Waiting patiently for the video where Winter asks Jimmy for the number, jimmy walks up and tells him, and then Winter scolds jimmy for appearing on camera before proceeding with the cast as normal
I'm so happy this guy is still making starcraft 2 videos. I used to visit my grandmother on the weekends to marathon like a weeks worth content. She played a disgusting amount of Starcraft 1 and 2 in the day. Videos are still high quality I see.
Don't worry guys, we nerfed ghosts ! Still replaces marines and marauders as a fighting unit against ling/bane while being a lethal spellcaster against lurkers, ultras and vipers
Having him talking about how they nerfed ultra speed so they are borderline useless against a skilled terran player off creep as they were getting murdered without even getting a single hit in was depressing.
you forgot to mention that ghost has 100 life and no Light tag , so it takes like 9 bane hits to kill. which makes ghost a tank unit as well. Wonderfully balanced i would say
@@LazyMonkey24 It's not only the ultras, most zerg units got made worthless since they cannot close the gap. Bains not enough health, they get killed before they arrive. Infesters vision reduced. Ultras speed reduced. Brute lords damage reduced and still sluggish slow like ever. And now the queens cost more so the early zerg game is guaranteed fu.ked up.
Terran units were made strong because they're supposed to be slow and defensive. Stim/Medivacs make them the fastest and most nimble units in the game. They get to be super strong AND fast AND long range AND they can fly. Terran bio is just too fucking strong and always has been.
they also slow the enemy now with marauders. This is why Terrans don't really use the rest of their lineup because MMM is just the answer for everything. IF it's not then you're not micro-ing hard enough.
Yeah in basic game design you get two out of health, speed, and dps. If it's all 3 it's usually a boss fight. Bio somehow has all of them. They also have density, they're some of the smallest sized units so they can put out ridiculous damage per square inch
I think the real issue is with Protoss and Zerg tbh. Both of them have mechanics that make them difficult if not impossible to balance, creep spread for Zerg and warp gates for Protoss. Like think about it. If you make Zerg units able to evenly fight bio off creep, then they're going to pretty easily crush it with the additional mobility and queen support on creep. So you gotta try and find a middle ground where Zerg will basically always be inefficient on offense, but be strong enough on defense to make up for it. Even if you manage that, the matchup is still fundamentally boring because the Terran will try to avoid any risky attacks to avoid fighting on creep, and the Zerg doesn't want to attack at all as their units are better on defense! It sucks! Protoss arguably has it even worse. If you can instantly warp in 30 supply of extra Gateway units anywhere on the map, then Protoss armies *must* be fundamentally worse at max supply than their Terran and Zerg counterparts. Otherwise Protoss can trivially win any vaguely close fight by reinforcing the moment they start losing units. And that isn't even factoring in the flexibility of being to warp in those units as a counterattack instead. So we end up with a race whose basic units are just bad, and will lose head to head with both other races in both cost and supply efficiency. As a result, Protoss is incredibly fragile - if they ever lose too many Stargate and Robotics facility units, they'll probably never recover as Gateway units on their own will never be powerful enough. But the flexibility and reinforcing power of warp gates is too much to ignore in favor of building like 10 Stargates or something. The worst thing Terran has is the mule, which definitely causes issues with letting Terrans field a larger army than the other races, but because its always available it doesn't force the same sort of situational penalties onto Terran units that Zerg and Protoss are constantly fighting against. Still kind of a dumb mechanic, but it's at least possible to balance in ways that don't make the game incredibly boring.
It was pretty depressing to watch this live and seeing the top 8 basically being 6 Terran, Serral and Nightmare. It was fun having Rex read out some of my comments though since I was one of the few English speaking commenters.
The amount of Terran different harassment choices, drops, liberators, banshees... and that Terran can control points with siege tanks... hmmm... bring back Infested Terran, and give Zerg more options :)
and all of this is possible because of siege tanks being so op that like 2-3 tanks can defend all early game harassment with ease. make the siege tank not instant hit but more like ravagers and suddenly terran wont be as op as they are now. just imagine, they now have to put effort into defence rather than just full on harassment and attacks.
The ultra mega nerf is ridiculous. What a stupid idea !!! So now Terran who could already lift their bio up instantly, heal their soldier and be hyper mobile with their medivac, can also kite Ultralisks indefinitely ???!!!
They still derp around, because of their size less ultras can be in the same space bumping into things and each other, really who had the idea of increasing ultra size?
@@Zergling.honestly I don’t mind the size increase to balance the push priority (the whole reason they got shrunk in the first place) but the speed DECREASE??? Terrible idea
@@stubbornviking8548 Thats why i genuinely think they did not test all the ultras changes together, the push priority + the speed was tested but i think all 3 together where not and now it made all this a ultra nerf in my opinion, at best a sidegrade but i really think ultras got a nerf, ironic since ghost got nerfed too, this terran council is working good.
THE SCORE _Terran Must Win Council_ vs _My Desire to Watch SC2_ 3 - 1 ggs, not even close! Terran Must Win Council looks unbeatable, My Desire to Watch SC2 doesn’t stand a chance!
@@matiashamalainen7965 And the buff , come to think of it, seems much more relevant to lower level players. The best of the best have a much higher chance to micro the units, making the buff not that much relevant.
tbh watching homestory cup it was pretty clear that terran is just waaay too good now. All PvT games was over within 7 mins. It feels like Terran can fuck up things and still easily recover where if P or Z does so they normally just lose outright. Something needs to happen, SC2 is just not fun anymore.
So Serral racking up 1.5 million dollar worth of prize money playing ZergCraft 2 for 5,6 years straight and now as soon as Terran win 1 world champion and a few small tournaments, you call for Terran nerf? Absolutely ridiculous. And don’t get me started with the crazy logic where Serral wins because he’s good, but Clem wins because Terran is broken. Tell that to Maru who lost 20 in 21 games vs Serral for the last 2 years. Stop calling nerf to Terran and just buff Toss instead. I love how every time somebody wins, the viewers instantly call for nerf and not buffs for the other races.
@@teddanville6996 i agree that clem is pretty obviously the best player itw rn but this new patch is for sure beneficial for terran, this was the first major of the new patch and 6 out of the last 8 were terran tbh clem didnt win because he switched to an inferior race in the last game for whatever reason lmao
@@teddanville6996 I hope you feel good in your cosy terran world. Fact is, that most zerg units got nerfed to the point they are not able to close the gap. Zerg units die before they are able to close the gap and that's a problem. So you understand ultras must reach the bio units so the can attack them, but now they are too slow. Ultras cannot reach the ghosts, and ghosts are cheap enough terran can replace marines with ghosts. So you might consider this as funny, but it isn't. A player requires a huge masochistic attitude to play zerg in such a situation. Look at Dark, he's nowhere no more since the last few balance patches. The balance consul has to terminated, the idiots are worthless.
The fact that you said called it a little soon in game despite being broke and on 0 mining bases against a 6000 resource bank opponent with over 50% of the map taken tells you everything you need to know about the state of the meta at the highest level.
correct. literally 100% of all SC2 players will know what you are talking about despite not revealing which player or which game number. AKA, I'm not even posting a spoiler by outright saying Clem "called it too early" because everyone knows only Terran would possibly have a chance in that scenario. and a pretty good one at that. IMBA race 💯
32:48 interesting note is that the heal only takes place when the animation for upgrading to the stacked supply depot finishes. The middle depot died a fraction of a second before it would have healed, despite having the upgrade land on it
@@heist2556 Failing at everything = win the early game by killing more than 10 workers, reducing the creep, have a perfect macro, but yes, loosing a battle...
@FLKS3 he still failed at everything, 53:10 is where Terran should've lost They overnerfed Ultralisks, that much is obvious, and as far as I'm concerned Scan should be of some cost Serral kept burrowing units left and right to force wasted scans and that happened but Terran had like 5 excess scans at all times possible (wasted 3 scans on a hunting a single Infestor for example and still had more)
@@FLKS3 So he did basically the same thing that a terran does every single game in the early game. After that he lost major fights allowing massive fungals that should have instantly ended the game and runbys AND nydus yet still stayed in the game because assaulting the terran base is impossible without catastrophic losses forcing zerg to starve them out in a 20+ minute game. Especially now when both Hydra and Ultra got their speed nerfed.
I don't know man, I think this series says a lot about the balance of the game. One side just getting pummelled the entire time with so few reliable options, and those reliable options are easily taken out, and incredibly punishing to lose. Pretty unfun to watch one side always bullying everyone else.
It’s a Clem thing. He’s so in your face with his multitasking and momentum that it feels like Serral is constantly backed up against a wall. But against anyone else, Serral wipes the floor against them so I hardly think this is due to balance but individual player skill.
@@filosoper This is really true. It hurts my zergy heart, but Clem is his game nemesis. Like Serral said during the tourny, if he goes a few drones down early in a game against Clem, he almost always loses. Clem the better player at this point in time.
It's hard to even watch a Zerg try to play late game against a Terran that has been slightly behind for most of the game. Actually winning is impossible unless you don't get to late game or use some cheesy trick to get FAR ahead only the barely win in the end.
@@OnigoroshiZero I wouldn't say impossible, but very difficult for sure. The most successful strat I've seen for Zerg in the very late game is using late game swarmhosts to value trade if the game starts to get into a sort of stalemate position where they have map control, but attacking in with actual units is just too inefficient. The strong turtle army from terran with ghosts/libs/tanks isn't nearly as good at attacking and dealing with swarmhosts as the mid-game marine-based compositions, so it looked like the Swarmhosts could effectively pressure their bases/army over time to keep the Terran from building up a bank and force them out of their defensive position. Seeing Rogue play that way in the late game against a top Terran player (I believe it was Clem?) and winning before the current patch kind of set the idea for me as something that should probably be tried more at the top level. It's also something I think I've seen maybe Uthermal or someone do before as well against a ladder opponent a long time ago. Part of the problem is that the Zerg composition with ling/bane/hydra, like any mid-game composition, just kind of falls off in its ability to trade effectively late game, and Ghosts counter brood lords and ultras a bit too effectively - though with the nerf to Ghosts, perhaps Brood Lords will eventually work their way back into the meta for late game as well, as Thors and vikings are both of fairly limited effectiveness in the face of neural and P-bomb, though I don't think that's quite as likely. It's hard, during the game, to switch mindsets and go into a composition that's really oriented towards breaking the stalemate and forcing the Terran to step out, rather than just making more and continuing to try to "kill them before they get there" when they're actually already "there" and the attacks are basically just throwing resources away. This goes for all 3 races really: -Terran in TvP in general barring a few players not adding ghosts/libs for too long or throwing their advantage by dropping unnecessarily after establishing one and having it get caught, and sometimes doing the same in TvZ. Lots of games that get lost could have been one if the player consolidated their army and made a push or advanced their tech instead of continuing to drop when they've already secured the advantage. - Protoss vs Liberators not making tempests; PvZ meta is usually already to play for the late game, though you do see Maxpax and Hero not throw down the stargates/fleet beacon when he really should sometimes. - Zerg vs both Protoss and Terran tends to get kind of stuck on the hydra/ling/bane or ravagers and often delay late game transitions too long. Eg: not making a spire after seeing fleet beacon, continuously attacking with ling/bane/Hydra/Ultra vs Terran even after they've solidly fortified their bases, etc...
The constant marine/marauder quitting/fighting with near infinite healing and scans and the option to flight away instantly in the medivac is so annoying. Also with the nerf to ultras you have a basic unit as hard counter of a end game unit. Mealwhile the ground control with liberators, tanks and snipes agains units that usually needs to be in cc to fight. Also friendly reminder to the nerf to the fungal growth and the unfixed bug of the brood lords...
@@notacpu5321 your argument is so mature. I'm not zerg, i'm a very old game designer and I like asymmetrical but balanced fights. I'm pointing facts. Also, please watch the Reynor (T) vs Clem (Z) before the last patch
Just give zerglings ability to shoot up lmao. Imagine how cooked up that would be. Realistically though, roaches could shoot up with reduced damage. The lack of Z anti-air is what's causing most of these issues, most positioning mistake T makes is effectively eliminated by medivacs.
Winter. I dont know why but you're literally the only person who doesnt annoy me when you ask for likes. Its usually so irritating. But props to you, i'll drop a like
Why is that hard to understand? You know that if you got a Diamond 1 Player and gave him a free ramping up income advantage throughout all the game , they would still not beat most GM players. Its because there are other factors to the game other than Income. Zerg always has higher income than Terran too, so if your statement made sense, then Terran was never supposed to win against Zerg ever, nor would Protoss be allowed to do that.
Chill. Clem got the better of him in their last encounters. This happened in the past... Serral will come back. In my opinion Serral is still the best player. In 2024, he only lost to Clem and once to Maru in an insignificant game, besting him later in the same tournament. Clem loses to many more opponents, although he is the only one to stand between Serral and complete dominance over the SC2 scene. If it wasn't for Clem, Serral would have won every single tournament he entered this year.
I`ll be honest, I never was a fan of RTS, up to the moment I found this channel, these matches and your commentary made me get into the genre, even though I know I suck on it lmao.
I really like that you're showing games from the beginning now :D, I didn't mind the fast forward you used the first 90-120 secs on a couple of games before this one though :)
!! possible spoilers in my post below !! Maybe Clem was just better here, but I got a nagging feeling with each patch we are nearer and nearer to TerranCraft. A small nerf/small buff here , a small nerf/ buff there , but when it all comes together it alwys feels Terrans with each patch get a bit more in the areas that really matter . Imagine if there werent even this Ghost nerf, and without the community outcry there wouldnt be....
at this level a small advantage will result in very lopsided results. This is the first game i've really watched on the new patch and its disgusting. HOW CAN TERRAN KITE forever AN ULTRA WITH THE SPEED UPGRADE? thats freaking insane.
Yea wtf did they did to ultras? Revert that crap, it's just bad, no Not even anything else, just revert the speed nerf, may zerg have at least some option (even tho it will be sniped to death)
@@firestarter000001 don't forget T also get straight up buffs with tradeoffs. e.g., the fucking insta-repair supply drop - really? make T walls, the best walls in the game, EVEN stronger? make orbitals even better? why was rthat even a consideration???? sry, I'm just really pissed off at the situation. made me switch from watching SC2 daily to watching BW or even WC3 i stead, with 1 SC2 game a month tops.
I've seen enough. Even with the clone fix in the tourny, Terran is just way too OP. Too many tools with high floors and Zerg has no recourse to counter them without flawless micro and early all-in.
51:10 Omg; this is the first time that I get to see the Hydralisk gimmick being somewhat useful. It allowed a faster passage through the Liberator kill zone, and (arguably) resulted in a better trade.
Something interesting to do would to be to add the rankings of the players beside their names like how they do in sports like football, I know the rankings move a lot especially when replays are involved though even the rankings for who is favored or not could make it a lot easier or at least easier to get invested in games
@@shadowpriest2574 what are you bronze? ultra to slow and gets kited by bio. hive tech kited by a T1 and T1.5 units broodlord dont fire at full speed at max range. imagine if colo or tanks/thors did that....attacking slower for no reason other then being max range. hydra nurf and given a joke of a ability that we will see go away very soon because its pointless you dont move far enough to get out of the way of anything nor does it last long enough to be aggressive with. there will never be a fight that zerg uses that crap and the other person goes yeah if that 0.70 sec move was the reason i lost... 25 less minerals for a hatch is so irrelevant. they did that so T and P cant block your hatchery AS FAST. so they just send it earlier pointless change still block it.. queen nurf. cost kills zerg early game because we dont have any anti air. so now it takes longer and cost more to get the only thing to stop any kind of air attack early game. spore is worthless 15 dmg to 20 oh wow. marines do more dmg but whatever. oh and i have to build a evo just to make that garbage spore early, over the fear of air coming and it puts us farther behind because zerg is already the slowest to get workers out.. slower to get out and then lose a worker every time i need a building or defense anything. this patch is a joke and i wanna play the game but as a zerg player this is not fun to play. i have to do everything 3X harder and still lose to late game T and P.
@@matiashamalainen7965 Right, but less Queens is a bit deceptive here as the actual difference only starts making a change by the 8th or 10th queen, not the first 5-6 queens where the only difference is about 75 minerals.
@@shadowpriest2574 The thing is that it makes those queens be later because the economy is slower at the start of the game. It has some impact against the early harassment.
I would love to see changes done to bio, after all these years. It's such an unfair style of play... Terran just gets to have every unit in their roster be viable (almost every), and the few that aren't get constant random changes in the patches to try and make them good for no reason. Meanwhile zerg and protoss out here catching random nonsensical nerfs every time... SC2 is a great spectator game, but i'm not gonna lie, i really don't like watching TvP nor TvZ anymore. Ghosts nuke half the protoss army/snipe the entirety of the zerg core.... Bio is super mobile and cost effective, basically impossible to punish medivacs for zerg... Widow mines threaten the existence of every mineral line by just existing... The airspace is so unfairly in favor of liberators/medivacs, locking large groups of units in defense like neither zerg nor protoss can... But it's all good, cause hydras got a weird ability now (losing some speed for it), and ultras push friendly units (also lost speed for that). I apologise to whoever reads this rant, i was annoyed and wanted to express it... It's a shame not being able to enjoy sc2, i've been watching competitive sc2 since i was 17 and am now almost 26, it's kind of my favorite sport in the same way others like to watch football or basketball or whatever, and it feels like my favorite sport is being shit on by a balance council that is clearly biased, or at the very least clueless. Thanks winter for still providing great casts for the fans, you've been making my days a little bit better for almost a decade now :)
@WinterStarcraft you and T90 Official are without a doubt the best esport commentators in the world. It's not even close. How you manage to make something both informative and entertaining without any other co-caster is a testament to your skill in casting. Keep up the great work mate.
Takeaway....nerf Terran bio. It needs to be overhauled somehow. I don't understand how marines are literally the counter to every single Zerg unit. It sucks and needs to be changed. A few things I suggest... Stim movement speed lowered (so banelings with speed upgrade on creep can't just be kited forever) Stim decreases HP more than it currently does (1.5x-2x more HP loss per stim) Medivac energy drains much faster healing so medivacs can't just heal forever, forcing engagements to be shorter before needing to retreat for energy I think any of those options would be ideal. I personally think the movement speed of stimmed marines would be the best option to nerf.
I think why marines or Terran bio is simply broken is: Their size is small so you can clamp like 20 units in small ball that fires at the same time and fast.. the dmg output is just ridiculous + the medivacs. It is straight up super cost-effective. Fast walk/run speed, possibility to pick up and boost away. Terran army just can punish and flee. Zerg cant chase or directly attack either. Sad
I think they should probably remove combat shield and add an ability to the Liberator to shock/stun IMO But noticed one more thing - g3 Terran wasted about 20 scans and still had enough, so perhaps a scan energy nerf could work 🤔
@@OnigoroshiZero All 3 races have cheat-like units and abilities. Protoss can teleport and spawn in units on the other side of the map, Zerg can spawn units on the other side of the map too, with Nydus Worm, they also have Queens which in most scenarios guarantee map vision if not outright map control. The only thing that can be described as cheat-like mechanic is the Scan ability, everything else is fairly straightforward , even the Ghost. Also, you understan that Terran is that good because its in the hands of a player like Clem, right? Most cant control the units to his lvl and most are nowhere near as aggresive as he is with the race.
IMO terran games just aren't fun to watch anymore when 90% of the set is kiting with marines, ghosts and medivacs... mechanically impressive sure, but the "S" in RTS is lacking.
G1 was insane to see Serral throw almost every tech at Clem and do exactly nothing because ghosts just counter EVERYTHING. Shit to watch, zero strategy from the Terran side.
That was unwatchable. Serral got off multiple game-ending fungals due to critical mistakes by clem in a game and he just jukes it. ridiculous. Also that ultralisk kiting was f-ing ridiculous - that should not even be a thing! This is easily the lowest point of this game.
We've reached the point were we basically don't even need to watch the games to know who wins. If it is T vs Not-Serral: Terran Wins. And if it is the best Terran (Clem) vs the best non-terran, Terran wins again. Wow, absolutly amazing. This game is no longer about: Who is the best? But: Who is playing Terran. What did the last patch do? It nerfed the Ultra, the Queen and the Hydra. Like - seriously? It's getting ridicilous. I seriously wonder if the balance councel is betting tons of money on which race wins the next tournaments. They don't even try to pretend to make a balanced game any longer.
the patch made it worse. but terran is broken since day one. and everyone was like omg omg Marine King Prime, Byun, Maru, TY, Inno, MVP, Bomber, these are gods.... more like Gods of abusing imbalance. finally the majority of players sees it.
@@benismann Yes. And the Queen? Sure, it was very strong - but it was the ONLY anti-air unit that Zerg had. By making them more expensive, Zerg has automatically a few drones less than previously. Previously, T. needed to actually kill some Drones with Reaper/Banshee whatever that Zerg has a loss. Now Terran can kill 0 drones and Zerg is STILL suffering, because Zerg needs to build several queens. Basically Zerg lost 3 drones early game, just because the Queen got more expensive.
@@wedgeantilles8575 no the queen I at least see the reason to nerf. Unlike with hydras and ultras, which weren't even that good (hydra is the only other ground-to-air unit so it was at least somewhat used and not just a lurker egg with movement)
@@benismann By itself, I agree. Yes, the Queen was very strong. The problem is: The queen is without alternative. Zerg needs to make so many of them, because they are the only answer to everything Terran throws at them. Reaper, Hellions, Banshee. Zerg is completly dependend on them for quite a long time. And they can NEVER destroy a Terran - all they can do is keep the Terran at bay. If the Terran micros well, the Queens will never kill the reaper, never kill the banshees. And the hellions will only get destroyed if the T. decideds to commit. So is the queen too strong? No, because all she manages to do is keeping Zerg in the game. And if you want to nerf her - which would be fine - Zerg would need replacement stuff. Hydra as Tier 1 unit like in Starcraft 1 for example. That you could defend against Terran with the Hydra. Then they could nerf the queen.
Well... that was sad. Zerg gutted out on the last patch. Feels like Serral is running after faster units and could never get to fight them. Dont even feel like watching the last game, it feels kind of agonizing...
zerg has speed upgrades on basically all but spellcasters and air units, shouldn't that mean that those units are fast? apparently not, especially not the ultra
Expectation: Zerg is the race of fast, cheap units that suck in combat because they can avoid engagements until it's favorable. Terran is the race of powerful, slow units that are good at defensive fortifications and strategic positioning. Reality: Zerg is the race of cheap units that suck at combat. Terran is the race of fast, powerful units that are good at everything.
@@davehollis5816 this is exactly the gist of it. I don't even care how much they tweak the numbers, T has everything which goes against even the most basic rules of balance design.
The Ultra nerfs are, as expected, much more devastating than they seemed on paper(to non Zerg players that is). Moreover the Queen nerf for hatchery buff, again as expected, turns out to be a much larger deal than it seems. Funny how the 2 nerfs that Terran and Protoss players glossed over so much when the patch was announced prove to be the most detrimental. Also, Ghost nerf? What Ghost nerf? Its functionality is still the same! It's still the most broken unit in the game, a spell caster that actually does good auto attack damage and is quite tanky too. Oh and it can also hit air units. The nerf to 3 supply cost doesn't really change all that much because Ghosts are so strong they don't need the other units to do the damage. They are both the support and the carry borrowing from MOBAs. You can have less of them(or less of everything else), sure, but they still counter literally every Protoss unit(emp removing shields) and all mid and late tier Zerg units. Even Banelings, their supposed counter, don't actually work all that well after the Baneling nerfs.
This patch is so bad that it retroactively made me dislike the previous balance patch or three. Serral and Clem are comparably skilled players but skewed toward their race. Serral more macro and strategy while Clem more micro and rapid tactical deployment. Zerg just doesn't have any good answers to Terran capabilities while Terran has multiple answers to everything. Always been that way, but with Serral meeting his match, it's just painfully blatant. Ultra speed nerf and supply drop buff both need to be reverted. The mineral swap between queens and hatcheries should likely be reverted. Mutas need to cost at least 25 less gas and Hydra range upgrade needs at least another +1 air range so Zerg has some air capabilities in the mid game. Ghost snipe and EMP are catch-all abilities against Zerg and Protoss respectively. EMP shield damage needs to cap out at snipe levels of damage, distributed evenly over all Protoss units hit. Slowing the EMP projectile won't do anything for slow Protoss units. Still won't fix the absurd utility of the Ghost, but Terran players will mutiny if you do and the only real out is a complete balance overhaul of the game. The only way to do that is if all tournaments started using the same balance mod by a different balance team. Moving EMP to the Raven will actually be worse for Protoss because you'd get Interference Matrix, Auto-Turret and EMP on the same flying unit. Shield Battery Overcharge sucks, but it needs to return and be on a shared cooldown with Energy Overcharge. Maybe that will stabilize Protoss early game enough that someone who cares about that race can fix them. Reducing the Stalker train time by 3 seconds to prevent Protoss dying from Marauder all-ins every time is an admission of how bad it is without fixing anything. Yes, I'm ranting into the void just so I don't have to think it anymore.
The queen was nerfed because it was too good at allowing the Zerg to survive. The result is that Zerg has absolutely no anti air to deal with medivacs and liberators and needs to rush vipers every game to deal with medivac harass. The spore crawler changes are useless. It got a midgrade but you still need to sacrifice a drone to get one so they're a joke for early game defense when drones are most critical. The Ultra changes are the most braindead thing I've ever seen. Double nerfs so now Terran can kite them off creep and they're more vulnerable to splash damage. They were already never played and now they're even worse somehow. The ghost nerf doesn't even matter because Zerg can't even get to late game anymore I've been watching professional starcraft II since 2018 and the only time I've felt this level of Apathy was when mass infested marine was the meta. These are two of the best players out there and I never felt like Serral had a chance of winning the series without Clem making a huge blunder.
Half the medivac energy regen. They have an upgrade for that anyways, why do other races units HAVE to have upgrades to work at all (colossi, any zerg unit with a speed upgrade, the only exception is RAVEN which is why it's never used ig) while terran units are just good by default and get better with upgrades?
@@benismann True, however: "why do other races units HAVE to have upgrades to work at all (colossi, any zerg unit with a speed upgrade, the only exception is RAVEN which is why it's never used ig) while terran units are just good by default and get better with upgrades?" This was your statement. Have you ever seen anyone consistently push with unupgraded marines? No? Well, then they are in the same field as those other units. Yes they are still good but Stim Marine is an entirely different unit compared to Unstimmed marine.
Also remember that the Terran council got very pissy about being "forced" to push it through despite their "vision" (which presumably is a mono-race game of nothing but TvT where we never have to deal with those pesky zergs and tosses).
Hahahahaha winter your last couple of casts have just been so much fun Just listening to you playing out the marines being trapped and making it hilarious So good This is my kind of humour, I hope the comments about people hating on the state of the game doesn't shift your flow away from you just having fun and telling stories Love this, thank you for being you and letting all us other nerds keep imagining ❤️
@@CamFamX2you sound like Terran. I skip only to see who wins. The game fkn sucks and the data shows. It's not even a pro game at the level it used to be.
Pretty bad balance, mm is the only thing you need, they kill everything. Really , not even ultras are a counter..?. They are looking to close the shop with this patches.
The balance council is a complete joke. Terran has been OP for a decade at this point and has never gotten a true nerf. Zerg units cannot counter any terran units reliably yet literally every terran unit hard counters zerg units. Complete joke
i feel like ghosts shouldnt be able to snipe air units. would make them less oppressive against zerg while still maintaining their strength against zerg ground units. also i dont think the ultra needed both nerfs to its size and speed. speed nerf should probably be reverted but maybe the size increase can stay
the only game Serral won was with the new Rogue-like build as mentioned by Winter 54:57 Winter does mention it's the mass overseer style but the whole build is basically very similar to Rogue's build with better infestor control from Serral
No offense to Clem, but I can't watch him win anymore. I opened the video, skipped to the end, saw he won comfortably, and decided I didn't need to see it happen. If *Serral* is getting his ass soundly kicked and it's not a real contest, terran is too strong. I'll keep watching good games though
thats how I feel too, I just look at who wins the series to decide whether its worth watching. You can only watch Terran stomp everyone so much before its boring, and when they don't win its "what cheese did the other player sucker punch him with" cause it wasn't skill that won. You can't outskill that much raw overpoweredness.
@@JollyGreenWizard Yes. This is how i am doing it too. I am sorry but i am not going to waste a hour of time, to watch same and same thing. With this patch and Clem, this matchup is boring. Its crazy how Terran council Effed up...
Winter, I must say that out of all of the professional SC2 casters you are by far... the most.
we love you winterbroooo, i never played this expansion but always a pleasure to listen to you
Of all professional SC2 casters, Winter is certainly… one of them.
He really is one of the most SC2 Casters out there
Rated number one…..by Winter
This comment is so winter 😂
Waiting patiently for the video where Winter asks Jimmy for the number, jimmy walks up and tells him, and then Winter scolds jimmy for appearing on camera before proceeding with the cast as normal
Oh yeah I member that one time!
If you look closely, you can actually see Jimmy in the face cam at some point almost every cast.
@@rogirek3362spiderman meme
I'm so happy this guy is still making starcraft 2 videos. I used to visit my grandmother on the weekends to marathon like a weeks worth content. She played a disgusting amount of Starcraft 1 and 2 in the day.
Videos are still high quality I see.
Your grandmother played sc2 that is so cool lol😂
@@silverpro8356Till she Zerg rushes yo ass on Sc1 🤣🤣
The ghost nerf played out like we thought it would, you get about ~15 or so endgame instead of 20+
"First, a quick word to our sponsors... you." Got me right in the feels. So glad we can keep you sponsorship-free for these match replays.
Don't worry guys, we nerfed ghosts ! Still replaces marines and marauders as a fighting unit against ling/bane while being a lethal spellcaster against lurkers, ultras and vipers
The problem is that they overnerfed Ultra IMO
G1 showed it as Serral just made 11 and no more 🤔
Having him talking about how they nerfed ultra speed so they are borderline useless against a skilled terran player off creep as they were getting murdered without even getting a single hit in was depressing.
@@LazyMonkey24 They seriously had the gall to nerf Ultra after adjusting ghost supply cost.
you forgot to mention that ghost has 100 life and no Light tag , so it takes like 9 bane hits to kill. which makes ghost a tank unit as well. Wonderfully balanced i would say
@@LazyMonkey24 It's not only the ultras, most zerg units got made worthless since they cannot close the gap. Bains not enough health, they get killed before they arrive. Infesters vision reduced. Ultras speed reduced. Brute lords damage reduced and still sluggish slow like ever. And now the queens cost more so the early zerg game is guaranteed fu.ked up.
Terran units were made strong because they're supposed to be slow and defensive. Stim/Medivacs make them the fastest and most nimble units in the game. They get to be super strong AND fast AND long range AND they can fly.
Terran bio is just too fucking strong and always has been.
You forgot AND they can heal... indefinitely.
they also slow the enemy now with marauders. This is why Terrans don't really use the rest of their lineup because MMM is just the answer for everything. IF it's not then you're not micro-ing hard enough.
Yeah in basic game design you get two out of health, speed, and dps. If it's all 3 it's usually a boss fight. Bio somehow has all of them. They also have density, they're some of the smallest sized units so they can put out ridiculous damage per square inch
I think the real issue is with Protoss and Zerg tbh. Both of them have mechanics that make them difficult if not impossible to balance, creep spread for Zerg and warp gates for Protoss.
Like think about it. If you make Zerg units able to evenly fight bio off creep, then they're going to pretty easily crush it with the additional mobility and queen support on creep. So you gotta try and find a middle ground where Zerg will basically always be inefficient on offense, but be strong enough on defense to make up for it. Even if you manage that, the matchup is still fundamentally boring because the Terran will try to avoid any risky attacks to avoid fighting on creep, and the Zerg doesn't want to attack at all as their units are better on defense! It sucks!
Protoss arguably has it even worse. If you can instantly warp in 30 supply of extra Gateway units anywhere on the map, then Protoss armies *must* be fundamentally worse at max supply than their Terran and Zerg counterparts. Otherwise Protoss can trivially win any vaguely close fight by reinforcing the moment they start losing units. And that isn't even factoring in the flexibility of being to warp in those units as a counterattack instead. So we end up with a race whose basic units are just bad, and will lose head to head with both other races in both cost and supply efficiency. As a result, Protoss is incredibly fragile - if they ever lose too many Stargate and Robotics facility units, they'll probably never recover as Gateway units on their own will never be powerful enough. But the flexibility and reinforcing power of warp gates is too much to ignore in favor of building like 10 Stargates or something.
The worst thing Terran has is the mule, which definitely causes issues with letting Terrans field a larger army than the other races, but because its always available it doesn't force the same sort of situational penalties onto Terran units that Zerg and Protoss are constantly fighting against. Still kind of a dumb mechanic, but it's at least possible to balance in ways that don't make the game incredibly boring.
@@hangover89Yea that's right. It's why I stopped playing...and they keep getting buffed.
Came for the Games stayed for the queen diatribes
Sounds like you have a nanomuscular swell
Came for the queen diatribes. Stayed for the queen diatribes. Goes to the PvT games in case the bonus game has queen diatribes.
@@IRdatank u ok dude? You gotta get out of that basement more often...
@@IRdatank Came for the Brenda. Got off creep for the Susan.
(You can't explain that)
For Zerg catharsis, 14:15 to see two ghosts simultaneously taken down by a single Ultra swipe
you mean the 2 ghost that already mowed down his army and had 30 health left each? you speak as though they were full health bozo
@@mikeiscoo2 hey, zergs take their dopamine wherever they can get it.
bozo
yea for zerg catharsis watch only that bit and none of the rest of the cast
It was pretty depressing to watch this live and seeing the top 8 basically being 6 Terran, Serral and Nightmare.
It was fun having Rex read out some of my comments though since I was one of the few English speaking commenters.
Even as a Terran enjoyer, I want to see Protoss just straight up buffed somehow.
Not a buff and compensatory nerf either.
@ryanhefner2011 I think most SC2 fans agree that Protoss needs a buff specifically for the PvT match-up.
Well the best TvT player will be the champion. Watching it is boring as hell though.
Well, that happens when the balance council put serious money on the question: Which race will win the next tournaments.
@@bineshchand3909 PvZ is bad too. All too often in PvT and PvZ Protoss just... falls over and loses.
The amount of Terran different harassment choices, drops, liberators, banshees... and that Terran can control points with siege tanks... hmmm... bring back Infested Terran, and give Zerg more options :)
and all of this is possible because of siege tanks being so op that like 2-3 tanks can defend all early game harassment with ease. make the siege tank not instant hit but more like ravagers and suddenly terran wont be as op as they are now. just imagine, they now have to put effort into defence rather than just full on harassment and attacks.
They might as well rename siege tanks to CIWS tanks since they are so useful for defense and rarely used for actual sieging.
also give back original swarm host with auto rally points ^_^
@@thedeadbabynah. The HotS Swarm Hosts were even more boring and worse than Ghosts.
@@thedeadbaby no way, the swarm host is one of the worst designed units in the game, and I'm saying this as mainly a Z player.
The ultra mega nerf is ridiculous. What a stupid idea !!! So now Terran who could already lift their bio up instantly, heal their soldier and be hyper mobile with their medivac, can also kite Ultralisks indefinitely ???!!!
If you are specifically Clem or dedicating to it, yeah I guess.
They still derp around, because of their size less ultras can be in the same space bumping into things and each other, really who had the idea of increasing ultra size?
@@Zergling.honestly I don’t mind the size increase to balance the push priority (the whole reason they got shrunk in the first place) but the speed DECREASE??? Terrible idea
@@stubbornviking8548 Thats why i genuinely think they did not test all the ultras changes together, the push priority + the speed was tested but i think all 3 together where not and now it made all this a ultra nerf in my opinion, at best a sidegrade but i really think ultras got a nerf, ironic since ghost got nerfed too, this terran council is working good.
THE SCORE
_Terran Must Win Council_ vs _My Desire to Watch SC2_
3 - 1
ggs, not even close! Terran Must Win Council looks unbeatable, My Desire to Watch SC2 doesn’t stand a chance!
Terran Council broke the game
Yep. My desires to watch Clem games are pretty much zero.
@@SVKFrankenstein kamo nazdaar 💪🏿
@@ponozkas.r.o7320 ahoooj
Bg Terran council, you've won. Playing against terran is boring, watching them broken like this is even worst.
This gonna be a banger
Congrats to the real winner: Terran Balance Council.
Wahhhh wahhhhhhh
It was nice of you to wear your suit jacket and nice Bob Ross shirt for such an important match on this new patch, don't think we didn't notice.
Game 1 Clem already kite Ultras without concussive shells is just wild
Terran Council weakened Ultra by making it much slower
@@hia5235 And bigger. Double nerfed ultra for a marginal buff.
Well maybe tahts what for the ultras speed upgrade was nerfed....
@@matiashamalainen7965 And the buff , come to think of it, seems much more relevant to lower level players. The best of the best have a much higher chance to micro the units, making the buff not that much relevant.
you do know, that ultras cannot be slowed, stunned, mind controlled, right...?
tbh watching homestory cup it was pretty clear that terran is just waaay too good now. All PvT games was over within 7 mins. It feels like Terran can fuck up things and still easily recover where if P or Z does so they normally just lose outright.
Something needs to happen, SC2 is just not fun anymore.
Amen. The game's balance was fine about 12 months ago but the last 2 patches literally killed zerg and only further nerfed protoss. Absolute joke.
So Serral racking up 1.5 million dollar worth of prize money playing ZergCraft 2 for 5,6 years straight and now as soon as Terran win 1 world champion and a few small tournaments, you call for Terran nerf? Absolutely ridiculous. And don’t get me started with the crazy logic where Serral wins because he’s good, but Clem wins because Terran is broken. Tell that to Maru who lost 20 in 21 games vs Serral for the last 2 years. Stop calling nerf to Terran and just buff Toss instead. I love how every time somebody wins, the viewers instantly call for nerf and not buffs for the other races.
@@teddanville6996 facts, the hypocrisy is real XD
@@teddanville6996 i agree that clem is pretty obviously the best player itw rn but this new patch is for sure beneficial for terran,
this was the first major of the new patch and 6 out of the last 8 were terran
tbh clem didnt win because he switched to an inferior race in the last game for whatever reason lmao
@@teddanville6996 I hope you feel good in your cosy terran world. Fact is, that most zerg units got nerfed to the point they are not able to close the gap. Zerg units die before they are able to close the gap and that's a problem. So you understand ultras must reach the bio units so the can attack them, but now they are too slow. Ultras cannot reach the ghosts, and ghosts are cheap enough terran can replace marines with ghosts. So you might consider this as funny, but it isn't. A player requires a huge masochistic attitude to play zerg in such a situation. Look at Dark, he's nowhere no more since the last few balance patches. The balance consul has to terminated, the idiots are worthless.
The fact that you said called it a little soon in game despite being broke and on 0 mining bases against a 6000 resource bank opponent with over 50% of the map taken tells you everything you need to know about the state of the meta at the highest level.
correct. literally 100% of all SC2 players will know what you are talking about despite not revealing which player or which game number. AKA, I'm not even posting a spoiler by outright saying Clem "called it too early" because everyone knows only Terran would possibly have a chance in that scenario. and a pretty good one at that. IMBA race 💯
He had the same army supply, still, and is one of the top two players in the world
32:48 interesting note is that the heal only takes place when the animation for upgrading to the stacked supply depot finishes. The middle depot died a fraction of a second before it would have healed, despite having the upgrade land on it
8:31 Serral pulled the medivac to make sure the marines died to the banelings. Damn that's cool!
That was such a cool play using the Viper to pull the Dropship away from the Marines in the 1st game.
Game 3 was ridiculous. Terran can just fail at everything yet still hang on for 20 minutes.
Correct
Calling that “failing at everything” is ridiculous
@@heist2556 Failing at everything = win the early game by killing more than 10 workers, reducing the creep, have a perfect macro, but yes, loosing a battle...
@FLKS3 he still failed at everything, 53:10 is where Terran should've lost
They overnerfed Ultralisks, that much is obvious, and as far as I'm concerned Scan should be of some cost
Serral kept burrowing units left and right to force wasted scans and that happened but Terran had like 5 excess scans at all times possible (wasted 3 scans on a hunting a single Infestor for example and still had more)
@@FLKS3 So he did basically the same thing that a terran does every single game in the early game. After that he lost major fights allowing massive fungals that should have instantly ended the game and runbys AND nydus yet still stayed in the game because assaulting the terran base is impossible without catastrophic losses forcing zerg to starve them out in a 20+ minute game. Especially now when both Hydra and Ultra got their speed nerfed.
No clickbait needed. New Clem vs Serral, I click!
Clem decided to not build widow mines I think he gave himself a bit of a challenge
I don't know man, I think this series says a lot about the balance of the game.
One side just getting pummelled the entire time with so few reliable options, and those reliable options are easily taken out, and incredibly punishing to lose.
Pretty unfun to watch one side always bullying everyone else.
When Serral swept Maru multiple times, no one batted an eye.
It’s a Clem thing. He’s so in your face with his multitasking and momentum that it feels like Serral is constantly backed up against a wall.
But against anyone else, Serral wipes the floor against them so I hardly think this is due to balance but individual player skill.
Clem makes Terran look broken
@@filosoper This is really true. It hurts my zergy heart, but Clem is his game nemesis. Like Serral said during the tourny, if he goes a few drones down early in a game against Clem, he almost always loses. Clem the better player at this point in time.
@@shadowmambax we need reynor to counter clem like the team-up tourney, Reynor beat clem, Serral beat everyone else
52:48 Shark makes guest appearance
ZvT just seems worse than before
It's hard to even watch a Zerg try to play late game against a Terran that has been slightly behind for most of the game. Actually winning is impossible unless you don't get to late game or use some cheesy trick to get FAR ahead only the barely win in the end.
Bring back infested Terran and old brood lords
@@OnigoroshiZero I wouldn't say impossible, but very difficult for sure. The most successful strat I've seen for Zerg in the very late game is using late game swarmhosts to value trade if the game starts to get into a sort of stalemate position where they have map control, but attacking in with actual units is just too inefficient. The strong turtle army from terran with ghosts/libs/tanks isn't nearly as good at attacking and dealing with swarmhosts as the mid-game marine-based compositions, so it looked like the Swarmhosts could effectively pressure their bases/army over time to keep the Terran from building up a bank and force them out of their defensive position.
Seeing Rogue play that way in the late game against a top Terran player (I believe it was Clem?) and winning before the current patch kind of set the idea for me as something that should probably be tried more at the top level.
It's also something I think I've seen maybe Uthermal or someone do before as well against a ladder opponent a long time ago.
Part of the problem is that the Zerg composition with ling/bane/hydra, like any mid-game composition, just kind of falls off in its ability to trade effectively late game, and Ghosts counter brood lords and ultras a bit too effectively - though with the nerf to Ghosts, perhaps Brood Lords will eventually work their way back into the meta for late game as well, as Thors and vikings are both of fairly limited effectiveness in the face of neural and P-bomb, though I don't think that's quite as likely.
It's hard, during the game, to switch mindsets and go into a composition that's really oriented towards breaking the stalemate and forcing the Terran to step out, rather than just making more and continuing to try to "kill them before they get there" when they're actually already "there" and the attacks are basically just throwing resources away.
This goes for all 3 races really:
-Terran in TvP in general barring a few players not adding ghosts/libs for too long or throwing their advantage by dropping unnecessarily after establishing one and having it get caught, and sometimes doing the same in TvZ. Lots of games that get lost could have been one if the player consolidated their army and made a push or advanced their tech instead of continuing to drop when they've already secured the advantage.
- Protoss vs Liberators not making tempests; PvZ meta is usually already to play for the late game, though you do see Maxpax and Hero not throw down the stargates/fleet beacon when he really should sometimes.
- Zerg vs both Protoss and Terran tends to get kind of stuck on the hydra/ling/bane or ravagers and often delay late game transitions too long. Eg: not making a spire after seeing fleet beacon, continuously attacking with ling/bane/Hydra/Ultra vs Terran even after they've solidly fortified their bases, etc...
Serral uncharacteristically lossing a lot of drones in early games!
@@OnigoroshiZero I just feel bad for Zergs. Which is saying a lot. Pretty ridiculous patch decisions
It’s so weird rooting for the plucky underdog….Serral
The constant marine/marauder quitting/fighting with near infinite healing and scans and the option to flight away instantly in the medivac is so annoying. Also with the nerf to ultras you have a basic unit as hard counter of a end game unit. Mealwhile the ground control with liberators, tanks and snipes agains units that usually needs to be in cc to fight. Also friendly reminder to the nerf to the fungal growth and the unfixed bug of the brood lords...
Yes, all of this
Keep whining, zerg
@@notacpu5321 I don’t even play Zerg, normally I go NOD
@@notacpu5321 your argument is so mature. I'm not zerg, i'm a very old game designer and I like asymmetrical but balanced fights. I'm pointing facts. Also, please watch the Reynor (T) vs Clem (Z) before the last patch
@@patatica keep whining, zerg sympathizer
Yes. Let's experiment with Hulkralisk hybrid. A cross of hydra and ultra that can shoot up.
Just give zerglings ability to shoot up lmao. Imagine how cooked up that would be.
Realistically though, roaches could shoot up with reduced damage. The lack of Z anti-air is what's causing most of these issues, most positioning mistake T makes is effectively eliminated by medivacs.
Serral yanking the medivac so banelings could hit marines before pickup was next level.
EEEAAAUGHHHHH!!! "Honey what is it?" "SPACE SHARK!!!!!!"
Winter. I dont know why but you're literally the only person who doesnt annoy me when you ask for likes. Its usually so irritating. But props to you, i'll drop a like
Winter and PiG need to take over the balance council.
Winter is so funny. I wish he casted more mainstream sports
I guess he's not "Professional" enough for them...
How can Serral have the income advantage the entire game and still have no answer to anything? Seems busted to me.
Why is that hard to understand? You know that if you got a Diamond 1 Player and gave him a free ramping up income advantage throughout all the game , they would still not beat most GM players.
Its because there are other factors to the game other than Income. Zerg always has higher income than Terran too, so if your statement made sense, then Terran was never supposed to win against Zerg ever, nor would Protoss be allowed to do that.
Because Terran has a higher skillcap with all the micro. Balance council sucks and is making the game unwatchable.
Because Zerg always had stronger base expansion and thus naturally have better income
Chill. Clem got the better of him in their last encounters. This happened in the past... Serral will come back.
In my opinion Serral is still the best player. In 2024, he only lost to Clem and once to Maru in an insignificant game, besting him later in the same tournament.
Clem loses to many more opponents, although he is the only one to stand between Serral and complete dominance over the SC2 scene.
If it wasn't for Clem, Serral would have won every single tournament he entered this year.
@@marcelbenner993 I sure hope so, because games where he pushes Clem are the best games.
I`ll be honest, I never was a fan of RTS, up to the moment I found this channel, these matches and your commentary made me get into the genre, even though I know I suck on it lmao.
I really like that you're showing games from the beginning now :D, I didn't mind the fast forward you used the first 90-120 secs on a couple of games before this one though :)
its almost like the terran balance council isnt doing enough nerfs to terran
Ughhhhhh ... what an understatement 😉😉😉
@@aquaden8344 almost? they almost smoked the wrong weed.
!! possible spoilers in my post below !!
Maybe Clem was just better here, but I got a nagging feeling with each patch we are nearer and nearer to TerranCraft. A small nerf/small buff here , a small nerf/ buff there , but when it all comes together it alwys feels Terrans with each patch get a bit more in the areas that really matter . Imagine if there werent even this Ghost nerf, and without the community outcry there wouldnt be....
Soon space of empires 1 😂😂😂
at this level a small advantage will result in very lopsided results. This is the first game i've really watched on the new patch and its disgusting. HOW CAN TERRAN KITE forever AN ULTRA WITH THE SPEED UPGRADE? thats freaking insane.
Yea wtf did they did to ultras? Revert that crap, it's just bad, no
Not even anything else, just revert the speed nerf, may zerg have at least some option (even tho it will be sniped to death)
@@firestarter000001 don't forget T also get straight up buffs with tradeoffs. e.g., the fucking insta-repair supply drop - really? make T walls, the best walls in the game, EVEN stronger? make orbitals even better? why was rthat even a consideration????
sry, I'm just really pissed off at the situation. made me switch from watching SC2 daily to watching BW or even WC3 i stead, with 1 SC2 game a month tops.
I've seen enough.
Even with the clone fix in the tourny, Terran is just way too OP.
Too many tools with high floors and Zerg has no recourse to counter them without flawless micro and early all-in.
51:10 Omg; this is the first time that I get to see the Hydralisk gimmick being somewhat useful. It allowed a faster passage through the Liberator kill zone, and (arguably) resulted in a better trade.
Ive said it and i will say it again: Winter has become the best Starcraft 2 Caster! He should cast all the big tournaments!
Brenda and Susan are more famous canon heroes of the Zerg than Kerrigan by now!
Say what you will about Winter, but out of all the SC2 casters that have ever existed, Winter is certainly one of them.
"were on whispers of gold. And no, im not talking about your ladder career" i had a mouthful of food i almost spit out lmao
Finally! Serral is back!
I admit, I liked this video for SPACE SHARK!!!! I am not ashamed. :)
Something interesting to do would to be to add the rankings of the players beside their names like how they do in sports like football, I know the rankings move a lot especially when replays are involved though even the rankings for who is favored or not could make it a lot easier or at least easier to get invested in games
Nerfing the only usefull unit in early game for zerg really made it unplayable vs terran and protoss
You rly think that the...what? 100 more resources or so in the early game made a big enough difference?
@@shadowpriest2574 what are you bronze?
ultra to slow and gets kited by bio. hive tech kited by a T1 and T1.5 units
broodlord dont fire at full speed at max range.
imagine if colo or tanks/thors did that....attacking slower for no reason other then being max range.
hydra nurf and given a joke of a ability that we will see go away very soon
because its pointless you dont move far enough to get out of the way of anything nor does it last long enough to be aggressive with. there will never be a fight that zerg uses that crap and the other person goes yeah if that 0.70 sec move was the reason i lost...
25 less minerals for a hatch is so irrelevant. they did that so T and P cant block your hatchery AS FAST. so they just send it earlier pointless change still block it..
queen nurf. cost kills zerg early game because we dont have any anti air. so now it takes longer and cost more to get the only thing to stop any kind of air attack early game.
spore is worthless 15 dmg to 20 oh wow. marines do more dmg but whatever. oh and i have to build a evo just to make that garbage spore early, over the fear of air coming and it puts us farther behind because zerg is already the slowest to get workers out.. slower to get out and then lose a worker every time i need a building or defense anything.
this patch is a joke and i wanna play the game but as a zerg player this is not fun to play. i have to do everything 3X harder and still lose to late game T and P.
@@shadowpriest2574 Less queens translates directly to more dead drones in the early game.
@@matiashamalainen7965 Right, but less Queens is a bit deceptive here as the actual difference only starts making a change by the 8th or 10th queen, not the first 5-6 queens where the only difference is about 75 minerals.
@@shadowpriest2574 The thing is that it makes those queens be later because the economy is slower at the start of the game. It has some impact against the early harassment.
Petition to call lunge ability squirm or perhaps wriggle
The only time I've seen Clem show any weakness in TvZ this year was against mutas
I would love to see changes done to bio, after all these years. It's such an unfair style of play... Terran just gets to have every unit in their roster be viable (almost every), and the few that aren't get constant random changes in the patches to try and make them good for no reason. Meanwhile zerg and protoss out here catching random nonsensical nerfs every time... SC2 is a great spectator game, but i'm not gonna lie, i really don't like watching TvP nor TvZ anymore. Ghosts nuke half the protoss army/snipe the entirety of the zerg core.... Bio is super mobile and cost effective, basically impossible to punish medivacs for zerg... Widow mines threaten the existence of every mineral line by just existing... The airspace is so unfairly in favor of liberators/medivacs, locking large groups of units in defense like neither zerg nor protoss can... But it's all good, cause hydras got a weird ability now (losing some speed for it), and ultras push friendly units (also lost speed for that).
I apologise to whoever reads this rant, i was annoyed and wanted to express it... It's a shame not being able to enjoy sc2, i've been watching competitive sc2 since i was 17 and am now almost 26, it's kind of my favorite sport in the same way others like to watch football or basketball or whatever, and it feels like my favorite sport is being shit on by a balance council that is clearly biased, or at the very least clueless.
Thanks winter for still providing great casts for the fans, you've been making my days a little bit better for almost a decade now :)
Wow I got so distracted by all the bitching comments
ITS BEEN SO LONG SINCE IVE SEEN SERRAL AND IM SO EXCITED WINTER
@WinterStarcraft you and T90 Official are without a doubt the best esport commentators in the world. It's not even close. How you manage to make something both informative and entertaining without any other co-caster is a testament to your skill in casting. Keep up the great work mate.
looks like zerg has been nerved to a point that even serral cant compete anymore ... what a joke lol
Takeaway....nerf Terran bio. It needs to be overhauled somehow. I don't understand how marines are literally the counter to every single Zerg unit. It sucks and needs to be changed. A few things I suggest...
Stim movement speed lowered (so banelings with speed upgrade on creep can't just be kited forever)
Stim decreases HP more than it currently does (1.5x-2x more HP loss per stim)
Medivac energy drains much faster healing so medivacs can't just heal forever, forcing engagements to be shorter before needing to retreat for energy
I think any of those options would be ideal. I personally think the movement speed of stimmed marines would be the best option to nerf.
Medivac is simply incredibly broken: units not dying over time because of heals is the ultimate economic buff. This is why Terran is "So Efficient"
I think why marines or Terran bio is simply broken is: Their size is small so you can clamp like 20 units in small ball that fires at the same time and fast.. the dmg output is just ridiculous + the medivacs. It is straight up super cost-effective. Fast walk/run speed, possibility to pick up and boost away. Terran army just can punish and flee. Zerg cant chase or directly attack either. Sad
I think they should probably remove combat shield and add an ability to the Liberator to shock/stun IMO
But noticed one more thing - g3 Terran wasted about 20 scans and still had enough, so perhaps a scan energy nerf could work 🤔
@@whynow4306 Increase marine size by 50%
@@hia5235 Yep. Terran can just start cutting into zerg units for free the instant those medivacs come out.
queen nerf basically destroyed this matchup.
The -StarCraft2- Terran balance council did a -terrible- wonderful job 👍🏼
Word from our sponsors! To be honest, Winter deserved sponsors....
Game 1
3 Supply Ghosts
Clem makes 13
Its fair to say that in TvZ: the change meant nothing
Its because its Clem. He did not even need the Ghost in the second match to dominate.
@@shadowpriest2574 Yes, Terran is that strong I agree. He didnt need the Cyclone either. You made my point
@@shadowpriest2574 a broken race with cheat-like units and abilities can have this effect.
@@OnigoroshiZero All 3 races have cheat-like units and abilities.
Protoss can teleport and spawn in units on the other side of the map, Zerg can spawn units on the other side of the map too, with Nydus Worm, they also have Queens which in most scenarios guarantee map vision if not outright map control.
The only thing that can be described as cheat-like mechanic is the Scan ability, everything else is fairly straightforward , even the Ghost.
Also, you understan that Terran is that good because its in the hands of a player like Clem, right? Most cant control the units to his lvl and most are nowhere near as aggresive as he is with the race.
@@shadowpriest2574 While i agree with what you said, and yes clem is clem with terran, we have here the best zerg player too with serral.
I'm so here for Brenda's 4th wall breaking meta commentary.
IMO terran games just aren't fun to watch anymore when 90% of the set is kiting with marines, ghosts and medivacs... mechanically impressive sure, but the "S" in RTS is lacking.
G1 was insane to see Serral throw almost every tech at Clem and do exactly nothing because ghosts just counter EVERYTHING. Shit to watch, zero strategy from the Terran side.
Terran are fun to watch....when they're losing. 👍
the MOST proffessional starcraft
We are so eager to see what here shall unfold
The economy sinks .01 GDP in the immediate hour after each of your video posts.
YT ad revenue goes up tho
Ah 2 of the best starcraft 2 players Of all time!!
Winter, you're so great bro, I watch every video now. Most of the time I watch these to fall asleep, but your commentary is absolutely top tier!
That was unwatchable. Serral got off multiple game-ending fungals due to critical mistakes by clem in a game and he just jukes it. ridiculous. Also that ultralisk kiting was f-ing ridiculous - that should not even be a thing! This is easily the lowest point of this game.
Serral is the darth sidious chancellor palpatine of StarCraft 2. And Clem is Anakin after winning against Obi-Wan on Mustafar.
Winter said it himself
I was putting off watching this when I saw it announced just before my shift, been looking forward to it alll night! Thanks Winter!
17:02 Your commentary is witty and awesome.
We've reached the point were we basically don't even need to watch the games to know who wins.
If it is T vs Not-Serral: Terran Wins.
And if it is the best Terran (Clem) vs the best non-terran, Terran wins again.
Wow, absolutly amazing.
This game is no longer about: Who is the best?
But: Who is playing Terran.
What did the last patch do? It nerfed the Ultra, the Queen and the Hydra.
Like - seriously?
It's getting ridicilous. I seriously wonder if the balance councel is betting tons of money on which race wins the next tournaments.
They don't even try to pretend to make a balanced game any longer.
the patch made it worse. but terran is broken since day one. and everyone was like omg omg Marine King Prime, Byun, Maru, TY, Inno, MVP, Bomber, these are gods.... more like Gods of abusing imbalance. finally the majority of players sees it.
Yea hydra and ultra def were THE units to nerf. Too op, zergs just went pure hydra and pure ultra every game. So broken!
@@benismann Yes.
And the Queen? Sure, it was very strong - but it was the ONLY anti-air unit that Zerg had.
By making them more expensive, Zerg has automatically a few drones less than previously.
Previously, T. needed to actually kill some Drones with Reaper/Banshee whatever that Zerg has a loss.
Now Terran can kill 0 drones and Zerg is STILL suffering, because Zerg needs to build several queens.
Basically Zerg lost 3 drones early game, just because the Queen got more expensive.
@@wedgeantilles8575 no the queen I at least see the reason to nerf. Unlike with hydras and ultras, which weren't even that good (hydra is the only other ground-to-air unit so it was at least somewhat used and not just a lurker egg with movement)
@@benismann By itself, I agree.
Yes, the Queen was very strong.
The problem is: The queen is without alternative.
Zerg needs to make so many of them, because they are the only answer to everything Terran throws at them.
Reaper, Hellions, Banshee.
Zerg is completly dependend on them for quite a long time.
And they can NEVER destroy a Terran - all they can do is keep the Terran at bay.
If the Terran micros well, the Queens will never kill the reaper, never kill the banshees.
And the hellions will only get destroyed if the T. decideds to commit.
So is the queen too strong? No, because all she manages to do is keeping Zerg in the game.
And if you want to nerf her - which would be fine - Zerg would need replacement stuff.
Hydra as Tier 1 unit like in Starcraft 1 for example.
That you could defend against Terran with the Hydra.
Then they could nerf the queen.
Winter is the best Starcraft 2 player.Not the most skilled or the fastest . Just the best.
Well... that was sad. Zerg gutted out on the last patch.
Feels like Serral is running after faster units and could never get to fight them.
Dont even feel like watching the last game, it feels kind of agonizing...
zerg has speed upgrades on basically all but spellcasters and air units, shouldn't that mean that those units are fast? apparently not, especially not the ultra
Expectation: Zerg is the race of fast, cheap units that suck in combat because they can avoid engagements until it's favorable. Terran is the race of powerful, slow units that are good at defensive fortifications and strategic positioning.
Reality: Zerg is the race of cheap units that suck at combat. Terran is the race of fast, powerful units that are good at everything.
@@davehollis5816 this is exactly the gist of it. I don't even care how much they tweak the numbers, T has everything which goes against even the most basic rules of balance design.
The Ultra nerfs are, as expected, much more devastating than they seemed on paper(to non Zerg players that is). Moreover the Queen nerf for hatchery buff, again as expected, turns out to be a much larger deal than it seems. Funny how the 2 nerfs that Terran and Protoss players glossed over so much when the patch was announced prove to be the most detrimental. Also, Ghost nerf? What Ghost nerf? Its functionality is still the same! It's still the most broken unit in the game, a spell caster that actually does good auto attack damage and is quite tanky too. Oh and it can also hit air units. The nerf to 3 supply cost doesn't really change all that much because Ghosts are so strong they don't need the other units to do the damage. They are both the support and the carry borrowing from MOBAs. You can have less of them(or less of everything else), sure, but they still counter literally every Protoss unit(emp removing shields) and all mid and late tier Zerg units. Even Banelings, their supposed counter, don't actually work all that well after the Baneling nerfs.
This patch is so bad that it retroactively made me dislike the previous balance patch or three. Serral and Clem are comparably skilled players but skewed toward their race. Serral more macro and strategy while Clem more micro and rapid tactical deployment. Zerg just doesn't have any good answers to Terran capabilities while Terran has multiple answers to everything. Always been that way, but with Serral meeting his match, it's just painfully blatant.
Ultra speed nerf and supply drop buff both need to be reverted. The mineral swap between queens and hatcheries should likely be reverted. Mutas need to cost at least 25 less gas and Hydra range upgrade needs at least another +1 air range so Zerg has some air capabilities in the mid game.
Ghost snipe and EMP are catch-all abilities against Zerg and Protoss respectively. EMP shield damage needs to cap out at snipe levels of damage, distributed evenly over all Protoss units hit. Slowing the EMP projectile won't do anything for slow Protoss units. Still won't fix the absurd utility of the Ghost, but Terran players will mutiny if you do and the only real out is a complete balance overhaul of the game. The only way to do that is if all tournaments started using the same balance mod by a different balance team. Moving EMP to the Raven will actually be worse for Protoss because you'd get Interference Matrix, Auto-Turret and EMP on the same flying unit.
Shield Battery Overcharge sucks, but it needs to return and be on a shared cooldown with Energy Overcharge. Maybe that will stabilize Protoss early game enough that someone who cares about that race can fix them. Reducing the Stalker train time by 3 seconds to prevent Protoss dying from Marauder all-ins every time is an admission of how bad it is without fixing anything.
Yes, I'm ranting into the void just so I don't have to think it anymore.
Because Queenz OP and the only thing keeping Banshees from ending the game at 5min in.
I have to admit I kinda like supply drops though, looked like Clem dropped them just before the banes hit, and lost one instead of 3 wp.
I love when the jacket comes out
The queen was nerfed because it was too good at allowing the Zerg to survive. The result is that Zerg has absolutely no anti air to deal with medivacs and liberators and needs to rush vipers every game to deal with medivac harass.
The spore crawler changes are useless. It got a midgrade but you still need to sacrifice a drone to get one so they're a joke for early game defense when drones are most critical.
The Ultra changes are the most braindead thing I've ever seen. Double nerfs so now Terran can kite them off creep and they're more vulnerable to splash damage. They were already never played and now they're even worse somehow.
The ghost nerf doesn't even matter because Zerg can't even get to late game anymore
I've been watching professional starcraft II since 2018 and the only time I've felt this level of Apathy was when mass infested marine was the meta. These are two of the best players out there and I never felt like Serral had a chance of winning the series without Clem making a huge blunder.
Let's Get Ready To Rumble!!!
Man. I'm so tired of watching medivacs load and leave. Then heal an army to full so they can attack for half a second before loading and leaving again
Half the medivac energy regen. They have an upgrade for that anyways, why do other races units HAVE to have upgrades to work at all (colossi, any zerg unit with a speed upgrade, the only exception is RAVEN which is why it's never used ig) while terran units are just good by default and get better with upgrades?
@@benismann Marine without Stimpack and Combat Shield is not that good. They also need upgrades to work well.
@@shadowpriest2574 they're better than slow lings or god forbid slow zealots tho.
@@benismann True, however:
"why do other races units HAVE to have upgrades to work at all (colossi, any zerg unit with a speed upgrade, the only exception is RAVEN which is why it's never used ig) while terran units are just good by default and get better with upgrades?"
This was your statement. Have you ever seen anyone consistently push with unupgraded marines? No? Well, then they are in the same field as those other units. Yes they are still good but Stim Marine is an entirely different unit compared to Unstimmed marine.
Remember the ghost supply cost increase wasn't even in the first patch iteration...
Also remember that the Terran council got very pissy about being "forced" to push it through despite their "vision" (which presumably is a mono-race game of nothing but TvT where we never have to deal with those pesky zergs and tosses).
Well ghost doesn't impact the TvT matchup much so why would they need to change it?
Hahahahaha winter your last couple of casts have just been so much fun
Just listening to you playing out the marines being trapped and making it hilarious
So good
This is my kind of humour, I hope the comments about people hating on the state of the game doesn't shift your flow away from you just having fun and telling stories
Love this, thank you for being you and letting all us other nerds keep imagining ❤️
oh my god I missed you Serral my lord
55:05 the Infestor isn't just "out of energy," Clem pre-scanned the fight and EMP'd. Some slick habits for terran players out there to learn from
Who's the greatest player of all time? Can't remember who but somebody once said Dark...
I can't watch Terran BS anymore, i kept skipping the video. Sorry Winter.
What a baby, lol
@@CamFamX2not wanting to waste time = baby? 👍🏻🤦🏻♂️
@@CamFamX2you sound like Terran. I skip only to see who wins. The game fkn sucks and the data shows. It's not even a pro game at the level it used to be.
i'm a simple man, i see a winter vid, i watch and click like
34:39 SCORE INVERSION!
See! Serral 2:0 Clem! Nerf zerg!
Pretty bad balance, mm is the only thing you need, they kill everything. Really , not even ultras are a counter..?. They are looking to close the shop with this patches.
The balance council is a complete joke. Terran has been OP for a decade at this point and has never gotten a true nerf. Zerg units cannot counter any terran units reliably yet literally every terran unit hard counters zerg units. Complete joke
2 spore per base would have saved a lot of Workers and APM....
ZvsT lategame is still not winnable
i feel like ghosts shouldnt be able to snipe air units. would make them less oppressive against zerg while still maintaining their strength against zerg ground units. also i dont think the ultra needed both nerfs to its size and speed. speed nerf should probably be reverted but maybe the size increase can stay
the only game Serral won was with the new Rogue-like build as mentioned by Winter 54:57
Winter does mention it's the mass overseer style but the whole build is basically very similar to Rogue's build with better infestor control from Serral
Serral is so good he is up 2:0 even when he loses the first 2 games :)
Lol
Jimmy about to get a paycut
Zerg got nerfed into the ground.
You’re videos give me a reason to live, you’re queen voices get me every time
No offense to Clem, but I can't watch him win anymore. I opened the video, skipped to the end, saw he won comfortably, and decided I didn't need to see it happen. If *Serral* is getting his ass soundly kicked and it's not a real contest, terran is too strong. I'll keep watching good games though
thats how I feel too, I just look at who wins the series to decide whether its worth watching.
You can only watch Terran stomp everyone so much before its boring, and when they don't win its "what cheese did the other player sucker punch him with" cause it wasn't skill that won. You can't outskill that much raw overpoweredness.
It was already bad before the patch and then they nerfed both Ultra and Hydra speed. Yep.
@@JollyGreenWizard Yes. This is how i am doing it too. I am sorry but i am not going to waste a hour of time, to watch same and same thing. With this patch and Clem, this matchup is boring.
Its crazy how Terran council Effed up...
Now you know how everyone else felt watching Serral for the last 6 years
@@Dunendil yea except zerg got nerfed time and time again while serral was dominating. Can't wait to see the same happen to terran!