As some of you have spotted, the cost for charging an EV for 10,000 miles at the 32.42ppkwh rate should be £1,134 not £1,296. The VAT rate for domestic electricity is charged at 5%. -Rory
@@jamesstanley7263 I do up to 20-25k /yr but my hybrid bills are around 1/3 of electricity used for the home, more often than not energy is consumed in the daytime so not really worth going Eco7 or whatever. BIK is 10-15% more for eHEV's vs Plug In Hybrids, which makes it not worthwhile even if you can find one like for like. *10-15% BIK more = a few £k/yr difference. I get about 50-60mpg avg Plug In Hybrids aren't really "better" for my journeys, its just a tax thing... If it was personal car, i'd just get a 2-3ltr diesel with a giant tank....... or a 1.4 petrol "town car" for road tax reasons..
I think this highlights how Poorly thought out the phasing out of hybrids in 2035 is, clearly they still have so much potential,more R&D into hybrid and REX technology together with biofuels and diesels would be the sensible way forward. I think the hostility to EVs is largely down to the government’s ‘big stick’ approach banning ICE. It’s starting to look very difficult to have a fare and effective public charge infrastructure with so many homes without drives, let alone the minefield of too many charge networks apps and the cracks in the targets of actually building the necessary infrastructure then the elephant in the room of road tax and VAT on energy.
Also, you’re comparing the most efficient hybrid with an EV with pretty low efficiency. Why not an apples to apples comparison? Model 3 SR is around 50% more efficient than the EQS 🤷♂️
I would agree if they offered this new civic, which is lovely, with a range of engines like on the US, and their 1.6 diesel which is still fully RDE and Euro 6d compliant
Forgetting EV and sticking strictly was ICEV, Toyota has done right by their customers and are typically the best selling vehicles in the US. For instance the last I checked (a couple years ago) Toyota had something like 4 of the top 7 best selling vehicles in the US, I forget which model year, maybe 2020. That's a pretty solid thumping of the competition and shows that people like and trust Toyota. The Camry was the best selling vehicle in the US for many years.
Interesting article thank you. I took delivery of a Honda Civic eHEV 10 days ago. Today I did 10 mile trip around town and did indeed achieve 85mpg. Although so far over the first 300 miles I have an average of 50mpg. It’s too soon to know if this is representative or not. For comparison I kept a record of mpg for my last three cars as follows: Ford Fiesta 1.6 diesel - 58mpg Toyota CHR 2.0 hybrid - 55 mpg Cupra Formentor 1.4 plug-in hybrid - 77 mpg Note: The Cupra includes regular home charging which latterly worked out at around £2.90 for a full charge and averages 30 miles. If not home charging then it averaged 43mpg. All 4 cars have done the same commute to work (mostly town) plus a once weekly 70 mile round trip (mostly motorway) so I feel gives fair comparison. UPDATE: Over the first 2 months I am averaging 54mpg. If you are interested I’ve now worked out the difference in running costs between the Honda and the Cupra plug-in. Using similar mileage and combining petrol and electric the Cupra cost me £122 per month to run. The Civic eHEV costs me £115.
@@wilsonroofer you are quite correct it is. By way of update I’m now averaging 54mpg from the first 500 miles. I’m confident that it will improve further.
You’re pretty crap data analyst if you missed a huge gap in this analysis. This Honda will go for an expensive oil change every year, plus a few bits and bobs that go with it, something you do not have as a cost with an EV. I bought an EV in 2021 and the first scheduled maintenance is brake fluid change after 2 years🤪
@@mtumasz Standard service for both electric or petrol vehicles are both priced at around £230 annually. Brake fluid and/or engine oil are changed during said service.
Something I've known for some time and did some calculations myself if I'm honest, but glad to have it confirmed from a trusted source who has a big platform. Thanks Rory.
Excellent real-world analysis. I don't fancy sitting round waiting for an EV to charge while on the road, and for now, a hybrid seems like a good solution.
@@jeezy9406 Not possible for everyone to charge at home the way houses in the UK has been designed. Well, unless we want 100 charging cables trailed over the paths on every street at night. In most cases you're no more entitled to park outside of your home than any other Joe.
@@jeezy9406 For most people, true, but I live in a flat. I'm sure for most people EVs are fine in that respect. I occasionally do 400 mile runs, not often, but enough to make an EV a bit of a faff.
My guess is the many of automotive companies are doing a hard switch to BEV. So a switch to hybrid is difficult for some companies. Plus making a new hybrid vehicle is very expensive especially if the vehicle will be a stopgap to full electric vehicle fleet. The japanese companies (Toyota and Honda) have been stubborn in their switch to full electric vehicles, but they have decades of experience in hybrids. So Honda is leveraging their experience to produce vehicles like the e:HEV Civic. I am skeptical of a full transition to BEV, and there should be more attention to hybrids.
Because of the german car makers,they think first at their market. Look at a BMW 320i,see how efficient and what a good fuel consumption it has at high speeds and how bad it is in the city. German car makers have no hybrids in their line up,just mild hybrid and plug in
@@johnyverstegen3910 they're not as good as Honda. I know someone who has a Renault Arkana and it's rated at 56mpg, and they only got 26mpg. They did however take it back to the dealer to have it fixed, and it still only did 37mpg. However it went back to 26mpg later. So, I don't think Renault is as good. I believe Japanese are the best, except Nissan and Mitsubishi which are part of Renault now.
Seriously haven't seen a single bad review of the civic e hev. Even german car channels like autogefuhl and car crash review are praising its ride and handling. It's interior is extremely well made, real metal dials and vents, interior is minimasltic but still keeps all dials and buttons. It's really practical, got a pretty good safety rating and it's frugal even if you push it. The styling isn't as exciting as the old one but maybe that's a good thing as well
@@shivamarya5225 totally agree. Only sticking point in the UK is the price. It’s very expensive and they are not offering great discounts at the moment. There are better deals to be had with the Corolla.
@@eugenux most electric cars get better mileage in city driving than highway driving, I'm sorry if you only drive on highways, USA doesent have the hybrid, that's why it's cheaper and you're never gonna use 180kmph unless you're on the Autobahn but if you do then it's still really stable and doesent vibrate like a cheap car, see autogefuhl's review, it drives really good twisty roads and is cheap to run. I wouldn't be surprised if it's in top 5 in the car of the year lista and the world car of the list like the honda e, you're probably just salty you got an Astra or whatever and now you don't wanna have buyer's remorse
@@eugenux ah so it was a Leon, i did say Astra OR whatever and it's faster than a Leon in 0-60 and 60-80mph which matters more than to speed unless you live near an Autobahn, Leon has a smaller boot, legspace and shoulder space and it's interior is not even comparable, civic softouch on doors and the whole dashboard, and had real metal trim not plastichrome and the touch sliders are horrible to use cause they don't even light up at night so you can the difference between temperature. This civic is literally a car of the year contender for ergonomics, the interior is minimasltic, like everyone is going trying these days but doesent remove any buttons like Tesla and Vw which removed them to reduce clutter but honda kept every knob and button and still made the interior minimasltic and not only did they keep the buttons and vents, they made them better to use and touch than before and every single one is illuminated even window switches and you can dim all them at night with a physical button instead of screen menu and the whole interior is retro styled, the vents are styled like old chrome vents from the 60s, the screen is literally styled like an old crt display with thick back, and speaker grilles on the back and volume knob and other buttons on the right. And these vents solved an old design problem that troubled every car designer. AC vents are generally ugly plastic flaps that stick out in most designs, most concept cars don't even have include them, tesla got rid of them to make their interior more minimal and designers try their best to integrate it into both vents to have some sort of connection but it just leads to ugly plastic lines to connect one vent with the other like with mazda 3, Hyundai Tucson, honda's own Ev and HRV and even gle which has a fake left vent but in this they are not only integrated they are an actual design feature thats actually good to handle. The old civic was garbage and so it's HRV and honda e interior, it had hard plastic and fake wood trim. But this one is a masterpiece in modern interior design, no wonder they're just copy pasting it to other cars now. And the rest of the car isn't bad either it's practical unlike mazda, it's actually fun to drive so much, as you can see Autogefuhl's or carwow's review on it who generally don't prefer asian cars. Honestly the previous gen hondas were all average, they were overstyled till it became an eyesore and the chassis didn't even feel good when driving and the sound system was horrible, this is probanly best in class along with the Bose in the mazda 3 I know it's a long rant but you just don't know what you are talking about, there's not a single bad review of the civic not because others are blind and don't see but they've actually driven and lived with cars more and less expensive than this and know when something's special
The Civic is one of my favorite cars right now, but even as an enthusiast, I listen to the words "Civic", "Hybrid" and "MPG" and I feel this rush of peace flowing through me 😂 Regular hybrids really are the answer and we finally have a great hybrid that people can buy! Well done Honda! ❤️🙌🏻
Or they could have offered the 1.6 diesel from the mk10 civic at £10k less, a friend has one and has never done less than 60mpg, 70 if drive more carefully
@@eugenux Oh, 60k for the Type R is not worth it (Evrn though I remember that was £47,000 MSRP 🤔) and I said people can reach the Civic Hybrid not that it is affordable 😬
@@alexanderstefanov6474 They should, and also pure petrol (not available in EU, only ehev), but those cover different usage. Diesel engines, specially new ecological filtered ones, are more difficult to maintain, and can have issues if doing mostly short city commutes. Hybrids can do even better mpg in town. So if it is mostly short start-stop city driving hybrids are better, if it is highway mile munching diesels can't be beat. But even so companies are looking towards the future and there is a reason Honda is offering only hybrids in EU, diesels are probably going to be regulated out of the market even before petrol, with towns restricting access to some areas and such, maybe higher taxation and what not. Though newest generations don't seem to have that much pollution disadvantage, so who knows.
Great content! Based on my experiences with Prius, Volt, and Bolt EV, one thing worthy of more discussion is how weather and road speeds can really affect hybrid, PHEV, and BEV efficiency. For example, on beautiful 50F day driving on minor country roads, I can easily get 5 miles per kilowatt hour. In summer heat or freezing cold, a Bolt EV is much less efficient. I try to use the heated seats and steering wheel to avoid using the heater. In the summer the AC can really hurt efficiency. Also 65+ MPH can affect things. My 2009 Prius averaged 52mpg most months, but was as bad as 42mpg during the coldest months.
@@BioniqBob be honest would you buy a 15 year old electric car with it's original battery? And if you were to say yes "I'd just change the battery" then you would get it for wayyy less than a car which you doesn't worry you about battery replacements
@@abdullahbinshahid3199 I would never buy a 15 year old car. Hard to follow you, try getting an education. 'be honest would you buy a 15 year old electric car with it's original battery? And if you were to say yes "I'd just change the battery" then you would get it for wayyy less than a car which you doesn't worry you about battery replacements' LOL
I don't have a Honda civic ehev but have a Kia Niro pure hybrid and I have to agree how remarkable a hybrid can be provided you pay attention to the display periodically while driving. The hybrid will educate you on the Newtonian mechanics teaching you to drive sensibly and economically. That's not to say that you'll be avoiding overtake maneuvers but it will also help you squeeze out more mileage from your conventional fossil fuel vehicles by changing your driving behaviour. Definately been a worthwhile investment.
Greetings fellow Niro owner!...I test drove the Kia Hybrid back in December 2018 and thought it was a fine car. At the time I owned a Gen 2 Prius and thought the Kia was a much better drive. But my dealer here in France had just got the e-Niro on demo and I had a go in that too. It was a massive step up again from the Hybrid to drive and although a lot more expensive I had to have it!...It was a sort of retirement present to self...So here we are 4 years and 80,000 km later and even with the hybrid doing 55 mpg (does that sound reasonable based on your experience?)...I have saved over €5,000 on fuel as compared to the e-Niro and at least €1,000 on servicing. We have done long road trips back to the UK from our home in South West France, to Germany and next week are off to Zurich to see family over there, a 920 km run. With the 450 km range I run out of 'bladder time' before the car gets to 20% SOC...I never drive for more than 3 hours at a go even when we had ICE cars, so we stop and plug in for 30 mins and see to the human machines... We have never been inconvenienced by having an EV but I think the Niro generally is a solid, practical and spacious car...We hope to keep it for a long time.
@@h20dancing18 Don't be quick to ignore manufacturing emissions and supply chain emissions, combined with the fact that many of these 'inefficient' cars you're talking about can still get around or above 30mpg. Cars were smaller and lighter then, and also easier to repair. It is almost always a better decision to keep what you have going. Only if you're driving a literal rust-bucket 5000 is your belief true. And engines don't just randomly get worse over time for no reason, they get worse because they're not maintained. An EV does the same thing if you treat it's battery horribly.
Love it. And I’ve come to similar conclusions when comparing cars and crunching numbers. The traditional hybrids are actually very attractive now from purely a financial standpoint. The Camry hybrid, for example, is only $1500 more than the base Camry and it has more power and far better fuel economy. A comparable plug in hybrid or electric car would be far more expensive upfront.
If and only if, we all started using hybrid cars as efficient as the Honda civic e:HEV, we might even solve the fuel crisis and the fuel ending so rapidly.
@@jezpacito well they say that but some countries don't give a damn and still produce more anyway. They can't stop because it will cost them a heap if they stopped producing.
An excellent video explaining how each car could be economically beneficial to different people. Although I'd say in the interest of fairness as the new Civic is probably the most efficient full hybrid a more fair comparison would be against a more efficient EV like an Ioniq or Model 3 which can do 4-5 mpkwh easily.
Good video, came to the same conclusion myself as plug in / EVs seem to be about £10,000 more expensive to buy than hybrids. That pays for alot of fuel (about 40,000 miles worth at a conservative 40mpg). For the plug ins you then have to add the price of the electricity so they cost even more, so over the same 40,000 miles it would be about £4,500. The battery performance also degrades over time so you are likely to get shorter range figures and this will also reduce the second hand price, so depreciation will be higher. All in all electric cars are an expensive option and if you drive any distance you need to do alot of planning and have nerves of steel.
Loved this comparison! One other quite important factor to consider is the availability of cheaper used hybrids, like the 2008 Prius amd 2012 Prius V that my wife and I have. We bought the 2008 Prius for $11,000 Canadian dollars back in 2014, and the 2012 Prius V in 2016 for $15,000 Canadian. Both are still running beautifully, with only expected wear items like tires and brake pads needing replacement, and of course, I had to find the only body shop in the Ottawa area that actually cuts out rust and welds in new metal to do a patch on each of them, but even so, the cost for this was only $650 Canadian for a spot on the 2012 Prius V's left rear wheel well, and $460 for a spot on the 2008 Prius' door well, but the rust repairs are probably more of a Canadian issue, with all the salt they have to put on our roads. Cheers!
In 2012 we got one of the first Plug-in Prius in the UK. About 13 to 16 miles EV only depending on time of year. Enough to get me to and from work during the summer, in winter, the ICE fired up for the last mile or so. There-in lies a problem: If you can manage most trips without using the engine, you save hugely on petrol, BUT, the engine only JUST gets warmed up, this can cause condensation in the top of the engine around the valve gear, resulting in emulsion forming. This is BAD for engines and oil. If this does happen, the engine will need flushing oil to clean out the oil ways, I addition to the oil change. OR, you can use the engine a lot more, but that defeats the point of having a Plug-in. In 2019 we got a Kia eNero. Brilliant car. I averaged 5 miles per kWh over the time we had it. As you did with your testing, I generally keep the speed down, 30 to 40 mph. THAT means you are using less energy to just push the air out of the way. Been running an EV6 now for a year. Average consumption is 4.4 miles per kWh. I am happy with that for such a big, heavy car. Again: Keep the speed DOWN. Final observation: I don't know of ANY fuel stations that let you fill up at half price over night! I also don't know of anybody who makes their own fuel at home, (possible exception of bio-diesel from used chip fat?), whereas anybody with Solar PV can charge their car for N'owt during the summer!
Bonjour from a long term e-Niro owner in France! We got ours in March 2019 as a sort of retirement present..It's our only car and we've done 78,000 km in it so far. Our winter/summer average is 4.2 miles/kwh (converting from kWh/100 km which we use here)...for most of the year it does a lot better than that with a range over 500 km in the summer time.. Last year we covered off all our driving (19,500 km) from the solar panels on our barn roof. Driving on sunlight is so cool..😊...You make a good point about home solar, an option not available to fossil fuel drivers of course. Even on a mid-winter trip to Frankfurt in Germany to see a newly born grandson (you have to make those trips!)...the range was over 300 km....more than I drive before taking a break. The EV6 looks amazing, have had a good look at one at my dealer in Niort.. too big for us but would have loved one of those in my working life when I had cars like BMW 5 series and big Volvos...and young kids! Rory makes some good videos but his comparison between the Civic and the Merc is unrealistic...The Tesla M3 is comparable in size and would get at least 4 miles/Kwh which changes the cost comparison greatly. Bon chance!
Hi Rory, love the work you do! My concern with hybrids is the complexity. This is acceptable when the car is under warranty, but I would not buy a used one out of warranty. The beauty of a fully electric vehicle is its simplicity, the only concern is the longevity of the traction battery pack. However real world experience suggests the traction battery will last at least 200k miles, very few combustion cars get to this mileage without major engine issues.
Totally agree. There is certainly a total cost of ownership argument. Whatever battery argument exists for EVs "going bad" also exists for hybrids and then there is an additional mechanical engine wear n tear to consider after X years. I think all modern cars have shelf lives, as opposed to the old beat up family car that used to last 3 or more generations of family dog (there's a measure unit for ya :) ) Also some countries have incentive schemes to reduce initial outlay of the EV. The one car that truly baffles me right now is plug in hybrids... they just don't make any sense.
@@drunkenwhiskeyeuthat's the problem... Lithium batteries have come to it's peak and very few countries control lithium reserves which leads to oil like scenario where wars will decide who control the reserves.. solid state battery or sodium battery is the only option... EV revolution is great but should not be forced like toyota said because the word is not even ready to meet 10% customers... Tesla have selective fans who want to ride ev no matter what but other than tesla, 50% plus owners of EV have moved back to ICE and hybrids.. Hybrids market have grown 5 times in last year and it won't slow down... Phev makes complete sense.. If every car in the world goes hybrid, we can take emissions of automotive back to 2005...what more do people need?
I have a Toyota hybrid and I love it, I never thought I would get one but I love the file economy and the extra power the electric motor gives me. I can honestly say all my cars moving on will be full hybrids.
I think Honda’s eHEV powertrain is superior to plugin hybrids, it’s effortlessly achieving very high MPG but without requiring recharging or a gearbox! Toyota’s Prius hybrid powertrains are decent but still require a heavy gearbox. Honda’s powertrain is almost always electric drive, and for smooth driving that’s very desirable. My issue with the Honda is that for a Civic, it’s monstrously expensive! My 2017 Civic cost around 60% of what this new model will set you back
Have to say after watching this video, i had a day off today, so took a trip to the local honda dealer, tried both the HR-V and civic, as the new HR-V looks smart aswell. similar tech except only a 1.5 litre engine instead of the 2.0 litre which is a shame. But that civic is a blast of a car, only had it for about 50-60 minutes but did plenty of real world driving, in that time, motorway, back roads and dual carriageway, I got the salesman to reset the MPG to see what i would get, using cruise control, @70mph, 62MPG, when went back roads and dual carriageway increased to 66/67MPG which i thought was decent. and that included a couple of nice bits of twisty roads and straights where can actually have some fun. overtaking was easy in the civic. sadly the 1.5ltr engine and or the fake rev/gear shifts put me off the HR-V otherwise, lovely car to drive but overtaking and or accelerating up a slip lane to the motorway just didnt fill me with confidence. had it had the same 2.0 litre engine and sounds if would be a difficult choice between the 2, as due to the new civics size (for me its no longer mid sized hot hatch more large hatch, so octavia/passat territory), the HR-V would probably be the more practical car.
I'm currently driving the E-HEV civic. It is really efficient. I live in the city with moderate traffic everyday. On an 18" wheel I manage around 20-24Km/l. Also for long distance travel, it is way better then EV.
Thanks. Interesting. BTW it's the depreciation and cost of capital (eg loan rate) that should be considered wrt more expensive purchase price not the purchase price itself... presuming one plans to sell it at some point. Feel like it's not an accident that super chartering is priced close to cost of petrol but feel a bit cheated that it is. Solar and home charging way to go.
My last two civics (2010 &2015) were the1.8l petrol , both easily achieved 45 mpg . Honda usually quite accurate with their figures. Out of interest I wonder what the old vauxhall ampere cost to run ??
Interesting video. I can't really work out the calculation for PHEV though. If you are charging the 12.4kWh battery from 0-100% everynight, that means you are using up the battery every single day. If we take the average pure EV mile/kWh for calculation, that means running 37.2 miles on electricity per day, 13,578 miles per year (more than the stated 10,000 miles per year). I wonder how often you would need to charge in real life to achieve the Astra's 256 mpg, 10,000 miles per year?
You make a very good point, especially given that the average car commute in the UK is a 23 mile round trip with perhaps a school runs and shopping trips thrown in, most car owners do under 200 miles a week, well within the range of the (in this case) 12.4 kWh battery. We've had a Kia e-Niro for 4 years now and the 64 kWh battery is far more than we need for a typical week of driving. We plug in once a week when it gets to about 30% SOC and take it to 80%. We go to 100% SOC about 10 times a year before setting off on longer journeys and as a one car household this car does all of our average 12,000 annual mileage. There is no way any HEV is cheaper to run than the equivalent EV.
If I was in the market for a new car today and charging at home isn't an option for me, the new Civic would be on top of my list. It's about as efficient as a Corolla Hybrid, but looks a lot better, has a nicer interior and the CVT doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner thanks to the fake gearshifts.
I agree with you but the problem is that the Civic it's not a hatchback and not an SW. Plus this is too expensive, according to Honda we need to spend a lot of money to have good fuel consumption. Honda needs the same exact technology with the 1.5l engine and 130-140hp
They are both the same. Almost similar drive train wise and you will get the same noise from both if you want full beans. Not sure why it's an issue tbh. And none of them have a 'cvt'. It's either serial engine -motor-motor-wheels or direct/parallel engine - wheels/ engine + motor - wheels. They just sound like a CVT (belt and pulley) car because the engine rpm is constant.
I had a BMW G20 320i and now driving a Tesla model Y. The annual service cost quite a bit and all the oil, filter, brake pad, transmission fluid… etc. basically doesn’t exist anymore on my Tesla. The ride and build quality it’s 8/10 for the BMW and 6/10 Tesla. The tech, software update and power, can’t compare btw two, it’s night and day…I miss my G20, however I have no regrets to go with Tesla due to the running cost n tech.
Why is electricity in the UK many times more expensive than North America? In British pounds (roughly) it costs 5-7 “pents” per KWH where I live, when charging at home. making an ev cost a tiny fraction of the civic (fuel wise).
The government here is in ties with oil companies or something, I don't really know, it's all broken at the moment. And to think, BP used to belong to the government, electricity could have been dirt cheap!
Because our UK government work against the people instead of working with us. It's taken me 40 years to realise this but ultimately they see the residents as the cash cow and try to figure out ways of generating money from the residents rather than finding ways of making the country better for the residents and giving us a fair deal. It's really that simple. Everything is setup to extract as much money as possible from the people.
Because they shut coal fired power stations bar 1 and the Government's dash for Gas in the 90's, in the old days if gas went up more coal was burnt until gas came down, now you have this green shit and war so energy is expensive, simples really.
I note he never stated which mode he had the Civic in. The Civic has 4 Individual/Economy/Normal and Sport I think it's fair to say he ran it in Economy mode to get the 80 plus MPG As an owner of the Civic ehev I really don't think I would want to run it in Economy mode all the time - the car is too much fun to do that
2023 Honda Civic hybrid or Toyota Prius are the cars of the year for ordinary people or taxies. But because of insane dealer mark up, I hope I can get one of them next year at MSRP
I think at highway speeds the honda two stage hybrid system engaged a direct clutch to wheels to engine above 65mph which lowers the fuel economy to about 35-40mpg. It is most efficient below that speeds. In UK/Europe on smaller roads it might make sense though
Got Civic 14' 1.6 dtec for the last 2 years done 24k trouble free with 65 mpg average. Maybe not the best handling or fun to drive but can't complain at all with it's reliability and economy
Unfortunately in Ireland, when Honda decided to finally offer The Honda Cvic it was for 47,000 Euro, 2,000 Euro more expensive than a Tesla Model 3 RWD after their price cuts. For my use case with my commute it would be 2,385 euro more expensive to run. (I do around 50,000 kms per year though). The fact is the previous generation Civic was more than 10,000 euro cheaper, if the new Civic was being offered here for 37 or 38,000 Euro than it would have much more sense. It's a pity I really liked the look of it and it's tech. I have a 9th generation Civic now which has been very reliable, would have changed but not at that price.
Actually beggars belief that does. The Toyota Corolla hasn't been outside the top ten best selling cars in Ireland for decades and what do Honda do with a direct competitor but go and price the Civic over 10 grand more than it. Talk about dead on arrival.
Don't forget the cost of DEPRECIATION and REPAIR or BATTERY replacement after 8y/warranty expired. Most regular hybrid cost less than £3000, but plugin C class is easily $12 000 or more and $26 000 on the BEV Benz. I know that TOYOTA HSD has 15 years/unlimited BATTERY Warranty.
Apologies. As some of you have spotted, the cost for charging an EV for 10,000 miles at the 32.42ppkwh rate should be £1,134 not £1,296. The VAT rate for domestic electricity is charged at 5%. -Rory
Well, you can also have better number for EVs if you handle them at low speeds, I have a 2023 Nissan Leaf and on average I get 4.5 KWh per mile and even got a maximum of 6 KWh per mile, really love your videos. Cheers from Florida. ❤
I think the bottom line is, if you’re in the position to take advantage of overnight cheap charging, EV is the way to go, otherwise you’re probably better off with a hybrid… and plug in hybrids are still pointless…
I’m much better comparison would be the model 3 SR+. Same price to buy, 4m per kWh is EASILY achievable and on Octopus Go’s current 9p rate would be MUCH cheaper. Also slightly staggered that you think that “just” a 20% saving isn’t worth considering. On the above date it would be well over 40% cheaper to go BEV if you have a drive.
You really need to factor in maintenance costs and expected residuals to make a proper comparison. The battery pack in a full ev will still have value long after the car itself is no more.
One thing that never seems to be considered with these comparisons is the PHEV doesn't just switch from electric to gas engine exclusively. All PHEVs can operate as a hybrid as well thus achieving a much better fuel efficiency.
Don't forget the effect of the increased day tarrif on these special EV rates compared to a standard day tarrif. I worked out that my electrify bill would go up by around 800 pounds per year before I even started charging the car!!
But you'd probably be saving over £2k a year by no longer having to buy petrol, so that would more than compensate. And after a couple of years, get £4k's worth of solar on your roof to reduce your reliance on the grid.
@@Brian-om2hh but then I still have to charge the car, so in effect charging the car would cost me about 1250 a year against a fuel bill of 2k. Yes abit of a saving but alot of restrictions that come with it and the increase in cost of buying an EV over a standard ice car. Maintenance savings help out abit but still no way a valid proposition for me. I was more making the point that people don't necessarily realise that going onto an EV tarrif will increase your home electricity bill in other areas so it's something to consider
@@Brian-om2hh Exactly! The correlation between EV ownership and domestic solar is around 30% in the UK, last time I looked at the stats. When you ditch fossil fuels and go electric you always have that option to offset your 'fuel' costs from your roof. I put up 8 solar panels a few months after getting my EV in March 2019...then added 3 more last year which given our average annual driving of 19,000 km (I live in France)...covers all the driving from sunlight plus a bit left over. This is an option a fossil fuel car driver never has of course.
I’ve owned multiple EVs because of the benefit in kind tax break. Let me explain why they aren’t the future. I am fortunate to be able to charge at night at home and have faffed around with my charger to only charge between 00:30 and 04:30. So running costs for me are cheaper than a ICE car. HOWEVER…EVs are: - useless in the winter - 50% of your range disappears meaning the cost saving is offset and you’re constantly worried about your range and whether or not you should have the heater on - terrible for the environment - they create 3x as much Co2 to produce given all the expensive minerals. They mice through tyres each of which uses 8 gallons of oil to produce. - public charging is expensive - public charging never charges at the speed your car is capable of, so when you’re told it’s 20 mins to charge to 80% it’s 45 mins minimum - we are generating a massive issue for the future in un-recyclable lithium batteries - to use a public charger you need to give more data than opening a bank account and even then, half of them fail to charge - they’re heavy and boring to drive…it’s like driving a heavy laptop - there’s no soul
My Prius PHEV regularly returns 60-70mpg when in Hybrid mode and then I’ve got the battery for short journeys or driving through town etc. I’ve previously owned and EV but would take the flexibility of a deliberately efficient hybrid over an EV any day. Hybrids not built for pure efficiency don’t make a lot of sense to me tbh. I would probably go with just a hybrid over a plug in hybrid next time (the extra costs isn’t really worth it imho) and the Civic looks like a solid choice along with the new Corolla.
Can I ask how often you charge your Prius if running in hybrid mode? And how many miles you do per year? I think the calculation in this video was a bit off for PHEV.
@@tfzsl I used to do most of my mileage in EV mode but now I don't have a charger at home so just charge once a week at a public charger (28p kw/h). My car has done over 60k miles and the lifetime average mpg is about 110mpg as I used to do so many miles in EV mode. I guess the point is that the cost of running a PHEV is a blend of EV costs and Hydrid running costs depending on how you are able to use the EV mode as a % of your total mileage. As such it's almost impossible to make a comparison as everyone's use will be different.
I think run your house on your own solar. Plug in your EV with bidirectional charging to make your house/ car combo worthwhile. Being energy independent is the way forward but only with a hefty outlay. Either way they have you. That Civic is a nice car- wait a year or two until they offer an actually affordable APR rate and they'll either lower the price or offer you a £1000 deposit contribution, let all the other mugs pay the premium in the first year, if Honda fail to sell to a high price then they'll start putting on offers. Wait.
When you really get down to the math EV isn’t always the best option. It truly comes down to how you use it. I’m in the USA and live in arizona. We don’t have many public chargers available so you are relegated to home charge g
@@vendel5667I thought you said it wasn't all about the benefits? Besides, this person from Arizona still needs to be able to get from A to B, if they can't do that, an EV is useless to them, there's no two ways about it. It's just true that the charging network just isn't where it needs to be.
@@Leon_George They never disclosed how far they commute daily. If the daily commute is enough for 1 charge and they can charge at home I really dont see an issue with poor infrastructure when the vast majority of people rarely go beyond 200 miles a trip.
Now I'm retired, I charge my 9 month old Kuga phev in the garage every 2nd or 3rd night for about a 40 mile range. This is my 2nd Kuga 2.5 phev and love it.
Thank God for this video. I was on the verge of buying an EQS, but the fuel cost convinced me to go with the Civic. Not to mention the cradle-to-grave carbon footprints.
My Toyota Aygo: Cheap to buy, cheap to insure, cheap to maintain, 477 miles of range, 55 miles to the gallon, £0 road tax, fill up anywhere undercover in less than 5 minutes, no need for apps on my phone to locate a charger that when I get there it doesn't work, no range anxiety, etc. Who the hell needs a battery powered car?
It's an interesting take when hybrids are getting this efficient, but like you mentioned towards the end of the video, maintenance is a cause for concern. Usually the cells in smaller battery packs in hybrids cycle a lot more than larger packs in EV that only cycle once per the vehicle's range, and the packs in hybrid tend to wear out at around 100-150k miles. So for a long term ownership point of view, it would take a lot less than 36 years for that gap to close, especially if you add in the maintenance needed by the ICE part of the powertrain. In the case of a Model 3, there are high mileage cases such as a Canadian owner experiencing only 20% degradation after a whopping 310k miles, which is still very usable. We can safely assume that long range EV packs will last the life of the vehicle. Personally, if I had to choose between a hybrid and an EV that are somewhat close in lifetime ownership costs for a daily driver, I'd always go for the EV. An skateboard-type EV like the Tesla or Hyundai/Kia (not like Nissan Leaf or BMW i4/i7 that share modular platforms with ICE models) would always give you more usable cabin and/or storage space than anything with an ICE with the same exterior footprint, and also, as you mentioned, lower lifetime CO2 emission from manufacturing to retirement. Plus, a lot less time wasted getting the car serviced. At the moment, the convenience factor still mostly depends on if charging at home is an option. Hopefully as our public infrastructure improves, both from number of public chargers and cleaner sources of electricity, the cost for public charging will plummet.
The Honda's run on, essentially, car batteries for their hybrid ability, that is what makes this system so clever and why I decided to get a Jazz MHEV. Getting 60mpg (with ease) and not having to worry about charging... it's a really clever and very smart system. Yes, the motors might cost more if needing replacing, but any engineer will tell you that electromotors are far more durable than any ICE.
press cntrl and f to see my comment arguement for a much better combustion electric balance . insurance costs are higher on electric cars because battery fires are more intense and last long time even after washing them away for a bit with a lot of water, they could have the battery eject itself away from car in crash , structure around it can have it slide down a upside down ramp to the side of the car so it stays away from passengers, bu titll have to not cause probelsm to other drivrs who cant brake quik enough to avoid crashing into battery. lubrication maintianence is high er non ev but ev are heavier so tries and brakes go bad quicker
also, big batteyr means exppnentially less effceint, so the more energy going in and out the battery means worse battery degradation, but more parraleles of battery reduce battery degradation... so more battery is not better, theres a balance to be had.
Cracking story, Rory and you validate all of us who don't succumb to the current EV model of costs/environment story, especially for Chinese EVs which are manufactured using coal-fired electricity and all LIons use dodgy lithium mining techniques. Great stuff, more like this, please. I like doing the sums to get the point across, it is the only way to convince some of the reality of EV ownership. Thanks for not mentioning the 0-60 time or how fast the Honda is, that is not what 95% of driving in the UK is about these days.
I think this depends on what your average daily mileage is. I’ve had a plug in hybrid since December and only filled the tank up twice. I’ve driven 1700miles . Cost me around 80p every other day to charge it. Octopus also do a ev economy tariff which is 10p/kWh
Well said, I think Rory is using a higher price than Octopus are charging. I don't live in the UK but am a member of the Kia Niro EV (e-Niro) Facebook Group based in UK and people there are still getting 10p or less I believe. The 3 miles/kWh Rory uses based on the Merc is not a fair comparison. Over 4 years winter/summer driving my car is getting 4.2 miles/kWh so the Civic should be compared with this or the Tesla M3 which is at least as good as the Kia in terms of efficiency. The other thing he did not factor in is what all EV drivers learn to do...what I call 'power grazing'...picking up charge here and there, supermarkets, car parks etc which are sometimes FOC...last year I got about 8% of my driving done from 'Tesco sources' lets call call them...and every little helps. 😊
This is the closest any reviewer has gone to talk about the regenerate efficiency. Every electric car I've driven with BG has been a joke. I think jumping to full electric without learning what hybrids can do was a bad idea. The Honda is obviously generating more electricity back to its battery pack then other models.
Consider with plug-in hybrids and full hybrids you still have an engine which needs yearly servicing, that's an extra cost, and a large one at that. Also, engine issues are a real possibility, a sensor problem can quickly set you back a few hundred £.
Interesting. The decision I have to make next time is to choose between hybrid, electric, or if the cut off date gets put back…another regular petrol car. Obviously for around 48% of U.K. users, a conventional hybrid (not plug in) makes the most sense because no driveway for charging at home.
This is an eye opener. Whether it is worth buying an EV or hybrid vehicle depends on your personal preferences and needs. However, if you are buying EV or hybrids because they are environmentally friendly, you should ask yourself: Is it really worth it to own an EV when they are charged from fossil based energy?
@@italianjob4947 if i was a oil billionaire, yes But srsly, its nothing to be proud of Austria has 61% hydro, 10% wind, 3% solar, 6% bio gas. So 80-81% renewable with the rest being a EU electricity mix. The last coal burning plant was closed 2020 And we're not known for being pioneers in eco anything
Yawn. Stupid objection and comment. Even when charged on the dirtiest current grids an EV still emits less than an equivalent ICE car…and it’s not in the city which means less people killed. The grid’s getting cleaner so it gets better and better over time in terms of emissions.
This is my first visit to this site. I have subscribed and will recommend it because the presenter is direct, clear and does the arithmetic so we do not have to. To give the weights of the vehicles would be very useful. Certainly 'pure' EV is being rammed in our faces but if one considers the weight and volatility of batteries, as well as deterioration it would appear that dirty energy generation in most places and the eco-inimical making of pure EVs makes hybrids superior in every way. Not plug-in hybrids because of the type, size and weight of their battery packs. Further, the joint studies by Japanese and Chinese economists several years ago (on a vast scale) showed that gaseous hydrogen as a bi-product of many industrial processes, as well as dedicated "colors" of hydrogen production could replace petroleum by 2030 with a margin to spare. This caused the PCR to subsidize EV companies to compete and make a 'single economics generation' of EVs then some firms would make occasional EVs for city use and others would adapt their successful models to hydrogen hydrogen ICEs. Some companies would fail and possible be absorbed. In economics a 'generation' means 20 years maximum from start of production to end of product life, with the proviso that some EVs would build in adaptation and those remaining with urban EVs would swap battery packs for a set warranty period. The thinking here is that when batteries end their useful lives, the rare earth elements would be recycled at 55% or greater. The PRC also bought licenses to make hydrogen ICEs at home and commonize aspects of drivetrains. South Korean manufacturers have stakes in this Asian plan but some EV models will continue for general sale, mainly in the small car sector and people carriers. PRC exported some EV brands starting in late 2022 but Q3 2023 was the target for open sales worldwide --which explains the Chinese EV flood. It not a flood so much as a product range release which is unlikely to be repeated. If western manufacturers made EV decisions without proper planning it was their own fault in a free market.
My EV costs 1.6p per mile to run, doubtful any ICE car can come close. -> The last 12 months : 12,000 miles has cost me £198 in energy for my car [Octopus Go 7.5p kWh overnight charging along with charging some use off home solar] My EV is leased through Salary Sacrifice, so due to the low BIK, costs me less per month than any other equivalent 400bhp ICE car. Also, having an EV provides access to Octopus Go (mentioned above), which has saved us £700 on home energy bills through the Winter (Nov - Feb) by being able to run the house purely on 7.5p Kwh (battery storage) vs 34p kWh on the SVR unit rate. ⚡☀👍 Solar and battery storage is saving us between £200 - £250 per month on energy bills, BUT the loan to get it only costs us £180 per month (expected payback on the solar is 4-5 years) So quids in all around 😊
@@SDK2006b polestart 2 is a nice looking car, i have to say, why are you swapping if dont mind my asking? what is the BMW giving you more than the Polestar 2? reason i ask i'm currently looking at the salalry sacrifice options at work so both the civic and the polestar 2 came up so hoping to do a bit of car shopping soon, but would rather a real world experience of them over the salesmans spiel.
@@barnoslogik - I've had the Polestar 2 three years this October and it's going back [leased]. It's been the best car i've had. The only downside is the cramp rear when carrying adults, so I had a Polestar 3 on order but this won't be ready on time, so went for a BMW iX. The P2 is amazing though - fast & quiet with amazing tech, gadgets and spec. Only thing I missed is a rear wiper and more rear space. Efficiency isn't the best but the design and interior quality (for the price) makes up for this.
I have a small EV and love it. Costs about 10p per mile if I charge from home during the day and about 4p per mile if I charge overnight (I have 5 hours cheap rate overnight). As it’s a company car and I get a very cheap lease with current tax rules it’s a lot cheaper than any other type of car for me. However I totally agree with this video that for a lot of people a Hybrid makes sense and they shouldn’t be banned outright by 2035 based on current technology. People should have a choice. If EV tech and infrastructure gets to the point where it makes no sense to have other thymes of vehicles then fair enough but taking away any choice doesn’t make sense to me.
Not only that but the convenience of not having to plug the Civic in will make it a lot easier for regular people to get used to electrified cars as we're making the shift.
I find it terribly inconvenient to plug my EV in to recharge it at home on my drive. It takes me a ridiculous six seconds to plug it in before I go to bed, and a further six seconds to unplug it when I get up in the morning. I do this every 7 to 8 days. I spend less time plugging my EV in to charge, than you do driving to petrol stations to get fuel......
agreed, i think if they want to push EVs on us, then the cost to charge them should be fixed for the next 10 years at a serverely reduced rate, as in less than 10p per kWh
@@barnoslogik I think it is still possible to get a rate less than 10p per kwh (it could be from EDF) but I haven't checked in a while. I'm with Octopus Intelligent, and I get 6 hours per night at 10p per kwh. The daytime rate is slightly up on the norm, but if you can cope with that, or have the means to offset it (solar or a storage battery) then it can work out ok. You also should factor in the saving from not having to buy petrol anymore. I've saved over £4k in the last 30 months, for example.
Because of dash for Gas in the 90's and the shutting of coal fire power stations and then came a war with a supplier of are Gas then gas became the bad guy but then came all this Eco shite. And we're where we are.
@@Brian-om2hh Exactly what I was thinking Brian - in my Ioniq I regularly see 5.5 to 6.5 miles per kWh. Just today three of us were in the car for a 65 mile journey, we had the AC on at 18 degrees and ventilated seats etc yet we still averaged 5.8 miles per kwh. Paying 9.5p per kwh on the e-on drive tariff the cost for that trip was about £1.06! I love how the review compares a Civic, which in fairness I do like and is probably the most fuel efficient hybrid on sale at the moment, against a car several classes above it, and one which isn’t efficient at all for an EV at 3.3 miles per kwh! A comparison with a Niro or an Ioniq would have been a far closer match in terms of car size and class and would have shown the actual savings possible against the Civic.
I took a picture yesterday in my PHEV because I managed to go 100km at 0.5L/100km with the way my day worked out. That's 470 US MPG. Those outlandish figures are possible in the real world. My average overall usage that I haven't reset since I got it (at 32K KM now) is 1.7L/100km (138 USMPG). As a gas mitigation vehicle they are a pretty fantastic technology.
I pay 33p per KWh. So compared to my current Mk08 fiesta ST. That gets 40mpg. Overall. Cost Per mile. Cost is THE SAME EV to a petrol car. Apart from the fact EVs are sooooo expensive
but Phil, one of the first things an EV owner usually does, is to switch to an off-peak tariff. I have Octopus Intelligent, which gives me 6 hours a night at 10p per kwh. Sure, the daytime cost is slightly more, but in the 30 months I've had my EV I haven't had to buy a drop of petrol (apart from for my mower) and I've saved over £4k in that time.
for a PHEV running in hybrid mode, whats the max range where you get great fuel economy before the battery runs out? No one seems to quote this, it would be useful to know.
Why? Millions of people have used cheap rate tariffs for electricity for 50+ years. And I suppose petrol and diesel hasn't ever increased in price then? There is actually a technical reason why energy companies offer cheap rate electricity. They actually *want* and need people to use electricity through the night. I'll leave you to research why.....
Dang 80+ mpg is pretty insane, I thought the 72 mpg my 2015 honda fit hybrid was good. Well it still is impressive, particularly when you factor in it cost us only 13k NZD.
Rory is a Great reviewer. love this video for its ease of breaking down a complicated comparison into easy to process information. very helpful. Thank you
Only 40litre tank on civic! I’m probably going to feel like I’m filling it up more often ( even though fills will be cheaper) very thought provoking video
how will you feel like your filling up more regularly, if a driver can get the 60mpg mentioned, a 40litre/8.8g (8.4g is 38.2litres) tank is doing about 528 miles, if you can get the 80mpg figure that then increases to 704 miles, if you can get that 84.5mpg consistantly it would be 743 miles, you would have to be driving a lot and driving very badly to have to be filling up more. if they only achieve the 55mpg thats claimed that still gives you about 484 miles. now the other thing is unless you're doing a long journey, personally i dont like more than half a tank of fuel in the car as its unnecessary weight in the car, but that would still be giving me somewhere between 240 and 370 miles depending on how and where i drove, and that would cost approx £30 per half a tank. for me thats about 10 days of driving.
@@italianjob4947 you will in stop start driving as the petrol engine is hardly ever needed. The battery charges every time you take your foot off the gas and it charges rapid. So everytime you slow down you're getting free fuel basically, which then covers the next bit of accelerating you need to do. Rinse and repeat. How do I know? I had a Clio E-Tech for a few days as a hire car and that's exactly how it behaved. Take one for a drive and you'll be impressed.
The bit missing from this comparison is the maintenance costs. Full EV wins that comparison every time. Also ignores the fact that hybrids aren't going to get cheaper to buy but EVs will. Also overstates the cost for home charging in best case, which is 10p. At 3m/kWh, that's £333.33 a year. For a more efficient EV doing 4m/kWh, that's £250 a year. Yes, a hybrid like this is cheaper for some people at the moment. But when EVs are cheaper to buy (which they will be), cheaper to maintain (they already are) and cheaper to fuel (more people with solar and battery storage, more renewables on the grid), full EV takeover is inevitable.
The problem is the same now as it's been for years - it's too expensive to be green. EV adoption would be simple and we'd all get over the charging and range issues instantly if it was cheaper than petrol or diesel.
It’s only relatively expensive at the moment because electric prices are abysmal in the UK. The price of the cars are starting to be solved such as MG4 and the upcoming ID2 which is meant to start at 22k.
My EV (Kia eNiro) has averaged 4 miles per kWh over the last 10,000 miles (including this very cold winter). I also pay 7.5p per kWh on my overnight tariff with octopus. Calculating that, it cost me just under £190 to run the car over the past 10,000 miles which I don't think anyone can argue with. You can't compare an AMG with a regular eco car. A Mercedes CLA35 will give you less than 30mpg which is also double or more the cost of the civic...
It's really hard to get an accurate comparison, fuel prices are always changing. We are a two car household as we both work in different jobs and need to commute. One car is electric and our EV tariff is 0.079p per KW at night (midnight to 05:00). Works out really cheap and we always fight to take the electric car, such a good drive. The other is a diesel, we do 20k + miles a year in this one, and it covers long drives without giving range anxiety. Perfect combo for us i think. You can spend all day trying to compare, and get no where.
The engine runs as a series hybrid until it reaches about 40 MPH, when a clutch engages the engine into a sort of "6th gear" to expand the engine's efficiency envelope.
I like the idea of balance but for now most EV drivers use overnight tariffs and some like me also have Solar PV and batteries so that makes our two EVs a lot cheaper to run (my estimate is just 25% of what i spent on ICE cars pa). yes if you rely on public charging the maths is different but this is a factor of the state of the current energy market. So for those people buy an efficient hybrid for now but keep an eye out for what will happen in the EV market
EVs have less maintenance cost? I mean, that's only because they haven't been around very long. Wait till their massive electronic and electrical systems start to fail -- especially in the Chinese EVs that people are so "excited" about.
@@Brian-om2hh oh they do, they're becoming overly complicated. But the extent of their complication is less than EVs. So if you're having a headache with the electrical systems of gas cars, just imagine what it would be like with EVs.
@@pmr01 I'm in Bulgaria, so my rates are fixed by the government, 11p daytime and 5p btw 11pm and 7am (inc. vat). Plus I have 7kwh solar installation which is a hybrid system, and sells almost everything to the grid at 15p kWh, so I don't pay much for power averaged for the year
@@alexanderstefanov6474 you also have Happy Grill restaurant! Love that place! Was there a few years ago for a holiday and loved it. Glad to see the government there are helping people out rather than robbing them like here in the UK.
@@kenzohkw you don't want to know about the government here at the moment to be honest. The situation isn't rosy in Bulgaria, but we're hoping it will improve after the next round of elections next week. Still the fact a lot of us aren't even considering coming back to the UK is a good indicator of how bad things are there.
'Greener at a tailpipe'.........exactly, we're definitely not talking about the manufacture of the batteries, the finite resources that go into them (there for the more batteries produced through time the more expensive they will become as resources will become scarce), recycling of these things. No manufacturer wants to talk about that.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
As some of you have spotted, the cost for charging an EV for 10,000 miles at the 32.42ppkwh rate should be £1,134 not £1,296. The VAT rate for domestic electricity is charged at 5%. -Rory
Who the hell pays 32.4p p kwh? I assumed the first thing EV drivers do is change to a cheap overnight tarif? Like 5-7p cheap...
@@jamesstanley7263 I do up to 20-25k /yr but my hybrid bills are around 1/3 of electricity used for the home, more often than not energy is consumed in the daytime so not really worth going Eco7 or whatever.
BIK is 10-15% more for eHEV's vs Plug In Hybrids, which makes it not worthwhile even if you can find one like for like. *10-15% BIK more = a few £k/yr difference.
I get about 50-60mpg avg Plug In Hybrids aren't really "better" for my journeys, its just a tax thing...
If it was personal car, i'd just get a 2-3ltr diesel with a giant tank....... or a 1.4 petrol "town car" for road tax reasons..
@@JLneonhug Seems like a long winded way of saying you’d be better off with a diesel!
I think this highlights how Poorly thought out the phasing out of hybrids in 2035 is, clearly they still have so much potential,more R&D into hybrid and REX technology together with biofuels and diesels would be the sensible way forward. I think the hostility to EVs is largely down to the government’s ‘big stick’ approach banning ICE. It’s starting to look very difficult to have a fare and effective public charge infrastructure with so many homes without drives, let alone the minefield of too many charge networks apps and the cracks in the targets of actually building the necessary infrastructure then the elephant in the room of road tax and VAT on energy.
Also, you’re comparing the most efficient hybrid with an EV with pretty low efficiency. Why not an apples to apples comparison? Model 3 SR is around 50% more efficient than the EQS 🤷♂️
Sometimes I’m convinced that Honda might actually be the only car company that cares about making car right for everyone.
It definitely feels like that, more and more every model year.
Agreed
I would agree if they offered this new civic, which is lovely, with a range of engines like on the US, and their 1.6 diesel which is still fully RDE and Euro 6d compliant
Same here.
Forgetting EV and sticking strictly was ICEV, Toyota has done right by their customers and are typically the best selling vehicles in the US. For instance the last I checked (a couple years ago) Toyota had something like 4 of the top 7 best selling vehicles in the US, I forget which model year, maybe 2020. That's a pretty solid thumping of the competition and shows that people like and trust Toyota.
The Camry was the best selling vehicle in the US for many years.
Interesting article thank you. I took delivery of a Honda Civic eHEV 10 days ago. Today I did 10 mile trip around town and did indeed achieve 85mpg. Although so far over the first 300 miles I have an average of 50mpg. It’s too soon to know if this is representative or not.
For comparison I kept a record of mpg for my last three cars as follows:
Ford Fiesta 1.6 diesel - 58mpg
Toyota CHR 2.0 hybrid - 55 mpg
Cupra Formentor 1.4 plug-in hybrid - 77 mpg
Note: The Cupra includes regular home charging which latterly worked out at around £2.90 for a full charge and averages 30 miles. If not home charging then it averaged 43mpg.
All 4 cars have done the same commute to work (mostly town) plus a once weekly 70 mile round trip (mostly motorway) so I feel gives fair comparison.
UPDATE:
Over the first 2 months I am averaging 54mpg. If you are interested I’ve now worked out the difference in running costs between the Honda and the Cupra plug-in. Using similar mileage and combining petrol and electric the Cupra cost me £122 per month to run. The Civic eHEV costs me £115.
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Very informative, do you like the car? You should do regular updates 👍
@@Android-vk8yh it’s a great car. Very impressive. Cheers.
Don’t forget though the tech in this car and the performance is outstanding compared to all your other cars
@@wilsonroofer you are quite correct it is. By way of update I’m now averaging 54mpg from the first 500 miles. I’m confident that it will improve further.
As a data analyst this cost comparison is a dream.
Well done guys on the comprehensive cost breakdown especially the best and worst scenarios.
Ray bloody Purchase 🍞
Shame the numbers are wrong 🙂
@@markwilliams5654 When you are dealing with estimate mpg/mpk and not undertaking a long winded real world test the figures are pretty sound.
You’re pretty crap data analyst if you missed a huge gap in this analysis. This Honda will go for an expensive oil change every year, plus a few bits and bobs that go with it, something you do not have as a cost with an EV. I bought an EV in 2021 and the first scheduled maintenance is brake fluid change after 2 years🤪
@@mtumasz Standard service for both electric or petrol vehicles are both priced at around £230 annually. Brake fluid and/or engine oil are changed during said service.
Something I've known for some time and did some calculations myself if I'm honest, but glad to have it confirmed from a trusted source who has a big platform. Thanks Rory.
Excellent real-world analysis. I don't fancy sitting round waiting for an EV to charge while on the road, and for now, a hybrid seems like a good solution.
Do you ever really do more than 300 miles a day? You would just charge it at home at the end of the night you would never need to charge on the road
@@jeezy9406 Not possible for everyone to charge at home the way houses in the UK has been designed. Well, unless we want 100 charging cables trailed over the paths on every street at night. In most cases you're no more entitled to park outside of your home than any other Joe.
@@jeezy9406 For most people, true, but I live in a flat. I'm sure for most people EVs are fine in that respect. I occasionally do 400 mile runs, not often, but enough to make an EV a bit of a faff.
@@eugenux No, I probably wouldn't buy one. Interesting motor, though.
EV chargers are constantly out of order! You loose so much time trying to find a working charger.
I don't understand why there aren't more hybrids like this. Makes so much sense.
My guess is the many of automotive companies are doing a hard switch to BEV. So a switch to hybrid is difficult for some companies. Plus making a new hybrid vehicle is very expensive especially if the vehicle will be a stopgap to full electric vehicle fleet.
The japanese companies (Toyota and Honda) have been stubborn in their switch to full electric vehicles, but they have decades of experience in hybrids. So Honda is leveraging their experience to produce vehicles like the e:HEV Civic.
I am skeptical of a full transition to BEV, and there should be more attention to hybrids.
Because of the german car makers,they think first at their market. Look at a BMW 320i,see how efficient and what a good fuel consumption it has at high speeds and how bad it is in the city. German car makers have no hybrids in their line up,just mild hybrid and plug in
Renault has the same hybrid system on which the engine is used as a generator, but don’t know if the figures are as good as the Honda
@@johnyverstegen3910 they're not as good as Honda. I know someone who has a Renault Arkana and it's rated at 56mpg, and they only got 26mpg. They did however take it back to the dealer to have it fixed, and it still only did 37mpg. However it went back to 26mpg later. So, I don't think Renault is as good. I believe Japanese are the best, except Nissan and Mitsubishi which are part of Renault now.
@@andreiarama8745 because what’s the point of non plug in. Using expensive fuel to inefficiently generate electricity is bonkers
Great thing about the Honda is that it’s a bloody good car as well. I’ll definitely be going down this route when I change my car next year.
Seriously haven't seen a single bad review of the civic e hev. Even german car channels like autogefuhl and car crash review are praising its ride and handling. It's interior is extremely well made, real metal dials and vents, interior is minimasltic but still keeps all dials and buttons. It's really practical, got a pretty good safety rating and it's frugal even if you push it. The styling isn't as exciting as the old one but maybe that's a good thing as well
@@shivamarya5225 totally agree. Only sticking point in the UK is the price. It’s very expensive and they are not offering great discounts at the moment. There are better deals to be had with the Corolla.
@@eugenux most electric cars get better mileage in city driving than highway driving, I'm sorry if you only drive on highways, USA doesent have the hybrid, that's why it's cheaper and you're never gonna use 180kmph unless you're on the Autobahn but if you do then it's still really stable and doesent vibrate like a cheap car, see autogefuhl's review, it drives really good twisty roads and is cheap to run. I wouldn't be surprised if it's in top 5 in the car of the year lista and the world car of the list like the honda e, you're probably just salty you got an Astra or whatever and now you don't wanna have buyer's remorse
@@eugenux ah so it was a Leon, i did say Astra OR whatever and it's faster than a Leon in 0-60 and 60-80mph which matters more than to speed unless you live near an Autobahn, Leon has a smaller boot, legspace and shoulder space and it's interior is not even comparable, civic softouch on doors and the whole dashboard, and had real metal trim not plastichrome and the touch sliders are horrible to use cause they don't even light up at night so you can the difference between temperature.
This civic is literally a car of the year contender for ergonomics, the interior is minimasltic, like everyone is going trying these days but doesent remove any buttons like Tesla and Vw which removed them to reduce clutter but honda kept every knob and button and still made the interior minimasltic and not only did they keep the buttons and vents, they made them better to use and touch than before and every single one is illuminated even window switches and you can dim all them at night with a physical button instead of screen menu and the whole interior is retro styled, the vents are styled like old chrome vents from the 60s, the screen is literally styled like an old crt display with thick back, and speaker grilles on the back and volume knob and other buttons on the right. And these vents solved an old design problem that troubled every car designer.
AC vents are generally ugly plastic flaps that stick out in most designs, most concept cars don't even have include them, tesla got rid of them to make their interior more minimal and designers try their best to integrate it into both vents to have some sort of connection but it just leads to ugly plastic lines to connect one vent with the other like with mazda 3, Hyundai Tucson, honda's own Ev and HRV and even gle which has a fake left vent but in this they are not only integrated they are an actual design feature thats actually good to handle. The old civic was garbage and so it's HRV and honda e interior, it had hard plastic and fake wood trim. But this one is a masterpiece in modern interior design, no wonder they're just copy pasting it to other cars now.
And the rest of the car isn't bad either it's practical unlike mazda, it's actually fun to drive so much, as you can see Autogefuhl's or carwow's review on it who generally don't prefer asian cars.
Honestly the previous gen hondas were all average, they were overstyled till it became an eyesore and the chassis didn't even feel good when driving and the sound system was horrible, this is probanly best in class along with the Bose in the mazda 3
I know it's a long rant but you just don't know what you are talking about, there's not a single bad review of the civic not because others are blind and don't see but they've actually driven and lived with cars more and less expensive than this and know when something's special
@@TheLittleRedCali in australia, the honda civic e:hev goes for 55k. 🤦🏻♂️
The Civic is one of my favorite cars right now, but even as an enthusiast, I listen to the words "Civic", "Hybrid" and "MPG" and I feel this rush of peace flowing through me 😂 Regular hybrids really are the answer and we finally have a great hybrid that people can buy! Well done Honda! ❤️🙌🏻
Or they could have offered the 1.6 diesel from the mk10 civic at £10k less, a friend has one and has never done less than 60mpg, 70 if drive more carefully
@@alexanderstefanov6474 Diesels are not as clean as Hybrids, but they do offer great MPGs!
@@eugenux Oh, 60k for the Type R is not worth it (Evrn though I remember that was £47,000 MSRP 🤔) and I said people can reach the Civic Hybrid not that it is affordable 😬
@@alexanderstefanov6474 They should, and also pure petrol (not available in EU, only ehev), but those cover different usage. Diesel engines, specially new ecological filtered ones, are more difficult to maintain, and can have issues if doing mostly short city commutes. Hybrids can do even better mpg in town. So if it is mostly short start-stop city driving hybrids are better, if it is highway mile munching diesels can't be beat. But even so companies are looking towards the future and there is a reason Honda is offering only hybrids in EU, diesels are probably going to be regulated out of the market even before petrol, with towns restricting access to some areas and such, maybe higher taxation and what not. Though newest generations don't seem to have that much pollution disadvantage, so who knows.
@eugenux I was thinking the same thing. I don't buy new cars anyway so never spent $30k+ on a car
Great content!
Based on my experiences with Prius, Volt, and Bolt EV, one thing worthy of more discussion is how weather and road speeds can really affect hybrid, PHEV, and BEV efficiency. For example, on beautiful 50F day driving on minor country roads, I can easily get 5 miles per kilowatt hour. In summer heat or freezing cold, a Bolt EV is much less efficient. I try to use the heated seats and steering wheel to avoid using the heater. In the summer the AC can really hurt efficiency. Also 65+ MPH can affect things. My 2009 Prius averaged 52mpg most months, but was as bad as 42mpg during the coldest months.
Glad you mentioned that EV maintenance costs are lower, but some figures would be good. Resale values are also worth considering.
This. All of this was GLOSSED over
maintenance isn't that much less unless you go over long-term ownership. Resale values fall through the floor due to battery worrys
@@neilrr1000 Hog wash
@@BioniqBob be honest would you buy a 15 year old electric car with it's original battery? And if you were to say yes "I'd just change the battery" then you would get it for wayyy less than a car which you doesn't worry you about battery replacements
@@abdullahbinshahid3199 I would never buy a 15 year old car. Hard to follow you, try getting an education.
'be honest would you buy a 15 year old electric car with it's original battery? And if you were to say yes "I'd just change the battery" then you would get it for wayyy less than a car which you doesn't worry you about battery replacements' LOL
this is impressive. These kinds of videos are what really people care about
Meaning that Gas ain't going nowhere.
I don't have a Honda civic ehev but have a Kia Niro pure hybrid and I have to agree how remarkable a hybrid can be provided you pay attention to the display periodically while driving. The hybrid will educate you on the Newtonian mechanics teaching you to drive sensibly and economically. That's not to say that you'll be avoiding overtake maneuvers but it will also help you squeeze out more mileage from your conventional fossil fuel vehicles by changing your driving behaviour. Definately been a worthwhile investment.
Greetings fellow Niro owner!...I test drove the Kia Hybrid back in December 2018 and thought it was a fine car. At the time I owned a Gen 2 Prius and thought the Kia was a much better drive. But my dealer here in France had just got the e-Niro on demo and I had a go in that too. It was a massive step up again from the Hybrid to drive and although a lot more expensive I had to have it!...It was a sort of retirement present to self...So here we are 4 years and 80,000 km later and even with the hybrid doing 55 mpg (does that sound reasonable based on your experience?)...I have saved over €5,000 on fuel as compared to the e-Niro and at least €1,000 on servicing. We have done long road trips back to the UK from our home in South West France, to Germany and next week are off to Zurich to see family over there, a 920 km run. With the 450 km range I run out of 'bladder time' before the car gets to 20% SOC...I never drive for more than 3 hours at a go even when we had ICE cars, so we stop and plug in for 30 mins and see to the human machines... We have never been inconvenienced by having an EV but I think the Niro generally is a solid, practical and spacious car...We hope to keep it for a long time.
Keeping your old car is still the most green way to go about things.
Defo
You mean you’re old, inefficient out of date car? Over time, that becomes less and less true
@@h20dancing18 Don't be quick to ignore manufacturing emissions and supply chain emissions, combined with the fact that many of these 'inefficient' cars you're talking about can still get around or above 30mpg. Cars were smaller and lighter then, and also easier to repair. It is almost always a better decision to keep what you have going. Only if you're driving a literal rust-bucket 5000 is your belief true. And engines don't just randomly get worse over time for no reason, they get worse because they're not maintained. An EV does the same thing if you treat it's battery horribly.
@@Leon_George what you don't think a 10,000lb EV Hummer is more ecofriendly than an old Geo Metro that gets 50mpg?
@@h20dancing18 so naive 😂😂😂
Love it. And I’ve come to similar conclusions when comparing cars and crunching numbers. The traditional hybrids are actually very attractive now from purely a financial standpoint. The Camry hybrid, for example, is only $1500 more than the base Camry and it has more power and far better fuel economy. A comparable plug in hybrid or electric car would be far more expensive upfront.
If and only if, we all started using hybrid cars as efficient as the Honda civic e:HEV, we might even solve the fuel crisis and the fuel ending so rapidly.
if demand for oil reduces, OPEC reduce supply in response... as they did during the current 'fuel crisis' we currently find ourselves in
@@jezpacito Soon OPEC will be left trading with themselves.
@@jezpacito well they say that but some countries don't give a damn and still produce more anyway. They can't stop because it will cost them a heap if they stopped producing.
An excellent video explaining how each car could be economically beneficial to different people. Although I'd say in the interest of fairness as the new Civic is probably the most efficient full hybrid a more fair comparison would be against a more efficient EV like an Ioniq or Model 3 which can do 4-5 mpkwh easily.
It’s actually not the most efficient, on paper. 👏🏾
I bet it is the last generation of Prius, isn't it?
I get over 150 miles for less than the cost of a half gallon. 2017 IONIQ E "Clean Electricity"
Good video, came to the same conclusion myself as plug in / EVs seem to be about £10,000 more expensive to buy than hybrids. That pays for alot of fuel (about 40,000 miles worth at a conservative 40mpg). For the plug ins you then have to add the price of the electricity so they cost even more, so over the same 40,000 miles it would be about £4,500. The battery performance also degrades over time so you are likely to get shorter range figures and this will also reduce the second hand price, so depreciation will be higher. All in all electric cars are an expensive option and if you drive any distance you need to do alot of planning and have nerves of steel.
I love your reviews. Your information is very detailed and the only one that gives a very balanced view about petrol, EVs and hybrids. Thank you.
Loved this comparison! One other quite important factor to consider is the availability of cheaper used hybrids, like the 2008 Prius amd 2012 Prius V that my wife and I have. We bought the 2008 Prius for $11,000 Canadian dollars back in 2014, and the 2012 Prius V in 2016 for $15,000 Canadian. Both are still running beautifully, with only expected wear items like tires and brake pads needing replacement, and of course, I had to find the only body shop in the Ottawa area that actually cuts out rust and welds in new metal to do a patch on each of them, but even so, the cost for this was only $650 Canadian for a spot on the 2012 Prius V's left rear wheel well, and $460 for a spot on the 2008 Prius' door well, but the rust repairs are probably more of a Canadian issue, with all the salt they have to put on our roads. Cheers!
In 2012 we got one of the first Plug-in Prius in the UK. About 13 to 16 miles EV only depending on time of year. Enough to get me to and from work during the summer, in winter, the ICE fired up for the last mile or so. There-in lies a problem: If you can manage most trips without using the engine, you save hugely on petrol, BUT, the engine only JUST gets warmed up, this can cause condensation in the top of the engine around the valve gear, resulting in emulsion forming. This is BAD for engines and oil. If this does happen, the engine will need flushing oil to clean out the oil ways, I addition to the oil change. OR, you can use the engine a lot more, but that defeats the point of having a Plug-in.
In 2019 we got a Kia eNero. Brilliant car. I averaged 5 miles per kWh over the time we had it. As you did with your testing, I generally keep the speed down, 30 to 40 mph. THAT means you are using less energy to just push the air out of the way. Been running an EV6 now for a year. Average consumption is 4.4 miles per kWh. I am happy with that for such a big, heavy car. Again: Keep the speed DOWN.
Final observation: I don't know of ANY fuel stations that let you fill up at half price over night!
I also don't know of anybody who makes their own fuel at home, (possible exception of bio-diesel from used chip fat?), whereas anybody with Solar PV can charge their car for N'owt during the summer!
I'd imagine an easy solution to this would be to run through a full tank of fuel (without plugging in) every so often to clean out the ICE
Bonjour from a long term e-Niro owner in France! We got ours in March 2019 as a sort of retirement present..It's our only car and we've done 78,000 km in it so far. Our winter/summer average is 4.2 miles/kwh (converting from kWh/100 km which we use here)...for most of the year it does a lot better than that with a range over 500 km in the summer time.. Last year we covered off all our driving (19,500 km) from the solar panels on our barn roof. Driving on sunlight is so cool..😊...You make a good point about home solar, an option not available to fossil fuel drivers of course. Even on a mid-winter trip to Frankfurt in Germany to see a newly born grandson (you have to make those trips!)...the range was over 300 km....more than I drive before taking a break. The EV6 looks amazing, have had a good look at one at my dealer in Niort.. too big for us but would have loved one of those in my working life when I had cars like BMW 5 series and big Volvos...and young kids! Rory makes some good videos but his comparison between the Civic and the Merc is unrealistic...The Tesla M3 is comparable in size and would get at least 4 miles/Kwh which changes the cost comparison greatly. Bon chance!
Hi Rory, love the work you do! My concern with hybrids is the complexity. This is acceptable when the car is under warranty, but I would not buy a used one out of warranty. The beauty of a fully electric vehicle is its simplicity, the only concern is the longevity of the traction battery pack. However real world experience suggests the traction battery will last at least 200k miles, very few combustion cars get to this mileage without major engine issues.
Totally agree. There is certainly a total cost of ownership argument. Whatever battery argument exists for EVs "going bad" also exists for hybrids and then there is an additional mechanical engine wear n tear to consider after X years. I think all modern cars have shelf lives, as opposed to the old beat up family car that used to last 3 or more generations of family dog (there's a measure unit for ya :) ) Also some countries have incentive schemes to reduce initial outlay of the EV. The one car that truly baffles me right now is plug in hybrids... they just don't make any sense.
It'll be interesting in 10years to see what the used car market will be like.
I'm willing to bet used EVs will be sold for scrap. By then, we'll have moved to more efficient batteries or drivetrains altogether.....
@@drunkenwhiskeyeu yup
The used car market will be a Gigantic Poisonous Waste.
@@drunkenwhiskeyeuthat's the problem... Lithium batteries have come to it's peak and very few countries control lithium reserves which leads to oil like scenario where wars will decide who control the reserves..
solid state battery or sodium battery is the only option...
EV revolution is great but should not be forced like toyota said because the word is not even ready to meet 10% customers...
Tesla have selective fans who want to ride ev no matter what but other than tesla, 50% plus owners of EV have moved back to ICE and hybrids..
Hybrids market have grown 5 times in last year and it won't slow down... Phev makes complete sense..
If every car in the world goes hybrid, we can take emissions of automotive back to 2005...what more do people need?
I have a Toyota hybrid and I love it, I never thought I would get one but I love the file economy and the extra power the electric motor gives me. I can honestly say all my cars moving on will be full hybrids.
I think Honda’s eHEV powertrain is superior to plugin hybrids, it’s effortlessly achieving very high MPG but without requiring recharging or a gearbox! Toyota’s Prius hybrid powertrains are decent but still require a heavy gearbox. Honda’s powertrain is almost always electric drive, and for smooth driving that’s very desirable. My issue with the Honda is that for a Civic, it’s monstrously expensive! My 2017 Civic cost around 60% of what this new model will set you back
2017 Civics are great!
Have to say after watching this video, i had a day off today, so took a trip to the local honda dealer, tried both the HR-V and civic, as the new HR-V looks smart aswell. similar tech except only a 1.5 litre engine instead of the 2.0 litre which is a shame.
But that civic is a blast of a car, only had it for about 50-60 minutes but did plenty of real world driving, in that time, motorway, back roads and dual carriageway, I got the salesman to reset the MPG to see what i would get, using cruise control, @70mph, 62MPG, when went back roads and dual carriageway increased to 66/67MPG which i thought was decent. and that included a couple of nice bits of twisty roads and straights where can actually have some fun. overtaking was easy in the civic.
sadly the 1.5ltr engine and or the fake rev/gear shifts put me off the HR-V otherwise, lovely car to drive but overtaking and or accelerating up a slip lane to the motorway just didnt fill me with confidence. had it had the same 2.0 litre engine and sounds if would be a difficult choice between the 2, as due to the new civics size (for me its no longer mid sized hot hatch more large hatch, so octavia/passat territory), the HR-V would probably be the more practical car.
I'm currently driving the E-HEV civic. It is really efficient. I live in the city with moderate traffic everyday. On an 18" wheel I manage around 20-24Km/l. Also for long distance travel, it is way better then EV.
Thanks. Interesting. BTW it's the depreciation and cost of capital (eg loan rate) that should be considered wrt more expensive purchase price not the purchase price itself... presuming one plans to sell it at some point. Feel like it's not an accident that super chartering is priced close to cost of petrol but feel a bit cheated that it is. Solar and home charging way to go.
My last two civics (2010 &2015) were the1.8l petrol , both easily achieved 45 mpg . Honda usually quite accurate with their figures. Out of interest I wonder what the old vauxhall ampere cost to run ??
Funny you should ask.. ours has done 110k miles at 225mpg from new, plus alot of electricity. It's ok when we can charge for free from the solar PV
Interesting video. I can't really work out the calculation for PHEV though.
If you are charging the 12.4kWh battery from 0-100% everynight, that means you are using up the battery every single day. If we take the average pure EV mile/kWh for calculation, that means running 37.2 miles on electricity per day, 13,578 miles per year (more than the stated 10,000 miles per year).
I wonder how often you would need to charge in real life to achieve the Astra's 256 mpg, 10,000 miles per year?
charge it every time the battery runs out eventually you’ll get 200+mpg 🤣
You make a very good point, especially given that the average car commute in the UK is a 23 mile round trip with perhaps a school runs and shopping trips thrown in, most car owners do under 200 miles a week, well within the range of the (in this case) 12.4 kWh battery. We've had a Kia e-Niro for 4 years now and the 64 kWh battery is far more than we need for a typical week of driving. We plug in once a week when it gets to about 30% SOC and take it to 80%. We go to 100% SOC about 10 times a year before setting off on longer journeys and as a one car household this car does all of our average 12,000 annual mileage. There is no way any HEV is cheaper to run than the equivalent EV.
If I was in the market for a new car today and charging at home isn't an option for me, the new Civic would be on top of my list. It's about as efficient as a Corolla Hybrid, but looks a lot better, has a nicer interior and the CVT doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner thanks to the fake gearshifts.
I can't agree with you more.
I agree with you but the problem is that the Civic it's not a hatchback and not an SW. Plus this is too expensive, according to Honda we need to spend a lot of money to have good fuel consumption. Honda needs the same exact technology with the 1.5l engine and 130-140hp
To be fair the new Corolla update has gone a long way in reducing engine cvt drone. Corolla and the Civic are both excellent cars.
They are both the same. Almost similar drive train wise and you will get the same noise from both if you want full beans.
Not sure why it's an issue tbh. And none of them have a 'cvt'. It's either serial engine -motor-motor-wheels or direct/parallel engine - wheels/ engine + motor - wheels.
They just sound like a CVT (belt and pulley) car because the engine rpm is constant.
@@andreiarama8745 Am I missing something? The Civic is definitely a hatchback.
I cant wait for your review of new CRV Phev! C’mon mate! Your review is best of the best! So please make it happen!
I had a BMW G20 320i and now driving a Tesla model Y. The annual service cost quite a bit and all the oil, filter, brake pad, transmission fluid… etc. basically doesn’t exist anymore on my Tesla. The ride and build quality it’s 8/10 for the BMW and 6/10 Tesla. The tech, software update and power, can’t compare btw two, it’s night and day…I miss my G20, however I have no regrets to go with Tesla due to the running cost n tech.
Why is electricity in the UK many times more expensive than North America? In British pounds (roughly) it costs 5-7 “pents” per KWH where I live, when charging at home. making an ev cost a tiny fraction of the civic (fuel wise).
The government here is in ties with oil companies or something, I don't really know, it's all broken at the moment. And to think, BP used to belong to the government, electricity could have been dirt cheap!
Because our UK government work against the people instead of working with us. It's taken me 40 years to realise this but ultimately they see the residents as the cash cow and try to figure out ways of generating money from the residents rather than finding ways of making the country better for the residents and giving us a fair deal. It's really that simple. Everything is setup to extract as much money as possible from the people.
Because they shut coal fired power stations bar 1 and the Government's dash for Gas in the 90's, in the old days if gas went up more coal was burnt until gas came down, now you have this green shit and war so energy is expensive,
simples really.
I note he never stated which mode he had the Civic in. The Civic has 4 Individual/Economy/Normal and Sport
I think it's fair to say he ran it in Economy mode to get the 80 plus MPG
As an owner of the Civic ehev I really don't think I would want to run it in Economy mode all the time - the car is too much fun to do that
2023 Honda Civic hybrid or Toyota Prius are the cars of the year for ordinary people or taxies. But because of insane dealer mark up, I hope I can get one of them next year at MSRP
I think at highway speeds the honda two stage hybrid system engaged a direct clutch to wheels to engine above 65mph which lowers the fuel economy to about 35-40mpg. It is most efficient below that speeds. In UK/Europe on smaller roads it might make sense though
EVs are also not efficient at highway speeds, so what gives?
The Honda Powertrain does this where it is more efficient to run the engine directly than the e motor.
Got Civic 14' 1.6 dtec for the last 2 years done 24k trouble free with 65 mpg average. Maybe not the best handling or fun to drive but can't complain at all with it's reliability and economy
Unfortunately in Ireland, when Honda decided to finally offer The Honda Cvic it was for 47,000 Euro, 2,000 Euro more expensive than a Tesla Model 3 RWD after their price cuts. For my use case with my commute it would be 2,385 euro more expensive to run. (I do around 50,000 kms per year though). The fact is the previous generation Civic was more than 10,000 euro cheaper, if the new Civic was being offered here for 37 or 38,000 Euro than it would have much more sense. It's a pity I really liked the look of it and it's tech. I have a 9th generation Civic now which has been very reliable, would have changed but not at that price.
Actually beggars belief that does. The Toyota Corolla hasn't been outside the top ten best selling cars in Ireland for decades and what do Honda do with a direct competitor but go and price the Civic over 10 grand more than it. Talk about dead on arrival.
Don't forget the cost of DEPRECIATION and REPAIR or BATTERY replacement after 8y/warranty expired. Most regular hybrid cost less than £3000, but plugin C class is easily $12 000 or more and $26 000 on the BEV Benz. I know that TOYOTA HSD has 15 years/unlimited BATTERY Warranty.
Excellent work, absolutely enjoy your content. I already had a bias for hybrid vehicles, and now I feel totally justified.
Many used hybrids are an excellent deal over brand new EV's 👌
Good Morning from Los Angeles! Thank you for the great vids and entertainment.
You seem to have added vat on the electric at 20% in some of the calcs, I thought vat on UK domestic electric supply was charged at 5%?
Apologies. As some of you have spotted, the cost for charging an EV for 10,000 miles at the 32.42ppkwh rate should be £1,134 not £1,296. The VAT rate for domestic electricity is charged at 5%. -Rory
Well, you can also have better number for EVs if you handle them at low speeds, I have a 2023 Nissan Leaf and on average I get 4.5 KWh per mile and even got a maximum of 6 KWh per mile, really love your videos. Cheers from Florida.
❤
I think the bottom line is, if you’re in the position to take advantage of overnight cheap charging, EV is the way to go, otherwise you’re probably better off with a hybrid… and plug in hybrids are still pointless…
Succinctly put... 👍
The best plug in Hybrid is one of the first. Vauxhall Ampera. Does 50mpg without charging, and has a small 10kwh battery which can be done overnight.
@@_TheElMan and they are really popular!
I’m much better comparison would be the model 3 SR+. Same price to buy, 4m per kWh is EASILY achievable and on Octopus Go’s current 9p rate would be MUCH cheaper. Also slightly staggered that you think that “just” a 20% saving isn’t worth considering. On the above date it would be well over 40% cheaper to go BEV if you have a drive.
Until charging infrastructure catches up (especially in condos) I think hybrids make more sense for a lot of people.
Thanks for that deep analysis for a variety of use cases! It was very enlightening.
You really need to factor in maintenance costs and expected residuals to make a proper comparison.
The battery pack in a full ev will still have value long after the car itself is no more.
One thing that never seems to be considered with these comparisons is the PHEV doesn't just switch from electric to gas engine exclusively. All PHEVs can operate as a hybrid as well thus achieving a much better fuel efficiency.
Don't forget the effect of the increased day tarrif on these special EV rates compared to a standard day tarrif. I worked out that my electrify bill would go up by around 800 pounds per year before I even started charging the car!!
But you'd probably be saving over £2k a year by no longer having to buy petrol, so that would more than compensate. And after a couple of years, get £4k's worth of solar on your roof to reduce your reliance on the grid.
@@Brian-om2hh but then I still have to charge the car, so in effect charging the car would cost me about 1250 a year against a fuel bill of 2k. Yes abit of a saving but alot of restrictions that come with it and the increase in cost of buying an EV over a standard ice car. Maintenance savings help out abit but still no way a valid proposition for me. I was more making the point that people don't necessarily realise that going onto an EV tarrif will increase your home electricity bill in other areas so it's something to consider
Less if you have solar panels and often get free electricity during the day. Some people swap tariffs for summer and winter.
@@Brian-om2hh Exactly! The correlation between EV ownership and domestic solar is around 30% in the UK, last time I looked at the stats. When you ditch fossil fuels and go electric you always have that option to offset your 'fuel' costs from your roof. I put up 8 solar panels a few months after getting my EV in March 2019...then added 3 more last year which given our average annual driving of 19,000 km (I live in France)...covers all the driving from sunlight plus a bit left over. This is an option a fossil fuel car driver never has of course.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 impressive
I’ve owned multiple EVs because of the benefit in kind tax break. Let me explain why they aren’t the future.
I am fortunate to be able to charge at night at home and have faffed around with my charger to only charge between 00:30 and 04:30. So running costs for me are cheaper than a ICE car.
HOWEVER…EVs are:
- useless in the winter - 50% of your range disappears meaning the cost saving is offset and you’re constantly worried about your range and whether or not you should have the heater on
- terrible for the environment - they create 3x as much Co2 to produce given all the expensive minerals. They mice through tyres each of which uses 8 gallons of oil to produce.
- public charging is expensive
- public charging never charges at the speed your car is capable of, so when you’re told it’s 20 mins to charge to 80% it’s 45 mins minimum
- we are generating a massive issue for the future in un-recyclable lithium batteries
- to use a public charger you need to give more data than opening a bank account and even then, half of them fail to charge
- they’re heavy and boring to drive…it’s like driving a heavy laptop - there’s no soul
My Prius PHEV regularly returns 60-70mpg when in Hybrid mode and then I’ve got the battery for short journeys or driving through town etc. I’ve previously owned and EV but would take the flexibility of a deliberately efficient hybrid over an EV any day. Hybrids not built for pure efficiency don’t make a lot of sense to me tbh. I would probably go with just a hybrid over a plug in hybrid next time (the extra costs isn’t really worth it imho) and the Civic looks like a solid choice along with the new Corolla.
Can I ask how often you charge your Prius if running in hybrid mode? And how many miles you do per year? I think the calculation in this video was a bit off for PHEV.
@@tfzsl I used to do most of my mileage in EV mode but now I don't have a charger at home so just charge once a week at a public charger (28p kw/h). My car has done over 60k miles and the lifetime average mpg is about 110mpg as I used to do so many miles in EV mode. I guess the point is that the cost of running a PHEV is a blend of EV costs and Hydrid running costs depending on how you are able to use the EV mode as a % of your total mileage. As such it's almost impossible to make a comparison as everyone's use will be different.
A most enlightening video presentation. Thanks!
I think run your house on your own solar. Plug in your EV with bidirectional charging to make your house/ car combo worthwhile. Being energy independent is the way forward but only with a hefty outlay. Either way they have you. That Civic is a nice car- wait a year or two until they offer an actually affordable APR rate and they'll either lower the price or offer you a £1000 deposit contribution, let all the other mugs pay the premium in the first year, if Honda fail to sell to a high price then they'll start putting on offers. Wait.
Solar powered car chargers. 😂😂....
new viewer. Love seeing Rory again, haven't seen you since Top Gear.
When you really get down to the math EV isn’t always the best option. It truly comes down to how you use it. I’m in the USA and live in arizona. We don’t have many public chargers available so you are relegated to home charge g
Its not all about the benefits Ev could be better for our lungs
@@vendel5667I thought you said it wasn't all about the benefits? Besides, this person from Arizona still needs to be able to get from A to B, if they can't do that, an EV is useless to them, there's no two ways about it. It's just true that the charging network just isn't where it needs to be.
@@Leon_George They never disclosed how far they commute daily. If the daily commute is enough for 1 charge and they can charge at home I really dont see an issue with poor infrastructure when the vast majority of people rarely go beyond 200 miles a trip.
Surely in Arizona if you have at least 7kwh solar installation you'll be getting paid for power rather than paying
@@vendel5667 But not for the kids that mine the stuff!!!!
Now I'm retired, I charge my 9 month old Kuga phev in the garage every 2nd or 3rd night for about a 40 mile range. This is my 2nd Kuga 2.5 phev and love it.
Thank God for this video. I was on the verge of buying an EQS, but the fuel cost convinced me to go with the Civic. Not to mention the cradle-to-grave carbon footprints.
My Toyota Aygo: Cheap to buy, cheap to insure, cheap to maintain, 477 miles of range, 55 miles to the gallon, £0 road tax, fill up anywhere undercover in less than 5 minutes, no need for apps on my phone to locate a charger that when I get there it doesn't work, no range anxiety, etc. Who the hell needs a battery powered car?
It's an interesting take when hybrids are getting this efficient, but like you mentioned towards the end of the video, maintenance is a cause for concern. Usually the cells in smaller battery packs in hybrids cycle a lot more than larger packs in EV that only cycle once per the vehicle's range, and the packs in hybrid tend to wear out at around 100-150k miles. So for a long term ownership point of view, it would take a lot less than 36 years for that gap to close, especially if you add in the maintenance needed by the ICE part of the powertrain. In the case of a Model 3, there are high mileage cases such as a Canadian owner experiencing only 20% degradation after a whopping 310k miles, which is still very usable. We can safely assume that long range EV packs will last the life of the vehicle. Personally, if I had to choose between a hybrid and an EV that are somewhat close in lifetime ownership costs for a daily driver, I'd always go for the EV. An skateboard-type EV like the Tesla or Hyundai/Kia (not like Nissan Leaf or BMW i4/i7 that share modular platforms with ICE models) would always give you more usable cabin and/or storage space than anything with an ICE with the same exterior footprint, and also, as you mentioned, lower lifetime CO2 emission from manufacturing to retirement. Plus, a lot less time wasted getting the car serviced. At the moment, the convenience factor still mostly depends on if charging at home is an option. Hopefully as our public infrastructure improves, both from number of public chargers and cleaner sources of electricity, the cost for public charging will plummet.
The Honda's run on, essentially, car batteries for their hybrid ability, that is what makes this system so clever and why I decided to get a Jazz MHEV. Getting 60mpg (with ease) and not having to worry about charging... it's a really clever and very smart system. Yes, the motors might cost more if needing replacing, but any engineer will tell you that electromotors are far more durable than any ICE.
press cntrl and f to see my comment arguement for a much better combustion electric balance . insurance costs are higher on electric cars because battery fires are more intense and last long time even after washing them away for a bit with a lot of water, they could have the battery eject itself away from car in crash , structure around it can have it slide down a upside down ramp to the side of the car so it stays away from passengers, bu titll have to not cause probelsm to other drivrs who cant brake quik enough to avoid crashing into battery. lubrication maintianence is high er non ev but ev are heavier so tries and brakes go bad quicker
also, big batteyr means exppnentially less effceint, so the more energy going in and out the battery means worse battery degradation, but more parraleles of battery reduce battery degradation... so more battery is not better, theres a balance to be had.
Toyota has proven that small batteries specifically designed for their use in hybrid applications last longer than you want to own the car. Non issue.
@@TsLeng Exactly. It's almost like Honda considered all of this when designing this Civic. 😁
Cracking story, Rory and you validate all of us who don't succumb to the current EV model of costs/environment story, especially for Chinese EVs which are manufactured using coal-fired electricity and all LIons use dodgy lithium mining techniques. Great stuff, more like this, please. I like doing the sums to get the point across, it is the only way to convince some of the reality of EV ownership. Thanks for not mentioning the 0-60 time or how fast the Honda is, that is not what 95% of driving in the UK is about these days.
I think this depends on what your average daily mileage is. I’ve had a plug in hybrid since December and only filled the tank up twice. I’ve driven 1700miles . Cost me around 80p every other day to charge it. Octopus also do a ev economy tariff which is 10p/kWh
I am on Octopus Go which has a night rate 5p/kWh
Well said, I think Rory is using a higher price than Octopus are charging. I don't live in the UK but am a member of the Kia Niro EV (e-Niro) Facebook Group based in UK and people there are still getting 10p or less I believe. The 3 miles/kWh Rory uses based on the Merc is not a fair comparison. Over 4 years winter/summer driving my car is getting 4.2 miles/kWh so the Civic should be compared with this or the Tesla M3 which is at least as good as the Kia in terms of efficiency. The other thing he did not factor in is what all EV drivers learn to do...what I call 'power grazing'...picking up charge here and there, supermarkets, car parks etc which are sometimes FOC...last year I got about 8% of my driving done from 'Tesco sources' lets call call them...and every little helps. 😊
How much do you value the waiting time and attention effort you have to put in plug-in and EV daily use to get to their best use case?
This is the closest any reviewer has gone to talk about the regenerate efficiency. Every electric car I've driven with BG has been a joke. I think jumping to full electric without learning what hybrids can do was a bad idea. The Honda is obviously generating more electricity back to its battery pack then other models.
It's what Toyota has been doing since 1997. Nissan has also joined the party with its e-power hybrids and also certain Ford models.
C'mon City!!!
Consider with plug-in hybrids and full hybrids you still have an engine which needs yearly servicing, that's an extra cost, and a large one at that. Also, engine issues are a real possibility, a sensor problem can quickly set you back a few hundred £.
Great video and a great car good old Honda engineering 👍 👌 thanks Rory respect sir 🙏
Interesting.
The decision I have to make next time is to choose between hybrid, electric, or if the cut off date gets put back…another regular petrol car.
Obviously for around 48% of U.K. users, a conventional hybrid (not plug in) makes the most sense because no driveway for charging at home.
This is an eye opener. Whether it is worth buying an EV or hybrid vehicle depends on your personal preferences and needs. However, if you are buying EV or hybrids because they are environmentally friendly, you should ask yourself: Is it really worth it to own an EV when they are charged from fossil based energy?
only 48% is fossil fule based generation based in the UK. 52% renewables and nuclear.
As if "only" 48% wasnt horrible enough
@@someguy9520 would you prefer 100%?
@@italianjob4947 if i was a oil billionaire, yes
But srsly, its nothing to be proud of
Austria has 61% hydro, 10% wind, 3% solar, 6% bio gas. So 80-81% renewable with the rest being a EU electricity mix. The last coal burning plant was closed 2020
And we're not known for being pioneers in eco anything
Yawn. Stupid objection and comment. Even when charged on the dirtiest current grids an EV still emits less than an equivalent ICE car…and it’s not in the city which means less people killed.
The grid’s getting cleaner so it gets better and better over time in terms of emissions.
This is my first visit to this site. I have subscribed and will recommend it because the presenter is direct, clear and does the arithmetic so we do not have to. To give the weights of the vehicles would be very useful.
Certainly 'pure' EV is being rammed in our faces but if one considers the weight and volatility of batteries, as well as deterioration it would appear that dirty energy generation in most places and the eco-inimical making of pure EVs makes hybrids superior in every way. Not plug-in hybrids because of the type, size and weight of their battery packs.
Further, the joint studies by Japanese and Chinese economists several years ago (on a vast scale) showed that gaseous hydrogen as a bi-product of many industrial processes, as well as dedicated "colors" of hydrogen production could replace petroleum by 2030 with a margin to spare. This caused the PCR to subsidize EV companies to compete and make a 'single economics generation' of EVs then some firms would make occasional EVs for city use and others would adapt their successful models to hydrogen hydrogen ICEs. Some companies would fail and possible be absorbed. In economics a 'generation' means 20 years maximum from start of production to end of product life, with the proviso that some EVs would build in adaptation and those remaining with urban EVs would swap battery packs for a set warranty period. The thinking here is that when batteries end their useful lives, the rare earth elements would be recycled at 55% or greater.
The PRC also bought licenses to make hydrogen ICEs at home and commonize aspects of drivetrains. South Korean manufacturers have stakes in this Asian plan but some EV models will continue for general sale, mainly in the small car sector and people carriers.
PRC exported some EV brands starting in late 2022 but Q3 2023 was the target for open sales worldwide --which explains the Chinese EV flood. It not a flood so much as a product range release which is unlikely to be repeated.
If western manufacturers made EV decisions without proper planning it was their own fault in a free market.
My EV costs 1.6p per mile to run, doubtful any ICE car can come close.
-> The last 12 months : 12,000 miles has cost me £198 in energy for my car [Octopus Go 7.5p kWh overnight charging along with charging some use off home solar]
My EV is leased through Salary Sacrifice, so due to the low BIK, costs me less per month than any other equivalent 400bhp ICE car.
Also, having an EV provides access to Octopus Go (mentioned above), which has saved us £700 on home energy bills through the Winter (Nov - Feb) by being able to run the house purely on 7.5p Kwh (battery storage) vs 34p kWh on the SVR unit rate. ⚡☀👍
Solar and battery storage is saving us between £200 - £250 per month on energy bills, BUT the loan to get it only costs us £180 per month (expected payback on the solar is 4-5 years)
So quids in all around 😊
what car did you get through your salary sacrifice? as thats the 1 piece of information you excluded to mention.
@@barnoslogik : The car - Polestar 2, about to be replaced by a BMW iX.
@@SDK2006b polestart 2 is a nice looking car, i have to say, why are you swapping if dont mind my asking? what is the BMW giving you more than the Polestar 2?
reason i ask i'm currently looking at the salalry sacrifice options at work so both the civic and the polestar 2 came up so hoping to do a bit of car shopping soon, but would rather a real world experience of them over the salesmans spiel.
@@barnoslogik - I've had the Polestar 2 three years this October and it's going back [leased]. It's been the best car i've had. The only downside is the cramp rear when carrying adults, so I had a Polestar 3 on order but this won't be ready on time, so went for a BMW iX.
The P2 is amazing though - fast & quiet with amazing tech, gadgets and spec. Only thing I missed is a rear wiper and more rear space.
Efficiency isn't the best but the design and interior quality (for the price) makes up for this.
how much were your batteries? interesting input but i think you are an edge case.
I have a small EV and love it. Costs about 10p per mile if I charge from home during the day and about 4p per mile if I charge overnight (I have 5 hours cheap rate overnight). As it’s a company car and I get a very cheap lease with current tax rules it’s a lot cheaper than any other type of car for me.
However I totally agree with this video that for a lot of people a Hybrid makes sense and they shouldn’t be banned outright by 2035 based on current technology. People should have a choice. If EV tech and infrastructure gets to the point where it makes no sense to have other thymes of vehicles then fair enough but taking away any choice doesn’t make sense to me.
Not only that but the convenience of not having to plug the Civic in will make it a lot easier for regular people to get used to electrified cars as we're making the shift.
Especially for people who live in flats and have nowhere to plug in their ev
I find it terribly inconvenient to plug my EV in to recharge it at home on my drive. It takes me a ridiculous six seconds to plug it in before I go to bed, and a further six seconds to unplug it when I get up in the morning. I do this every 7 to 8 days. I spend less time plugging my EV in to charge, than you do driving to petrol stations to get fuel......
@@sugarrfree If they live in a flat, then they also don't have a petrol pump outside either. Yet they have petrol cars.....
Rory-great, well done review. Also a great ambassador for auto trade
The question is why electricity is so expensive in the UK
agreed, i think if they want to push EVs on us, then the cost to charge them should be fixed for the next 10 years at a serverely reduced rate, as in less than 10p per kWh
@@barnoslogik I think it is still possible to get a rate less than 10p per kwh (it could be from EDF) but I haven't checked in a while. I'm with Octopus Intelligent, and I get 6 hours per night at 10p per kwh. The daytime rate is slightly up on the norm, but if you can cope with that, or have the means to offset it (solar or a storage battery) then it can work out ok. You also should factor in the saving from not having to buy petrol anymore. I've saved over £4k in the last 30 months, for example.
Because of dash for Gas in the 90's and the shutting of coal fire power stations and then came a war with a supplier of are Gas then gas became the bad guy but then came all this Eco shite.
And we're where we are.
Very very good overview on the real calculations.
That is exactly what I was looking for! Thank you Rory for doing this and making it very clear. EV are not cheap to run indeed...
My Kia eNiro costs me 3p per mile to run, charged at home. I can cover 1000 miles for less than £40.
@@Brian-om2hh Exactly what I was thinking Brian - in my Ioniq I regularly see 5.5 to 6.5 miles per kWh. Just today three of us were in the car for a 65 mile journey, we had the AC on at 18 degrees and ventilated seats etc yet we still averaged 5.8 miles per kwh. Paying 9.5p per kwh on the e-on drive tariff the cost for that trip was about £1.06!
I love how the review compares a Civic, which in fairness I do like and is probably the most fuel efficient hybrid on sale at the moment, against a car several classes above it, and one which isn’t efficient at all for an EV at 3.3 miles per kwh!
A comparison with a Niro or an Ioniq would have been a far closer match in terms of car size and class and would have shown the actual savings possible against the Civic.
I took a picture yesterday in my PHEV because I managed to go 100km at 0.5L/100km with the way my day worked out. That's 470 US MPG. Those outlandish figures are possible in the real world. My average overall usage that I haven't reset since I got it (at 32K KM now) is 1.7L/100km (138 USMPG). As a gas mitigation vehicle they are a pretty fantastic technology.
I pay 33p per KWh. So compared to my current Mk08 fiesta ST. That gets 40mpg.
Overall. Cost Per mile. Cost is THE SAME EV to a petrol car. Apart from the fact EVs are sooooo expensive
but Phil, one of the first things an EV owner usually does, is to switch to an off-peak tariff. I have Octopus Intelligent, which gives me 6 hours a night at 10p per kwh. Sure, the daytime cost is slightly more, but in the 30 months I've had my EV I haven't had to buy a drop of petrol (apart from for my mower) and I've saved over £4k in that time.
for a PHEV running in hybrid mode, whats the max range where you get great fuel economy before the battery runs out? No one seems to quote this, it would be useful to know.
Wait untill the only choice is an EV ...those charging rates are gonna Rocket !
it woon't.....
Just like what we're paying for petrol now
Why? Millions of people have used cheap rate tariffs for electricity for 50+ years. And I suppose petrol and diesel hasn't ever increased in price then? There is actually a technical reason why energy companies offer cheap rate electricity. They actually *want* and need people to use electricity through the night. I'll leave you to research why.....
Excellent video as always Rory, so informative. The Honda Civic is very impressive, definitely worth considering for those out car shopping.
Dang 80+ mpg is pretty insane, I thought the 72 mpg my 2015 honda fit hybrid was good. Well it still is impressive, particularly when you factor in it cost us only 13k NZD.
Rory is a Great reviewer. love this video for its ease of breaking down a complicated comparison into easy to process information. very helpful. Thank you
Only 40litre tank on civic! I’m probably going to feel like I’m filling it up more often ( even though fills will be cheaper) very thought provoking video
how will you feel like your filling up more regularly, if a driver can get the 60mpg mentioned, a 40litre/8.8g (8.4g is 38.2litres) tank is doing about 528 miles, if you can get the 80mpg figure that then increases to 704 miles, if you can get that 84.5mpg consistantly it would be 743 miles, you would have to be driving a lot and driving very badly to have to be filling up more. if they only achieve the 55mpg thats claimed that still gives you about 484 miles.
now the other thing is unless you're doing a long journey, personally i dont like more than half a tank of fuel in the car as its unnecessary weight in the car, but that would still be giving me somewhere between 240 and 370 miles depending on how and where i drove, and that would cost approx £30 per half a tank. for me thats about 10 days of driving.
@@barnoslogik You certainly won't get 80MPG.
@@italianjob4947 you will in stop start driving as the petrol engine is hardly ever needed. The battery charges every time you take your foot off the gas and it charges rapid. So everytime you slow down you're getting free fuel basically, which then covers the next bit of accelerating you need to do. Rinse and repeat. How do I know? I had a Clio E-Tech for a few days as a hire car and that's exactly how it behaved. Take one for a drive and you'll be impressed.
@@kenzohkw I don't need to take one for a test drive as I have one. The average MPG over the last 6 months is 44.
Also missing out the standing daily charge!
When comparing the electric cars or plug in cars.
You don't use electricity at home for anything else?
You'd be paying the standing charge if you didn't have an EV, and just had an ICE vehicle. Unless you live in a cave ?! 🤣
You pay that anyway, whether you have an EV or not.
These new hybrids from honda are amazing. Almost as efficient as toyotas without the annoying cvt.
The bit missing from this comparison is the maintenance costs. Full EV wins that comparison every time.
Also ignores the fact that hybrids aren't going to get cheaper to buy but EVs will.
Also overstates the cost for home charging in best case, which is 10p.
At 3m/kWh, that's £333.33 a year.
For a more efficient EV doing 4m/kWh, that's £250 a year.
Yes, a hybrid like this is cheaper for some people at the moment.
But when EVs are cheaper to buy (which they will be), cheaper to maintain (they already are) and cheaper to fuel (more people with solar and battery storage, more renewables on the grid), full EV takeover is inevitable.
The problem is the same now as it's been for years - it's too expensive to be green.
EV adoption would be simple and we'd all get over the charging and range issues instantly if it was cheaper than petrol or diesel.
It’s only relatively expensive at the moment because electric prices are abysmal in the UK. The price of the cars are starting to be solved such as MG4 and the upcoming ID2 which is meant to start at 22k.
Honda and Nissan’s hybrid model seemed to be the best in the market today.
My EV (Kia eNiro) has averaged 4 miles per kWh over the last 10,000 miles (including this very cold winter). I also pay 7.5p per kWh on my overnight tariff with octopus. Calculating that, it cost me just under £190 to run the car over the past 10,000 miles which I don't think anyone can argue with. You can't compare an AMG with a regular eco car. A Mercedes CLA35 will give you less than 30mpg which is also double or more the cost of the civic...
It's really hard to get an accurate comparison, fuel prices are always changing. We are a two car household as we both work in different jobs and need to commute. One car is electric and our EV tariff is 0.079p per KW at night (midnight to 05:00). Works out really cheap and we always fight to take the electric car, such a good drive. The other is a diesel, we do 20k + miles a year in this one, and it covers long drives without giving range anxiety. Perfect combo for us i think. You can spend all day trying to compare, and get no where.
Mad stats here 😰
If by mad you mean badly calculated, then correct!
The engine runs as a series hybrid until it reaches about 40 MPH, when a clutch engages the engine into a sort of "6th gear" to expand the engine's efficiency envelope.
I like the idea of balance but for now most EV drivers use overnight tariffs and some like me also have Solar PV and batteries so that makes our two EVs a lot cheaper to run (my estimate is just 25% of what i spent on ICE cars pa). yes if you rely on public charging the maths is different but this is a factor of the state of the current energy market. So for those people buy an efficient hybrid for now but keep an eye out for what will happen in the EV market
My Honda civic diesel easily gets 60 to 70mpg and is a great drive.
I worked out that it's only slightly more in fuel costs for the miles I do.
EVs have less maintenance cost? I mean, that's only because they haven't been around very long. Wait till their massive electronic and electrical systems start to fail -- especially in the Chinese EVs that people are so "excited" about.
and the electrical systems in ICE car never go wrong or cause issues then? My neighbour's Nissan Quashqai sure did......
@@Brian-om2hh oh they do, they're becoming overly complicated. But the extent of their complication is less than EVs. So if you're having a headache with the electrical systems of gas cars, just imagine what it would be like with EVs.
Night rate on octopus EV tariff is 7.5p not 16p so it's actually half the cost to run than the figures you provided
How exactly? Yes for some people maybe. I pay 5p kWh for off peak power. An MG4 would cost me £3 to charge from 0-100%.
what do you pay for thru the day - if you are still on a fixed, this is irrelevant to you
@@pmr01 I'm in Bulgaria, so my rates are fixed by the government, 11p daytime and 5p btw 11pm and 7am (inc. vat). Plus I have 7kwh solar installation which is a hybrid system, and sells almost everything to the grid at 15p kWh, so I don't pay much for power averaged for the year
@@alexanderstefanov6474 you also have Happy Grill restaurant! Love that place! Was there a few years ago for a holiday and loved it. Glad to see the government there are helping people out rather than robbing them like here in the UK.
@@kenzohkw you don't want to know about the government here at the moment to be honest. The situation isn't rosy in Bulgaria, but we're hoping it will improve after the next round of elections next week. Still the fact a lot of us aren't even considering coming back to the UK is a good indicator of how bad things are there.
'Greener at a tailpipe'.........exactly, we're definitely not talking about the manufacture of the batteries, the finite resources that go into them (there for the more batteries produced through time the more expensive they will become as resources will become scarce), recycling of these things.
No manufacturer wants to talk about that.