I've been excited for your reaction to the giant snake scene for ages and it did not disappoint! Good thing it wasn't the special edition, you'd have been finished. Kinda must also have one of the best, most colourful guest casts of any classic - Mary Morris is Yoda levels of cool as the wizened old Panna, Richard Todd (the first Oscar-winning actor to ever work on the show) as Sanders going from gruff officer to childlike and gleeful, Nerys Hughes (who you may remember as Rhys's mum from Torchwood) as level-headed Todd who would've have made a good companion in her own right and last but not least, Simon Rouse devouring the scenery as the delightfully unhinged Hindle (my dad and I still quote "Silence!" at each other).
It's the central line of the story, for me. Hindle knows he's broken; His rigid upbringing (complete with corporal punishment) has left him totally unprepared for a world that doesn't follow the rules he was taught. He grew up in a "box" of unrealistic rules and expectations, and he literally can't think outside of it... Or see any way to cope except by destroying everything he fears, or destroying himself....Until something, or someone, can finally persuade him to "open the box", and embrace the reality outside. It takes the Doctor to show the Kinda how to save themselves from the insidious evil of the Mara; But it's the Kinda who save Hindle from the psychological damage of his upbringing.
@@joshuajoshua2732 I've talked about this story with quite a few Classic Who fans, and most of them agree that the papier-mache snake at the end completely ruins an otherwise great story. There's just no way I can take that thing seriously as a threat.
@@AtariDad Yeah, Sesska’s reaction to the snake completely changes when she sees it full size. Her reaction would have been different with the CGI snake I think 🤔 🐍
This is definitely one of the best classic stories. Davison has a lot of great stories but his Doctor and era are quite underrated for having quite a lot of great stories, can't wait for you to experience more of him!
There's a version of this story available with updated visual effects, including a very realistic CGI snake at the end. I'm sure you'll be eager to check this out. 😂. One of the children in the Kinda tribe is a very young Jonny Lee Miller (Elementary).
The rejuvenation of Panna/Karuna has interesting parallels in the two "mad" men, Sanders and Hindle, who have both also regressed to childhood (mentally, not physically) but each for different reasons.
I bloody love KINDA. IMO it's the best story of this season and probably the best Fifth Doctor adventure. The ending of Episode Three sends chills every time I see it. The concept of good being stalked by evil is a story as old as time, and the fact it's seen as repetitive cycle makes it rather doom-laden. The casting in this story is brilliant - Mary Morris as Panna (the Old Woman), Simon Rouse (Hindle - slowly having a breakdown), Nerys Hughes is a beautiful foil to the Doctor as Doctor Todd (who knew we ever needed an extra companion when the TARDIS was already so darn crowded?).
@@Concreteowl Yes, the whole idea of the Mara is that it is never physically real. Making it look too photo-realistically real is massively missing the point.
"[Horror] is not a genre that is super highly regarded" - Fully agree. But it's also a genre that I get the impression children appreciate more than adults. There are adult horror fans, absolutely, but horror is a fairly niche genre in adult media... While it more often gets mainstream appreciation when aimed specifically at children, within the child audience it's aimed at. Since you enjoy the vibes of Classic Who, and clearly have an appreciation of horror (and outfits), I think you'd enjoy Sapphire and Steel. Sapphire has gorgeous outfits in most if not all of the stories, it's very much Classic Who vibes, and... It's ghost stories made for the then modern turn of 80s so dips into horror with a decent frequency. There are also only six serials across 34 half-hour episodes so it's a relatively fast watch. Kinda is a fantastic story, and the snake only becoming... Very pink and very large... at the end of the story definitely helps it.
seconding Sapphire & Steel, I really think it'd be up your alley, especially if you enjoy the weird "our special effects budget is £2 so we have to make our horror all abstract and lean on the acting to carry it" vibe of classic Who
@@ecyor0 And 1981 (when Kinda was made) was prime Sapphire and Steel time! So it's about the right time to compare and contrast the two shows - BBC and ITV were rival channels and these were their two leading telefantasy efforts at the time.
It's a good job you watched the original version. The special edition DVD release includes optional updated effects, including a much more realistic CGI snake at the end.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned it yet (unless I missed it), but many of the characters names represent concepts in Buddhism. The people in Tegan's dream are Annica (impermanence), Anatta (illusion of self), and Dukkha (pain/suffering/dissatisfaction); together, they are the "three marks of existence." Karuna (the girl) is compassion. Panna (the old woman) is wisdom/intelligence/understanding/insight.
When Tegan told The Doctor about when she climbed a tree and dropped an apple on Aris' head, I was surprised that did not reference the anecdote of The Doctor doing that to Issac Newton ("The Pirate Planet"). Something that no one has mentioned (yet) is the two wonderful actors in this story - Richard Todd ( "The Hasty Heart", "The Virgin Queen", "The Longest Day", etc.), and Mary Morris ("Macbeth", "A is for Andromeda", "Anna Karenina", "The Prisoner", etc.). Morris first appeared on stage at the age of 10 (!), Long before Doctor Who. Todd was Ian Fleming's outright choice to play James Bond in "Doctor No".
The Mara quickly establishes itself as a supernatural force on the scale of previous boss horrors like Azal or the Fendahl, but the snake motif is very useful. It embodies a kind of terror that dates back to prehistoric times - although the realisation of our giant pink python *ahem* is rather more terrifying in updated versions. As for the rest of the story, there's nothing more confusing for Brits of my generation than seeing Adrian Mills (Aris) as the temporary embodiment of evil. In my youth, he was a presenter on the BBC's whimsical consumer affairs programme 'That's Life!', which included many hard-hitting pieces; such as a report on a dog that could say 'Sausages!' - It's as ridiculous as it sounds.
Such a great story, Davison very much hit his stride here. True, the Mara's s giant snake form is up there with the Taran Wood Beast and the Giant Rat of Weng-Chiang, but in your case it was actually a good thing. The slithering tattoo was super creepy, though! By the way, to this day some Doctor Who fans refer to non-fans as the "Not We."
I honestly prefer the original snake here to the CGI "remaster" version. Sure, it doesn't look _realistic,_ but it looks pretty good imo. I'll take an unconvincing but creative prop over "realistic" CGI any day. In Germanic and Slavic folklore, a "mara" (sometimes spelled "mare"; source of the term "nightmare"), is a sort of demon or goblin which sits on a sleeping person's chest, causing bad dreams. In Buddhism, Mara is an antagonistic celestial being who opposes enlightenment. And there are several gods of death, or of death and rebirth, named Mara (or similar) across various Indo-European cultures.
I love how CRAZY the crazy people are in this story! It adds to the tension, because, what can you do? The Mara are related, but a separate threat! People have trashed the whole story because of the snake at the end, but that ignores so much good!! One of the best Fifth Doctor stories!!
(1) Kinda is both Robert Shearman (the guy who wrote the ninth Doctor story, Dalek) and former Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat's favourite classic Who story (well, alongside The Ark in Space for Moffat, a fourth Doctor you weren't especially fond of). I really like it too, as does most of the rest of the fandom. It's considered a classic and one of the fifth Doctor's very best stories. It's a fascinating story on anti-colonialism, both in how it shows the negative effect it has on the native lifeforms and how it affects the people on the actual expedition itself due to the pressures and demands of the job and their dogmatic adherence to rules and regulations. Simon Rouses' performance as Hindle is widely acclaimed as one of the best portrayals of mental illness in the history of Doctor Who and his mental degradation due to implied childhood abuse and the toxic masculinity of Sanders is terribly realistic and uncomfortable to watch as a result. I also love the setting and how it draws comparisons with paradise and the story of the Garden of Eden. Mara is the representation of the devil in this scenario and is described as coming from the "dark places of the inside". So, basically it uses dark emotions that reside within us all, like hate, jealousy and revenge, to tempt those weak enough to give into it and gain corporeal form in our world to cause havoc and destruction. Because that's what it revels in, it's quite literally supposed to be a manifestation of the devil. The fact that Tegan succumbs to the Mara's influence says very interesting things about her and they're not particularly positive. So far Tegan's anger and paranoia over being unable to get back to Heathrow airport (she works there as a flight attendant) have been a big part of her character and we've seen how that's lead to her making some rash decisions. The Mara sensed this unrest within her and used it to gain control. The three figures in her dream represent her distrust of Nyssa, Adric and the Doctor. We saw Adric and Nyssa playing draughts at the start of the story and later in episode 1 they're represented by the two old people playing the same game within Tegan's dreams. Then, there's Dukkha, who's name sounds like a weird distortion of Doctor, and he taunts and plays games with Tegan, which shows her state of mind regarding him and how she has no idea what to think of him and whether he'll ever get her back home. It's an incredibly interesting commentary on Tegan as a character and a brilliantly creative way to go about doing it. I also think the dream sequences were very well done and really unsettling. I love how the dream sequences are in B&W too because it effectively gets across that Tegan is in a place unlike anything she's ever experienced, and I like how it instills fear and makes the viewers uncomfortable because of the differences between the light and dark parts of the set due to the harsh lighting. The production choices they made also makes the bizarre makeup of the three figures in the dream standout a lot more too.
I suppose thinking about it, Tegan is a bit unique in that she hadn't chosen to travel with the Doctor at this point so understandably does harbour resentment at being taken away from her life and the Doctor not being able to return her.
I hadn't picked up on the figures in Tegan's dream representing Lyssa, Adric, and the Doctor, but I see it now. I love how after 40-ish years there are still more layers to this story I hadn't previously discovered.
Kinda's other contribution to the fan-lore is the term 'Not-We' (to describe anyone not of the Kinda), which got hijacked and turned into a descriptor for non-fans. Although, knowing what this fandom is like, it probably anyone who doesn't like the same thing...
Long-time viewer, and I've been waiting for this one pretty much since Classic Who reactions started, especially after Jess's reaction to the stop-motion Medusa in The Mind Robber. Not because I want to see Jess terrified, but because the Mara prop is infamously terrible so I thought it would be deeply funny to see if her phobia would be triggered by such an obviously hokey fake giant snake and therefore make her the only person in the history of Who to actually be scared by it. Expectations met, glad she went with the original rather than the actually reasonable updated effects.
We've seen the same overlapping reincarnation thing that happens with Panna and Karuna before, remember. With K'Anpo and Cho-Je in Pertwee's final story "Planet of the Spiders" (which is equally full of Buddhism). The same consciousness in two different bodies. The Doctor has done it too occasionally; The Watcher in Logopolis, and of course in multi-Doctor stories like The Three Doctors when he communes with his own mind in different incarnations ("contact!")...
24:50 Yeah, another youtube channel covered this with an arachnophobe discussing giant spiders in video games and how actually, the more monstrous and weird the spider monster gets, the less it triggers the phobia because at the end of the day, phobias are triggered by very specific stimuli, it's not "the general concept of a spider scares me" it's "the image of a spider fires a specific set of neurons and causes an uncontrollable panic response". Similar situation I'd imagine, giant snake puppet is less stressful than realistic snake-sized rubber snake.
This story was intended as a possible Tom Baker story, and having well known actor Richard Todd in it as Sanders is awesome. I hope Seska you can if you have not get to see, and react to classic sci-fi series Blake,s Seven which started late 70s to early 80s it is well awesome in billions of ways if you have not yet seen Blake,s Seven it was created by Terry Nation who created the Drs arch-enemies the dreaded Daleks for classic Dr Who.
It's still hard not to see the parallel between this story and Brtish colonial rule in India. Science (particularly climate science) seems to be challenging our ideas about technological sophistication being superior to cultural sophistication - as if the two went hand in hand. I'm reminded of the question put to Gandhi: 'What do you think of western civilization?' - to which he famously replied: 'I think it would be a good idea'.
Atleast your through the worst of it with snakes. The giant snake might look fake now but i assure as a 7 year old watching this at the time it was quite terrorfying i'm glad you watched the original version as it was broadcast in 1982 i think the CGI version would had scared you too much.
I had a feeling that the giant snake wouldn't really scare you and I'm glad it turned out that way 😊 also really happy that you're enjoying the 5th doctor, it's such a fun era of the show 😁
Well, the Mara is an evil that takes the form of an imaginary snake. So, we know that the special effects really wanted the snake to be realistic looking and scary, but since it is a "snake of our imaginary fears" it doesn't have to look realistic. At least, that's what I say, if I want a reason it looked like that beyond "can't do that on a five quid budget".
Hi! Just discovered your channel recently (last week) and am enjoying watching your reactions. I'd laugh about your snake phobia, but I remember my own phobia of flies. It has kept me from even watching certain stories, like Planet Of The Dead. At least you've conquered your fears better than me. There are some really good stories coming up, and look forward to seeing what you think of them.
There's actually a remastered version of "Kinda" with a much more realistic snake. Believe me you don't want to watch that. I'm like you when it comes to snakes and it totally freaked me out to such an extent that I was physically ill.
@@chrispalmer7893 yeah... I always want to like him, but he sometimes makes it very hard. light spoilers below: Oddly I have no issue with say for instance Turlough even though hes often equally "off"- maybe because hes not a teen I suppose? I cant really self evaluate on that tbh Id hope im not that superficial but hell if I know lol. It really may just be the Wesley Crusher effect
@@Daelyas To be fair to Wil Wheaton, the problem is more that people were really bad at writing teenagers back then. So it's not that he's a teenage, it's that he's a badly written teenager. Waterhouse suffers from that to some extent too, but by all acounts he appears to be as obnoxious in real life as Adric was on screen. (This might be me being superficial, but a self-pubished autobiography written in the third person...?)
About the two snake reactions that had you super scared; were they Vikings and Supernatural? I'm glad you enjoyed this story too. It's a good one. One thing I like about this story is the way that Todd slips into the companion role with the Doctor. She even solves the problem with Hindle going crazy. And this is another episode where Adric does something that makes me like him less. There is one thing I wish was different though; I wish Tegan was the one possessed the whole time rather than the Mara passing to Aris, because Janet Fielding's performance while possessed was fantastic. Tegan didn't appear in episode 3, so I wonder if she had the week off.
So excited for the reaction Kinda is a great story with psychological and metaphysical tones that work together brilliantly. But the giant snake is rather silly. The cg alternative is more impressive
Great reaction as always to one of the best 5th Doctor stories. Unfortunately, there are a few spoiler comments here. I wish people would stick to comments on this story rather than future stories.
Oh the Snake reaction was perfect! The way your reaction evolved as it proved was great. Didn't disappoint 😁 Glad it's ok for us to enjoy your misery 😜
Glad you watched the original effects version and not the updated effects version with the updated cgi snake. You’re not out of the woods yet though, this story has a sequel.
The Mara (& the 'real-life' mythological creature that it was based on) kind of gave me an idea for a powerful, almost god-like MLP arch-villain character called Mara Dreamdancer, who's half Unicorn Pony, half Nightmare Demon. She was once an ordinary and cute Unicorn Princess, but when she was corrupted, she became the evil and terrifying Queen of Nightmares. (Also, her one great weakness is, like an arachnophobe who is terrified of spiders... she has an ironic & irrational fear of... candy & sweets...)
A great, cerebral, clever story. The snake is a little naff, but doesn’t detract from it at all. Todd is fantastic. Would’ve been a really good companion. The cast are terrific. The portrayals of breakdowns and possession are superbly done. The writing is too notch, and the conclusion is satisfying. I too would find paradise ‘a little too green’ Probably in my top 5 Fifth Doctor stories
Jess you are a Brave soul. Of course you don’t like Snakes i understand. but you got through it and you were ok. Well done! Can I say your wimpier was abit adorable. But The mara snake it’s self isn’t a great effect but on blu ray collection they updated it and the new Effects look great (but of course you wouldn’t like it). Also I discovered the actor playing the Jester, he’s from where I live.
I'm glad she didn't watch the updated version... "Snakedance" is still worse though... even WITH the original fx, so I'm still a little worried about her reaction to that one...
Ah, Kinda, the first great story of the Peter Davison era. The blu-ray set for Davison's first season features updated special effects that fixes the snake. It looks a lot better.
The whole story has an odd artificiality that works well: the white studio floor is visible many times, and plastic windchimes in a fake forest, foam plastic caves. All of it parallels things like the guardian battlesuit being mocked with a shape of a box made with twigs. - not to mention all the other boxes acting as both story devices ( the TARDIS for example ), as well as symbols for closed minds.
Can’t wait for your reaction to the newest doctor who episode. Actually felt like doctor who for once! And people have been saying that throughout this series but I honestly think THIS is the one that actually feels like old who
If you feel brave enough, the BBC channel has an official comparison between the Mara in this episode and the CGI special edition DVD one: ruclips.net/video/bSExEevtc6g/видео.html
(2) Once Tegan gives in and the Mara gains access to our world, it realises she's weak and has no influence on this planet to wreak the required level of destruction, so seeks another body to takeover and that's where Aris comes in. He'd been established as being distraught over his brother being taken as prisoner by the colonists and the Mara uses his anger and desire for revenge to take control of not just him, but the rest of the Kinda too, who blindly follow him because they believe Aris being able to speak as a male Kinda (only female Kindas have the gift of voice) is a miracle and part of some prophecy of a man with the gift of voice coming among them that will lead them to salvation and so must be obeyed. This is exactly what the Mara wants and it plots to lead the Kinda on a fruitless attack on the dome, which will result in the destruction of both the colonists and the Kinda, two civilisations will fall. The maximum level of death and destruction will have been achieved and the Mara will return to its domain and wait for the next civilisation to arise. The wheel of time will keep turning, as it has always done. Civilisations will fall and out of their ashes new ones will rise, and the Mara feasts on all this pain and suffering and it causes the wheel to turn and time to move forward, which ties back to this story being set on a planet that is very much like the garden of Eden. The story of the Mara is basically a retelling of the most famous origin myth. The apples and snake imagery are very clear allusions to this. The colonist's decision to leave this planet and deem it unsuitable for colonisation also seems to be a rejection of paradise as a concept. The planet, which was very intentionally call Deva Loka (a place that is the dwellings of Gods in both Hinduism and Buddhism) was referred to as perfect and like a paradise several times in the story, but the Mara proved that all was not what it seemed. The temptation of a planet like this and the illusion of perfect harmony it has is just so the evil that lurks beneath can hide and cower away, waiting to strike. Again, this entire story is a rejection of paradise as a concept, it's a fallacy. Such a place can't exist because perfection is unattainable and impossible and to seek such things will only lead to your destruction. The Doctor saying paradise is a little too green for him at the end is a great way to succinctly get that point across and a perfect line to end the story. The way this all ties in with the anti-colonial message is brilliant because the Kinda are portrayed as the only beings that can survive on a planet like this because they're the only ones that truly understand it and all the dangers it brings, while the human colonists naively dream of it as a paradise and dismiss the Kinda as mindless savages. In the end, all the humans have to retreat back to their own planet and leave Deva Loka to the Kinda because they're the only ones enlightened enough to actually live in it. I mean, the only reason Hindle was healed in the end was because of the Kinda's Jhana box, which proves how advanced in many ways the Kinda are compared to humans. This is all very interesting and I find Kinda to be a very enjoyable and intellectually stimulating story to watch. This story gives no easy answers and really forces you to think and it's all the better for it.
So VERY MILD SPOILERS for the series 14 finale... ...but how appropriate is it that this gets posted today and the episode features a very small Mara reference?
The couple of scenes of Tegan and Adric improvising time-wasting dialogue because the episode came in under-time is the only really weak part of this story.
Are you asking if Doctor Who is worth watching while you're watching someone do a reaction video to it(btw an episode from the shows 19th season)? If you've gotten this far, I think it's time for you to step down the rabbit hole that is Doctor Who. It has no end, but you'll be glad you did. There are many opinions as to where you should start watching the show but I always say watch the very first episode and then swing a cat. The very first episode was broadcast November 23rd 1963 and it was called "An Unearthly Child".
Ah Mara, the god of beasts
The timing of this video's upload is borderline prophetic
This is one reason why Tegan is the most underrated companion. Her acting as the Mara is so scary.
I've been excited for your reaction to the giant snake scene for ages and it did not disappoint! Good thing it wasn't the special edition, you'd have been finished. Kinda must also have one of the best, most colourful guest casts of any classic - Mary Morris is Yoda levels of cool as the wizened old Panna, Richard Todd (the first Oscar-winning actor to ever work on the show) as Sanders going from gruff officer to childlike and gleeful, Nerys Hughes (who you may remember as Rhys's mum from Torchwood) as level-headed Todd who would've have made a good companion in her own right and last but not least, Simon Rouse devouring the scenery as the delightfully unhinged Hindle (my dad and I still quote "Silence!" at each other).
"You can't mend people, can you?? YOU CAN'T MEND PEOPLE!!!"
Is one of the most terrifying and sad moments the show ever did.
Yeah now I think about it from a psychological point of view, quite ironic too.
Yes, it's the most insightful moment in Doctor Who, new and old.
It's the central line of the story, for me. Hindle knows he's broken; His rigid upbringing (complete with corporal punishment) has left him totally unprepared for a world that doesn't follow the rules he was taught. He grew up in a "box" of unrealistic rules and expectations, and he literally can't think outside of it... Or see any way to cope except by destroying everything he fears, or destroying himself....Until something, or someone, can finally persuade him to "open the box", and embrace the reality outside.
It takes the Doctor to show the Kinda how to save themselves from the insidious evil of the Mara; But it's the Kinda who save Hindle from the psychological damage of his upbringing.
...You CAN ...IF you are a DOCTOR. hahaha
So to Sum Up - Nyssa: Great Two-Day Nap; Tegan: HORRIBLE Two-Day Nap
That's the difference adulthood makes. Big pink snakes always ruin things.
@@frankshailes3205 😂
Believe it or not, a young Jonny Lee Miller (Sherlock Holmes in Elementary) is one of the Kinda children in this!
Yeah, even people with a snake phobia would probably struggle to be actually scared of the adorable inflatable Mara in the climax
its just so cuuute :D
the fact this is your last reaction before the new dw episode is fitting
They remastered the "snake" makes the ending resolution so much better.
Yeah, I was actually surprised at how well done the CG was, considering how dodgy it often looks in some of the other remastered stories.
I disagree I think the puppet snake is much scarier the CGI snake looks like an animated cartoon and it does not work in Classic Who.
@@joshuajoshua2732 I've talked about this story with quite a few Classic Who fans, and most of them agree that the papier-mache snake at the end completely ruins an otherwise great story. There's just no way I can take that thing seriously as a threat.
@@AtariDad Yeah, Sesska’s reaction to the snake completely changes when she sees it full size. Her reaction would have been different with the CGI snake I think 🤔 🐍
Professor Todd would have been a great Liz Shaw-like companion
I'd rather Richard Todd.
This is definitely one of the best classic stories. Davison has a lot of great stories but his Doctor and era are quite underrated for having quite a lot of great stories, can't wait for you to experience more of him!
Simon Rouse did some brilliant acting as HIndle in this.
There's a version of this story available with updated visual effects, including a very realistic CGI snake at the end. I'm sure you'll be eager to check this out. 😂. One of the children in the Kinda tribe is a very young Jonny Lee Miller (Elementary).
The rejuvenation of Panna/Karuna has interesting parallels in the two "mad" men, Sanders and Hindle, who have both also regressed to childhood (mentally, not physically) but each for different reasons.
I bloody love KINDA.
IMO it's the best story of this season and probably the best Fifth Doctor adventure.
The ending of Episode Three sends chills every time I see it.
The concept of good being stalked by evil is a story as old as time, and the fact it's seen as repetitive cycle makes it rather doom-laden. The casting in this story is brilliant - Mary Morris as Panna (the Old Woman), Simon Rouse (Hindle - slowly having a breakdown), Nerys Hughes is a beautiful foil to the Doctor as Doctor Todd (who knew we ever needed an extra companion when the TARDIS was already so darn crowded?).
It's a very oddball story.
For once, Adric going over to the enemy side had a useful story function.
Be glad you chose the version with the obvious prop. Because you can choose one where they’ve CGI’ed a realistic snake into the scenes. 😂
Yep, that’s pretty much the thumbnail I was expecting. Thank goodness you didn’t watch the version with the CGI effects.
I quite like the idea of the giant Mara snake looking ridiculous. Fear can be.
@@Concreteowl Yes, the whole idea of the Mara is that it is never physically real. Making it look too photo-realistically real is massively missing the point.
"[Horror] is not a genre that is super highly regarded" - Fully agree. But it's also a genre that I get the impression children appreciate more than adults. There are adult horror fans, absolutely, but horror is a fairly niche genre in adult media... While it more often gets mainstream appreciation when aimed specifically at children, within the child audience it's aimed at.
Since you enjoy the vibes of Classic Who, and clearly have an appreciation of horror (and outfits), I think you'd enjoy Sapphire and Steel. Sapphire has gorgeous outfits in most if not all of the stories, it's very much Classic Who vibes, and... It's ghost stories made for the then modern turn of 80s so dips into horror with a decent frequency. There are also only six serials across 34 half-hour episodes so it's a relatively fast watch.
Kinda is a fantastic story, and the snake only becoming... Very pink and very large... at the end of the story definitely helps it.
seconding Sapphire & Steel, I really think it'd be up your alley, especially if you enjoy the weird "our special effects budget is £2 so we have to make our horror all abstract and lean on the acting to carry it" vibe of classic Who
@@ecyor0 And 1981 (when Kinda was made) was prime Sapphire and Steel time! So it's about the right time to compare and contrast the two shows - BBC and ITV were rival channels and these were their two leading telefantasy efforts at the time.
It's a good job you watched the original version. The special edition DVD release includes optional updated effects, including a much more realistic CGI snake at the end.
Which rather misses the point of what the Mara is...
@@frankshailes3205 how so?
It is good that the giant snake was so puppet-like. Took the edge off for you I think.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned it yet (unless I missed it), but many of the characters names represent concepts in Buddhism. The people in Tegan's dream are Annica (impermanence), Anatta (illusion of self), and Dukkha (pain/suffering/dissatisfaction); together, they are the "three marks of existence." Karuna (the girl) is compassion. Panna (the old woman) is wisdom/intelligence/understanding/insight.
When Tegan told The Doctor about when she climbed a tree and dropped an apple on Aris' head, I was surprised that did not reference the anecdote of The Doctor doing that to Issac Newton ("The Pirate Planet"). Something that no one has mentioned (yet) is the two wonderful actors in this story - Richard Todd ( "The Hasty Heart", "The Virgin Queen", "The Longest Day", etc.), and Mary Morris ("Macbeth", "A is for Andromeda", "Anna Karenina", "The Prisoner", etc.). Morris first appeared on stage at the age of 10 (!), Long before Doctor Who. Todd was Ian Fleming's outright choice to play James Bond in "Doctor No".
Hindle's breakdown interested me back in 82. My dad had had one - and another was about to happen!
Impeccable timing with this one.
The Mara quickly establishes itself as a supernatural force on the scale of previous boss horrors like Azal or the Fendahl, but the snake motif is very useful. It embodies a kind of terror that dates back to prehistoric times - although the realisation of our giant pink python *ahem* is rather more terrifying in updated versions. As for the rest of the story, there's nothing more confusing for Brits of my generation than seeing Adrian Mills (Aris) as the temporary embodiment of evil. In my youth, he was a presenter on the BBC's whimsical consumer affairs programme 'That's Life!', which included many hard-hitting pieces; such as a report on a dog that could say 'Sausages!' - It's as ridiculous as it sounds.
Such a great story, Davison very much hit his stride here. True, the Mara's s giant snake form is up there with the Taran Wood Beast and the Giant Rat of Weng-Chiang, but in your case it was actually a good thing. The slithering tattoo was super creepy, though! By the way, to this day some Doctor Who fans refer to non-fans as the "Not We."
The themes and overall execution of this story are just the best.
I desperately want the Mara to return in the modern show.
Well - The Mara just got a big shout out in NuWho! :) Who knows whether that's setting it up for a return or not... but hey, good to be remembered.
I honestly prefer the original snake here to the CGI "remaster" version. Sure, it doesn't look _realistic,_ but it looks pretty good imo. I'll take an unconvincing but creative prop over "realistic" CGI any day.
In Germanic and Slavic folklore, a "mara" (sometimes spelled "mare"; source of the term "nightmare"), is a sort of demon or goblin which sits on a sleeping person's chest, causing bad dreams. In Buddhism, Mara is an antagonistic celestial being who opposes enlightenment. And there are several gods of death, or of death and rebirth, named Mara (or similar) across various Indo-European cultures.
I'm glad someone mentioned this. (It also deepens one's understanding of the NOES movies.)
I love how CRAZY the crazy people are in this story! It adds to the tension, because, what can you do? The Mara are related, but a separate threat! People have trashed the whole story because of the snake at the end, but that ignores so much good!! One of the best Fifth Doctor stories!!
(1) Kinda is both Robert Shearman (the guy who wrote the ninth Doctor story, Dalek) and former Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat's favourite classic Who story (well, alongside The Ark in Space for Moffat, a fourth Doctor you weren't especially fond of). I really like it too, as does most of the rest of the fandom. It's considered a classic and one of the fifth Doctor's very best stories. It's a fascinating story on anti-colonialism, both in how it shows the negative effect it has on the native lifeforms and how it affects the people on the actual expedition itself due to the pressures and demands of the job and their dogmatic adherence to rules and regulations. Simon Rouses' performance as Hindle is widely acclaimed as one of the best portrayals of mental illness in the history of Doctor Who and his mental degradation due to implied childhood abuse and the toxic masculinity of Sanders is terribly realistic and uncomfortable to watch as a result. I also love the setting and how it draws comparisons with paradise and the story of the Garden of Eden. Mara is the representation of the devil in this scenario and is described as coming from the "dark places of the inside". So, basically it uses dark emotions that reside within us all, like hate, jealousy and revenge, to tempt those weak enough to give into it and gain corporeal form in our world to cause havoc and destruction. Because that's what it revels in, it's quite literally supposed to be a manifestation of the devil.
The fact that Tegan succumbs to the Mara's influence says very interesting things about her and they're not particularly positive. So far Tegan's anger and paranoia over being unable to get back to Heathrow airport (she works there as a flight attendant) have been a big part of her character and we've seen how that's lead to her making some rash decisions. The Mara sensed this unrest within her and used it to gain control. The three figures in her dream represent her distrust of Nyssa, Adric and the Doctor. We saw Adric and Nyssa playing draughts at the start of the story and later in episode 1 they're represented by the two old people playing the same game within Tegan's dreams. Then, there's Dukkha, who's name sounds like a weird distortion of Doctor, and he taunts and plays games with Tegan, which shows her state of mind regarding him and how she has no idea what to think of him and whether he'll ever get her back home. It's an incredibly interesting commentary on Tegan as a character and a brilliantly creative way to go about doing it. I also think the dream sequences were very well done and really unsettling. I love how the dream sequences are in B&W too because it effectively gets across that Tegan is in a place unlike anything she's ever experienced, and I like how it instills fear and makes the viewers uncomfortable because of the differences between the light and dark parts of the set due to the harsh lighting. The production choices they made also makes the bizarre makeup of the three figures in the dream standout a lot more too.
I suppose thinking about it, Tegan is a bit unique in that she hadn't chosen to travel with the Doctor at this point so understandably does harbour resentment at being taken away from her life and the Doctor not being able to return her.
The Mara dream sequence reminds me of the David Bowie video for Ashes To Ashes
I hadn't picked up on the figures in Tegan's dream representing Lyssa, Adric, and the Doctor, but I see it now. I love how after 40-ish years there are still more layers to this story I hadn't previously discovered.
Kinda's other contribution to the fan-lore is the term 'Not-We' (to describe anyone not of the Kinda), which got hijacked and turned into a descriptor for non-fans. Although, knowing what this fandom is like, it probably anyone who doesn't like the same thing...
Long-time viewer, and I've been waiting for this one pretty much since Classic Who reactions started, especially after Jess's reaction to the stop-motion Medusa in The Mind Robber. Not because I want to see Jess terrified, but because the Mara prop is infamously terrible so I thought it would be deeply funny to see if her phobia would be triggered by such an obviously hokey fake giant snake and therefore make her the only person in the history of Who to actually be scared by it. Expectations met, glad she went with the original rather than the actually reasonable updated effects.
We've seen the same overlapping reincarnation thing that happens with Panna and Karuna before, remember. With K'Anpo and Cho-Je in Pertwee's final story "Planet of the Spiders" (which is equally full of Buddhism). The same consciousness in two different bodies. The Doctor has done it too occasionally; The Watcher in Logopolis, and of course in multi-Doctor stories like The Three Doctors when he communes with his own mind in different incarnations ("contact!")...
Oooo, very perceptive.
24:50 Yeah, another youtube channel covered this with an arachnophobe discussing giant spiders in video games and how actually, the more monstrous and weird the spider monster gets, the less it triggers the phobia because at the end of the day, phobias are triggered by very specific stimuli, it's not "the general concept of a spider scares me" it's "the image of a spider fires a specific set of neurons and causes an uncontrollable panic response". Similar situation I'd imagine, giant snake puppet is less stressful than realistic snake-sized rubber snake.
This story was intended as a possible Tom Baker story, and having well known actor Richard Todd in it as Sanders is awesome. I hope Seska you can if you have not get to see, and react to classic sci-fi series Blake,s Seven which started late 70s to early 80s it is well awesome in billions of ways if you have not yet seen Blake,s Seven it was created by Terry Nation who created the Drs arch-enemies the dreaded Daleks for classic Dr Who.
It's still hard not to see the parallel between this story and Brtish colonial rule in India. Science (particularly climate science) seems to be challenging our ideas about technological sophistication being superior to cultural sophistication - as if the two went hand in hand. I'm reminded of the question put to Gandhi: 'What do you think of western civilization?' - to which he famously replied: 'I think it would be a good idea'.
Lee Cornes who played 'Trickster' would later play 'Paranoia' in Red Dwarf
I thought he looked familiar
Atleast your through the worst of it with snakes.
The giant snake might look fake now but i assure as a 7 year old watching this at the time it was quite terrorfying i'm glad you watched the original version as it was broadcast in 1982 i think the CGI version would had scared you too much.
Nyssa could have been travelling instead of being sick to excuse her absence in this story.
I had a feeling that the giant snake wouldn't really scare you and I'm glad it turned out that way 😊
also really happy that you're enjoying the 5th doctor, it's such a fun era of the show 😁
Well, the Mara is an evil that takes the form of an imaginary snake. So, we know that the special effects really wanted the snake to be realistic looking and scary, but since it is a "snake of our imaginary fears" it doesn't have to look realistic. At least, that's what I say, if I want a reason it looked like that beyond "can't do that on a five quid budget".
I feel that a fear of something that actually has the ability to kill you, then its not irrational
Phobia means an irrational fear anyway, so you can't have an "irrational phobia". However, a picture of a snake can not hurt you.
Hi! Just discovered your channel recently (last week) and am enjoying watching your reactions. I'd laugh about your snake phobia, but I remember my own phobia of flies. It has kept me from even watching certain stories, like Planet Of The Dead. At least you've conquered your fears better than me. There are some really good stories coming up, and look forward to seeing what you think of them.
Simon Rouse is incredible as Hindle - one of the great Who performances
There's actually a remastered version of "Kinda" with a much more realistic snake. Believe me you don't want to watch that. I'm like you when it comes to snakes and it totally freaked me out to such an extent that I was physically ill.
Funny Adrics general awfulness as a person didn’t get mentioned! I’d forgotten what a prig he is in this episode
Not just in this episode, let's be honest...
@@chrispalmer7893 yeah... I always want to like him, but he sometimes makes it very hard.
light spoilers below:
Oddly I have no issue with say for instance Turlough even though hes often equally "off"- maybe because hes not a teen I suppose? I cant really self evaluate on that tbh Id hope im not that superficial but hell if I know lol. It really may just be the Wesley Crusher effect
Adric is a terrible character, and awfully acted - especially in this story.
That scene where he was berating Tegan was I believe added later as the episode was under running
@@Daelyas To be fair to Wil Wheaton, the problem is more that people were really bad at writing teenagers back then. So it's not that he's a teenage, it's that he's a badly written teenager. Waterhouse suffers from that to some extent too, but by all acounts he appears to be as obnoxious in real life as Adric was on screen. (This might be me being superficial, but a self-pubished autobiography written in the third person...?)
About the two snake reactions that had you super scared; were they Vikings and Supernatural?
I'm glad you enjoyed this story too. It's a good one. One thing I like about this story is the way that Todd slips into the companion role with the Doctor. She even solves the problem with Hindle going crazy. And this is another episode where Adric does something that makes me like him less. There is one thing I wish was different though; I wish Tegan was the one possessed the whole time rather than the Mara passing to Aris, because Janet Fielding's performance while possessed was fantastic. Tegan didn't appear in episode 3, so I wonder if she had the week off.
Ssssssssssuperb episodes and reaction, loving watching these classic episodes again.
The next three serials are solid classics, the following two are turkeys then there’s a fair number of classics following those in turn.
Sneaky sneaky snaaaake :D I love that puppet so much!!! And this story is right up my alley - always love the odd ones!
So excited for the reaction Kinda is a great story with psychological and metaphysical tones that work together brilliantly.
But the giant snake is rather silly. The cg alternative is more impressive
Great reaction as always to one of the best 5th Doctor stories. Unfortunately, there are a few spoiler comments here. I wish people would stick to comments on this story rather than future stories.
"Well, I made it through the snake story..."
Me: *Evil Laughter*
Martin Clunes says "what"? ;P
@@Daelyas Shhhh. Spoilers!
Someone always has to spoil things.
Oh the Snake reaction was perfect! The way your reaction evolved as it proved was great. Didn't disappoint 😁 Glad it's ok for us to enjoy your misery 😜
So what you're saying is classic Who's janky effects are helping desensitize your snake phobia. Another reason to love this silly old show. 😂
the first person ever to be afraid of this snake
Great reaction Jess. I loved you watching this. Good fun.😁
Glad you watched the original effects version and not the updated effects version with the updated cgi snake. You’re not out of the woods yet though, this story has a sequel.
Mara is a real name which comes from the bible, I thought it was a made up name but there is an actress called Mara Wilson.
The Mara (& the 'real-life' mythological creature that it was based on) kind of gave me an idea for a powerful, almost god-like MLP arch-villain character called Mara Dreamdancer, who's half Unicorn Pony, half Nightmare Demon. She was once an ordinary and cute Unicorn Princess, but when she was corrupted, she became the evil and terrifying Queen of Nightmares. (Also, her one great weakness is, like an arachnophobe who is terrified of spiders... she has an ironic & irrational fear of... candy & sweets...)
Thank you so much for your reaction!
Spoiler comment. You should delete this as she hates any spoilers.
A great, cerebral, clever story. The snake is a little naff, but doesn’t detract from it at all.
Todd is fantastic. Would’ve been a really good companion.
The cast are terrific. The portrayals of breakdowns and possession are superbly done. The writing is too notch, and the conclusion is satisfying. I too would find paradise ‘a little too green’
Probably in my top 5 Fifth Doctor stories
Jess you are a Brave soul. Of course you don’t like Snakes i understand. but you got through it and you were ok. Well done! Can I say your wimpier was abit adorable. But The mara snake it’s self isn’t a great effect but on blu ray collection they updated it and the new Effects look great (but of course you wouldn’t like it). Also I discovered the actor playing the Jester, he’s from where I live.
I'm glad she didn't watch the updated version... "Snakedance" is still worse though... even WITH the original fx, so I'm still a little worried about her reaction to that one...
Brilliant story, sorry about the Snake, Jess!😥
Ah, Kinda, the first great story of the Peter Davison era.
The blu-ray set for Davison's first season features updated special effects that fixes the snake. It looks a lot better.
“Asps! Very dangerous! You go first!”
Was looking forward to see how you react to the giant snake but 😂
I have to wonder how far Sesska would get watching Stargate SG1
Glad there's no more snake stories ahead.
Yeah, i guarantee it you watched the updated version you'd have been terrified of the snake
YOU CAN'T MEND PEOPLE!!!
Great story!
This story has an equally good sequel
I always think adric works better with tom baker
Yes, very much so.
'The' snake story? That would imply there was only one!
Nooooooooooo!!! You Were Meant To Watch With The CGI Realistic Snake!! Not The Shitty Inflatable One!! I Was So Looking Forward To Your Action!!
You should watch the movie, Terminator Genesis. Your boy is in it (he's a baddie lol)
I hope u can see ep 4 with new cgi snake available on blu ray nd dvd
The snake looks far better on the DVD replaced with CGI
The whole story has an odd artificiality that works well: the white studio floor is visible many times, and plastic windchimes in a fake forest, foam plastic caves.
All of it parallels things like the guardian battlesuit being mocked with a shape of a box made with twigs.
- not to mention all the other boxes acting as both story devices ( the TARDIS for example ), as well as symbols for closed minds.
Do you think we should tell her???
Nah, she'll know from the title
About what?
@@flaggerify You'll find out!
@@djashley2002 Whatever.
No spoilers please
Think you need to react to the special fx version of the story.
Can’t wait for your reaction to the newest doctor who episode. Actually felt like doctor who for once! And people have been saying that throughout this series but I honestly think THIS is the one that actually feels like old who
There's one more snake story later with the 5th Doctor; Snakedance, just so you know
If you feel brave enough, the BBC channel has an official comparison between the Mara in this episode and the CGI special edition DVD one: ruclips.net/video/bSExEevtc6g/видео.html
Imagine if she watched the updated CGI version
11…
(2) Once Tegan gives in and the Mara gains access to our world, it realises she's weak and has no influence on this planet to wreak the required level of destruction, so seeks another body to takeover and that's where Aris comes in. He'd been established as being distraught over his brother being taken as prisoner by the colonists and the Mara uses his anger and desire for revenge to take control of not just him, but the rest of the Kinda too, who blindly follow him because they believe Aris being able to speak as a male Kinda (only female Kindas have the gift of voice) is a miracle and part of some prophecy of a man with the gift of voice coming among them that will lead them to salvation and so must be obeyed. This is exactly what the Mara wants and it plots to lead the Kinda on a fruitless attack on the dome, which will result in the destruction of both the colonists and the Kinda, two civilisations will fall. The maximum level of death and destruction will have been achieved and the Mara will return to its domain and wait for the next civilisation to arise. The wheel of time will keep turning, as it has always done. Civilisations will fall and out of their ashes new ones will rise, and the Mara feasts on all this pain and suffering and it causes the wheel to turn and time to move forward, which ties back to this story being set on a planet that is very much like the garden of Eden. The story of the Mara is basically a retelling of the most famous origin myth. The apples and snake imagery are very clear allusions to this.
The colonist's decision to leave this planet and deem it unsuitable for colonisation also seems to be a rejection of paradise as a concept. The planet, which was very intentionally call Deva Loka (a place that is the dwellings of Gods in both Hinduism and Buddhism) was referred to as perfect and like a paradise several times in the story, but the Mara proved that all was not what it seemed. The temptation of a planet like this and the illusion of perfect harmony it has is just so the evil that lurks beneath can hide and cower away, waiting to strike. Again, this entire story is a rejection of paradise as a concept, it's a fallacy. Such a place can't exist because perfection is unattainable and impossible and to seek such things will only lead to your destruction. The Doctor saying paradise is a little too green for him at the end is a great way to succinctly get that point across and a perfect line to end the story. The way this all ties in with the anti-colonial message is brilliant because the Kinda are portrayed as the only beings that can survive on a planet like this because they're the only ones that truly understand it and all the dangers it brings, while the human colonists naively dream of it as a paradise and dismiss the Kinda as mindless savages. In the end, all the humans have to retreat back to their own planet and leave Deva Loka to the Kinda because they're the only ones enlightened enough to actually live in it. I mean, the only reason Hindle was healed in the end was because of the Kinda's Jhana box, which proves how advanced in many ways the Kinda are compared to humans. This is all very interesting and I find Kinda to be a very enjoyable and intellectually stimulating story to watch. This story gives no easy answers and really forces you to think and it's all the better for it.
Wait until you watch the 2 nd Harry Potter movie.
E
at least the snake looks more fake the bigger it gets lol
"I don't like it, but I'm ok." Literally me when I watched this episode.
So VERY MILD SPOILERS for the series 14 finale...
...but how appropriate is it that this gets posted today and the episode features a very small Mara reference?
The Snake is better in the one with MC🎩
We were robbed by whoever did not give you the special edition lmao.
i prefer the original to be honest, the CG looks out of place on the special edition. would have been scarier for sesska though for sure, lmao
Think she should experience these for the first time just as we did.
@@Paul_1971 Well that just not as fun in this case. I need trauma.
The couple of scenes of Tegan and Adric improvising time-wasting dialogue because the episode came in under-time is the only really weak part of this story.
Kinda has a sequel in the next season with the Mara's return in Snakedance
Spoilers sweetie!
Adric is a deeply dislikeable character. That's how I felt all those years ago whe I first saw him. Now, I feel he's a deeply dislikeable character.
Very colorful outfit for the show too. lol. Love your channel. I did a review for the boys tv show. Doctor who worth watching btw?
Are you asking if Doctor Who is worth watching while you're watching someone do a reaction video to it(btw an episode from the shows 19th season)? If you've gotten this far, I think it's time for you to step down the rabbit hole that is Doctor Who. It has no end, but you'll be glad you did. There are many opinions as to where you should start watching the show but I always say watch the very first episode and then swing a cat. The very first episode was broadcast November 23rd 1963 and it was called "An Unearthly Child".
@@mikalmos369all his comments are purely to advertise that he also does videos lol