Janet Fielding is the actress who plays Tegan and I agree she does a phenomenal job here. 80s Who often delved into the weird and experimental and Kinda is one of the best, those dreamscape sequences are a nightmarish masterclass of Janet Fielding's acting, Peter Grimwade's creative surreal direction and Peter Howell's spooky score. The entire script is riddled with spiritual themes, symbolisms and Buddhist philosophy. Great cliffhangers abound (the box one is surprisingly freaky) and the classic "An apple a day..." line is one of Five's best. Awesome you're enjoying it so far! Appreciated the Seeds Of Doom reference too.
"Kinda" is an absolute classic & very unexpected when first transmitted here in the UK in 1982. Richard Todd (Sanders) was a huge film star in the 1950's/early 60's & it was quite a coup to get him on Who at the time, because he didn't often do television. All the actors are playing to the max here. Great stuff! So glad you enjoyed it & a wonderful reaction, Sesskasays. :D
Because Nyssa was a last minute addition to the TARDIS crew at the end of season 18, season 19 required rewrites to work around her inclusion, particularly in the early stories. This is why she only present in the opening of Part One.
For some season Sarah Sutton was only contracted for 24 of the 26 episodes this season, which is why she gets her brief appearances in episodes 1 and 4 but is completely out of 2 & 3.
I would also guess that with 3 companions as well as the doctor, it's difficult to find something for all of them to do and easier to just sideline one of them. That's why I prefer smaller tardis teams.
@@mikeferguson1249 I suspect it's the other way round. Given how difficult the development of this story had already been, they realised immediately that getting Christopher Bailey to rework it with an extra character was a non-starter, so they opted to just have her in the brief "book-ending" scenes; Thus they knew they only needed to book her for 24 eps. I haven't got any of my reference books handy to check the chain of events though, so I could be wrong.
@@cooluncle4242 I get what you're saying, but there are shows with ensemble casts. It can be done, and it can be done well. Going all the way back to the very first episode of Doctor Who in 1963, the Doctor had three companions (Susan, Barbara, and Ian). Sometimes one of them would get sidelined for a time (including the Doctor himself), but they usually the found a good balance. When Susan left, she was replaced by Vicki. After that, the Doctor mostly had two companions at any given time, although the 2nd Doctor briefly travelled with Ben, Polly, and Jamie; and the 4th Doctor briefly travelled with Romana, K-9, and Adric. The 3rd Doctor had only one primary companion at any given time, but during his exile on earth the show regularly included = the Brigadier, Sergeant Benton, and/or Mike Yates.
This is one of my personal favorite doctor who episodes from all eras. Janet Fielding absolutely kills it. The subtle political subtext is so amazing. The hints of why Hindle is so messed up are great and rather dark. The Kinda themselves are great. The sequences with the Mara in the dreamscape are amazing. The moving snake tattoos such a genius idea. There r some effect failures in the final episodes. But it’s classic who what do u expect? Absolutely love this story! Glad to see u loving it too!
It's a testament to Bailey's writing that with two lines ("I was beaten every day, never did me any harm" and "Mummy, make him go away!") we not only understand the root of Hindles madness and his entire childhood but feel sorry for him. Really heavy stuff for 80s family TV too
Well this is it! The story we’ve been waiting for all of us to see, Kinda. Honestly you’ll be fine don’t worry Jess. As for myself, my experience with Kinda was again this is going back to my wilderness years of Who, that it was one of my earliest episode I borrowed at my library. I really like the story, the setting, the narrative and its monster. (Sorry Jess)
Back in the '90s I was part of a production that made a corporate video for IBM, It was set on a future space station, where the floating ball of a computer was a future AS/400. The actor in it was wearing one of the costumes from Kinda.
The actor who plays Hindle is Simon Rouse who is later best remembered for his role as DCI Jack Meadows from the longest running British police series "The Bill". Also the actor who plays the white vampirey looking dude who talks to Tegan in her dream sequence called Jeff Stewart who is also best known as one of the original cast of "The Bill" the longest serving character PC Reg Hollis.
Hello Sesskasays, it's Kinda of you to react to this one ;). I remember seeing this when I was very young. It's a Kinda strange and creepy Doctor Who story... lol and it definitely scared me quite a bit as a child, but it's one of my favourites of the Peter Davison era. I believe the monster of this is perhaps one of the very few, if not the only, truly iconic Peter Davion-era 5th Doctor monster that's unique to him, one I'd love to see return.
I love it! One of my all time favorite stories ever. The script crackles throughout, from big ideas (the absurdist satirical theater is all over this one - a bit of Jarry, Beckett, and Ionesco can be seen everywhere) to the funny little interactions between characters (The Doc in particular is giving Rosencranz and Guildenstern are Dead). And all the actors just kill it, relishing in a good meaty script and knowing exactly what is asked of them (special shout out to Janet Fielding - she really levels up here, and her MaraTegan is BANANAS TERRIFYING) . Weird, creative, funny, and at times genuinely spooky - if only it didn't have that damn snake! So incredibly glad to see you vibing with this crazypants story, and your enthusiasm mixed with well-founded apprehension makes it all the more deliciouso. Brave heart, Jess, we're gonna get through this! (God I can't wait for next week's thumbnail)
Kinda is one of my favourite episodes of the Fifth Doctor Era. Peter Grimwade was one of the best directors for the series. The Mara is one of the most unsettling villains ever appear in Doctor Who. Genuinely terrifying and surreal.
Love Kinda! I read years ago that the two playing chess in Tegan's dream are representations of Adric and Nyssa. While the other is a distorted version of the Doctor (he sits in a crate that could be the Tardis.) Very trippy.
One of my all time favourite Doctor Who stories, easily in my top ten. The production has its limitations, mainly due to budget, but with this script and these actors it doesn't matter. Simon Rouse as Hindle is one of the all time great Doctor Who villains.
In this story we have the actress Mary Morris who plays the blind woman Panna. She also appears in the seminal TV program The Prisoner where she plays the only official Number#2 by being shown at the title séquence of the show. Other female Number#2's were only reveal at the end of the Prisoner épisodes.
In the Big Finish story The Cradle of the Snake, you see just how powerful the Mara can be when it's at full power, and it's terrifying. It's definitely a villain with a lot of untapped potential!
Yes. Now the fifth Doctor era starts fully. I loved this mind fuck of a story as a teenager and Peter. Also so happy you get it and Tegan. She gets a bad press but a fab real tough cookie of a companion but she was superb and real. Great dynamics. So happy watching you react to these especially, I absolutely adore this era and Doctor. Thank you as always. Xx
@@Georgie_R Yeah, IMHO the issue with Tegan isn't the character herself, or how Janet plays her; It's just the number repetitive argument scenes that were written for her. For a long while the production team didn't let her learn or grow, and right to the end JN-T kept pushing her - and later Mark Strickson - back into the boxes he'd created for their characters.
@@therealpbristow Good point. I think Janet Fielding herself has commented on how limited the companions were during Classic Who, particularly in comparison to how much agency they have in New Who.
For those of us who know you have a fear of snakes, this is the story we were excited for you to watch. :) And I KNEW you'd mention the Seeds of Doom! Remember the plant music? You're right about Tegan's whole section being scary. After Tegan is possessed, I think Janet Fielding does a great job imitating the Mara guy who was tormenting her. I didn't remember much about this story but I'm loving it on a rewatch. The side characters are great.
The story is unusually for Who, based on an established SF tale, a short story) expanded into a novel) by Ursula Le Guin called The Word For World Is Forest
Jonny Lee Miller (who would later be known as Sherlock Holmes from the series "Elemantary" and "Trainspotting") makes his uncredited screen debut as one of the Kinda children.
We are commemorating the d day landings in the UK at the moment, Richard Todd was a great actor but its well documented that he parachuted into France on d day.
He rode a glider into the Pegasus Bridge battle, he even acts the part of his own commanding officer in the best film of the incident: 'The Longest Day'.
@@stevetheduck1425 Actually he wasn't with the Gliders. He was parachuted in with 7th Para Battalion which linked up with the Glider troops and helped defend the bridges, so he was present at the battle and did meet Major Howard
It blew me away when I realised the Mara is played by the same guy who was Reg Hollis in "The Bill" - popular British police TV show, and Reg was the most straight laced and decent of the beat constables.
Love this whole season. The risks taken didn’t always work 100%, but they were so entertaining and after 7 years of Tom, it really felt fresh and new. They also spent some decent time on the relationships of the TARDIS team but not too much. It is still one of my favorites. I was 10-11 when I first saw it so the nostalgia is there in force. 😊
Great cast and a very interesting unusual story. Todd played by Nerys Hughes worked so well with Peter Davison who shines as The Doctor. She had Barbara vibes about her. Two fantastic cliffhangers. It was really annoying to have to wait a week to find out what happened next back in 1982. Such a great season.
There was a fan rumour for ages that this written by Kate Bush under a male pen name! It makes sense in a way, lots of the video effects and weird visual bits could be straight out of some of her early 80s vids, like 'Breathing ' , even some of her themes from that era fit it too (colonial exploitation, power of nature and dreams, sexuality and biblically imagery, end of the world) . Todd is a cool one off companion style character as well, the actress was well known in the UK for a hit female lead sitcom called The Liver Birds , set in Liverpool. I think it's time The Mara came back (apologies for those who are nervous about Snakes 😅)
I have never heard this theory! I love it to death and am now imagining a whole alternate history of Doctor Who scored by Kate and Kate Bush videos on the concepts of time travel.
Me too! There maybe other stands to this idea that I can't remember right now , but if you check out the video for The Dreaming , she wears an outfit a bit like an 80s version of a certain silver Monster, albeit minus the chest and head piece, maybe a borrowed item?! The zoom shot into Tegan's eye is also very like something from her early 80s vids, Doctor Who and certain music acts were exploring what could be done with the new video effect technology at the time, so there is a wonderful similar visual vibe anyway.
I love Kinda, it's totally my kind of bizarre and always gives me nostalgic early 80s pop video vibes in places. Tremendously engaging story with an outstanding guest cast.
It's perhaps worth mentioning that esteemed British film star Richard Todd, aside from receiving acting lessons from Matthew Waterhouse, was also one of the many anxious British soldiers dropped over Normandy during the allied invasion, 80 years ago this week (an event he later helped bring to life on screen). More pertinent to this show, he also appeared in another British war classic 'The Dambusters', alongside Michael Redgrave - the grandfather of Kate Stewart actress Gemma Redgrave.
It's theorised that the people who Tegan saw during her hallucinations were the missing crew members who had something done to them by the Mara that made them that way.
@@someguy3752 I think the novelisation speculates and says that the three crewmen may have ended up in the same situation as Tegan and refused to obey, and were then killed
This story was originally Seska, written as a possible Tom Baker story but it was rewrtitten for Peter Davison and also Richard Todd Sanders was an awesome actor and he lived near me at the time this story was broadcast he lived in Lincolnshire in a town called Market Deeping and I was in a city not far away.
Great story, one of Davison's best. Not to be mean but your reactions to the snake are entertaining and I've been looking forward to this reaction lol, though I hope it doesn't cause you too much distress.
This is my absolute favorite story of classic who. This is one of my favorite Tardis Teams. The Fifth Doctor is my favorite classic Doctor. Tegan is my second favorite classic Who companion.
I have always loved this story!! Talking about the arrogance of colonialism, and the way the 'natives' were treated, has been done before, but this adds a spiritual part. There used to be a lack of appreciation because it's not 'just' scifi, but I'm glad to see that's changed over time. Also, TEGAN!!!!!!
Regeneration can be so funny. The Third and Fourth Doctor have proven themselves to be a pretty decent magician, and here the Fifth Doctor can't wrap his head around a simple coin trick.
I suspect that was more for the benefit of their captor watching them - setting up the game early so that maybe he doesn’t get suspicious later. It didn’t work, but that might’ve been the plan.
Yeah. The Third Doctor was also adept a Venusian Aikido, but previous and subsequent Doctors mostly had no fighting skill (although 4 and 10 could both handle a sword).
The older officer is played by Richard Todd (1919-2009, Ireland-British) He enlisted in the British Army in 1941. He served, and joined the Paratroops. (This is written on June 7th, 2024) Todd and his group were dropped into Normandy, night of June 5-6th to capture a bridge, later named Pegasus, for the Paratroop logo. When the movie, "the Longest Day" that dramatized D-Day, in 1962, Todd was an Actor, and was in the film, fighting again at Pegasus. A Bagpipe musician, was with the troops, when the British forces met at that bridge, victory over the Germans. Richard Todd acted in the film "The Dambusters" (1955) -about another actual WW2 mission, of incredible risk. Todd acted in a number of films and TV. His Military demeanor, in episode 1 of Kinda would be accurate. Tales are told, by the other actors (even on DVD commentary, interviews) that Matthew W' who was Adrian did not know how experienced R.Todd was, and tried to advise him on acting in Doctor Who terms,....not, the best advice, and embarrassing.
Snake story? I'm sure I don't know what you mean. 😇 It had been a last minute decision to make Nyssa an ongoing character after The Keeper of Traken and subsequently she wasn't contracted for every episode of this season, which is why she's asleep in the TARDIS, off screen for episodes two and three of this story. It is a dream sequence when Tegan is taken over by the Mara, the Mara has invaded her dream. The two old people she sees playing chess are distorted dream versions of Adric and Nyssa, who were playing draughts at the beginning of the episode. The weird looking hut near the old couple is a distorted dream version of the TARDIS, the Mara who tries to convince Tegan to let him use her body is a dream version of the Doctor, etc. A lot of the character and place names in the story are taken from Buddhism and the story works in a lot of ways like a Buddhist parable. There are also a lot of sly references to the story of the Garden of Eden: Deva Loka being described as "paradise", apples, serpents, etc. Richard Todd (Saunders) is the first Academy Award nominee to appear in Doctor Who. )He was nominated for the 1949 film The Hasty Heart.) Janet Fielding (Tegan) and Simon Rouse (Hindle) both give outstanding performances in this story.
There's something in this story to watch out for, beyond snakes and symbols. The studio floor appears more and more. The whole story is happening on a white flat plain, even when it's in a jungle.
Was waiting to see your reaction to this, given your fear of snakes 😂 also, so funny eatching Adrian Mills (the savage 'Aris') in this, as he was most famous in the UK for his regular appearance on a magazine program here un the UK called 'That's Life', where he was quite the buffoon.
This is a fabulous story. It works on so many levels. It’s experimental, highly literary, superbly acted by all, with themes of Buddhism, Judaeo-Christian myths, colonialism, mental disintegration. Amazing stuff
Hey Jess, you've landed on my all time favourite - the first one that truly scared me as a kid. I started watching aged 8 with The Leisure Hive and watched every story with wide-eyed amazement, but Kinda was the first one that had me not wanting to go to bed (was some dude going to appear in my dreams and possess me?). I remember something that Hindle says in Part 3/4 really hitting me hard (you'll know when you see it). Isn't it amazing, the way the void is infinite and claustrophobic at the same time? Kinda boasts acting royalty. Nerys Hughes was a star from The Liver Birds and no end of TV drama, Richard Todd (Sanders) was a great British cinema heartthrob in the '40s, Mary Morris (Panna) had a career spanning from the '30s in film and theatre (lots of Shakespeare), Anna Wing (the old lady in the Elizabethan costume) became Lou Beale the touch matriarch in the soap EastEnders, and Hindle went on to be the boss in police drama The Bill. Great script = great cast = great telly! Anyway, come to London and we'll do the Doctor Who walking tour, showing locations used in Classic and nuWho!
Janet Fielding is the name of the actress who plays Tegan she is also a real life australian like her character born in Brisbane, Queensland unfortunately she never made a hit here in Australia.
The Fifth Doctor was the first one I really watched as a kid, because it was shown on weeknights at around teatime, whereas prior to that it was shown early Saturday afternoon when I was either playing out or forced to visit family. But I was also prone to either sinus and/or ear infections at that age, and it was under the feverish influence of one of those that i saw this story. In many ways, being somewhat deliruous adds to the whole experience. Definitely a favourite.
I read that they had planned to get rid of Nyssa but Peter Davidson fought them because he thought her character worked best with his Doctor. They had already written this so they made her sick to explain her absence.
@@stacyp2186 Interesting. A whole paragraph given to it, but with no citation. And in the entry for "Kinda", we have a contradictory paragraph, *also* with no citation. I've done a some quick searching for things like "sarah sutton doctor who contract" etc., and not found anything that clarifies the situation. I think I'll add a "Citation needed" to both entries...
Another wonderful reaction! This is one of my favorite stories. The sequences within Tegan's mind are outstanding, with the couple playing chess mirroring Adric and Nyssa, and the metallic box as the TARDIS. For years, there was an ongoing rumor that singer Kate Bush penned the script under the pseudonym Christopher Bailey!
Classic Doctor Who. With thought provoking, intriguing, and well-played stories, that could also scare the viewers too. Kinda introduced us to a very insidious enemy in the Mara.
Aside from the obvious slip into supernatural territory (which now seems topical again), there's something quite modern about the way Janet Fielding is built up in this serial - if only as a kind of conduit for something. The choices presented by having three companions are limited. In Jodie's era, they tended to handle things more as a group. But this is an opportunity to put the spotlight on an individual - at Sarah Sutton's expense.
Welcome to ‘Deva Loka Ink’. Close to my top Davison story and in my top dozen or so Classic stories. The imagery is still striking, the story gripping and great performances, especially from Janet Fielding and Simon Rouse
This is my favourite 5th doctor story its one of the few where it really has some great dialogue till season 25 and why I like it is nothing like new who in its so open to interpretation with a garden of eden concept and criticism on imperialism.
Obviously we have now established a pattern in Adric's behaviour, which either marks him out as very smart or very stupid! Simon Rouse does a really good job in this story of turning Hindle into someone with whom reason cannot be applied. He's almost like certain past and future world leaders....
The fandom pretty much universally loves this story. I am not in that bunch, I fell asleep on three different attempts before I managed to finish it, but I am still going to watch purely because I love your reactions
Same, mainly because Nyssa was always my favorite companion. She gets to do a lot more in the next story though, which is my favorite just because of the historical plot. I do see why others like Kinda, it’s just not my thing.
Nyssa wasn’t supposed to be a companion. She was originally only supposed to be in Keeper of Trakken, but much like a lot of Classic Who, they liked the character/actress and kept her around. However this script had already been written with just two companions. So they had to write in Nyssa but didn’t have the time to rewrite the full script giving her a limited appearance in this story……At least for these first two parts.
The story is a striking allegory for Australian colonialism. It is unclear if this is intentional but there are many striking similarities between both the Kinda themselves and the colonisers and those of the Australian Aboriginal people and theirs, such as an automatic dismissal of their status and intelligence (out of ignorance or indifference). Similar kinship systems are also reflected. The period creation in Aboriginal lore is also known as the Dreamtime of the Dreaming and the snake/serpent is a prominent feature.
Tegan having those Twin Peaks dreams. Everytime Who gets weird/abstract/metaphysical I love it. One of 5's best stories
Janet Fielding is the actress who plays Tegan and I agree she does a phenomenal job here. 80s Who often delved into the weird and experimental and Kinda is one of the best, those dreamscape sequences are a nightmarish masterclass of Janet Fielding's acting, Peter Grimwade's creative surreal direction and Peter Howell's spooky score. The entire script is riddled with spiritual themes, symbolisms and Buddhist philosophy. Great cliffhangers abound (the box one is surprisingly freaky) and the classic "An apple a day..." line is one of Five's best. Awesome you're enjoying it so far! Appreciated the Seeds Of Doom reference too.
80's/John Nathan Turner era who is some of the best stuff in the history of the show!
she is so fucking FOXY in this too. mmmmm... :)
Kinda is one the highlights of the Peter Davison years. Even Matthew Waterhouse is given more to do than normal.
Nerys Hughes who plays the nurse in this also played Rhys' Mum in the Torchwood episode "Something Borrowed".
Doctor, not nurse.
"Kinda" is an absolute classic & very unexpected when first transmitted here in the UK in 1982. Richard Todd (Sanders) was a huge film star in the 1950's/early 60's & it was quite a coup to get him on Who at the time, because he didn't often do television. All the actors are playing to the max here. Great stuff! So glad you enjoyed it & a wonderful reaction, Sesskasays. :D
Because Nyssa was a last minute addition to the TARDIS crew at the end of season 18, season 19 required rewrites to work around her inclusion, particularly in the early stories. This is why she only present in the opening of Part One.
For some season Sarah Sutton was only contracted for 24 of the 26 episodes this season, which is why she gets her brief appearances in episodes 1 and 4 but is completely out of 2 & 3.
I would also guess that with 3 companions as well as the doctor, it's difficult to find something for all of them to do and easier to just sideline one of them. That's why I prefer smaller tardis teams.
@@mikeferguson1249 I suspect it's the other way round. Given how difficult the development of this story had already been, they realised immediately that getting Christopher Bailey to rework it with an extra character was a non-starter, so they opted to just have her in the brief "book-ending" scenes; Thus they knew they only needed to book her for 24 eps.
I haven't got any of my reference books handy to check the chain of events though, so I could be wrong.
@@cooluncle4242 I get what you're saying, but there are shows with ensemble casts. It can be done, and it can be done well. Going all the way back to the very first episode of Doctor Who in 1963, the Doctor had three companions (Susan, Barbara, and Ian). Sometimes one of them would get sidelined for a time (including the Doctor himself), but they usually the found a good balance. When Susan left, she was replaced by Vicki. After that, the Doctor mostly had two companions at any given time, although the 2nd Doctor briefly travelled with Ben, Polly, and Jamie; and the 4th Doctor briefly travelled with Romana, K-9, and Adric. The 3rd Doctor had only one primary companion at any given time, but during his exile on earth the show regularly included = the Brigadier, Sergeant Benton, and/or Mike Yates.
This is one of my personal favorite doctor who episodes from all eras.
Janet Fielding absolutely kills it. The subtle political subtext is so amazing.
The hints of why Hindle is so messed up are great and rather dark. The Kinda themselves are great.
The sequences with the Mara in the dreamscape are amazing. The moving snake tattoos such a genius idea.
There r some effect failures in the final episodes. But it’s classic who what do u expect?
Absolutely love this story! Glad to see u loving it too!
It's a testament to Bailey's writing that with two lines ("I was beaten every day, never did me any harm" and "Mummy, make him go away!") we not only understand the root of Hindles madness and his entire childhood but feel sorry for him. Really heavy stuff for 80s family TV too
Kinda might honestly be my personal favourite Classic Who story.
I love how Five is like a teacher on a field trip in this story! Great reaction as always. Love the shirt!
Some amazing performances. One of the best guest casts ever assembled in Who.
Kinda is a real highlight of Season 19. A weird yet chilling psychodrama thanks to razor sharp dialogue, performances and direction.
Well this is it! The story we’ve been waiting for all of us to see, Kinda. Honestly you’ll be fine don’t worry Jess. As for myself, my experience with Kinda was again this is going back to my wilderness years of Who, that it was one of my earliest episode I borrowed at my library. I really like the story, the setting, the narrative and its monster. (Sorry Jess)
Back in the '90s I was part of a production that made a corporate video for IBM, It was set on a future space station, where the floating ball of a computer was a future AS/400. The actor in it was wearing one of the costumes from Kinda.
The actor who plays Hindle is Simon Rouse who is later best remembered for his role as DCI Jack Meadows from the longest running British police series "The Bill".
Also the actor who plays the white vampirey looking dude who talks to Tegan in her dream sequence called Jeff Stewart who is also best known as one of the original cast of "The Bill" the longest serving character PC Reg Hollis.
EastEnders' Lou Beale, Anna Wing, turns up too.
Hello Sesskasays, it's Kinda of you to react to this one ;). I remember seeing this when I was very young. It's a Kinda strange and creepy Doctor Who story... lol and it definitely scared me quite a bit as a child, but it's one of my favourites of the Peter Davison era. I believe the monster of this is perhaps one of the very few, if not the only, truly iconic Peter Davion-era 5th Doctor monster that's unique to him, one I'd love to see return.
I love it! One of my all time favorite stories ever. The script crackles throughout, from big ideas (the absurdist satirical theater is all over this one - a bit of Jarry, Beckett, and Ionesco can be seen everywhere) to the funny little interactions between characters (The Doc in particular is giving Rosencranz and Guildenstern are Dead). And all the actors just kill it, relishing in a good meaty script and knowing exactly what is asked of them (special shout out to Janet Fielding - she really levels up here, and her MaraTegan is BANANAS TERRIFYING) . Weird, creative, funny, and at times genuinely spooky - if only it didn't have that damn snake! So incredibly glad to see you vibing with this crazypants story, and your enthusiasm mixed with well-founded apprehension makes it all the more deliciouso. Brave heart, Jess, we're gonna get through this!
(God I can't wait for next week's thumbnail)
easily one of my alltime favs right here
Kinda is one of my favourite episodes of the Fifth Doctor Era. Peter Grimwade was one of the best directors for the series. The Mara is one of the most unsettling villains ever appear in Doctor Who. Genuinely terrifying and surreal.
sad the other day with passing of William Russell R.I.P
So begins the fandom tradition of referring to fans and non-fans as the We and the Not-We.
Love Kinda! I read years ago that the two playing chess in Tegan's dream are representations of Adric and Nyssa. While the other is a distorted version of the Doctor (he sits in a crate that could be the Tardis.) Very trippy.
Boxes everywhere in this one... sometimes boxes within boxes.
One of my all time favourite Doctor Who stories, easily in my top ten. The production has its limitations, mainly due to budget, but with this script and these actors it doesn't matter. Simon Rouse as Hindle is one of the all time great Doctor Who villains.
In this story we have the actress Mary Morris who plays the blind woman Panna. She also appears in the seminal TV program The Prisoner where she plays the only official Number#2 by being shown at the title séquence of the show. Other female Number#2's were only reveal at the end of the Prisoner épisodes.
The Mara is one of the most unsettling villains in all of Who.
I think it's time we see it back for a rematch. Or the Tereleptils.
In the Big Finish story The Cradle of the Snake, you see just how powerful the Mara can be when it's at full power, and it's terrifying. It's definitely a villain with a lot of untapped potential!
Yes. Now the fifth Doctor era starts fully. I loved this mind fuck of a story as a teenager and Peter. Also so happy you get it and Tegan. She gets a bad press but a fab real tough cookie of a companion but she was superb and real. Great dynamics. So happy watching you react to these especially, I absolutely adore this era and Doctor. Thank you as always. Xx
@@Georgie_R Yeah, IMHO the issue with Tegan isn't the character herself, or how Janet plays her; It's just the number repetitive argument scenes that were written for her. For a long while the production team didn't let her learn or grow, and right to the end JN-T kept pushing her - and later Mark Strickson - back into the boxes he'd created for their characters.
@@Georgie_R Agreed.
@@therealpbristow Good point. I think Janet Fielding herself has commented on how limited the companions were during Classic Who, particularly in comparison to how much agency they have in New Who.
Kinda is an absolute, stone cold Classic. One of the very best Doctor Who stories of all time and up at the very top of the tier for Peter Davison.
For those of us who know you have a fear of snakes, this is the story we were excited for you to watch. :) And I KNEW you'd mention the Seeds of Doom! Remember the plant music?
You're right about Tegan's whole section being scary. After Tegan is possessed, I think Janet Fielding does a great job imitating the Mara guy who was tormenting her. I didn't remember much about this story but I'm loving it on a rewatch. The side characters are great.
Ahh the plant music scene! One of my favourite moments in all of classic who. So funny and creepy at the same time.
The story is unusually for Who, based on an established SF tale, a short story) expanded into a novel) by Ursula Le Guin called The Word For World Is Forest
I often think that how confusing someone thinks this story is can be gauged by how familiar they are with LeGuin's work.
Wow URSULA LE GUINN was a fabulous author. wizard of earthsea trilogy, should be a movie
Jonny Lee Miller (who would later be known as Sherlock Holmes from the series "Elemantary" and "Trainspotting") makes his uncredited screen debut as one of the Kinda children.
We are commemorating the d day landings in the UK at the moment, Richard Todd was a great actor but its well documented that he parachuted into France on d day.
He was also part of a division that was sent as emergency reinforcements to help out during the Battle Of the Bulge.
He rode a glider into the Pegasus Bridge battle, he even acts the part of his own commanding officer in the best film of the incident: 'The Longest Day'.
@@stevetheduck1425 Actually he wasn't with the Gliders. He was parachuted in with 7th Para Battalion which linked up with the Glider troops and helped defend the bridges, so he was present at the battle and did meet Major Howard
I really hope Jess is watching the version with updated effects 😅
The references to the garden of Eden are abundant
All inserted by Peter Grimwade, apparently. The writer was not happy about his Buddhist parable acquiring all that Judeo-Christian symbolism.
@@therealpbristow I can see why the writer wouldn't like the changes, but it does open up the story as a different religion from another culture.
It blew me away when I realised the Mara is played by the same guy who was Reg Hollis in "The Bill" - popular British police TV show, and Reg was the most straight laced and decent of the beat constables.
Love this whole season. The risks taken didn’t always work 100%, but they were so entertaining and after 7 years of Tom, it really felt fresh and new. They also spent some decent time on the relationships of the TARDIS team but not too much. It is still one of my favorites. I was 10-11 when I first saw it so the nostalgia is there in force. 😊
Great cast and a very interesting unusual story.
Todd played by Nerys Hughes worked so well with Peter Davison who shines as The Doctor. She had Barbara vibes about her.
Two fantastic cliffhangers. It was really annoying to have to wait a week to find out what happened next back in 1982. Such a great season.
Funny how 2 actors appearing here would be regulars on The Bill a few years later (Reg Hollis and Jack Meadows).
There was a fan rumour for ages that this written by Kate Bush under a male pen name! It makes sense in a way, lots of the video effects and weird visual bits could be straight out of some of her early 80s vids, like 'Breathing ' , even some of her themes from that era fit it too (colonial exploitation, power of nature and dreams, sexuality and biblically imagery, end of the world) .
Todd is a cool one off companion style character as well, the actress was well known in the UK for a hit female lead sitcom called The Liver Birds , set in Liverpool.
I think it's time The Mara came back (apologies for those who are nervous about Snakes 😅)
Ah, but the Mara... spoilers.
I have never heard this theory! I love it to death and am now imagining a whole alternate history of Doctor Who scored by Kate and Kate Bush videos on the concepts of time travel.
Me too! There maybe other stands to this idea that I can't remember right now , but if you check out the video for The Dreaming , she wears an outfit a bit like an 80s version of a certain silver Monster, albeit minus the chest and head piece, maybe a borrowed item?! The zoom shot into Tegan's eye is also very like something from her early 80s vids, Doctor Who and certain music acts were exploring what could be done with the new video effect technology at the time, so there is a wonderful similar visual vibe anyway.
My second favourite classic Who story (we haven't got to the first one yet). Looking forward to the next reaction.
I love Kinda, it's totally my kind of bizarre and always gives me nostalgic early 80s pop video vibes in places.
Tremendously engaging story with an outstanding guest cast.
Kinda was one of the creepiest yet coolest Peter Davison serials.
It's perhaps worth mentioning that esteemed British film star Richard Todd, aside from receiving acting lessons from Matthew Waterhouse, was also one of the many anxious British soldiers dropped over Normandy during the allied invasion, 80 years ago this week (an event he later helped bring to life on screen). More pertinent to this show, he also appeared in another British war classic 'The Dambusters', alongside Michael Redgrave - the grandfather of Kate Stewart actress Gemma Redgrave.
"What happened to the others?" is a good question - unfortunately the story forgets to tell us by the end of it!
It's theorised that the people who Tegan saw during her hallucinations were the missing crew members who had something done to them by the Mara that made them that way.
@@someguy3752 I think the novelisation speculates and says that the three crewmen may have ended up in the same situation as Tegan and refused to obey, and were then killed
This story was originally Seska, written as a possible Tom Baker story but it was rewrtitten for Peter Davison and also Richard Todd Sanders was an awesome actor and he lived near me at the time this story was broadcast he lived in Lincolnshire in a town called Market Deeping and I was in a city not far away.
Great story, one of Davison's best. Not to be mean but your reactions to the snake are entertaining and I've been looking forward to this reaction lol, though I hope it doesn't cause you too much distress.
This is my absolute favorite story of classic who. This is one of my favorite Tardis Teams. The Fifth Doctor is my favorite classic Doctor. Tegan is my second favorite classic Who companion.
A fascinating story from season 19. "Trippy" is a great description! You are correct, Janet Fielding absolutely kills it in this story!
Jonny Lee Miller has his first role as one of the Kinda.
Doesn't he play one of the Kinda children
@@LightLife4 Yup.
I noted while watching Boom that the ambulances looked a bit like the travel machines here.
I have always loved this story!! Talking about the arrogance of colonialism, and the way the 'natives' were treated, has been done before, but this adds a spiritual part. There used to be a lack of appreciation because it's not 'just' scifi, but I'm glad to see that's changed over time. Also, TEGAN!!!!!!
This may prove to be one of the profounder psychological experiences of Sesska's life.
Regeneration can be so funny. The Third and Fourth Doctor have proven themselves to be a pretty decent magician, and here the Fifth Doctor can't wrap his head around a simple coin trick.
I suspect that was more for the benefit of their captor watching them - setting up the game early so that maybe he doesn’t get suspicious later. It didn’t work, but that might’ve been the plan.
Yeah. The Third Doctor was also adept a Venusian Aikido, but previous and subsequent Doctors mostly had no fighting skill (although 4 and 10 could both handle a sword).
@@ericjette2435 And Five, in The King’s Demon!
The older officer is played by Richard Todd (1919-2009, Ireland-British) He enlisted in the British Army in 1941. He served, and joined the Paratroops. (This is written on June 7th, 2024) Todd and his group were dropped into Normandy, night of June 5-6th to capture a bridge, later named Pegasus, for the Paratroop logo. When the movie, "the Longest Day" that dramatized D-Day, in 1962, Todd was an Actor, and was in the film, fighting again at Pegasus. A Bagpipe musician, was with the troops, when the British forces met at that bridge, victory over the Germans. Richard Todd acted in the film "The Dambusters" (1955) -about another actual WW2 mission, of incredible risk. Todd acted in a number of films and TV. His Military demeanor, in episode 1 of Kinda would be accurate. Tales are told, by the other actors (even on DVD commentary, interviews) that Matthew W' who was Adrian did not know how experienced R.Todd was, and tried to advise him on acting in Doctor Who terms,....not, the best advice, and embarrassing.
This was a tricky read... Typing on a tablet? If so my sympathies. But "Adrian" gave me a giggle. =:o}
@@therealpbristow Yeah, spellcheck did that, I did not notice ;)
It's been a while since I saw this episode; I'd forgotten how deeply unsettling the dream sequences were!
I hope next weeks is the special edition but that might actually kill Jess😭
Snake story? I'm sure I don't know what you mean. 😇 It had been a last minute decision to make Nyssa an ongoing character after The Keeper of Traken and subsequently she wasn't contracted for every episode of this season, which is why she's asleep in the TARDIS, off screen for episodes two and three of this story.
It is a dream sequence when Tegan is taken over by the Mara, the Mara has invaded her dream. The two old people she sees playing chess are distorted dream versions of Adric and Nyssa, who were playing draughts at the beginning of the episode. The weird looking hut near the old couple is a distorted dream version of the TARDIS, the Mara who tries to convince Tegan to let him use her body is a dream version of the Doctor, etc.
A lot of the character and place names in the story are taken from Buddhism and the story works in a lot of ways like a Buddhist parable. There are also a lot of sly references to the story of the Garden of Eden: Deva Loka being described as "paradise", apples, serpents, etc.
Richard Todd (Saunders) is the first Academy Award nominee to appear in Doctor Who. )He was nominated for the 1949 film The Hasty Heart.)
Janet Fielding (Tegan) and Simon Rouse (Hindle) both give outstanding performances in this story.
One of my favs. And you summed it up perfectly with: 06:35 "What is this???!!!" Jupp - thats Kinda alright!
There's something in this story to watch out for, beyond snakes and symbols. The studio floor appears more and more. The whole story is happening on a white flat plain, even when it's in a jungle.
Was waiting to see your reaction to this, given your fear of snakes 😂 also, so funny eatching Adrian Mills (the savage 'Aris') in this, as he was most famous in the UK for his regular appearance on a magazine program here un the UK called 'That's Life', where he was quite the buffoon.
Janet Fielding who played Tegan absolutely nails it. Interestingly childhood trauma aren't touched on as Hindle clearly has a troubled past
Sesska, I love this top! It's giving Bill Potts (12s Companion from s10 of new Who)
This is a fabulous story. It works on so many levels. It’s experimental, highly literary, superbly acted by all, with themes of Buddhism, Judaeo-Christian myths, colonialism, mental disintegration. Amazing stuff
Hey Jess, you've landed on my all time favourite - the first one that truly scared me as a kid. I started watching aged 8 with The Leisure Hive and watched every story with wide-eyed amazement, but Kinda was the first one that had me not wanting to go to bed (was some dude going to appear in my dreams and possess me?). I remember something that Hindle says in Part 3/4 really hitting me hard (you'll know when you see it). Isn't it amazing, the way the void is infinite and claustrophobic at the same time? Kinda boasts acting royalty. Nerys Hughes was a star from The Liver Birds and no end of TV drama, Richard Todd (Sanders) was a great British cinema heartthrob in the '40s, Mary Morris (Panna) had a career spanning from the '30s in film and theatre (lots of Shakespeare), Anna Wing (the old lady in the Elizabethan costume) became Lou Beale the touch matriarch in the soap EastEnders, and Hindle went on to be the boss in police drama The Bill. Great script = great cast = great telly! Anyway, come to London and we'll do the Doctor Who walking tour, showing locations used in Classic and nuWho!
Janet Fielding is the name of the actress who plays Tegan she is also a real life australian like her character born in Brisbane, Queensland unfortunately she never made a hit here in Australia.
Tegan speaks in a posh English accent once she becomes a baddie.
The Fifth Doctor was the first one I really watched as a kid, because it was shown on weeknights at around teatime, whereas prior to that it was shown early Saturday afternoon when I was either playing out or forced to visit family.
But I was also prone to either sinus and/or ear infections at that age, and it was under the feverish influence of one of those that i saw this story.
In many ways, being somewhat deliruous adds to the whole experience. Definitely a favourite.
That's a very "Bill Potts" shirt, love it.
I read that they had planned to get rid of Nyssa but Peter Davidson fought them because he thought her character worked best with his Doctor. They had already written this so they made her sick to explain her absence.
No, that was much later on, when Nyssa actually was written out.
@@therealpbristow read Wikipedia Four to Doomsday. Yo see where I read it.
@@stacyp2186 Interesting. A whole paragraph given to it, but with no citation. And in the entry for "Kinda", we have a contradictory paragraph, *also* with no citation.
I've done a some quick searching for things like "sarah sutton doctor who contract" etc., and not found anything that clarifies the situation. I think I'll add a "Citation needed" to both entries...
Darn. Can't do it right now as I'm on a VPN. Hopefully I'll remember when I get home from work.
they used plaque-dispensing tablets to create the Red-stained Teeth
disclosing
I love "Kinda". It's weird but it's also fascinant and great.
For the record the Mara and this story is one of Steven Moffat favorites. He has good taste !
Homestly I'd forgotten this story featured Movie Star and D-Day veteran Richard Todd! Most famously the star of "The Dambusters."
Tegan became my favourite with this story love her
Another wonderful reaction! This is one of my favorite stories. The sequences within Tegan's mind are outstanding, with the couple playing chess mirroring Adric and Nyssa, and the metallic box as the TARDIS. For years, there was an ongoing rumor that singer Kate Bush penned the script under the pseudonym Christopher Bailey!
Only in Doctor Who could sitting down for a nice little innocent sleep by some wind chimes in a forest lead to such trouble 🤣
I've been waiting for this one. A definite highlight of Peter Davison's era.
Classic Doctor Who. With thought provoking, intriguing, and well-played stories, that could also scare the viewers too. Kinda introduced us to a very insidious enemy in the Mara.
Hey, it's Sandra Hutchinson from Liver Birds
The show is about to get psychedelic with this one.
Aside from the obvious slip into supernatural territory (which now seems topical again), there's something quite modern about the way Janet Fielding is built up in this serial - if only as a kind of conduit for something. The choices presented by having three companions are limited. In Jodie's era, they tended to handle things more as a group. But this is an opportunity to put the spotlight on an individual - at Sarah Sutton's expense.
2:54 A perfect fourth, actually, Doctor. One semitone away from.... the Devil's Interval :)
We've all been waiting for you to watch Kinda, well, kind-a.
"Could be foreshowing for me screaming". yes, that exactly what it was...
My Favourite Davison story
Welcome to ‘Deva Loka Ink’. Close to my top Davison story and in my top dozen or so Classic stories. The imagery is still striking, the story gripping and great performances, especially from Janet Fielding and Simon Rouse
This is my favourite 5th doctor story its one of the few where it really has some great dialogue till season 25 and why I like it is nothing like new who in its so open to interpretation with a garden of eden concept and criticism on imperialism.
I was really waiting for you to get to this one. 😂
Obviously we have now established a pattern in Adric's behaviour, which either marks him out as very smart or very stupid! Simon Rouse does a really good job in this story of turning Hindle into someone with whom reason cannot be applied. He's almost like certain past and future world leaders....
The more trippy parts of this had a vibe of sapphire and steel you never got round ot watching
The celery is definitely why he subconsciously didn't trust the Doctor from the get go
Magic mushrooms were legal until about 2016
As you can tell by the beginning of Peter Davidson.
This is a favourite story of mine. It's weird and creepy with some fantastic performances from everyone involved. Glad you like it too Jess.👍
If anyone thought "The Deadly Assassin" was trippy... meet "Kinda."
The fandom pretty much universally loves this story. I am not in that bunch, I fell asleep on three different attempts before I managed to finish it, but I am still going to watch purely because I love your reactions
Yeah I’m not a fan either
Same, mainly because Nyssa was always my favorite companion. She gets to do a lot more in the next story though, which is my favorite just because of the historical plot. I do see why others like Kinda, it’s just not my thing.
I've been looking forward to this reaction for quite a while.
Nyssa wasn’t supposed to be a companion. She was originally only supposed to be in Keeper of Trakken, but much like a lot of Classic Who, they liked the character/actress and kept her around. However this script had already been written with just two companions. So they had to write in Nyssa but didn’t have the time to rewrite the full script giving her a limited appearance in this story……At least for these first two parts.
Any snakes will be rubber and very fake. Kinda had an entire complex book written about it.
They need to bring the Mara back!
The story is a striking allegory for Australian colonialism. It is unclear if this is intentional but there are many striking similarities between both the Kinda themselves and the colonisers and those of the Australian Aboriginal people and theirs, such as an automatic dismissal of their status and intelligence (out of ignorance or indifference). Similar kinship systems are also reflected. The period creation in Aboriginal lore is also known as the Dreamtime of the Dreaming and the snake/serpent is a prominent feature.
Kinda is one of the most interesting and original stories in all of Doctor Who imo, and one of the best of the 1980s
Kinda to rhyme with Linda...Nyssa's fainting was to cover that Sarah Sutton who played her was contracted for fewer episodes than the other regulars🎩
So two other players played chess in Tegan's interior space? One looked regal, the other a self-important man... Nyssa and Adric equivalents.