WHERE DID ALL THE "MADE FOR" SHAFTS GO / AFTERMARKET FOR EVERYONE??
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2021
- In this video we look at the stock shafts offered by different golf club companies in their drivers, fairways, and hybrids. Are we getting better shafts now? Unfortunately golf club and shaft companies have been very deceptive in how these shafts are marketed. We will talk about how.
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A sober tutorial on the never-ending "real deal"/"made for" debate.
It's an OEM shell game.
You give voice to reason.
Logic dictates.
You consistently produce well thought out, topically relative, videos.
And, I thank you.
You are exactly correct AJ. A $600 dollar driver isn’t going to have a $500 dollar shaft in it at the shop . Buy the exact same shaft after market and you will see the internal wall thickness very different , a golf builder showed me this 15 years ago in his shop ,since then i just buy the heads i like and get the shafts i like .what i dont understand is how they still continue to be able to get away with it .
You covered the topic perfectly, thanks AJ! Ill add that Mitsubishi/Aldila also do the “TX” trick. The Aldila 130 Rogue white is a perfect example. All thier flexes were available for free through callaway except the “TX” flex. The “TX” flex has a completely different profile than all the rest (and likely much more/better materials) of the whole lineup, and is the only true aftermarket shaft, as the others are imposters.
I agree that 95% of the golfing world can probably play any of these cheaper shafts but yea the deception that has gone on forever really eats at me!!
Thank you so much for making this video! So many people don’t get that this is how the whole thing works.
Thanks for watching!
Very frank, honest and factual reality covered, about what is currently happening in the golf industry. Its an eye opener for all of us who blindly accept what ever the golf shop owner tells us.Thanks for an honest input which was very educative.
Great video. The perfect example was with the 2020 Taylormade SIM Max. The stock Fujikura Ventus Blue. It’s not even close to the aftermarket but it is a decent shaft plus Taylormade actually now posts the specs.
True!!!!
Another great video detailing things to bear in mind when looking at shaft specs on stock clubs.
This is a top man, I’ve thought like this for a very long time. The proof of the cake is in the eating, the proof of the shaft is how it performs. Some of the best shafts I’ve used are the cheapest not top named shafts and not dirt cheap. Swing weighting a shaft plus tipping makes it something else.
Excellent topic I like how you handled it spot on!
Thank you. I'll keep an eye out for a used one.
Wow! Thanks for sharing AJ!!!
One of your best video discussions
The Ventus blue offered for some Taylormade clubs isn’t the Velocore aftermarket model. Very cheeky, when I queried the shop not surprisingly they never replied back
yeah.. ventus NON velocore was made for taylormade only.. you cant buy them anyhwere else for any other brand..
A true Ventus will have velicore stamp near tip
I would say that this is one of the most egregious attempts to fool consumers
Thanks for this. Doesn't surprise me. Sometimes buying a top of the line shaft from a few years ago that has never been installed is a much better option.
Great channel....thanks for the vids!
As with golf, I also enjoy motorcycling. The moto industry has been doing the same thing with the tires they sell on their new bikes. The tires look exactly like premium tires but in fact are produced in bulk for the these companies and are def not the same quality.
If you look at the tire to see where it was made....usually a dead give away.
Smoke and mirrors for certain:)
the TXG video comparing a 'stock' Ventus with a 'real' Ventus in a Taylormade Driver was stunning in terms of dispersion & consistency - it was so shocking to me that I actually made a point to demo the new Sim 2 and I could see it in my shot tracers - the Callaway HRZDUS Smoke im10 (mid) shaft is similar - the real shaft is the (low) where the torque specs are completely different
Very good, spot on evaluation
👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 , .. great expose.
Like a guy told me, why would they sell you a 300$ shaft and so call 300$ head for 499.00.
Exactly made for OEM shafts, are priced and produced on a mass scale, meaning less material and quality etc.
But as you say, they blending the names to keep the price point high.
I bought a tour exotics exs220, with a project x yellow x flex. That thing was so wispy and wet noodled I almost gave up on it. Till someone told me, what u saying now, that shaft is not the aftermarket spec and quality hazard shaft.
Changed it out and things got far better.
You have done this topic well, ... what I dont get is, why wont oems, just offer a sell of head, ... then allow us the consumer to choose what shaft we want.
Major oems, should start processing their business like a golf works model.
Enough of this mass selling on single combined components that aren't geared to every player and then we gotta pay extra to sort it out.
People are getting smarter a lil bit, and its showing in some of these companies feeling the hurt.
Excellent Explanation! As in the past the manufacturers co-design shafts with manufacturers to a price point. If the club manufacturers installed real aftermarket shafts they would lose all of their profit. Manufacturers are not going to install a $400 shaft in a $550 club.
Fuji velocore and non velocore options in TM clubs is also a good example... Grinds my gears
Well said eye opener
Love the video! Some of the older people in my golf club fall victim to this and love bragging about how they have these high end shafts like they see on tour. The biggest one is the Fujikura shafts the stock Ventus shafts don't come with velocore but believe me, when tournament day comes all you hear left and right is how they have a $350 velocore shaft in their woods!
They probably care more about being able to say they own it, then actually using it.
@@EFGMC 100% appreciate you taking the time to reply to my comment!
Great Vid - I often wondered about the stock options on new clubs
Thanks for watching!
Increasingly I will vouch for what you say , speak up as you do mate 👍
Great video. As if the game of golf isn't hard enough we need to be aware of this nonsense.
- this video is exactly why when searching for hybrids, one of the things I searched for and found was that Mizuno offers the Tensei Pro White 94-gram TX shaft as an option in their CLK20 Hybrid (I may be the only person that found and ordered it) - but it's the real deal and as a result, has a completely different flight than any other hybrid you can demo (it's not a shaft to have fun with if your Driver Swing Speed in sub 110) - but it produces mid-trajectory rope balls
Mizuno does seem to give the best chance at getting what you think you're getting.
Amazing video !!!
Thank you.
Great video and channel!
Until there is a “standard” for shafts, it will always be deceptive and shady.
Great video .
The im10 - stock offering is a mid launch shaft no option for low launch (callaway)
But the 350 usd aftermatket shaft is low launch low spin.
So wrong profile in the stock but still same name
Depending where you look, I have seen both the mid and low at the $300 to $350 price, but like you said, the low is nowhere to be seen as a stock option.
Really useful information
Thanks for watching!
Worst is TaylorMade putting Ventus Blue in SiM drivers and only difference from real deal is the VeloCore logo...and totally different shaft from Fuji without that premium material. Just so average golfer can say (and see) they have same shaft as guys playing on tour?
TaylorMade are the big boys when it comes to bullshit marketing.
Your spot on
I really enjoy your videos and was watching your video on swing weight was wondering if you might do a video on the different methods of back weighting a golf club and what you think the best method would be
I will add that to the list. As far as which I like best, the Tour Lock counter weights are easy to install so the lazy me votes that way. They are more expensive however.
Thank you AJ... Truth matters.
Thank you as always for another great video with a lot of excellent information AJ! In the end, it sounds like what you are saying is that, despite some deceptive and shady marketing practices, stock shaft offerings for an average, mid-handicapper like me are totally fine, yes? I'm in the market for a new driver this season and am circumspect about spending big money on an aftermarket shaft if a stock option will be just fine.
I think most of the stock option shafts are excellent for most golfers. Obviously some golfers are better suited in different aftermarket shafts but the only way to really answer that is by trying a few shafts side by side and seeing what happens.
Personally, if you have the specs you need, I don't think a $400 shaft will perform any better than a $200 shaft.
Excellent stuff here. I think TM and Callaway are most deceptive. Current Titleist, Ping and PXG are real deal shafts I think.
I have a few Ping fairway woods and find that their stock CB shafts are outstanding so I agree with your comment.
I have a Stealth TaylorMade Driver with a Stock Shaft that would appear to be a $296 Ventus Fujikura. It felt absolutely Dead hitting my new TM Driver. Fortunately I had a spare Ping Distanza 40g Shaft from my old Ping G400 Max Driver so I got my Club Pro to fit the Distanza Shaft with a TM Hosel Adaptor and having now looked at your Video guess what - I'm 40 yards further down the Fairway and getting feedback.
I didn't know this, but also I'm not really surprised by it either. For example, I found out that Tour Edge offers a Ventus shaft but it doesn't have the velocore. Which of you think logically, makes sense, why would they give you a shaft that costs as much as you pay for the driver?
Like you said, these aren't bad shafts, but they're not the luxury aftermarket shafts that they are leading you to think they are.
got the famous T800 with callaway, couldn't hit any ball. sold, and now happy titleist customer
AJ, following up on your thoughts about going to a fitter... what are you thoughts on fitting yourself for a shaft through the Maltby playability factor (MPF rating) and Russ Ryden's golfshaftreviews (eg. EI charts)? Excellent video, as always!
I've read mixed reviews on the Maltby ratings. Never really looked into them.
Big fan of what Russ Ryden does. It's one guy using the same machine and doing all the testing himself so that takes a lot of the variables out of it. I count the golfshaftreviews website as a great resource.
This is one of the reasons Ping is so awesome. While everyone else is trying to up the perception of their stock offerings with mimicked after market shafts their stock cb and tour shafts consistently out perform even their own (raw orange, rogue white) “after market” options. Seriously people might be turned off by Ping’s cb and tour shafts but if they tried them they would be very surprised at how good they are and how many players they fit fairly well.
Ping has definitely always done things their own way.
The Ping Stock" ALTA CB. shafts are made by Aldila..they work just fine ..
Lots of Ping tour players use those stock Ping shafts, especially the seniors!
They have to make this game affordable even though recently, manufacturers are getting out of hand with their pricing.
Thanks this vid is great! I guess I’m lucky in the sense that I don’t really care for shafts as I don’t believe a shaft has a lot of impact on the launch characteristics. So I play with what ever my 2nd hand clubs of eBay come with 😊
Thanks for watching!
The Callaway Apex UW is about to be released. Stock shaft is a Project X "Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 70", but I cannot find detailed specs on their site. Going over to TrueTemps website you can see detailed spec for Project X " Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX" with no "70" designation. Are these two different shafts ? Another example of your talk "Where did all the "made For" shafts go?"
They have the 70 specs on the PX page, just under the 60. Also have the 80. The 5.5, 6.0, and 6.5 are all pretty close spec wise. They also make a 6.5TX with different specs (at least not in line with the others). Guessing those won't be a standard option!
Aj this is still happening today, Taylormade did it last year Identical name and numbering different materials used in the shafts. TXG have great video's exposing it.
Definitely still happening. Some club and shaft brands are worse than others but, consumers need to do some homework if they are really worried about what they are buying.
I can give a good example of shafts Golfworks has a graffalloy. GWX shaft that is fraction of the cost of a Ventus and out performs it hands down
It might have performed better for you but maybe the other way around for someone else.. Just a thought
Your talking 50 $ or 400$+ nuff said
My g400/410 Pings all have Ping branded shafts. They offered a Tensei stock shaft but went with Ping offerings (Alta CB in wood and hybrid, Tour 65 in D)
How do you like them? I have really only heard good things about the Ping co designed shafts.
@@EFGMC I'm very happy with them but honestly can't compare to any other contemporary shafts. I've transitioned over last 8 months from a lifelong occasional golfer using hand me down equipment to playing 1-4 rounds per week. The Alta feels great with more controlled fluid swings I make with them and Tour 65 was probably best choice of stock considering I needed to lower trajectory and reduce spin but was more interested in maximum forgiveness in head (410 plus).
@@EFGMC i have ping woods and driver s with the stock" ALTA CB...(made by Aldila.).and I have also put the Tensei Blue , and Orange shafts in them.. I like the Tensei better .just feel smoother kick or something ..but the Stock ALTA works great as well...
The exception being Ping of course.
Are the 5 dislikes for this video from Callaway, Taylormade, Cobra, Titleist and Ping? Valuable information here that will make me much more careful about future purchases.
Yeah, they only have a few 'flying monkeys' they can send out to down vote.
Some may be "same" shaft but different origin. For the Smoke shaft, the aftermarket is clearly stated Handcrafted in USA. The stock option without upcharge I am not sure where they are manufactured.
Don't think PX makes anything in US anymore. The Handcrafted were produced in San Diego but they no longer do that. Everything is made overseas.
Not going to lie....I did not know this. Shows how much I pay attention to the specs. I just used to look for stiff.
I would guess 75% of men just look for stiff or x stiff and off they go!
Plenty of golfers don't realize this goes on, and most it probably doesn't effect. That being said, still don't think it should be happening.
This is exactly why I play PXG. All the shafts they use are after market.
I pretty much knew this, although I'm making clubs much less than I used to and maybe made the false assumption that DTC companies, like Hogan and other component companies, like Golfworks/Maltby sold and/or installed genuine aftermarket shafts. For example, from Golfworks, I bought their TE forged irons with their Pak bundle with UST Recoil shafts. The aftermarket shafts are approximately $25, so nothing outrageous, so I'm assuming that they'll at least use the aftermarket shaft, and not a made for shaft in that situation.
Also, I'm about to purchase the Hogan combo Ptx Pro/Icons with the UST Recoil Smackwrap...same situation. Is my assumption that I'm getting at least the $35 aftermarket shaft an accurate assumption? Also, I was going to get the Max Driver and 4 wood, and an option is the Hzrdus Smoke. What will I be getting?
I actually love my TE forged irons with the Recoil shafts, but If they aren't aftermarket, I don't like deception, and won't be happy. I'm far from being a brand name snob....I actually have spent the last 20 years buying from component companies, and buying my share of house brand shafts, but when they're being deceptive, and it appears they are....more so now than ever, I'd like to know. Thanks.
So I didn't get an $800 AutoFlex , when I bought a NOS Taylormade Fujikura Speeder 47 L flex for $14.95 shipped off EBAY ? DARN, I was thinking about buying another one to tip an inch , to try to lower ball flight a bit!
These stock shafts by different manufacturers then the original but they are given license/ permission to make them. They use less of the expensive materials and more resins to make it cheaper but as you say they work well for the masses. I agree that it’s deceiving but if you are fit for it oh well works!
Agree. Plenty of these shafts are solid, but it's all just a convoluted and deceptive.
I'm not buying anymore new equipment. Had my 1989 Eye2's refurbed and I'm sticking with those. I don't need to carry a bag full of wedges to make up for jacked lofts on modern clubs. I'm gaming a 2013 Cobra driver and an older Ping G25 3-metal. The marketing these days is sheer madness and all the guys at my club are buying new sets every year with zero improvement in handicap index.
I have set of ping eye 2s, but recently went on e-bay and picked up a set of karsten III rails. I love um
Thank you for your courage in producing this video, indeed the practice of Club Manufacturers selling new clubs with famous shafts is very misleading & giving you the false impression that the club you bought does come with a premium shaft at a low price! Nothing like that is real, it is purely a marketing strategy to encourage more buyers to think they are getting a good deal! Really, check the price of a premium shaft before committing to a good deal set up!
Are the Jupiter shades any good
what about the up charge shaft offerings, let's say in the TSi range, I am/was fairly certain the Tensei RAW offering in the stock option is a "watered down/made for" option, but if I where to go for one of the up charge ones, will I still get a watered down version of that shaft or are the the "real deal" in your oppinion
Have not seen evidence that any of the upcharge shaft options are not what they say they are. Could be wrong, and of course some people might debate the prices for the upgrades, but they seem like they are what they say.
Most are always watered down versions of the upgraded ones. You always get what you pay for.
They're doing a similar thing with guitars as well
Hell Yes ,been also going on for years...Designed in. .......etc...
Interesting, make sense guess you have to pay a lot if you want something else than stock shafts. I think Ping if still offering Ping branded shafts
Ping is the only brand I know who co designs their shafts and are extremely involved in the process. Have really only seen good things said about those shafts.
What ever shafts you have in your golf clubs they must work for you. The problem is the only true test is in your hands, this can take almost forever with flex, tipping, swing weight to name just a few. Just because something is more expensive doesn’t mean that they are better.
Yes I've known this for years(and years) and they both keep doing it to the very people they want to trust them and buy their expensive yearly updates with dreams of hitting it further down the fairway. This really is one industry that is not very trustworthy, but because all love golf people keep going back to them for more of the same. Too funny.
Thank you for your hard work and sharing. I have a question. I have a Nike Vr II pro driver head without shaft or STR8-Fit tour hossel. I don't care about adjustability. Is there a way for me to install a shaft?
Really not sure on this one. Can you find the hosel on eBay? Other option would be one of the 3rd party fitting adapters like Club Conex that you could maybe use. Just guessing on that though.
@@EFGMC Can't find one on E-bay. I'm not sure if other Nike models would work. If it would screw onto the head maybe I could get it to work. BTW, Thanks for replying.
Waiting for a reply from Club Conex. Thank you for your help.
@@arnoldlunsford9872 You may need to go with a different brand. Club Conex was bought by True Spec and the pricing structure is basically a scam now. If you could find some used ones on eBay, might be an option. Also could check out Billy Bobs Golf or Golfworks as both have some different options similar to Club Conex.
Very interesting now I know what to look for or stay away from
All ping shafts are top notch even ping tour made by ust is a great shaft.Checkout txg they admit it .
Ping is really the only company now who actually puts their name on the shafts since they co design all of them. You are correct, they are excellent.
So I understand that the shafts are not the exact same, but given that are they based off of the profile of the top end version of the shaft they are labeled as? Or is it more of strictly just a label on a shaft that has no resemblence of what the tour level shaft would be?
Really will be shaft by shaft dependent. Some are similar with slight differences in materials or amounts of materials. Some can be completely different profiles. This can get extra tricky when a shaft company produces a TX flex version. The TX will almost always have a different profile and see a spec jump. For instance the torque measurement may go from 4.4 to 4.2 to 4.0 as it goes from R to S to X. But then the TX will drop to 2.8 so it moves outside the steady progression of the other flexes.
In hockey the players use old sticks that they feel comfortable with sometimes not even the same brand that theyre signed to but the companies will give the stick a paint job to resemble the brand new stick that is being sold in retail shops. Shady lol
does this hold true with irons as well? thank you for this information!
Iron shafts in general are much cheaper and the majority are steel so it happens infrequently at best. This happens in large part because the professional game uses these high end graphite driver shafts so amateurs want to copy that. Most pros play steel shafts so you don't have the same desire to copy. That said, you do see things like the Tour Issue DG logo showing up on wedges from every brand that I am not sure are really tour issue as far as specs go. So that would be the most prevalent case for this.
I noticed this too with my tensei. Its not a fully raw tensei. No badge for the velocore
Wouldn't be any Velocore on a Tensei shaft. It's a completely different manufacturer.
@@mulvihillmatt my mistake. Either way there is something different about the tensei 60 gram blue for the sim 2. I like it but something about it doesn't feel right
@@GeoffAskewGolf you’re completely right on that. I have the same shaft on as well. I swapped it out for the Tensei Pro Orange and I love it.
@@mulvihillmatt im getting a fit for a new shaft in july. I may also be using the wrong stiffness and bend profile for me. At a full stepped on swing im reaching a little over 180 ball speed. With a 43.5 length. At 45 it felt like a noodle.
What about the Tensei orange for the Ping G425? Special edition for Ping? Same as the blue for TM?
The Orange is going to fall into the same category as most stock offerings today. You can buy it for around $250 but it's not the same type shaft as the Tensei Pro Orange for example. The TX versions of that shaft will be more expensive usually as they have more high end materials used.
Not sure exactly where that Blue AV falls as it shows a different weight from the standard aftermarket AV Blue. Something strange going on with it but not sure what the story is.
Do you have any opinions on the *new* Project X IO shafts? After watching your video and then see these new shafts in the Callaway irons, it kind of fits this pattern.
I haven't hit them, but from reading they seem to be excellent quality shafts. Weight and launch is typical of what Callaway likes to use in their irons. Callaway does sometimes use slightly different version of steel shafts however, I have found that those shafts are always very solid. If the weight and flight fit your game, I would have zero issues with those IO shafts.
@@EFGMC Thanks for the reply and insight. I actually have some coming with Nippon Modus 120 stiff but I was curious. Also, great job on the videos, keep them coming 😊
@@lagit4strokesgained820 120 is a great shaft. Just picked up some 115s that I will be installing in my "new to me" irons in next weeks video.
Back in 1997, I bought the Project X T-800 but got the T-1000. Shortly thereafter, Judgment Day started!
AGREED! It's deception to make as much money as they can.
Thank you, very good to know! I bought my driver and 5 wood from Callaway Canada and they came with what I thought was a real Project X HZRDUS. I will have to carefully research the shafts I actually have, if they are cheap imitations than that is fraudulent and at the very least actionable in civil court, I paid enough for the products and I hate getting ripped off. At the very least I will return the products and demand a refund if Callaway has been dishonest. How can I prove that my shafts are not what they were advertised to be?
That gets extremely tricky as none of the OEMs are going to use language that is explicitly dishonest. They will go just far enough to let you draw your own conclusions.
Again, I don't want people to think that these stock shafts are bad, because in many cases they are excellent shafts for the majority of golfers.
People just need to be extra careful when looking at the options and make sure they understand what they are getting vs what they think they might be getting.
@@EFGMC Thanks again, I guess as usual, Caveat Emptor! The corporations make money and we the minority lose it. Next time I will get fitted professionally at somewhere like TXG in Toronto, at least I will know what I am getting for my money. Do you have any feedback on the Callaway version of the HZDRUS Smoke iM10 60g mid spin shaft in a 5 wood? I am not hitting it very well and bought it because I already had a HZDRUS Smoke 60 g low spin in my Callaway driver, and like the way that shaft works for me. And another question if you have the time, I was fitted for my Mizuno irons and the Dynamic Gold AMT S300's were recommended at the time, would these shaft be the real deal or a cheaper version of what they are portrayed to be?
@@Brentokan The mid and the low are very different shafts. Personally, I think the low is likely the more premium version, while the mid ends up as the "stock" option.
I don't know of any "funny" AMT shafts. Steel, you usually don't have as many deceptive practices on. Those Mizuno DGs would be the real thing.
@@Brentokan shafts should be heavier in your fairway woods.
So if your a 60 in driver
5w should be 70-80
It could be the real deal. Project X shafts are some of the most affordable aftermarket shafts available. That’s why you see them offered as stock options by most companies these days. If it’s fake, there will be something on the shaft that distinguishes itself from the “real” version.
What is your opinion on the "engineered for titleist" diamana shafts from the 910-917 lineup? I love the Diamana Ahina, but am concerned about buying a driver shaft which says "engineered, or designed for"
I wouldn't discount a shaft just because it says "made for" or any variation of that. The question is does that shaft work with your swing based on weight, flex, and bend profile.
This isn't only true of shafts, but the entire club. There are counterfeit clubs that look exactly like the real product & even the sellers can't tell the difference so there's never a guarantee that you're getting the product you paid for, especially off the rack sales.
Depends on where you go. I work for Golfmart (world wide golf shops) we have accounts with all the major brands. I call customer service to check on orders and we get visits from the sales reps bi weekly. I custom order my own stuff. Everything in the store it top class legitimate. The store must have an account/ a fitting cart/ testing demos, etc. it’s easy to spot a legitimate business. And BTW, I can spot a fake club a mile away. When you’ve seen hundreds of them it’s easy when you know what to look for. The average Joe doesn’t and unfortunately gets taken often by that. Just try to go to a store with actual accounts with major manufacturers.
Also what’s said here is absolutely correct about shafts. But also realize that the shaft just has to be better quality than the quality of the player. So a beginner-it doesn’t matter, average player- the made for OEM mid range/stock shafts are fine, advanced player-$200-300 upgrade premium shaft.
My driver shaft is a “Hand Crafted Project x Black Hzrdus 75 6.5” with my Callaway driver it was a $275 upcharge. If it doesn’t say hand crafted it’s the made for OEM version, their about $80-100, and very good in their own right. The OEM one is in my 3wd and it’s very good but I can tell the difference but one was a comped club and the other one I paid for. I get the premium when it’s a company free bee.
With the video in mind, what aftermarkets shaft should I be on the look out for? Specifically looking to purchase a used club (TM r9 460). But willing to look around based on a better aftermarket shafts. What would be good after market shafts from 2010-2016?
I would look out for Mitsubishi Diamana or a Graphite Design AD. Those are usually authentic and were not copied or watered down during that time range. Most important thing is finding a shaft with the right specs though. A more expensive shaft that doesn't fee right is worthless.
@@EFGMC Oh yes, i've seen Diamana shaft around. What about matrix or fubuki?
Apart from stiff, is there any specific specs I should look for? The length will be a variable, but it can always be trimmed down.
@@hotdogint Older Matrix shafts are another great option. They made maybe the most consistent shafts of anyone for many years. Just make sure you are getting a shaft at least 44 inches long if it's used, so you know it is for and will be long enough for a driver.
@@EFGMC Right on. Standing at 6 feet plus shoes makes shorter clubs quite the handicap. Thanks for the input!
GREAT video. Yeap, MONEY is the name of the GAME. And they make LOTS OF IT..!
Fortunately I am in a position to go to a proper club fitter, test a series of heads and shafts and have the club built for me. That way I do not get deceived by the club manufacturers marketing. Sure it is more expensive that way but I can tell the difference, even if my talent does not take advantage of the difference
Motorcycle oem tyres arent the real deal either coming from factory. Not sure its a good strategy as the watered-down version falls short when comparing to a competitors "real deal". The mark up of clubs is rediculous enough but then if you dont switch for 10 years and play twice a week its probably ok...
I've seen several of the "big" golf RUclipsrs not do their homework and during a review actually say that you are getting the premium shaft upgrade for cheap.
There are some cases where some brands do have more expensive (usually older premium aftermarket) as stock options but it's so hard to know. Some times it can be the same shaft, but produced in different factories and the only tell is on the shaft label under the grip.
I like being fooled and overcharged by the big names! Then, when I squirrel my ProV1 left dash into the pond, I blame the equipment. Just kidding.. I have an LA XXX Trono on my tour prototype Titleist, two Scotties (one for North-South, one for east-west putts) a military grade range finder, self walking FootJoys, abd a magic pencil for keeping my scores low, that is, low scores. Alsi, a litre if Kelvinnie single malt in my bag.
Like that last idea!
What about iron shafts? Are Project X LZ or KBS $ taper that come in oem irons the real deal?
Yes, to my knowledge, the steel shafts are all what they say they are. On occasion, you get a Callaway or someone who has a shaft made for them like the True Temper stepless XP shaft they used in the Rogue line or the Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S200 they use in their wedges, but the first shaft was very different looking because of the lack of stepping and the tour issue band is again different color. Again, just read the shaft labels to make sure you know what you're getting as far as weight etc.
AJ, Would you say that getting fitted at a place like Club Champion who may fit and sell you a non OEM shaft with your head of choice is a better way to avoid the confusion and get what you really need?
Probably not, because they don't even give you the option of trying any of the stock stuff. It also seems like they guide people into certain equipment setups which makes me question the validity of the fittings. Not to mention they try and sell everyone on shaft PUREing, which I don't agree with.
Agree club champion will attempt to take you for all your money. Ive seen 4k bill for 2k worth of stuff. Go to a smaller clubfitter would be my recommendation
@@EFGMC 💯 AJ. 2 years ago I was custom fit at club champion in NJ. For a cobra F9 driver , 3-4 wood 5-6 wood and 2 hybrids. The Fitter put me right into Accra Fx 2.0 360 M4 ($365 surcharge) and 2 fairway and 2 hybrid shafts both Accra Fx 2.0. Mucho dinero. I no longer have those clubs the F9 driver was not forgiving enough for me, I wound up selling all the heads, I still have all the shafts with Cobra Tips.
Goin to see if these shafts are good for me next year at my custom fit at 2ndSwing in Delaware. Goin to be taking a 2 hour drive from New York. I’m recovering from rotator cuff surgery in December 19 and my speed is not up to where it needs to be for that level of stiffness. Club champion also pushed the shaft Puring which I also did.
I just bought a TM SIM MAX 3 wood and 5 wood. both have the Project X RIPTIDE regular flex 5.5R 60 g. Is this one of those “made for” shafts. I don’t see it listed on True Tempers website. They have listed a Riptide 50 (5.5 Regular) but not a 60
@@stephendibari5010 Your description of your experience at CC seems to be the norm and not the exception unfortunately.
@@EFGMC thanks. Any idea on the Project X RIPTIDE shafts i mentioned at the end of my comments?
The Cobra Rad shafts, Motore x and RDX blue are real ... as was the Atmos tour blue in the F9
True, although I have read some differing accounts about the Atmos and it being produced in different factories with differing QC.
@@EFGMC I believe it was real. But their 2021 offerings show everyone up I think. Incredible stock shafts
@@nicchoulman5789 Definitely will have a better chance with the smaller guys (Cobra, Mizuno, etc) than with the Callaways and Taylormades.
Is this done with the Even Flow blue? I have one on a Cobra Bio Cell I bought used and it seems like the prices online are all over.
Project X is probably the worst as far as knowing what you are getting and having slight variations within models. The Even Flow blue and black were both produced in a standard version and a Hand Crafted version made in San Diego. Specs were the same but the HC version was supposedly tighter spec'd. The standard ones can be found for $50 more or less, the HC still get $150 or more in some cases.
@@EFGMC That's what confused me while looking it up online. Both shafts look identical and are described in the same fashion, the only difference being the "handcrafted" shaft and of course, the price. This marketing approach is confusing since there is very little that differentiates the premium handcrafted shaft, unless the whole point is to prop up the cheaper shaft. This begs the question; why ever buy the HC?
@@mrpopenfresh Unfortunately this is the shaft business. Smoke and mirrors, misdirection.
First "made-for OEM" was when Titleist replaced the made for Diamana's with the Diamana LTD's.
That said, don't generalize too much. Mizuno non-upcharge shafts for example, are indeed real deal.
Titleist 975 w/ the Fujikura Speeder is the first one I always think of. Looked like a Speeder 757 but small words "Exclusively for Titleist" told the tale.
@@EFGMC just going by your example of making a shaft for an oem and selling it at premium prices, which is the LTD. Fuji never sold the Exclusively For Titleist Speeder.
@@seymourbutts5277 Got it. Thought you were talking about stock option shafts disguised as premium. Didn't remember the LTD being sold independently.
@@EFGMC yep. It's still on the website, and it's still no upcharge with most oems except the TX version of course lol
I’m toying with the idea of buying some old Ben Hogan irons (Directors/medallions) and having modern shafts installed. Is this a bad idea? Would the blade heads not meld with lighter modern shafts? I’m not worried about the resale value of the clubs. I just really love the old Hogan blades but I’d like them to be a little easier to hit as a senior mid handicap player. I’d appreciate your input. Thanks
No reason to not try it. Shaft weight changes won't ruin a club. If you play better with lighter shafts, you should play lighter shafts regardless of what head it's attached to.
@@EFGMC thank you. Much appreciated. And thank you for sharing your insights about the fitting game. I’ve learned a lot.
However, aren't most project x shaft the same? Not the tx version you mentioned but most smoke series and evenflow series are the same. Perhaps, those handcrafted and small batch ones have tighter tolerance. Still, they use the same material as non-hand non-small versions. Even more, i think project x stops doing handcrafted or small batch things for their newer rdx shafts. I see some limited pvd versions but that's just cosmetic. Of course, I do agree with those Japanese shaft makers coming up with the watered-down stock versions. BTW, i love the stock callaway im10 mid :)
Correct that they did away with the Handcrafted builds out of San Diego. Now everything is produced offshore. Small batch is just tighter tolerances supposedly.
RDX line is a more mid level shaft so they don't seem to do Small Batch with them as they were designed as stock option OEM shafts.
@@EFGMC thanks! That's why I have been going with project x shafts. They perform well and are much cheaper than others (as I only need 60g stiff range shafts for my swing). Still wondering about Callaway im10. At least it works for me very well.
@@jek7011 The iM10 again gets a little tricky. They have the mid which is the version available as stock options. Pretty much middle of the road stock shaft as far as specs go. Then you have the low, which appears to be much more stout, low launch, low torque. That shaft doesn't appear to be a stock option anywhere as I would guess it's more expensive to produce even though they price the two shafts the same.
All that being said, what really matters is if whatever shaft it is, works for you!
Where do you recommend going or what are some reputable online companies to purchase a legit OEM shaft ?
you cant buy these "made for/upgrade/made for club brand" shafts separately, so if you go buy a separate shaft it will be a legit premium model.
If you are talking about aftermarket premium shafts this question gets tricky. As I said in the video, some of these shafts are sold as premium aftermarket but shouldn't be. The pricing however is dictated by the OEM and not the retailer so the shop selling them can't really be blamed. Really need to do your homework to know what you are looking at and for. This sometimes means going to both the retailers website and the manufacturers site to see if you can glean any clues.
All that being said, some brands are far more transparent. Graphite Design is a good example. Any of the high end stuff they make is what they say it is. No trickery. Matrix (now LA Golf) always had really good quality shafts.
Brands where it gets cloudy include Project X, Fujikura, Aldila/Mitsu. Again, they all make great shafts but you need to be more careful to make sure you know what you're getting.
So would ordering a shaft from Golf Works be a safe bet in getting a legit aftermarket premium shaft.
@@-What-are-your-thoughts In most cases yes. Just make sure you read the description to know for sure.
@@EFGMC When the Ozik line was discontinued with Matrix, these could be found very inexpensively. At a shaft testing for my son's driver, the recommended one was $400, but barely changed the numbers from the Ozik Red tie from a few years back. After 3 hours of shaft work, the fitter changed the ball from ProV1x to AVX and the driver spin numbers came down and optimized the driver. There are so many factors involved now. Imagine what Mr. Hogan could've done with all this...and a good putter and putting coach ;-).
So what is the tensie blue shaft that comes stock in this years drivers and fairways
Most have the actual Tensei Raw Blue 65, however TM has the 60 discussed in the video. Still not sure what the story is with that.
@@EFGMC I have Mitsubishi tensei blue 55 reg shaft in my new Titleist driver. Now I’m ordering same shafts for my Ping 3W and hybrid from my club builder. He orders it directly. Will that be the same shaft or will those be better?
@@clifflattanzio5267 Is it the Raw or the AV? Should be the same, just in different weights.
AV
@@clifflattanzio5267 Just different weights with corresponding specs. Same shaft.
Ping Tour is made by UST I believe.
Think that is true. Ping is a different case with their shafts. Haven't tried them, but everything I read says they are excellent.
Aldila I think now... So the rep said
First of all, great video!
I heard that Mizuno has some of the best non-upcharge offerings in the driver market. Any knowledge on this? For example the Diamana D+ Limited (whiteboard) which seems to be the exact spec of the Whiteboard on Mitsubishis website. I also think the new Project X RDX shafts are "the real deal" even the versions that are not the PVD (special finish) ones.
Mizuno does seem to have some better options. They had stock Fuji Atmos Tours for a few years now, although I have read that these shafts may be made in different factories where quality control is not the same.
Those Diamana's do seem to be on spec so I don't know if they are older stock with updated paint or something else. From what I've seen though, they are very solid shafts regardless.
Project X is always a can of worms to get into. I think the RDX line is just a less expensive line but PX always seems to me to be the most confusing and misleading of any of the big shaft companies.
@@EFGMC thanks for the awesome reply! Yeah, PX always seems fishy. Sure is a topic I've been very interested in.
Same story with taylormade- ventus black but no velocore and also smoke green
Project X between the Small Batch, Hand Crafted, multiple profiles within one model, and the TX unique profiles and materials, they are the most confusing and deceptive of any of them.
So how do I tell when purchasing a set of clubs?
you google the info on the shaft and see if you can find it on the shaft manufacturer's website.
Just because a shaft is less expensive or made for certain brands doesn't make it bad. Need to say that first. However if you are worried about what you are getting, I would check the club website and then compare to the shaft company website to see if
1. That shaft is advertised on the site
2. If the specs are the same
Just to get extra murky, I didn't even get into this in the video really, but some shafts will have a completely different profile, specs, materials in a TX version from the R, S, X shafts.
Just need to do some research, if you know what to look for, you can find the answers usually.
@MOBILE CLUBMAKER thanks for info
The Tensei raw white that's offered as stock option in the new Titleist TSi line seems to have the same specs as the one on Mitsubishi's aftermarket website. Do you know if they are the same shafts? I noticed the Taylormade stock shafts all seem to have slightly different markings or are missing some markings as you said.
if you can match up numbers and specs it will be that premium shaft , otherwise that would give room to sue them, that's why taylormade etc use different numbers, so you cant actually say its a shaft it isnt.
Some companies have the white and the blue Raw as stock options. What happened with Taylormade I can't say. The rule I use (at least I did use until very recently) is if you see a shaft with a retail price under $250, it's the same shaft being offered as a stock option. Unfortunately as I said in the video, there seems to now be artificial price inflation on some shafts into the over $300 range that still end up as stock options.
The av raw lineup is all basic cheaper stock stuff *except* the TX flex.
Im not positive the "off the shelf" name brand shafts are the real deal. For instance, the Evenflow that came with my club vs the Hazardous Yellow aftermarket shaft are noticeably different in terms of sound. I was in prototyping a while back and a simple tap test can tell you whether something is epoxy rich, or very low epoxy to carbon ratio. The "off the shelf" Evenflow sounds like a plastic mess. The Hazardous Yellow aftermarket has that "tinging" noise that can only come from a low resin, high carbon layup.
Project X has so many variations, names, logos, paint jobs, differing profiles and materials based on flex. You need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure them out.