Hi everyone! Most of all I appreciate the comments SO MUCH! Especially the callout gang. *Here's all the resources I used for this video as promised!* www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srfu4r all the ways Nintendo has screwed esports twitter.com/PandaGlobal/status/1598741395870605312 - PANDA GLOBAL STATEMENT www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-issues-full-statement-over-smash-world-tour-cancellation - NINTENDO STATEMENT docs.google.com/document/d/1m8Km4iIZ-i5nadyjNWexfsfz1LeFjljV7UkGdz8_Cwc/edit - SWT Follow Up www.ssbwiki.com/2020_Super_Smash_Bros._sexual_misconduct_allegations - 2020 allegations to Smash players medium.com/@smashworldtour/smash-world-tour-official-statement-f568a3d135c8 - SWT Official Statement venturebeat.com/games/smash-bros-esports-in-chaos-nintendo-quashes-unaffiliated-events/ Thank you everyone for supporting this channel and believing in long form, informative videos. I appreciate you!
I was a producer with Panda - really appreciate your insight and support of the scene through your work at CLG. I love Melee so much and want it to succeed, but it definitely sucks the way all of this happened. Thanks for speaking on this Devin.
As someone that's in the Smash scene, Devin really nailed it. He's done his research as always and 100% nails this video. I really appreciated the business perspective to it as well. Also, as someone who makes a living from selling controllers to Smash players.... it may be time to expand my business.
Gameplay especially in fighting games is transformative. A C&D from Nintendo is like Steinway shutting down music artists because they didn't get permission to commercially produce music with their instrument.
30:00 It would have been better if Nintendo had just stayed out of it, and not licenced anyone. I'm so happy that age of empires competitive community is supported by the game devs and Microsoft regardless of its relative size compared to the casual scene, and the communities relatively demanding nature. It really is two completely different philosophies to the working with the community.
30 minute crew! Also I have watched (and sometimes participated in) the Smash scene... for Amiibo! If you think the Smash scene is small, imagine how small Amiibo Smash is when it is essentially an OFFSHOOT of Smash, and suddenly you realize how worrisome this is for someone like me and my friends who actually work to try to organize Amiibo Smash tournaments and try to grow the scene as best we can. Now we have a real problem: if the Amiibo Smash community gets TOO big, it could get noticed by someone like Panda Global who reports to Nintendo in an effort to shut it all down. Where's the incentive for us to grow if that's the case? The answer is that there is no incentive anymore.
I mean I don't know if you wanted to cover this, but the community backlish to panda has been really harsh, at least with melee. Every major player has pulled out from the tournament, and Panda sponsored players and content creators like turndownforwalt, Coney, IBDW, and Plup, are floating the idea of leaving PG. I think Panda might be out of the smash scene permanently if they dont change their tune.
The community attacking Panda was entirely foreseeable, though. IMO, there was already so much vitriol in the community towards Nintendo. Once word got out that Panda partnered WITH Nintendo to take out GiMR (beloved smash community member) AND the year's biggest tournament for both Ultimate AND melee, intense backlash was predictable. That's what's so bone-headed and tough-to-understand about this series of moves by Panda/Alan. Did Alan really think he could get away with it without word getting out in such a tight-knit community? After doing GIMR dirty like that?
this has been one of the most comprehensive videos I've seen on the topic. it makes sense that panda probably had access or a contact to some one hire on the chain and being a straightforward company first probably had a good amount of influence on the situation. but honestly it feels like someone or people at nintendo hate vgbc or still have that old mentality from the nintendo creator's program years. For one, there have been large tournaments in the PC that used SWT health guidelines without pushback. I dont think nintendo cares that much about the allegation, since they are still pulling from the same communities in the panda cup events.
Coming from the other side we always had problems with videogame tournaments and especially smash tournaments. At least at the "grass roots" level, it is something that organizations that run events for general audiences often find themselves wanting nothing to do with it. And now if this whole exclusivity killing off the "more established" scene, that may be the end of it too.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. My blind rage has morphed into a simmering understanding and desire for clarification from Panda, and that actually means a lot dude. This has been terrible news as a smash fan but honestly, if Alan or someone at Panda comes out and just admits that they did terrible things, I feel like we could actually move into a new era of licensed events and SAFE tournaments legally speaking. Right now people HATE Panda Global and I don't blame them whatsoever. I strongly dislike the way they (or possible just Alan) handled things. But I'm not so dumb that I would see smash totally ruined forever just to deny some company the satisfaction of running tournaments. I don't want Alan to see any profits but I have a feeling that most of the Panda global staff are not to blame at all. And the players certainly aren't to blame so why would I want them to suffer and lose their sponsor?
Appreciate your research on this tragedy, Devin. As a local smash tournament organizer, this is one of the worst things Nintendo has done to our community and I'm glad it's getting the attention it deserves
what's stopping SWT folks from setting up a new LLC and putting on the tournament anyways? Ideally they can front all their expenses through some crowd funding mechanism, as the tournament stream revenue would be most at risk. But would Nintendo really go as far as to send the police to break up a tournament / throw out lawsuits at the venues to stop a Twitch stream of a melee tournament? That would be an insane PR / branding risk. Smash community member here -- you nailed this one Devin 30-min club
yes, nintendo is that crazy, the license laws in Japan are very different from EU or USA and they are abusing the shit out of it, and these types of international lawsuits usually go by the licensing rules from the company's country.
I really like your secret call out idea. Everyone knows comments drive engagement but it doesn't feel fake like when uploaders say that they want to "have a conversation I the comments" just we wanted to give feedback on that
Monopolies should not be supported. Given the way the FGC is Panda would have gone for the actions, but well hope that the benefits out weights the cost for Panda. Also Panda Global didn't do any criminal action to get this I hope
There are deeper repercussions to killing the grassroots tournaments since the players will not have smaller tournaments to establish themselves and players will lose out. Even if Panda just took over, it would at best be a short term win but kill the long term chances of any Smash Esports. 30 min shoutout from ESL caster who has been working in Esports for 4 years now
I'm 30 minutes into the first Devin Nash video I've ever watched and I have to say this is a great impression for the channel. As an avid viewer of the smash competitive scene, I've been following this whole controversy closely, and I thought this video was really great. It goes into tons of detail and explains everything really well. This video gave me a great understanding of the situation (if you can really call it an understanding, there's still clearly some information being withheld). Definitely subbing, I love the intellectual vibes this channel gives off.
You're in for a ride! Devin's videos are great. His Patreon is also worth it as far as I'm concerned. Lots of really useful insights for a very low price. 🙂
29:50 @devinnash kindly please do that Excitement of Esports video. I am looking forward to seeing how you were invested in the Esports scene when you were in Counter Logic Gaming and now
30 minute callout! Excellent video, would be interested to see additional followup with the Dr. Alan response and all the TO's coming out and responding too. All that said, love the content around FGC and Smash. They are the most organically growing eSports and their scenes are family to reflect that
30:03 Basically Nintendo esports is doomed. Always has been. ;) Seriously, thanks for another deep dive video. I really appreciate the news you bring both here and on patreon, and I think more people should be smashing that sub button. People don't really know what they're talking about most of the time, and nowadays I kinda start to laugh at how people seem to be stuck on the same exact talking points about this sort of stuff and just completely off course with their evaluations of it. For example, the Elon Musk Twitter Saga(which is honestly still unfolding and still very volatile) some of the people I trust a bit more than others with giving reliable commentary just seemed to be stuck on the clickbait and popular statements without really looking deeper into the entire issue. Your video did. You inspire me a lot to do better as a content creator(not doing so well at the moment but I'm trying) and I'm keeping all of your marketting advice in my mind as I continue to go forward. I have a feeling I'm going to be VERY thankful that I took the time to join the ride for your deep dives.
Devin! Here is your comment, please do a video on your personal history with the FTC, how you got hooked, favorite games / players etc... Even if you're not a super stan, I would still love to hear what interests you about smash and other fighting games.
What's the worse thing that could happen to SWT if they just went ahead with the tournament now? Wouldn't Nintendo's official statement saying they didn't tell them to stop give SWT a defense in court if Nintendo did try to shut it down day of or sue for copyright? Legal dummy here.
Re 29:00 One of the primary reasons Nintendo doesn't want to allow grassroots events to do their own thing is because of game mods. The community has demonstrated a clear propensity to use extensive mods if Big N isn't looking over their shoulder which leads to this weird paradox where Nintendo wants to be very involved in discouraging Project M, custom skins, and online play via emulation from being streamed, but then when it comes time for organizers to sign sponsors, Nintendo seemingly wants no affiliation or association.
I got the 30 minute call to action! Love the breakdown and I feel way more educated on the situation and a new perspective on Nintendo and why they hate fun! Thanks for the video!
30minutes in I'll admit as a viewer the panda cup was kind of a let down when you compare it to swt. We finally got an officially licensed circuit and it's NA exclusive. Whereas swt is international. Another cool thing SWT did was that regionals and locals could register and count towards the circuit total in that region, so small backwoods EU tournaments could give some small amount of points towards qualifying as a European player in the swt championship
Still in at 30mins secret call out. Love this kinda deep dive content. The headlines always grease over the big points and leave out the details and the devil is in the details!
Dan as somebody who was a Challenger lol player, I really appreciate your content man nothing like it was back in the day I remember when Reggie was just a angry solo q kid
Thanks for being an inspiration, not only in marketing, but for life in general. Really showing me that you can do what interests you with enough work/dedication. Keep up the good work!
I wonder if this has anything to do with Nario, Nintendo had featured him on tons of smash stuff and broke ties with him. A lot of people in vgbc are still friendly with him.
Good video, I think that generally everything here is super imformative as to what is happening in the smash scene from a business stand point. The only thing I had an issue with a little bit was the part of Nintendo not benefiting from officially supporting the smash scene. Now take what I say with a grain of salt because 1) im not as business savy as devin so obviously I don't everything about business and stuff 2) I am a smasher (kind've) 3) I also personally am not a fan of the community and I'll explain obv in a second. So I can understand why ANY company would not want to work with a community that has the track record that smash has especially when you consider 2020. My counter argument to that is that despite the statement that Nintendo put out about the SA allegations that year about "siding with the victims" and just in general how they are likely monitoring the community to know whats happening, I don't think they care about the people or the problems that it has. They are a traditional company that cares more about appealing to audiences young or otherwise and serious topics of that nature is not something that they are focused on as a company. I mean if you just look at a lot of the games they make, its all fun, hands-off, kid shit. They also are very image conciouse, with the games they make and the way they address these sorts of issues they just don't seem like the company to spend their time on political or moral issues, I mean they literally have shut down a smash tournament years ago fundrasing cancer, and sure you can say that was awhile ago but I think its pretty clear where the priorities of those older higher ups at nintendo are, good morals are nice for their image, but its not as important to them as you might think. (Edit: I also understand the idea that despite the fact that they don't actually care, again because they are trying to keep an image of themselves, they would still not attempt to support the smash community for this reason to maintain that image. What i'm saying is that they should be called out on their obssession with this image because they haven't been ethically consistent especially with the smash community) Finally the console thing and the profit. This I actually disagree with even more so cause because of the type of game that smash brothers is, a game that brings multiple different franchises into a single game and references them all a bunch in many different ways, it would be stupid to believe that exposure of the game itself and getting more people to play it would also not insentivise people to buy the games that the characters are based on. Now I'm sure someone will say "well a lot of the most memorable games for those franchises haven't even been ported to switch or they're free in the virtual console" yes to the first one, not all on the second one. Also the 64 virtual console was released less then a year ago and that costs money, smash can promote those games as well as the many games that have been ported to switch already. Nintendo understands this too because why else do they add these dlc characters like min min from arms or pyra/mythra from xenoblade or back in smash 4 corrin from FE. Because of how big smash is, it is capable of promoting many different games that can be bought on the Nintendo e-shop for people to play and tell other people about too. Thats not to say that thats like stacks and stacks of money bags for them cause that doesn't sound like a reliable business model, but Im just saying. I will never say that Nintendo has NO reason to not support us, the smash community in all fairness is a rather toxic community in some ways for a lot of reasons including the 2020 allegations. But to say that there is NO reason is inaccurate in my opinion. Again grain of salt, not a business man like devin, just thought i'd speak my mind because this is sometimes a misconception that Nintendo supporting smash would be 100% a liability when I don't entirely think so.
*In b4 Secret call out* What is amazing with Nintendo - look at Mario Maker and how that blew up in the streaming community - so many millions of hours. Granted, part of what made that possible was the lack of monetization - but seriously could you imagine building a game that got so many hours and the revenue per hour was basically ZERO effectively. like Damn. Sure - monetization can go waaaaaay to far. Microtransactions are crap across the board. But some type of reasonably priced subscription.
Smash's history since melee (or smash in general) and its grassroots story is really one of a kind. These people really love their game no matter what. With no help and heck not much money and it still survived 20+ years counting. But this may be another dark ages of smash since brawl / evo era. Brace yourselves.
What makes things so murky is Nintendo's unwillingness to be frank with the community. It's pretty obvious that they have been (very reluctantly) dealing with the FGC for years now and would rather not be involved but are too scared at the possible blowback if they downright ban EVERY live event so, they found themselves with the opportunity to delegate a third party to sanitize the scene for them and have an excuse to ban non-compliant organizers without looking like the bad guys. My theory is that Nintendo was the one that approached Panda, told them that they were planning on just banning all live events and be done with it UNLESS someone of their utmost trust wanted to take the reins and Nintendo would support that third party with unrestricted licensing and possibly some other undisclosed benefits. That'd explain why Panda's ex CEO sees himself as more of a savior than a villain, but can't really talk much about it because he is probably legally muzzled. He probably saw Panda as the only route moving forward but again, underestimated the blowback from the community.
30 minutes in. This is sad. Makes me cringe, as a mature and responsible gamer. I guess this is why we can’t have nice things. I don’t blame Nintendo one bit for wanting to protect their brand image. I don’t like how Panda is playing them tho. To solve the issue, as a parent, Nintendo should force them to share the license lol
as much as people love smash the best thing is to move on to a game franchise that actually wants them to have a platform to give Nintendo the finger by being successful in other games
the thing is: the competitive scene does need smash, but nintendo doesnt need the competitive scene, smash would perform well with or without it,. moving to another game and being successful in it wouldn´t do a dent on nintendo and in fact would make things easier for them (taking control of their game´s image).
30 minutes in, not surprising as in pretty much always hit this point. I love all the details; factual information and I find the entire thing fascinating so as always, I will be back on future videos :)
I am 30 minutes in. I love smash esports too. Sucks that this is happening. It is one of the best esports on an gameplay standpoint, and it has a really entertaining professional player base who drive the esport on a content side.
Something that keeps being overlooked is the part of Panda's statement where they complain that SWT "attacked the hard work and ethics of those behind the Panda Cup", whereas the statement in question did the complete opposite. Panda here is trying to sneak in a bad faith characterization of SWT in order to bolster their own image in the eyes of anyone reading their statement. And since this point is never brought up by any of these analyses, I guess it's a well-advised tactic.
What does Nintendo want from us? To buy the games and go away, corporations, by design, are lazy, or too put to another way, they always want to flow with the easiest river to run from, licensing to small fries is hard and no big business wants to deal with extra stuff. That's my opinion, at least.
30:00 into the video. Just like I said on the last Twitter video... welcome to the world of optics and looking good towards the general public = that leads to a whole world of unfun & mechanical non-organic ingenuine interactions. Curated spaces are so boring, even if they have a lot of money and are "family-friendly". I've grown to hate the sentiment... it's your typical Simpsons outraged woman spouting the same thing when anything happens... "Think of the Children!" I'm glad grassroots and the entirety of the Smash scene is up in arms in this... and I'm glad that Smash competitive is going down the dumps for a good cause and doing it as loud as it can... because once Alan/PG takes hold unopposed... it will be the death of Competitive Smash as we know it. If it all goes to shit... it's all good, it can be rebuilt at some point with grassroots in mind with enough push and pestering and never supporting these shady racketeering a-holes like Alan & PG.
Hi Devin, I love all of your videos! Thank you so much for all of the informative content! As a fan of the Smash scene, I am very glad that you covered this topic.
30 minutes, just so you know that I’m actually listening. Maybe look at the Ban Nairo movement that happened in the last few months. A lot of people are pointing fingers at all that exposé against VGBC and it coincides timing wise with the statement from Nintendo. Not sure if you had heard or seen anything about it but it could open eyes at something else that could have been shown to the higher ups as a reason for a lack of safety at the event.
Running a tournament is fair use, unquestionably imo. I get it would take legal battles to confirm this, which both sides want to avoid, but like... its so clear
I think that the companies who win are the ones who do not try to make money. This does not seem to be the case for Nintendo. One day they will pay for this.
As you explained it I totally understand Nintendos position.. but it's pretty low class and crappy to do something this LATE in the date. However, Panda is a very unethically sound company. Liars and underhanded shady business practices.. WHY is the 'family friendly' Nintendo getting in bed with them??
I really want to thank you for pointing out the liability of the player allegations being a huge reason for not wanting to license smash. The 2020 allegations genuinely HAS done notable damage to smash's brand as if you may remember, one of the biggest Smash tourney players of the time, ZeRo. Was officially invited to an invitational prior to Ultimate's release, interacted with Reggie and several other nintendo reps in 2018 or so. 2 years later, He's exposed up in the 2020 sexual allegations. That's a PR NIGHTMARE. Even to date its a meme online to associate Smash bros with these kind of crimes and there will ALWAYS be that damage to the brand's name. After years of fighting to get Nintendo to embrace and recognize the grassroots scene. Its been ruined by this behavior: We may NEVER see anything like the smash invitational ever again. From a business perspective, i get it. I hope that the smash community not only holds nintendo accountable, which they should, but also acknowledge how their scene has failed in the past to make a strong case for why nintendo should change their mind and be mindful of that as they make their scene safer in the long run for anyone who may want to do business with them. Nintendo, sponsors, or otherwise.
Devon fills in the missing pieces of the puzzle, notably that SWT was probably talking to low-ranking project managers at Nintendo all along, and the possibility that Nintendo is paranoid of more Smash tournament-related scandals like what broke in 2020.
I’m 30 minutes in and I love the analysis. I really think Panda has a lot of explaining to do because otherwise I won’t be watching the Panda cup. Their statement was quite bad and not sufficient at all.
Nintendo can get eff themselves at this point. I'm never attending any event sponsored by them from now on at this point, from any game. 30 mins, yada yada
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi everyone! Most of all I appreciate the comments SO MUCH! Especially the callout gang.
*Here's all the resources I used for this video as promised!*
www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srfu4r all the ways Nintendo has screwed esports
twitter.com/PandaGlobal/status/1598741395870605312 - PANDA GLOBAL STATEMENT
www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-issues-full-statement-over-smash-world-tour-cancellation - NINTENDO STATEMENT
docs.google.com/document/d/1m8Km4iIZ-i5nadyjNWexfsfz1LeFjljV7UkGdz8_Cwc/edit - SWT Follow Up
www.ssbwiki.com/2020_Super_Smash_Bros._sexual_misconduct_allegations - 2020 allegations to Smash players
medium.com/@smashworldtour/smash-world-tour-official-statement-f568a3d135c8 - SWT Official Statement
venturebeat.com/games/smash-bros-esports-in-chaos-nintendo-quashes-unaffiliated-events/
Thank you everyone for supporting this channel and believing in long form, informative videos. I appreciate you!
ur dum
I was a producer with Panda - really appreciate your insight and support of the scene through your work at CLG. I love Melee so much and want it to succeed, but it definitely sucks the way all of this happened. Thanks for speaking on this Devin.
As someone that's in the Smash scene, Devin really nailed it. He's done his research as always and 100% nails this video. I really appreciated the business perspective to it as well. Also, as someone who makes a living from selling controllers to Smash players.... it may be time to expand my business.
Devin does a better job than most gaming journalists
Wdym, name one journalist that can actually do a BETTER job than Devin lmfao. He's the best!
Gameplay especially in fighting games is transformative. A C&D from Nintendo is like Steinway shutting down music artists because they didn't get permission to commercially produce music with their instrument.
30:00 It would have been better if Nintendo had just stayed out of it, and not licenced anyone. I'm so happy that age of empires competitive community is supported by the game devs and Microsoft regardless of its relative size compared to the casual scene, and the communities relatively demanding nature. It really is two completely different philosophies to the working with the community.
30 minute crew! Also I have watched (and sometimes participated in) the Smash scene... for Amiibo! If you think the Smash scene is small, imagine how small Amiibo Smash is when it is essentially an OFFSHOOT of Smash, and suddenly you realize how worrisome this is for someone like me and my friends who actually work to try to organize Amiibo Smash tournaments and try to grow the scene as best we can. Now we have a real problem: if the Amiibo Smash community gets TOO big, it could get noticed by someone like Panda Global who reports to Nintendo in an effort to shut it all down. Where's the incentive for us to grow if that's the case? The answer is that there is no incentive anymore.
I mean I don't know if you wanted to cover this, but the community backlish to panda has been really harsh, at least with melee. Every major player has pulled out from the tournament, and Panda sponsored players and content creators like turndownforwalt, Coney, IBDW, and Plup, are floating the idea of leaving PG. I think Panda might be out of the smash scene permanently if they dont change their tune.
The community attacking Panda was entirely foreseeable, though. IMO, there was already so much vitriol in the community towards Nintendo. Once word got out that Panda partnered WITH Nintendo to take out GiMR (beloved smash community member) AND the year's biggest tournament for both Ultimate AND melee, intense backlash was predictable.
That's what's so bone-headed and tough-to-understand about this series of moves by Panda/Alan. Did Alan really think he could get away with it without word getting out in such a tight-knit community? After doing GIMR dirty like that?
this has been one of the most comprehensive videos I've seen on the topic. it makes sense that panda probably had access or a contact to some one hire on the chain and being a straightforward company first probably had a good amount of influence on the situation. but honestly it feels like someone or people at nintendo hate vgbc or still have that old mentality from the nintendo creator's program years. For one, there have been large tournaments in the PC that used SWT health guidelines without pushback. I dont think nintendo cares that much about the allegation, since they are still pulling from the same communities in the panda cup events.
Thank you for covering this. The Melee scene means a lot to me.
Coming from the other side we always had problems with videogame tournaments and especially smash tournaments. At least at the "grass roots" level, it is something that organizations that run events for general audiences often find themselves wanting nothing to do with it. And now if this whole exclusivity killing off the "more established" scene, that may be the end of it too.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. My blind rage has morphed into a simmering understanding and desire for clarification from Panda, and that actually means a lot dude. This has been terrible news as a smash fan but honestly, if Alan or someone at Panda comes out and just admits that they did terrible things, I feel like we could actually move into a new era of licensed events and SAFE tournaments legally speaking. Right now people HATE Panda Global and I don't blame them whatsoever. I strongly dislike the way they (or possible just Alan) handled things. But I'm not so dumb that I would see smash totally ruined forever just to deny some company the satisfaction of running tournaments. I don't want Alan to see any profits but I have a feeling that most of the Panda global staff are not to blame at all. And the players certainly aren't to blame so why would I want them to suffer and lose their sponsor?
Appreciate your research on this tragedy, Devin. As a local smash tournament organizer, this is one of the worst things Nintendo has done to our community and I'm glad it's getting the attention it deserves
what's stopping SWT folks from setting up a new LLC and putting on the tournament anyways? Ideally they can front all their expenses through some crowd funding mechanism, as the tournament stream revenue would be most at risk. But would Nintendo really go as far as to send the police to break up a tournament / throw out lawsuits at the venues to stop a Twitch stream of a melee tournament? That would be an insane PR / branding risk.
Smash community member here -- you nailed this one Devin
30-min club
I agree! call their bluff
yes, nintendo is that crazy, the license laws in Japan are very different from EU or USA and they are abusing the shit out of it, and these types of international lawsuits usually go by the licensing rules from the company's country.
Smash world tour ran out of money and needed a scapegoat.
I really like your secret call out idea. Everyone knows comments drive engagement but it doesn't feel fake like when uploaders say that they want to "have a conversation I the comments" just we wanted to give feedback on that
Monopolies should not be supported. Given the way the FGC is Panda would have gone for the actions, but well hope that the benefits out weights the cost for Panda. Also Panda Global didn't do any criminal action to get this I hope
There are deeper repercussions to killing the grassroots tournaments since the players will not have smaller tournaments to establish themselves and players will lose out. Even if Panda just took over, it would at best be a short term win but kill the long term chances of any Smash Esports. 30 min shoutout from ESL caster who has been working in Esports for 4 years now
I'm 30 minutes into the first Devin Nash video I've ever watched and I have to say this is a great impression for the channel. As an avid viewer of the smash competitive scene, I've been following this whole controversy closely, and I thought this video was really great. It goes into tons of detail and explains everything really well. This video gave me a great understanding of the situation (if you can really call it an understanding, there's still clearly some information being withheld). Definitely subbing, I love the intellectual vibes this channel gives off.
You're in for a ride! Devin's videos are great. His Patreon is also worth it as far as I'm concerned. Lots of really useful insights for a very low price. 🙂
He is the guy to listen to when it comes to all things marketing in esports, business in content creation, etc. Dude is the man.
29:50 @devinnash kindly please do that Excitement of Esports video. I am looking forward to seeing how you were invested in the Esports scene when you were in Counter Logic Gaming and now
30 minute callout! Excellent video, would be interested to see additional followup with the Dr. Alan response and all the TO's coming out and responding too. All that said, love the content around FGC and Smash. They are the most organically growing eSports and their scenes are family to reflect that
30:03 Basically Nintendo esports is doomed.
Always has been. ;)
Seriously, thanks for another deep dive video. I really appreciate the news you bring both here and on patreon, and I think more people should be smashing that sub button. People don't really know what they're talking about most of the time, and nowadays I kinda start to laugh at how people seem to be stuck on the same exact talking points about this sort of stuff and just completely off course with their evaluations of it. For example, the Elon Musk Twitter Saga(which is honestly still unfolding and still very volatile) some of the people I trust a bit more than others with giving reliable commentary just seemed to be stuck on the clickbait and popular statements without really looking deeper into the entire issue. Your video did.
You inspire me a lot to do better as a content creator(not doing so well at the moment but I'm trying) and I'm keeping all of your marketting advice in my mind as I continue to go forward. I have a feeling I'm going to be VERY thankful that I took the time to join the ride for your deep dives.
Here after the 30 min mark.
Ooh shieet
Devin! Here is your comment, please do a video on your personal history with the FTC, how you got hooked, favorite games / players etc... Even if you're not a super stan, I would still love to hear what interests you about smash and other fighting games.
What's the worse thing that could happen to SWT if they just went ahead with the tournament now? Wouldn't Nintendo's official statement saying they didn't tell them to stop give SWT a defense in court if Nintendo did try to shut it down day of or sue for copyright? Legal dummy here.
Re 29:00
One of the primary reasons Nintendo doesn't want to allow grassroots events to do their own thing is because of game mods. The community has demonstrated a clear propensity to use extensive mods if Big N isn't looking over their shoulder which leads to this weird paradox where Nintendo wants to be very involved in discouraging Project M, custom skins, and online play via emulation from being streamed, but then when it comes time for organizers to sign sponsors, Nintendo seemingly wants no affiliation or association.
I got the 30 minute call to action! Love the breakdown and I feel way more educated on the situation and a new perspective on Nintendo and why they hate fun! Thanks for the video!
30minutes in
I'll admit as a viewer the panda cup was kind of a let down when you compare it to swt. We finally got an officially licensed circuit and it's NA exclusive. Whereas swt is international. Another cool thing SWT did was that regionals and locals could register and count towards the circuit total in that region, so small backwoods EU tournaments could give some small amount of points towards qualifying as a European player in the swt championship
Thank you for covering this, commenting for the cta and the algorithm :)
Callout club represent. Thanks for the timely coverage and deep cuts as always Devin.
Still in at 30mins secret call out. Love this kinda deep dive content. The headlines always grease over the big points and leave out the details and the devil is in the details!
Thanks for covering it :)
Dan as somebody who was a Challenger lol player, I really appreciate your content man nothing like it was back in the day I remember when Reggie was just a angry solo q kid
I would love to see more FGC content from Devin
the part about the scandle is huge.
Thanks for being an inspiration, not only in marketing, but for life in general. Really showing me that you can do what interests you with enough work/dedication. Keep up the good work!
I wonder if this has anything to do with Nario, Nintendo had featured him on tons of smash stuff and broke ties with him. A lot of people in vgbc are still friendly with him.
Good video, I think that generally everything here is super imformative as to what is happening in the smash scene from a business stand point. The only thing I had an issue with a little bit was the part of Nintendo not benefiting from officially supporting the smash scene. Now take what I say with a grain of salt because 1) im not as business savy as devin so obviously I don't everything about business and stuff 2) I am a smasher (kind've) 3) I also personally am not a fan of the community and I'll explain obv in a second.
So I can understand why ANY company would not want to work with a community that has the track record that smash has especially when you consider 2020. My counter argument to that is that despite the statement that Nintendo put out about the SA allegations that year about "siding with the victims" and just in general how they are likely monitoring the community to know whats happening, I don't think they care about the people or the problems that it has. They are a traditional company that cares more about appealing to audiences young or otherwise and serious topics of that nature is not something that they are focused on as a company. I mean if you just look at a lot of the games they make, its all fun, hands-off, kid shit. They also are very image conciouse, with the games they make and the way they address these sorts of issues they just don't seem like the company to spend their time on political or moral issues, I mean they literally have shut down a smash tournament years ago fundrasing cancer, and sure you can say that was awhile ago but I think its pretty clear where the priorities of those older higher ups at nintendo are, good morals are nice for their image, but its not as important to them as you might think. (Edit: I also understand the idea that despite the fact that they don't actually care, again because they are trying to keep an image of themselves, they would still not attempt to support the smash community for this reason to maintain that image. What i'm saying is that they should be called out on their obssession with this image because they haven't been ethically consistent especially with the smash community)
Finally the console thing and the profit. This I actually disagree with even more so cause because of the type of game that smash brothers is, a game that brings multiple different franchises into a single game and references them all a bunch in many different ways, it would be stupid to believe that exposure of the game itself and getting more people to play it would also not insentivise people to buy the games that the characters are based on. Now I'm sure someone will say "well a lot of the most memorable games for those franchises haven't even been ported to switch or they're free in the virtual console" yes to the first one, not all on the second one. Also the 64 virtual console was released less then a year ago and that costs money, smash can promote those games as well as the many games that have been ported to switch already. Nintendo understands this too because why else do they add these dlc characters like min min from arms or pyra/mythra from xenoblade or back in smash 4 corrin from FE. Because of how big smash is, it is capable of promoting many different games that can be bought on the Nintendo e-shop for people to play and tell other people about too. Thats not to say that thats like stacks and stacks of money bags for them cause that doesn't sound like a reliable business model, but Im just saying.
I will never say that Nintendo has NO reason to not support us, the smash community in all fairness is a rather toxic community in some ways for a lot of reasons including the 2020 allegations. But to say that there is NO reason is inaccurate in my opinion. Again grain of salt, not a business man like devin, just thought i'd speak my mind because this is sometimes a misconception that Nintendo supporting smash would be 100% a liability when I don't entirely think so.
Thanks for the deep dive Devon. Been playing melee for ten years and yours is the only take I've been waiting for
Made it to the in video call out! Thank you for all you do! Love the videos
*In b4 Secret call out* What is amazing with Nintendo - look at Mario Maker and how that blew up in the streaming community - so many millions of hours. Granted, part of what made that possible was the lack of monetization - but seriously could you imagine building a game that got so many hours and the revenue per hour was basically ZERO effectively. like Damn.
Sure - monetization can go waaaaaay to far. Microtransactions are crap across the board. But some type of reasonably priced subscription.
Smashers do not want Nintendo's help. They just want to be left alone.
This ^ If Nintendo was hands off, corporations would've invested in the Smash scene without cease and desist threats.
100%
Smash's history since melee (or smash in general) and its grassroots story is really one of a kind. These people really love their game no matter what. With no help and heck not much money and it still survived 20+ years counting. But this may be another dark ages of smash since brawl / evo era. Brace yourselves.
30 min crew, thank you so much for your coverage of my favorite eSport as well ❤
Honestly Nintendo has always been the stick in the mud when it comes to gaming. It blows my mind that their business model still makes money nowadays.
Making great products that sell is a pretty good business model 😂
What makes things so murky is Nintendo's unwillingness to be frank with the community. It's pretty obvious that they have been (very reluctantly) dealing with the FGC for years now and would rather not be involved but are too scared at the possible blowback if they downright ban EVERY live event so, they found themselves with the opportunity to delegate a third party to sanitize the scene for them and have an excuse to ban non-compliant organizers without looking like the bad guys. My theory is that Nintendo was the one that approached Panda, told them that they were planning on just banning all live events and be done with it UNLESS someone of their utmost trust wanted to take the reins and Nintendo would support that third party with unrestricted licensing and possibly some other undisclosed benefits.
That'd explain why Panda's ex CEO sees himself as more of a savior than a villain, but can't really talk much about it because he is probably legally muzzled. He probably saw Panda as the only route moving forward but again, underestimated the blowback from the community.
30 min., don't care much about esports but interesting to know whats going around in gaming space.
At the 30 minute mark. I always appreciate the detail put into and viewpoint of your content. :)
Tons of information crammed into 30 minutes and there is still more!
This is why some new basic consumer rights in defining things like this as assumed fair use.
30 minutes in. This is sad. Makes me cringe, as a mature and responsible gamer. I guess this is why we can’t have nice things. I don’t blame Nintendo one bit for wanting to protect their brand image. I don’t like how Panda is playing them tho. To solve the issue, as a parent, Nintendo should force them to share the license lol
30 MINUTE DEEP DIVE GANG AYOOOOOO
Here 30 minutes in, appreciate your in depth coverage as usual.
Ludwig comes through!! The 🐐
Just hope none of the people at nintendo give him a cease and assist.
@@davidflaherty2152 hopefully not, he can put it down as a charity event.
The Algorithm had a big change, your vids and others aren't making my front page as they should and as I like
I don't usually do the callouts but I'm always here brotha! love the learning
30:22 never heard of this channel before but I just subscribed based on the strength of this video.
I run a smash/Kart night every year with all my mates, I hope the big Nintendo doesn't shut me down......
Melee is sick.
30 mins. I don't even care about esports, but here I am listening to you talk about it. Solid assessment of the situation. 👌
as much as people love smash the best thing is to move on to a game franchise that actually wants them to have a platform to give Nintendo the finger by being successful in other games
the thing is: the competitive scene does need smash, but nintendo doesnt need the competitive scene, smash would perform well with or without it,. moving to another game and being successful in it wouldn´t do a dent on nintendo and in fact would make things easier for them (taking control of their game´s image).
I got this 30 minutes baby! Much love
30 min secret call out, thanks for the quality content!
30 minutes in, not surprising as in pretty much always hit this point. I love all the details; factual information and I find the entire thing fascinating so as always, I will be back on future videos :)
30:00 Waiting for Devin Nash to make an appearance in Smash.
secret callout is a great CTA format. much love
I am 30 minutes in. I love smash esports too. Sucks that this is happening. It is one of the best esports on an gameplay standpoint, and it has a really entertaining professional player base who drive the esport on a content side.
30 mins you make good content so it’s easy to watch and listen for the length of the video
Something that keeps being overlooked is the part of Panda's statement where they complain that SWT "attacked the hard work and ethics of those behind the Panda Cup", whereas the statement in question did the complete opposite. Panda here is trying to sneak in a bad faith characterization of SWT in order to bolster their own image in the eyes of anyone reading their statement. And since this point is never brought up by any of these analyses, I guess it's a well-advised tactic.
What does Nintendo want from us? To buy the games and go away, corporations, by design, are lazy, or too put to another way, they always want to flow with the easiest river to run from, licensing to small fries is hard and no big business wants to deal with extra stuff. That's my opinion, at least.
30:00 into the video. Just like I said on the last Twitter video... welcome to the world of optics and looking good towards the general public = that leads to a whole world of unfun & mechanical non-organic ingenuine interactions. Curated spaces are so boring, even if they have a lot of money and are "family-friendly". I've grown to hate the sentiment... it's your typical Simpsons outraged woman spouting the same thing when anything happens... "Think of the Children!"
I'm glad grassroots and the entirety of the Smash scene is up in arms in this... and I'm glad that Smash competitive is going down the dumps for a good cause and doing it as loud as it can... because once Alan/PG takes hold unopposed... it will be the death of Competitive Smash as we know it. If it all goes to shit... it's all good, it can be rebuilt at some point with grassroots in mind with enough push and pestering and never supporting these shady racketeering a-holes like Alan & PG.
Hi Devin, I love all of your videos! Thank you so much for all of the informative content! As a fan of the Smash scene, I am very glad that you covered this topic.
I heard Nintendo dropped out due to smell?!?
I was already pretty sick of Nintendo and this is like the nail in the coffin
I do want to mention I’m glad with everything you did with the smash scene at clg thank you devin ♥️
Really informative and helpful, thank you!
30 minutes, just so you know that I’m actually listening. Maybe look at the Ban Nairo movement that happened in the last few months. A lot of people are pointing fingers at all that exposé against VGBC and it coincides timing wise with the statement from Nintendo. Not sure if you had heard or seen anything about it but it could open eyes at something else that could have been shown to the higher ups as a reason for a lack of safety at the event.
The tweet on the thumbnail was clickbait.
30 minutes flies by when you're enjoying content :)
Running a tournament is fair use, unquestionably imo. I get it would take legal battles to confirm this, which both sides want to avoid, but like... its so clear
Someone should bite the bullet at some point if they want to make sure grassroots esports survives and not filled with monopolies.
Still here
30min in. Secret call out!!!!
Caving to the CTA! 30 minutes! :)
I think that the companies who win are the ones who do not try to make money. This does not seem to be the case for Nintendo. One day they will pay for this.
Doubt it. I've been wanting them to pay for their shit ever since they divided a Pokemon game into two versions of the same game...
All my homies hate pandas named alan
As you explained it I totally understand Nintendos position.. but it's pretty low class and crappy to do something this LATE in the date. However, Panda is a very unethically sound company. Liars and underhanded shady business practices.. WHY is the 'family friendly' Nintendo getting in bed with them??
6 seconds secret call out
30:00 really!
More like 15 min with 2x
@@sun-eye built different I guess.
I really want to thank you for pointing out the liability of the player allegations being a huge reason for not wanting to license smash.
The 2020 allegations genuinely HAS done notable damage to smash's brand as if you may remember, one of the biggest Smash tourney players of the time, ZeRo. Was officially invited to an invitational prior to Ultimate's release, interacted with Reggie and several other nintendo reps in 2018 or so.
2 years later, He's exposed up in the 2020 sexual allegations. That's a PR NIGHTMARE. Even to date its a meme online to associate Smash bros with these kind of crimes and there will ALWAYS be that damage to the brand's name.
After years of fighting to get Nintendo to embrace and recognize the grassroots scene. Its been ruined by this behavior: We may NEVER see anything like the smash invitational ever again. From a business perspective, i get it.
I hope that the smash community not only holds nintendo accountable, which they should, but also acknowledge how their scene has failed in the past to make a strong case for why nintendo should change their mind and be mindful of that as they make their scene safer in the long run for anyone who may want to do business with them. Nintendo, sponsors, or otherwise.
Im 30 min in this is the secret call out I got here Im still watching. This is such an insanely good video.
So sad to see, Nintendo never ceases to amaze me
30 MINS SECRET CALL 👀
I’m 30 min DEEP!
Devon fills in the missing pieces of the puzzle, notably that SWT was probably talking to low-ranking project managers at Nintendo all along, and the possibility that Nintendo is paranoid of more Smash tournament-related scandals like what broke in 2020.
I’m 30 minutes in and I love the analysis. I really think Panda has a lot of explaining to do because otherwise I won’t be watching the Panda cup. Their statement was quite bad and not sufficient at all.
30 minutes bammo. thanks for the video!
man I feel bad for GimR
Nintendo is the Ferrari of gaming.
the whole brand image argument doesn't really work though.... they have been awful to smash when everything was dandy and fine.
30 min in lel
Nintendo can get eff themselves at this point. I'm never attending any event sponsored by them from now on at this point, from any game.
30 mins, yada yada