It took me 12 hours to formulate this comment without it being an essay, and missed 1st comment.... Items that give both surviveability and damage are both very common and very good for the game. Between Overlords, Sunfire (and the MR one), Hearthsteel, Titanic and Sunderer we have a lot of items that boost damage based on HP. And bruisers/tanks are not the only ones that have items that scale one stat off another. Enchanters have Dawncore, ADCs have Navori (granting CDR based on Attack Speed), Mages have Rabadon's.... If offence + defence items didn't exist, the game would be a lot worse for it. If that were the case, Bruisers wouldn't function as a class. Tanks would need to have More CC. This is because we have only 6 item slots. And the items (all items) are balanced around some items providing both surviveability and damage. If Overlord's didn't have that passive, but instead granted 70 AD, that would be the same as having this passive. It makes no difference if the passive grants the stats or the stats are granted as base stats for the item. In short. I disagree. Having such items is good.
Yes, items that give survivability and damage must exist. The problem is that these items give too much damage. You said that other classes have items that scale one of their stats off another one, but these items are not as good as items of tanks/fighters. Navori scales ADC's haste based on attack speed, but ADC's deal most of the damage with auto attacks and they won't benefit from it as much as tanks/fighters from their items. Rabadon's is a terrible item because all ap damages dealers are forced to build it and it kills build diversity. If items that give damage based on your hp didn't exist League of Legends would be a lot better. Tanks wouldn't deal absurd amount of damage and fighters would have to choose between damage or survivability.
@DoransShield unfortunately, the other option is to have tanks tank more or have more cc, which creates adcarry focused metas where no one does anything for 20 minutes then the more fed adcarry wins.
@@luckasneo2089 my point exactly. Tanks should deal damage, because otherwise they need *more* CC. And bruisers need both damage and defence or they either deal damage and die in one hit or don't die but do nothing, lacking both damage and utility. So items that scale damage based on surviveability are good.
tanks and juggernauts are balanced with current items you say are problematic, if they remove those items that synergize well with them, you have to buff them elsewhere
The Majority of tanks that show problem are tanks that deal magic % health dmg. When these champions are all physical fighters. Champions innately have less magic resist so making tanks deal magic damage means you allow them to deal more damage. Also since they have to deal magic damage they are forced to build ability power meaning their basic attacks become useless thus they have to overcompensate with extremely high magic dmg abilities. Which makes them clunky and feel like assasins that rely on burst. Now imagine most tank champions Dealt physical damage. That means armor is applied to their dmg making it instantly less effective. Now they scale with attack damage items and basic attacks so you nerf the base damage and change the scalings to fit those of attack damage champions. Meaning less burst and more consistent damage which is what a tank should be. For example. Alistar,Blitzcrank,Cho'gath,Dr. Mundo,Malphite,Maokai,Tahm Kench,Warwick,Zac,Rell(she hits you with Iron parts) are mostly if not completely physical fighters. Other than blitzcrank's ult,Cho'gath's W, Mundo's W which are energy or sound attacks all others are purely physical meaning they should deal and scale with physical damage. By doing this you remove the ability power scalings from those abilities and your force them to build attack damage. Thus forcing them to farm,trade and fight in general with their basic attacks allowing you to nerf their burst damage. You can further apply this to other clearly physical abilities on other tanks. Example. Nunu's chomp --> physical damage with AD scaling Nautlius Q and W onhit empowerment --> physical damage and scale with AD. Ornn passive and E --> both are impact --> physical damage that scale with AD. Leona's Q --> Physical that scales with AD Sejuani's E --> scales with AD Thresh Q and E(and the E passive) --> All physical damage that scale with AD. Now for certain champions Like Gragas,Galio,Mordekaiser. It is better to not change how they deal damage since they are mostly mages and secondly tanks. So making them deal physical damage would somewhat change their thematic. Although I do not think it would be that bad.
@@DoransShield you want to remove ad+hp bruiser items, so lets remove all the items that give the squishy damage dealers hp and shields. then it'd be a fair trade. but then again, ap bruisers would suffer so they have to come up with something new for them. i think they should just introduce base AP for all characters so they can seperate ap carry items from ap bruiser items
@@reculi I don't want to remove ad+hp brusier items. I want to remove items that scale your ad based on hp because tanks can buy 2 hp items and one item that gives ad based on hp, then deal more damage than ADC's with 3 damage items. Items that give shields and other type of survivability to squishy damage dealers have long cooldowns and you can play around these cooldowns, while tanks get permanent damage from items that give ad or ap based on hp.
@@DoransShield ok so you want to remove hp scaled damage items. mages got rabadons, adcs got IE. whats bruisers' big damage spike item? The tanks you talk about still need to be in melee range to deal that damage, i dont know why people undervalue range. i also think this is a biased opinion because of certain champs using the item very well (like sion because of his innate inf. hp scaling). if i manage to get on top of a damage dealer as an immobile juggernaut/tank i should be able to deal damage otherwise you'll only see utilty tanks played. also after mid-game this stops working because the adc will have so much dps and a lot more survivability you getting in 3-4 autos and your spell rotation usually wont kill them and you'll get kited to death because a tank in the middle of a team's formations is a big red target. its a lot easier to play the peel the adc meta as opposed to dive the backline because its been the same thing for ages and diving backlines usually require coordination with your other divers/artillery mages which is absent in soloq. so, can we still have some scaling or are we supposed to be just target dummies that run around and dont scale at all?
@reculi Rabadons and I.E. scales damage based on damage, tanks and fighter items scale damage based on hp, it's a key difference. I.E. and Rabadons are terrible items because as a mage or ADC you are forced to build these items in any game, if these items didn't exist and other items just did more damage League of Legends would be much better. As a brusier you have more build diversity and you can adapt your builds more. Range is a joke. Most tanks and fighters have a gap closer, or they take ghost or they have other things in their kit that allow the to catch squishy damage dealers. League of Legends is not played by AI that doesn't make any mistakes that creates opportunites for tanks and fighters to get on top of damage dealers. Yes, if you get on top of damag dealer as an immobile tank or fighter you should be able to deal damage, but tanks and fighters are not immobile. In the perfect League of Legends where tanks and fighters really immobile then it would be okay from them to one-shot a damage dealer, but in reality most of them have a huge gap closer or high move speed. ADC's don't have any survivability. Maybe we are playing different games, but "your spell rotation usually wont kill them", how a spell rotation can't kill the most squishiest champions in the game? Tanks are supposed to be a "big red target" because their purpose is to tank damage. How pressing R on Maplite, Ksante, Ambessa, etc and one shotting the backline requires coordination with other divers/artillery mages? I've never said that tanks and fighters shouldn't have scaling, just their damage shouldn't scale BASED on hp.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember, Shyvana can build tytanic hydra, overlords blood mail and riftmaker
Just use cc on her
1:52 that Zed is as lost as Dora the adverturer
Yep
It took me 12 hours to formulate this comment without it being an essay, and missed 1st comment....
Items that give both surviveability and damage are both very common and very good for the game. Between Overlords, Sunfire (and the MR one), Hearthsteel, Titanic and Sunderer we have a lot of items that boost damage based on HP.
And bruisers/tanks are not the only ones that have items that scale one stat off another. Enchanters have Dawncore, ADCs have Navori (granting CDR based on Attack Speed), Mages have Rabadon's....
If offence + defence items didn't exist, the game would be a lot worse for it. If that were the case, Bruisers wouldn't function as a class. Tanks would need to have More CC. This is because we have only 6 item slots. And the items (all items) are balanced around some items providing both surviveability and damage.
If Overlord's didn't have that passive, but instead granted 70 AD, that would be the same as having this passive. It makes no difference if the passive grants the stats or the stats are granted as base stats for the item.
In short. I disagree. Having such items is good.
Yes, items that give survivability and damage must exist. The problem is that these items give too much damage.
You said that other classes have items that scale one of their stats off another one, but these items are not as good as items of tanks/fighters. Navori scales ADC's haste based on attack speed, but ADC's deal most of the damage with auto attacks and they won't benefit from it as much as tanks/fighters from their items. Rabadon's is a terrible item because all ap damages dealers are forced to build it and it kills build diversity.
If items that give damage based on your hp didn't exist League of Legends would be a lot better. Tanks wouldn't deal absurd amount of damage and fighters would have to choose between damage or survivability.
Adcs litterally work on the basis of one stat scaling with the other. Ad atk speed and crit scale with eachother in amazing ways
@@luckasneo2089 Yes, but it's "damage scales with damage" for tanks/fighters it's "survivability scales with damage"
@DoransShield unfortunately, the other option is to have tanks tank more or have more cc, which creates adcarry focused metas where no one does anything for 20 minutes then the more fed adcarry wins.
@@luckasneo2089 my point exactly. Tanks should deal damage, because otherwise they need *more* CC. And bruisers need both damage and defence or they either deal damage and die in one hit or don't die but do nothing, lacking both damage and utility.
So items that scale damage based on surviveability are good.
Bro forgor briar
Please don't remind me
Have you ever thought about doing a retroactive analysis. I keep thinking if you have any opinion on "mythic items" worth saying.
Yeah, I'll make a video about mythic item.
Using my early fan banefit now:
CAN YOU PLEASE TALK ABOUT APHELIOS ITEMS. LIKE TOP LANE MAYBE. ITS SO HARD
Maybe
nagrasz film o przedmiocie z nazwy kanału
Maybe
ok but why isnt mundo in the champs who can use bloodmail list, it stacks perfectly with his e passive and can easily get him 500+ AD with heartsteel
Overlord's Bloodmail is good on Mundo, but he rarely builds it
tanks and juggernauts are balanced with current items you say are problematic, if they remove those items that synergize well with them, you have to buff them elsewhere
Imo tanks are not balanced, Riot should make tanks deal less damage and be more tanky.
The Majority of tanks that show problem are tanks that deal magic % health dmg. When these champions are all physical fighters.
Champions innately have less magic resist so making tanks deal magic damage means you allow them to deal more damage. Also since they have to deal magic damage they are forced to build ability power meaning their basic attacks become useless thus they have to overcompensate with extremely high magic dmg abilities. Which makes them clunky and feel like assasins that rely on burst.
Now imagine most tank champions Dealt physical damage. That means armor is applied to their dmg making it instantly less effective. Now they scale with attack damage items and basic attacks so you nerf the base damage and change the scalings to fit those of attack damage champions. Meaning less burst and more consistent damage which is what a tank should be.
For example. Alistar,Blitzcrank,Cho'gath,Dr. Mundo,Malphite,Maokai,Tahm Kench,Warwick,Zac,Rell(she hits you with Iron parts) are mostly if not completely physical fighters. Other than blitzcrank's ult,Cho'gath's W, Mundo's W which are energy or sound attacks all others are purely physical meaning they should deal and scale with physical damage.
By doing this you remove the ability power scalings from those abilities and your force them to build attack damage.
Thus forcing them to farm,trade and fight in general with their basic attacks allowing you to nerf their burst damage.
You can further apply this to other clearly physical abilities on other tanks.
Example. Nunu's chomp --> physical damage with AD scaling
Nautlius Q and W onhit empowerment --> physical damage and scale with AD.
Ornn passive and E --> both are impact --> physical damage that scale with AD.
Leona's Q --> Physical that scales with AD
Sejuani's E --> scales with AD
Thresh Q and E(and the E passive) --> All physical damage that scale with AD.
Now for certain champions Like Gragas,Galio,Mordekaiser. It is better to not change how they deal damage since they are mostly mages and secondly tanks. So making them deal physical damage would somewhat change their thematic. Although I do not think it would be that bad.
is pretty good with mundo in late tho
Yes
ok, remove all hp and/or shield mage-adc items and thats a deal
?
@@DoransShield you want to remove ad+hp bruiser items, so lets remove all the items that give the squishy damage dealers hp and shields. then it'd be a fair trade. but then again, ap bruisers would suffer so they have to come up with something new for them. i think they should just introduce base AP for all characters so they can seperate ap carry items from ap bruiser items
@@reculi I don't want to remove ad+hp brusier items. I want to remove items that scale your ad based on hp because tanks can buy 2 hp items and one item that gives ad based on hp, then deal more damage than ADC's with 3 damage items. Items that give shields and other type of survivability to squishy damage dealers have long cooldowns and you can play around these cooldowns, while tanks get permanent damage from items that give ad or ap based on hp.
@@DoransShield ok so you want to remove hp scaled damage items. mages got rabadons, adcs got IE. whats bruisers' big damage spike item? The tanks you talk about still need to be in melee range to deal that damage, i dont know why people undervalue range. i also think this is a biased opinion because of certain champs using the item very well (like sion because of his innate inf. hp scaling). if i manage to get on top of a damage dealer as an immobile juggernaut/tank i should be able to deal damage otherwise you'll only see utilty tanks played. also after mid-game this stops working because the adc will have so much dps and a lot more survivability you getting in 3-4 autos and your spell rotation usually wont kill them and you'll get kited to death because a tank in the middle of a team's formations is a big red target. its a lot easier to play the peel the adc meta as opposed to dive the backline because its been the same thing for ages and diving backlines usually require coordination with your other divers/artillery mages which is absent in soloq. so, can we still have some scaling or are we supposed to be just target dummies that run around and dont scale at all?
@reculi Rabadons and I.E. scales damage based on damage, tanks and fighter items scale damage based on hp, it's a key difference. I.E. and Rabadons are terrible items because as a mage or ADC you are forced to build these items in any game, if these items didn't exist and other items just did more damage League of Legends would be much better. As a brusier you have more build diversity and you can adapt your builds more.
Range is a joke. Most tanks and fighters have a gap closer, or they take ghost or they have other things in their kit that allow the to catch squishy damage dealers. League of Legends is not played by AI that doesn't make any mistakes that creates opportunites for tanks and fighters to get on top of damage dealers.
Yes, if you get on top of damag dealer as an immobile tank or fighter you should be able to deal damage, but tanks and fighters are not immobile. In the perfect League of Legends where tanks and fighters really immobile then it would be okay from them to one-shot a damage dealer, but in reality most of them have a huge gap closer or high move speed.
ADC's don't have any survivability. Maybe we are playing different games, but "your spell rotation usually wont kill them", how a spell rotation can't kill the most squishiest champions in the game? Tanks are supposed to be a "big red target" because their purpose is to tank damage.
How pressing R on Maplite, Ksante, Ambessa, etc and one shotting the backline requires coordination with other divers/artillery mages?
I've never said that tanks and fighters shouldn't have scaling, just their damage shouldn't scale BASED on hp.
Play league with me
No
@DoransShield 😭😭😭
you talk so much and never get to the point
you repeat yourself quite often
Yeah I do repeat myself, but I talk a lot to explain my point and I am not sure when I didn't get to the point.