Who is the GREATEST cricket coach of all time? | Athers, Nasser, Bumble & Rob Key | Lockdown Vodcast
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
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Michael Atherton, Nasser Hussain and Bumble join Rob Key to discuss the art of cricket coaching. Why were Duncan Fletcher and Trevor Bayliss successful for England as head coaches? What makes a great coach? And could a successful coach in another sport achieve equal success in cricket?
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I'm loving this coverage, I'm a Scotsman, Glasgow, however, Cricket is one of my very favourite sports, passed on to me by my friends Dad who used to listen to 5 live 25 years ago in his garden shed.
Considering the weather up there don’t you lot get about three viable days of cricket before the pitch is fucked again for the rest of the year?
@@elliot7753 So about 3 more than Yorkshire, 200miles away 😅
Over the years, with practice and hard work Nasser Hussain developed the ultimate technique in winding up Robert Key. I reckon Key should put a helmet on.
I'm gonna miss nassar's bookcase when this is all over
These guy are better football pundits than 90% of the Actual ones
Petition for Atherton to have anti-reflection glasses! (since the petition for better internet connection seems to have worked)
Ever heard of Bob Simpson. Crucial in Australia's rise from the bottom in the mid 80s to the top from 89 onwards.
The beginning of a new era of fitness and expert fielding.
Bob Simpson. The beginning of the fitness and expert fielding era.
Bobby Simpson...took an underperforming team in late 1980's....changed the structure of team...changed attitude and approach of team...took fielding to a new level which is now world standard..made Australia into a truly competitive machine that dominated world cricket for 20 years
Bob Simpson was one of the first national coaches; therefore he had to do all that he did without having 20 years of predecessors successes and failure to draw upon. Massively under rated for what he achieved.
Bob Simpson. The beginning of the fitness and expert fielding era.
@@60-second-HACKS Good call.
Good call!
Spot on
Atherton most underrated England bat ever. Used to open with his Dad when I was 15 and he was probably 65.
AA Busby babe also I think. Goalkeeper.
Athers has paid his bills.
I love listening to athers. He always has a structured way of speaking with right blend of words
He went to Oxford.
Haseeb Ahmed no he didn’t
If Athers told me the world was flat, I reckon I'd pretty much just accept it.
Gary Kirsten
These guys talk more sense about football than the guys over at ESPN FC.
They talk more sense about football than the majority of footballers.
@@heliumtrophy qq
Very true. Even though that’s not too hard!! Some of the stuff Burley comes out with, you wonder if he watched the same game.
I hope all Indians and even the people of entire sub continent are watching thsi and contemplating why we love these conversations so much as compared to conversations back in our countries. Well if you dont know the answer let me give you mine? It is perks of being in a society with almost absolute freedom of the speech (FOS) or relatively much better. Also, you can have these converstions when we are less emotional and jingoistic. More and more practical, secure and confident. Before the recent jingoism in india after 2014, I thought we were almost there, but now we have slipped right back along with our neighbours as a society (slightly ahead but not by much). We can have this sort of public discourse when we are less emotional and patriotic ansd more practical and secure. of course it takes time in the normal course of development of nations, but if we are aware of this fact maybe we will reach there sooner than later.
Its incredible how someone starts rhetoric of politics in a cricket conversation. Amazing, just the things that left liberals all over the world are amazing at. Stuff politics in every conversation where it isnt even needed.
@@RITHIKRAI its actually. Left liberals who bring politics on very thing and blame others simply. Waste fellows
Yet another woke liberal, whose statements show that u want to portray a rising superpower like India as an immature, intolerant, nation of fools. We are proudly nationalist, and don't care abt u. And since u like to complain, what about kashmiri Pandits who were driven out? Any comments??
@@RITHIKRAI agree!! They hate India and like to portray us as intolerant. And hate our culture, bash Brahmins, don't stand up for flag, not supporting govt during covid etc. True anti nationals.
@@RITHIKRAI And this is the nation that had scientific knowledge before Einstein and Newton. Don't forget that advanced missiles was mentioned in Mahabharata. And plastic surgery dates back to 3000 bc. And we invented mathematics. So we are proud to be part of the greatest nation ever and will be so future Tak. Jai Hind!!!!!!!!!
My Respect for Atherton grows evert time he opens his mouth .. for him to be aware of Wodden (UCLA Basketball COACH) and Lombardi (Greenbay Packers NFL COACH) who are both instrumental in both sports in 50-60 years ago .. shows his broad knowledge.. Definitely would love to have sit down with him and talk sport
I think Bob Woolmer is at least one of the greatest, As part of the South African setup during the 90's they were unlucky to not win the world cup in 99. By far South Africa's best side to ever play with one of the best captains of all time (match fixing allegations aside)
I hasten to add Warwickshire...
If it wasn't for the great Australian team of the 90's SA would have been the best team in the world.
Did fantastic work with Pakistan also
South Africa was the best side in the 1999 world cup. A small mistake of Klusner or Donald did cost them the world domination. The match between South Africa and Pakistan in that tournament was one of the best matches I have seen in my life. The way Kallis and Rhodes built the match was just brilliant.
I don't know if Nas knows everything about football, but he is certainly spot on about Arsenal.
Could listen to these guys talk cricket all day.
A lovely discussion indeed, covering a wide range of sports and the coaching criteria for each type. I'm all for the 'hum' of the spectators/crowd, as without it, cricket, football etc sounds 'hollow'! Professional sport, which is more of a spectacle sport nowadays deserves a big crowd when performing on the International sporting stage! Empty stadiums divest any sport off its professionalism! Athers Nas, the host, and David, thank you for all the rich analytical observations and knowledge you bring via Sky Sports. Stay blessed.
Bob Woolmar was a brilliant coach. Miss the big guy.
Brian Clough was a marvelous football manager who guided Derby County to the Division 1 and Nottingham Forest to Division 1 and two European Cups in a row in 79 and 80. He assembled players with underutilised abilities that could form a successful collective. I think those traits could have made him a great cricket coach/manager. Although the selectors system of picking teams would have driven him mad.
Clough was the first that came to my mind too - but these 4 chaps are from Lancashire and London (Kent & Essex)
John Wright and Gary Kirsten both brilliant coaches for Indian cricket team. Two world class left handed opening batsmen who put high prices on their wickets. Brought toughness and discipline to India as a touring team while being very astute man managers.
What about Greg chapple mate
bob simpson let aus along with border from almost last in the mid 80's to a world cup in 87 then the ashes in 1989 and once he retired in early 96 aus was number 1 easily especially after they knocked off the windies in the west indies in 95 and aus remained strong until 09 and it was thanks to him..while buchanan came in and had an 80% winning record with a superteam
Bob Simpson. The beginning of the fitness and expert fielding era.
How is the plan coming, Dutch?
This was a fascinating discussion, and I wanted to pick up a few points. The first is that I think there is a more fundamental difference between football and cricket managers than is perhaps generally acknowledged. For every second in a football match you are working as part of a unit of eleven, and your role is narrow and very well-defined. A good football manager has assessed your strengths and will play you in a specific area of the pitch and with quite specific instructions (mark this man, feed long passes to the left centre forward etc). In a good football side, you and the other ten players work in perfect synchronization, almost like a clock.
The football manager's job is to find the best available (and affordable) players and then have the vision and insight to see how best to use each individual in order to create this perfectly synchronized unit. Mention is made of Alex Ferguson building three or four great teams at Man U, and it was this huge talent he had, for putting together highly successful football squads.
Although Ferguson is one of the greatest post-war coaches, I actually think Brian Clough combined with Peter Taylor were even more intuitive at doing this, to the point of near genius. While Ferguson would still allow room for football players to grow and develop - hence his passion for scouting young players and building youth squads, Clough and Taylor were much more about finding fully-fledged players, and spotting some way in which they could fit into their perfect football team. While Ferguson would still coach and train his players, there was much less under Clough and Taylor, who simply wanted their chess-team of a side to each do whatever they could already do, so long as they did it in the correct place on the pitch.
With cricket, the individual players have much more freedom. Aside from when you are taking a run, or chasing the ball in the field, you are otherwise working on your own at each moment in the game, and there is less need to synchronize your performance with the ten other players. As a batsman or bowler, you also need a good deal of personal initiative - you can be given some theory and advice, but out in the middle you are constantly dealing with issues where you have to think on your feet.
And this is where the cricket coaches' role is ambiguous, because it is much harder to organise and move your team around like chess-pieces. You don't generally stand on the touch-line shouting instructions - the onfield captain has to look after that side of things.
When it comes to cricket management, Michael Atherton made that important point about distinguishing "coaches" and "managers", and I would say you could also make a distinction among the coaches themselves. Duncan Fletcher was evidently an excellent technical coach - so many batsmen chosen for England between 2000 and 2006 seemed to improve once on the international stage, reversing a pattern of the previous twenty years. He also improved attitudes towards discipline and fitness. Whereas I think Andy Flower, England's other great past manager, was an excellent tactical coach. His style probably came closer to that of a football manager. A man very much able to think for himself, he would use his payers intelligently, see possibilities and had that little bit of unorthodox genius. Although Fletcher was less strong at man-management (he tended to be excellent with the players he rated, but less good at younger, less inexperienced team members) Flower was weaker still, and in the end it was a certain lack of empathy towards his players which left many of them physically and mentally shattered towards the end of his tenure, and which led to the shock Ashes drubbing of 2013-14 and the quick disintegration of a great side.
So although Fletcher and Flower were great cricket coaches, neither were quite great managers. The best cricket man-managers of the past twenty years probably include the likes of John Wright, Gary Kirsten, Trevor Baylis and Darren Lehmann, the kind of men who had an instinctive understanding of the psychology of playing top level cricket, and who were good at both motivating players while also removing a lot of the mental stress.
And I tend to think that the man-manager types are more successful in charge of cricket teams - it is actually what cricket teams need, a kind of facilitator, an enabler, a wise encouraging voice. Most cricketers are top level are not in constant need of intensive technical coaching sessions. Hence there have also been a lot of relatively poor 'technical' manager/coaches of cricket teams - the likes of Peter Moores or Mickey Arthur - the kind of men who are desperate to impose themselves and justify their positions, and who have their teams expend too much energy off the field rather than on it. Or there is a coach like Greg Chappell, whose well-intentioned ambition to shake up some of the complacent attitudes among his team of Indian superstars in the mid 2000s was always doomed to failure. I'm a big fan of Justin Langer, and I guess over time we will be able to make a better judgement about his own performance as Australian coach (as opposed to the generally good performance of his admittedly talented side between 2018 and early 2022). Langer has written a couple of books and has a lot of interesting left-field theories about the game and its psychology, but perhaps his naturally intense style was again not always best suited to the tenser periods.
I think the ideal coach must firstly be the fairly relaxed Trevor Baylis type. But if he possesses a little erudition, and can wear that erudition lightly, then better still. I wonder if anyone has ever truly managed this - I wonder if Gary Kirsten has. India were still a generally unfancied side when he led them to a world cup and number one in the world in 2011. And as soon as Kirsten departed, India immediately fell apart for a year or two, as if they had all collectively been batting above their averages. And in England we turned this man down in favour of another who was handy at Powerpoint!
John Wright
Bob Woolmer was an excellent coach. Miss him!!! 😟😟
Always love bumble talking...!All time favorite commentator 2nd only to Tony Greig...!
Bobby Simpson deserves a mention here. He turned Australia around.
Bob Simpson. The beginning of the fitness and expert fielding era.
Some didn't like him like Shane Warne. But Warne was so good he was never out of the Team. Bob liked discipline.🏏🇦🇺
Hope Steve Harmison manages Geordies sometime soon.
Dave Watmore , Tom Moody , and Trevor Bayliss . Three Aussies have been brilliant for srilanka.
Atherton is a United fan & I am loving every bit of it.
Lalchand Rajput did very good work with associate nations.
Mike Atherton is my best commentator :)
Mark Nicholas ❤
Bumble
Nasser
Tony Greig, Bill Lawry and Richie Benaud for me.
David Lloyd
Gary Stead from NZ,must be looked at as one of the greatest coaches bringing a small country with only a small number of players and bringing them to win the test championship,finals od odi and t20.
Great show.
What was channel was bumble commentating on during WC 2019?? I missed him
Bob Woolmer has to be the greatest cricket coach of all time, the work he did with the associate nations and Pakistan was brilliant.
In addition to his role coaching SA and Warwickshire
100% has to be Bob Woolmer.
I agree Bob Woolmer, what he did for Pakistani cricket is so underrated
Rob Key is such a legend
Rahul Dravid is the best coach. He is producing world class batsmen and fast bowlers for India by his brilliant coaching at U19 and India A level
LoL 😂😂. Has he done it at Senior level. Then talk! He was a failures as captain. Remember wc 2007?? Junior cricket..who cares?? Then in that case the coach of 2008 and 2000 should be legend
Yes😍
Justin Langer is not that bad tbh... Watched The Test, an Amazon Original and JL did a pretty fine job considering the circumstances...New team, new captain, new coach post Sandpapergate!!
I don't think so,either.
He is a quality man. Has been since he was the new kid. He spoke at a meeting of the Cricket Society at the MCG one night in the early 90s. He was already inspiring.
Which Test Documentary are they referring to? Can anyone please share the link?
The test watch at amazon
Amazing Australia cricket team journey from sandpaper gate to ashes
Atherton's and Hussains barmy army Thank's for the memories fellas.
Yes, absolutely, in my view coaching is all about 'improving' and advising to upgrade skills in , batting, bowling and fielding etc. Yet, with a young team the captain will have to be an extension of the coach on the field as well to a certain limit. He can't be himself, nor express himself due to his limitations of experience. However, maturity and experience changes the scenario altogether!
I thought this would be a boring one because coaches in cricket aren't as important... it was actually fascinating. Glad the players mentioned old "JL" and this nonsense "baggy-green"... his cheesy, one line quotes would've got on my nerves too! Australia regained the Ashes due to Steve Smith coming back in & getting runs for that brilliant fast bowling quartet to defend!
Mahela Jayawardane for Mumbai Indians
IPL doesn't count
Ian Chappell was both Captain, Coach and Manager of Australian cricket from 1971 through to the Packer team in the late 70s. Ian Chappell was the number one leader of a cricket team. Douglas Jardine was England captain to Australia in 1932/33, and again he was the main man who influenced everything. Jardine had that “magic power” that Rob Key mentions.
Its a shame one of the best general managers in the last 10 years and one of the teams originally sponsored by Sky was not mentioned. Sir Dave Brailsford has been a manager of 7 Tour de France wins with 4 different riders and 10 Grand Tour victories in 10 years.
Cricket coaches they’re talking about.
They should leave the sound out and just have the sound of the bat and ball please. So you can hear how well the batsman are hitting it.
Indian channel star sports has added crowd sound in premier league
John Buchanan the best in terms of stats and achievements with Australia
Gary Kirsten is the best people manager and the players love him
Bob Woolmer was cut short but would arguably have been one of the best, achieved a lot at Warwickshire and SA
Players coaches - Graham Ford, Duncan Fletcher, Ray Jemmings. A lot of favourable player testimonies out there for these men
Very good discussion. More than anythiny my greatest concern in biosecure atmosphere will be how England players react, while playing at home, because they get motivated by the buzzing involvement of the noisy crowd. The main beneficiary of cricket in Covid-19 period will be Pakistan since their cricketers usually take part in domestic first-class competitions in front of hollowed surrounding with no soul in sight around the stands except very few that one can easily count on fingertips.
...thank you Keysey...your hair reminds me that I need to buy some brillo pads...
Bumble should be given knighthood
Paul farbrace imo
Bob Woolmer was brilliant at Warwickshire
Allardcyce and Coleman are brilliant managers
What is that insignia on bumbles’ sweater?
Nassar could do a good Football Pandit, he will give tough time to most Pandits on Sky.. Also Nassar & Roy Keane together would be some fun.. Com'on Nassar until cricket is back..
John Wright, Gary Kirsten and Rahul Dravid.
It is between Duncan Fletcher and Bob Simpson, Duncan 4 me
nah simpson was better..he led aus to a world cup win..4-0 ashes win in england and a series win in the west indies amongst others
Let's see Chappell, I won't mention which one though,😂😂😂😂.
Jokes apart.
I think that McGrath is probably best bowling coach, overall Kirsten and I agree with you guys.
Best coach i know of is Richard John Brathwaite= cricket coach
Atherton 😍😍💙💙
I think Rob Key might actually have a shrine to Zak Crawley in his basement 😂
Cricket needs to be popular
Problem is as world became thick so did cricket as it's got to sell to the dumbed new world punters
Moody and Kirsten
Gary Kirsten and Bob Simpson
Nasser is a funny man
😂😂😂😂 nice joke
Mike Hesson
Nasser looks more like Paul Mckenna everyday
Congrats on bandwidth!
Gary Kirsten. Won the WC with India and took India and SA to No. 1 in test match cricket.
Shankley played top-class football for Preston North End playing in the same team as Tommy Docherty and the great Sir Tom Finney who Shanks said was the best player he ever saw!
He returned I don't know why to Walsall lands worst side 3 years on trot 6th bottom , when draw for cup came out walsall papers told arsenal Chapman's team that our centre half is so fit by 5 you will be buying him a side worth £69 against world champ s triple league champs elect with 40000 squad , arsenal had wembley wizzard but all thinks Inthe box , Leslie centre half marked James in centre circle not box he beat him shirtless his 3k transfer by 5 as Alex James told press who was he only man to ever master me wasall pulled off biggest upset ever won 2 0
4th round the now cult went to Maine road 57000 played against Busby , ginge marked tilson ate him alive bottled all of cities attack and Walsall had ten men 3 rd north Peter Brooke winger had to score both so in 270 mins for a crap French side and Walsall he played Newcastle arsenal and man city in 33 not one centre forward scored from open play we is brainwashed by TV as George leslie in 33 was twice size of bremner and goes down as footballs hardest man ever read arsenal players autobiographies he knew London had flu and Walsall went in boxing ring the with a game plan of beating arsenal up which they did , my grandad was better at. Cricket the club ran caste system in England football his second sport Chapman died scouting Leslie his last fa cup game as manager Walsall 2 arsenal 0 but his last fa cup game Clapton orient v Walsall on his death bed we beat Italy as Chapman manager and they played like Walsall lol
1934 side was far better than 66 just agist people around lol
Athers has updated his wifi plan 🥴
I know who's the worst coach - Greg Chappell
You know nuffin' Jon Snow.
😂😂
Greg Chappell is a good coach you lot in India are just arrogant and think know one can tell you or teach you anything
No my friend. Andy Flower. Watch the KP documentary.
@@bmrcoachingacademy8531 I'm not sure that Chappell had the humility or patience for others that's required for coaching.
Please make it optional to watch without fake crowd noise too!!
Bob Simpson and John Buchanan are probably the greatest cricket coach of all time .
Bob Woolmer and John Buchanan.
Well, Buchanan has nothing much to do, he was having a champion team then.
Woolmer was a technical one.
But, both are superb
Trevor bayless is awesome
Knowing my team, they will have each made sure that they have eaten more of their share of the pies during lockdown than all the other teams.
Duncan Fletcher tried to change Jimmy Anderson's bowling action. Big mistake!
John Wright, Gary Kirsten, Ravi Shastri, and Rahul Dravid. All for different reasons (all cricketing reasons)
Rahul Dravid Grett coach😍😍😍
Bob Woolmer
22 minutes into d show and i suddenly realize dey r talking more about football managers and i haven't heard a single name other dan Ferguson. Felt a bit boring as i only follow football when d world cup is around.
Dav whatmore.
...love the bit with Bumble...'Sat in meetings...he can't do this...he can't do that'...'tell me what he can do'...reminds of the film 'Moneyball'...what can he bring to the team...??...
David liuz has won more premiur league and champions league then any of those arsenal players.
Bobby Simpson, hands down.
Bill Belichick is the best coach in sporting history by quite some distance.
wrong Dr Ric Charlesworth is the greatest ever Coach the world has seen.
How about Trying Ravi Shastri for England .. We all know he is not Rahul Dravid or Laxman .. This guy can talk to you and make you feel like champion & Stokes , Root and Shastri can be a Great Movement on Test cricket
Stokes & Root weren't great playing Ashes in Aus. Does anybody know if Root was given the 66 no. deliberately?
An old song has the line -
🎶 We get our kicks
On Route 66 🎶
you really have to have all of them in one screen.
they had a good points but when Phil Jackson went to the Lakers, he coached Kobe and Shaq, 2 more of the best 10-20 players ever, so he really never did it without all-time good players
It is very difficult to be both a coach and an umpire, as your instinct is to keep telling either the batsman or the bowler where they are going wrong, which is most of the time in weekend club cricket. Of course you soon learn to keep your mouth zipped tight, as you can imagine. But the instinct is still there all the same. I used to tell them after the game, but soon found out that was also not a very good idea to, say the least either.
I console myself in knowing that the reason why very few of them are much good, is precisely because they never listened to their coaches when they were lads.
I also coach 6 to under 16's. Sad to say that most cricket coaching is nothing more then babysitting. Only around 10% of kids have any natural talent at all, and less than half of them pay any notable attention to their coaches. If you have 500 go through your hands and can identify just one that has professional protential you are a very lucky coach indeed, even luckier if he goes on to being a professional player.
The sad thing is that it is not the lack of natural talent that is the problem, it is finding a talented enough one that REALLY wants to play the game to a high level, more than just about anything else that they have going on in their lives, for example football, exam stress, girl friends or far more often video games.
Most of the time you just do your best, and hope that when they get to university they might seriously get the bug, and be lucky enough to find the right coach and contacts there. However you know that most of the more working class potential won't end up at that kind of university.
Therefore you hope that at least one day they might join a local team when they are around 30 odd, for a few laughs and beers on a Sunday afternoon, so that you have not entirely wasted your effort.
As always Atherton is articulate, academic, accentuates the arc of sports management from a macro view; other sports, countries, cultures..
Nasser with his nepotism, he starts his discussion about two English coaches, neglects to mention Woolmer/Wright/Simpson/Simmonds
Garry Kirsten + M.S Dhoni
@ptshrm everything aside he's still the most decorated captain India ever had. So there's no joke. Should be proud of him.
@ptshrm it's the combination of this both brought best out of the team
bob woolmer
Ah back when Bumble was a thing.
Regarding football no English manager has won the Premiership.