This guy had some of the best written lines in the series. He sounded like someone who had been in psychiatry for a long time and had a lot of experiece with sociopaths. Because he saw caemella was mixed up in on-going crimes and wanted nothing to do with that, he had no patience for her her crap. But still he ended up being compassionate, giving real advice.
No. You misread the nuance. He is not interrupting her to condemn her. The interruption is because she will not leave Tony. And she knows, and he knows. “The only thing you won’t be able to say is you weren’t told so.” Either make him repent, or accept no money and divorce him, take the kids, or reconcile yourself with your predicament as well as your own nature. And he knows, and she knows, what she will choose.
The psychiatrist was absolutely right. If you desperately need to give something up or get away from something, there's only one way. Drop whatever it is, walk and don't look back. Any compromise or concession, no matter how small, is a decision to keep dancing with the devil.
In his defence he doesn't take money from her so this is not his professional help but a man giving her his opinions. However you raise some good points and saying things like this is completely unhelpful. "Have you ever read Crime and Punishment? Dostoyevksy? [Carmela shakes her head 'no'] It's not an easy read. It's about guilt and redemption. I think your husband ought to turn himself and read this book in his jail cell and meditate on his crimes every day for seven years, so that he might be redeemed."
He isn't a psychiatrist, he's a psychotherapist. Big difference. Peoeple go to the former to get medication for issues to do with mental health. For the most part, people go to the latter to complain and be told everything is someone else's fault. She bolts out of the room as soon as she see she won't be getting this. In truth, if a psychotherapist did this in real life, they'd be out of business overnight, as it is not why people go there. They go there to listen to the therapist blame everyone else for all their problems, totally infantilising them in the process, and generally making them into any even bigger shitbag of a person. The therapist in this scene is the biggest hero in the show, not only because he gives it to her with both barrels (no pun intended), but because he brings in to question the greatest industrial swindle of modern times, namely, psychotherapy.
This part pairs well with Melfi’s decision to leave Tony after she comes to the conclusion/realizes she’s only enabling him and not making him a better person. I think the reason these scenes are written like this is Chase’s complicated feelings towards psychiatrists and therapy.
Yes, Chase has said that while there are sometimes real breakthroughs in therapy it's basically just an endless process that just goes on until one of the two parties decides to quit. The guy might be a jerk but in Chase's mind he's probably doing Carmella a favor by just cutting to the chase rather than trying to milk her for 10 sessions until he gets to the same conclusion.
Carmella doesn’t really care about how Tony makes his money tho. What bothered her the most, or the only thing that bothered her was that he cheats on her.
This psychiatrist is not Carmella’s therapist. He doesn’t accept her money and he isn’t going to meet with her a second time. Because of this, he has to either get straight to the point or ignore her and her suffering. He chose wisely.
Off the top of my head - this guy was the only person who showed Carmela the reality of the situation and who she was as a person, as well as Tony. He was putting his life on the line by being so blunt because Carmela could have gone back to Tony and painted it that dr. Krakower found out who Tony was without her giving him any info. I believe Chase wrote this scene for the sake of the audience as well because there was this hero worship for Tony when in reality Chase has made it clear Tony Soprano was a scumbag. Just as Krakower stated, "Most likely the least of his misdeeds," regarding tony being unfaithful to Carmela, so should we consider Krakower's bluntness being the thing we least worry about in this scene.
Interesting take. I've seen this scene many times and usually most of the comments praise the psychiatrist for his honesty and directness, but I think you make a great point from a therapy point of view on why he did kinda suck.
They went to great pains in making sure the Doc looked old and on his way out - I always took it that the show was trying to display the Doc was attempting to do one last good deed after years and years of prescribed handwringing with his hundreds of patients. I'm probably wrong though...
I suppose that’s why you’re not a psychiatrist. Carmella was never serious about leaving Tony, she loved the life he provided too much, and she was just looking for someone to support her decision (like the priest did later)
She can and will leave Tony, but not before making sure she can reap as many benefits from him. However, that ain't gonna happen because that would mean the gloves are off which cause Tony to hit back harder and chances are all those money will be taken by the fed when Tony was arrested. Emphasized on 'when'. Carmella knew that, but you're right that she wanted to have her plan validated so she wouldn't feel like a gold digger. Then again, Carmella refusal to divorce after her bullshit and excuses were brutally dissected in front of her could mean that Carmella never had it in her to willingly leave Tony and his money.
I think just as others have said, this is not a good take on this scene. It is also generational issue. He is clearly portrait as the old school kind of psychologist and anyone who has ever come across some older doctors or psychologists knows these these kind of guys. They are up front and blunt und do not sugarcoat things while your take would be the more modern kind of approach of being empathic, trying to cater to all the needs of the client. And anyone who knows a little bit about about psychotherapy knows that people who go there want anything but to change. They might want to feel better or something similar but they dont want to take the actions it takes to do so. So him, being blunt and telling her the truth, is just a necessary step. He is presenting her with the steps of what is morally right and one needs to bear in mind how psychopathic, sociopathic and dysfunctional the crime scene is. She is not just a poor helpless woman who couldnt take care of herself. She is in her own right completely beyond any moral values, selfish to the bone and a kind of sociopath. It is just that you become so familiar to a character like this, thinking she is normal, by the series showing these family scenes that one starts to forget the depth of fraud, violence and murder that is at the heart of it. One could also say that the psychologist in all clarity shows the viewer how horrible she actually is, how brutal the mafia is and of course we as viewers are a little strange and deranged to enjoy all this stuff but I guess I just really like watching brutal violence.
I'm sad that you've made several of the good videos private, especially your content on masculinity, which I found really valuable. Would you consider at least making those two videos unlisted so they can still be accessed through the playlist?
Why does Melfi quit Tony? Because she comes to see she’s more of an enabler than a therapist. This guy is older and wiser. He realizes from the start that Carmela really needs to be committed to change-or he will be just another enabler. Confrontation has its place in therapy. It’s not all Rogerian.
Melfi was definitely doing more harm than good, but I do think there's a middle ground. People seem to think I have a problem with him telling her off, I don't, that's fine. My problem is that there was no consideration for her overall situation. She stands to lose everything when she leaves Tony, and if she tries to take the kids with her she'll have to rip Meadow out of college and raise AJ on her own, all while trying to find some financial foothold - all of which would be going through her mind during this session, and he offers her nothing to make it feel achievable.
@@Rutgo I think Carmela was hoping to find her own Melfi-a therapist who might help her turn her intellectual and moral turpitude into an emotional wound which needs treatment rather than prosecution. While I agree Melfi ultimately didn’t help Tony, I don’t agree she did more harm than good. If there’s one thing you can say about “The Sopranos,” there is not epiphany, no change-not after his mother and uncle try to kill him, not after his near death experience, not after Gloria’s suicide or Adriana’s murder, not after AJ’s collapse, not after the show-down with New York. The needle always swings back to true north for Tony and for Carmela. I think the old psychiatrist simply knows the score.
The shrink was dead on target. Carmela was a loathsome weakling. For all of her whining and self-pity she reveled in the lifestyle of a mob wife. Sure, Carmela wasn't enthused about the baggage that came along with the arrangement (e.g. Tony's chronic dalliances with any woman who popped up), but she liked the big house and the big money. Of all the characters on "The Sopranos," I found her among the most despicable.
While Carmella ain't no saint, not even close. I always find it pretty telling when people say that she's the most hateable or despicable character in the series. When there's like dozens upon dozens of characters that have done more to be more loathsome. Makes me wonder if that hate isn't rooted somewhere else.
@@WisteriaNerium Not rooted anywhere else. Carmela is despicable because she incessantly equivocates and tries to rationalize (at least to herself) her enabling of Tony. Tony Soprano is Tony Soprano - an unrepentant gangster who cares little for anybody or anything other than himself. Yes, there's self-pity at play with him as well (his constant whining about his mother who admittedly elevates "toxicity" to another level entirely), but bottom line he's a known quantity and involvement with him or any of his criminal endeavors means setting morality aside. There's no sugar coating who or what he is (nor does he make excuses). Carmela, conversely, constantly dreams up any number of excuses rather than simply admitting who and what she is. That level of abject weakness is what I find most despicable about her character (and Edie Falco did a tremendous job bringing that to life for the series).
You're right and it wasn't just the house and the money. She loved to take advantage of the power. You see it repeatedly in the series through threats (either implicit or implied), asking Tony to lean on a building inspector, still setting him loose on Coco knowing what he would do, etc. She wanted all the benefits of a mob wife with none of the downsides. She was a truly reprehensible character.
@@jimbo6413 I think that Carmella was a scummy piece of shit too, I just find it very interesting when people find her to be the most reprehensible character on the Sopranos. She's worse than Ralphie? The guy who beat his pregnant mistress to death? Or the Leotardo Brothers?
@@rockduded8925 Good points, but what makes Camela a more reprehensible character than some of the gangsters (for example, Ralphie or Richie Aprile, both of whom are completely execrable in their own right) is her glaring hypocrisy. She clearly benefits from the lifestyle and is fully cognizant of the reality that her husband is a philandering, murderous thug, yet she consistently rationalizes not only his behavior, but her involvement with him as well. Carmela is great at playing the victim when in reality she's clearly an enabler who could, if she truly desired, leave Tony at any time of her choosing with no ramifications (as much as Carmela, Meadow and AJ may infuriate Tony at times, it is made clear by the writers that he would never harm them or allow them to be harmed). A guy like Ralphie was a known quantity, a psychopathic murderer who made no excuses whatsoever for his behavior - anybody who risked involvement with him (Tracee for example) knew up front exactly what Ralphie was all about. For as detestable as Ralphie, Tony or Richie truly are as characters, there is an underlying honesty with them, an acknowledgment on their part that yeah, they're fundamentally killers not to be trusted. Carmela on the other hand is just as morally vacuous as her husband may be, but she still insists on playing the ingenue when it suits her purposes. That's much the reason why I regard her character on the show to be among the very worst (if not the worst) in terms of lack of basic morals as well as scruples.
I have nothing positive to say about any member of the mental Healthcare community with one exception. She retired way too early to really benefit us, though.
Disagree. Mela was full of shit and he knew it. It didn't matter how hard he made it seem. If she really cared about her children, she'd do whatever it took. Whatever it took. But she didn't care enough.
Nah, since it's just a one off session he decided to just tell her the truth rather that do some hand holding as there's obviously no sort of future relationship here. It's a reasonable choice, as Melfi tells Tony about Gloria, you can't help everyone.
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You could argue this therapist was the only person who told the truth the entire series. Even Melfi was FOS to some degree
Melfie was a thrill seeker who bullshited herself and her own colleagues.
This guy had some of the best written lines in the series. He sounded like someone who had been in psychiatry for a long time and had a lot of experiece with sociopaths. Because he saw caemella was mixed up in on-going crimes and wanted nothing to do with that, he had no patience for her her crap. But still he ended up being compassionate, giving real advice.
My theory about the hero worship is because he was a goddamn hero.
No. You misread the nuance.
He is not interrupting her to condemn her. The interruption is because she will not leave Tony. And she knows, and he knows.
“The only thing you won’t be able to say is you weren’t told so.”
Either make him repent, or accept no money and divorce him, take the kids, or reconcile yourself with your predicament as well as your own nature.
And he knows, and she knows, what she will choose.
The psychiatrist was absolutely right. If you desperately need to give something up or get away from something, there's only one way. Drop whatever it is, walk and don't look back. Any compromise or concession, no matter how small, is a decision to keep dancing with the devil.
In his defence he doesn't take money from her so this is not his professional help but a man giving her his opinions.
However you raise some good points and saying things like this is completely unhelpful.
"Have you ever read Crime and Punishment? Dostoyevksy? [Carmela shakes her head 'no'] It's not an easy read. It's about guilt and redemption. I think your husband ought to turn himself and read this book in his jail cell and meditate on his crimes every day for seven years, so that he might be redeemed."
He isn't a psychiatrist, he's a psychotherapist. Big difference. Peoeple go to the former to get medication for issues to do with mental health. For the most part, people go to the latter to complain and be told everything is someone else's fault. She bolts out of the room as soon as she see she won't be getting this. In truth, if a psychotherapist did this in real life, they'd be out of business overnight, as it is not why people go there. They go there to listen to the therapist blame everyone else for all their problems, totally infantilising them in the process, and generally making them into any even bigger shitbag of a person. The therapist in this scene is the biggest hero in the show, not only because he gives it to her with both barrels (no pun intended), but because he brings in to question the greatest industrial swindle of modern times, namely, psychotherapy.
This part pairs well with Melfi’s decision to leave Tony after she comes to the conclusion/realizes she’s only enabling him and not making him a better person. I think the reason these scenes are written like this is Chase’s complicated feelings towards psychiatrists and therapy.
Yes, Chase has said that while there are sometimes real breakthroughs in therapy it's basically just an endless process that just goes on until one of the two parties decides to quit. The guy might be a jerk but in Chase's mind he's probably doing Carmella a favor by just cutting to the chase rather than trying to milk her for 10 sessions until he gets to the same conclusion.
In the Director's cut the therapist offers to accept Gabagool in lieu of cash.
gabagool isnt kosher hes a jew
Carmella doesn’t really care about how Tony makes his money tho. What bothered her the most, or the only thing that bothered her was that he cheats on her.
This psychiatrist is not Carmella’s therapist. He doesn’t accept her money and he isn’t going to meet with her a second time. Because of this, he has to either get straight to the point or ignore her and her suffering. He chose wisely.
I’ve been a substance abuse counselor for a few years and I wish I could get this guy for some of my past clients.
Off the top of my head - this guy was the only person who showed Carmela the reality of the situation and who she was as a person, as well as Tony. He was putting his life on the line by being so blunt because Carmela could have gone back to Tony and painted it that dr. Krakower found out who Tony was without her giving him any info. I believe Chase wrote this scene for the sake of the audience as well because there was this hero worship for Tony when in reality Chase has made it clear Tony Soprano was a scumbag.
Just as Krakower stated, "Most likely the least of his misdeeds," regarding tony being unfaithful to Carmela, so should we consider Krakower's bluntness being the thing we least worry about in this scene.
Interesting take. I've seen this scene many times and usually most of the comments praise the psychiatrist for his honesty and directness, but I think you make a great point from a therapy point of view on why he did kinda suck.
They went to great pains in making sure the Doc looked old and on his way out - I always took it that the show was trying to display the Doc was attempting to do one last good deed after years and years of prescribed handwringing with his hundreds of patients.
I'm probably wrong though...
I suppose that’s why you’re not a psychiatrist. Carmella was never serious about leaving Tony, she loved the life he provided too much, and she was just looking for someone to support her decision (like the priest did later)
She can and will leave Tony, but not before making sure she can reap as many benefits from him. However, that ain't gonna happen because that would mean the gloves are off which cause Tony to hit back harder and chances are all those money will be taken by the fed when Tony was arrested. Emphasized on 'when'. Carmella knew that, but you're right that she wanted to have her plan validated so she wouldn't feel like a gold digger.
Then again, Carmella refusal to divorce after her bullshit and excuses were brutally dissected in front of her could mean that Carmella never had it in her to willingly leave Tony and his money.
Exactly she would only leave Tony if she got half: past present and future. She stops trying to leave once she realises she's entitled to shit.
I think just as others have said, this is not a good take on this scene. It is also generational issue. He is clearly portrait as the old school kind of psychologist and anyone who has ever come across some older doctors or psychologists knows these these kind of guys. They are up front and blunt und do not sugarcoat things while your take would be the more modern kind of approach of being empathic, trying to cater to all the needs of the client.
And anyone who knows a little bit about about psychotherapy knows that people who go there want anything but to change. They might want to feel better or something similar but they dont want to take the actions it takes to do so. So him, being blunt and telling her the truth, is just a necessary step. He is presenting her with the steps of what is morally right and one needs to bear in mind how psychopathic, sociopathic and dysfunctional the crime scene is.
She is not just a poor helpless woman who couldnt take care of herself. She is in her own right completely beyond any moral values, selfish to the bone and a kind of sociopath. It is just that you become so familiar to a character like this, thinking she is normal, by the series showing these family scenes that one starts to forget the depth of fraud, violence and murder that is at the heart of it.
One could also say that the psychologist in all clarity shows the viewer how horrible she actually is, how brutal the mafia is and of course we as viewers are a little strange and deranged to enjoy all this stuff but I guess I just really like watching brutal violence.
When a therapist doesn't affirm their patient they are a bad therapist?
I'm sad that you've made several of the good videos private, especially your content on masculinity, which I found really valuable. Would you consider at least making those two videos unlisted so they can still be accessed through the playlist?
I'm glad you enjoyed them. I've made them unlisted for now.
am i the asshole for telling an enabler that she should leave her criminal husband?
Satanists be like this.
Why does Melfi quit Tony? Because she comes to see she’s more of an enabler than a therapist. This guy is older and wiser. He realizes from the start that Carmela really needs to be committed to change-or he will be just another enabler. Confrontation has its place in therapy. It’s not all Rogerian.
Melfi was definitely doing more harm than good, but I do think there's a middle ground. People seem to think I have a problem with him telling her off, I don't, that's fine. My problem is that there was no consideration for her overall situation. She stands to lose everything when she leaves Tony, and if she tries to take the kids with her she'll have to rip Meadow out of college and raise AJ on her own, all while trying to find some financial foothold - all of which would be going through her mind during this session, and he offers her nothing to make it feel achievable.
@@Rutgo I think Carmela was hoping to find her own Melfi-a therapist who might help her turn her intellectual and moral turpitude into an emotional wound which needs treatment rather than prosecution. While I agree Melfi ultimately didn’t help Tony, I don’t agree she did more harm than good. If there’s one thing you can say about “The Sopranos,” there is not epiphany, no change-not after his mother and uncle try to kill him, not after his near death experience, not after Gloria’s suicide or Adriana’s murder, not after AJ’s collapse, not after the show-down with New York. The needle always swings back to true north for Tony and for Carmela. I think the old psychiatrist simply knows the score.
The shrink was dead on target. Carmela was a loathsome weakling. For all of her whining and self-pity she reveled in the lifestyle of a mob wife. Sure, Carmela wasn't enthused about the baggage that came along with the arrangement (e.g. Tony's chronic dalliances with any woman who popped up), but she liked the big house and the big money. Of all the characters on "The Sopranos," I found her among the most despicable.
While Carmella ain't no saint, not even close. I always find it pretty telling when people say that she's the most hateable or despicable character in the series. When there's like dozens upon dozens of characters that have done more to be more loathsome. Makes me wonder if that hate isn't rooted somewhere else.
@@WisteriaNerium Not rooted anywhere else. Carmela is despicable because she incessantly equivocates and tries to rationalize (at least to herself) her enabling of Tony. Tony Soprano is Tony Soprano - an unrepentant gangster who cares little for anybody or anything other than himself. Yes, there's self-pity at play with him as well (his constant whining about his mother who admittedly elevates "toxicity" to another level entirely), but bottom line he's a known quantity and involvement with him or any of his criminal endeavors means setting morality aside. There's no sugar coating who or what he is (nor does he make excuses). Carmela, conversely, constantly dreams up any number of excuses rather than simply admitting who and what she is. That level of abject weakness is what I find most despicable about her character (and Edie Falco did a tremendous job bringing that to life for the series).
You're right and it wasn't just the house and the money. She loved to take advantage of the power. You see it repeatedly in the series through threats (either implicit or implied), asking Tony to lean on a building inspector, still setting him loose on Coco knowing what he would do, etc. She wanted all the benefits of a mob wife with none of the downsides. She was a truly reprehensible character.
@@jimbo6413 I think that Carmella was a scummy piece of shit too, I just find it very interesting when people find her to be the most reprehensible character on the Sopranos. She's worse than Ralphie? The guy who beat his pregnant mistress to death? Or the Leotardo Brothers?
@@rockduded8925 Good points, but what makes Camela a more reprehensible character than some of the gangsters (for example, Ralphie or Richie Aprile, both of whom are completely execrable in their own right) is her glaring hypocrisy. She clearly benefits from the lifestyle and is fully cognizant of the reality that her husband is a philandering, murderous thug, yet she consistently rationalizes not only his behavior, but her involvement with him as well. Carmela is great at playing the victim when in reality she's clearly an enabler who could, if she truly desired, leave Tony at any time of her choosing with no ramifications (as much as Carmela, Meadow and AJ may infuriate Tony at times, it is made clear by the writers that he would never harm them or allow them to be harmed). A guy like Ralphie was a known quantity, a psychopathic murderer who made no excuses whatsoever for his behavior - anybody who risked involvement with him (Tracee for example) knew up front exactly what Ralphie was all about. For as detestable as Ralphie, Tony or Richie truly are as characters, there is an underlying honesty with them, an acknowledgment on their part that yeah, they're fundamentally killers not to be trusted. Carmela on the other hand is just as morally vacuous as her husband may be, but she still insists on playing the ingenue when it suits her purposes. That's much the reason why I regard her character on the show to be among the very worst (if not the worst) in terms of lack of basic morals as well as scruples.
Another video! Love watching!
I have nothing positive to say about any member of the mental Healthcare community with one exception. She retired way too early to really benefit us, though.
He was harsh
Harshness is what is used to combat delusion and enabling behavior
@@careforjusticealways I would just ignore it and continue my life of living in rich misery.
@@purplerider2362 smart!!
Erhm what the sigma
He was the only honest person in the series and said exactly what was up. No being a "jerk" about it.
This therapist is my hero. Much better therapist than Dr Mefli who just enables Tony too. Somebody finally tells the truth.
Disagree. Mela was full of shit and he knew it. It didn't matter how hard he made it seem. If she really cared about her children, she'd do whatever it took. Whatever it took. But she didn't care enough.
This is an interesting standpoint but I don't see it at all. Still, please make more videos
Nah, since it's just a one off session he decided to just tell her the truth rather that do some hand holding as there's obviously no sort of future relationship here. It's a reasonable choice, as Melfi tells Tony about Gloria, you can't help everyone.
I loved this scene. He's the only one dropping truth bombs on Carmella.
so he's a jerk because he tells her to do the right thing and her big sacrifice is that she might have to wait tables? Booo Fuckin Hooo.
one of the worst takes I've ever heard.
It's a joke of a profession, especially the derivations tracing back to Freud.
Only joke I see is you