How Two Cartoons Changed the AU Villain
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2024
- One day I might make a good thumbnail by myself ... but it is not this day.
Heavy Spoilers' vid on Miles-42 clues: • SPIDER-MAN Across The ...
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My favorite theory about our Mark being one of the good ones? His late puberty in gaining his powers definitely played a big part in this! This aspect gave Mark a human upbringing rather than a Viltrumite one, something I think AU Invincibles likely lacked.
I like it very much, because imo omni man's speech could've never sweep Mark on its own,, imo man's whole thing is that he didn't understand how much earth changed him, therefore he can't make a speech like Anissa's
I hadn't considered that before, but it definitely makes a lot of sense. He had less time with Viltrum propaganda, plus less time to train/get too cocky about his powers. People joke about Mark getting his butt kicked all the time, but it teaches the kid humility.
The best one I've heard is that there are good marks but ours was one of the only ones that survived
I also think that aspect of mark growth made a change in Omniman, he started to wonder "what IF he never develops powers", and he slowly started to warm up to the idea of loving his human family as it is, thats why when mark awakens his powers he snaps back from that and takes action to end the guardians.
@@monsieurtoutlemonde1549 I think if Anissa had been the one to talk to mark before Omni man, Mark would've joined the empire. Omni man was too battle hardened, he literally didn't know how to talk to someone based on their judgment and mortality. He had raised mark for years and literally didn't even know what his own kid valued, because he was so used to battle that he couldn't consider "value". His enemies valued their lives and the survival of their species... Boohoo. Values and morals are irrelevant in battle.
Anissa, being younger and still battle hardned but less legendary, can see those distinctions, she understands that mark has different values than viltrumites. Even though she hasn't spent a second on earth, she knows, implicitly, that mark values the quality of life of the people he grew up with because that's what all social species want. They want the species to do better. So she speaks to mark on that level, she understands and empathises with him that "you should want us to rule, it will make humanity better" instead of "you should want us to rule because then we won't crush you personally".
I think alternate marks probably had that from Omni man, or had been groomed enough for it to not be necessary.
What really snapped Mark from joining his dad was when he talked down to his mom as a 'pet'. Other than that, he most likely would've joined in.
I’ve thought the same thing
i know this is a different story and company, but it is similar to star lord in gotg2. he was on board with joininrg ego until he said that he killed his mother
that and the way his mom raised him
I disagree Mark wouldn’t have joined his dad or he would’ve but then stopped as soon as he saw how the Viltrumites or his dad would’ve acted towards humans.
Mark is far from a sociopathic egocentric maniac he just wouldn’t do it
I think Mark would have joined Omni-Man if he had not talked to Eve. Because in the episode, he had just got dumped by Amber, and William wasn't really being helpful with Mark's situation. If Omni-Man had reworded what he was saying to Mark, he might have went down the Viltrumite path.
One thing I liked about about the evil version of Mark at the beginning of the season is that he acts like our Mark. He’s mostly kind of chill. He’s just basically doing a job. It’s just that he was brainwashed by Viltrumite propaganda. Like he legit believes that it’s earth people’s fault that they are killing people. He even told Eve that he couldn’t allow her to hurt anymore people.
I think the key difference is that in theee universes omniman may have convinced Debbie and Mark how important it was to comply with the Viltrum Empire.
Consider all the horrible thigns that Mark does, including the crippling of Eve. In order for him to be completely fine with that, he would have to have been a monster even before that.
Somehow I doubt this Mark got bullied in school. If anything, HE probably was the bully.
In most universes Mark got his powers earlier, meaning more Nolan influence and less Debbie influence. In others Debbie sided WITH Nolan.
@@ZenKrio I find the latter very hard to believe. Sure, multiverse and all that jazz, but the main problem with Nolan's argument is that he doesn't HAVE an argument.
Also, if Omni Man posed as a hero in all those other realities, then Mark STILL grew up with the wrong impression that his father was a selfless heroic figure and that his people where benevolent.
It wasn't Debbie's influence that made Mark want to be a Hero. It was Omni Man's heroic exploits.
@@Alexander_Kale What you say makes sense, but it's shown in the comics, show, and by Nolan himself that it was Debbie that make Mark soft. Mark even says that he doesn't care about VILTRUM, he cares about the Earth, his friends and his family, Nolan's influence isn't why he's fighting against it, at least in OUR Universe.
@@ZenKrio It is never shown in the comics, what are you talking about? Mark barely interacts with Debbie at all. It's one of his great failings in my opinion, that he does not support or seem to care for his grieving mother at all, even as she descends into alcoholism.
Heck, in the first season he even threatens her at one point.
And yeah, Nolan spend the first 15 or so years of Mark's life being the single greatest role model for heroism a boy could have. Of course that had a profound influence on Mark.
Another thing to point out about Levy’s comment about ‘most versions of Invincible join his father’ is while yes, we know there are other good Invincible’s, we don’t know how many of them survive the fight with Omni-man/the Viltrumites. It could be that for every 10 heroic Invincible’s, 8 die before they can stop the invasion or save Earth.
What about the SSR Good Omni Man?
@@gregsanders61 haven't been in the summon for a long time
Something I just realized: Angstrom says he's seen other good Invincibles, albeit rarely, but when he meets Oliver he says he's the first one he's encountered. I wonder if that's a hint about what makes our Mark unique?
Omni man had Oliver because he left earth after Mark didn’t join him, so if Mark joined him Omniman never would have left, and never had Oliver.
It can be argued that Oliver is a sign of Mark’s impact on Nolan as well as Nolan trying to “restart and make amends” for how he last treated Mark.
@@cholla9176Yeah, but the point here is that there HAVE been other good Invincibles who didn't join Omni-Man, yet only the Invincible universe we follow has an Oliver while the others, who were also good and may have even drove Omni-Man away as well, didn't.
good invincibles are the result of a different Nolan, one that caused Mark to turn out "good". So it is not surprsing that they would be equally or even more rare than good Marks...
The only reason Oliver exists is because Nolan left earth. If Mark joined with him, why would he leave Earth?
@@Alexander_Kale That a good Invincible is a result of a different Nolan is NEVER stated in the show, and honestly your point doesn't make... any sense at all to me? Besides, if anything, it's more likely a good Mark is dependent on his mother.
Like I said, though, I think the point the OP was making was that if other universes have good Invincibles who don't join Omni-Man, one of three interesting things must be true if Oliver has NEVER been encountered before: either only this Mark has ever driven Nolan away without killing him; only this Mark actually met his father again and/or reconciled with him; or only this Nolan found his way to Thraxia/was influenced enough to actually make a life there. Either way, it's most likely the result of some kind of positive change in regards to Mark and Nolan's relationship that's almost unique to our universe, which has some interesting implications.
Imagine Angstrom and The Spot teamed up, since they're both technically part of the same multiverse
They’re not?
Invincible and spider-man had a crossover in the comics
@@davidehrhardt4135 so? What does that have to do with spiderverse
@lazerfrogstudios MARVEL Comics has tied the Spider-Verse comics into the Insomniac videogames. The videogames are tied into the Spider-Verse movies. Invincible comics crossed over with Spider-Man in the comics. In the Invincible cartoon, Agent Spider says he's recently had a lot of multiverse experience, nodding toward the Spider-Verse movies.
So, in a roundabout way, Invincible's comics and cartoon are tied to Spider-Man comics and the Spider-Verse movies.
@@ChateauLonLon that literally impossible because the show and the comics of invincible can NOT be in the same multiverse, because there’s only one of angstrom because he uses a bunch of other versions of himslef who all died, so there’s no way that could’ve happened again
The only valid “here’s why I’m a villain trope” use is Doofensmirtz
2:30 my favorite AU villain speech HAS to be phineas and ferb across the second dimension. Because it's a parody of that trope and it's hilarious.
Anybody know what show that clip was from at 0:47?
@@someannoyingcommentatorI believe it’s from the show generator Rex
Fun Fact: Emilio Treviño, voiced both Miles and Mark in the Latin Spanish Version of the movie and show respectively
If you’ve read the comic, it’s more like Mark is more of the AU Hero. Since most versions of Invincible ends up joining his father and the empire
The show points that out too, hell I spend a good chunk of the video talking about that lol
His pride for his human side... Compassion.. Omni Man is starting to feel this just now...
As well as the capacity for humility and remorse, something counterbalanced by Angstrom being so utterly consumed by several traumatic instances across the many minds inside him that he can only see himself as the victim and Mark, every Mark, as the one who wronged him.
Not only is Mark’s compassion treated as the tether to his “humanity”, but also his ability to feel guilt and shame when he does do wrong, something that appears missing from his other variants, who either lack moral compasses or simply indulge in their power. Mark beginning to lose sight of this as the decisions he has to make become less clear, the more he appears as though the only choices he can make are cruel, are what is at stake for his character just as much as the threat of the Viltrumite invasion.
He says most JOIN with his father. This isn’t really a spoiler but in the comics there was one mark that said he killed his father in battle but was still evil. So it’s not just him teaming up with his dad making him evil, which is terrifying to think.
Looking at other comments and coming to my own conclusion, I think the most important thing is his connection to his Humanity. There are several reasons why this becomes more present in his life, but I think the one likely to contribute to this most is him being a "late-bloomer" to his abilities. Being a late bloomer allowed for him to connect more with his Mom than his Dad, which also changed his perspective for his Father as Omni-Man. To him Omniman was a hero who could save the powerless or the weak, like himself, and his Mother was the best supporter to it emotionally. Him being just as weak and vulnerable as any other human, allowed for him to see the nessisity to protect, and gain a greater connection with his mom, who also helped grew him to be a good man due to that connection. I think the catalyst for it is for sure that, and from that he also got influenced in other ways, due to living in a different world than a "viltrumite" would.
Another comment pointed this out, but him being a late bloomer also meant he got his ass whooped A LOT in his early super career which helped him stay humble.
@@J-manli Indeed
Anybody know what show that clip was from at 0:47?
Wait till you hear about the Invincible Wars
Prowler miles isn't evil. He's a batman-style hero. It's why aaron's on his side. It's why he captures miles despite not having any good reason to do so. It reflects on his good nature in every verse.
And to add onto the sheer terror that first alternative Mark brought in episode one of season 2, the last episode of the season reinforced how legitimately terrifying the other Marks were. Between Caped mark(sinister Mark) killing a child to the Mark that executed those people in a line, it all added a new level of horror as to how they could ever get to that point.
When I read the title I was expecting a video about The Spot and Angstrom Levy and while both are great villains I found this topic to be more captivating. The idea of both Miles Morales and Mark Grayson choosing evil in other universes due to unknown factors is incredibly compelling and makes you wonder what it would take for the prime versions to break. The line that stuck out to me the most is how you said Invincible Prime being the outlier means that the others didn’t turn evil but that he turned GOOD.
I think this is where the Flashpoint Batman succeeds. He’s more morally grey than the OG Batman. He never says he’s a hero or a villain. He’s a vigilante through and through, only focused on his end goal of stopping the Joker
The Miles Morales Spiderman series is my favourite movie series ever. It's just pure art combined with amazing music and phenomenal writing. It's perfect. I actually watched the second film multiple times in cinemas, because I love it so much. I cant wait for the 3rd one.
I think debbie asking mark if being superior makes him feel good and then mark realizes made him unique compared to the other versions
I watched this video expecting it to be some random RUclipsr with 2M subs and to see this level of quality on such a relatively small channel is beautiful
That line from Angstrom always bothered me, the multiverse theory proposes that there are infinite worlds all varying in drastic or simple ways, so there can't be a MOST of anything, there is always just infinite of something. So I take it to mean more that Angstrom has just encountered more of the universes that Mark and Omniman have teamed up and taken over the Earth rather than the others where they lost, or Mark was good, or Mark lost and Omniman won, or any other variation of that event. Which if you look at the alternate hims he gathered in episode 1, and the flashbacks he sees in episode 8, it seems that's the case. Because he just so happened to pick a bunch of Angstrom Levi's that have an intimate history with evil Invincibles.
That makes a lot of sense, and it's also a little weird that there is one Angstrom Levy born with the ability to access "all" universes. Just that word - "all" - feels weird in the context of infinity, though I'm no scientist so maybe that's a false assumption. Regardless, in an infinite multiverse there would be infinite Angstroms with the same ability. Rick & Morty had a similar problem, with Rick saying stuff like "we only have 4 more of these dimensions, tops" - either writers have trouble contextualizing infinity, or the characters are simplifying by omitting the "I have discovered" part of their statements.
@@UnholyBasil Writers of Rick and Morty would say something like that, and then go and show they do have an understanding of multiverse theory by making the central finite curve, which frankly was one of the most unique takes on multiverse mechanics I've seen in a show. I think they just come up with episode ideas and jokes first and think about the actual theoretical science later.
While I agree with you in saying that it’s most likely that Armstrong does not have knowledge of the entire multiverse, you’re wrong about the “infinity” concept.
It’s DEFINITELY possible to have larger and smaller infinities, as odd as it sounds.
Think about if you had a sequence of numbers that went:
221 221 221 221…….(continues forever)
Even though there are undeniably infinite ones and twos, there are twice as many twos as ones.
The justice league unlimited show did it really well. If it wasn't for the fact that Superman is Superman and will always be good, we were unsure if the alternate universe was an alternate universe or simply the future. The pressure it put on him and the vast criticism he endured because of it seemed like it would be enough to push him over the edge. It was really satisfying to see him exercise restraint in a way that we don't really see enough of in my opinion. I've never seen a story push superman's character as much as that arch did and still believably come out the other side as a shining example to humanity.
7:26 to crush your hopes, the only info we have kn him is that he's s a vigilante, not a villain
Fax, this take that Prowler Miles is a straight up Villain really turned of away. It's way too simple and I highly doubt this is the direction Spiderverse is going.
Yeah he’s almost certainly not gonna be a villian
Idk dawg, I don't think a simple vigilante would refuse to let a different version of himself go so he can save his dad. Miles G. gave zero shits about his alternate self's situation, that's pretty evil imo
@@Guy25096you’re staring down high odds and calling them low, which takes guts. That’s pretty admirable
@@UnholyBasil idk I see where you’re coming from but he may think it’s a villain that was trying to take his place or something. It just seems too simple to say he’s just a villain tbh but that’s just my opinion who knows 🤷♂️
Miles Morales will forever be known as the Identity Thief in Chief.
One of my favorite AUVs is Scourge not only does he try to break away from being JUST the evil twin but when he start giving the cliche speech, Sonic turns it back on him saying that Scourge’s greatest fear was that Scourge could have been just like Sonic
What makes Prowler Miles work is theories were there of the possibility frame one. In the sound track of Into the Spiderverse, the theme of The Prowler slowed down was just Miles's theme. We saw the Spider that bit Miles glitch out like the other spider people in the first film and then further confirmed in Across the Spiderverse.
I think this channel is dangerously underrated from this video alone, It was really attention grabbing! I'm excited to watch more
When the 42 Prowler showed in Theaters.
Thats his Dad- Wait no hes too thin….. His Mom!!!
No wait hes got Nik- Ohhhhhhh
Mark’s morals are his biggest weakness & problem. He has 0 intrigue & his powers don’t compensate for that to add insult to injury, he tries to fit a square into a circle. When he fought that Kaiju in the South Pacific, my first thought was “Why doesn’t he pierce it, like he’s seen Omniman do plenty of times” he didn’t & people were injured & could’ve died, then the Viltrumite girl did it & I thought “That could’ve been you but no, now you just look weak” then that brain guy had to snap Debbie’s arm for Mark to actually do something when he could’ve stopped him when he was destroying the bug devices in the house (he temporarily had his hand off of Debbie’s neck).
BROOO, YOURE SO GOOD, im gonna binge your whole channel, super well made video loved the invicible title card and the little "i couldnt resist" was really funny, good work!!!
It is nice to see the au hero i feel it is less used.
Can confirm. Half the examples I used here don't technically fit, but they were the closest I could think of in the time I gave myself. That never happened with any of my previous videos; examples of this trope are thin on the ground.
@@UnholyBasil a uncannon au villian would be villian deku. Or the sexy female villian deku that Bakugo broke the heart of.
@@UnholyBasil a good joker is a au hero. Always welcome the villian going hero. That is why i love Harley Quinn.
My Favorite use of this trope is definitely the 90's Spider-Man's Spider-Carnage! Not only was he an evil AU Spidey but we also got see of the evil choices he made that amplified his dark side. He was finally stopped by not just our Spidey but a living Uncle Ben who got to the heart of Spider-Carnage😊 Great Video my friend, I'll be sure to subscribe for more❤❤
"im evil now no explanations needed"
morgana from merlin literally had an OFFSCREEN villain arc and if that aint both hilarious and iconic idk what is
I love villains that are same character just in an alternate universe! It’s like a taste of what true multiverse theory is, could be better
First video of yours to pop up in my feed. I dig your format and how you explain things.
Season 3 is gonna slap so hard
I’m personally a huge fan of how they did this with Dr. Doofenshmirtz in the phineas and ferb movie
I like to think that aside from a few differences with Mark but also differences with Nolan himself I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan was more 'human' than his counterparts
1:40 Albedo is a completely different character. If you wanted an evil AU Ben, you could’ve used footage from And Then There Were None
Shiet yeah that would've been a lot better. Probably gonna do different intros for vids like these in the future, these ones where I dig for examples tend to get dubious and distract from the conversation the video's meant to have. Good catch!
I can also think of one other place. That doesn't better than both community where we see. Exactly what happens not in a flashback or a monolog, but actually happening. And it only takes a few minutes The rest of the episode has been set up for this moment, the same moment. Just setting up the Domino's and then knock them down. And how those Dominos are like building blocks. And I'm not talking legos. I'm talking about actual buildings. This has the same effect of hundreds of thousands of people dying. think Superman v Zod Same emotion, same feeling. And ultimately it has the same message as the joker one bad day And it adds something extra to it One bad day can be caused by missing. One thing, 1 person, even if it's for just a single moment.
The Varian usage gives me life. Awesome video!
That Justice Lords opening was awesome..... I don't care what anyone thinks....lol
Yeah I didn’t understand why he put the justice lord Superman clips in there because the justice lord arc is fucking fire.
Wow I really like this video, it had a lot of interesting things to say that I hadn't really thought about
This was a fun watch. I love hearing people's thoughts on Invincible as someone who's read the entire mainline comic 😊 There's so much more interesting things in store, look forward to it!
Whats odd is that I'm usually really good at seeing twists coming. I knew who the villains of Personas 4 and 5 were just from seeing each character once, I knew Adachi was the murderer in P4 due to his throwing up scene, I asked throughout the game why he'd need to show that if he was irrelevant? P5 Akechi was clearly Light Yagami from Death Note, so I knew he was a murderer. But in Spiderverse 2, I had no clue what was actually coming until it did.
Just wanna say that this was a great video, keep it up and you’ll definitely get big in this niche
8:31 also in the scene qhere miles 42 walks towards miles before the reveal, we hear form a radio from j.j. jashon thay the sinister six are attacking the city. So that is the explanation to the many crimes that happen in this city
Dude Amazing content, I thought i was listening to a channel with like 4 million views! Keep grinding bro, love your stuff.
bro, you need to upload more often, you make killer videos man!
My theory is that maybe Earth 42 Miles doesn't have a huge reason. Maybe Earth 42 was always filled with crime, and Jeff just died doin what he wanted to. Being a hero. Miles always had a closer relationship with Aaron, so that's probably who Earth 42 Miles spoke more to as well, and when he was given the opportunity to be the Prowler, he just took it. There was no motivation behind it except it came from his Uncle.
First two? Come on man, you included the DCAU Justice Lords, they build to that probability throughout Unlimited and even have our Superman do some of the things the Justice Lord Superman did... And it made for a compelling argument why Waller didn't trust the League.
Loved this video, you did a great job with it!
Fantastic video loved the in-depth analysis
Honestly this kind of makes me wand to see a show where you follow a hero that becomes a villain in the episode and than you cut to a alternate universe where he didn't fall and you see that universes hero fall as well in a different way and repeat
What a great video!!
I see this channel getting huge, great video man
This video was fire bro if you just start uploading once every one to two weeks you'll blow up
5:25 Man really thought he could quote All Star without us noticing...
Man really thought I didn't want him to notice me quoting All Star
Love this video, definite subscribe!
I'm pretty sure it's heavily implied that Prowler in Earth-42 is an anti-hero
I remember seeing something that theorized that the two miles destinies switched when the spider was transported. Like it was show to be in earth 42 miles classroom before being removed which could have indicated that it would have bitten that miles. And that when miles met Peter Parker in the first movie and they had the spider sense moment, miles colors shifted from the prowlers colors to Spider-Man’s colors like Peter Parker which could have indicated the shift
I loved this!! Im sad they delayed the finale but it's gonna go SO HARD
i have an alt au for my story but they are pretty much verisons of the mc who failed or got corrupted but another turned villian has been trying to put them to rehab tor eshape and mold them, they also see this new verison of themselvces and are like will he fall like us or will he better at first theres a confrontation but soon they are meet with a confirmation of who the mc is
Personally, I like the alternate universe villain more so because it's a "free villain factory" and a what if scenario than to have the dread
Lil bro. Looking at the leaked beyond the spiderverse footage, its pretty clear this man a vigilante.
4:08 I see a pun here but there is none T-T great video so far!
Jesus Christ this channel needs more recognition. Hell I clicked it thinking it was some random big review channel till I went to the comments
Love the mat pat reference
I feel like they made it clear that Debbie was the difference in Invincible being good or evil
This is just so peaceful
Something I've been wondering about Aaron-42--is he supposed to be Earth 42's Kingpin? Like, maybe Kingpin's activities killed Miles' dad, then Aaron finally snapped, killed Kingpin, and took over?
I wonder how you'll react when the next spiderverse film starts with Earth-42 miles not being a villian😭
the thing about invicible is that Angstrom tells Debbie that she joins Mark and Omni man an many universes
Though you already know because you showed clips from JlU, but I think JLU unlimited pulled it off perfectly. Making the question of what separates the Justice league from the Justice lords the leading conflict in Unlimited seasons 1 and 2 long after the Justice lords were already defeated was brilliant. Because although it was a question in the original 2-parter, the conclusion was foregone until Unlimited where the leagues morality and power is questioned.
I actually didn't pull clips from JLU, just the original Justice League cartoon. It's interesting to know they call attention to that grey area in JLU, the Justice Lords arc itself I felt kinda ruined the shock factor by having Batman(s?) explain outright the reasons the League went evil. Hence, why I made this video lol
@UnholyBasil I agree, that and the original conclusion being that not having the flash caused them to go down that road isn't very compelling. The questioning and later subversion of that pre-established conclusion in the season 2 finale is great and really works to retroactively fix/add to the original arc without changing anything with the continuity.
Great essay
I think THIS universe is different in 2 major ways. I think his dad did MORE actual hero work and that gave more time for his mom to raise him or there was less fighting and that gave the mom more time to teach the dad to learn about humans and how precious life is (I believe in the latter). That's just me and I don't know anything about the comics but I'm looking forward to find out
I feel the opposite.. but it's rough. I always knew alternate universes were odd an unfair writing tactic that lets you get away with bad writing.
"this character died!" *NUH UH*
"An alternate version of this character (because DUH, you'd be stupid to not expect that! Even though they look literally identical) teleported in to replace them!"
If there's infinite multiverse's than there's *more than 1* good version. Unarguable. Saying "this character is evil by default, its just this one thats good!" is beyond a subversion of expectations. They straight up deny the multiverse theory while using it to prop up their entire story on alternates universes./.
Similar take was shared here a couple days ago, for one thing: the word "most" already implies there are other good versions of Mark, just that there are a lot more bad ones. But then we get into infinities, wherein placing a number value on something has no true meaning because if the number would be 1, and it's multiplied by infinity, then the number is infinity. We get that, that's great, but the thing about infinity is it's still limited by human perspective.
Angstrom Levy has the power to access infinite dimensions, but he is one man. Even acknowledging the existence of other versions of him with the same power - which are proven to exist by the show itself, when an alternate set of Guardians knows to save our Mark from being stranded on a desert world - those Angstroms never met each other. It took more than 20 years for the Guardians to find the dimension this Mark was lost in, when it was presumably their main focus. Infinity stretches pretty damn far, too far for us to properly search.
The implication, therefore, is that Angstrom's "most other universes" is simply not mentioning a "that I'VE experienced" qualifier, because Angstrom expects that the Maulers are smart enough to get it and besides, it's not the main priority in that scene. If we always wrote every detail into our scenes to prove to the audience that we understood concepts most of *them* don't even get, we would never get to the plot and most people would turn the show off.
I think the trope of AUV outside cartoons can really just go both way.
Best example is Star Trek's Mirror universe.
in TOS it was a good one time trope.
in DS9 it felt a bit overused but it showed how different universes could be.
in VOY it wasn't even truly used in "living witness" but it allowed a kind of outside comparison inside the show.
in ENT it was almost an arc in of itself, and a good thing they did was to make it completely detached from the characters of the prime universe (outside USS Defiant)
in DIS it, well it was something ig, overused to say the least
in LWD it was made fun off the trope itself, a sort of a meta joke
The Spider that bit Our Miles was intended for the Prowler Miles
Heavenly analysis bro
oh i wish you were around for the season finale of season 2
I’d love to see you do a video about Homelander being actually good. I toyed around with a fun idea of The Seven being an actual team and Vought being more like S.H.I.E.L.D.
There never was an explanation behind the Prowler of Earth 42. A lot of the things you point, are just theories, just like how the theory that he’s a vigilante is a theory. It’s pretty clear they’re not gonna reveal what morality the Prowler is, because it’s left ambiguous. It’s unclear if he’s a bad guy or a good guy from an alternate universe.
Also, you shouldn’t even jump into conclusions that 42 Miles is an AU Villain, because he only showed up at the end of the movie, while leaving us with a cliffhanger ending. It just makes you a hypocrite by calling anyone who makes fan theories about a character none of us knows wrong, when you’re basically doing the exact same thing by stating he’s a villain because of your theory.
We in the business call this a Face/Heel turn.
10:29 - 10:39 that's what I thought too when I saw it for the first time (it's crazy how we have two different minds too different have two different minds too different brains but we had the same thought)
0:47 Generator Rex clip used, like attained. (Even if it was used in the wrong context)
I think that when Aaron died and Jefferson lived, Miles followed Jefferson's morality. When it flipped, it went the other way.
One of my favorite time this happened but wasn’t au was Aqua-lad in young justice
Calling the spider verse and invincible “cartoons” is crazzyy
I don't usually do "for want of a nail" experiments with character morality. Character fatality? Sure. "If X died before Y happened, how would Z have managed to accomplish P?"
Example: In a world where Candi "Ciem" Flippo doesn't survive the Massacre at Colbert, but her daughter Angie survived both that and the King's Daughter's Hospital debacle, Angie winds up through a quirk of fate being adopted by Jissika, resulting in Jissika eventually becoming the mother of four children. In the main timeline, where Angie died at the hospital long before the events in Colbert, and where Candi managed to cheat death, there was no Angie for Jissika to adopt. However, Candi was able to live long enough to have more children.
Thus, in one timeline, Angie becomes the new Ciem, and works with Tabitha Pang to bring down the Chrome Kite. In another, where there is no Angie, Tabitha and her friends eventually get to recruit Candi after busting her out of prison (she was a political prisoner), and then they bring down the Chrome Kite. Dana becomes the new Ciem many many years later, after growing up enough to fulfill the role that would have been Angie's role.
In the timeline where Candi doesn't survive Colbert / Denison, no one saves Donte in time. That world has no Emeraldon. In the timeline where Candi survived, Donte gets rescued when he needs it. He and Candi have children together, and then Frank becomes the new Emeraldon years later.
The only common thing guaranteed in both timelines, is that due to Roger's interference, Danny wound up impregnating both Candi and Jissika right before he died. But in the timeline where Angie lived, Candi moved to Oregon to be with Danny. Jissika kept Patrick a secret, so she wouldn't destroy Danny and Candi's relationship. Therefore, Candi in that timeline never met Donte. After Danny dies, Candi tries to raise the child herself. And everything goes to Hell. In the timeline where Angie died shortly after birth, Candi was denied the justification to reestablish contact with Danny until much later. That delay led to Danny dying sooner, sending Candi into a depression that led to her dating Tyrone (again). But when Tyrone then died, Candi began to wonder if she were cursed. And that led her to Evansville, where she met Donte, and was finally on the correct path that would guarantee that she'd survive Colbert and Denison, marry Donte, and have three children with him.
Any small disruption in the path to her marrying Donte according to canon, sees her dying in Denison.
A lot of the Mark's probably got their powers earlier than him so Omni man got to their heads first
0:42 I think something needs to be clarified. DC invented the alternate Universe evil counter part concept with the Crime Syndicate. Hell they even were the first to create the concept of a comic book multiverse with the flash from two worlds comic. Saying DC loves doing this is like saying Coke loves making soda. DC has every right to milk the concept. It's almost apart of thier comic heritage. That's why Marvel never touches the idea out of respect.
This is all fascinating, but the idea that being the first to write a trope means you have the rights to it is a little much? Marvel has a ton of AU Villains, they don't have a whole universe where all their heroes are villains but they absolutely use the concept, and they're right to. It's a useful trope.
@@UnholyBasil but the concept wasnt a trope when they first originated it. DC made it a trope. And I mean, there's no like anti anvergers universe with an evil version of Iron man or Thor.
When DC writers reinvent the concept, theyre paying homage to their predessors in the comic industry. I wouldnt consider it over using a tired trope.
Anybody know what show that clip was from at 0:47?
@@someannoyingcommentator hell yeah, its justice league the animated series from 2001. Its the show that got me into comics when I was 14. Its one of the best shows ever created and it changed my life. Would highly recommend.
this is a super cool video. love the discussion.
I like relating Marks relationship with Amber as a difference between good/bad. Because Amber as a person, especially in the 1st season, is critical of superheroics. If Amber wasn't around Invincible might have been more willing to ignore morality for a greater good.
I think the idea of other earth miles being good is pretty intresting and not impossible well maybe saying good is a bit much but something like robin hood and it would show miles that no matter if he was bitten or no he still has good side to him
At the “wait that red, no..” from the invincible part was cut off with “At BK! Have it your way!” Just wanna say that
Dr strange 2 is a perfect example of doing this wrong
Imagine if the reason Miles 42 ended up as the prowler was because the main Miles ended up with the spider, clearly we know that within the Spiderman Mythos Miles did end up as Spiderman at some points, and the spider that bit out Miles was a Miles Morales spider, since it has the Venom blast and invisibility ability, a staple of Miles Morales Spiderman, what if Miles 42 was meant to be his Universe's Spiderman and our Miles was supposed to end up as Prowler, and Aaron's death in our Miles' universe was reality trying to correct itself giving Miles a Canon Event, since he is an anomaly and maybe Aaron's death and Peter's death in his universe was never meant to be, but the bite he got is the reason why they died, a correction from the universe itself since there can only be 1 Spiderman in the universe
Some of the videos I reference actually found proof of exactly that. In the montage where Spot's talking about Miles's spider being taken out of its universe, we see said spider climbing onto Miles-42's arm. *He* was the one the spider was meant for, that's been made pretty clear by the writers. Well, as clear as the rest of the hints we've been getting XD
INCLUSION OF BEN 10 ❤❤❤