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Considering the queens normal reaction which is death to all who are against me,she was quite merciful to Jorah. Probably because he did do a lot for her Allowed him to leave. The last person who betrayed her got entombed in a vault as punishment.
I said it once, I'll say it again. " If you're expecting a happy ending, you're watching the wrong show. " That being said, get that popcorn 🍿 ready , sit back, and enjoy the battle at the WALL. Oh baby, are you guys in for a treat. It's one of my all-time favorite episodes. The Watchers on the Wall !! Can't wait to see the look on your faces. Enjoy
in the rules of arena oberyn lost when he lost his 1st spear, noone allows gladiators to quickly get another weapoin of stop fight go to blacksmith and forge another one :D thats why hoplomacus carried dagger on this case
It happened because Oberyn cared more about avenging his sister than saving Tyrion; but also, there was a nice bit of foreshadowing of this last episode. Bronn literally explained why you don't fight the Mountain, because even if he could knock him off his feet, get him vulnerable, all it would take is one misstep and he'd be dead.
@@Fett411 Yes seriously, everyone mentions Tywin, Varys, Olenna, Tyrion, Baelish, etc when talking about the smartest players of the Game of Thrones, but Bronn might unironically be the best one.
@@Fett411 The only reason people don't put Bronn in the same category as Tywin, Tyrion, Olenna, etc, is because he never actually challenges them intellectually, he never tests his wits against anybody.
EXACTLY! This fight made me realize something that an ASOIAF podcast pointed out when analyzing this very chapter, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons won't lead you on the same path as doing it for the right reasons. It was not about Tyrion for Oberyn. Had it been, he would have won.
yeah i mean killing the mountain without confession would mean literally nothing to dorne, just because the reader likes tyrion why should oberyn act different?
You just cant go wrong with Pedro and Sean!... I've loved Sean Beans acting for years, only downside when I see him is that I already know that his character (almost always) gonna die sooner or later xD Dx
Oberyn wanted Mountain's confession so much because he wanted him to admit that Tywin was the one who gave order to kill Elia, so Dorne could stand against Lannisters openly
I hate it when people say that Oberyn was gloating instead of finishing off The Mountain. Yes, he was a show-off, but he was not gloating or just being arrogant. He just wanted the Mountain to confess and name Tywin, because that was literally his purpose in coming to King's Landing. He was after Tywin, and if the Mountain dies, then he could never prove his involvement in Elia's murder.
Yk, it's kind of funny how even after Ned's execution, even after the Red Wedding, we still thought that Oberyn would live in such anticlimactic scenario.
By the 3rd season I had a running joke with my friends. A common theme in the show in talking about the characters would generally involve someone saying, 'I really love this charact.....oh he's dead' 🥺. There are many exceptions but the ones in the general rule stand out more.
Now, now, this isn't completely over, Oberyn's the Red VIPER, remember? Poison was his whole game, let's see how the Mountain handles those spear cuts."
Oberyn really broke my heart. He was consumed with vengeance for his sister and her children, that it killed him too in the end. This was one of the worst moments of the show for me (even though I read the book and knew it was coming). In a short space of time, we grew to love Oberyn, cheered for him, and then lost him so quickly and awfully.
Oberyn was a great character and he would have won this battle was it not for him being too consumed with his feelings and need for vengeance and doing what so many others before him have lost for.. talking too much v_v If he just delivered the finishing blow without the need of a confession he would have won and it still makes me so upset ;__;
Oberyn was a phenomenal character. Very brave, very colorful, and very smart. And like most of the other smart characters we've seen in this show, he made a stupid mistake which ended up costing him everything.
When I look back at it, Oberyn's death was horrifyingly brutal. Seeing a confident and experienced warrior getting his eyes pushed in while he is screaming his head off, really does something to you.
His death was one of the most brutal TV deaths I've ever seen. The fact a death like this happened to such a badass & charismatic character makes it so much worse.
The trick is in the contrast: a moment ago he was confident, funny, a living soul; 5 seconds later he is scared, helpless, a pile of meat to be crushed......
Seeing all the teeth fly out got to me first time I watched it, crazy detail and even worse in the books says they were shattered in his mouth. I think Biter vs Brienne in the books was a little more brutal though.
I think Arya was laughing hysterically at least partly because of the Hound's expression of disbelief. Twice now he's taken her to relatives to ransom her, only to be denied each time. It's like Fate is conspiring to deny him his money at this point!
Yeah Arya didn't really know her aunt Lysa very well (or at all?), so it wasn't a grief reaction. She just finds it hilarious that the Hound has had this happen to him twice now.
Fun fact, Pedro Pascal was actually asleep in the scene where his head was being crushed in (outside of the screaming scenes obviously). The blood and guts that he had on his face were so cooling on the hot day and the actor for the Mountain was so gentle that he legit fell asleep xD
Do you guys remember what Bronn said last episode when Tyrion wanted Bronn to fight for him? , all it takes is one misstep and you’re laying on your back which is exactly what happened to Oberyn
I feel like such a psycho because I loved seeing them so excited at first so shocked during and then so mad after, I was laughing to myself knowing that was me in the exact same position feeling the exact same emotions when I first watched it.
The Bear and the Maiden Fair isn't actually about Brienne, it's a traditional folk song in Westeros. Brienne's captors just sang it as a joke when they put her in to fight with the bear.
The song is about brute men being a danger to the physically weaker women. Could also interpret it symbolically as the men dominating in society. Briennes story often angles on how women navigate a mans world. Singing the song was mocking her and “putting her in her place”
Jorah's biggest mistake was that he never fessed up. It's hard to fully trust someone who was never fully honest with you. The viewer knows that it's been a long time and Jorah has renounced his past of spying for the crown, but for Dany it's the first time she's hearing about all this. She justifiably feels betrayed and that she can't trust him anymore. It was a great chess move on Tywin's part to send them a copy of King Robert's original pardon to Jorah.
yeah, and we have to remember she doesn't have as much knowledge as we have as well we can see jorah still means well as the audience she can't because he sold dany's secrets even of her baby, she would have a hard time trusting him especially when she heard it from a letter and not himself (like you said)
Oberyn's death is most definitely not "a waste". Unlike all the other cookie-cutter fantasy books/shows, GoT is all about realistic consequences (and that's why people loved it so much). Ed, Rob, Oberyn, these are not wasted characters, they are characters that don't manage to magically escape the consequences of their own mistakes or character traits with the help of plot armor and/or some contrived deus ex machina bullshit.
okay but there is plot armor for other characters its just that these deaths move the story. lowkey the mountain still being alive is some plot armor shit. but it is okay bc it is fiction lol
Oberyn’s death was the one in the entire show all 8 seasons… that annoyed me the most.. easily my favourite character and had so much that could’ve been developed.
28:24 Aryas loud echoing giggle is my favourite part about this episode everyone was so confused and she was just laughing at the hounds bad luck , i don’t blame her it was too ironic at this point I would also get sent like that 😂 it was super relatable!
Theon wasn't hinting his men at getting help because if he wanted help he would've escaped with Yara. At this point he's given up to Ramsey and completely lost his mind and pride.
I will never forget reading this scene in the book. When he stabs the Mountain I jumped out of my chair out of excitement, I turned the page, and I just sunk to the floor from crushing sadness. George, like many twists in the series, wrote it perfectly. The show does a great job of translating that feeling. You have your doubt that anything good can happen and they push it up to the edge so far that for a second you believe he won, and then comes the most brutal death in the show. Great reaction as always!
LolWith your predictions of the mountain in the viper duel, you still don’t understand what show you’re watching even after the red wedding, you still have hope. That’s amazing and why I love your reactions so much lol. Pure of heart
Holy shit, your reaction to Oberon dying had me in stitches, laughing. Not because im a sadist but because as a Game of Thrones fan we've all been there and seeing someone else suffer like we did somehow is quite enjoyable. Hang in there guys, yes there's more pain to come, there's some amazingly epic moments, the highs and lows in the series are like none other.
i think seeing their devastation is evidence that they love the show in the way we did. It means they're invested emotionally so when they get their hopes crushed its fun to watch as validation of our own reaction. Also, its a bit of sadism on our part.
Pedro Pascal's career just went up from here. I think maybe it was a blessing in disguise for him bc he has been the lead role in a couple of big hit shows. Just last week both Last of Us and The Mandalorian were both on air. He's lead in both. He's really big time now. No one deserves it more.
One of the most memorable deaths of GOT. Everyone really liked Oberyn. The part was great for the actor's, Pedro Pascal, career too. He got the 3 year part in Narcos following GOT.
Oh for sure! Right now I'm watching them react to GoT and ATLA, and I'm just here for her! Spartan is so cliche with his "I only really like the male heroes and their stories" attitude. Pudgey has much more range in both her interpretation and empathy and is the heart of the channel.
Speaking to Pudgeys point about Sansa remembering the lessons from Baelish, I think she also recalled Cersei's lesson that tears weren't a woman's only weapon, that what's between her legs is her best weapon. That's why she had that sly grin when she said she knew what Baelish wanted.
That is why I love this series, they do not appease you with the expected and the unexpected is not done solely to be unexpected. There is a reason behind everything and it only makes the triumph of other great characters that much better!
The way Oberyn died instantly made the character way more iconic than anything it would've achieved by remaining alive as a side character in a show with 8 different story arcs and 200 different main characters.
Sadly with these writers it's true (also how the killed of all the Dorne plot so his death literally meant nothing in the show). Alteast in the books Dorne have something more to prove.
@@Nikolas5842 Honestly I don't care that much about Dorne because I don't think Dorne would be endgame in asoiaf either. No, I don't think Victarion is Azor Ahoi and I definitely don't believe in the Quentin Martell master plan lmao. Asoiaf has so many plotlines, you cannot include all of them in a TV show. If something has to go, I'd rather it be Dorne.
Notice the running theme of a characters flaw being the cause for their deaths. Oberyns arrogance, Tywins hatred for Tyrion, Neds Honour, Robbs immaturity
To be fair to Dany, Jorah was the catalyst for her losing her husband and child. Also, HE should have been the one to tell her. That's a major secret to hide from someone who considers you their closest ally. I think Dany showed him mercy by not killing him...a lot of other leaders would have for less. One thing they don't do a great job explaining in the show vs the books about Obryn was not only did he want revenge, he wanted to go to war with the Lanisters as revenge. He needed The Mountain's confession in order to make that happen. I think Arya's laugh is a laugh at the gods. I mean, on one hand every time Clegane things he's getting paid for her, it falls apart, on the other hand, every time she's about to be reunited with family, they die. It's more of an irony laugh than a ha ha laugh.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 lol true. I mean, I think you just man up at some point and do it. ...buuuut I also see how you might keep putting that conversation off 😂
@@jasonrd316 People are like he should have told her at the beginning. But he didn't know much about her in the beginning. Then he grew to love her but by that point if I'm him I don't want to screw that up, I have a good thing going. lol Maybe he didn't want to break her heart too.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 They're right though. He should have. Best time would have probably been in the desert. He knew her well enough to upheave his life for her, he put the trust of his life in her hands, but then balked when he thought he'd lose her. That's a coward move from someone who's love struck, which we all know is his double edged sword. So yeah, we jest, but be honest with the ones you love...put your trust in the ones that confide all of theirs in you is the larger point.
@@jasonrd316 Yea but we're not in his shoes. All those experiences he went though with her and all the various situations and environments. Hell maybe he forgot about it. Most viewers themselves completely forgot about it until Tywin sent the message. When she confronted Jorah, by that point he was completely on the Dany bandwagon. The most faithful being for another ever put on screen. I mean the way they played it, it's as if the viewers and Dany were at two completely different positions. So while I get Dany, the way they went back to this, it made her come off like an asshole.
There’s a saying in writing: “kill your darlings.” It’s supposed to be a piece of advice about filtering out ideas during the creative process and not being attached to every little idea you come up with. As a result, you’re left with only your best ideas to work with. One of the little meta reasons that Game of Thrones is so great is that it uses this idea literally. It creates great characters, whom you really connect with and see as traveling on the hero’s path… and then it kills them.
It's impressive to me how people who watched (and are watching now) this show went to every moment like this with such optimism... time after time, thinking finally it was going to have the exact outcome they wanted. All the way until the end.
Vegeance consumed him yes but he was planning the downfall of Lannister by making the mountain confess about him being ordered by Tywin, to unleash a war between the Lannister and the Martell.
That's what makes GoT so special and unique. It creates great characters, makes you getting attached to them, even love them, and then rips them away from you in the most unexspected and gruesome way, leaving you devastated. Loved your reaction to Oberyn's death. The expression on Pudgey's face was priceless ❤
Oberyn's mistake is actually a very common one shown in movies and shows, waiting before making the final move. I know he had a purpose here, he wanted to make the mountain confess about Tywin's orders but that and his over confidence just got him killed. He should have just killed the mountain and got it over with, he would have received justice for his sister, nephew and niece's death.
Yeah, and if Oberyn had just killed the Mountain and Tyrion had been spared, the two of them working together would've been far more capable of doing something against Tywin and Cersei
He already did just killed The Mountain; his spear was poisoned and he already murdered him with the first blow, after it the confession was what really mattered even tho he should've been more careful.
That parting shot of the long procession of the triumphant Bolton army, with Winterfell looming in the distance already looking so dreary and lifeless, ready to welcome its new masters. A new dark chapter has begun in the North. Speaking of the North, how good was the interrogation scene in the Vale? All the Sansa-Baelish scenes are as excellent as they're creepy. Just watch Baelish's face when he says "you think you know me". Aidan Gillen plays the most convincing predator lol.
Clearly one of the best episodes of the entire show. So many important things happening. And it made finally clear the Game of Thrones curse: If you like a character he or she is most likely going to die. 🤣 At least Pedro Pascal got so famous by this that they gave him the role of Mando and Joel. 🥰
Tyrion's point in his conversation with Jaime is a kind of reflection on the transience of life and the brutality of existence. Many terrible things happen for no reason. Furthermore, there is also the consideration regarding the death of Orson, kicked by the mule almost as he did with the ants: this sort of divine justice is another theme very dear to Martin and which we have often seen in Got (for example the death of Joeffrey which happens to cheat on his wedding much like Robb's ending). But the most important thing about that scene is that Tyrion does not answer the question, which he poses to Jaime but perhaps more than anything else he poses to himself. This leaves the matter open to interpretation.
To be fair when i first watched GoT i fell for it too, time and time again😂 It’s always unpredictable who’s gonna die and you never see it coming till the last moment
George R.R. Martin definitely did his job in making you care for the characters, that’s for sure. As an aspiring fantasy author working on the editing stages of my first book, I hope to achieve the feeling in my readers that George accomplished with Ned, Oberyn, Robb, and many others. Not directly wanting readers to be sad of course 😉 just having people care about the characters and world. From the beta readers I’ve had, so far so good, but we shall see :) On a side note thanks for making me stay up 50 minutes later yet again spartan and pudgey lol
The fight was going well and pudgey had this smile on her face and I had to pause it for a minute to give her one more moment of happiness before it all became tears and shouts of "NAUR!!" 🤣🖤
Remeber when Tywin asked that fool Mace Tyrell to fetch quill and paper, well, that's the letter, Tywin destorying alliances with just letters yet again
I'm right there with you guys. I love Oberin so much. He's one of my favorite characters in the show. I was devastated when I saw this episode live & cried so much. I love to rewatch this show & when I got to this episode it took me a month to actually watch it again. I just can't handle seeing it. It breaks my heart everytime. Love you guys, keep up the great work.
So fascinating and evident how impactful the last fight and death of Oberyn was on that review. What a very upsetting and blatantly harsh moment- observing the reaction was such a real feeling; I feel bizarre myself knowing it was coming and seeing the impact and your devastation. Powerful and emotional to watch. ❤
I was happy to see Jacob Anderson playing Grey Worm got a mention for his phenomenal acting. He elevated an extremely limited role into something tender and complex. He recently played the lead in AMC's adaptation of Interview with the Vampire and seeing him let loose on a major role was really amazing.
😂🤣😂🤣. You guys' reaction before Oberyn, vs after his death, was priceless. You went from total joy to totally bummed out and it was awesome. Thank you. Oberyn couldnt help himself. He wanted to make Tywin look bad so much that he let his guard down and it cost him his life.
You guys have the best reaction channel on youtube. Nobody else has such a good balance of entertaining yet genuine reactions, and great analysis that's not too short but not too long.
Tyrion's story about the Uncle smashing bugs with a rock was not in the books. This was added by Dan&Dave, the screenwriters for GOT who were adapting the books, who were referring to GOT book-author George Martin, who in their view smashed characters like bugs but "had his reasons".
As soon as you guys got hyped for Oberyn, I'll admit a small sadistic satisfaction knowing this episode was coming up. I've pictured it whenever it's come up over the last few weeks, Spartan looking pissed while Pudgey tries to keep her jaw from hitting the floor. You guys don't disappoint. P.S. Hope you both had a fun countryside holiday!
Such of incredible character, cut too short, but what a great way to go, and a great story. Wish we could see more of him. The face of horror on pudgey sums it all up, from one minute being so confident and laughing with him to utter shock.
Lysa knew exactly how much trouble she was creating. Littlefinger told Arryn to poison her husband, she did. She also told Cat that it was the Lannisters that did it knowing that Cat would want to protect Ned from the same fate.
I mean...you have to have some sympathy for her. She's been in love with LF since she was 14? 15? years old, but he was crushing on her older sister. Lysa gives him her virginity and gets pregnant, and her dad tells her LF isn't good enough for her and forces her to have an abortion. Then he marries her to a 60 year old man (Jon Arryn was something like 20+ years older than her *own father*!!) Then she's thrown into court politics in KL as a teenager while her grandaddy of a husband serves as Hand to Robert. There is no love between them because (1) he knows she wasn't "pure" and (2) how much can a 60 year old have in common with a 15 year old? Who is there to support her? Ned and Cat have fled to Winterfell. Do you think Cersei extended her hand in friendship? To add to her sad story, she had 5 miscarriages and 2 stillbirths before she finally gave birth to Robyn. She was ripe for the pickings when Littlefinger made his way to Kings Landing.
@@Sab_MJsMama even before then, when Cat captured Tyrion and took him to the Eyrie, she could have told Cat that she lied and that she's the one who poisoned her own husband. Tyrion would have been let go, Jamie and the Lannisters wouldn't have retaliated by capturing and then later beheading Ned, Rob wouldn't have gone to war, Theon wouldn't have betrayed them, Bran and Rickon wouldn't have had to flee Winterfell, and Sansa and Arya would have been fine too. Although.... Ned would still have been investigating the Lannister children, so... he probably would have ended up in the same position and everything else would be the same, except Tyrion wouldn't have been captured by Cat
@@juliant But to her, LF _was_ her family. And not the father who forced her to have an abortion and marry an old man. Or the sister who was her father's favorite and her lover's (LF's) favorite and who was up in Winterfell living an apparently happy life with a loving marriage and 5 healthy children. LF was the person who was always there for her in KL. (In many, many ways, Lysa is a lot like Sansa. Especially at this point in the story when Sansa is just as easily falling in line with LF and his plots.)
another super episode! some rose, some fell, and the moment when Arya laughed remains unforgettable for me! a very unexpected reaction, and perfectly played.
Out of all of the shocking deaths on the show, this one is probably the most shocking. Ned and Robb you can start to see their mistakes way before they die. Even though we're used to the heroes winning in most stories there's a sense of dread as things start to go awry for them. With Ned we can start to see it after he got injured and then after he gets arrested and it's hard to imagine "How will he get out of this?" even with it being believed he'd be sent to the Wall. Robb starts to lose his men after killing Karstark, and it's mentioned many many times that him crossing Frey was a bad decision. Oberyn though is so quick that you don't really have time to think about him actually losing, even though Bronn foreshadows this exact thing. It is also very obviously playing with the "My name is Inigo Montoya" from The Princess Bride with Oberyn constantly repeating The Mountain's crimes as he fights. It's priming you both consciously (Oberyn legitimately winning) and subconsciously (Paralleling a famous, heroic, piece of media) and it's ripped away in seconds without giving you time to fully process what in the world is happening. It's brilliant, and infuriating at the same time.
Something to keep in mind about Missandei and Grey worms romance, the juxtaposition of their arcs is fantastic. Both slaves pretty much from childhood. lowborn, and shackled for their entire lives. But at the same time, grey worm is an incredibly gifted fighter even among an army of 8000 strong. THe unsullied are like machines in skill and fortitude. Meanwhile shes more well versed in over a dozen languages, smarter than a vast majority of the worlds population. Her brains and his skill, both layered under never getting to truely express themselves. Its a beautiful story for the two of them.
So just because good character's die does not mean that it's bad storytelling. It's called being invested in the show and the characters. It's a good thing that you were hurt that oberyn died especially in the way he died. I was hurt too but it doesn't mean it's wasted character... Sometimes when a really great character dies it causes a cascade effect of other incidents and things happening that will keep things interesting down the road and that's. How ned has stayed alive through basically the entire season even when he's not there.. But almost everything that has happened since ned was executed has been a result of the execution of ned stark...
32:30 I love how Pudgey's reaction to Pycells "this uhm ... uh ... maaan Tyrion Lannister" is exactly the same as Addie's from Dan Worrell's channel ;)
Whatever people say, they felt the same as you when it first happened. It's just that they've had a lot of time to come to terms with it, and see the overall story arc. But when we first saw it, we all felt devastated.
I think they sent the hand letter that Robert wrote but didn’t get to send as he died, as a way to weaken Dani’s allies as Jorah has been with her since the start
I believe its a new letter written by Tywin in the last episode, when he asked Varys if his "little birds can find their way into Mereen" and told Mace Tyrell to "fetch my quill and ink". Jorah already received the original pardon in season 1
I've been WAITING for these last few episodes of Season 4. They are the peak of the entire show, in my opinion. It never gets better than this. Perfect television--just perfect. Grey Worm (the actor) is FANASTIC on the new Interview with the Vampire.
What I always got from Tyrions story is how he feels about the Lannister’s and their love of power and killing. Even though his cousin was slow, he was still a Lannister and still a killer.
Ah, the classic tale of David and Goliath, if written by George R.R. Martin. 💀 Anyway, even though it's upsetting Oberyn lost, the genius of this series is being grounded to realism and crushing fairytale conceptions. Just like irl, no one really has a plot armor. As Sandor have said in the books, "life isn't a song" or life isn't happy stories.
Tbh, that Grey Worm's speach makes me sad. It's clear that he still is a slave. Yes, he has been freed, but he was slave all his life and in his mind he still is. Sure, Dany is not a cruel slave master, but unsullied didn't have a chance to learn to think like a free men. So their only choice and only think that gives meaning to their lives is to do what she says.
Didn’t she offer the entire Unsullied army the chance to leave once she acquired them? None of them were shown to have left. She did the same thing with the Dothraki after Drogo died, and at Yunkai when she was waiting outside the city gates for the people who chose freedom. Shows a pretty consistent pattern for her from a narrative standpoint.
It is like telling a freshly rescued malnourished and uneducated child, who spent their entire life in a room, that they can be a mountain climber. While free, they know nothing about their options, let alone mountain climbing.
The reason for George R.R. Martin to kill off such good characters, even though they could have been developed more, is his self-confidence as a writer and his respect for good drama. He knows that he can create new good characters and give them good or even better character arcs. And the main goal for him (and that I do respect) is to tell an unpredictable story, like the real life works, so to speak. So many plots have died out with character deaths, like in real life. So much uncertainty, like in real life. He wants to give us something else than the streamlined “Hollywood script”. That’s why I love (and hate) even the deaths of my beloved characters as Ned, Rob, Oberyn and so forth.
44:55 Littlefinger's weakness is not Catelyn. If it was, she would have convinced him to help Ned & Robb win the war against the Lannisters. You were so close, Pudgey. It's so obvious what LF's weakness is.
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![ARGENTINA vs. BOLIVIA [6-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C3wPtKNbAOA/mqdefault.jpg)
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Considering the queens normal reaction which is death to all who are against me,she was quite merciful to Jorah.
Probably because he did do a lot for her
Allowed him to leave.
The last person who betrayed her got entombed in a vault as punishment.
I said it once, I'll say it again. " If you're expecting a happy ending, you're watching the wrong show. " That being said, get that popcorn 🍿 ready , sit back, and enjoy the battle at the WALL. Oh baby, are you guys in for a treat. It's one of my all-time favorite episodes. The Watchers on the Wall !! Can't wait to see the look on your faces. Enjoy
Knowing what was going to happen and still screamed out "FINISH HIM"😫😫😫
You guys win the award for your, most emotional ARC, in less than a minute. Elation-dejection. Haha
in the rules of arena oberyn lost when he lost his 1st spear, noone allows gladiators to quickly get another weapoin of stop fight go to blacksmith and forge another one :D thats why hoplomacus carried dagger on this case
It happened because Oberyn cared more about avenging his sister than saving Tyrion; but also, there was a nice bit of foreshadowing of this last episode. Bronn literally explained why you don't fight the Mountain, because even if he could knock him off his feet, get him vulnerable, all it would take is one misstep and he'd be dead.
Bronn might be the only smart one in the entire show
@@Fett411 Yes seriously, everyone mentions Tywin, Varys, Olenna, Tyrion, Baelish, etc when talking about the smartest players of the Game of Thrones, but Bronn might unironically be the best one.
@@Fett411 The only reason people don't put Bronn in the same category as Tywin, Tyrion, Olenna, etc, is because he never actually challenges them intellectually, he never tests his wits against anybody.
EXACTLY! This fight made me realize something that an ASOIAF podcast pointed out when analyzing this very chapter, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons won't lead you on the same path as doing it for the right reasons. It was not about Tyrion for Oberyn. Had it been, he would have won.
yeah i mean killing the mountain without confession would mean literally nothing to dorne, just because the reader likes tyrion why should oberyn act different?
Oberyn and Ned played in less than a season but they're both are one of the most memorable charachters!they both had great castings
Yup. And Droggo.
ned of course bcs his death was the reason all of these wars started
@@mcmullin05 And Theon. Wait -
wouldnt compare oberyn to ned, but he certainly made an impression
You just cant go wrong with Pedro and Sean!... I've loved Sean Beans acting for years, only downside when I see him is that I already know that his character (almost always) gonna die sooner or later xD Dx
Oberyn wanted Mountain's confession so much because he wanted him to admit that Tywin was the one who gave order to kill Elia, so Dorne could stand against Lannisters openly
This should be pinned. Some people forgot the politics behind his decisions.
And he already had killed The Mountain with his poisoned spear.
it was intensely personal
The show completely glossed over it
Exactly, he was gonna kill him one way or another. He was dead from the time he cut him. What Oberyn really wanted was a confession. And he got it.
I hate it when people say that Oberyn was gloating instead of finishing off The Mountain. Yes, he was a show-off, but he was not gloating or just being arrogant. He just wanted the Mountain to confess and name Tywin, because that was literally his purpose in coming to King's Landing. He was after Tywin, and if the Mountain dies, then he could never prove his involvement in Elia's murder.
Yes, but he could have stayed out of reach and just tickle the Mountain with his spear
@@kidgforce1 that makes him clumsy/careless, not gloating/arrogant though.
Yes.
@@kidgforce1 You think he would get a confession from a distance while tickling him with his spear? lol
@@kidgforce1 Yes, but you don’t know what gloating or arrogance are.
Yk, it's kind of funny how even after Ned's execution, even after the Red Wedding, we still thought that Oberyn would live in such anticlimactic scenario.
They can’t kill off all of our favorites, can they!? 😅 They’re super important to the plot, right!? Right!?
By the 3rd season I had a running joke with my friends. A common theme in the show in talking about the characters would generally involve someone saying, 'I really love this charact.....oh he's dead' 🥺. There are many exceptions but the ones in the general rule stand out more.
Becouse we hope they won't do it again, it's time for some justice, but ...
@@8293nokinho
It really is a testament to the show (and books) that they manage to pull this same exact trick off multiple times
@@Crinbo Yea, they gave us all we want to see, someone to stood up, a hero, and then they brutaly took it from us.
To quote Ramsay, "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."
Now, now, this isn't completely over, Oberyn's the Red VIPER, remember?
Poison was his whole game, let's see how the Mountain handles those spear cuts."
Facts ! Pin this comment!!!!!
I keep having to repeat this every time they rage over the story not going the way they think.
S8 would like a word with you
You've just won the originality award. NOT!!!
“I’ve always hated the bells. They ring for horror.” -Varys
mm mm mm.
This show is fkn sick
*maniacal laughter
not for surrender
@@BhBc8f8 Davos even says it during the Battle of the Blackwater. "I've never known bells to mean surrender."
I see what you did there
💀💀
Oberyn really broke my heart. He was consumed with vengeance for his sister and her children, that it killed him too in the end. This was one of the worst moments of the show for me (even though I read the book and knew it was coming). In a short space of time, we grew to love Oberyn, cheered for him, and then lost him so quickly and awfully.
"This show, dude..."
LOL, that sums it up. NEVER love a character, it will just break your heart.
Oberyn watched the Princess Bride one to many times and couldn't shut up with his vow of vengeance and just kill him.
Oberyn should have done his job and he had the chance to. His obsession killed him.
Oberyn was a great character and he would have won this battle was it not for him being too consumed with his feelings and need for vengeance and doing what so many others before him have lost for.. talking too much v_v
If he just delivered the finishing blow without the need of a confession he would have won and it still makes me so upset ;__;
Oberyn was a phenomenal character. Very brave, very colorful, and very smart. And like most of the other smart characters we've seen in this show, he made a stupid mistake which ended up costing him everything.
When I look back at it, Oberyn's death was horrifyingly brutal. Seeing a confident and experienced warrior getting his eyes pushed in while he is screaming his head off, really does something to you.
His death was one of the most brutal TV deaths I've ever seen. The fact a death like this happened to such a badass & charismatic character makes it so much worse.
The trick is in the contrast: a moment ago he was confident, funny, a living soul; 5 seconds later he is scared, helpless, a pile of meat to be crushed......
It's the screams more than anything.
@@che9218 So much more real than other shows in this sense. My father a combat veteran says there are no bad asses, only dead heroes.
Seeing all the teeth fly out got to me first time I watched it, crazy detail and even worse in the books says they were shattered in his mouth. I think Biter vs Brienne in the books was a little more brutal though.
I think Arya was laughing hysterically at least partly because of the Hound's expression of disbelief. Twice now he's taken her to relatives to ransom her, only to be denied each time. It's like Fate is conspiring to deny him his money at this point!
When Pudgey was laugh crying after the Red Wedding, it made me think of Arya in this episode. Lol
pretty obvious really
Exactly lol. Arya was just basking in the utter irony of the situation.
Yeah Arya didn't really know her aunt Lysa very well (or at all?), so it wasn't a grief reaction. She just finds it hilarious that the Hound has had this happen to him twice now.
Fun fact, Pedro Pascal was actually asleep in the scene where his head was being crushed in (outside of the screaming scenes obviously). The blood and guts that he had on his face were so cooling on the hot day and the actor for the Mountain was so gentle that he legit fell asleep xD
You watched Hot Ones, didn’t you? 😛
@@scottisitt it was a good episode lol
lol i saw that on Hot Ones, Pedro is such a cool guy
@@scottisitt it was actually in another interview where he said that too ^^
@@blinkachu5275 Fair enough 🙂
Oberyn needed the mountain to name Tywin as the man who gave the order so Dorne had a casus belli against the crown, he couldnt just kill him.
Do you guys remember what Bronn said last episode when Tyrion wanted Bronn to fight for him? , all it takes is one misstep and you’re laying on your back which is exactly what happened to Oberyn
That emotional 180° drift within a single minute was utterly priceless to watch. :D
I felt like Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels in Dumb and Dumber watching the "gas man" eat that hamburger!!
I've gone back and watched it a few times 😆
I feel like such a psycho because I loved seeing them so excited at first so shocked during and then so mad after, I was laughing to myself knowing that was me in the exact same position feeling the exact same emotions when I first watched it.
@@infiad1275 lol!
@@remuslupin6460 🤫😁
The Bear and the Maiden Fair isn't actually about Brienne, it's a traditional folk song in Westeros. Brienne's captors just sang it as a joke when they put her in to fight with the bear.
The song is about brute men being a danger to the physically weaker women. Could also interpret it symbolically as the men dominating in society. Briennes story often angles on how women navigate a mans world. Singing the song was mocking her and “putting her in her place”
Also, in the episode title "the bear and the maiden fair", it is implied that Jaime is the fair maiden, while Brienne is the bear
It's actually about Ser Jorah, and his wife, Lynesse Hightower.
@@ernaminten4227 Also It sort of reflect the story of Jaime right there with him being put in a danger by this woman by showing chevalry both times.
@@apeflight5553 well he rescued her in the pit, he can't be the maiden. lol
Jorah's biggest mistake was that he never fessed up. It's hard to fully trust someone who was never fully honest with you. The viewer knows that it's been a long time and Jorah has renounced his past of spying for the crown, but for Dany it's the first time she's hearing about all this. She justifiably feels betrayed and that she can't trust him anymore. It was a great chess move on Tywin's part to send them a copy of King Robert's original pardon to Jorah.
yeah, and we have to remember she doesn't have as much knowledge as we have as well
we can see jorah still means well as the audience
she can't
because he sold dany's secrets even of her baby, she would have a hard time trusting him especially when she heard it from a letter and not himself (like you said)
Exactly. Laughed so hard when they said "it's brutal" lol what? She literally let him go, it's not brutal it's actually mercy at this point.
Oberyn's death is most definitely not "a waste". Unlike all the other cookie-cutter fantasy books/shows, GoT is all about realistic consequences (and that's why people loved it so much). Ed, Rob, Oberyn, these are not wasted characters, they are characters that don't manage to magically escape the consequences of their own mistakes or character traits with the help of plot armor and/or some contrived deus ex machina bullshit.
okay but there is plot armor for other characters its just that these deaths move the story. lowkey the mountain still being alive is some plot armor shit. but it is okay bc it is fiction lol
@@officialyoungmari quick question, is the mountain alive in the books?
Well said
@@prestonwuvsyou990 Haven't read the books but I do read extensive book spoilers on the ASOIAF website and the best answer is "kind of".
@@prestonwuvsyou990 It's very unclear.
Oberyn's death is always soul crushing, he was so close to avenging his family! Pride always comes before the fall.
But he indeed avenged family
Joel Miller gonna avenge him
Crushing definitely
He did avenged his family, he already killed The Mountain with his first blow, the spear was poisoned that's why he was so careless.
@@marcusanark2541 He also wanted Tywin brought to justice and so needed The Mountain's confession more than his death.
Pudgys reactions when she is shocked and heartbroken at a crazy GOT moment are fucking hilarious lol I love this channel
Oberyn wanted to hear Tywin confess (or the mountain) so he could have started a war.
so he made him confess at the end but he didnt say who ordered him to right *?
Oberyn’s death was the one in the entire show all 8 seasons… that annoyed me the most.. easily my favourite character and had so much that could’ve been developed.
28:24 Aryas loud echoing giggle is my favourite part about this episode everyone was so confused and she was just laughing at the hounds bad luck , i don’t blame her it was too ironic at this point I would also get sent like that 😂 it was super relatable!
Poor Pudgey, you can tell that ending really got to her. My sweet summer child, even after the red wedding this is still Game of Thrones
Arya laughing after finding out that Lysa died is literally Pudgey cry-laughing after every good character dying
Theon wasn't hinting his men at getting help because if he wanted help he would've escaped with Yara. At this point he's given up to Ramsey and completely lost his mind and pride.
he hasn't lost his mind, he's traumatized.
@@Lightning_Lance and what is trauma known to do? Make people lose their minds....
Moron.
@@Lightning_LanceRight. Theon is still in there just buried deep for his survival.
He was on the verge of turning back into Reek before he was saved by the ̶b̶e̶l̶l̶ hammer.
I will never forget reading this scene in the book. When he stabs the Mountain I jumped out of my chair out of excitement, I turned the page, and I just sunk to the floor from crushing sadness. George, like many twists in the series, wrote it perfectly. The show does a great job of translating that feeling. You have your doubt that anything good can happen and they push it up to the edge so far that for a second you believe he won, and then comes the most brutal death in the show. Great reaction as always!
LolWith your predictions of the mountain in the viper duel, you still don’t understand what show you’re watching even after the red wedding, you still have hope. That’s amazing and why I love your reactions so much lol. Pure of heart
Holy shit, your reaction to Oberon dying had me in stitches, laughing. Not because im a sadist but because as a Game of Thrones fan we've all been there and seeing someone else suffer like we did somehow is quite enjoyable. Hang in there guys, yes there's more pain to come, there's some amazingly epic moments, the highs and lows in the series are like none other.
i think seeing their devastation is evidence that they love the show in the way we did. It means they're invested emotionally so when they get their hopes crushed its fun to watch as validation of our own reaction. Also, its a bit of sadism on our part.
Same lmao
For me it’s the sadism 😂
it’s how we process our own grief
Spartan: not this again!
Pudgey: NAUR!!!
Pedro Pascal's career just went up from here. I think maybe it was a blessing in disguise for him bc he has been the lead role in a couple of big hit shows. Just last week both Last of Us and The Mandalorian were both on air. He's lead in both. He's really big time now. No one deserves it more.
One of the most memorable deaths of GOT. Everyone really liked Oberyn.
The part was great for the actor's, Pedro Pascal, career too. He got the 3 year part in Narcos following GOT.
Making it into Pudgey’s love list is like the kiss of death for GoT.
I also just enjoy how Spartan is always wrong 🤣🤣🤣
Come on man he's not always wrong give him a break he's probably at 40%
some have called me the magic 8 ball, so ya better put some respect on my name!
I'm Team Pudgey, she gets things so quickly and correctly
Pudgey & Sophie 🥰🥰
Oh for sure! Right now I'm watching them react to GoT and ATLA, and I'm just here for her! Spartan is so cliche with his "I only really like the male heroes and their stories" attitude. Pudgey has much more range in both her interpretation and empathy and is the heart of the channel.
Speaking to Pudgeys point about Sansa remembering the lessons from Baelish, I think she also recalled Cersei's lesson that tears weren't a woman's only weapon, that what's between her legs is her best weapon. That's why she had that sly grin when she said she knew what Baelish wanted.
But she did use "tears".
@@manvirshergill1739 yeh but cersei said not their ONLY weapon
Shouts to George RR. When you can create so many amazing character arcs, and it doesn't even matter.
Pudgey is missing Jaqen so much that she is inventing quotes he said 😂
That is why I love this series, they do not appease you with the expected and the unexpected is not done solely to be unexpected. There is a reason behind everything and it only makes the triumph of other great characters that much better!
The way Oberyn died instantly made the character way more iconic than anything it would've achieved by remaining alive as a side character in a show with 8 different story arcs and 200 different main characters.
Sadly with these writers it's true (also how the killed of all the Dorne plot so his death literally meant nothing in the show). Alteast in the books Dorne have something more to prove.
@@Nikolas5842 Honestly I don't care that much about Dorne because I don't think Dorne would be endgame in asoiaf either. No, I don't think Victarion is Azor Ahoi and I definitely don't believe in the Quentin Martell master plan lmao. Asoiaf has so many plotlines, you cannot include all of them in a TV show. If something has to go, I'd rather it be Dorne.
Notice the running theme of a characters flaw being the cause for their deaths. Oberyns arrogance, Tywins hatred for Tyrion, Neds Honour, Robbs immaturity
Ned's honour isn't a character flaw tho
@@damianxavier7343 It’s a positive in many ways, but a negative for him too
@@damianxavier7343 it is tho, there is honor, and there is stupid honor, he had the latter one
Spartan looks just as devastated in the thumbnail as I was when this happened. I gotta see this. lol I feel your pain, brother.
To be fair to Dany, Jorah was the catalyst for her losing her husband and child. Also, HE should have been the one to tell her. That's a major secret to hide from someone who considers you their closest ally. I think Dany showed him mercy by not killing him...a lot of other leaders would have for less.
One thing they don't do a great job explaining in the show vs the books about Obryn was not only did he want revenge, he wanted to go to war with the Lanisters as revenge. He needed The Mountain's confession in order to make that happen.
I think Arya's laugh is a laugh at the gods. I mean, on one hand every time Clegane things he's getting paid for her, it falls apart, on the other hand, every time she's about to be reunited with family, they die. It's more of an irony laugh than a ha ha laugh.
To be fair to him though, how on Earth do you announce that to Dany? lol
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 lol true. I mean, I think you just man up at some point and do it. ...buuuut I also see how you might keep putting that conversation off 😂
@@jasonrd316 People are like he should have told her at the beginning. But he didn't know much about her in the beginning. Then he grew to love her but by that point if I'm him I don't want to screw that up, I have a good thing going. lol Maybe he didn't want to break her heart too.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 They're right though. He should have. Best time would have probably been in the desert. He knew her well enough to upheave his life for her, he put the trust of his life in her hands, but then balked when he thought he'd lose her. That's a coward move from someone who's love struck, which we all know is his double edged sword. So yeah, we jest, but be honest with the ones you love...put your trust in the ones that confide all of theirs in you is the larger point.
@@jasonrd316 Yea but we're not in his shoes. All those experiences he went though with her and all the various situations and environments. Hell maybe he forgot about it. Most viewers themselves completely forgot about it until Tywin sent the message. When she confronted Jorah, by that point he was completely on the Dany bandwagon. The most faithful being for another ever put on screen. I mean the way they played it, it's as if the viewers and Dany were at two completely different positions. So while I get Dany, the way they went back to this, it made her come off like an asshole.
There’s a saying in writing: “kill your darlings.” It’s supposed to be a piece of advice about filtering out ideas during the creative process and not being attached to every little idea you come up with. As a result, you’re left with only your best ideas to work with.
One of the little meta reasons that Game of Thrones is so great is that it uses this idea literally. It creates great characters, whom you really connect with and see as traveling on the hero’s path… and then it kills them.
Pudgey starting to laugh when Oberyn died...doing her best imitation of Arya at the Vail. hahahahaha!!!
It's impressive to me how people who watched (and are watching now) this show went to every moment like this with such optimism... time after time, thinking finally it was going to have the exact outcome they wanted. All the way until the end.
I was so pissed at Oberyn. The more he talked and tried to get a confession, the more that feeling of dread came over me.
Vegeance consumed him yes but he was planning the downfall of Lannister by making the mountain confess about him being ordered by Tywin, to unleash a war between the Lannister and the Martell.
@Velshin Good plan, better done from a few feet away! 😄
That's what makes GoT so special and unique. It creates great characters, makes you getting attached to them, even love them, and then rips them away from you in the most unexspected and gruesome way, leaving you devastated.
Loved your reaction to Oberyn's death. The expression on Pudgey's face was priceless ❤
Oberyn's mistake is actually a very common one shown in movies and shows, waiting before making the final move. I know he had a purpose here, he wanted to make the mountain confess about Tywin's orders but that and his over confidence just got him killed. He should have just killed the mountain and got it over with, he would have received justice for his sister, nephew and niece's death.
"You sly dog, you got me monologuing! I can't believe it!"
Yeah, and if Oberyn had just killed the Mountain and Tyrion had been spared, the two of them working together would've been far more capable of doing something against Tywin and Cersei
It’s like Voldemort telling Harry Potter “I’m going to kill you now” like just do it? And all your problems are solved
He already did just killed The Mountain; his spear was poisoned and he already murdered him with the first blow, after it the confession was what really mattered even tho he should've been more careful.
@@Sadsharks But once The Mountain is dead, there's no way to pin Elia's death on Tywin.
Spartan today is so on point! I like his compassion with Jorah.
32:20 I will never get used to pudgey reaction at the mere sight of sneaky snake Pycell makes my stomach ache with laughtet😂😂
That parting shot of the long procession of the triumphant Bolton army, with Winterfell looming in the distance already looking so dreary and lifeless, ready to welcome its new masters. A new dark chapter has begun in the North. Speaking of the North, how good was the interrogation scene in the Vale? All the Sansa-Baelish scenes are as excellent as they're creepy. Just watch Baelish's face when he says "you think you know me". Aidan Gillen plays the most convincing predator lol.
LMAO so funny seeing the hope leave your faces during the trial by combat 😂
Clearly one of the best episodes of the entire show. So many important things happening. And it made finally clear the Game of Thrones curse: If you like a character he or she is most likely going to die. 🤣 At least Pedro Pascal got so famous by this that they gave him the role of Mando and Joel. 🥰
Tyrion's point in his conversation with Jaime is a kind of reflection on the transience of life and the brutality of existence. Many terrible things happen for no reason. Furthermore, there is also the consideration regarding the death of Orson, kicked by the mule almost as he did with the ants: this sort of divine justice is another theme very dear to Martin and which we have often seen in Got (for example the death of Joeffrey which happens to cheat on his wedding much like Robb's ending). But the most important thing about that scene is that Tyrion does not answer the question, which he poses to Jaime but perhaps more than anything else he poses to himself. This leaves the matter open to interpretation.
These two never learn. Their excitement was hilarious.😂😂😂
To be fair when i first watched GoT i fell for it too, time and time again😂 It’s always unpredictable who’s gonna die and you never see it coming till the last moment
@@xoluciaxo_3721 You and I both.😂
36:33 "I shouldn't even be surprised at this point..."
dude, you really shouldn't 😆
George R.R. Martin definitely did his job in making you care for the characters, that’s for sure.
As an aspiring fantasy author working on the editing stages of my first book, I hope to achieve the feeling in my readers that George accomplished with Ned, Oberyn, Robb, and many others. Not directly wanting readers to be sad of course 😉 just having people care about the characters and world.
From the beta readers I’ve had, so far so good, but we shall see :)
On a side note thanks for making me stay up 50 minutes later yet again spartan and pudgey lol
Good luck with the writing and editing.
@@Denbot_is_here Thanks! Planning to finish revising in the next month or two, get some more feedback, and then start trying to get published. 👌
The fight was going well and pudgey had this smile on her face and I had to pause it for a minute to give her one more moment of happiness before it all became tears and shouts of "NAUR!!" 🤣🖤
My reaction for Oberyn death was utter shock (surprisingly..) and then pure rage. I was wtf-ing all day long after watching this episode.
My favorite interaction in this episode is the one between Grey Worm and Missandei, it's so deeply human and heartwarming
Love how you guys instantly noticed how Sansa tried to look like her mom when disguising.
Remeber when Tywin asked that fool Mace Tyrell to fetch quill and paper, well, that's the letter, Tywin destorying alliances with just letters yet again
I love watching Spartan’s predictions. He always looks for the storybook outcome and then it turns to GOT everytime 😂. It makes for great reactions
Notice; Tyrion gave him the advice to better wear a helmet. So in his later role as the Mandalorian he never took it off.
Oberyn was such a cool character. They need to do a series about him and his adventures.
I'm right there with you guys. I love Oberin so much. He's one of my favorite characters in the show. I was devastated when I saw this episode live & cried so much. I love to rewatch this show & when I got to this episode it took me a month to actually watch it again. I just can't handle seeing it. It breaks my heart everytime. Love you guys, keep up the great work.
So fascinating and evident how impactful the last fight and death of Oberyn was on that review. What a very upsetting and blatantly harsh moment- observing the reaction was such a real feeling; I feel bizarre myself knowing it was coming and seeing the impact and your devastation. Powerful and emotional to watch. ❤
"this show dude" ahhhh the memories of saying that so many times
I was happy to see Jacob Anderson playing Grey Worm got a mention for his phenomenal acting. He elevated an extremely limited role into something tender and complex.
He recently played the lead in AMC's adaptation of Interview with the Vampire and seeing him let loose on a major role was really amazing.
😂🤣😂🤣. You guys' reaction before Oberyn, vs after his death, was priceless. You went from total joy to totally bummed out and it was awesome. Thank you.
Oberyn couldnt help himself. He wanted to make Tywin look bad so much that he let his guard down and it cost him his life.
You guys have the best reaction channel on youtube. Nobody else has such a good balance of entertaining yet genuine reactions, and great analysis that's not too short but not too long.
Thank you! ❤❤
another neat theory I _think_ is 100% true is that Sweet Robin is actually Little Finger's secret son.
Lol! She is always crying and then he’s always pissed! 😂😂
Tyrion's story about the Uncle smashing bugs with a rock was not in the books. This was added by Dan&Dave, the screenwriters for GOT who were adapting the books, who were referring to GOT book-author George Martin, who in their view smashed characters like bugs but "had his reasons".
This episode rocked my world when I first watched it. Oberyn's death hit me harder than any other, I thought of him for weeks. The WHAT IF.
As soon as you guys got hyped for Oberyn, I'll admit a small sadistic satisfaction knowing this episode was coming up. I've pictured it whenever it's come up over the last few weeks, Spartan looking pissed while Pudgey tries to keep her jaw from hitting the floor.
You guys don't disappoint.
P.S. Hope you both had a fun countryside holiday!
Such of incredible character, cut too short, but what a great way to go, and a great story. Wish we could see more of him. The face of horror on pudgey sums it all up, from one minute being so confident and laughing with him to utter shock.
Lysa knew exactly how much trouble she was creating. Littlefinger told Arryn to poison her husband, she did. She also told Cat that it was the Lannisters that did it knowing that Cat would want to protect Ned from the same fate.
I mean...you have to have some sympathy for her. She's been in love with LF since she was 14? 15? years old, but he was crushing on her older sister. Lysa gives him her virginity and gets pregnant, and her dad tells her LF isn't good enough for her and forces her to have an abortion. Then he marries her to a 60 year old man (Jon Arryn was something like 20+ years older than her *own father*!!)
Then she's thrown into court politics in KL as a teenager while her grandaddy of a husband serves as Hand to Robert. There is no love between them because (1) he knows she wasn't "pure" and (2) how much can a 60 year old have in common with a 15 year old?
Who is there to support her? Ned and Cat have fled to Winterfell.
Do you think Cersei extended her hand in friendship?
To add to her sad story, she had 5 miscarriages and 2 stillbirths before she finally gave birth to Robyn.
She was ripe for the pickings when Littlefinger made his way to Kings Landing.
@@Sab_MJsMama even before then, when Cat captured Tyrion and took him to the Eyrie, she could have told Cat that she lied and that she's the one who poisoned her own husband. Tyrion would have been let go, Jamie and the Lannisters wouldn't have retaliated by capturing and then later beheading Ned, Rob wouldn't have gone to war, Theon wouldn't have betrayed them, Bran and Rickon wouldn't have had to flee Winterfell, and Sansa and Arya would have been fine too. Although.... Ned would still have been investigating the Lannister children, so... he probably would have ended up in the same position and everything else would be the same, except Tyrion wouldn't have been captured by Cat
@@jcompton8507 that is a sad life... but to betray her family in the way that she did, all for Littlefinger is unforgiveable to me.
@@juliant But to her, LF _was_ her family.
And not the father who forced her to have an abortion and marry an old man. Or the sister who was her father's favorite and her lover's (LF's) favorite and who was up in Winterfell living an apparently happy life with a loving marriage and 5 healthy children.
LF was the person who was always there for her in KL.
(In many, many ways, Lysa is a lot like Sansa. Especially at this point in the story when Sansa is just as easily falling in line with LF and his plots.)
@@jcompton8507 : interesting. I have never thought about it this way.🤔
another super episode! some rose, some fell, and the moment when Arya laughed remains unforgettable for me! a very unexpected reaction, and perfectly played.
Out of all of the shocking deaths on the show, this one is probably the most shocking. Ned and Robb you can start to see their mistakes way before they die. Even though we're used to the heroes winning in most stories there's a sense of dread as things start to go awry for them. With Ned we can start to see it after he got injured and then after he gets arrested and it's hard to imagine "How will he get out of this?" even with it being believed he'd be sent to the Wall. Robb starts to lose his men after killing Karstark, and it's mentioned many many times that him crossing Frey was a bad decision. Oberyn though is so quick that you don't really have time to think about him actually losing, even though Bronn foreshadows this exact thing. It is also very obviously playing with the "My name is Inigo Montoya" from The Princess Bride with Oberyn constantly repeating The Mountain's crimes as he fights. It's priming you both consciously (Oberyn legitimately winning) and subconsciously (Paralleling a famous, heroic, piece of media) and it's ripped away in seconds without giving you time to fully process what in the world is happening. It's brilliant, and infuriating at the same time.
Something to keep in mind about Missandei and Grey worms romance, the juxtaposition of their arcs is fantastic. Both slaves pretty much from childhood. lowborn, and shackled for their entire lives. But at the same time, grey worm is an incredibly gifted fighter even among an army of 8000 strong. THe unsullied are like machines in skill and fortitude. Meanwhile shes more well versed in over a dozen languages, smarter than a vast majority of the worlds population. Her brains and his skill, both layered under never getting to truely express themselves. Its a beautiful story for the two of them.
So just because good character's die does not mean that it's bad storytelling. It's called being invested in the show and the characters. It's a good thing that you were hurt that oberyn died especially in the way he died. I was hurt too but it doesn't mean it's wasted character... Sometimes when a really great character dies it causes a cascade effect of other incidents and things happening that will keep things interesting down the road and that's. How ned has stayed alive through basically the entire season even when he's not there.. But almost everything that has happened since ned was executed has been a result of the execution of ned stark...
32:30 I love how Pudgey's reaction to Pycells "this uhm ... uh ... maaan Tyrion Lannister" is exactly the same as Addie's from Dan Worrell's channel ;)
Whatever people say, they felt the same as you when it first happened. It's just that they've had a lot of time to come to terms with it, and see the overall story arc. But when we first saw it, we all felt devastated.
Seeing your reaction is like, "Yeah, they didn't learn much from the Red Wedding, did they?" 😅🤣
I think they sent the hand letter that Robert wrote but didn’t get to send as he died, as a way to weaken Dani’s allies as Jorah has been with her since the start
I believe its a new letter written by Tywin in the last episode, when he asked Varys if his "little birds can find their way into Mereen" and told Mace Tyrell to "fetch my quill and ink". Jorah already received the original pardon in season 1
@@Greeny1308 oh ok fair enough I just thought Tywin sent it to cause devotion to cause dani as Jorah was her most trusted
@@millieboon it was the exact reason. Divide and conquer is Tywin's MO
The beatles talk between tyrion and Jamie is referring the mountain, talking about who he is and why he does what he does.
I've been WAITING for these last few episodes of Season 4. They are the peak of the entire show, in my opinion. It never gets better than this. Perfect television--just perfect.
Grey Worm (the actor) is FANASTIC on the new Interview with the Vampire.
What I always got from Tyrions story is how he feels about the Lannister’s and their love of power and killing. Even though his cousin was slow, he was still a Lannister and still a killer.
I really enjoyed watching your journey through GoT. I've been through it 5 or 6 times but vicariously enjoying with you guys has been a lot of fun!
I love watching their reactions when I know something terrible is going to happen 🤣🤣🤣
watching y'all get your hopes up time and time again that justice will be served in this show is too funny i'm sorry i love these reactions sm
Ah, the classic tale of David and Goliath, if written by George R.R. Martin. 💀
Anyway, even though it's upsetting Oberyn lost, the genius of this series is being grounded to realism and crushing fairytale conceptions. Just like irl, no one really has a plot armor. As Sandor have said in the books, "life isn't a song" or life isn't happy stories.
Hearing a man like Oberyn scream even though he was fully ready for battle shows you how much pain he was in, it just hits different. Great actor
Is anyone else excited for their reactions to the later sadder episodes or just me 😂
Yes 😂
Yeeeeeeeeeeees! Lol
Me too lol, they will be sobbing like we all did :D
I have a feeling they'll end the show at some point after of those, one particular one
They aren't often enough...
George is a great writer. When the show purely adapted and casted the story we got this brilliance
Tbh, that Grey Worm's speach makes me sad. It's clear that he still is a slave. Yes, he has been freed, but he was slave all his life and in his mind he still is. Sure, Dany is not a cruel slave master, but unsullied didn't have a chance to learn to think like a free men. So their only choice and only think that gives meaning to their lives is to do what she says.
Didn’t she offer the entire Unsullied army the chance to leave once she acquired them? None of them were shown to have left. She did the same thing with the Dothraki after Drogo died, and at Yunkai when she was waiting outside the city gates for the people who chose freedom. Shows a pretty consistent pattern for her from a narrative standpoint.
It is like telling a freshly rescued malnourished and uneducated child, who spent their entire life in a room, that they can be a mountain climber. While free, they know nothing about their options, let alone mountain climbing.
"nauurr". I love aussies😂 oberyn was one of my favorite characters
The reason for George R.R. Martin to kill off such good characters, even though they could have been developed more, is his self-confidence as a writer and his respect for good drama.
He knows that he can create new good characters and give them good or even better character arcs. And the main goal for him (and that I do respect) is to tell an unpredictable story, like the real life works, so to speak. So many plots have died out with character deaths, like in real life. So much uncertainty, like in real life. He wants to give us something else than the streamlined “Hollywood script”. That’s why I love (and hate) even the deaths of my beloved characters as Ned, Rob, Oberyn and so forth.
⚜️ You both went right back to being Sweet Summer Children, wtf is wrong with you two?! 😂
44:55 Littlefinger's weakness is not Catelyn. If it was, she would have convinced him to help Ned & Robb win the war against the Lannisters. You were so close, Pudgey. It's so obvious what LF's weakness is.