WoTC
I don't think the dead are sacred, but Gygax did nothing wrong. Progs living in large coastal cities tend to believe, that all of America and even rural Europe is like their environment. This is the same reason they believe, that there was an ill intention for exclusion in early, Eurocentric D&D, when your country was overwhelmingly European-American. D&D was getting more diverse per year, with Arabic, African, Asiatic and Mesoamerican locations added to its worlds, but it was never enough for certain people, and these supplements are considered problematic now, because they were written by White people, who supposedly cannot do research.
Women weren't excluded either, that is an outright lie. They were there from the very start, typing, playtesting, watering the office plants, whatever. But many of them aren't interested in complicated games like D&D. The only chicks, who played before Vampire came out were tomboys and chicks obsessed with Tolkien. I sort of remember the looks I got just for reading fantasy novels. It only changed after the LOTR Trilogy and GoT took the world by storm and the genre was suddenly in.
I love Greyhawk. Fullstop. That's all, I don't hate wotc, they are a game studio. I don't hate Hasbro. They are a company. I do not hate those who create or play New D&D. I do not have strong negative emotions about that, and why should I have them. I am disappointed and frustrated. About wotc, but also about what Gary Gygax said. Or has done to Dave Arneson. Do I hate Gary Gygax for that? No. I play that game for over 30 years, and I am a big fan of his work. I was disappointed about some of his personal and political views though. I think it's OK that way. I will not join this cultural war/clash of cultures, especially when it comes to "hate", disdain etc. I will not give wotc my money, because they don't make stuff I use. Well, maybe if the relaunch a white box and supplements again... But I have more things to bother about than a company I do not care for. It's like an uncle who was married to one of my parents siblings who never cared for me and got divorced. I could not care less about wotc/that uncle...
Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. I love Greyhawk......Stop. I appreciate the work Mr. Bloch has done and I've purchased all of his books that he has offered for sale because of it. I recognize both Gygax and Arneson were flawed human beings and Gygax was very shitty to Arneson, but that being said we wouldn't have the game we love without both of them. For all their flaws they were also brilliant. WOTC is also flawed, but without its purchase of D&D, it surely would have succumbed and gone under. Hasbro as well. Because of the chain of events, which has been documented thoroughly, we have a game we love and love to play. I have things I like about 5e and its successor and things I don't like, but I will purchase from Hasbro/WOTC the things I think will add to the game I play and not purchase the things I don't. In some of my opinions about the new stuff, I am decidedly Grognard (old school) and in other things I'm meh, it adds to my and my players' enjoyment so we'll do that.
Is Wizards perfect? No. Was Gygax perfect- also no. You can comment on negatives and still admire the positives in a creator. All of the folks whining about how horrid Wizards/Hasbro are have forgotten how problematic TSR and GG himself could be. As always play how you want, support the creators you want but lets not try to demonize others who have different perspectives (except that guy who tried to recreate star frontiers as a white supremacist rpg that guys obviously a dick).
Hasbro is getting sued by investors for deep stroking investors in overproduction of their crappy Star Wars toys. They trash D&D fans and even tried to jack their twinks and simps with the OGL snafu. I mean what's next?
20% is less than DTRPG wants for their cut, depending upon exclusivity. You could put out generic titles too. "Gray Stonk" or something. Those who figure it out would be the above average IQ people you want anyway. Lulu doesn't require InDesign and it's a free upload. fwiw
I already have free downloads available on www.greyhawkgrognard.com, and there's a line of Greyheim Adventures modules on DriveThruRPG. Ahem.
Let’s hope Elon buys them out and makes DND great again
I bought the book and read it cover to cover. I think they presented Gary and Dave as people. They did something great and they made mistakes. Some of the things they did back then won’t fly now and WOTC is fine to say so. I personally don’t worry about it. It’s true, some things wouldn’t fly now but that doesn’t take anything away from what they did then. If that makes you feel like they are putting them down that’s on you.
I think what a lot of people here want is to freeze time and not have things change. I understand the feeling but recognize it’s a fool’s errand.
All of that said, I still enjoy your channel and it is your channel so soapbox away. I’m just a random on the internet.
I love Greyhawk but will not support WotC in any way ,will not buy their product will not watch videos of any of their stuff.
"Help us Elon Musk, you're our only hope"
Wizards 💩👹💩
Elon Musk buying Wizards would be a disaster of epic proportions.
Explain
Release the original d&d box sets as print on demand revealing the interest is still there?
It would be epic.
wotc is a piece of trash company that is never getting another penny of my money again. However, that decision has nothing to do with them running Gygax into the dirt. This is probably going to draw fire but I really don't care for Gygax's views on fantasy. I like aspects of Greyhawk but in all honesty I prefer Mystara. I've had a long debate with my self over the last year or so and I have made the decision to put Dungeons and Dragons away for good. If I choose to ever play again it will be using the BECMI rules. I honestly have had enough of the culture surrounding Dungeons and Dragons and quite frankly I want nothing more to do with it. I've moved on to better games that are not owned by a company that actively hates me for my gender and skin tone. Id rather not associate with any of the IPs that wotc has. Just isn't worth it for me and I can tell you its a lot less stressful being apart of the TTRPG hobby flipping D&D the double bird and carrying on as if that IP never existed. I guess what I am trying to say here is who gives a crap? Life is too short for this garbage. I never met Gygax and don't know any of his family so I simply shrug my shoulders when wotc does this sort of thing. As much as we all hate wotc the unfortunate fact is they own the IP and can do whatever they want with it even if we disagree. Anyway time to move on as I am sick of typing about this crap. Have a good one to anyone who reads this.
^^^
HATE WOTC!
It's funny seeing D&D's fandom getting so close to the idea that important works of culture should belong collectively to the people practicing it rather than some random company board who decided it might make them so more money. I also have to say that as someone with decidedly leftist political leanings it's hard for me to process how insincere Wizard's version of "political correctness" is. "IPs" such as this one that make up such a significant portion of the mythology and culture of so many people should not be able to be owned by a company, period.
Whatever happens I just hope Elon Musk will never put his filthy hands on DND...
Gary said what he said, including the racist and misogynist stuff that he repeated and doubled-down on. Facts don’t care about your feelings.
Gary was a man of his time. People can try and judge what he said 50+ years ago based against the woke immorality of today all they want. If you're offended by what was common a generation before you were even born, that's your problem. Gary is dead, it isn't like he cares what people these days think.
LOL. 🤡
Enjoy the rainbow brigade my friend. We will enjoy Greyhawk as it was meant to be.
@@godking4621 I miss the good old days, when corporations didn't shamelessly pander for profit 🙃
Really, you step on this train to? I only want Greyhawk material and content..not follow all the other clickbait / hate video's. I sugest you listen to the latest Eldritch Lorecast about the Gygax "hate" subject in the history book. If you hate WOTC than hate them and dont get ivolved in any way...
That history of D&D book is right now trending in top 20 bestselling games books on Amazon here in Canada, that is the market effect of Elon Musk’s tweets!