Ground is paying for its sins because of Earthquake. The perfect move in gen I. 100% acc 100 pwr. Even when I was a child and gen I had no summary on moves we could feel how overpowered EQ was.
It still is an overpowered type to this day. Great Tusk, the Pokémon with the absolute best offensive type combination has completely reshaped competitive singles by its lonesome, by being the most versatile thing alive with both the best offense, physical defense and utility. Iron Treads also follows its legacy on the lower tiers also. Bloodmoon Ursaluna is such a massive wallbreaker that it's basically impossible to stop, etc etc. They always had it good. But Bug types usually and some Psychic types REALLY get the short end of the stick nowadays.
@@thatseconddude-g4t Yeah, it did, no doubt. But it had the cornerstone for 10 months and even when outclassed by Gliscor mostly on the defensive end, Great Tusk still does pretty decent as an offensive lead, like an Assault Vest set or a Bulk Up set. Basically, Gliscor is the team glue built on defensive measures and Great Tusk is the team glue built for offensive measures. Both are different but both are invaluable.
@@emperorcuboneyep, it's crazy. Not even moves like Rock Slide have a 100% accuracy and you can't even buff them in weather conditions like Thunder or Blizzard or Hurricane. It's ridiculous
Honestly it's not 2 types it's 3. Mineral would cover rock, ground and steel Heck game freak already treats steel as upgraded rock. Onix evolves to steel, Syther has a modern steel evolution and an ancient rock one. There are some simple fixes Lopbunny could switch from pure normal to normal ground and get merged with Diggersby I think that would be cool
While they may be lacking in new members most generations, I see Ground as more a quality over quantity type. It's always been one of the better Pokemon types thanks to its strengths and resistances and the sheer power of Earthquake, such that you can be assured that any pokemon with even half decent stats that is Ground type will be at least somewhat usable. And you may claim Bug has gotten strong pokemon, but in pretty much every case they succeed in spite of being Bug type rather than due to being Bug type. The type itself has remained very lacking, with no new mechanics or type-based buffs to it since the second generation, so that it's deficiencies remain about as strong as ever.
I'm not disputing the Bug type matchups are awful, but that hasn't stopped it from being treated well enough, like any standard type with constant new Pokemon, gym leaders and more...
So are we just gonna ignore the fact that some of the greatest pokemon ever made have been ground types? For years, a ground type has been the best or most used mon in competitive. For example, landorus, great tusk, gliscor, garchomp, bloodmoon ursaluna...
Only someone who sees ground as their favorite type would think it was neglected. Bug has always been the worst type, and when they finally introduced a type to counter dragons, it also resists bugs. Ground has some of the most iconic and powerful pokemon of all time. Maybe it hasn't had as many specialists, and maybe it has gotten fewer new Pokemon than some other types in recent generations, but they aren't introducing pathetic ground type pokemon that no one will ever want to use, where we get useless bug types in Every. Single. Game.
Bug/Steel is x4 weak to Fire but the trade off is that you're immune to poison and resist a ton of types. The only types that can damage you normally are Water, Electric, Dark, Ghost, Fighting, Rock, and Flying. The only ones who received this type are Scizor and Forretress in gen 2, and Durant and Genosect in gen 5
@@Kali_Krause and water/ground is only weak to grass. Electric with levitate has no weaknesses. Dark/ghost had no weaknesses until gen 6. We aren't talking type combos. We're talking single types.
You can definitely tell there’s some bias when he all but brushes off High Horsepower and Scorching Sands as nice consolation prizes and completely ignores all the new Pokemon and any story relevance the Ground type got
I'll give you that they keep adding early game Bugs, which brings down their totals, but I think you're living in the past on your ideas for both of these types; when you think of those iconic Ground types, how many Generations ago are they? 4 or even 7? And sure Spidops sucks, but they also gave us two GREAT regional Bugs in a row with Vikavolt and Orbeetle that you could easily carry to the end of the game! I know I did... My point is, from the early days Bug has vastly improved, but Ground has slipped quite a bit.
Ground is slightly neglected in the sense of new pokémon, but to say it’s treated worse than Bug and Poison is crazy. It’s consistently been a top 4 competitive type for generations, it’s matchups are so good. Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorus, Gliscor, Ursaluna, Great Tusk… I agree it could use some more moves, but Earthquake is so good that any new move they make will either be worse than Earthquake or straight OP. Ya can’t tell me Bug or Poison is doing better than that.
I don't know how many times I can say it, but competitive isn't 100% of Pokemon; there are actual games with stories that people like to play through, and if Ground keeps getting left out of them how long can the type run on fumes from Landorus or Garchomp being dominant when they're from way back on the DS!? We've had nothing better since then...?
@@emperorcubone I’m not claiming competitive is 100% of pokémon. Your claim is that Ground is treated the worst. It’s not, it’s an extremely powerful type. It has that over Poison and Bug, both of which tend to fail in the story AND competitively. Also, why ignore that the current best pokémon are Ursaluna and Great Tusk? I didn’t just cite Garchomp and Landorus, it’s dishonest to say that it’s been ignored “since the DSi”
@@Tyruntgames Many of the strongest pokémon in the games are Ground types, the best attack in Pokémon (Earthquake) is a Ground type move, and the mascot of the upcoming Legends ZA is a Ground type. It’s spoiled and is treated significantly better than Poison, Bug, Ice, and even Rock.
@@daneeulj No it is not. It is consistently neglected by gamefreak. Most of the love you mentioned is in competitive,which is not important for casuals(like me) The only type i could see being treated worst is poison. The best we can hope for now is megas that gain the ground type or new zygarde forms in ZA
@@emperorcuboneDidn't it already get that this Gen with amazing Ice types like Baxcalibur, Chien-Pao, Iron Bundle and even Cetitan? All of them are doing more than good in the battling department, fast and strong enough to take anything down before going down themselves. Alongside that, they now have the Snow weather, allowing them to gain defensive advantage like sandstorm does to Rock types. Not to mention what other benefits the old Ice types got like Alolan Ninetales and Weavile for example.
The only problem is that Chien-Pao and Baxcaliber are broken. The rest can't compare to them. Chien-Pao is a better version of Weavile. Baxcaliber being on par with the original form of Kyruem is just weird. The rest are, well...average but Iron Bundle might find some usage
@@Kali_Krause ...Iron Bundle is Ubers for its unbeatable neutral damage potential with the Water and Ice type, especially with Freeze-Dry. Yes, it has to mostly rely on Hydro Pump, which is a gamble to say the least. But when it lands, it deals a lot of damage, and it being extraordinarily fast, it can disrupt other leads just by itself.
Ground is doing just fine. Sure it could use more new pokemon, but I still say Ice, Bug, Rock, and Grass are the worst off. Ice has too many slow pokemon who try to be defensive which isn't great. While Bug has gotten better, certain type pairing are terrible. Rock barely if ever has any 100% accurate moves. While Grass isn't great offensively so it has been relegated to support at best.
Grass is actually doing quite well right now. Rillaboom is an absolute menace with great offensive capabilities, Ogrepon is extremely powerful and uses its Grass stab often to compliment Ivy Cudgel. Yeah we do have a lot of support grass mons but that isn't a bad thing or a knock against the type, grass has some of the most powerful support moves in the game so I think the type is far from neglected.
You're kinda just describing problems inherent to their type matchups, that has nothing to do with how they're "treated." Except the defensive Ice thing, that is a design choice that they could fix, but the rest aren't relevant; the point is that they took the time to make Rock and Ice combined at all, not so much that it sucks...
The funny thing is most of the “meta” Pokemon are the ground types, so giving it less focus makes sense it was literally the hurdle before the final boss in Gen 1.
To me it seems more like pokemon is treating ground as a special and semi-exclusive type. Kinda like how dragon used to be. It's mostly reserved for special pokemon like legendarys and paradox. And not given out much to the common pokemon. To me that seems like good treatment, as it makes it so the ground type as a whole feels very strong. But I can definitely see why it would be discouraging if you just want a bunch of ground types
This is just not true, the ground type isn’t treated like the Dragon type in the early gens. It’s mostly neglected or slapped onto mons as a second though.
I feel like it's a bit if a double standard to compliment ice and dark for having regional variants in aloha, and then use that same point AGAINST ground in the latter generations. Just saying. Why do they get a pass but ground doesn't? Especially when clodsire is one of the best pokemon to be added imo. It's a fan favorite for a lot of both casual and die hard fans of pokemon.
Because they didn't ONLY have those in Alola? Believe me if there were only past Kanto Pokemon as the only Ice or Dark types in Gen 7 I'd complain. Also regional variants WERE still a novelty then and we weren't really sure how to count them.
@@emperorcuboneYour whole point invalidates due to Ting-Lu tho. Crabominable is the only new Ice type in Gen 7, so is Ting-Lu the only new Ground type in Gen 9. Yet you gave Ice a pass, but complained about Ground
@@TunaBear64 Right? and you could only evolve Crabrawler right before the Pokemon League too, so you're going most of the game either without an ice type or with a Regional Variant/Old Pokemon
The question is which one is treated the worst, and it's ground is getting an "only" where ice is getting "only and". Not really contradictory if you're looking for long term patterns.
Really can't bring myself to weep for the Ground type given it's been consistently good for years on years. This gen's OU has been dominated by several powerful ground types. Meanwhile bug in spite of getting more Pokemon has effectively been getting worse past gen 7 at least
Perhaps, but you're talking about the inherent type matchups, which doesn't really have anything to do with good or bad treatment, that's just the way things are. So competitive viability based on type may be nice for some, but if that leads to stagnation how long will the Ground type be able to run on fumes from decades ago? I want them to fix it before then...
@@emperorcubone I don't think itll ever be in a bad spot because Ground is just so inherently good. Seriously even in spite of not getting as much recently over half the type roster would kill to be in Ground's position. Got some of the best Pokemon, two of its moves from the first two gens are so good as to be ubiquitous over twenty years later. Meanwhile electric still doesn't have a good physical STAB that isn't an exclusive, and it took until SV DLC to get a rock type physical STAB that doesn't have shaky accuracy. And that's not even getting in to how good the ground types of gen 9 have generally been in spite of them not being as unique
Meme answers to which type has been treated the worst: 1. The ??? type. This type was only used for a single move, Curse, and never belonged to any Pokémon (unless you count Sylveon in promotional material before the Fairy type was announced). The type was removed in Generation V, with Curse reclassified as a Ghost move. 2. Shadow moves. These are only in Pokémon Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness, and while not really a proper type, they are super effective against all Pokémon that aren’t Shadow Pokémon. 3. The Bird type (different to the Flying type). This is only in Generation I, where it is an unused type seen on glitch Pokémon such as MissingNo. What all three of these types have in common is that they all had *extremely* limited distribution and were completely removed from later games.
I feel like Ice should of been the type here instead of ground. It has tons of weaknesses all of which being super common in both the main game and in competitive play as well as only one resistance. They are usually slow and can’t take a hit even with their bulk. Avalugg, Aurorus, Crabominable, Glaceon, Sandslash(A), and so many others just shatter right as they enter the battlefield. Not to mention stealth rocks which they are weak to (meanwhile most ground types can utilize it). But in addition, only in super modern Pokémon games are you able to find ice types at a moderate time of the game, they are usually shafted until the very end or around the middle-end part of a play though and as a result don’t really get that much attention from players. Plus tons of water type Pokémon already have ice coverage leaving most of them without a use in battle. Ground at least is both and incredibly powerful offensive type and also only has 3 weaknesses. Leaving more room for both offensive and defensive play. While ground has not seen a whole lot of spotlight in recent generations because of how well utilized it is used by players. Ice is getting forced into the spotlight because of how BAD the type is itself. And no, a pseudo legendary with the highest attack stat won’t make the type more appealing unlike my boi Garchomp.
The only big problem with Ground types, aside from the fact that it and Rock really step on each other's toes for concepts, is their anime representation. Thanks to the reaction to real world Japanese earthquakes, the anime hasn't allowed them to show attacks that shake or split the ground. As you might expect, this has been a bit of a problem for a type whose identity heavily involves doing just that. That's part of why the Ground-types on the show very rarely get to use Ground moves.
As someone who used to like coming up with Ground type gym leader teams, I had a feeling the answer would be Ground! I seriously couldn't believe how hard it was to make a Ground gym with one Pokemon from each generation in Gen 6 😢
@@emperorcubone Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing Ground has become a sneaker pick for being ignored. Just that Kalos really did have a small dex in general.
That's because Bugs got a couple of OP Mega forms in that gen. Nobody is going to use a regular bug type while you can have a mega scizor or heracross. Even Beedrill became strong
Grass/Fire/Water: starter types for each gen, while I wish there were more fire types these types will never be truly neglected Electric: Being the type of the mascot of the series, this won't be treated poorly either. Electric terrain is a recent-ish boost the electric type appreciates Normal: theres gonna be several new normal types each gen, usually at the start of the game. Also gets a bajillion new moves Fighting: its not gen 1 so I'm happy with that Psychic: ever notice how Psychic is the only type to have a legendary/mythical in each gen? Psychic is still seen by Pokémon as a strong type and will always be treated well Flying: we will always get new birds every gen forever Bug: gen 5 exists, and we've gotten great bugs ever since Poison: An underwhelming type, sure, but being able to fight fairies is a good start Steel: one of the best defensive types in the game Fairy: one of the best offensive types in the game Dragon: We've gotten legendary dragons in every gen since gen 3, also most pseudos are dragons, and they're just generally strong Dark: Almost always used by evil teams, recently got a gym leader Rock: Similar to ground, it hasn't gotten many buffs as of late, but unlike ground it actually gets a decent amount if new mons Ghost: we always get at least one mon per gen that ends up being a fan favourite, usually more, and The Pokémon company know this Ice: Obviously has flaws, but things like aurora veil and snowscape really help Ground: has been carried by earthquake since gen 1 While there are other types that could be treated better... yeah, ground has it rough
I've heard a few competitive players say that a ground type is essential for your team in 2-player mode. By the sounds of it, after the likes of landorus and garchomp showed up, the developers stopped adding a lot to the ground type because there clearly was no room for improvement with the type at that point. Though I would say it'd be nice for a proper bug/ground line to be made (the only ones with that type combination so far are an unevolved form temporarily with the type and one form of a species which can have 2 other type combos). Mono bug players would probably be really glad to have one, seeing as they apparently find volt-switch-spam a nightmare nowadays.
6:05 The clodsire slander is painful 😢. But totally agree. But it's really hard to bring benefits to ground that can't apply to rock. I think afar they can do in lean into the clay and bone aspects of ground to grow the divide
Rock is a weird type... Because in Gen 1 there were NO pure rock type Pokemon, and almost every single Rock type in the game (except the fossil Pokemon) are part ground type. Basically when they first came out, _every_ rock type had double the weaknesses because it shares most of the same weaknesses as ground type. Its still a problem to this day and its really rather baffling.
For the ground type, perharps they should give earthquake the toxic treatment and only give it to ground type pokemon, and ice type moves should be super effective against water type pokemon, not only freeze dry
Ice types already suffer from being a glass cannon. Instead of giving them more things to hit, it's best to give them a resistance or two. Like towards the Water or Ground type for example.
@@GoinGreninja Ice should resist electric, the solid form of water is a poor conductor of electricity it should also resit grass and bug and should be STRONG on water
@@iluvyurbles Grass and especially Bug already have arguably too many types that resist them though. Doing that would hurt Bug and Grass more than it would help Ice, in particular outside of STAB trainers almost never use Bug type attacks.
@@iluvyurbles Water should resist ice for þe same line of reasoning you gave for why ice should resist electric. Water gains and loses heat slower þan þe air. For an example of boþ in practice, compare þe temperatures in mid May and early November for Milwaukee, WI and Grand Haven, MI a day or two apart (Grand Haven's being þe later one).
Ground is a pretty good type. I mean, Golurk is pretty cool. As a ghost monotype trainer I have used Golurk many times. Runerigus is also pretty good and of the same type so it depends on what you are going for.
I still gotta go with bug type. Sure they've gotten some strong pokemon, but they're still mostly seen as weak in comparison to other types. Plus, add to the fact that as far as I can remember, bug still only has one elite four bug specialist.
I live the ground type as well, but I feel like it's also the bulkiest type that has a natural immunity. If you look at the other types that have immunities, (Dark, Fairy, Flying, Ghost, and Normal) we can see that Pokémon of the types are generally frailer and easy to deal with. Ground types tend to be naturally defensive and tanky, which makes it easier to have them be overpowered, and tank hits. Plus they don't want to invalidate the Electric type, so they're making Ground less common overall. I definitely agree that there should be more love to the ground type, but it may just be more difficult to keep it balanced.
@emperorcubone That's fair, but it's only one of two counters to fairy type, so it's still relevant to keeping balance. Any strong Pokémon can have access to Earthquake, or just hit the generally frail Electric types with a strong STAB move for a quick KO. Having a ground type is only really necessary for predicting an electric move for pivoting, especially as there are other good counters for Rock and Poison types. I'm not saying it's fair that the Ground type is being forgotten, but it's not as versatile and useful as it used to be. I do think, however, that the game could change if we had a few strong Ground/Fairy types.
Ground is also my favorite type But even with no new ideas in Paldea I’m glad to have some representation in the form of the Elite four and the Titan 🏜️
A lot of the pokemon games I've played on my walkthroughs when it comes to ground types I often use either Quagsire or Flygon. Sometimes I may use a different ground type Pokemon from time to time to see if it's any good or not. A few that I have used were Garchomp, Claydol, Golem, Mudsdale, and the other (water & ground) types pokemon too.
Technically, you don't even need that, you just need all the stakes. Of course, some of them are in precarious enough positions to be extremely hard to get without many Titan Pokémon beaten, but it can be theoretically done, by the absolute desperate.
@@GoinGreninja True. I am just going by the easiest way to get him. If you have all the movement ability, he is easy to get. So, like you don't even need to complete that one line to get him. I don't get why Cubone here calls him post game. Like you don't even need 1 third of the main story done to get him. And if the argument is "most people get him late in the game or post game" that still wouldn't make him post game.
@@darththeo That is extremely true. One can also get Great Tusk or Iron Treads after beating it too, before postgame, if I remember correctly, around the midpoint of the game. It's not that big a hassle as he's claiming.
Seeing as how a large chunk of the Pokemon player base consists of nostalgic millennials, one could argue that the earth titan being a paradox of a Gen 2 mon IS special treatment moreso than getting an entirely new one.
As an avid Ground type fan in the Pokémon games, I have found that the ground types we have gotten, especially in later gens, were really strong in battle and excellent, design-wise. I just think there's a scarcity in Gen 9 (out of all the games I've played)
Bonemerang should have the ability to hit flying types with 50 percent accuracy on those types alone instead of being useless. Imagine throwing a bunch of bones only to miss half of them because the target is mobile in the air.
While I get the new mons being lacking, the lack of new Ground type attacks likely has to do with how it'll likely be outclassed by Earthquake in 99.999999999999999999999% of situations if it's a physical attack. Special attacking Ground type moves have to deal with Earth Power. So to run up why we don't see many new Ground type attacks, the endgame physical and special attacking Ground type attacks have existed for a VERY long time. So at this point the only real times new Ground type attacks are added are for signature moves and utility as even the mid-game coverage is there mostly.
Dig paying for its sins as it went from 100 base power and on par with Earthquake in gen 1, to an 80 base power ground type move in Generation 2 onward. Ground type got done dirty until gens 3 to 7. But for the worst type, i'm guessing it's a tie between Ice and Bug
I really don't agree with this take. Even if a b+ type remaining b+ in its treatment is good, ans when there is a decent ground type pokemon it does well. Bug mean while has gain a type that resist it with fairy and it is very rare when a bug type is added that it is anything but bottom in the teiring charts. Bug was a D quality type that got better in gen 5 and then got another nerf in gen 6 and has a 3rd of the useful moves/ pokemon ground has. To me quality over quantity and ground always gets quality additions unlike bug, poison, even normal and rock
Is it not unfair to include bundle and thorns for the point about ice and rock getting new mons when you put treads/tusk/toeds as reasons that ground "barely" got any new mons?
I said they did "dabble" in previous ideas, being those Paradox forms you mentioned. But if Ground even got ONE new concept like a Cetitan or a Naclstack it'd be a different conversation.
Ground is my second favorite type. There are so many reasons why I say Gen 4 is the pinnacle of Ground types: an E4 member, a starter, a pseudo-legend and a total of SEVEN fully evolved Pokémon. Don't get why we can't even get a few unique non-legend ground types these days.
Not for nothing I've noticed that ghost types have been doing great for the last couple generations, it started out VERY restricted on number of Pokémon but now they've become almost a staple as a gym leader since gen 7, (Acerola wasn't a gym leader but you get my point) and it makes me so happy because it's my favorite type.
I’d argue grass has it the worst simply because of how it’s mostly redundant. Offensively the only real benefit it has is hitting water because water hits the same types, it’s weak to near half the game and it’s only saving graces are its resistances. When stealth rock hits near all its weaknesses for a quarter of their hp on entry and grass still sucks there’s a problem.
I'm not sure what this video is trying to say. It starts by saying that balance is necessary, then shifts to new ground type pokemon and moves, or lack-thereof. Not to mention that ground is one of the most important competetive types, as since gen 5 (maybe 4) there's always been a centralizing ground type at the top of OU. Not to mention that earthquake is a powerful and consistent move, so there wasn't as much of a demand for new ground moves, and it got earth power in the debut of the physical/special split. There are good points regarding the lack of new ground types in newer generations, but it doesn't fit the thesis based on balance.
"Balance" is more than competitive viability; the balance I was referring to is in how they are treated by the people in charge. The IDEA is to treat all types relatively the same, but that doesn't always happen. Besides, there's a lot of game time to play before you get to learn Earthquake, so some other attacks until then would be appreciated...
The ice type was pretty good in gen 1. Jinx, cloyster, lapras, infinite freeze, and 90% accurate blizzard. It was the only generation they could shine.
@@blakdeth Hail really came into its own with Arctozolt and Arctovish, abs in Arceus the weather itself got buffed. The type got a major buff in Boots and two new legendaries, one of which is god-tier.
Unfortunately, Ground doesn’t have it any better in the anime either. The Kanto era keeps flopping back and forth in Electric attacks working on Pokemon with the type or not and Earthquake is removed from the show entirely. Man, you weren’t kidding when you say that Ground types have it rough.
Ground types were so good in gen 5 that they’re now being neglected for four straight generations. I get that there’s a ton of great existing ground types but they can still add a couple more every so often
Ground started life as one of the stronger types and remains solid. It hasn't needed the help many other types have. The idea was to raise the others up to make things more equal in terms of viability.
Ground… is offensive coverage at this point rather than defensive typing. Ice is very similar to that, but has been that way since Gen 1, so it’s not the same.
@@emperorcubone A fair amount of good competitive Pokémon are part Ground type. Yes, more of them are older ones compared to the newer ones. But the newer ones also do pretty good themselves. No one loses in this instance.
As someone who ALWAYS tries to have a ground type in my team, and also tries to have new pokemons in my team if possible, I can say that team building was pretty hard. In gen 6, I had to wait until I get a Gible to get a ground type that would eventually give me something new with Mega Garchomp. In gen 8, I had to wait until I get Galarian Yamask, and that's a pokemon that can be somewhat hard to raise so I had to work to get my new ground type. I will say however that PLA and gen 9 weren't as much of a problem, because I knew I would use Ursaluna as soon as I saw it, and I made my gen 9 team kind of on the fly, and ended up liking the Clodsire I used so much, that it was a permanent member of my team. As for gen 7, the ground types you can use there are honestly more than enough, even if we could have gotten more. Maybe it's just me being contempt with using Alolan Dugtrio over and over again, but even then the other grounds are good choices for your team too.
Counting forms and variants as their own Pokemon, Ground has 90 Pokemon and seems to be around average with the other types (ignoring water and flying having around 130 each). Though that's a skew from 9 being rock/ground when most of them fit their roles perfectly without it. It makes sense on the Golem line if ground is replaced by electric in it's Alolan forms due to dravite being preferred food of the entire Golem line. The lack of it or a substitute leads to their bodies being more broken up and in the case of Golem a greater need for dexterity.
Fairy is the worst treated type imo. They came out with a bang in gen 6, but since then they've been largely ignored. Look at the moves, for example. There's only one widely available Physical Fairy-Type move even in the current generation, being Play Rough; which isn't even the greatest move. 90 power is great, but 90 acc is kind of ridiculous on it, even with the small chance to drop the target's Atk. There are plenty of moves with similar or higher power that have better added effects, that proc more often in some cases, with 100 acc.
I don't think you could say they were ignored in Gen 7; a Starter with the Fairy type, the clearly favored Mimikyu being Fairy, not to mention ALL the Tapus having Fairy and each of those I listed having their own signature Z-Moves to boot!
@@emperorcubone And yet, there are virtually no Fairy-Type moves to work with. It's great that so many Fairy Pokémon have been added, but with so little variety in the Fairy-Type movepool, they're all kind of... same-y. It's been 3 gens already. Game Freak needs to give them some more moves.
Man straight up forgot the Nidos were a thing in the "History of Ground Types" section. Also, Gen 9 technically is the first mainline game with Headlong Rush, which is basically ground type Close Combat.
Ground is my favorite type too. I literally prioritize adding a ground type to my team above all else. I feel it has become the "support type" anymore, not in the priority for design or interest but only to supplement other types like dragon
Ground still needs a strong special attack and Gamefreak isn’t providing that. Best thing we have is earth power which has 90 base power and accuracy so they should either make it have full accuracy or introduce a new one
My vote would be for ice types being neglected the most for reasons stated by others on here. But low key, I think poison type misses the spotlight a lot too. It’s represented by Koga/ Janine (gen 1 and 2) and Roxie (half of gen 5) and then…? sometimes the villains?
Yes, I completely agree! But, exactly Two of those you listed are from the last decade! Ground is running on past good will, and I don't want it to run out of gas before it's too late...
I would argue ground got a new move in gen 9 in Headlong Rush. Sure, technically it was a gen 8 move as Hisui is technically part of gen 8, but gen 9 is the first time we can use the move in a game with traditional battle mechanics.
@@AdamDawson3 In PLA, yes, but in S/V Hariyama, Great Tusk, and Torterra also get it. Possibly some others as well, those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Dark type came to my mind first since have no gym only a elite 4 till gen8 with the rock singer and in Japan they are called evil type well I guess they do no good battle style. I think I always felt bad for dark types.
“You know how a lot of ghost types are physical attackers?” “You want us to add more physical ghost type attacks?” “What? Of course not. That would make them scarier than they already are. Anyway, so you know how our mascot is an electric type?” “You want us to make more flying types?” “Sure, but also try not to add too many ground types. We can’t have people hurting our precious baby Pikachu, right? We want it to live up to the hype set up by the anime and that won’t happen if there’s too many ground types.”
I would love to see a video on the hypothetical sounds time, how you would set the weaknesses resistances, and who would you give it to in past generations?
I did notice that in gen 9 when I was making a team of Pokémon i had a hard time finding a ground type that was new or one that I had not used before. I did not realize how bad ground has been treated ground has some of my most favorite Pokémon
Ice types got a huge buff in gen 9 with trading the move Hail for the Snow effect in the overworld. While Snow is on the field, Ice types get a 50% boost to their Physical Defense and Blizzard still gets that 100% accuracy boost like with Hail
Good points but I still kind of feel like bug and poison got done dirty. As for bug, for some reason have types that resist it for no reason like fairy and fighting and sorry to ground lovers not being supereffective against ground since bugs dig underground. And for poison, for some reason, is not super effective against flying and water granted it can now hit fairy with super effect of moods but come on imagine if poison can hit flying and water types.
I agree about Levitate. The Flying type was already immune to Ground; we did not need an Ability immune to it. I would not have minded it if it made Ground-type moves do something else, like the new Earth Eater (which only Orthworm has,) but it does not, so it is pointless. (Thus I am also okay with Volt Absorb, Motor Drive, and Lightning Rod since Generation V, even though Ground is also immune to Electric.) Furthermore, most Pokémon with Levitate do not warrant the Ability because they do not, well, levitate (note that Gengar lost it in Generation VII, probably for that reason,) would be better served by something else, or both. Carnivine, for example, would resist Ground without it, and that is not even getting into it becoming redundant on Fan Rotom when Generation V made it Flying. As for Chingling, I am convinced that the thought process behind giving it Levitate was, "Well, Chimecho has Levitate, so give it to Chingling too," then later GAME FREAK realized that it did not levitate, so they thought, "Ah, just make it levitate from here on out" (Chingling does not levitate in any Generation IV games, but it has consistently done so since Generation V.) Has anybody else ever forgotten that Chingling has Levitate and accidentally used a Ground-type move on one? (On the other hand, I never forget that Magnemite's evolution cannot have it, so Ground still does quadruple damage to them, but many fans seem to be afraid to try it because they think that they can. Magnet Rise may be a problem, though.) I was not thinking about how Ground might get too little nowadays. I maintain that Bug is still cheated quite a bit. There was no need to make Fairy resist it, nor was there for Generation VIII to shed Silver Wind, Signal Beam, and Steamroller. You can make up your own mind about whether Grass and Ice deserve better treatment than they get.
Tbf they always bring back old Ground types for the games so new ones won't be needed, while its harder to do that for Ice because its usually super late into the game.
@@emperorcuboneActually, some Ice-type Pokémon have been available earlier. In Generation II and its remakes, Lapras is available in Union Cave on Friday as soon as the player can Surf, which is after the fourth Gym; Vanillite is in the Cold Storage just before the fifth Gym in Black and White; Amaura can be revived from a Sail Fossil before the second Gym in X and Y (and Shellder can be caught on Route 8 in Y and evolved into Cloyster); Delibird appears in Route 3 in Sun and Moon and in Seaward Cave in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon (as does Smoochum in the latter case) before the first trial; and Swinub, Delibird, Snorunt, Snover, and Vanillite are all available before the first Gym in Generation VIII. That is only counting the ones that do not require you to go out of your way to find them that soon. I may have missed some still; I do not play the modern games.
1. Psychic 2. Psychic 3. Psychic Psychic is paying for being OP in Gen 1. It's both defensively and offensively weak, and usually given to mons with low stats. Even the ones with high stats are far worse than they would have been if they were any other type. Fairy also did a number on them by being better at keeping fighting types away. The only good thing about Psychic is their movepool with decent coverage and cool status moves, but more often than not, their stats are distributed like the sweepers they can't be instead of the supporters they should have been (cough *most early gen glass cannons* cough). They should have resisted fairy moves at the very least. Ice got a great glow-up in this gen, so it's now off the hook. There are also quite a few cool and powerful bugs. Bug can enhance some other types like steel (Scizor and even Durant), so it's not all bad as a type. U-Turn is a great competitive move that can't even be blocked like Volt Switch. They even have some presence in doubles thanks to Rage Powder and String Shot. Ground is awesome. People think it's underpowered because it's a glass cannon type given to slow bulky pokemon, but top ground types with decent speed are great. Blocking Volt Switch in competitive is such a boon. It hits a lot super effectively, so you can slap a Choice Scarf on something like Mamoswine and get a fast, strong pokemon. Most of them can also learn Stealth Rocks.
The only buff to psychic lately was the removal of pursuit, and even then it benefits ghost types more, which leads to psychic having another type against it.
U-turn is great, but its being distributed outside the bug type so broadly only hurt actual bug types, as the non-bug types that used it basically did to bug types what smeargle did to darkrai and got them served with a nasty nerf (I've heard fairy's bug resistance was probably added to make them good at countering U-turn spam, the trouble is it also made any bug STAB users useless in the process).
Ground is in a weird spot, cause if you make it too good then you get free over powered stab EQ, Stomping Tant, E-Power that only one type is immune to, and almost all ground types get coverage for that type. Like I would love a Ground/Fairy pokemon but unless it gets Tinkatons stats I do not see a world where that type combo isnt the best pokemon ever.
Not to mention Dig had the same base power as Earthquake in gen 1 for Ground types. I don't understand why Dig was nerfed to 80 base power in Generation 2 onward
I mean, it could just be an early game Pokemon with mediocre stats. I'd love that actually since you can never really find them early, even though it's not like they would be broken against all those birds and bugs...
Ice type is an offensive type. Almost all ice types are designed to be defensive. There are 3 decent offensive Ice types, chien pao, baxcaliber, and weavile. Chien pao is just a better weavile. Ice type is treated the worst.
Feel like Ground only feels as omnipresent as it is because some good mons happen to be ground type and because everyone and their sick grandmother learns Earthquake.
I think ground getting the shaft is a result of ground and rock being 2 different types. Since Gen 1 came out when I was a kid I've always thought that they should just be 1 Earth type and not 2 different types.
Ground is so consistently strong. It seems that every new addition be it moves or pokemon with that type shows just how powerful the type is overall. Neglecting as much as they do is basically the only way to keep it all balanced. And as for the ice type, I believe that it is supposed to be the opposite of the dragon type. From gen 1-5 dragon resisted most types only able to be super effective on itself, ice is super effective against a lot of prominent types and dragon and only resists itself.
You definitely make a good argument. But I think the reason is because GameFreak is worried about Ground Types becoming too OP again. Earthquake is so strong and I don't even know if they can top Gen 5 with Excadrill and Landorous. That said, I'm down for getting new Ground Pokemon. They definitely need to add some more 3 stage evolution Ground Types. I didn't know it had been so long since we got one of those. I guess we don't get many new Ground type moves, because current Ground type moves are already good. As for Ground type specialist? Eh. I dunno. I don't really feel like their being neglected too much, but I see the argument. So yeah. In the end, I think we could use some more completely original 3 stage Ground Pokemon. And maybe some more combinations with the Ground type (I'd like to see another Ground/Flying type). I think we're fine on moves, unless Ground type moves are missing a certain niche that I'm unaware of. I'd just give more Pokemon Scorching Sands or Drill Run.
I think Ground’s biggest weakness is that it’s niche isn’t as obvious. The elements of Earth and Stone had a similar issue in the Bionicle franchise, and ironically, Pokémon has handled the split differently. In Bionicle, Earth came to envelope the physical dirt, and Earth powers typically involved localized earthquakes and moving large amounts of ground. There was also a crystal subtheme, though that came later. Stone, meanwhile, was literal boulders and also came to incorporate sand as well. Pokémon does it a bit differently. Rock is obviously rocks, but we see it also incorporates crystals and fossils. There’s so many types of minerals, crystals, and fossils, that there’s a gold mine of inspiration (pun intended) for designing a Rock type. And then there’s Ground. What even IS ground, identity wise. Some Ground types are just mud related (like Swampert and Clodsire), some are sand related (like Flygon and Krookodile), some are clay related (like Golurk and Runerigus). But then there’s anomalies. Marowak is bone related, but why are bones Ground? Shouldn’t that be Rock because of the connection to fossils? Mudsdale is just a draft horse covered in mud, so why isn’t it Normal or Fighting in a addition to Ground? Is the mud SO integral to its identity that it can’t exist without it? Why are Claydol, Ting-Lu, Golurk, and Runerigus (and Cofagrigus as a side note) Ground anyway? Doesn’t baked and hardened clay have more in common with rocks than sand and mud? Why is Donphan a Ground type when it’s tough hide is literally described a “rock-tough” and Rollout is a Rock move? Is it because Donphan has tusks and bones are Ground for some reason?! But then why is Copperajah mono-Steel? Or how about Gliscor who learns a ton of Bug moves, canonically has Poison barbs, and sneak attacks people which is the definition of the Dark type… why is it Ground type exactly? Because it can sometimes be found in deserts and canonically clings to clifffaces? That’s so dumb that it hurts! Heck, even the Ground experts are weird, with Giovanni having no logic behind being a Ground expert, Clay working mine (which, again clay AND mining should be Rock, no?), Bertha is just a Grandma with a sweater and scarf (so no connection). The ONLY good Ground expert is Hapu. The Ground Legendaries, aside from Ting-Lu, deal with fertility in some way. Groudon, Landorus, and Zygarde all have that “guardian of the natural earth” thing going on, and what is Hapu? She’s a farmer… except all the other farmer experts are grass types, so even she’s a bad example! TL;DR, while I hate to pull the “Pokémon is running out of ideas” card, it’s obvious that this is true for the Ground type. You can only do “animal covered in mud or sand” so many times before it turns stale, and the bone or clay-related Pokémon FEEL more like Rock types. While having the Ground type is good for balance, it’s identity is so muddied (again, pun-intended), that I think Game Freak just doesn’t know what to do with the typing anymore.
I recognize I basically wrote a part 2 script for you, Emperor Cubone, but I hope my lengthy comment shows my passion for how much I agree with you on this issue!
I'd say ice because despite the fact that they were the only the super effective type against Dragon except itself they were so collectively bad that they had to create the fairy type because people kept Stacking dragon types and suffered 0 consequences for it
Ground has definitely been neglected more but the type treatment that actually annoys me the most is rock, every type has one move each for special and physical thats decently strong with 100% accuracy for example surf or the elemental punches, rock hasn't really got that because for physical the closest you have is rock slide with solid power 75 but about 90/95% accuracy meaning it isn't reliable, as for special you have power gem which fills all the criteria i mentioned before but most rock types either can't learn it or have bad special attack
As someone who's favorite type is Rock, I have certain frustrations with the type. The offensive Rock-type moves are pretty bad ranging from having low accuracy to having Ancientpower as the only viable Special Attack for Rock types with higher Special Attack stats. I thought it was great in Legends Arceus that they increased the PP of Ancientpower, but they immediately nerfed it back down to having 5 PP again. On top of that, the devs are very stingy about which Pokemon can learn Power Gem even after it became a TR in SwSh. It was bad enough that they waited a gen later to let Aurorus learn Aurora Veil, it still can't learn Power Gem. In addition, since Game Freak is restricting the dex every game, and a good chunk of the good Rock types are fossil Pokemon, the pool of Rock types to pick from in any given game will be pitiful at best. At least I get to use my Dusk Lycanroc in Violet, so there's that. In conclusion, while there are no new Ground types as of late, at least you have a larger variety of cool Ground types to use in SV.
Ngl when Ground was neglected in Gen 6 I excused it since many types had that one gen where there were barely any new for that type stuff like Fire in Gen 4, Electric in Gen 3 and Fighting in Gen 2. But now theres no excuse considering it went on for 4 gens in a row. Ground absolutely needs more specialists gen 3 could've easily had a ground leader with Claydol, Sandslash, and Flygon to have a desert theme. Ghost and Ice get them all the time despite being less common types I'll excuse water since its most common type.
Ground is paying for its sins because of Earthquake. The perfect move in gen I. 100% acc 100 pwr. Even when I was a child and gen I had no summary on moves we could feel how overpowered EQ was.
It still is an overpowered type to this day. Great Tusk, the Pokémon with the absolute best offensive type combination has completely reshaped competitive singles by its lonesome, by being the most versatile thing alive with both the best offense, physical defense and utility. Iron Treads also follows its legacy on the lower tiers also. Bloodmoon Ursaluna is such a massive wallbreaker that it's basically impossible to stop, etc etc. They always had it good. But Bug types usually and some Psychic types REALLY get the short end of the stick nowadays.
@@GoinGreninjameh
Gliscor kinda replaced it after the dlc dropped
@@thatseconddude-g4t Yeah, it did, no doubt. But it had the cornerstone for 10 months and even when outclassed by Gliscor mostly on the defensive end, Great Tusk still does pretty decent as an offensive lead, like an Assault Vest set or a Bulk Up set. Basically, Gliscor is the team glue built on defensive measures and Great Tusk is the team glue built for offensive measures. Both are different but both are invaluable.
Not to mention it (Alongside Fissure and Magnitude) got banned from showing in the anime, otherwise Ash would have lost his match against Cynthia.
@@karthus006Earthquake, Fissure, and Magnitude were banned from the anime at the time Fukushima had a massive earthquake in 2011
Splitting the earth element into 2 types almost guaranteed from the beginning that one was going to eventually be neglected in favor of the other
Then pick Rock; it sucks! Its move always miss...
@@emperorcuboneyep, it's crazy. Not even moves like Rock Slide have a 100% accuracy and you can't even buff them in weather conditions like Thunder or Blizzard or Hurricane. It's ridiculous
Honestly it's not 2 types it's 3. Mineral would cover rock, ground and steel
Heck game freak already treats steel as upgraded rock. Onix evolves to steel, Syther has a modern steel evolution and an ancient rock one.
There are some simple fixes Lopbunny could switch from pure normal to normal ground and get merged with Diggersby I think that would be cool
Anything ground don't hit. Rock can
This was my thought
They made Garchomp and realized they need to backstep a few gens.
A few I could get, but it's been 5!
@@emperorcubone So true
Then they gave us Landorus, and now Ground is not allowed.
@@emperorcubone5? Unova made Landorus and Excadrill and Krookodile and…. etc.
While they may be lacking in new members most generations, I see Ground as more a quality over quantity type. It's always been one of the better Pokemon types thanks to its strengths and resistances and the sheer power of Earthquake, such that you can be assured that any pokemon with even half decent stats that is Ground type will be at least somewhat usable.
And you may claim Bug has gotten strong pokemon, but in pretty much every case they succeed in spite of being Bug type rather than due to being Bug type. The type itself has remained very lacking, with no new mechanics or type-based buffs to it since the second generation, so that it's deficiencies remain about as strong as ever.
I'm not disputing the Bug type matchups are awful, but that hasn't stopped it from being treated well enough, like any standard type with constant new Pokemon, gym leaders and more...
in fact, Bug has been reduced further in strength by one point, due to Fairy resisting it
So are we just gonna ignore the fact that some of the greatest pokemon ever made have been ground types? For years, a ground type has been the best or most used mon in competitive. For example, landorus, great tusk, gliscor, garchomp, bloodmoon ursaluna...
That’s not what the videos about.
@@roxlife8173 Quality trumps quantity.
What’a the point of the type being good if you only make regional variants/paradoxes,mostly for pokemon that already had ground?
Only someone who sees ground as their favorite type would think it was neglected. Bug has always been the worst type, and when they finally introduced a type to counter dragons, it also resists bugs. Ground has some of the most iconic and powerful pokemon of all time. Maybe it hasn't had as many specialists, and maybe it has gotten fewer new Pokemon than some other types in recent generations, but they aren't introducing pathetic ground type pokemon that no one will ever want to use, where we get useless bug types in Every. Single. Game.
Bug/Steel is x4 weak to Fire but the trade off is that you're immune to poison and resist a ton of types. The only types that can damage you normally are Water, Electric, Dark, Ghost, Fighting, Rock, and Flying. The only ones who received this type are Scizor and Forretress in gen 2, and Durant and Genosect in gen 5
@@Kali_Krause and water/ground is only weak to grass. Electric with levitate has no weaknesses. Dark/ghost had no weaknesses until gen 6. We aren't talking type combos. We're talking single types.
@@Kali_KrauseAlso, you forgot Escavalier.
You can definitely tell there’s some bias when he all but brushes off High Horsepower and Scorching Sands as nice consolation prizes and completely ignores all the new Pokemon and any story relevance the Ground type got
I'll give you that they keep adding early game Bugs, which brings down their totals, but I think you're living in the past on your ideas for both of these types; when you think of those iconic Ground types, how many Generations ago are they? 4 or even 7?
And sure Spidops sucks, but they also gave us two GREAT regional Bugs in a row with Vikavolt and Orbeetle that you could easily carry to the end of the game! I know I did... My point is, from the early days Bug has vastly improved, but Ground has slipped quite a bit.
Ground is slightly neglected in the sense of new pokémon, but to say it’s treated worse than Bug and Poison is crazy. It’s consistently been a top 4 competitive type for generations, it’s matchups are so good. Excadrill, Garchomp, Landorus, Gliscor, Ursaluna, Great Tusk… I agree it could use some more moves, but Earthquake is so good that any new move they make will either be worse than Earthquake or straight OP.
Ya can’t tell me Bug or Poison is doing better than that.
I don't know how many times I can say it, but competitive isn't 100% of Pokemon; there are actual games with stories that people like to play through, and if Ground keeps getting left out of them how long can the type run on fumes from Landorus or Garchomp being dominant when they're from way back on the DS!? We've had nothing better since then...?
@@emperorcubone I’m not claiming competitive is 100% of pokémon. Your claim is that Ground is treated the worst. It’s not, it’s an extremely powerful type. It has that over Poison and Bug, both of which tend to fail in the story AND competitively.
Also, why ignore that the current best pokémon are Ursaluna and Great Tusk? I didn’t just cite Garchomp and Landorus, it’s dishonest to say that it’s been ignored “since the DSi”
@@daneeuljGamefreak neglects ground more. The competitive players are those who respect ground,but they are in the minority compared to casuals
@@Tyruntgames Many of the strongest pokémon in the games are Ground types, the best attack in Pokémon (Earthquake) is a Ground type move, and the mascot of the upcoming Legends ZA is a Ground type. It’s spoiled and is treated significantly better than Poison, Bug, Ice, and even Rock.
@@daneeulj No it is not. It is consistently neglected by gamefreak. Most of the love you mentioned is in competitive,which is not important for casuals(like me)
The only type i could see being treated worst is poison.
The best we can hope for now is megas that gain the ground type or new zygarde forms in ZA
The Ice type needs the same kind of treatment and buffs the Bug type has had since Gen 5
Honestly Bug had a HUGE glowup in the recent Gens, so seeing that for Ice would be great!
@@emperorcubone indeed
@@emperorcuboneDidn't it already get that this Gen with amazing Ice types like Baxcalibur, Chien-Pao, Iron Bundle and even Cetitan? All of them are doing more than good in the battling department, fast and strong enough to take anything down before going down themselves. Alongside that, they now have the Snow weather, allowing them to gain defensive advantage like sandstorm does to Rock types. Not to mention what other benefits the old Ice types got like Alolan Ninetales and Weavile for example.
The only problem is that Chien-Pao and Baxcaliber are broken. The rest can't compare to them. Chien-Pao is a better version of Weavile. Baxcaliber being on par with the original form of Kyruem is just weird. The rest are, well...average but Iron Bundle might find some usage
@@Kali_Krause ...Iron Bundle is Ubers for its unbeatable neutral damage potential with the Water and Ice type, especially with Freeze-Dry. Yes, it has to mostly rely on Hydro Pump, which is a gamble to say the least. But when it lands, it deals a lot of damage, and it being extraordinarily fast, it can disrupt other leads just by itself.
Ground is doing just fine. Sure it could use more new pokemon, but I still say Ice, Bug, Rock, and Grass are the worst off. Ice has too many slow pokemon who try to be defensive which isn't great. While Bug has gotten better, certain type pairing are terrible. Rock barely if ever has any 100% accurate moves. While Grass isn't great offensively so it has been relegated to support at best.
Yeah that's what I was thinking like it just seems kinda silly honestly the whole vid was kinda a stretch
It's nit picking at best. EC's been getting nit picky with his videos lately.@@sparkypikachu7776
Grass is actually doing quite well right now. Rillaboom is an absolute menace with great offensive capabilities, Ogrepon is extremely powerful and uses its Grass stab often to compliment Ivy Cudgel. Yeah we do have a lot of support grass mons but that isn't a bad thing or a knock against the type, grass has some of the most powerful support moves in the game so I think the type is far from neglected.
ok fair, the others though?@@bfeldz1023
You're kinda just describing problems inherent to their type matchups, that has nothing to do with how they're "treated."
Except the defensive Ice thing, that is a design choice that they could fix, but the rest aren't relevant; the point is that they took the time to make Rock and Ice combined at all, not so much that it sucks...
The funny thing is most of the “meta” Pokemon are the ground types, so giving it less focus makes sense it was literally the hurdle before the final boss in Gen 1.
Meta Pokemon?
@@MatthewCampbell765Ursaluna, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Great Tusk. All fantastic Pokémon in the current generation’s pvp
@@Piggly8w8Dondozo, Tatsugiri, kingambit,chi yu,chien pao are all mons that ALONE are used more in vgc than all of the mons you just mentioned.
To me it seems more like pokemon is treating ground as a special and semi-exclusive type. Kinda like how dragon used to be. It's mostly reserved for special pokemon like legendarys and paradox. And not given out much to the common pokemon.
To me that seems like good treatment, as it makes it so the ground type as a whole feels very strong. But I can definitely see why it would be discouraging if you just want a bunch of ground types
This is just not true, the ground type isn’t treated like the Dragon type in the early gens. It’s mostly neglected or slapped onto mons as a second though.
I feel like it's a bit if a double standard to compliment ice and dark for having regional variants in aloha, and then use that same point AGAINST ground in the latter generations. Just saying. Why do they get a pass but ground doesn't? Especially when clodsire is one of the best pokemon to be added imo. It's a fan favorite for a lot of both casual and die hard fans of pokemon.
Because they didn't ONLY have those in Alola? Believe me if there were only past Kanto Pokemon as the only Ice or Dark types in Gen 7 I'd complain. Also regional variants WERE still a novelty then and we weren't really sure how to count them.
@@emperorcuboneYour whole point invalidates due to Ting-Lu tho. Crabominable is the only new Ice type in Gen 7, so is Ting-Lu the only new Ground type in Gen 9.
Yet you gave Ice a pass, but complained about Ground
@@TunaBear64 Right? and you could only evolve Crabrawler right before the Pokemon League too, so you're going most of the game either without an ice type or with a Regional Variant/Old Pokemon
@@durk5331Well okay, to be fair, USUM fixed that issue a bit by having it evolve after Totem Togedemaru
The question is which one is treated the worst, and it's ground is getting an "only" where ice is getting "only and". Not really contradictory if you're looking for long term patterns.
Really can't bring myself to weep for the Ground type given it's been consistently good for years on years. This gen's OU has been dominated by several powerful ground types. Meanwhile bug in spite of getting more Pokemon has effectively been getting worse past gen 7 at least
Perhaps, but you're talking about the inherent type matchups, which doesn't really have anything to do with good or bad treatment, that's just the way things are. So competitive viability based on type may be nice for some, but if that leads to stagnation how long will the Ground type be able to run on fumes from decades ago? I want them to fix it before then...
@@emperorcubone I don't think itll ever be in a bad spot because Ground is just so inherently good. Seriously even in spite of not getting as much recently over half the type roster would kill to be in Ground's position. Got some of the best Pokemon, two of its moves from the first two gens are so good as to be ubiquitous over twenty years later. Meanwhile electric still doesn't have a good physical STAB that isn't an exclusive, and it took until SV DLC to get a rock type physical STAB that doesn't have shaky accuracy. And that's not even getting in to how good the ground types of gen 9 have generally been in spite of them not being as unique
Meme answers to which type has been treated the worst:
1. The ??? type. This type was only used for a single move, Curse, and never belonged to any Pokémon (unless you count Sylveon in promotional material before the Fairy type was announced). The type was removed in Generation V, with Curse reclassified as a Ghost move.
2. Shadow moves. These are only in Pokémon Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness, and while not really a proper type, they are super effective against all Pokémon that aren’t Shadow Pokémon.
3. The Bird type (different to the Flying type). This is only in Generation I, where it is an unused type seen on glitch Pokémon such as MissingNo.
What all three of these types have in common is that they all had *extremely* limited distribution and were completely removed from later games.
Haha, I guess the "???" type IS in the thumbnail, but it's definitely pretty neglected...
I feel like Ice should of been the type here instead of ground. It has tons of weaknesses all of which being super common in both the main game and in competitive play as well as only one resistance. They are usually slow and can’t take a hit even with their bulk. Avalugg, Aurorus, Crabominable, Glaceon, Sandslash(A), and so many others just shatter right as they enter the battlefield. Not to mention stealth rocks which they are weak to (meanwhile most ground types can utilize it). But in addition, only in super modern Pokémon games are you able to find ice types at a moderate time of the game, they are usually shafted until the very end or around the middle-end part of a play though and as a result don’t really get that much attention from players. Plus tons of water type Pokémon already have ice coverage leaving most of them without a use in battle.
Ground at least is both and incredibly powerful offensive type and also only has 3 weaknesses. Leaving more room for both offensive and defensive play. While ground has not seen a whole lot of spotlight in recent generations because of how well utilized it is used by players. Ice is getting forced into the spotlight because of how BAD the type is itself. And no, a pseudo legendary with the highest attack stat won’t make the type more appealing unlike my boi Garchomp.
Dude we know the type chart, what point are you trying to do?
gotta say the last thing i expected to hear when i clicked this video was that the actual best type in the game was ignored
It's good in SPITE of being ignored; imagine how much better it would be if they cared about it since Gen 6!
The only big problem with Ground types, aside from the fact that it and Rock really step on each other's toes for concepts, is their anime representation. Thanks to the reaction to real world Japanese earthquakes, the anime hasn't allowed them to show attacks that shake or split the ground. As you might expect, this has been a bit of a problem for a type whose identity heavily involves doing just that. That's part of why the Ground-types on the show very rarely get to use Ground moves.
As someone who used to like coming up with Ground type gym leader teams, I had a feeling the answer would be Ground! I seriously couldn't believe how hard it was to make a Ground gym with one Pokemon from each generation in Gen 6 😢
I mean Kalos skimped on more than just Ground, for example Bug only introduced the Vivillon line.
That's not great, sure, but still one more than Ground that Gen.
Vivillon is a good Mon in AG(mega rayquaza tier) so it's fine.
Not joking.
@@emperorcubone Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing Ground has become a sneaker pick for being ignored. Just that Kalos really did have a small dex in general.
They really skimmed on the Kalos dex, I think there was only one new Poison line too.
That's because Bugs got a couple of OP Mega forms in that gen. Nobody is going to use a regular bug type while you can have a mega scizor or heracross. Even Beedrill became strong
Poison type is my favorite and I really hate how forgotten it seems to be by both Gamefreak and the fanbase
If Fairy wasn't brought in to give it a buff, Poison probably would be the worst treated type!
Grass/Fire/Water: starter types for each gen, while I wish there were more fire types these types will never be truly neglected
Electric: Being the type of the mascot of the series, this won't be treated poorly either. Electric terrain is a recent-ish boost the electric type appreciates
Normal: theres gonna be several new normal types each gen, usually at the start of the game. Also gets a bajillion new moves
Fighting: its not gen 1 so I'm happy with that
Psychic: ever notice how Psychic is the only type to have a legendary/mythical in each gen? Psychic is still seen by Pokémon as a strong type and will always be treated well
Flying: we will always get new birds every gen forever
Bug: gen 5 exists, and we've gotten great bugs ever since
Poison: An underwhelming type, sure, but being able to fight fairies is a good start
Steel: one of the best defensive types in the game
Fairy: one of the best offensive types in the game
Dragon: We've gotten legendary dragons in every gen since gen 3, also most pseudos are dragons, and they're just generally strong
Dark: Almost always used by evil teams, recently got a gym leader
Rock: Similar to ground, it hasn't gotten many buffs as of late, but unlike ground it actually gets a decent amount if new mons
Ghost: we always get at least one mon per gen that ends up being a fan favourite, usually more, and The Pokémon company know this
Ice: Obviously has flaws, but things like aurora veil and snowscape really help
Ground: has been carried by earthquake since gen 1
While there are other types that could be treated better... yeah, ground has it rough
This is pretty much right...
I've heard a few competitive players say that a ground type is essential for your team in 2-player mode. By the sounds of it, after the likes of landorus and garchomp showed up, the developers stopped adding a lot to the ground type because there clearly was no room for improvement with the type at that point.
Though I would say it'd be nice for a proper bug/ground line to be made (the only ones with that type combination so far are an unevolved form temporarily with the type and one form of a species which can have 2 other type combos). Mono bug players would probably be really glad to have one, seeing as they apparently find volt-switch-spam a nightmare nowadays.
a three stage bug/ground and a three stage ground/psychic.. baltoy and claydol being the only two with that combo to this point is crazy
6:05 The clodsire slander is painful 😢.
But totally agree. But it's really hard to bring benefits to ground that can't apply to rock.
I think afar they can do in lean into the clay and bone aspects of ground to grow the divide
Rock is a weird type... Because in Gen 1 there were NO pure rock type Pokemon, and almost every single Rock type in the game (except the fossil Pokemon) are part ground type. Basically when they first came out, _every_ rock type had double the weaknesses because it shares most of the same weaknesses as ground type. Its still a problem to this day and its really rather baffling.
For the ground type, perharps they should give earthquake the toxic treatment and only give it to ground type pokemon, and ice type moves should be super effective against water type pokemon, not only freeze dry
Ice types already suffer from being a glass cannon. Instead of giving them more things to hit, it's best to give them a resistance or two. Like towards the Water or Ground type for example.
@@GoinGreninja Ice should resist electric, the solid form of water is a poor conductor of electricity
it should also resit grass and bug and should be STRONG on water
@@iluvyurbles Grass and especially Bug already have arguably too many types that resist them though. Doing that would hurt Bug and Grass more than it would help Ice, in particular outside of STAB trainers almost never use Bug type attacks.
@@iluvyurbles Water should resist ice for þe same line of reasoning you gave for why ice should resist electric. Water gains and loses heat slower þan þe air. For an example of boþ in practice, compare þe temperatures in mid May and early November for Milwaukee, WI and Grand Haven, MI a day or two apart (Grand Haven's being þe later one).
You (ground) are sad because you fell, I (ice) am sad because ive never had the chance i deserved.
Ground is a pretty good type. I mean, Golurk is pretty cool. As a ghost monotype trainer I have used Golurk many times. Runerigus is also pretty good and of the same type so it depends on what you are going for.
I still gotta go with bug type. Sure they've gotten some strong pokemon, but they're still mostly seen as weak in comparison to other types. Plus, add to the fact that as far as I can remember, bug still only has one elite four bug specialist.
As someone who hasn't played pokemon since gen 4 this is strange to hear.
Nah dude is talking pretty crazy, Ground type is doing pretty fine, still one of the best types around despite what he says.
I live the ground type as well, but I feel like it's also the bulkiest type that has a natural immunity. If you look at the other types that have immunities, (Dark, Fairy, Flying, Ghost, and Normal) we can see that Pokémon of the types are generally frailer and easy to deal with. Ground types tend to be naturally defensive and tanky, which makes it easier to have them be overpowered, and tank hits. Plus they don't want to invalidate the Electric type, so they're making Ground less common overall. I definitely agree that there should be more love to the ground type, but it may just be more difficult to keep it balanced.
I don't disagree, but come on! Steel is immune to Poison and Way bulkier on the whole...
@emperorcubone That's fair, but it's only one of two counters to fairy type, so it's still relevant to keeping balance. Any strong Pokémon can have access to Earthquake, or just hit the generally frail Electric types with a strong STAB move for a quick KO. Having a ground type is only really necessary for predicting an electric move for pivoting, especially as there are other good counters for Rock and Poison types. I'm not saying it's fair that the Ground type is being forgotten, but it's not as versatile and useful as it used to be. I do think, however, that the game could change if we had a few strong Ground/Fairy types.
Ground is also my favorite type
But even with no new ideas in Paldea I’m glad to have some representation in the form of the Elite four and the Titan 🏜️
A lot of the pokemon games I've played on my walkthroughs when it comes to ground types I often use either Quagsire or Flygon. Sometimes I may use a different ground type Pokemon from time to time to see if it's any good or not. A few that I have used were Garchomp, Claydol, Golem, Mudsdale, and the other (water & ground) types pokemon too.
Ting Lu is not post game. You can get him so long as you defeated all the titans.
Technically, you don't even need that, you just need all the stakes. Of course, some of them are in precarious enough positions to be extremely hard to get without many Titan Pokémon beaten, but it can be theoretically done, by the absolute desperate.
@@GoinGreninja True. I am just going by the easiest way to get him. If you have all the movement ability, he is easy to get. So, like you don't even need to complete that one line to get him. I don't get why Cubone here calls him post game. Like you don't even need 1 third of the main story done to get him. And if the argument is "most people get him late in the game or post game" that still wouldn't make him post game.
@@darththeo That is extremely true. One can also get Great Tusk or Iron Treads after beating it too, before postgame, if I remember correctly, around the midpoint of the game. It's not that big a hassle as he's claiming.
I had my Wo-Chien right before Long Way Home, the rest of the Treasures of Ruin post-game, mainly because I forgot about them
Ice I bet. Bug at least got buffed when going to gen 2.
You'd be surprised...
Ice got buff, just not on the type chart, and boy these buffs are insane.
Not joking, Baxcalibur is a defensive menace BECUASE is an Ice type.
At least Ground was one of the types with Sandstorm immunity at the same time the Levitate Ability (and Abilities in general) was introduced.
Seeing as how a large chunk of the Pokemon player base consists of nostalgic millennials, one could argue that the earth titan being a paradox of a Gen 2 mon IS special treatment moreso than getting an entirely new one.
As an avid Ground type fan in the Pokémon games, I have found that the ground types we have gotten, especially in later gens, were really strong in battle and excellent, design-wise. I just think there's a scarcity in Gen 9 (out of all the games I've played)
Bonemerang should have the ability to hit flying types with 50 percent accuracy on those types alone instead of being useless. Imagine throwing a bunch of bones only to miss half of them because the target is mobile in the air.
Totally agree! It leaves the Ground and flies up in the air, I don't know what more you want...
@@emperorcubone This is one of the reasons I am still subscribed to you. You have responded to my comments more than once I love response to feedback!
While I get the new mons being lacking, the lack of new Ground type attacks likely has to do with how it'll likely be outclassed by Earthquake in 99.999999999999999999999% of situations if it's a physical attack. Special attacking Ground type moves have to deal with Earth Power.
So to run up why we don't see many new Ground type attacks, the endgame physical and special attacking Ground type attacks have existed for a VERY long time. So at this point the only real times new Ground type attacks are added are for signature moves and utility as even the mid-game coverage is there mostly.
Dig paying for its sins as it went from 100 base power and on par with Earthquake in gen 1, to an 80 base power ground type move in Generation 2 onward. Ground type got done dirty until gens 3 to 7. But for the worst type, i'm guessing it's a tie between Ice and Bug
Ice has the glass cannons, and Bug has U-Turn, meanwhile Rock and Psychic are having it really hard now.
The Emperor blesses us with a 10 min rant of "Where my ground homies at?". Valid.
It's a pressing question...
Bro is glazing the ground type like a potter
Gen 8 ryhon is technically a ground type game cuz over half of his team is ground type
I mean, that's not really how that works, otherwise Lance would be a Flying type trainer.
@@emperorcubone but lance is a flying type champ look at his teams over half of the members are flying types
I really don't agree with this take. Even if a b+ type remaining b+ in its treatment is good, ans when there is a decent ground type pokemon it does well. Bug mean while has gain a type that resist it with fairy and it is very rare when a bug type is added that it is anything but bottom in the teiring charts.
Bug was a D quality type that got better in gen 5 and then got another nerf in gen 6 and has a 3rd of the useful moves/ pokemon ground has.
To me quality over quantity and ground always gets quality additions unlike bug, poison, even normal and rock
I don't disagree that Ground started out well, but I just don't want its stagnant grade to slip down to a C or a D because of lack of effort...
Is it not unfair to include bundle and thorns for the point about ice and rock getting new mons when you put treads/tusk/toeds as reasons that ground "barely" got any new mons?
I said they did "dabble" in previous ideas, being those Paradox forms you mentioned. But if Ground even got ONE new concept like a Cetitan or a Naclstack it'd be a different conversation.
He is known for his double standards to hold his rants.
Ground is my second favorite type. There are so many reasons why I say Gen 4 is the pinnacle of Ground types: an E4 member, a starter, a pseudo-legend and a total of SEVEN fully evolved Pokémon. Don't get why we can't even get a few unique non-legend ground types these days.
Not for nothing I've noticed that ghost types have been doing great for the last couple generations, it started out VERY restricted on number of Pokémon but now they've become almost a staple as a gym leader since gen 7, (Acerola wasn't a gym leader but you get my point) and it makes me so happy because it's my favorite type.
Right? Ghost has slowly built into a respectable showing over time, but Ground seemingly peaked a long time ago...
I just want to know why there’s so many physical ghost types that don’t get access to strong physical ghost type moves.
I’d argue grass has it the worst simply because of how it’s mostly redundant. Offensively the only real benefit it has is hitting water because water hits the same types, it’s weak to near half the game and it’s only saving graces are its resistances. When stealth rock hits near all its weaknesses for a quarter of their hp on entry and grass still sucks there’s a problem.
And a lot of Water-types carry an Ice-type move, anyways, which makes using Grass risky.
I'm not sure what this video is trying to say. It starts by saying that balance is necessary, then shifts to new ground type pokemon and moves, or lack-thereof. Not to mention that ground is one of the most important competetive types, as since gen 5 (maybe 4) there's always been a centralizing ground type at the top of OU.
Not to mention that earthquake is a powerful and consistent move, so there wasn't as much of a demand for new ground moves, and it got earth power in the debut of the physical/special split.
There are good points regarding the lack of new ground types in newer generations, but it doesn't fit the thesis based on balance.
"Balance" is more than competitive viability; the balance I was referring to is in how they are treated by the people in charge. The IDEA is to treat all types relatively the same, but that doesn't always happen.
Besides, there's a lot of game time to play before you get to learn Earthquake, so some other attacks until then would be appreciated...
Emperor wants to speak up for his type.
The ice type was pretty good in gen 1. Jinx, cloyster, lapras, infinite freeze, and 90% accurate blizzard. It was the only generation they could shine.
I’d add Gen 8.
@@ningenslayer6306 what did gen 8 do for ice types? Gmax lapras was pretty good, but like, what else?
@@blakdeth Hail really came into its own with Arctozolt and Arctovish, abs in Arceus the weather itself got buffed. The type got a major buff in Boots and two new legendaries, one of which is god-tier.
@@ningenslayer6306 ice rider calyrex? Yeah that was a beast. I dread them putting it in a game with snow.
Unfortunately, Ground doesn’t have it any better in the anime either. The Kanto era keeps flopping back and forth in Electric attacks working on Pokemon with the type or not and Earthquake is removed from the show entirely. Man, you weren’t kidding when you say that Ground types have it rough.
Ground types were so good in gen 5 that they’re now being neglected for four straight generations. I get that there’s a ton of great existing ground types but they can still add a couple more every so often
lol i saw this video come out on my tv at 15 seconds that's crazy
It was meant to be!
Ground started life as one of the stronger types and remains solid. It hasn't needed the help many other types have. The idea was to raise the others up to make things more equal in terms of viability.
Ground… is offensive coverage at this point rather than defensive typing.
Ice is very similar to that, but has been that way since Gen 1, so it’s not the same.
Right? People use Ground attacks, but increasingly Ground TYPES have been falling behind...
@@emperorcubone A fair amount of good competitive Pokémon are part Ground type. Yes, more of them are older ones compared to the newer ones. But the newer ones also do pretty good themselves. No one loses in this instance.
As someone who ALWAYS tries to have a ground type in my team, and also tries to have new pokemons in my team if possible, I can say that team building was pretty hard. In gen 6, I had to wait until I get a Gible to get a ground type that would eventually give me something new with Mega Garchomp. In gen 8, I had to wait until I get Galarian Yamask, and that's a pokemon that can be somewhat hard to raise so I had to work to get my new ground type. I will say however that PLA and gen 9 weren't as much of a problem, because I knew I would use Ursaluna as soon as I saw it, and I made my gen 9 team kind of on the fly, and ended up liking the Clodsire I used so much, that it was a permanent member of my team. As for gen 7, the ground types you can use there are honestly more than enough, even if we could have gotten more. Maybe it's just me being contempt with using Alolan Dugtrio over and over again, but even then the other grounds are good choices for your team too.
Counting forms and variants as their own Pokemon, Ground has 90 Pokemon and seems to be around average with the other types (ignoring water and flying having around 130 each). Though that's a skew from 9 being rock/ground when most of them fit their roles perfectly without it. It makes sense on the Golem line if ground is replaced by electric in it's Alolan forms due to dravite being preferred food of the entire Golem line. The lack of it or a substitute leads to their bodies being more broken up and in the case of Golem a greater need for dexterity.
Fairy is the worst treated type imo. They came out with a bang in gen 6, but since then they've been largely ignored. Look at the moves, for example. There's only one widely available Physical Fairy-Type move even in the current generation, being Play Rough; which isn't even the greatest move. 90 power is great, but 90 acc is kind of ridiculous on it, even with the small chance to drop the target's Atk. There are plenty of moves with similar or higher power that have better added effects, that proc more often in some cases, with 100 acc.
I don't think you could say they were ignored in Gen 7; a Starter with the Fairy type, the clearly favored Mimikyu being Fairy, not to mention ALL the Tapus having Fairy and each of those I listed having their own signature Z-Moves to boot!
@@emperorcubone And yet, there are virtually no Fairy-Type moves to work with. It's great that so many Fairy Pokémon have been added, but with so little variety in the Fairy-Type movepool, they're all kind of... same-y. It's been 3 gens already. Game Freak needs to give them some more moves.
Man straight up forgot the Nidos were a thing in the "History of Ground Types" section.
Also, Gen 9 technically is the first mainline game with Headlong Rush, which is basically ground type Close Combat.
Ground is my favorite type too. I literally prioritize adding a ground type to my team above all else. I feel it has become the "support type" anymore, not in the priority for design or interest but only to supplement other types like dragon
It deserves the spotlight again!!
@4:00 But Why Do You Even Need That When You Have “ EARTHQUAKE “ ??!!! … Like Wtf Is You’re Point . 🧐
Ground still needs a strong special attack and Gamefreak isn’t providing that. Best thing we have is earth power which has 90 base power and accuracy so they should either make it have full accuracy or introduce a new one
My vote would be for ice types being neglected the most for reasons stated by others on here.
But low key, I think poison type misses the spotlight a lot too. It’s represented by Koga/ Janine (gen 1 and 2) and Roxie (half of gen 5) and then…? sometimes the villains?
You just found a way to complain about your favorite type not being given enough for over 10 minutes.
Ground is one of my favourite types . Weird to see its so overlooked even though its strong against 5 types two of those are Electric and Steel
Counterargument:
Golem, nidoking, rhyperior, steelix, seismitoad, glisor, dophan, toedscruel, flygon, gastrodon, claydol and palossand are all extremely awesome
Yes, I completely agree! But, exactly Two of those you listed are from the last decade! Ground is running on past good will, and I don't want it to run out of gas before it's too late...
I would argue ground got a new move in gen 9 in Headlong Rush. Sure, technically it was a gen 8 move as Hisui is technically part of gen 8, but gen 9 is the first time we can use the move in a game with traditional battle mechanics.
I mean, it's not like Legends was THAT different of battle mechanics, like it was a Mystery Dungeon game or something.
Its Ursaluna's signature move
@@AdamDawson3 In PLA, yes, but in S/V Hariyama, Great Tusk, and Torterra also get it. Possibly some others as well, those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Dark type came to my mind first since have no gym only a elite 4 till gen8 with the rock singer and in Japan they are called evil type well I guess they do no good battle style. I think I always felt bad for dark types.
“You know how a lot of ghost types are physical attackers?”
“You want us to add more physical ghost type attacks?”
“What? Of course not. That would make them scarier than they already are. Anyway, so you know how our mascot is an electric type?”
“You want us to make more flying types?”
“Sure, but also try not to add too many ground types. We can’t have people hurting our precious baby Pikachu, right? We want it to live up to the hype set up by the anime and that won’t happen if there’s too many ground types.”
I would love to see a video on the hypothetical sounds time, how you would set the weaknesses resistances, and who would you give it to in past generations?
That would be interesting, I've thought about it a bit but not really fleshed it out with all the matchups, but it's worth a look!
Ground is also my favourite type! In my top 5 all time fav pokemon 3 of them are ground types
4 of my top 10 are also Ground type!
I did notice that in gen 9 when I was making a team of Pokémon i had a hard time finding a ground type that was new or one that I had not used before.
I did not realize how bad ground has been treated ground has some of my most favorite Pokémon
It's still not the worst, but it's been a downward trend, so I don't want it to slip any further...
Ground is one of my favs too. Eq and Earth Power is all we got
This video gives "STAY GROUNDED" a whole new meaning.
i love my ice types i don't know why!! great vid bro!
No I get it, Ice is cool! (No pun intended.) Thanks!
Ice types got a huge buff in gen 9 with trading the move Hail for the Snow effect in the overworld. While Snow is on the field, Ice types get a 50% boost to their Physical Defense and Blizzard still gets that 100% accuracy boost like with Hail
Good points but I still kind of feel like bug and poison got done dirty. As for bug, for some reason have types that resist it for no reason like fairy and fighting and sorry to ground lovers not being supereffective against ground since bugs dig underground. And for poison, for some reason, is not super effective against flying and water granted it can now hit fairy with super effect of moods but come on imagine if poison can hit flying and water types.
Sure, but Bug also used to be WEAK to Poison in Gen 1, so it hasn't all been bad for it.
I agree about Levitate. The Flying type was already immune to Ground; we did not need an Ability immune to it. I would not have minded it if it made Ground-type moves do something else, like the new Earth Eater (which only Orthworm has,) but it does not, so it is pointless. (Thus I am also okay with Volt Absorb, Motor Drive, and Lightning Rod since Generation V, even though Ground is also immune to Electric.) Furthermore, most Pokémon with Levitate do not warrant the Ability because they do not, well, levitate (note that Gengar lost it in Generation VII, probably for that reason,) would be better served by something else, or both. Carnivine, for example, would resist Ground without it, and that is not even getting into it becoming redundant on Fan Rotom when Generation V made it Flying. As for Chingling, I am convinced that the thought process behind giving it Levitate was, "Well, Chimecho has Levitate, so give it to Chingling too," then later GAME FREAK realized that it did not levitate, so they thought, "Ah, just make it levitate from here on out" (Chingling does not levitate in any Generation IV games, but it has consistently done so since Generation V.) Has anybody else ever forgotten that Chingling has Levitate and accidentally used a Ground-type move on one? (On the other hand, I never forget that Magnemite's evolution cannot have it, so Ground still does quadruple damage to them, but many fans seem to be afraid to try it because they think that they can. Magnet Rise may be a problem, though.)
I was not thinking about how Ground might get too little nowadays. I maintain that Bug is still cheated quite a bit. There was no need to make Fairy resist it, nor was there for Generation VIII to shed Silver Wind, Signal Beam, and Steamroller. You can make up your own mind about whether Grass and Ice deserve better treatment than they get.
2:17 I don't think having a ground specialist would "clash" with team Magma...
Ahem, Wallace and Juan. Team Aqua.
That is an excellent point, and only further proves how mistreated the Ground type is!
Tbf they always bring back old Ground types for the games so new ones won't be needed, while its harder to do that for Ice because its usually super late into the game.
I mean, they could just NOT keep Ice until the end of the game but they never move it up for some reason...
@@emperorcuboneActually, some Ice-type Pokémon have been available earlier. In Generation II and its remakes, Lapras is available in Union Cave on Friday as soon as the player can Surf, which is after the fourth Gym; Vanillite is in the Cold Storage just before the fifth Gym in Black and White; Amaura can be revived from a Sail Fossil before the second Gym in X and Y (and Shellder can be caught on Route 8 in Y and evolved into Cloyster); Delibird appears in Route 3 in Sun and Moon and in Seaward Cave in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon (as does Smoochum in the latter case) before the first trial; and Swinub, Delibird, Snorunt, Snover, and Vanillite are all available before the first Gym in Generation VIII. That is only counting the ones that do not require you to go out of your way to find them that soon. I may have missed some still; I do not play the modern games.
1. Psychic
2. Psychic
3. Psychic
Psychic is paying for being OP in Gen 1. It's both defensively and offensively weak, and usually given to mons with low stats. Even the ones with high stats are far worse than they would have been if they were any other type. Fairy also did a number on them by being better at keeping fighting types away. The only good thing about Psychic is their movepool with decent coverage and cool status moves, but more often than not, their stats are distributed like the sweepers they can't be instead of the supporters they should have been (cough *most early gen glass cannons* cough). They should have resisted fairy moves at the very least.
Ice got a great glow-up in this gen, so it's now off the hook.
There are also quite a few cool and powerful bugs. Bug can enhance some other types like steel (Scizor and even Durant), so it's not all bad as a type. U-Turn is a great competitive move that can't even be blocked like Volt Switch. They even have some presence in doubles thanks to Rage Powder and String Shot.
Ground is awesome. People think it's underpowered because it's a glass cannon type given to slow bulky pokemon, but top ground types with decent speed are great. Blocking Volt Switch in competitive is such a boon. It hits a lot super effectively, so you can slap a Choice Scarf on something like Mamoswine and get a fast, strong pokemon. Most of them can also learn Stealth Rocks.
The only buff to psychic lately was the removal of pursuit, and even then it benefits ghost types more, which leads to psychic having another type against it.
U-turn is great, but its being distributed outside the bug type so broadly only hurt actual bug types, as the non-bug types that used it basically did to bug types what smeargle did to darkrai and got them served with a nasty nerf (I've heard fairy's bug resistance was probably added to make them good at countering U-turn spam, the trouble is it also made any bug STAB users useless in the process).
Speaking of, can we make Celebi a type?
Ground is in a weird spot, cause if you make it too good then you get free over powered stab EQ, Stomping Tant, E-Power that only one type is immune to, and almost all ground types get coverage for that type. Like I would love a Ground/Fairy pokemon but unless it gets Tinkatons stats I do not see a world where that type combo isnt the best pokemon ever.
Not to mention Dig had the same base power as Earthquake in gen 1 for Ground types. I don't understand why Dig was nerfed to 80 base power in Generation 2 onward
I mean, it could just be an early game Pokemon with mediocre stats. I'd love that actually since you can never really find them early, even though it's not like they would be broken against all those birds and bugs...
Ice type is an offensive type. Almost all ice types are designed to be defensive. There are 3 decent offensive Ice types, chien pao, baxcaliber, and weavile. Chien pao is just a better weavile. Ice type is treated the worst.
Feel like Ground only feels as omnipresent as it is because some good mons happen to be ground type and because everyone and their sick grandmother learns Earthquake.
I guess ice, bug, or poison.
Yikes I was wrong. At least by your standards.
But ground is still a powerful type.
Bug, Ice, and poison need a buff
There was also ground and poison in gen 1 with the nidos
I’d love to see a let’s play of Pokémon this gym of mine with emperor cubone as a ground specialist
I think ground getting the shaft is a result of ground and rock being 2 different types. Since Gen 1 came out when I was a kid I've always thought that they should just be 1 Earth type and not 2 different types.
Gen 5 did more for bugs than any other Gen has done for any other type.
You're not wrong! Volcarona, Galvantula, Accelgor, Escavalier, Scolipede, Leavanny...
Ground is so consistently strong. It seems that every new addition be it moves or pokemon with that type shows just how powerful the type is overall. Neglecting as much as they do is basically the only way to keep it all balanced. And as for the ice type, I believe that it is supposed to be the opposite of the dragon type. From gen 1-5 dragon resisted most types only able to be super effective on itself, ice is super effective against a lot of prominent types and dragon and only resists itself.
You definitely make a good argument. But I think the reason is because GameFreak is worried about Ground Types becoming too OP again. Earthquake is so strong and I don't even know if they can top Gen 5 with Excadrill and Landorous.
That said, I'm down for getting new Ground Pokemon. They definitely need to add some more 3 stage evolution Ground Types. I didn't know it had been so long since we got one of those. I guess we don't get many new Ground type moves, because current Ground type moves are already good. As for Ground type specialist? Eh. I dunno. I don't really feel like their being neglected too much, but I see the argument.
So yeah. In the end, I think we could use some more completely original 3 stage Ground Pokemon. And maybe some more combinations with the Ground type (I'd like to see another Ground/Flying type). I think we're fine on moves, unless Ground type moves are missing a certain niche that I'm unaware of. I'd just give more Pokemon Scorching Sands or Drill Run.
Long answer: Ice types due to the low amount of them and an even lower amount of viable ones
Short answer : I C E
I think Ground’s biggest weakness is that it’s niche isn’t as obvious. The elements of Earth and Stone had a similar issue in the Bionicle franchise, and ironically, Pokémon has handled the split differently.
In Bionicle, Earth came to envelope the physical dirt, and Earth powers typically involved localized earthquakes and moving large amounts of ground. There was also a crystal subtheme, though that came later. Stone, meanwhile, was literal boulders and also came to incorporate sand as well.
Pokémon does it a bit differently. Rock is obviously rocks, but we see it also incorporates crystals and fossils. There’s so many types of minerals, crystals, and fossils, that there’s a gold mine of inspiration (pun intended) for designing a Rock type. And then there’s Ground. What even IS ground, identity wise. Some Ground types are just mud related (like Swampert and Clodsire), some are sand related (like Flygon and Krookodile), some are clay related (like Golurk and Runerigus). But then there’s anomalies. Marowak is bone related, but why are bones Ground? Shouldn’t that be Rock because of the connection to fossils? Mudsdale is just a draft horse covered in mud, so why isn’t it Normal or Fighting in a addition to Ground? Is the mud SO integral to its identity that it can’t exist without it? Why are Claydol, Ting-Lu, Golurk, and Runerigus (and Cofagrigus as a side note) Ground anyway? Doesn’t baked and hardened clay have more in common with rocks than sand and mud? Why is Donphan a Ground type when it’s tough hide is literally described a “rock-tough” and Rollout is a Rock move? Is it because Donphan has tusks and bones are Ground for some reason?! But then why is Copperajah mono-Steel? Or how about Gliscor who learns a ton of Bug moves, canonically has Poison barbs, and sneak attacks people which is the definition of the Dark type… why is it Ground type exactly? Because it can sometimes be found in deserts and canonically clings to clifffaces? That’s so dumb that it hurts!
Heck, even the Ground experts are weird, with Giovanni having no logic behind being a Ground expert, Clay working mine (which, again clay AND mining should be Rock, no?), Bertha is just a Grandma with a sweater and scarf (so no connection). The ONLY good Ground expert is Hapu. The Ground Legendaries, aside from Ting-Lu, deal with fertility in some way. Groudon, Landorus, and Zygarde all have that “guardian of the natural earth” thing going on, and what is Hapu? She’s a farmer… except all the other farmer experts are grass types, so even she’s a bad example!
TL;DR, while I hate to pull the “Pokémon is running out of ideas” card, it’s obvious that this is true for the Ground type. You can only do “animal covered in mud or sand” so many times before it turns stale, and the bone or clay-related Pokémon FEEL more like Rock types. While having the Ground type is good for balance, it’s identity is so muddied (again, pun-intended), that I think Game Freak just doesn’t know what to do with the typing anymore.
I recognize I basically wrote a part 2 script for you, Emperor Cubone, but I hope my lengthy comment shows my passion for how much I agree with you on this issue!
I'm glad to see your level of investment! (Also Onua was by far my favorite Toa, so I appreciate the comparison!)
I'd say ice because despite the fact that they were the only the super effective type against Dragon except itself they were so collectively bad that they had to create the fairy type because people kept
Stacking dragon types and suffered 0 consequences for it
ground is my favorite too, also i agree with this video
Ground has definitely been neglected more but the type treatment that actually annoys me the most is rock, every type has one move each for special and physical thats decently strong with 100% accuracy for example surf or the elemental punches, rock hasn't really got that because for physical the closest you have is rock slide with solid power 75 but about 90/95% accuracy meaning it isn't reliable, as for special you have power gem which fills all the criteria i mentioned before but most rock types either can't learn it or have bad special attack
That's why Smack Down is my favorite Rock move; it may be weak but at least it hits...
@@emperorcubone smack downs only 50 power though, great early game bit under powered later on
As someone who's favorite type is Rock, I have certain frustrations with the type. The offensive Rock-type moves are pretty bad ranging from having low accuracy to having Ancientpower as the only viable Special Attack for Rock types with higher Special Attack stats. I thought it was great in Legends Arceus that they increased the PP of Ancientpower, but they immediately nerfed it back down to having 5 PP again. On top of that, the devs are very stingy about which Pokemon can learn Power Gem even after it became a TR in SwSh. It was bad enough that they waited a gen later to let Aurorus learn Aurora Veil, it still can't learn Power Gem. In addition, since Game Freak is restricting the dex every game, and a good chunk of the good Rock types are fossil Pokemon, the pool of Rock types to pick from in any given game will be pitiful at best. At least I get to use my Dusk Lycanroc in Violet, so there's that.
In conclusion, while there are no new Ground types as of late, at least you have a larger variety of cool Ground types to use in SV.
Maybe ground doesn’t need new Pokémon cuz the ground Pokémon we already got are boss. Torterra. Golurk. Excadrill. Krookadile. Mudsdale. Midoking
This feels like ground type propaganda
Ngl when Ground was neglected in Gen 6 I excused it since many types had that one gen where there were barely any new for that type stuff like Fire in Gen 4, Electric in Gen 3 and Fighting in Gen 2. But now theres no excuse considering it went on for 4 gens in a row. Ground absolutely needs more specialists gen 3 could've easily had a ground leader with Claydol, Sandslash, and Flygon to have a desert theme. Ghost and Ice get them all the time despite being less common types I'll excuse water since its most common type.
I think it's just harder to make ground than rock honestly, though Orthworm not being part ground is a huge missed opportunity.
Right? I thought it would be for sure...