Why Miles & Gwen's Relationship DIVIDED US
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- Miles Morales & Gwen Stacy have Become Popular and Divisive between Into the Spiderverse and Across the Spiderverse's films & today lets talk EVERYTHING about this budding relationship and why some have issues with it.
00:00 Why Is Miles & Gwen's Relationship Dividing us
2:38 How Miles Morales & Spider Gwen were first Created
4:50 How the Spiderverse film series Got Started
6:36 The Origins of Miles & Gwen's First Love story
11:45 How Did Gwen Stacy Start Getting Hate & A Defense of Her side
18:02 Why are people against Miles & Gwen Still? Age Gaps?
19:47 Margot / Spider Byte is a better love interest?
20:46 Gwen is Peter's Love, Not Miles Love?
24:01 Their relationship was Bad in the Comics so why retry it?
24:58 They are Better as PLATONIC Friends, I saw no love between them
27:05 Cause They are Different Races?!
30:01 The Disposable Black Love Interest Trope
31:45 How Many Mixed Couples Can you named in Animated movies?
34:16 Behind the scenes People have had issues with these type of couples
36:33 We need to Do better as a whole
39:49 What If Miles and Gwen Don't Kiss After all that in Beyond the Spider-verse
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Why Miles & Gwen's Relationship DIVIDED US
Miles Morales
Gwen Stacy
Sitting in a Tree
Marvel
Ghostflower
Love
Relationships
Spider Gwen
Ghost Spider
Spider-man
Into the Spiderverse
Across the spider verse
Beyond the spider verse
Relationship
Gwen X Miles
Miguel O'hara
The Spot 
Развлечения
Hey Yall Sadly First Link Claimed to Copyright after I thought we were clear. But thankfully it hasnt even been a day & caught it before the video grew too much so we fixed it fast.
Likes Comments and Shares Greatly Appreciated to rebuild the video we were at about 10k views beforehand again appreciate all yall support.
Hey Jax I bend wanting to see a tltz for kenshiro from fist of the North Star with like the finger strength and forearm training
And thanks for always making content that help us bullied kids and hope you have a great weekend
Already watched it before it got taken down. Just here to make sure it gets the attention it deserves from all the hard work you put into making it.
Jax I can't help but agree with almost everything you've brought up here Jax. Just some points I would like add or further:
One is that I wasn't aware that the disposing of a colored love interest had a name or was considered a trope so thanks for that.
Two, the 90s Spiderman show did well with Spiderman and Blackcat story as it stood out from Batman and Catwoman and wasn't too similar. Not to mention the chemistry and sexual tension that I at times feel like is lacking some cartoons these days 😅.
Third, I wonder if the people who say they didn't see a romance between them are saying that because they expect there to be more longing looks, blushing, big romantic gesture or the usual on the nose stuff we see in media especially in cartoons when they do romances. As opposed to the more subtle, natural, and slow build they are doing here.
Fourth, if people are saying this pairing shouldn't be because it's interracial then I say "that's all the more reason to do it" 🤨. In fact that has been one the major reasons I've been wanting to see this pairing play out because as you pointed out we are sorely lacking this kind of interracial pairings in mainstream movies let alone animated ones.
Moreover, the people who think that we have too many are probably thinking about all the shows on streaming or tv that have been doing it versus the movies.
Lastly, I kind of get the complaints that Miles being a popular black hero should be paired with a black love interest, because the trend in comics with characters like him or Jaime or Static is to usually pair them with a white woman and were are left with no iconic black superhero couple. However, that can sometimes feel like an obligatory thing. I.E. putting two characters of the same race together just because that's what's expected (e.g. black panther and Storm). Therefore, I sometimes prefer mixing up because once again the representation is sometimes lacking, and I personally like it when you can have interracial pairings in stories where race is secondary or not remarked on.
Sorry for the thesis paper here, great analysis Jax, and have a blessed one everyone 😎.
Sidenote: please do a video on the missed opportunity of Rey and Finn, and yes Miles better not end up being the only Spiderman in movie that doesn't get a kiss scene 😅.
Great work Jax 😎. I can't help but think that they should have immediately put Miles and Gwen together either in the second or first film.
I get that the first film was about Gwen opening herself up to having friends against and Miles becomes her first real friend since Peter. However, in the sequel I think it would have been even more interesting if they got together and it would have added to the drama later in the film.
To illustrate, if you'll indulge me. When Gwen visits Miles in his room. What if she had kissed him instead of hugging him, or perhaps when they talk upside down later they have their first kiss (re-creating one of their iconic comic book covers). Then that could submit that they are together. Have the scene where they swing around the city or eat at Miles's family's get together be their first official date. In addition, to the meeting the parents scene and then have the events that unfold later in the movie be their first fight or the thing that gets in the way of their relationship. A la what you see in most romantic comedies or stories.
Idk just a thought, hopefully they pay this off by having them actually kiss or something in the next film 🤔. Thank you if you read this far and have a blessed one everyone 😎.
This vid is just reminding how much I’m highly anticipating beyond the spiderverse, that film can’t come any sooner 😭
Same I am very hyped for that film as well
It probably won't come out until 2026 (at the earliest)
Yo me too same
Because it's a race swap and a gender swap not original characters miles can't sell a comic one
@@michaelmcdonald9633 Huh? Gwen was always an original character, they just made her a spider-person.
The "not everything has to end up romantic" argument is ridiculous when it comes to well written relationship....isn't your argument against bad couple writing with the "they are just standing next to each other"? You have a story that puts a lot of effort into relationship build up and development where it feels good and natural, thats exact oppposite of "standing next to each other" (i know im talking in circles here)
So are you saying you cant have well written friendship? That is type of relationship too. I personally am big fan of variety in media, so i would be happy with friendship ending too simply bec. it would be diff. that expected and you almost allways have romantic rel. in most movies at center.
@@mar.s6516 There are plenty of well written rships that dont end up in romance 😂 think of every m/m and f/f friendship ever idk
@@mar.s6516 They already became good friends by the first movie. They are just reverting back at this point
All these comments just don’t want to see an interracial relationship win smh
@@mar.s6516 They already have a well written friendshio, now let us have our slowburn romance, friends to lovers is a famous trope anyway
Please never stop doing "nerd" videos like this they’re always so well made!!!
One of the most "Popular" tweets against their relationship I saw on twitter was a quote tweet to somebody talking about how they didn't like how Gwen treated Miles and how she didn't have his back, and it said something like "That white woman needs to stay aways from that boy." And there were ALOT of likes and retweets to this post.
Twitter being what it is, most were probably not taking it that seriously, only for them to then find out that the person who made that tweet was actually just a straight up racist.
This person talked about how they didn't like interacial relations of any kind and didn't care that Miles himself is an interacial child. Some real 1940s type of racism.
That's just one good example of what type of people are against Gwen and Miles being together romantically.
Luckily, we have writers and directors who have made it clear that they are romantically interested in each other. They see this racist stuff and understand that to not have Gwen and Miles get together would only enable this type of thinking. I have no doubt that they plan on going through with Ghostflowers eventual reconciliation and have them get together before the next movie ends.
I agree 💯 percent. Let's see if they deliver and that other mainstream films follow 🤔.
Miles is neither interracial or biracial which I think was what you were trying to say. Miles is Black, and has multiple ethnicities. His mother is Afro latina
@@kookooforjooniepuffs4666Rio is mestizo. She is in the comics, games and movies. Miles is biracial
@@Treck533 she doesn’t look mestizo in the movies. she looked black in the ultimate spider man cartoon too. she does look mestizo in the video game, but her skin tone isn’t consistent in the comics.
@@kookooforjooniepuffs4666 She definitely looks Mestizo in the movies, her hair is of a 3A texture, her nose is more Eurocentric and her relatives at the party on the rooftop look more indigenous then African.
The blatant racism is the saddest one smh
It still blows my mind how often people will argue points of racism, whether they know it or not. And I’m really glad you addressed it. Great video bro! 🔥💪🏾
Right? and thanks my dudee
Same here. Arguing about stupid shit.
@@kijanajenkins2546 bro someone deadass said something about Elena of Avalor being native or something but says latinos aren't real I'm all like Stfu and was the same comment to everyone
6.I usually see/hear this issue coming from most black people they be like "why this black character gotta be with a snow bunny" "y'all don't like seeing black couples be together" "why can't we get a black power couple" "he's a race traitor" "why can't we get our black kings and queens" "why are black guys always after them white girls, they don't like black women anymore?" They be like this IRL as well, remember when women on twitter were crying that Lebron's son was taking a white girl to a school dance and they were pressed as hell.
True totally disregarding the fact that the majority of BM prefer, date, and though not often get married to their own BW. The tactic is focus on the outlier to cause controversy. Both rich and poor BM choose their own majority of the time.
As a man who was raised in an interracial family (My Dad being Black and my Mom being White), I have always loved interracial relationships being shown and celebrated in any media. I myself am also in an interracial marriage. I also loved seeing Miles Morales a character I could identify with on the big screen. You don't see many biracial leads in movies
Yeah As A interracial child My Dad being and My Mom being Llghtskinned it's very nice to see interracial couples in media and I just remembered that my older brother got married to a white woman in Kansas and two kids
Monkey lover
It was obvious they liked each other from their first interaction in Into the SpiderVerse during the classroom scene..they were literally sneaking glances at each other then looking away when the other person turned their head..
I think it makes perfect sense Gwen and Miles get along so well. You bond with people faster when you share common interests or activities. That’s why I’m surprised there hasn’t been a serious Black Cat and Spider-Man pairing. Mary Jane has no frame of reference for jumping off a building, while Black Cat does.
It’s sad to say, but I think the division is also less about narrative and more about cultural “taboos.” You’d think dating outside your race wouldn’t be such a big deal in the 21st century.
Great video Jax! You should do more videos like this! Long-form content is king!
Black Cat is a thief and burglar lmbo bruh
Personally I always loved when superheroes fell in love with someone in their superhero life opposed to normal life
I’ve always kinda hated when normal people have to be justified for superheroes
that's not true at all. he reason mj and peter got together in the first place was because they related to each other in terms of their personal life. Mj seems like the out going party girl who gets all of the guys, but it was just a facade, a mask to hide the pain she was suffering at home and with her abusive dad. peter was the one person who she could relate to and confide in, and for peter it was the same, especially after Gwen's death.
32:33 Again I am Genuinely stumped I couldnt think of a single Animated theatrical film that fit that category. Like Bro its 2024?!
And people say we have too much of it, clearly we do not 🤣 🤣.
i mean look at the Teen dramas years ago
@@Shinigami88X1 Such as 🤔?
@@CLDJ227 in a lot of teen drama the token black guy never got anyone
@@Shinigami88X1 Agreed, and if they did it was usually their own race or occasionally a different color but not a white one 🤔.
The latino thing is true. For the most part latino is latino, because we all look drastically different. I myself am ambiguously brown. So is my brother. However you wouldnt know my mom is latina until she opened her mouth to speak. Shes a blonde white girl with blue eyes. Thats why the term afro-latino did make me chuckle at first cause to me, thats just latino, however i realized that latinos with stronger african ancestry do often get discriminated against back home, just as much as their latino heritage gets burried here in the US.
There's a big aspect of colorism in the latino community. I myself look like the average white dude, so in my experience back in Dominican Republic I was treated like a foreigner, but not negatively, rather people often treated me too well, yet other relatives of mine and friends who had darker skin despite being similar to me in terms of personality or even being better people I ever was weren't offered the same kindness I got. And now that I live here in the US I am treated like a local, so often I have to listen to people dissing the latino community whether overtly or covertly because people often don't realize that I am one of the people they're seeing as lesser, intentionally or subconsciously.
I will say that Latino isn't a race, it's like being American. We have heritage from at least one to three continents; Europe, Africa, and one of the Americas. I don't know why the U.S. can have different races of American people, but as soon as you go south to Mexico and beyond, suddenly the various races that built up all of our countries don't exist anymore. That's honestly a slap to the face of the many groups and cultures of people that make up each and everyone of our Latino countries.
@@ThyFloorestFloor I remember having a friend that was latina but she looks white as mayo and has long brown hair so I didn't think about it but learned that there are more types of them
@@Zeno11Salazar No, it's not the same as being American. Being Latino is the same as being White. It's an umbrella term, a catch-all. When you want to be specific, you then specify; ie. Mexican, Brazillian, El Salvadoran, etc; in the same way you would specify British, French, Spaniard, etc.
Remember that when an American says "blank-american" the American is their nationality, while the first part is their race; ie Black-Americans are Americans (nationality) who are Black (race).
@@EriaAri I do agree with that, good points.
I am so glad I am not on Twitter or Reddit. I never knew this was even a thing.
ong foos gotta go outside more
I think Gwen was so controversial in this movie because she was being ripped apart in her mind. On the one side she has this constant pressure to proof herself to Miguel and on the other side she has feelings for miles but her new responsibilities cant allow a relationship, especially with Miles, so she tried to do both somehow, but when she met miles she realised fast that it was a mistake
But she put herself in such a difficult position that she betrayed her friend whom she loves
I actually like Gwen and Miles’ relationship in the Spiderverse franchise. There are much interracial relationships in cinemas, and they nearly become a thing in the comics. My hope they reconciled their bonds as we get to Beyond the Spiderverse.
MilesxGwen4eva It's so great and you're so right, they deserve to be happy and together (stop the criticism please)
Criticism is fine. Hate is not.
movies aren't comic cannons bro
@@RaidenNin What are you trying to say 🤔?
Me personally just watching this video about Miles and Gwen show me that i was dead wrong for me not understanding Gwen's action in both films, and i really like how u analyze their relationship from the first and second spider- verse movie because some people really really didn't like Gwen and Miles mostly gwen because her lying to Miles in the Movie which to her didn't have choice to make. I hope in the next movie whenever it comes out Miles and Gwen will have somewhat of talk and finally kiss, and that's what I really like to see from both of them...
Noted: I really like when you mention the race thing because some people really do need to understand why black and white people want to get together, and it not all about how they look or sound like.
I think there’s another point that wasn’t brought up here:
People hate miles x Gwen because they want Peter to have that kinda stability in a relationship and I’ll explain.
Miles in his own way doesn’t subscribe to the idea of being spider-man is both a gift and a curse that things will always go wrong and that life is one big struggle. People hate that peters life seems to always be miserable yet miles ( who they already view as lesser then Peter ) not only becomes spider-man, but gets cooler extra powers, a cool costume and almost seems to be a better spider-man then Peter in just the way he’s presented. Now yes that can fall on the writers since ultimately it’s up to them how the stories go but in universe Peter is sometimes self deprecating to the point of annoyance. Sometimes Peter will act like being spider-man ruins his life and that it’s only because of uncle Ben that he does what he does, in a round about way Peter treats his life like it was written by fate and he doesn’t fight to change it he fights to keep the status quo. That’s why I hate one more day because while it’s unfortunate aunt May got shot making a deal with Mephisto makes no sense to me. Peter gave up being with MJ and the life they had together just to go back to the status quo of things, this isn’t something miles would do in that position it doesn’t feel like he would do that. Miles does struggle but he has this confidence that you can’t help but admire.
Then you have Gwen who up until 2014 was no better then uncle Ben her only role in spider-man’s story was to die, that’s why when Gwen says that in every universe Gwen falls in love with spider-man and dies it hits hard because that’s her canon event, and it’s probably why Miguel didn’t trust her because according to his lore Gwen shouldn’t even be alive. Imagine learning that your fate in most walks of life is to die and be forgotten. Most young fans like me didn’t even know who she was till spectacular Spider-Man and then the amazing spider-man films that lead us to her comic origins. Gwen’s fate shouldn’t be tied to peters and it’s good she became her own person.
I guess to wrap up my thoughts you could say people hate miles c Gwen because they go against the traditional norms both in and out of universe and they hate it because of what it says about Peter sometimes, a beloved hero who seems to always be destined for tragedy but miles and Gwen overcame that pitfall. Miles makes his own future and he inspired Gwen to do the same and they have each other. Meanwhile Peter has almost no one except MJ who’s on and off and aunt May, meanwhile everyone else seems to become a villian and try to kill him or screw his life up
Writers need to leave peter alone, i didn't even know gwen was peter's original love interest until i looked at the lore. Wish she didn't die. I just hate that the whole peter needs to suffer to be relatable.
@@faith4657 Funny you say that because ppl back then around the time Gwen was going to die they found her boring and started liking MJ more
@@revolutionarydragon1123 really? Wow the disparity is insane. Jeez amazing spider man really did her well and with the way the writers are finding ways to screw over peter it would be nice to bring back old relationships. Cause if other characters can get revived why not her.
Bro you’re the best wing man ever
I try to be, Ya gotta look out for your Bros, Dudettes, and Nonbinary pals when they need the alley oop haha
MILESXGWEN4EVA
1. Gwen Stacy hate: I can’t deal with this people. Like she literally stated at the start of the second film she didn’t mean to hurt him by trying to protect him from the truth about what the spider society were saying about him. Plus she didn’t want to lose miles from these canon events because that’s the only meaningful connection she has made in her life. At the end of the movie she learns from her mistakes and is willing to go to war forming her own band just to save him.
2. Age gap: I mean come on man. Wtf. Miles is 15 and Gwen 16 in these movies how is that creepy and weird. That’s all I’m going to say. It’s just dumb.
3. Miles should be together with spider-byte: Are u serious? They only shared 46 seconds of screen time together. Miles and Gwen have screen time for across the two movies. And ASTV and BTSV is the love story between them by showing us romantic build up and slow burn. With also having more chemistry between them that appeared on the first two films.
4. Gwen is Peter’s love, not miles: gwen is different compared to normal Gwen Stacy. The movies Peter doesn’t date spider Gwen. He dates the normal variant of Gwen Stacy. I heard some people say Gwen should date a variant of Peter why would Gwen in this movie date peter. She is already traumatised of her losing her own Peter in her world. Now when it comes to this movie, in 2017 the miles and Gwen Stacy sitting in a tree comic was made. This inspired their romance in the movies. Do u know that earth-8is heavily implied to be the future of earth-65. Which means that no matter what that is Gwen’s future because she is meant to be with miles at the end no one else.
5. Their relationship was bad in the comics. Why try to redo it. I admit it was bad in the comics and it seemed really forced. But the writers and directors have done really well in this slow burn romance between them. And they have done really taking a leap faith developing their relationship more further instead of making them a couple straight away. That why everyone loves their relationship in the movie more than in the comic.
6. They are better being platonic than romantic: This is just joke. Honestly, both of them want to be a couple in the movies. Miles always had a crush on her and Gwen always had strong feelings for him. Gwen not only keeps her hairstyle just to remember miles. But also even before she met him. Gwen always changed her hairstyle because she didn’t know what suited her. But when miles gave her that haircut and liked it. She kept it. Because miles gave her attraction. Plus it will make no sense for them to be platonic like the comics at the end because we already had that in the first movie. And it’s literally stated in the art book Gwen wants to be with him and she already admitted her feelings for him by stating that in every other universe Gwen Stacy falls first Spider-Man. I swear these people a in denial.
7: Gwen Stacy will die, if they get together: OMG. Canon events are fake. Some are pathetic. Like this one. I read that script in this movie. And even before Gwen said the canon event. They both feel like there is some inevitability about each other. Literally, all the Gwen Stacy’s that died falling for Spider-Man are just normals Gwen’s not spider women. And plus why would miles say that there is a first time ever and at end have Gwen saying it’s all possible.
8: Blatent racism: I hate this with a passion. We are in 2024, and yet this is still a thing. I’m glad Phil lord and Chris miller are going to get miles and Gwen together and just ignore this blacklash. If people think that they can’t be a couple because of this. Omg. I literally don’t know what to say.
Miles and Gwen conclusion to this trilogy: The writers have said that they will be going deep on miles and Gwen’s relationship and miles actor said they will be further development in their relationship as well. When I look at the plot so far in beyond the spiderverse. It’s mostly about miles and Gwen’s continuation of their romance. And there will be a satisfying conclusion at the end of the movie. I reckon there will be a kiss scene and they will get together at the end of the movie.
The “They work better platonically” are some of the worst because it’s simply untrue it’s an insidious agenda to keep certain people apart, it’s funny it only gets applied to particular couples 🤔
@@greywarden5513 when it comes to this movie. These two are suited better romantically than platonic. Because they both want to be in a relationship but because of Gwen’s past and her believing in the canon events. Just limited and suppress her feelings. But miles always has hope that there is a first time for everything. Which at the end Gwen believes is true because it’s all possible now in her eyes thanks to miles.
Personally speaking I don't mind if Miles and Gwen get together, I don't like shipping in general so if I said they're better off platonically I'm just saying I like them as friends. But to each of their own
@@trinitygriffin5593 I respect ur opinion. Because some people don’t like couples in other movies. And also I never liked shipping people as well . I don’t say I ship them But I will say that I am rooting for them to get together because its what the audience wants and actually looking deep in it it’s what miles wants since the first movie and looking at the end of the first and throughout the second movie Gwen really wants to be in a relationship with miles. I will say this the directors and the writers always wanted them as well to be a couple in the first one. And their romance is inspired by earth-8.
When I look at it, their romantic tension and slow burning relationship it’s palpable between them. I think the writers have giving what’s going to happen at the end. By saying it’s going to be a satisfying conclusion to miles and Gwen story. I will say it’s 99.5% they will get together.
I bet a lot of people will realize that miles and Gwen love each other very much. There are things that annoys me when people say miles should date Margo and that’s not true because the only girl that miles loves is Gwen. And the other thing I hate is when people say Gwen is dating hobie which is not true at all. I mean come on, Hobie is 20 and Gwen is 16 like some people really don’t get it but a lot of people only ship Gwen and Miles. Most people are rooting for Miles and Gwen and it’s true that they are not platonic, they are romantic and they will have a satisfying conclusion which means Miles and Gwen will get together and their worlds will merge and it will become earth-8. Ghostflower is real and romantic.
I loved the Miles/Gwen dynamic in the first two movies so far, Miles general awkwardness is relatable.
Great video.
milesxgwen4ever
Gwen herself is also awkward.
@@windghost2I think it's a common thing for spider people to be a bit of socially awkward
@@saykou1070I know, I was just pointing out that Gwen is also awkward and it isn't just Miles.
I guess you could say, amazingly, this video was ultimately quite spectacular…
Haha thank you
This is All new and Different to me
@@an0rmalp3rson70 Good one
They just have really engaging chemistry.
Black cat to me is always best end goal for peter. I kinda wish they just had a storyline where Felicia gets pregnant by peter and they finally stop pussyfooting around and it puts the onus on peter to finally fix his life to have a family while being Spider-Man
ultimate spiderman 2024
She is not wife or mother material.
@@ms.divine4696 exactly
@@ms.divine4696 fax
She's stated on multiple occasions that she's after Spider-Man, not Peter. She doesn't want the real person underneath, she's just interested in the mask he puts on. The fake version of him. That's not healthy.
As a mixed race person (Central Asian and white), I'm so tired of "they can't be together, they're different races". Not just because it's racist but because I can't help but wonder to myself what the implication is supposed to be for people like myself or Miles (who is mixed Latino and black). Are we allowed to date anyone? Are we some kind of awful anomaly too gross to be touched? Do I have go seek out another person with my same mixture and get with them or else it's wrong? And the people who act as if they're 'woke' for being against interracial couples drive me nuts. They'll say things like "they're not equals" and think it's progressive and not, y'know, what it actually is - racist as hell.
31:21 *"This was the story they wanted to tell and focus on the Spider themed characters"*
Exactly. That's a core part of the Spider-Verse films, and a big departure from the comics. In the comics, Miles has a support group he could reliably fall back on whenever he's too stressed with Spider-Man stuff. This support group consists of his family, his girlfriend, and his best friend Ganke. They all know his secret identity and can tell what he's going through. Ganke in particular helps Miles ditch school whenever trouble comes up and is always in his corner.
However, the Spider-Verse movies have an underlying theme of "only people who get me are people like me". Only the Spider-People get other Spider-People. Gwen, Peter, Hobie, Pavitr, and (hell even) Miguel get how Miles feels. Movie Ganke and Miles don't give two shits about each other, and that's obvious if you look at the conversation they have.
Movie Miles and Ganke are obviously not BFFs the same way other versions of them are. Movie Jeff and Rio don't know Miles' identity and he has no one but the rest of the Spiders to fall back on.
The change obviously happened because they wanted to tell a different type of story, and that's ok.
9:00 Ok, that is adorable! And I also remember seeing a ton of hate towards Gwen. Most of which I disagreed with. (Although as a collector, I felt a part of my soul being ripped apart)
Side note: Hope you’re doing ok, man. I love watching your videos.
I will add on to the point of Gwen being influenced by Miguel (who was already a character it is quite possible she felt obligated to be loyal to, given he was her "savior") but there was also Jess, who was explicitly stated to be her mentor, and Peter B, who she was already close to given the events of the first movie. So thats THREE adults in her life she should be able to trust that are all telling her the same crap about Canon Events and anomalies. Before he went off the rails it also appears she has a fairly positive opinion of Miguel (she tells Miles he's a good guy, she jokes about him being "hangry"), but also is afraid of angering him (she tells Jess he's afraid he'll send her home after she messes up with the Spot). Point is, I absolutely understand why she did what she did: She was a scared teenager in a bad situation wno was taken in by someone who got her out of the situation AND gave her a purpose in life. I feel so bad for her and hate how people act like she's irredeemably evil because she hurt Miles (which she realizes was wrong and is trying to atone for.)
Also at this point in time there have been so many different versions of Spider people with Spider-Man characters as love interests the argument that Miles is with someone else in the comics and in the games is moot. The Exiles version of Miguel was in a romantic relationship with a variant of Gwen (and Mary Jane), I wonder if that means these people making this argument against Miles x Gwen are also going to argue that Gwen should be with Miguel because "the comics!" I'm sure that would go over about as well as a cement filled balloon.
"Omg, they're different races" My siblings in Christ, two of the major characters in this movie are biracial! Do Miles and Miguel give you the squickies because their parents are two different races? Or are you ok with Miles because "well at least one of his parents isn't white" and thus not tainting the pure white race (or being tainted by the filthy whites if you're of the alternate PoV) and you're ok with Miguel because you're pretending his dad isn't white or something. Good lord on a skateboard, this is making my head actually hurt.
Well said 💯 😎.
The "good lord on a skateboard" killed me
People working on the movie: i trust them.
Higher up: don't fuck this up.
Something that people don't realize about Latine, we aren't a race. Race, in terms of colour, that already takes us out, American nor Canadian are treated as a race of all white people with a consistent skin colour.
The fact that people tell us what race we are and that we are brown, but never black or white; despite the strong lines of heritage from mainly white European, black North and West African, and indigenous American. People just can't blanket our various countries and cultures, with a huge range of skin colours, and treat us as if we are just a monolithic race of people.
No sir, the only reason why Felix and Pepa doesn't qualify for your question, Jax, is simply because Felix isn't the leading/main character of the story. But Felix and Pepa are a mixed race couple, and will not entertain anyone that denies it because they're Laitine. If Americans can be white and black while still being American, what is it about being Latine that erases the fact that we are made up of different races that hail from different continents; just like Americans.
It's sad but unfortunately there isn't a lot of genuine empathy now a days especially on the Internet. Also to me spider-byte didn't really get a chance to know Miles let alone join Gwen and Peter's group to help Miles at the end of the movie.
This is a beautiful explation video of why gwen and miles work so well!! Awesome vid!!
35:50 that was dope. The best middle finger one could give.
40:36 looking at you Ash & Serena, I will never forget that moment 😭
As someone who caught up on the anime right when XY&Z was ending, it was unreal how much hype Ash & Serena got from the internet.
@@WebbedManiac yeah ngl the ship was kinda one sided like ash didn't seem interested even after the kiss
@@khaliyahjefferson832ash being an accidental ace icon /j
@@echoless3474 ya
It still continues to blow my mind that people still get upset about two fictional characters with super powers that cant be together because of their skin color. In Young Justice, Superboy dated a green martian for crying out loud.
The "not everything has to end up romantic" argument only EVER comes up en mass when it's an interracial relationship or a non-hetero one. That's the ONLY time you hear the majority of people online trying to use it.
Great work Jax 😎. I can't help but think that they should have immediately put Miles and Gwen together either in the second or first film.
I get that the first film was about Gwen opening herself up to having friends against and Miles becomes her first real friend since Peter. However, in the sequel I think it would have been even more interesting if they got together and it would have added to the drama later in the film.
To illustrate, if you'll indulge me. When Gwen visits Miles in his room. What if she had kissed him instead of hugging him, or perhaps when they talk upside down later they have their first kiss (re-creating one of their iconic comic book covers). Then that could submit that they are together. Have the scene where they swing around the city or eat at Miles's family's get together be their first official date. In addition, to the meeting the parents scene and then have the events that unfold later in the movie be their first fight or the thing that gets in the way of their relationship. A la what you see in most romantic comedies or stories.
Idk just a thought, hopefully they pay this off by having them actually kiss or something in the next film 🤔. Thank you if you read this far and have a blessed one everyone 😎.
I like miles and gwen together. They work really well
Over the past six years, I’ve seen more people mad at them being an interracial couple than anything else. I’ve only recently seen people complain that Miles should be with one of his love interests from his comics. And the “Miles had better chemistry with Spider-Byte!” crowd gets on my nerves as well. All I have to say to that is *46 seconds.*
Your editing is really good man
Thanks Jax. Good to have a positive voice out there.😊
If someone doesn’t vibe with a ship because they’re not the same race, then they’re automatically invalid. Like, this ain’t the 50’s….
This video put allll my feelings over the Ghostflower "divide" into words, thank you so much! Very well made video too, I'm def one of those people who will still get hyped for a slowburn couple's first kiss so here's hoping Beyond The Spiderverse will deliver
Glad to see you back man.
I appreciate the support my friend
@@JaxBlade Also, I'm sorry for your loss. Ramboh was the goodest boi 🐕🕊
Most underrated woman in the movie definitely is miles mom 😏
Sidenote: jaxblade the greatest wingman of all time
This was an amazing video. its soo refreshing seeing someone talk reasonably on RUclips
Great video! You dissected all the concerns people had with the pairing.
Great video!! Both movies have been absolutely spectacular. I loved the way you broke down the discourse and communicated your thoughts on this. Bonus points for the FMA reference.
I want them to be together so bad I love that Miles’s feelings for Gwen doesn’t cloud his judgement or his ability to see her mistakes. I love a slow burn. When miles semi confessed and Gwen was like “I missed you too” IT WAS EVERYTHING 😝
Loved the video! Keep it up brother 💜
Appreciate your support 🙏🏾
Awesome breakdown! I absolutely love Miles and Gwen and the way their relationship adds to each of their individual characters AND ties so beautifully to the themes of the movie. Such a great romance to depict on the big screen.
I've largely stayed out of a lot of the discourse, but appreciated you mentioning Finn and Rey from the sequel trilogy. Fandom-wise, this is the exact same story. Obvious misinterpretations and exaggerations to mask preference and/or racism. Unfortunately, the studio/writers didn't build on that great set-up from the first film for a romance, but I've got a lot of faith in the creators behind this franchise. It's clear they've had Gwen and Miles in their sights from the jump, and they'll see it through in a satisfying way.
Lastly, BLACK CAT FROM THE 90s CARTOON!!! Listen, I'm a big PeterMJ guy. I think they should almost always be endgame when Peter is Spidey. But...man...growing up on that series, it took me a while to realize the usual Black Cat interpretation is NOT the best for Peter because this one was so obvious.
Great video
I honestly don’t mind them being together or just end up being platonic. I’d be cool with it if they dated and I’d be cool with it if they ended up being friends as long as the writers find their way around it without throwing their relationship’s build up out the window.
Here to comment for the algorithm!! Great video!!
Watched the entire video great observation of the situation for folks like me as someone who didn't watch the movies. While you did bring up race as to why people don't like the ship, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are some that do like the ship to the point that they hyper-fetishize the ship because it's an interracial couple. Likely cause of interracial couples(especially a black man and a white woman) having the perception of being foreign or exotic (though can't say for certain). Overall great video and thanks for the insight!
Having a kiss interrupted is always my biggest pet-peeve for me, especially for a young boy like me back in the day as I get happily excited for the main character to get the girl. Only for that kiss to be interrupted by a comic relief or any character, let's hope that Spider-Ham doesn't do that to them.
#milesxgwen4eva
I so agree about Felicia and Peter in the animated series! I know Peter and MJ are supposed to be endgame but the dynamic with Black Cat/ Felicia was always better with both Peter and Spiderman in my opinion.
Hey, I'm just gonna straight up say thank you. I'm so grateful that you made this 'cause this is just so beautifully said. Ngl i was like 44 min... uhm but its worth watching every second like the Spiderverse movies. Things don't always are what they seem and when you actually connect the points it all comes together. I absolutely adore spiderman as a character I have to say that I need to get more information from comics and all but I'd say I have a good knowledge about the topic but this? This helps and makes it so much better than what I had in mind... Honestly i didn't know that complaints about them were THAT deep... I thought that it was all more about Gwen's betrayal and the way things were kinda cut between them (to of course be work in the next movie and obviously Gwen knows she was wrong and shows resentment and is willing to risk it all to do the right thing.) But either way some people are living under rocks at this point... Go outside and touch grass and kick rocks pls. I'm white, blue eyed and blond like Gwen and like her I don't give a damn about my partners race. I've dated and liked all kinds of people in terms of personalities, races and if there's something that I've never considered was that. Like Gwen I'm looking for love, happiness and someone I can hopefully have by my side for the rest of my life... Not his/her skin or anything. That's stupid and although it's a very common mindset and people are allowed to have their own preferences... It's still stupid to put someone down by their race. We're all human beings no race is superior and that's ok.
Back to the point tho, I'm very happy to get your points of view, although I really want Miles and Gwen to be together I understand and like the way they are taking things slowly and building their story. And for the love of god... Are people that blind to not see their chemistry? I'm pretty blind myself and I can barely see someone's face without my glasses but I can clearly see that they have both chemistry and their body language is very evident in all kinds of ways.
I never thought so deep into the black lead x white things in movies before but you're right. I couldn't think about anything in the lead that actually came to something serious. And that's honestly stupid... Some people might call this statement woke but I'm glad sociaty is finally giving that some more representation. Not only in couples but black characters in general taking Miles as a straight example... He's still wildly criticized by many people 'cause according to them "he's not supposed to be spiderman" or "he's just spiderman but black" no that's wrong. This is not only about representation but miles is his own character he's not Peter! He's Miles and that's one thing people miss in the Spiderverse movies and across the Spiderverse in special.
He's making his own story, and he's his own person he's gonna do his own thing regardless of what people have against him. That's some character I love and that's the kind of representation I like to see. I love Miles, I love Peter I love Gwen but, even their variants are different although they carry the same name and traces but that doesn't mean they are bad or better from each other. Being different and unique even when we're similar in some ways is what makes everything beautiful.
With this said I can't wait for your review when Beyond the Spiderverse finally comes out!
Anyways... I'm glad I found you man, you got yourself a new sub and I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your content.
This really opened my eyes and encouraged me to be true to myself and in what I believe so y'know. For that I'm really grateful.
Have a wonderful day/night.
And I hope you get to read this.
This is how a relationship should be written and felt natural. Great story writing. Still the film should not be 2 parts though in my opinion.
Trying to put both parts into 1 movie would hurt quality so i think 2 part is good choice, but i would preffered if they released part 1 at point when part 2 would be close to completion and we would see it maybe 5 or 6 months after first. Waiting for 2nd sucks.
Giving you the love! I’m glad to not be the only one to not get why miles x spider byte was a ship
yeah it's kinda weird plus I've seen some fanart of them but sometimes I've seen her with prowler Miles I mean it would interesting to see them interact but
I like them together, as far as the movies go. I'd like it if they took Miles's love interest Hailey from the Spider-Man 2 game and integrate her to the comics.
Good video man. Feels like you shouldn’t have to address these things, but after those Valentines Posts the official BTSV accounts did, a lot of this anti-Gwen/Miles sentiment resurfaced on social media. A lot of misunderstanding of Gwen’s position and her thought process. I especially love how you called out some of these bad arguments being a mask for peoples racial biases, coming from both white and black haters. Keep it up man.
Yeah finn was done dirty in star wars. He was the character who had the most potential in the sequels.
When people argue not every girl and boy who share screen time should be couple against Miles × Gwen i side eye hard cause they all jumped to try ship Miles with 1st black on screen who looked at Miles. Despite all the time an sweet momemts Miles has had with Gwen building up to them as endgame.
I know this is probably not the main reason, but if their genders were flipped (with Miles being a girl and Gwen being a boy) they would be way more popular, cause GhostFlowers fits one of those cliche couple trope of the Broody (usually older) boy x the Cheerful (usually younger) Awkward girl. I know they’d also be popular for other race related reasons too (since those twitter qrt never complained about Hailey Bailey’s Little Mermaid) but a gender flipped version of this ship trope would always ended up being less popular than its counterpart, given how the hatred for it is more saturated than the love.
Also I really think they should’ve kept Gwen apologizing for ripping off the figures cause girl…?? Lol
MilesxGwen4eva
Miles x Gwen foreva
You should make more video essays!!
1.2k like. Omg finally someone's talking about the elephant in the room great video bro keep up the good work.
I have always been a Ghostflower fan since the first movie. Your in depth explanation is so nice and helpful 😁 miles x gwen 4ever
Great video dude
Awesome work Jax keep going.
This is similar to Lui Kane and Princess Kitana form Mortal Kombat, it was more about classism, same with beast boy and raven, even star fire and night wing/robin people will often put barriers cause they must love their own.
To add to you point with not every universe need the same love intrest, with robin there's even a version of him who gets with raven
Even in the Spider-Man franchise we have alternate characters with different love interests.
Exiles Miguel, for example, was in love with both a version of Gwen Stacy (who died of course) AND a version of Mary Jane Watson (who he was killed in front of.)
@@nightmarefanatic1819 exactly 💯
It doesn't so much bother me, considering the current Marvel Cinematic Universe lore. My only real issue is that it isn't comic canon, and that same issue comes up for me in lots of the liberties taken with establishing the current MCU lore in general. I just feel that when there are literal DECADES of reference material they can do a better job about keeping established things canon.
I love this video. ^^ it's a positive analytic video and I'm for this. 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Great vid! can you go into more detail about what you thought of Nimona, please?
Damn, I've only seen one and that movie was hella forgettable... Black male Leads really do need to get their interracial kiss count and relationship count up.
God damn, that's depressing.
27:36 I need to know you got the fanart from! I want that top right image of Miles sleeping on Gwen holding a cat in particular! 😍🥰
Oh that’s by idrawnyc on Instagram I got some of their work prints too
@@JaxBlade Thank you so much! 😌🤟
MILESXGWEN4EVA!!
Thx for this insightful video always like the things you post dude ^^
Also my condolences for your dog. Loss can be a terrible feeling, but all we can do is keep our memories of them alive and keep moving forward.
Naw im ready to fight over that erza x jellal stuff especially when you hear how fairy tail was supposed to end after the tower of heaven arc. And fairy tail if you noticed up to that point had heavily shipped natsuxerza especially that double panel of natsu holding erza telling her to never do something like that again 😭
Oh ya, i thought Natsu had a crush on Erza after I saw that scene
I’m gunna be honest I’ve been thinking about this video and the problem with what this argument is because there is only one side that’s right at the end of the day I’ve been a fan of Spider Gwen for years sense she was introduced and I’m confused why people are against it people love who they love if there coloured or not if plus sized or not people love who they love I don’t get how people argue that they can’t be together simply because of there skin colour it’s sad how people don’t get that.
Also MilesXGwen4ever
Okay I got no problems with Miles dating Gwen. He’s with Vultures granddaughter and his relationship with Hailey is sweet. Whatever happens next for those two in the next film I hope they end up on good terms no matter friends or a couple. But I’m a sucker for romance and part of me hopes they will be together. At least in one universe they are married and have kids 😊.
Dosnt that mean that 1 of them would need to literally leave their whole WORLD behind? That is one HUGE sacrifice. And yeah they might do a visit, but outside of big crisis dimensionhopping seeems like big NO for good responsible hero. 🤔
Add - I forgot 1 more imp. thing, seems like world left without its spidey protector gets so much worse (look at Miles/Prowler-s world of crime and on fire), thats 1 more thing to consider.
There is one universe in the comics where that happens
@@an0rmalp3rson70 I know that’s why I said at least.
@@marcussantos4816 ah, I read thought you was hoping there was, my mistake
@@an0rmalp3rson70 it’s no problem
This was a good deconstruction
Hey JaxBlade you seem very knowledgeable about Marvel comics I want to get into the comics but I don't know where to start reading do you have any good places to start reading for a beginner. Keep continuing your amazing content 👍
40:24
Ok this is because Japan is very particular about kissing in media, which is directly related to how relationships are handle in public society.
For we Americans handholding and public kissing is very normal.
But for Japanese these things are considered very important, you do not handhold or kiss in public almost never.
I think for me personally I didn’t ship them after the first movie though they definitely had a solid friendship blooming, and the second movie I can definitely see the romantic connection, baby I love Mona Lisa, I love Another Dimension, but it was kinda derailed by the betrayal. I understand where shes coming from, why she did what she did, but if I was in the situation there is no us at least not for a long time, trust is sooo important.
No lie your the reason i skip trailers when its a known ip and it actually brings more enjoyment
Sigh... Copyright trying to hold ghostflower down bro hate to see it. Hopefully it gets double the views of the last one.
I dont have a problem with it but it just feels strange/different, like if Mary Jane Watson was in a relationship with Miguel O'Hara or if Betty Ross and Steve Rogers became an endgame relationship. I'll need to see more of it to get used to it because I'm just to used the idea of Gwen with Peter.
Not even close to the same. This version of Gwen never dated Peter. And Miguel O’Hara did have his own Gwen Stacy.
@@Treck533 Yeah, that's why I'm okay with it, but it's still strange to me. Like the character and concept of Gwen Stacy being Peter's love interest, there's that little bit of cognitive dissonance. Again I don't have a problem with it but having that preconception of who she's supposed to be with is a little disorienting.
An Alternate Reality Miguel O'Hara (Exiles variant nicknamed Dr. Miggy) had a FF Gwen Stacy who perished in an Incursion and then went on to marry E-928's Mary Jane Watson (who never met Peter in that timeline)...Then both Alt Miguel and Alt MJ were murdered by a multiversal Spider-Man villain who was the catalyst for the comics Spider-Verse arc.
Default/OG Miguel had Xina (Childhood First Love), Lana (Second Love he cheated on Xina with and stole from his brother who he married then they split so she slept with his biological father then she died) and finally Tempest Monroe (True Love and second wife that became the mother of his son named after the brother).
Comics they're flarking wild.
22:07 My Peak!! John Shayera to this DAY, hits different
MilesxGwen4eva, If you do more of these types of videos Imma be down.
1st I love how you handled the more sensitive topic of racism and didn't blame any one side and basically boiled it down to the fact of any one having issue with a relationship based on race is the issue.
2nd I think the issues you are noticing and pointing out of "bruh did you see the same movie" are coming down to a loss of media literacy. They subtly and realistically planted the seeds of a possible romance in the first movie. In the second movie what I see is Gwen and Miles crushing on each other but both of them not knowing the extent of the other's feelings or even fully understanding their own feelings. They are in this stage where no one wants to push or force it forward into explicit romance (whether that's not wanting to lose friendship or not understanding one's own feelings or both), but it is exciting to let it blossom on its own. But with that realistic storytelling comes people who can't see it, like your friends who could see those two "cooking." I actually watched a video by Schnee where he talks about the upside down scene being one of the best romance scenes because there is no explicit romance in it. It is such a well done, and natural relationship that modern audiences can't pick up on it (hopefully a vocal minority). If it isn't a blatant shouting of affection in media they don't pick up on it. I've had those hours long travel conversations and was able to put my experiences onto the interactions we see with Miles and Gwen as I watched the movies. I think people are either having less of these slow growing real relationships and/or a harder time of being able to relate their emotions and experiences into media.
3rd The fact that people think Gwen betrayed Miles has no real empathy or ability to understand human choices and emotions. I am not sorry. At the same she gained a way to see miles; she lost the last person close to her and was told she isn't allowed to go see him by the same new people she found a family with. Peter's line "this isn't what we discussed" obviously showed that Gwen and Peter were talking to Miguel about trying to talk to and bring Miles into the Spider Society. Show couldn't go rogue and tell Miles his dad is going to die because then both she and Miles would never be allowed to see each other and shut out of the Spider Society. She was doing the best she could to see Miles and get him to be able to hop dimension with her. When she had the opportunity to get away with seeing him she INSTANTLY went directly to him but still unable to tell him everything due to what I just said. Anyone who thinks they would do something other than what Gwen did is lying. Only after getting locked out of the Spider society, reuniting with her dad and his support and the support of Hobie is Gwen able to do what everyone said she should have done in the first place.
milesxgwen4evaaaaaa
THANK YOU for making this video! i genuinely enjoyed every minute of it. i usually don't comment much,,, cuz there's too much i want to say lol but i'll pick one that's the most important to me. spiderverse has always been in my heart ever since i watched the first movie came out, it was the kind that i would watch endlessly and never ever ever ever ever evre ever get bored of it. i was still a kid back then and honestly i was glad that the first movie didn't throw in gwiles romance immediately bc i hated cliches and their blooming relationship and interactions made it feel more relatable and realistic. i actually loved the ending and i'm glad they stayed as friends. but after this movie, oh boy how can you not love them together??? seriously. they give me pure serotonin. at this point anybody who are against them being together are just completely close minded. that's just my opinion though, but otherwise as long as it gives anybody happiness in a healthy way, i don't say why not :) your video just expanded my love for these movies again! can't wait to enjoy the next movie in the big screens!!!!
Words cannot express my excitement and anticipation for Beyond the Spider-verse 😍
One thing is. Its going to be a hard road for Miles if they have the same writers of Spiderman because those guys dont believe heroes should be happy in love. They actually admitted it.That is the reason why Peter is back to being single. First death of Gwen. Then after 25 years of marriage with MJ. Made them break up and forget about their marriage. MJ slams a couple dudes then brought back together. Then broke up again after MJ gets slammed yet again with another dude. For me I think good endings are hard fought and earned and Morales and hopefully for Peter one day gets what they deserve. To be happy with someone. I stopped reading the Spiderman writers nonsense after they were straight blunt about their stance on relationships in comics.
Currently Miles in a relationship with Tiana Toomes in the comics at the moment. So he's doing alright, Peter's... not doing well at the moment.
@@windghost2 That doesnt really add much to what may happens later. Everyone has their feel good comic episodes than gets dumped on later. Peter did have some happy moments too. Then reboot or some other bad things happen and MJ gets railed by another dude.
@@vagabond4576 It’s basically different writers wanting to do different things with Peter and Miles respectively.
40:18 Same here G
Cause you asked (and I want to help the algorithm for this repost) to the "long drive to romance" prompt, I had a 3 hour lyft drive (the valley to LAX during mid day ain't no joke) was long enough for my very attractive driver to drop me her number and suggest we have a date when I returned home. (Which also went well) a 3 hour drive with a stranger definitely can do some work
Let’s go!
Totally ship it
Honestly i do acknowledge how good they'd be together and i'm probably being too hard on Gwen but i felt like she was the cause of what Miles went through, like had she just stayed away and watched him from a distance or sum it may have beem better. Would have been horrible storywriting though and worse if she came after his dad died. Takeaway they're cute and i'm for it. 😂
I have not seen any issues with this except among racists