I really liked the themes. They did stand out to me as simpler than previous work, but my take on that is it allows development as the series progresses. And it makes the music more recognisable. I just thought this was intentional.
This theme has grown on me as I’ve been listening to it a lot. It’s both melancholic, with those minor chords, and heroic - like the Jedi it was written for at this stage of his life.
I love this new concept of making "analysis" videos Mattia, please make more of it! I personally love Obi Wan's theme and not just because I'm a big fan of John Williams and Star Wars in general, but because it sounds different from his other works (just like you said). (SMALL SPOILER ALERT) I think the theme fits Obi Wan very well in this series, as Obi Wan is still... (I don't know how to say it) "trying to recover" from what happened in Revenge of the Sith and he's still not as "wise" as he is in A New Hope. I think the theme captures that quite well, and perhaps that's why the harmony sounds "uncertain" and doesn't sound major or minor. It's to capture Obi Wan's feelings So yeah I love it personally :) Please make more of these kind of videos Mattia, keep up the great work!
I agree about the ostinatos. when I first heard those I thought he was tilting towards the modern (overused) repeating patterns. However, I think as he rarely uses ostinatos that much (certainly not in that particular way), he does a nice job of layering the horns over the top of them, both sounding great altogether. Not sure I want to see Williams adding war drums to everything anytime soon though...
The more I listen to this new Star Wars theme, the more I love it!!!! It is simple as the original, I think that's why I like it so much. Do you remember any or the newer movies themes, most likely not.
I explained the quality of the harmonic progression to my two kids a week ago, while playing the theme on the piano. I was so enthusiastic about it, and I was wondering if anyone was geeking out as much as I was. Thanks so much for this video.
Great video Mattia ! As a huge Star Wars fan, I 100% share your analysis of this theme, it's "different" from JW's regular approach but honestly I loved the unusual harmonic progressions of the piece.
I think this is a strong piece. Williams is now a seasoned composer who knows how to use less without to compromise the results. He was probably trying to be as minimalistic as one of his star wars scores could be. Not using tons of divisi and counterpoint was probably his experiment to go straight to the point in this piece. I like the chords progression a lot, and simplicity in this case is what it makes it, one again, very singable and memorable. It sounds modern but in the best way possible. There's still that mastery which sometimes lacks in many other famous composer's work nowadays. Well done as always, John!
When I was listening this theme in first time I have a filling about Williams change his assistant either work alone without crew. I don’t know how it really was, but its stuff so different from usual Williams’s style.😢 But I love this show.❤ Just wanted a little bit more of original Star Wars music style.
Greatings, Maeatro Chiappa! I would like to thank you for all the tips offered on your channel! My last soundtrack was heavily inspired by your videos about "marches"! It's practically a crime to see that few people know you! Thank you so much for everything, Mattia! 🎻🎷🎺📯🥁🎹😃😃😃
Well, the end credits arrangement that you discuss in the video was made by Williams Ross, who worked with Williams on Harry Potter - perhaps that's why it sounds a bit different. Also, I think that Williams might have written it with the co-composer of the series in mind - if he wrote something very complex and difficult, Natalie Hoult, who is doing the rest of the series, could have some problems with fitting it to the sceen, while Williams was free of such constraints this time. Also, the first few bars are literaly a citation from Wagner's Siegfried theme (even the key and the instruments are identical), which is an interesting call back, because in the first Star Wars movie, Kenobi's theme and the Force theme were the same thing (the longer the movies lasted, the more connected to the Force and less to Kenobi was the theme), and that theme was also inspired (although in a less obvious way) by Siegfried's theme. It's as if he made that call back to explore the different side of the character.
Obi esta escondido de la fuerza. Despues de lo q ocurrio en el episodio 3 está roto. El tema empieza funebre/pesado con el tema de ‘la fuerza’ pero no llega completarlo, porque Obi no llega a desarrollar. El ostinato solemne evoca a los dos donde el estuvo: duel of fates y el duelo con anakin del ep. 3. Luego se vuelve más brillante porque obi despierta en la serie con mas determinacion. La melodia tambien varia del tema de luke y leia, ya que obi les protege. Es una joya escondida. La armonia moderna de williams me recuerda mas a su etapa en las secuelas. Es una serie de transicion para obi, asi que entiendo que el objetivo de williams es aclarar y determinar un solo tema, no hacer ningun desarrrollo. Minimalismo emocional? Gran video gracias! ❤
People saying they want more re I f the Original and prequel themes. But they probably wanted to create new themes for their shows, but still here and there throwing in the older themes.
Thank you for this video Mattia! My 2 cents in regards to the ostinato and the slight change of orchestration here. I believe maestro Williams is being very kind to the other music composers of the series by “modernizing” if you will the sound of Obi WAN’s theme. This fits with the overall musical style of the show.
the production is modern because it was orcestrated or at lest finalised by other composers who made midi mockup and than mixed etc .... so they added their own takes but john most likely wrote the piano sketch for it ...
I can certainly tell you what they released is not mock-up. If somebody else orchestrated it other than Williams, which I don’t think that’s the case, they certainly knew what they were doing. There are lots of Williams’ moves even if it feels different from his usual stuff
Trouble is that the arranment is so forgettable as it lacks a melody and a hook that gets stuck in people's head. Where as I incorporate parts that gets stuck in people's head. The Dance With Wolves them is a great example of catchy music.
Well, he isn't composing alone, he is working with Natalie Holt, which is an established composer when it comes to the more modern era of movies and series, so it might be where the difference in approach lie. If i'm not wrong she is composing everything but the main title, but i would think the theme is adapted to not clash with the language of Holt
Really great analysis and incredible mock-up. I envy your ear for orchestration! I am going to dissent against the video a bit, as I am one of those people who has been underwhelmed by the theme (compared to JW's previous work, which is probably the most unforgiving comparison you can give any composer, even JW himself). For me the piece just doesn't have the surface level appeal that is required for a work to be moving.. No hook, so to speak. The voicings, sophistication of harmony and clarity of parts are all there and as brilliant as you've argued. But these are deeper structures of composition that need to be in service of something more surface-level. It's like if you sit through a movie that's a slog and somebody says "yeah, but the cinematography, props and sets were incredible!". They may have been, but one can only really appreciate a good prop in service of a film that must first be good on a different level.
It is not this theme that is the problem for me. It is all of the other music. While there is nothing technically wrong with the score, it does not work for me tonally. Particularly when characters that have their iconic themes appear in the show, and those themes are not used. It creates a massive emotional disconnect. It is kind of begging for a 'The importance of John Williams' treatment where someone edits in the iconic character themes into the scenes in the series that were missing them. I guarantee it would elevate them and deepen their emotional impact. It is really bizarre to me that they have these extremely memorable themes, but didn't use them. The show really suffers as a result
Yea his orchestration is amazing but John Williams, the greatest melody composer of all time in my opinion, did not succeed with this melody. It is clearly a copy of Wagners Siegfrieds Horn melody. Williams often uses other melodies as inspiration, but this is too close and doesn’t succeed in surpassing Wagners.
If you have to tell me that it’s great, it probably ain’t great. I suspect that JW did little more than a sketch of this piece. This isn’t his orchestration, and his textures are never this simple.
John Williams is the best. So glad he got to write the theme for the Kenobi series
I really liked the themes. They did stand out to me as simpler than previous work, but my take on that is it allows development as the series progresses. And it makes the music more recognisable. I just thought this was intentional.
This theme has grown on me as I’ve been listening to it a lot. It’s both melancholic, with those minor chords, and heroic - like the Jedi it was written for at this stage of his life.
I love this new concept of making "analysis" videos Mattia, please make more of it!
I personally love Obi Wan's theme and not just because I'm a big fan of John Williams and Star Wars in general, but because it sounds different from his other works (just like you said). (SMALL SPOILER ALERT) I think the theme fits Obi Wan very well in this series, as Obi Wan is still... (I don't know how to say it) "trying to recover" from what happened in Revenge of the Sith and he's still not as "wise" as he is in A New Hope. I think the theme captures that quite well, and perhaps that's why the harmony sounds "uncertain" and doesn't sound major or minor. It's to capture Obi Wan's feelings
So yeah I love it personally :)
Please make more of these kind of videos Mattia, keep up the great work!
I agree about the ostinatos. when I first heard those I thought he was tilting towards the modern (overused) repeating patterns. However, I think as he rarely uses ostinatos that much (certainly not in that particular way), he does a nice job of layering the horns over the top of them, both sounding great altogether. Not sure I want to see Williams adding war drums to everything anytime soon though...
Ahahah I must admit I’d be intrigued to hear what he’d do
Love it Mattia! Great work as usual.
The more I listen to this new Star Wars theme, the more I love it!!!! It is simple as the original, I think that's why I like it so much. Do you remember any or the newer movies themes, most likely not.
Great stuff Mattia! Thanks for your thoughts and knowledge!
amazing analysis
Thanks!
I explained the quality of the harmonic progression to my two kids a week ago, while playing the theme on the piano. I was so enthusiastic about it, and I was wondering if anyone was geeking out as much as I was. Thanks so much for this video.
Such a powerful theme
5:08 Siegfried leitmotif
Great video Mattia ! As a huge Star Wars fan, I 100% share your analysis of this theme, it's "different" from JW's regular approach but honestly I loved the unusual harmonic progressions of the piece.
thanks for your work breaking this down.
You’re welcome!
I think this is a strong piece. Williams is now a seasoned composer who knows how to use less without to compromise the results. He was probably trying to be as minimalistic as one of his star wars scores could be. Not using tons of divisi and counterpoint was probably his experiment to go straight to the point in this piece. I like the chords progression a lot, and simplicity in this case is what it makes it, one again, very singable and memorable. It sounds modern but in the best way possible. There's still that mastery which sometimes lacks in many other famous composer's work nowadays. Well done as always, John!
When I was listening this theme in first time I have a filling about Williams change his assistant either work alone without crew. I don’t know how it really was, but its stuff so different from usual Williams’s style.😢
But I love this show.❤ Just wanted a little bit more of original Star Wars music style.
Grazie Mattia per le proposte di riflessione, consigli e analisi TOP
Greatings, Maeatro Chiappa! I would like to thank you for all the tips offered on your channel! My last soundtrack was heavily inspired by your videos about "marches"! It's practically a crime to see that few people know you! Thank you so much for everything, Mattia! 🎻🎷🎺📯🥁🎹😃😃😃
You’re welcome glad it’s helpful!
Well, the end credits arrangement that you discuss in the video was made by Williams Ross, who worked with Williams on Harry Potter - perhaps that's why it sounds a bit different. Also, I think that Williams might have written it with the co-composer of the series in mind - if he wrote something very complex and difficult, Natalie Hoult, who is doing the rest of the series, could have some problems with fitting it to the sceen, while Williams was free of such constraints this time. Also, the first few bars are literaly a citation from Wagner's Siegfried theme (even the key and the instruments are identical), which is an interesting call back, because in the first Star Wars movie, Kenobi's theme and the Force theme were the same thing (the longer the movies lasted, the more connected to the Force and less to Kenobi was the theme), and that theme was also inspired (although in a less obvious way) by Siegfried's theme. It's as if he made that call back to explore the different side of the character.
Obi esta escondido de la fuerza. Despues de lo q ocurrio en el episodio 3 está roto. El tema empieza funebre/pesado con el tema de ‘la fuerza’ pero no llega completarlo, porque Obi no llega a desarrollar. El ostinato solemne evoca a los dos donde el estuvo: duel of fates y el duelo con anakin del ep. 3. Luego se vuelve más brillante porque obi despierta en
la serie con mas determinacion. La melodia tambien varia del tema de luke y leia, ya que obi les protege. Es una joya escondida. La armonia moderna de williams me recuerda mas a su etapa en las secuelas. Es una serie de transicion para obi, asi que entiendo que el objetivo de williams es aclarar y determinar un solo tema, no hacer ningun desarrrollo. Minimalismo emocional? Gran video gracias! ❤
People saying they want more re I f the Original and prequel themes. But they probably wanted to create new themes for their shows, but still here and there throwing in the older themes.
Thank you for this video Mattia! My 2 cents in regards to the ostinato and the slight change of orchestration here. I believe maestro Williams is being very kind to the other music composers of the series by “modernizing” if you will the sound of Obi WAN’s theme. This fits with the overall musical style of the show.
Hello Mattia. I think that Williams is just progressing in his art. That's why it sounds different.
the production is modern because it was orcestrated or at lest finalised by other composers who made midi mockup and than mixed etc .... so they added their own takes but john most likely wrote the piano sketch for it ...
I can certainly tell you what they released is not mock-up. If somebody else orchestrated it other than Williams, which I don’t think that’s the case, they certainly knew what they were doing. There are lots of Williams’ moves even if it feels different from his usual stuff
Trouble is that the arranment is so forgettable as it lacks a melody and a hook that gets stuck in people's head. Where as I incorporate parts that gets stuck in people's head. The Dance With Wolves them is a great example of catchy music.
Hello Mattia, where can I check out your scoring course content? I don't see it on your patreon page. Thanks for the response.
Because it’s not there my friend 😄 www.masterthescore.com/p/20th-century-orchestral-writing
I'm afraid this track is from J.Williams + others composers..more modern sound perhaps....thank you Mattia for this video !
Well, he isn't composing alone, he is working with Natalie Holt, which is an established composer when it comes to the more modern era of movies and series, so it might be where the difference in approach lie. If i'm not wrong she is composing everything but the main title, but i would think the theme is adapted to not clash with the language of Holt
I don’t think she had anything to do with this theme but it’s likely they’ve asked him to make something simpler to match the show.
Really great analysis and incredible mock-up. I envy your ear for orchestration! I am going to dissent against the video a bit, as I am one of those people who has been underwhelmed by the theme (compared to JW's previous work, which is probably the most unforgiving comparison you can give any composer, even JW himself). For me the piece just doesn't have the surface level appeal that is required for a work to be moving.. No hook, so to speak. The voicings, sophistication of harmony and clarity of parts are all there and as brilliant as you've argued. But these are deeper structures of composition that need to be in service of something more surface-level.
It's like if you sit through a movie that's a slog and somebody says "yeah, but the cinematography, props and sets were incredible!". They may have been, but one can only really appreciate a good prop in service of a film that must first be good on a different level.
It is not this theme that is the problem for me. It is all of the other music. While there is nothing technically wrong with the score, it does not work for me tonally. Particularly when characters that have their iconic themes appear in the show, and those themes are not used. It creates a massive emotional disconnect.
It is kind of begging for a 'The importance of John Williams' treatment where someone edits in the iconic character themes into the scenes in the series that were missing them. I guarantee it would elevate them and deepen their emotional impact. It is really bizarre to me that they have these extremely memorable themes, but didn't use them. The show really suffers as a result
It sounds like WIlliams was influenced by Bruckner here.
Yea his orchestration is amazing but John Williams, the greatest melody composer of all time in my opinion, did not succeed with this melody. It is clearly a copy of Wagners Siegfrieds Horn melody. Williams often uses other melodies as inspiration, but this is too close and doesn’t succeed in surpassing Wagners.
I respectfully think that people should just listen, and learn, from JW
If you have to tell me that it’s great, it probably ain’t great. I suspect that JW did little more than a sketch of this piece. This isn’t his orchestration, and his textures are never this simple.
the rest of the score was incredibly shit though, no other way to word it.