anyone should be able to switch races whenever they want...if they're good enough beat the best players with an 'off race' they deserved the win period
I don't think anyone has an issue with allowing pros to race switch. The issue is that of procedure if two players both have multiple races with preferred matchups which generate a race selection loop. For example, let's say hypothetically Gumiho prefers playing Z into P. Then there is now a race selection loop where Clem Picks P into Gumiho's T but this causes Gumiho to switch to Z which causes Clem to go back to T which then causes Gumiho to go back to T and so Clem Picks P again and the loop repeats. Since Reynor and Clem are the only players doing this and only for mirror matchups it's not actually an issue right now. It's more about future proofing the race selection procedure before the above problem occurs. For instance, a rule such as the player who selected the map must lock in their race first would future proof the procedure while also not mattering right now since the situation isn't an issue at this time.
Thanks Clem for defending us from TvT finals. And thanks Winter for showing and commentating this. Dark day become a little bit better for me. And yes, this is cringe way for asking you to cast Dark's game.
As a master 2 terran player: NO. TvT is pure pain. TvT is literally gambling to see if you catch your oponnent of guard. TvT is literally see if you have more siege tanks. TvT is misery .
@@trollerox7276 mirror matchups have always been the worst part of the game. i dont remember the last time i even was able to force myself through an entire PvP series. at least TvT can be fun to watch sometimes.
@@HellecticMojo They dont even counter zerglings in a vacuum lol, zerglings beat collosus cost effectively (just not supply effectively I think) if both are unmicrod, if you walk through collosus hitbox its even worse for them since you get more surface area to attack through. Its the same for archons really, archons also just straight up lose to zerglings, they need stalkers or zealots to finish them off on low hp but stalkers and zealots still notoriously overkill targets unlike zerglings or marines finishign off low hp units.
Colossi are specialized units and Marauders are literally a hard-counter... what actually is your post? 😂The number of upvotes you got and the calibre of replies is proof or a view-base that knows absolutely nothing about this game.
@@HellecticMojo Colossi are fine. Tanks & Thors are high tier and lose to Chargelots. Capital ships lose to Stalkers... as you can see "tiers" have never had any relation to power scaling in this game. Just FYI mines, hellion/hellbat, hydras, locusts are not tier 1 & get vaporized by Colossi. It doesn't make sense to have a tier 3 ground unit that isn't armored or massive.
@@juanjesustorressalcedo780 doesn't help with marine-medivac pushes and medivac drop effectiveness. Toss need blink to have reliable counter to early game air and also have to deal with tanks. Not sure what issues Toss has with zerg with a nerfed blink.
As a Terran player, Clem has unmatched multitasking and micro - it would be great to see the types of plays he will grow to apply this to as Protoss. DT and other cheese shenanigan's come to mind.
After like 5 minutes with Gumis drops working so effective I was like... yep, gg Clem looks like he's gonna start 0-1.... literally 5-6 minutes later, he's pushing destroying Gumi's entire army and he gg's... holy shyte. Did not see that coming
Clem may have the looks of a small innocent boy, but he is a scary scary SC2 player. He is the equivalent to the killer rabbit from Monty Pythons Quest for the Holy Grail.
Tournament concept: pregen all random. Once the bracket is finalized it gets released like a week ahead of time and includes what races will be in each game. Players still get to predict and prepare, but how does Maru prep for a ZvZ against Scarlett?
I feel like since they took away shield battery overcharge, they should get rid of scan too. or make it so they all share a 2-minute cooldown like recall and shield battery recharge. But of course, nerfing Terran is not allowed lol
I found myself in a bit of a conundrum at the beginning of this stream, seeing how when either of these people play, it's usually against zerg, so it's quite easy to root for them. Then again, on one hand, you gotta respect Clem's terran play, his sheer micro-ability, not to mention, he's playing off-race this time but at the same time, GuMiho's creative playstyle is also something to respect. I'm hedging my bets by saying: whatever the outcome, these will be some quality games!
Hi. I'm not a SC2 player at all but I look at it a little bit without knowing exactly what's going on. On the last 3 matches, the attacking team concede after attacking. Especially in the 4th game where I really thought Clem have won the fight. What's happening ?
I loved that Clem's response to everyone still bitching after he got Ghosts nerfed was to simply play Protoss and show people what's possible. (Much love to MaxPax, he's still at the tippity top!)
The last two games feel a lot like the ladder PvT games I've played. I lose a lot to Terran early pushes before the patch, and I don't think the loss of shield batter overcharge in exchange for extra energy is going to help much. And I feel we're just going to see more pro Terrans taking advantage of the widening gap in power on at this time in the game. On the (more important) issues of pro games I'm watching, the whole series reiterates the bigger problem nothing has addressed. I don't really see much more variety from Protoss players. Let me scout here... what did I scout?... doesn't matter I'm going to go Blink. Then Charge + Colossus. Eventually Storm, although a lot of games don't get there. I see other things tried occasionally, but they almost always lose. I'm bored with the match-up. I was hoping watching Clem play an P would be more interesting, but it felt more like MaxPax-lite.
22:33. Can't believe there's someone still mentioning hots. It's still so much fun, with all the bots and trolls, and the bronze 5 people getting matched in qm with diamond players. I don't know why a casual moba that tries to force an esports scene, becoming both a money waste and unfun, would fail. What did activision mean by this?
Ive been playing starcraft 2 since beta . I won one of the first tournaments ever held. I played wc3 before that and k was one ofthe top players in beta. Of that too And before that i play d BW and SC. Im amazed how much better than me these guys arem the gap is so big
Clem has fixed his TvT by switching to protoss.
Not even Clem wants to face GuMiHo's TvT. And we got a better match out of it. Lol
@@chloesmith4065 i talked to him about at HSC last week facing GuMiHo in the finals and clem basically said its a nightmare to fight him
@@chloesmith4065Gumiho IS just built différent 😎
Good strat...
If Clem ends up switching to Zerg and becomes a top-ranked player on that race, too, I'm going to set myself on fire.
I feel like if he learns to play zerg he could become a top random player and I want to see this
🔥🔥🔥
!remindme 300 days.
Lmao never. Zerg benefits the least from micro, which is his strong suit, and the most from strategy, which is his weakness.
Please don't. Unless you end up surviving it. Then you can enjoy more Starcraft 2.
"It's just a bunch of marines " - famous last words
Oh god they're shooting me ma, they're shooting me
anyone should be able to switch races whenever they want...if they're good enough beat the best players with an 'off race' they deserved the win period
I don't think anyone has an issue with allowing pros to race switch. The issue is that of procedure if two players both have multiple races with preferred matchups which generate a race selection loop. For example, let's say hypothetically Gumiho prefers playing Z into P. Then there is now a race selection loop where Clem Picks P into Gumiho's T but this causes Gumiho to switch to Z which causes Clem to go back to T which then causes Gumiho to go back to T and so Clem Picks P again and the loop repeats. Since Reynor and Clem are the only players doing this and only for mirror matchups it's not actually an issue right now. It's more about future proofing the race selection procedure before the above problem occurs. For instance, a rule such as the player who selected the map must lock in their race first would future proof the procedure while also not mattering right now since the situation isn't an issue at this time.
@@Me2893me Also, being good with 2 race is not easy.
@@Me2893me or just blind lock-ins for race?
@@twistie404 Yeah that also works. The point is that the rules have a procedure that avoids the hypothetical race selection infinite loop issue.
@@Me2893me you make it sound like its some sort of quantum problem. players can blind pick.
clem out here playing 4D chess by getting protoss nerfed.
LMAOOO
watching gumiho play is probably the only player which feels like watching a strategy game
wow that last tank push with the medivac, cyclone and triple scvs to repair was such a sick adjustment to the amazing blink stalker micro from clem
Thanks Clem for defending us from TvT finals. And thanks Winter for showing and commentating this. Dark day become a little bit better for me. And yes, this is cringe way for asking you to cast Dark's game.
This is why Clem was fine with a ghost nerf. It's time for him to just flex by offracing lol
Nooo I was really really hoping for a TvT finals it's the only matchup that turns SC2 into a true Strategy game! :(
Even Terrans don't want to play against Terrans
As a master 2 terran player: NO.
TvT is pure pain.
TvT is literally gambling to see if you catch your oponnent of guard.
TvT is literally see if you have more siege tanks.
TvT is misery .
As a random player:
TvT is proxy 3 rax reaper .
TvT is proxy 2 rax marauder rush+SCV pull
TvT is doing anything to not actually play TvT
@@trollerox7276 mirror matchups have always been the worst part of the game. i dont remember the last time i even was able to force myself through an entire PvP series. at least TvT can be fun to watch sometimes.
Clem!! You were the chosen one! You were supposed to destroy the Protoss, not join them!!!
He got bored. He will master protoss, then move onto zerg, and then officially take up playing random.
Bring balance to the meta, not leave it in darkness!
27:52 I watch and love you for your impeccable Gumiprose, your hilarious Gumijokes. Are you the funniest? I think Gumiso.
I've had just about Gumihenough of these jokes! 😤 /s
'Have we had second observer?' - best WinterStarcraft quote in ages for me, nice Lord of the Rings reference
9:14 Holy shit the Colossi are doing fuck all damage, and straight up just giving the Marauders a very light tan.
Yup, colossi are hot garbage. The most expensive ground unit for the protoss and it can't kill anything outside of tier 1
@@HellecticMojo They dont even counter zerglings in a vacuum lol, zerglings beat collosus cost effectively (just not supply effectively I think) if both are unmicrod, if you walk through collosus hitbox its even worse for them since you get more surface area to attack through.
Its the same for archons really, archons also just straight up lose to zerglings, they need stalkers or zealots to finish them off on low hp but stalkers and zealots still notoriously overkill targets unlike zerglings or marines finishign off low hp units.
@@HellecticMojo That specific tier 1 unit is the best unit in the game so.
Colossi are specialized units and Marauders are literally a hard-counter... what actually is your post? 😂The number of upvotes you got and the calibre of replies is proof or a view-base that knows absolutely nothing about this game.
@@HellecticMojo Colossi are fine. Tanks & Thors are high tier and lose to Chargelots. Capital ships lose to Stalkers... as you can see "tiers" have never had any relation to power scaling in this game.
Just FYI mines, hellion/hellbat, hydras, locusts are not tier 1 & get vaporized by Colossi. It doesn't make sense to have a tier 3 ground unit that isn't armored or massive.
just started and im already so excited. thank you for the content
I watched this on twitch but watched it again just to hear winter yell "THE BOYS!"
Thanks!
seeing clem play protoss was a joy.
“The protos must stand trial” balance devs “he’s to dangerous to be left alive!”
Clem changing the meaning of "never base-trade a Terran" 🤣
Hey, I have recently been sucked in to watching many of these comentator videos. You are doing excellent work - I love to watch this.... *applause*
Clem forgot that probes aren't scvs. Pulling them doesn't do much, they die instantly.
I need this intro in my life DAILY! Now you’re addictive asf!
Protoss dodged a blink nerf here.
If blink gets nerfed, the race is dead.
@@loumenad that's true. All basic protoss units are already too weak for the price.
@@loumenadmaybe buff chargelots?
@@juanjesustorressalcedo780 doesn't help with marine-medivac pushes and medivac drop effectiveness. Toss need blink to have reliable counter to early game air and also have to deal with tanks. Not sure what issues Toss has with zerg with a nerfed blink.
Clem: "My enemies are many, my equals none."
Gumiho: "Bonjour."
As a Terran player, Clem has unmatched multitasking and micro - it would be great to see the types of plays he will grow to apply this to as Protoss. DT and other cheese shenanigan's come to mind.
Amazing video, i thoroughly enjoyed it, thank you Winter!
No matter the match up, Winter always provides a great gumishow.
After like 5 minutes with Gumis drops working so effective I was like... yep, gg Clem looks like he's gonna start 0-1.... literally 5-6 minutes later, he's pushing destroying Gumi's entire army and he gg's... holy shyte. Did not see that coming
GGG Gumiho Good Games for the fans!
What an amazing series. Glad to see Gumibro take it all.
6:07 the artosis pylon reference voice line is gold here 😂 nothing more needed to be said
🗣"WHO DOES THAT?!"
Clem may have the looks of a small innocent boy, but he is a scary scary SC2 player. He is the equivalent to the killer rabbit from Monty Pythons Quest for the Holy Grail.
Would love to see Winter visit Homestory Cup XVII in June/July as a caster!
your still doing it huh!? i use to watch you like 5 years ago trying to get up in the ranks. youre a legend buddy
That game 4 build from Gumiho was incredible, so cool to watch
I can name a similarly iconic duo of the recent past : Showtime and Heromarine :)
6:22 the dead probe continuing to work
A protoss and gumiho in a grand finals feels too good to be true
i could be wrong but isnt stalkers stalking and lurkers lurking? oO stalkers lurking makes no sense unless they cosplaying zerg
Seeing Abyssal Reef map again is such a nostalgic moment.
My favorite map of all time.
Seeing abyssal reef again makes me so happy. One of my favorite all time maps, so many epic games and funny corpse ragdolls
i saw this live, but ill watch it again casted by winter, because: why not ? STARCRAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT
ALSO: GUMIHO IS LOOKING FOR A TEAM, BE AWARE
@@foncareth7857c9 never should've dropped him
you are a true fan 🥇
That was fantastic
Teran not using ravens for killing observers kills me every time.
Terran should not be able to spot observer shadows at all with infinite scans how is Protoss supposed to have any vision at all?
Revelation and unlimited energy?
Place them in the right spot. That would be a literal maphack and is a whacky suggestion. Scan only lasts a few seconds by comparison.
”Who drops a tank?!” Made me think of good ol’ TotalBiscuit (rest in power) in a TvT, casting his own replay: “Who the hell proxies a tank?!”
that godlike protoss micro.. phew. To be honest, rooting for any race vs terran at this point
@WinterStarcraft please please please cast more GuMiho games especially his TvTs he's so entertaining to watch! (Which Clem is very much isn't)
almost 50k views, we need these numbers on tournaments people! Turn up :D
The night dark is dark and full of Terrain...legendary
Tournament concept: pregen all random. Once the bracket is finalized it gets released like a week ahead of time and includes what races will be in each game. Players still get to predict and prepare, but how does Maru prep for a ZvZ against Scarlett?
Protos is easy enough for pros to use secondarily in order to fix certain matchups. Kind of a cool place for toss to be.
53:14 the tactical boys move was genius!
Clem gets a taste of Terran being OP.
I like how Arthas's Strathholme theme from Warcraft/WoW plays in starcraft games.
Almost 240! LETS GOOO
Clem just don't want to play biased race
08:14 "Nevermore", yep thats what the raven said.
I remember back in the day - Gumiho used to play random in the GSL
I have nothing to say but want to leave a comment to support you, so here you go. 🤘
I like how everybody plays Protoss now.
Its so cool to see clem play protoss in a big turny!
If only TB were here to see how far sc2 and its players have come
Still use his announcer. Dude was a gem. Sometimes I watch back an interview to remember what a great guy he was.
@@golgotai2938
Arrogant biscuit ?
lol nigga was gold level yet talked big, that's how much he understood strategy games.
i need to look up draw fighting later as i found myself laughing thinking about i have 1 building and a dream
Hilarious title and banner - well done
Nice to see terran prevails, regardless who played it.
Such an amazing series.
HOPEFULLY IT'S NOT A GUMI THROW
Gumiho is more impressive than I thought taking a game of Clem
I feel like since they took away shield battery overcharge, they should get rid of scan too. or make it so they all share a 2-minute cooldown like recall and shield battery recharge. But of course, nerfing Terran is not allowed lol
Byun and Clem get always reaper cheers but saving that reaper behind and between enemy lines by Gumiho was noticed CHEERS
It would be cool to see a 2v2 between some of the top 20 players. Like clem and maxpax vs dark and serral. Or someone else.
So if we play Protoss during mirrors, who do we play when PvP? Terran probably for emp right?
The greatest advantage Protoss Clem have is he doesn't have to face Terran Clem.
I need a PvP between Raynor and Clem now!
15:42 "Well then you are lost!"
Beautiful revenge :D. Serves you right terran deserter
I found myself in a bit of a conundrum at the beginning of this stream, seeing how when either of these people play, it's usually against zerg, so it's quite easy to root for them.
Then again, on one hand, you gotta respect Clem's terran play, his sheer micro-ability, not to mention, he's playing off-race this time but at the same time, GuMiho's creative playstyle is also something to respect.
I'm hedging my bets by saying: whatever the outcome, these will be some quality games!
What if they bring back medicvac tank drop but regular tank takes 1 second to load causing medivac to stop in place and seige mode tank 2 seconds
28:20 Not using "as he wants to maintain the Gumiflow."
am disappoint
Pleeeease cast the Gumiho Clem TvT!!!!
Hi. I'm not a SC2 player at all but I look at it a little bit without knowing exactly what's going on.
On the last 3 matches, the attacking team concede after attacking. Especially in the 4th game where I really thought Clem have won the fight. What's happening ?
Clem is Protoss here. Clem tapped out after the push from gumiho succeeded
@@sungwonkim4424 Thank you ! I didn't figure that they were exchanging protoss vs terran team. :)
Awesome games for the fans! Best Casting Ever!!!!
Remember Brenda t-shirt (thanks ww2 vets and any service members ❤)
1SMASH!! for the algorithm!!! we want moreeee
Liked for the Artosis pylon voice clip xD
Shout out for the map makers because this map pool is absolutely premium.
I loved that Clem's response to everyone still bitching after he got Ghosts nerfed was to simply play Protoss and show people what's possible. (Much love to MaxPax, he's still at the tippity top!)
Gumiho is on a rampage rn damn
Clems doing his part 🫡
The last two games feel a lot like the ladder PvT games I've played. I lose a lot to Terran early pushes before the patch, and I don't think the loss of shield batter overcharge in exchange for extra energy is going to help much. And I feel we're just going to see more pro Terrans taking advantage of the widening gap in power on at this time in the game. On the (more important) issues of pro games I'm watching, the whole series reiterates the bigger problem nothing has addressed. I don't really see much more variety from Protoss players. Let me scout here... what did I scout?... doesn't matter I'm going to go Blink. Then Charge + Colossus. Eventually Storm, although a lot of games don't get there. I see other things tried occasionally, but they almost always lose. I'm bored with the match-up. I was hoping watching Clem play an P would be more interesting, but it felt more like MaxPax-lite.
man, that 5 colossies were Cold
hey winter, do you play sc at all? Im super curious if you do and what your rank is.
www.google.com/search?q=winterstarcraft+grandmaster&client=ms-android-motorola-rvo3&sca_esv=2e484b4e376f015d&ei=oq1UZ6fGE9bcp84PtYqpgQ0&oq=winterstarcraft+grandmaster&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIht3aW50ZXJzdGFyY3JhZnQgZ3JhbmRtYXN0ZXIyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMggQABiABBiiBEjEVFCzCFizS3AEeAGQAQCYAYEBoAGsEKoBBDE3Lja4AQPIAQD4AQGYAhugAs0RwgIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR8ICGRAuGIAEGLADGNEDGEMYxwEYyAMYigXYAQHCAhMQLhiABBiwAxhDGMgDGIoF2AEBwgILEAAYgAQYkQIYigXCAgYQABgKGB7CAhEQABiABBiRAhixAxiDARiKBcICBxAAGIAEGArCAgUQABiABMICBRAhGJ8FwgIHECEYoAEYCpgDAOIDBRIBMSBAiAYBkAYKugYECAEYCJIHBDE5LjigB4li&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
he does. he tends to be low gm
and he plays random, if you're curious. he tells his opp his race. he is best with zerg.
dont let clem break his gumiflow
Fantastic counter to blink stalkers!
what a macth nice video
🛡️ Spoiler Shield 🛡️
22:33. Can't believe there's someone still mentioning hots. It's still so much fun, with all the bots and trolls, and the bronze 5 people getting matched in qm with diamond players.
I don't know why a casual moba that tries to force an esports scene, becoming both a money waste and unfun, would fail. What did activision mean by this?
starcraft should have a nuzlock. where you get random buildinds and random units. make it happen
Ive been playing starcraft 2 since beta . I won one of the first tournaments ever held.
I played wc3 before that and k was one ofthe top players in beta. Of that too
And before that i play d BW and SC.
Im amazed how much better than me these guys arem the gap is so big
Thanks for the video! Can anyone say or suggest where is Winter from? What state? Very pleasant accent.
i think he's from georgia, the country
he lives in michigan i believe