Scottie Pippen was an amazing two way player that helped MJ win six titles, and also helped to form one of the most intimidating defensive teams of all time. Scottie Pippen was not the sole reason why Jordan had a 1-9 playoff record by 1987 like many want you to believe, and today we look at what else contributed to that so you can get the full story. *Hit the bell next to my name if you want notifications on my vids* Business email: Theweightliftingcentral@Gmail.com Patreon: patreon.com/dom2k16 Facebook: facebook.com/dom2k16 Twitter: twitter.com/dom_2k Instagram: instagram.com/dom_2k Snapchat: Dom_2k
When one of the greatest calls you “god in disguise” in your 2nd year off a broken foot...enough said. What Jordan didnt do was lose games he was supposed to win. And Jean didn’t pick his teams each yr. He worked with what he had and made them better. Yes, when Grant left, they got Rodman. That’s about it. MJ didn’t even want Kukoc b4 he left for baseball.
Jordan didn't lose games he was supposed to win but he did win games he wasn't supposed to. In 1989 nobody picked the Bulls to beat Cleveland then he broke their franchise for life. He would have been in the finals that year if down 2-0 to the Bulls, Isaiah and Joe Dumars didn't come up with the Jordan rules at 2am in the morning. They couldn't stop him even though he had a real young team so they came up with a system for all players on the team to collapse on Jordan every time he took the ball because nobody else on the Bulls could hurt them at that point. They fouled Jordan so hard it would be an ejection and a suspension in today's game but not back then. He took hard fouls like that from the whole Pistons team because they all had 6 fouls to use to stop Jordan. He still played great but nobody else could get the job done when Jordan was triple teamed. It was 1991 when Phil Jackson had his philosophy firmly instilled and Tex Winter's Triangle offense was running smooth. Pippen and Grant were mature enough to help Jordan win and Michael himself had been getting his whole team involved for 4 quarters so they were all ready to make big shots late when Jordan was double and triple teamed. At that point the Pistons went down 4-0 to the Bulls when they next lost the first game of the finals only to sweep the Lakers on the next 4. That loss in game 1 was the only game they lost in the playoffs that year.
Youre dumb... Bron was only two times the favorite to win the finals. So I dont know what you talking bout taking shots at LeBron by saying MJ didnt lose games he was supposed to win.
what is lechoke without wade bosh and Kyrie???? 0 championship. even wade can win it all with washed up shaq and Kobe can win against Boston big 4 with average Pau gasol. lol lechoke aka I only score 8 points in 2011 Nba finals
protosszergterran bro what is michael jordan without pippen, rodman, grant, kerr, kukoc, armstrong. Would of never been 6-0 in the finals just saying You just cant win a ring without another good player with you
I love how people act like when Pippen was drafted he was already SCOTTIE PIPPEN. He wasn't top 50 player of all times from the get go.Same with Phil Jackson. He was known only because he played with the Knicks in the beginning. But people love saying MJ needed best coach of all times and best defender evah to get out the first round. MJ wouldn't have won without them but they also wouldn't have go down as best in history if it wasn't for Jordan.
120593Gian Thank you... Phil Jackson came to the Bulls as a rookie coach who had no coaching success at all.... He became Phil Jackson by winning with Jordan...
& People act like Jordan was an NBA Champion by himself, 6-0 from the get go. It all started w/ those narratives that tried to make him be seen as all winning & untouchable. He had it tough early on & had to get help to win it all. Nothing wrong w/ that, its a team sport. & at the end of the day Phil implemented the perfect system for MJ & the bulls.
People also don't realize Jordan helped create what Scottie became. It was noted that after shootarounds and practice Jordan would play 1 on 1 with Scottie sometimes for hours, and this is what upped Pippen's game on both ends.
87 88 and 89 Pippen wasn't even a top 3 player on the team.. It was Grant and Hodges that were the next 2 best players... Jordan had to push Pippen to the player he ultimately became in the 90s... Vs the Bad Boy Pistons Scottie Pippen was literally the Bulls punching bag and got bullied and humiliated.. Jordan always had to defend him like an older brother.... Jordan made Pippen to the top 50 player and the HOF he is now
@@MrLebron2343 if itwasn't for MJ's hardwork tutelage and nurturing Pippen wouldn't probably the player he is now, assuming he went down to another team, you think he will get better or the fact he be known or recognized as a top 50?, Jordan made him who he is! Along with everyone in the team.. If Jordan wasn't pippens side no one will notice him..facts! But, if MJ doesn't had pippen his still Jordan, he can have others replaced pippen, nurture and polished that player to be his aide and still go on top!
you think lebron fans don't know all of this? they do, the problem is they're in denial. they won't admit it. we're in the age of alternative facts and emotion driven stats. it's not what it is, it's what makes them feel better.
Except the vast majority of players agree that Jordan was the greatest , and many even did so before he retired in 1998 . In Lebron's case you have internet trolls and nobodies like Wright hype him .
This video proved what exactly? LeBron still had the better start to his career and Jordan only passed him when Pippen joined the team and the flagrant foul was implemented because David Stern needed to combat "the Jordan Rules". '80s fans used to trash Jordan and how he was soft. Sound familiar?
Big Fella Do you care to elaborate or are you just going to attack me to try and prove your point? What did I say that was untrue, and how was it untrue? And I really don't care if Jordan is the GOAT or not. My comment had nothing to do with that.
MJ in the playoffs before making it to the big show: vs nearly 60 wins Bucks....back to back elimination against the legendary Boston Celtics....three time losses to the Rough n tough Bad Boy Pistons. Are we to de-value those Classic teams greatness now to elevate Lebron?
@@josephjohnroe3678 doesnt help Lebron that didnt even make the playoffs this year. Cant even say that he didnt have talent. He had a bunch of young talent surrounding him but he didnt buckle down and become the team leader and mentor as he should have. Hes petty as fuck now, 2009 LBJ would slap the shit out of 2019 LBJ.
There was a lot of development by Jordan himself during those years. Mostly mental development. Once he realized he couldn't do it alone, he started trusting other players more. Became more of a leader. Yes, there is no doubt that Scottie would quickly develop into his partner, but you're right. It wasn't out of the gate and credit to Jackson too, who earned his trust and respect.
I like this comment I really do. But I want to think that as competitive Jordan was I don't think it ever crossed his mind that he couldn't do it alone. I think he was indeed grateful for any additions but I truly believe Jordan was out for blood with whoever, against whoever. It does take a team to win but a team also needs an identity and with the Bulls that was MJ. The ultimate competitor.
It wasn’t about trust his teammates actually sucked including Pippen when Pippen first got there..he made the all star team once in his first four years and that was as a reserve. Pippen overrated af
It wasn't just a case of Jordan learning to trust his teammates. It was also a matter of him getting better players. He trusted his teammates just fine in 1989 when he was switched to the point and averaged triple-doubles during his stint there. But the Bulls had a so-so record during that time. They switched him back to shooting guard and the Bulls exploded. They were just better with him as the team's first scoring option.
@@johnjones528 most people don't mention the fact that the bulls were on the process of rebuilding when they got MJ. He didn't have a FIXED team until they got Cartwright. His best teammates during the early years were Sam Vincent, Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge while he was going up against Boston in the first round.
I wish you mentioned that being 1-9 in your first 3 years is still better than LeBron not making the playoffs AT ALL until 2007. People completely leave that out
National Hating Association that's because he was untouchable, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence and witnesses that prove it. Even Shaq, Kobe, Iverson all know that MJ is a god. And they all played against MJ and Lebron. They all know that MJ is the greatest to ever play. There is literally not a single person in the world that has a right to argue with those players. They know more than everyone in this comment section combined.
ScepticalCynic facts bro Facts bro. u jus said all the Gold this thread needs. i wanna kno ur take on Kobe, Mj and LBJ. hard to find ppl that actually know ball
ScepticalCynic Bruh lebrons team was still terrible the first 2 or so years and they definitely weren't a contender after 3 or 4 What do you mean? he played against the pistons and Stockton and Malone
No hate on Pip because I love Pip but he would not have been the player he became if he wasn’t Jordan teammates. Pip literally grew and practiced with Jordan in the late 80s. With his potential and learning from Jordan, he became on of the 50 greatest players imo
Bronsexuals really try to hold being 1-9 without pippen against Jordan when it was only his first 3 seasons in the league, going up against the greatest celtics teams of all time dropping 63 points & being called GOD by lary bird lmfao
Preach. How these dumbfucks really believe that Jordan losing to those legendary Celtics teams with no help is remotely the same as Bron choking to the Mavs is beyond me lol
Nick 2k goat i stand corrected. thanks. maybe i meant to say "made the playoffs" but lebrons first 2 years in CLE, there was literally nothing. and not to mention his own team thought he was just gonna carry their bags, i swear tony battie, boozer and larry hughes were so set that lebron was their "back up" lmao but lebron did lead an NBA team to the finals against the spurs(arguably one of the greatest franchises ever) at 22 years old. idek what i was doing at 22. let alone being on the biggest stage in basketball. and about MJs first season PO run. the bulls only won 30 games that year. and got taken out in the first round in 4 by the bucks. now can you imagine if that was lebron? he would never hear the end of it. "MJ wouldnt have lost to the bucks, MJ wouldve won more than 30 games, MJ wouldve blah blah blah." And nobody acknowledges that the east was just as weak back then as it is now. i mean 30 wins and you made the POs??!! lmao
MJ did make the playoffs, but those teams werent good lol. The best he did in those first three seasons was a record of 40-42. Lebron missed the playoffs but still had a better regular season records in his first three seasons.
@@cecilmitchell6073 yea for 2 years. Lebron didnt even make playoffs first 2 years. Keep in mind Chicago was a laughing stock franchise that never won anything. The team was garbage af. it was a miracle they went to the playoffs at all. Y'alls talking points are weapons against yourselves. You keep calling everyone a dick rider while riding lebrons. Smdh
@@cecilmitchell6073 lebron been losing in the Finals waaaaay before Curry. Jordan NEVER would of let Jason fucking Terry outplay him in the finals. Lebron laid eggs in multiple finals appearances. Lebron is great. Top 6 all time. But you dont personally fuck up and disappear on the games biggest stage and be considered GOAT. Dont care who you are. You gone. Yall sound ignorant. Mjs team was garbage but EVERYONE knew he was the best during rookie season. No.one ever said that about Lebron
What mjs 1-9 playoff record and both he and kobes records as team leaders without Phil Jackson is that they are overrated....Phil made those teams special....he won nearly the same amount of games in 94 without mj and almost 2 play off series....without the the world best player. ....he took a starting lineup of Luke Walton Lamar Odom smush parker kwame brown and Kobe with no bench. to the playoffs...after a year off of coaching
Asmosis Jones you're clueless, kid. You left out a bunch of context to suit your pathetic narrative..... And you're literally acting like as if Phil was a HoF coach since day one.......what was Phil Jackson's *coaching* résumé prior before joining the bulls? I'll wait😂 Phil built his legacy/résumé *WITH* Jordan yah goof. Smh. Baseless assumptions from a casual fan. How sad.
Asmosis Jones For example, you left out the fact the Bulls were *3x DEFENDING CHAMPIONS!* I mean dude, why the hell do you and every casual moron think a 3X defending champion is suppose to crash and burn? Like seriously? And then, you also left out the fact the bulls *KEPT* all their players and added *MORE* players into the mix to help with the lose of Jordan. I can't name all of them, but I'm sure Steve Kerr, Toni kukoc, Pete Myer etc Were all added with the already established championship bulls. Listen very carefully bud, Jordan NEVER played with the supporting cast that Pippen had in the 1993/94 season. Jordan never played with Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, Armstrong, Kukoc, and Kerr, Paxson etc all at the same time. Jordan never had so many floor spacers at once, and yes floor spacers are actually very important and play a huge part in a team's W column. For example, when Ray Allen joined the 2013 Heat, they won the most games in franchise history while LeBron, Wade, and Bosh all averaged career highs in FG% while playing with Allen. That's just *ONE* player that space the floor. Lmao, so it's no surprise the bulls were good during the regular season. There's more to this story, but I'll just leave off here. Again, you left out context to suit your narrative.
@Drake Dylan Paul Lim If LeBron can accomplish 3 Championship 3peats then I WILL SAY THAT HE'S BETTER than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant... his basketball career ain't over yet.... Well see about that 🙄
Jordan 1-9 without pippen Bron fans love to bring up “1-9 without pippen” that’s the first 10 playoff games jordan played in his first 3 years in the nba between 3 playoff series. Before we get into it Lebron First game in the nba: Oct 29,2003 and his first playoff game ever played in the NBA: April 22, 2006. At least jordan was playing in the playoffs since his rookie year not taking 2.5 yrs like bron. Jordan’s first 3 seasons * 1985 NBA Season - Bucks 59-23 * (Jordans rookie season) * Bulls loses to Milwaukee Bucks (3-1) * 1986 NBA Season - Celtics 67-15 * (1 of the greatest teams ever) * Bulls loses to Boston Celtics (3-0) * 1987 NBA Season - Celtics 59-23 * (1 of the greatest teams ever) * Bulls loses to Boston Celtics (3-0) Jordan avg. 35.5, 6.3, 6.9, 2.4 SPG, 1.9 BPG in those 10 post season games playing on a Chicago team known as the traveling cocaine circus before he was drafted because the players were a bunch of drug addict bums. Jordan had no one. They didn’t lose because of jordan and they didn’t lose they didn’t have pippen it was because he didn’t have anyone. They also fail to mention how jordan avg. 43.67 ppg against the Celtics in the 1986 playoff series against the Celtics which is the #1 highest playoff series ppg in the history of the NBA. As a 21 year old rookie he put up 29/6/9/3/1 going 1-3. As a 22 year old sophomore he put up 44/6/6/2/1 going 0-3. As a 23 year old third year player he put up 36/7/6/2/2/ going 0-3. Then Pippen was drafted and they still lost 4-1 to the Pistons in the second round. Lost the ECF next two years. It's not like Pippen came in and they suddenly won championships. There was growing that any young player and team has to go through. Pippen avg. 8-4-2 when he first joined the bulls
Why you jordan fans doesn’t use that with LEBRON thou I understand he lost to a better team and so did LEBRON y’all say LEBRON has finals loses as if jordan would of won in lebrons shoes 👞 but clearly he wouldn’t have cause he has loses
@@boonebeasley9622 why do you say y'all acting like everyone on the other side is exactly the same. This guy understands context and would know how to apply it to all players.
Can we all just halt with all the Lebron vs Jordan comparisons. Lebron still has 5+ years in the NBA to go, then we can compare, but for now let's just appreciate greatness
Jake C those 5 years are just going to add to all time numbers. But jordans all time numbers come at way less games than other players. That's what makes him stand out. Just look at lebrons played games. He's 9 games behind jordans whole career. It gives you a picture perfect comparison of what Jordan did in that time.
Jake C Love how people bring up less shots but don't mention LeBron shot more 3PTers and freethrows. Jordan also played college and stopped playing for 18 months while he was in his prime. If Jordan had come out of high school and played for 20 seasons like Kobe and Kareem did there's no doubt Jordan would have all the scoring records.
Back then teams like the Celtics had chemistry that takes years to develop. Jordan was finding his own. And after he started weight lifting, game over!
Once Pippen became a legit All-star they never lost a playoff series again where MJ was on the team the whole year. Pippen did make an all-star team in 89 but he hadn't reached his prime yet. He only Averaged 16PPG and had a 16 PER that season. He still had the "migraine" game in the playoffs in 89-90. He had finally played really well in those playoffs until the ECF vs Detroit. And in game 7 Pippen went 1-10 shooting and they lost. The next season in 90-91 Pippen didn't make the all-star team but his PER jumped to over 20 and he averaged 17.8 PPG, VORP was 5.9. He made 2nd All-Defensive for the first time and his defense was elite in the playoffs to win their first ring. He really became HIM in the 91-92 season during their 2nd title run. That year he made his first All-NBA team (2nd tm) and his first 1st Team All-Defensive .
Riley Freeman Korzemba's recent video really disappointed me. His content is slipping. He left out so much information and context when discussing Jordan/LeBron. Korzemba seems like he's just trying to appeal to the masses now, while Dom is being truly unbiased on either side.
Like when he said that Teams collapse without Lebron James. The Cavs sure, but the heat was so riddled with injuries the year he left. I mean, Bosh got blood clots, what do you expect. And then despite that, They managed to make it to 7 games in the 2nd round against Toronto the very next year, which pretty much destroys that argument.
At the end of the day LBJ has played on great teams and lost disgracefully. MJ, no. And this upload doesn't even go on to tell the rest. I love Pippen, but his first 3 years he was utter crap. Horace Grant was better than Scottie his first couple of seasons. And the reason the Bulls got past Detroit in 91' wasn't Pippen, it was BJ. And even the Bulls players on the team say it was really in 92' that Pippen started to blossom. I think I'll take the word of guys on the team over dumbass media (and there's too many outlets these days). Plus I have eyes and watched Pippen mess up in games for long before he got good. And why do you think he got good? Even Phil has said MJ helped Pippen develop his game. I don't think LBJ developed Kyrie's game. I don't think he developed Love's game. For young punks who didn't get to see MJ play, you don't know what greatness looks like... so I don't blame you for criticizing. If LBJ was great, you'd probably know what it looks like and criticize less.
meg James and Jordan are both the best of their respected generations. Young kids grew up watching James play and older people watched mj play. So there will always be bias when talking about who’s better. We just have to stop comparing generations and just stop criticizing the stars so heavily.
For people arguing about the Jordan and LeBron GOAT argument, Jordan is called the GOAT because of his stats, but his impact on the game is incredible. He helped basketball and inspired many players and NBA stars today.
Slunky 24 so is Lebron/Curry now, and what Kobe did. I honestly think that even though MJ is a better player, that in a decade or 2 Lebron will be considered the GOAT. We like the people we grow up watching.
Suburban White Teen that says the n word every day, don't include Steph Curry. Curry ain't even a top 5 player now. Westbrook, Durant, Leonard, Harden, including LeBron are already 5 players over Curry. He needs to be more elite in other aspects other than scoring by shooting threes
Anthony Celestin What I meant was he is an inspiration to kids that are more undersized. I know the other guys you named do that too, and I'm no Warrior fan, but let's give the 2x MVP some credit
I think you got it the wrong way around. People aren't blaming MJ for not winning a playoff series before Pippen arrived, they are saying LeBron shouldn't be critisized for getting having to go to Miami to win a ring, because the Cavs just didn't put him in the position to win. The point they make is that not even MJ won a Chip before he had a good team put around him in 90-91 and didn't even win a playoff series before Pippen arrived, so why criticize LeBron for leaving Cavs, where he was never put into a position to win, which is also the reason people shouldn't criticize LeBron for losing in 2007 when even getting to the Finals that year was already incredible considering how trash that team was. Now I totally agree that LeBron with those cavs obviously never faced teams as great as Jordan did in his early years, but I think the way you put it, you got it wrong. People don't criticize MJ for not winning in those early years, they just think it's unfair criticizing LeBron for it, therefore pointing out that Jordan also couldn't do it.
That's funny because LeBron also waited 7 years and didn't get anything from the cavs. After 7 years, Jordan had a great suppoting cast that made him able to win the Championship where as LeBron didn't get one good player to play alongside him in 7 years. And then he left. Don't know how you can blame him for leaving after the Organisation wasted 7 years of his career.
Lennart Rentzow Difference is that MJ WAITED until he got help while LeFlop LEFT as soon as he got the chance to! Smh! LeFlop DIDN'T want to face real competition so he decided to form a super team in Miami & when that didn't last...he went & formed ANOTHER super team when he returned to Cleveland! (who just so happened to get "lucky" & win the draft lottery 3 outta the 4 years that he was in Miami SMFH!) That's 2 seperate super teams that the so called "best player on the planet" has been a part of! MJ NEVER played on a super team nor needed MULTIPLE all stars, just so he can win championships & let's get real...Pippen WASN'T a factor when he got to the Bulls! He became a great defender & player bc MJ molded him into one...& how could u not count LeFlop's very 1st Finals loss? Smh. You ppl give LeChoke the most passes & excuses ever! If anybody else took his 07 Cavs to the Finals & got swept that player would get bashed for it but since it's the queen well...let's just sweep his 1st Finals loss under the rug & not count it as an actual loss right? Smfh! Btw...MJ's Bulls were BUILT from the ground up, they WEREN'T BOUGHT & ORCHESTRATED like LeFlop's teams were...why do u think he's been to 7 straight Finals? It's because of his all starred super teams that he's been a part of! MJ NEVER played with the talent that LeFlop has played with which means that MJ played with LESS all stars & STILL DOMINATED, retiring as the GOAT which he still is right now. It's a reason why everybody gets compared to MJ & not the other way around.
qsplak But why wait for help when your GM's aren't giving it to you? Most of these GM's don't care about winning championships but only about making money. Many great players throughout history (i.e. Barkley, Wilkins, Ewing, Miller, etc.) wasted their best years waiting for their owners to put good teams around them to win, only for them to go ringless and be the butt of jokes for many years (look at how they treat Barkley). Chicago's staff was sensible enough to do acquire players that fit MJ's style giving him the best chance to win. A player's legacy is judged by how many championships they win whether we like it or not, and guys like LeBron and KD see that. You can't blame them for leaving. If the team isn't making an effort to give you the best chance to win, why not go elsewhere?
I actually had the pleasure of seeing MJ and those 90's Bulls play in person on a couple occasions, and I've seen Lebron too. While Lebron is good, and I'm not knocking what he's accomplished, there was just something otherworldly about MJ when he got going that I have never seen in any other player. That is why MJ can't be challenged by Lebron in the GOAT debate in my eyes. People who never saw Michael just don't get it, and it's not easily explained.
It's because you see a bunch of GREAT players on a more regular basis so u accustomed to it now. Back then u probably seen 6 games max a week....now u see 5 a night
lebron's 2005 record was 42-40, tied with nets, but didn't make playoffs coz of tiebreaker rules. Jordan's record his first 3 playoffs were 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42, all 8th seeds . I love Jordan, but I don't think he's the goat, neither is lebron. I'll go with the guy who lost 1 game before his pro years and dominated when he got to the NBA that he got the most points ever. Guys stan these two players who can't even touch the Bucks record with Kareem on his first season, 56-26. Sorry Jordan and Lebron fans. You guys just follow media hype. Check your guy's impact on the team first before heralding them as GOATs
lebron's 2005 record was 42-40, tied with nets, but didn't make playoffs coz of tiebreaker rules. Jordan's record his first 3 playoffs were 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42, all 8th seeds . I love Jordan, but I don't think he's the goat, neither is lebron. I'll go with the guy who lost 1 game before his pro years and dominated when he got to the NBA that he got the most points ever. Guys stan these two players who can't even touch the Bucks record with Kareem on his first season, 56-26. Sorry Jordan and Lebron fans. You guys just follow media hype. Check your guy's impact on the team first before heralding them as GOATs
It is obvious to anyone who didn’t just go with the narrative that it was because his team wasn’t good. Pippen didn’t have much to do with MJ dismantling the Cavs in the first series they played together. I mean Pippen averaged 10.6 points and yeah that helps a little but come on now. MJ averaged 45.2 points on .559 shooting. He scored 105 combined points in the first 2 games out of the Bulls 210 points. He needed a few points to outscore all his teammates combined in game 4 but he shot 72 percent.
Also Bron wasn’t what I’d call good in his first NBA Finals against the Spurs. He averaged 5.8 turnovers and shot .356 percent for the series and a couple games were 1 and 3 point losses. It is what it is and Spurs had the better team but Bron himself didn’t really have a good outing there.
what about the defense pippen provided, allowing jordan to not wear himself out. that allows someone to stay more consistent offensively and defensively
Donna Dunbar Who care about 7-10 points a game, When Lakers faced Bulls in finals Magic bodies Michael Jordan when Jordan guarded him and Lakers won first game, Pippen was put on Magic the rest of the series and Lakers didn’t win another game. Find a stat for that SMH
Pippen was a non factor in his first 2 seasons. boy avg 11 pt. in his first playoff series while MJ avg 45pts. the fact is this, every season that Pippen was actually a good payer and he and MJ played most of a season together, they won a title.'90-'91 -'96-'97 with MJ retiring and playing a partial season in between. and then MJ did an all time solo carry job to a title win in '98. meanwhile Lebron in '07 was the reason the cavs lost to the Sppurs because he couldn't shoot, avg only 22 pts (les than Tony Parker) and committed 23 turnovers in the series. nobody ever mentions how turnover prone Lebron is or how he can't even shoot an avg % if it's not a dunk or layup.
PEOPLE TALK ABOUT RINGS BUT JORDAN WAS GREAT BEFORE HE WON A RING..BIRD CALLED HIM GOD IN SHORTS WAY BEFORE A RING AND YALL GIVING PIPPEN TOO MUCH CREDIT HE’S A SIDEKICK AT BEST GTFOH
James proved he is a more efficient scorer and on place the break Kareem record. James proved he can play all five positions. James proved he can defend all five positions. James proved father time is on his time. James proved he a better clutch shooter...Honestly, if we look at them on an individual level and leave team success out of it, what does James have to add to his game to make him on par with Jordan?
And Pippen saying Lebron won championships without help is like dropping a vitamins from my mouth. He went over MJ and forgot how Lebron was helped by Wade, Bosh,Irving and Davis
My thing is this nobody mentions how in the 80s Larry had mchale Parish, DJ n Danny ainge Magic had Kareem Worthy Scott n Coop Isaiah had Rodman Dumars laimbeer Auguire etc yet Mike was supposed to play all that alone n WIN?? That literally makes no sense to criticize him for fans or the media
Exactly. Don't forget about Moses, Cheeks, Dr.j & Barkley Sixers or Moncrief, Cummings, Pressey & Pierce Bucks. Jordan entered the East at arguably it's peak with very little help, and no veteran players with Playoff or Championship experience.
Fredy Vergara Show Not a real excuse. Another Jordan fans excuse for whenever Jordan lost. A lot of teams had cokeheads in that era, not just the bulls. Also coke doesn’t hurt someone’s basketball ability. Dwayne McClain admitted he was on coke when Villanova beat Georgetown to win the NCAA tournament. Coke is an upper, weed would hurt basketball ability not coke. No I’m not advocating using cocaine. I’m just killing another Jordan excuse.
@@naturenupe6 Well someone had a teaamate which played to the highest level, but he choke, there are lots of players that out played him, he had memorable moments, such as : The Sweep "The Choke The Cramps The Cast The Help me That all his fans had an excuse for every loss he had..
@Miguel Bajarias Lebron GOAT( Going On Another Team) he scored just 3 points in a game, and secure that Finals lost by contributing 8 points to his team.
Great video, I think you are right about how the media has been coming foR Jordan's legacy, but I think they have been coming for pippens legacy as well. It's ashame really! These guys were absolutely awesome and the sick and twisted thing about it is that some people use an assortment of these same arguments to try and discredit either one of these guys or both of these guys.
1-9 against 5 HOF player's. Bird McHale Dennis Johnson Robert Parrish Bill Walton And with Charles Oakley and Brad Sellers being his 2nd and 3rd best player's on the team. Of course you're not gonna beat a team as seasoned as the 80's Celtics with that around you. You needed what Magic and the Lakers had...Or those great Pistons team's. I don't care how amazing MJ was he wasn't beating 5 HOF player's at 22 and 23 yrs old with nothing around him...Hell 2 tha mufucka naw! That ain't happening!
Zack W. You get bunch of ignorant people. Who don't look a Lil further at the entire situation. They're was no way possible he could have defeated a team like that with this on the floor. Sam Vincent Brad Sellers Charles Oakley Dave Corzine Really...Your gonna beat a top 5 player of All-time in Bird. And 4 other HOF player's...GTFOH that ain't happening no way no how!
it would be like if lebron didn't have kyrie, or kevin love and he would be playing the warriors in the first round ,he wouldnt even be 1-9 probably 0-10
Ikr. That celtics team that swept 23,24 year old mj are on warriors level and Jordan still average 40 vs celtics🤷. Lebron neva average 40 in a playoffs or finals series. N wen pippen came pistons beat bulls 3 straight years. Mj was averaging 36ppg with 7 assist n rebs while pippen avg 9 points😂😂😂. Mj carried pippen
I don’t even know why this is even a discussion tbh Lebron fans always bring up Jordan being 1-9 in the playoffs without Scottie but then they seem to forget that lebron would only have 1 finals appearances and no championships without dwade, bosh, kyrie and love
Christian Hernandez yeah exactly hence why I think it’s dumb to criticize Jordan being 1-9 without Scottie when lebron also wouldn’t have any rings without love, kyrie, wade and bosh. Everyone needs help the only person that can say they won without another star player is dirk
The only reason I at times discredit Jordan is because they make it seem as though he never lost and did everything himself. When LeBron carries a team and loses he gets criticized but when jordan can't get past the first round its not his fault. I'm not as bias as some LeBron fans but the argument is used to clarify that Jordan lost alot as well. But most fans are oblivious to that
Dumb things? Are you a LeBron hater? LeBron is easily the smartest player in the nba. The criticism he gets is absolutely insane. They pretty much want him to be a perfect basketball player which is impossible for anyone. Anytime his teammates step up more than he does he gets criticized even if he was still an influential piece. The man can dominate an entire series and people will emphasize 1 bad game like he's supposed to be perfect.
Len Walker then why do people constantly bring up the 3-4 argument when only 1 of those losses was his fault (in 2014 he averaged 28 on 58% fgp) it's as if its better to get knocked off in the first round then to lose in the finals.
chris tiod We talking about on the big stage bruh. Where the mf shit count. LBJ talk alot of shittt. But don't back up a mf thing. What happen to all those RINGS. He said he was going to win in Miami? 2 RINGS he won. And one because of that dude Ray Allen. 14 years in the league. Ran to another man team for help. Playing in this soft ass league. Weak weak weAk ass east. And he still got only 3 chips. That's pathetic
Blake Seduction your argument is so biased that responding with facts that nullifies your criticism is a waste of time considering how hard-headed you seem.
The biggest joke is the idea that Lebron is a better playoff performer than Jordan. Or that Jordan couldn't perform in playoffs without so and so. His team may not have won but look at the numbers and Jordan is constantly the MVP of all playoff series he has played (bar 2 . . . Which he won) If you use the gamescore stat (overall effectiveness of a player) Jordan has been the best player in every single playoff series he has played except 2 where he was the 2nd beat player. 96 round 1 pippen 22.7, Jordan 22.3 96 Finals Kemp 18.9, Jordan 18.5 Jordan won both series and was only 0.4 behind the best player. He has played in 37 series so 5.4% of the time Jordan wont be the best player in the playoff series . . . But a very close 2nd. And he has never lost a series and not been the MVP for that series. Lebron has 10 times not been the best player in a series he has played in. 06 R1 2nd G Arenas 24.7 L James 23.6 07 Finals 4th! (Lost) T parker 16.2, T Duncan 15.3, M Ginobili 11.6, L James 10.6 08 R3 2nd (Lost) Garnett 17.6, L James 17.5 11 R2 2nd D Wade 23.8, L James 17.5 11 Finals 3rd! (Lost) D Wade 23.8, Dirk 16.6, L James 13.7 16 R1 2nd K Irving 19.7, L James 18.3 17 Finals 2nd (Lost) K Durrant 30.3, L James 29.6 20 R1 2nd A Davis 27.7, L James 25.6 20 R2 2nd J Harden 23.4, L James 22.9 20 R3 2nd A Davis 24.4, L James 24.1 So James has played in 49 playoff series and in 10 of them he hasnt been the best player so there is a 20.4% chance James wont be the best player compared to Jordans 5.4% . . . Lebron has not been the best player 4 times in a series he has not won (Jordan has never done this) Lebron has finished 3rd or worse twice! Both in finals and both he lost! Jordan has never finished worse than 2nd and both times was juat behind 1st. Dont ever argue that L James is a better playoff performer than Jordan. Because its just pure plain wrong.
It's too bad you didn't get to see him in his prime. I'm not a basketball fan but boy did I love watching him run that court. I myself only saw him whenever he played the Boston Celtics or when it was playoff time and he was something to behold. It was like watching poetry in motion. There was always a moment when you said dam MJ is gunna take over and bury whom ever he was playing.
The whole MJ was 1-9 in the 1st round that I see some fans repeat to minimize MJ always comes off as ignorant to me. Not only did they take their thoughts and talking points from Nick Wrong but they're also participating in bs childishness. Honestly what's the obsession with nitpicking MJ or even LeBron when MJ fans trash him as well. It's all very stupid. Just appreciate their greatness. Every player needs help and no player is perfect. You can have yout GOAT without trashing another player just to feel better about your choice or to try to make a knowledgeable point. It All comes off dumb.
moneyearl78 do I not realize that that isn’t in anyway bad? And he was way more of a defensive player than he was offensive? I guarantee ur one of those ppl that say Pippen didn’t change Jordan at all.
@@gaswvtv1400 you sound stupid bruh. I watched all that up close, even went to a lot of those games. Pip was ok but he wasnt a dog at first. You and the rest of Lebron stans dont even like or respect Pip. You just use him to downplay MJ. After Pip had the migraine game. MJ got everybody in the gym on weights. Pip was good but you young boys dont really know how much MJ carried the team. Pip had a lot more bad games than MJ. So MJ carried him way more than he had to carry MJ
that is why jordan is the goat he didn't give up and just continue to improve and 1 by 1 he got the right teamates for him unlike the wannabe goat who give up on his team and join a team with multiple superstar and fyi jordan didnt want to be called the goat because he thinks that's a disrespect to the other greats before him and this wannabe goat really said he is the goat lmao
That litterly shows who's the goat, MJ never said im the best or anything like that, He KNEW but didnt say, LeBum trynna make it clear he is the best while it isnt because he aint
He got the right teammates because the Bull’s front office wasn’t incompetent. Can you blame him for leaving Cleveland? When it was obvious that Cleveland wasn’t giving him any help?
Here's how the argument always goes with my bias cousin who thinks Lebron is Jesus "...and Jordan was 1 and 9! He lost every step of the way until he got one of the greatest players ever Scottie Pippen!" me: "Yeah and Lebron got the finals and got swept... in the finals. You know, when it's the biggest game of the season and it's all on the line?" him: "Well at least he got to the finals! I'd rather see an amazing player carry a team from nothing to the finals all by himself and lose than MJ being helped by everyone!" me: "The East is a breeze nowadays and it doesn't take much to get close. Of course he's gonna get them there. It's in the West nowadays where the bulk of the competition is. Does GS ring a bell? Also Michael was not helped by everyone. He had one, just one, other all-star player and that was Pippen. What about the times Lebron got swept AND the time in 2011 against the mavs when he was losing to a roleplayer?" At that point he throws up stats like "he scored 30 points every game in the last playoff season" or something like that and I don't deny how great Lebron is and then I say how MJ got triple teamed in the 90's as a shooting guard and still make baskets without a big man like Shaq or Lebron being Lebron. Then he just starts saying how great Lebron is and how everyone is against him, and it always ends with me telling him one of two things. Either: "He's set against him because MJ changed basketball." or when I just wanna troll him "Lebron may walk on water, but Jordan walks on air." He's never had a response to that.
Donna Dunbar Did you say LeBron played awful in 2018. You mean the same year he had a better Game 1 than any game KD has ever had in his entire career. The same year he averaged more points, assists, and steals than KD by a WIDE margin, plus a higher FG%. The same year he made it to the finals with a roster that we both know had no business anywhere near the finals. Yeah, shut up idiot.
Bro ya bragging about 1 game. Wat bout game 2 3 n mos def 4. He fasho played awful in game 4 n he did not avg more points than kd or assist by wide margin. N kevin love a superstar 🌟 to ya forgot? Kyle korver top 10 3point shooter all time. N all those descent role players plus went up against Boston with no Hayward and kyrie. Klove average 21ppg 11rpg n lead nba playoffs in rebounds. Lebron was not by himself dude
Donna Dunbar Lmao, you’re proving my point and contradicting yourself at the same time. You said they had loads of talent that performed well but then you said they could barely get past a weakened Celtics, which is it? I’ll tell you which one, it’s the second one, that team had no business facing the Warriors, everyone saw that sweep coming from a mile away. The only reason they made it to the Finals was because LeBron stepped it up to another level. Also, you’re criticizing his finals performance when his team played so badly that he only scored 23 point but it was still more than the second and third highest scoring players combined. Only 3 other players scored double digits(13, 10, 10) and they got blown out by 20+ points. If he had scored 40 but still lost, you would’ve called him a stat padder. You haters are retarded AF 😂 😂
Lebron fans criticize Jordan for losing in the first round of the playoffs his first few seasons. But did they really expect a young MJ to beat a stacked Celtics team, when MJ's best teammate was Orlando Woolridge??? Also they conveniently forget that Lebron didn't even make the playoffs his first two years (which is worse than getting bounced in the first round).
Exactly. Lebron has flat out missed the playoffs 3 times in his career, that's worst than getting knocked out in the first round. Jordan missed the playoffs twice, at 39 and 40 years old playing for Washington.
THANK YOU!!! I've been saying virtually everything you said in this video(bad Bulls teams against great teams, no help for MJ, the hypocrisy of the way this argument is used, etc), but you broke it down so much better than I ever did. I also appreciate that you admit to not being a "Jordan is the GOAT" guy, but still find this argument pointless. Gives it even more credibility(although it'll likely get ignored by many of the hardcore LeBron fans and you'll just be labeled a hater). From the very bottom of my heart......THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO
But its a team game that one on One over shooting cant win finals not in this time where kid's are coming out with the Jordan mentality and shoe contracts to keep.
it's not a such things as the greatest players of all time we just need to appreciate greatness different rules and game play are different in both errands a proving point to we just need to appreciate greatness
Mike had to go through almost half of the 50 greatest players of all time!! Who did LeBron have to go through? Jason Terry, or half of a injured golden state team. The only significant win was the spurs and wade and Allen won that one! Lost against all the others!! You people are delusional!!!
@@tyresetyler2607 yeah just keep letting the media brainwash all you dumbasses. The brown wouldn't be s*** back in the eighties and early nineties he to f****** soft. Got to have all the best player in the NBA to win and still lost six f****** times! Get the hell out of here with your no basketball knowing ass
@@Willkill1999 dude I'm not a youngster! You can't fool me with that! No way same level of competition! Don't let media fool you. 80s and 80s. Was just better. You don't have to like it, but it's true sir
The "1-9 without Scottie" argument is one of the most deceptive, dishonest, Jordan-hating comments I have ever heard. The truth is, outside of his rookie season, Jordan only played one full season without Pippen present.
Here is my opinion. Winning is all about the cast you have around you. Not one person. Jordan and LeBron can play insane basketball but if their team doesn't show up enough to make a difference to help win a game, it doesn't matter when it is all said and done. Jordan played great basketball to win 6 championships. But to just say Jordan is what won them all is a disservice to the rest of his teammates and let us not forget about his coach, Phil Jackson. Basketball is a team sport and no one player has every won a NBA championship by themselves. Jordan had the biggest impact on his team but didn't win those alone. You win as a team and lose as a team. Every basket counts and is important to finding a winning team at the end of a game. Not just the last few minutes are points important in a game. Jordan and LeBron are both great basketball players. Championships are nice and all but those are won by a collective team effort. If you want to compare who is the greatest of all time and championships is your measure of greatness, then Bill Russell is your winner. If you go by personal stats, you would be hard pressed to not pick Wilt Chamberlain as he could dominate a game like no other. If you want to compare Jordan and LeBron, compare them on individual stats is what I would say. Anything else, compare their teams as you win championships as a team. But as many people will tell you, you will never know who was the best, who had the best team if they were to match up. Everyone played in different eras and we don't have a time machine to see matchups play out. Anything can happen in sports, especially when you are talking about the cream of the crop of teams and players. Enjoy and appreciate the greatness as it unfolds because it won't last forever before an era passes by.
The thing about those stats though is that Lebron didnt face the bad boy pistons who would throw mike out the air every time he went up using the "Jordan Rules" also the rules changed after lebrons rookie season to make it easier for players to get to the basket.
gripitandripit Jordan fans Don't wanna go by stats because they know LeBron dominates in that area so they use the 6 for 6 argument over and over. I choose not to argue with Jordan fans because I already know what they will say. The goat argument is opinion based anyway some ppl will have wilt as the goat or Kareem its all opinions. LeBron is the greatest of this era that's for sure no denying that and Jordan had his time during the 90s.
gripitandripit lebrons performance in the 2011 finals was inexcusable he had a great supporting cast Miami was the better team Jason Terry outplayed him
But not because he didn't show up against Detroit. Detroit at the time had the better team that he lost to in 6 games, hardly classifies as getting raped. Miami was better than Dallas, had home court advantage, were younger & more athletic, Dwyane Wade was playing out of his mind, and Lebron stunk up the joint to a team of a bunch of has-beens. That was Dirk Nowitzki's last great year, but he was their only superstar, Miami had 3, and they lost because Prince James absolutely folded under Finals pressure. Also, Jordan was only a 5th year pro at 26, Lebron was into his 8th season at 26. Magic won a championship his 1st year, Larry his 2nd year, Duncan his 2nd year. Kareem his 2nd year. Is experience overrated? By your 8th season, you should be long ready for the big stage, but give me an example of any season where Jordan lost in the playoffs to a lesser team?
@@sammyhalljr9566 wow talk about blinded by devotion. LeBron fans are so happy with finals loses. That's why they are reminded of Jordan having no finals losses
You also forgot to mention that those playoff series happened in Jordan's first three seasons (they were the worst team in the East prior to him joining the team. They went from that, to making the playoffs three straight years), while Lebron didn't even *make* the playoffs in his first *two* seasons! So yes, another completely hypocritical argument from Lebron fans! To be fair, Lebron finally did lead Cleveland to the playoffs and lead them to the second round his very first year in the playoffs in '05-'06 (and then the finals in '06-'07, in his fourth year total), while for Jordan, it took him until his 7th year to make the finals. I'm sure Lebron fans will point that out immediately. But again, Jordan had to get through several all-time great teams *just* in the *East* to get there! The '84-'85 #2 seed Milwaukee Bucks (one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, still arguably at their strongest), Dr. J's all-time great 76ers team that had just added an incredible new rookie named Charles Barkley (a tandem that was still *very much* a contender throughout the entire 80s, and was even a 3-seed behind the Bucks that first year, going on to defeat that great Bucks team in the second round, before finally getting bounced by the all-time great Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals), the Isaiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, and Dennis Rodman-lead Bad Boys Pistons team that would go on to succeed where the Bucks and 76ers failed, and dethrone the Celtics and the Lakers by the end of the decade, and then of course, you also had Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers teams (take away Magic's Lakers, and every team I mentioned was also in Jordan's *conference.* That, and the depleted roster he had kept getting worse due to drug problems, but he kept finding ways to not only will them to the playoffs, but actually challenge teams every so often in the process. He took a game off the legendary Bucks as a 7th-seed, and he very nearly took a game off the even more legendary all-time great Celtics a year later in his 63-point "Godlike" performance)! Who did Lebron have in his conference? A Pistons team that won a title against the Lakers superteam in his first year, but had regressed every year since. The Dwayne and Shaq Heat. And that's pretty much it. In his first year in the playoffs, the 3-seed was the Nets (long diminished since their failed Finals days), the 5-seed was the Wizards, the 6-seed was a now Reggie Miller-less, Ron Artest-less Pacers team, the 7th-seed was the Kirk Hinrich-Ben Gordon Bulls (two years before Derrick Rose would be drafted), and the 8th-seed was an awful Bucks team that barely won 40 games that year (seriously, the Wizards actually made the 5th seed with only 42 wins. That's how weak the East was. It got even weaker the following year, with Ben Wallace leaving the Pistons and Shaq showing clear signs of decline as the Heat went from champions to getting swept in the first round. In fact, Cleveland got the 2-seed with only *fifty* wins. Yes, no team 3-seed or below in the East even managed to get 50 wins that season. That's how incredibly weak that conference was. The only team above them, the Ben Wallace-less Pistons, got the #1 seed with only 53 wins! That whole conference was a joke. Credit to Lebron for carrying his team to the finals, but no way he makes it there if he's got Larry Bird's Celtics, Dr. J's 76ers, the Bad Boy Pistons, and the early 80's Don Nelson-coached revolutionary Bucks team in his conference)! So yes, again, totally hypocritical argument from Lebron fans who say, "hey, he didn't have good players around him and he was playing against an all-time great team in the Gregg Popovic-lead Spurs." Apparently that argument does not apply to Jordan having four all-time great teams in his conference and not only *still* making the playoffs his first three years in a row, but *every* year he was with the Bulls)!
lebron's 2005 record was 42-40, tied with nets, but didn't make playoffs coz of tiebreaker rules. Jordan's record his first 3 playoffs were 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42, all 8th seeds. You keep mentioning Lebron missing the playoffs while MJ making it with 30 freaking wins? I love Jordan, but I don't think he's the goat, neither is lebron. I'll go with the guy who lost 1 game before his pro years and dominated when he got to the NBA that he got the most points ever. Guys stan these two players who can't even touch the Bucks record with Kareem on his first season, 56-26. Sorry Jordan and Lebron fans. You guys just follow media hype. Check your guy's immediate impact on the team first before heralding them as GOATs
dude in a era when players averagely not so athletic, smaller, slower, less skillful, only a few could shoot 3s, no taller players could dribble, no zone defense, no eurosteps, no shammgod, among them lots were skinny with no vertical jump and some ppl call it tougher era, without Pippen's help dude couldn't pass the 1st round. When he retired in 93' bulls went from 57wins to 55wins still.
yep. just like how lebron got swept in the finals twice. 4-6 also jordan never choked. bron choked in 2011. a choker cant be the goat. it disqualifies you.
Jordan needed help period. That doesn’t make him trash without it. LeBron needed help, so did Shaq, so did Kobe, so did Duncan, so did Kareem, so did Magic, so did Bill Russel, so did curry, so did KD. Need I go on?
Never biased, always lay out all the facts, and most importantly of all, keep it real! No one breaks down these illogical and completely ignorant arguments like you. Keep up the great work Dom2k! MJ will always be 🐐
I think Jordan is probably the goat, but I would never disagree with somebody if they had Kareem as the goat, Kareem won just as many championships as Jordan and kareems accolades were just as good as Jordans, Kareem also was just as great as an offensive player as Jordan, maybe Kareem is the goat, it's hard to tell because they both played in different era's
@Basketball God Haha. Both were drafted and trained to be what they were. All of leborn team mates are already all star by the time they joined Leborn.
The first year with the Bulls Scottie was no All Star. MJ showed him the ropes. Showed him the work ethic that would beat the Bad Boy Pistons. Scottie finally understood after MJ's first retirementthe weight of being the face of the franchise. He then appreciated even more the greatness of Mike!
Kenneth no way LeBron would have done any better. That Bulls team is way worse than any team LeBron has ever been on. And Scottie didn't step up for a very long time. LeBron would be 0-10
It's not excuses it's facts. Neither lebron james would get past the celtics or pistons and the bucks who were elite teams. Jordan was destroying those teams dropping 60 50 or 40 but didn't have a team that time just like lebron. So that narrative sounds dumb
Youre also forgetting that lebron got the wins to be able to be the 1st or 2nd seed in the playoffs. The reason jordan had to play the loaded celtics in the first round is because they didnt get enough reg season wins
Faxtionz Jordan had to play with crackheads. I am not insulting Orlando Woolridge and Quinton daily. They were on crack. That wasn’t Jordan’s fault. And they quickly got traded, so it disrupted his regular season. Look at what happened when LeBron disrupted this year’s regular season by trying to bring on people and then helping to people leave
That usually happens when you the top team in the conference...you play the team that barely made it in. Not James fault that Jordan was on the scrub team in the first round for his first three playoff trips.
Scottie Pippen was an amazing two way player that helped MJ win six titles, and also helped to form one of the most intimidating defensive teams of all time.
Scottie Pippen was not the sole reason why Jordan had a 1-9 playoff record by 1987 like many want you to believe, and today we look at what else contributed to that so you can get the full story.
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Dom2k hhi
Dom2k is this cavs vs warriors series goingto be a dissapointment or did they just have an off night?
Dom2k sonics drafted pippen and traded him to Chicago
Dom2k I love how you said Michael Jordan "WAS" the greatest of all time
Dom2k
I think dropping 63 on the Celtics and losing proves that one player can't win a championship
At the end of the day it's team effort
MJ, Kobe and LeBron needed help to won
Exactly
but you guys don’t say that about lebron finals record
socksarecool Not us, other biased people.
Lebron just needed way more help
@@l9ikjam What help did lebron have in Cavs , Irving and a trash bench that's it.
When one of the greatest calls you “god in disguise” in your 2nd year off a broken foot...enough said.
What Jordan didnt do was lose games he was supposed to win.
And Jean didn’t pick his teams each yr. He worked with what he had and made them better. Yes, when Grant left, they got Rodman. That’s about it. MJ didn’t even want Kukoc b4 he left for baseball.
Greatness recognizes greatness
Well said. 👌
Sean Stewart you meant 3rd year but I understand wym
Jordan didn't lose games he was supposed to win but he did win games he wasn't supposed to. In 1989 nobody picked the Bulls to beat Cleveland then he broke their franchise for life. He would have been in the finals that year if down 2-0 to the Bulls, Isaiah and Joe Dumars didn't come up with the Jordan rules at 2am in the morning. They couldn't stop him even though he had a real young team so they came up with a system for all players on the team to collapse on Jordan every time he took the ball because nobody else on the Bulls could hurt them at that point. They fouled Jordan so hard it would be an ejection and a suspension in today's game but not back then. He took hard fouls like that from the whole Pistons team because they all had 6 fouls to use to stop Jordan. He still played great but nobody else could get the job done when Jordan was triple teamed. It was 1991 when Phil Jackson had his philosophy firmly instilled and Tex Winter's Triangle offense was running smooth. Pippen and Grant were mature enough to help Jordan win and Michael himself had been getting his whole team involved for 4 quarters so they were all ready to make big shots late when Jordan was double and triple teamed. At that point the Pistons went down 4-0 to the Bulls when they next lost the first game of the finals only to sweep the Lakers on the next 4. That loss in game 1 was the only game they lost in the playoffs that year.
Youre dumb... Bron was only two times the favorite to win the finals. So I dont know what you talking bout taking shots at LeBron by saying MJ didnt lose games he was supposed to win.
Averaged 45-5-5 for the series... LMFAO that's ridiculous. Jordan the goat fr fr
on 55% shooting
against bums
Better than Oladipo's Indiana
what is lechoke without wade bosh and Kyrie???? 0 championship. even wade can win it all with washed up shaq and Kobe can win against Boston big 4 with average Pau gasol. lol lechoke aka I only score 8 points in 2011 Nba finals
protosszergterran bro what is michael jordan without pippen, rodman, grant, kerr, kukoc, armstrong. Would of never been 6-0 in the finals just saying
You just cant win a ring without another good player with you
Yo Jordan and Pippen defensively harassing Kukoc in the 92 Olympics is definitely one of my favorite Basketball stories. I'm glad you mentioned it.
I love how people act like when Pippen was drafted he was already SCOTTIE PIPPEN. He wasn't top 50 player of all times from the get go.Same with Phil Jackson. He was known only because he played with the Knicks in the beginning. But people love saying MJ needed best coach of all times and best defender evah to get out the first round. MJ wouldn't have won without them but they also wouldn't have go down as best in history if it wasn't for Jordan.
120593Gian Thank you... Phil Jackson came to the Bulls as a rookie coach who had no coaching success at all.... He became Phil Jackson by winning with Jordan...
& People act like Jordan was an NBA Champion by himself, 6-0 from the get go. It all started w/ those narratives that tried to make him be seen as all winning & untouchable. He had it tough early on & had to get help to win it all. Nothing wrong w/ that, its a team sport. & at the end of the day Phil implemented the perfect system for MJ & the bulls.
People also don't realize Jordan helped create what Scottie became. It was noted that after shootarounds and practice Jordan would play 1 on 1 with Scottie sometimes for hours, and this is what upped Pippen's game on both ends.
Dystopia1980 The coaches were reported of telling MJ to not go so hard on Scottie
@@MINK2393 he was also just an assist for years as well
The worst enemy of a narrative or agenda is context
Facts
They say Jordan never went up against a team like the warriors but he had some real tough competition
Jordan never played tough comp in the finals those teams don’t compare to the warriors
Please. Jordan never beat an all-time great team, and when he did have to play them, he got his ass beat.
Kenneth Erickson you three dudes are gay asf
bringing up dick for no reason ☠️☠️☠️
JERRIUS _ Jordan struggled more in the playoffs than he did in the finals, with LeBron it’s vice versa.
@@UFACIL all time great team? But did they win the finals?
87 88 and 89 Pippen wasn't even a top 3 player on the team.. It was Grant and Hodges that were the next 2 best players... Jordan had to push Pippen to the player he ultimately became in the 90s... Vs the Bad Boy Pistons Scottie Pippen was literally the Bulls punching bag and got bullied and humiliated.. Jordan always had to defend him like an older brother.... Jordan made Pippen to the top 50 player and the HOF he is now
no player can make another player you have to have the physical tools to be that type of player so pippen had a hand in his success more so than mj
Scottie was drafted in 1987. The Bulls won their first championship in 1991.Four years later. Btw after Phil Jackson became head coach
Pippen learned how to be a killer like jordan from jordan. Only person who didnt need to learn that is kobe.
They both got beatup especially MJ because of the Jordan Rules, badboys simulate the plan to stop MJ he got bruised and flagrant..
@@MrLebron2343 if itwasn't for MJ's hardwork tutelage and nurturing Pippen wouldn't probably the player he is now, assuming he went down to another team, you think he will get better or the fact he be known or recognized as a top 50?, Jordan made him who he is! Along with everyone in the team.. If Jordan wasn't pippens side no one will notice him..facts! But, if MJ doesn't had pippen his still Jordan, he can have others replaced pippen, nurture and polished that player to be his aide and still go on top!
you think lebron fans don't know all of this? they do, the problem is they're in denial. they won't admit it. we're in the age of alternative facts and emotion driven stats. it's not what it is, it's what makes them feel better.
+Andrew Blackop they say the same thing about Bron. Sports media. This is the same media that pushed Jordan is the greatest narrative on you.
Except the vast majority of players agree that Jordan was the greatest , and many even did so before he retired in 1998 . In Lebron's case you have internet trolls and nobodies like Wright hype him .
This video proved what exactly? LeBron still had the better start to his career and Jordan only passed him when Pippen joined the team and the flagrant foul was implemented because David Stern needed to combat "the Jordan Rules". '80s fans used to trash Jordan and how he was soft. Sound familiar?
Big Fella Do you care to elaborate or are you just going to attack me to try and prove your point? What did I say that was untrue, and how was it untrue? And I really don't care if Jordan is the GOAT or not. My comment had nothing to do with that.
jraposo Most Lebron fans weren’t even born to watch MJ play they’re just a bunch of ignorant retards
MJ in the playoffs before making it to the big show: vs nearly 60 wins Bucks....back to back elimination against the legendary Boston Celtics....three time losses to the Rough n tough Bad Boy Pistons. Are we to de-value those Classic teams greatness now to elevate Lebron?
No, not at all. But that doesn't change the 1-9 record.
And so is Lebron James has 2 years out of playoffs.
@@josephjohnroe3678 doesnt help Lebron that didnt even make the playoffs this year. Cant even say that he didnt have talent. He had a bunch of young talent surrounding him but he didnt buckle down and become the team leader and mentor as he should have. Hes petty as fuck now, 2009 LBJ would slap the shit out of 2019 LBJ.
Bronies will do anything to push their boy as the greatest.
With the exception of his Rookie year, he lost to the eventual conference champion, and three of those were the eventual NBA champions as well.
There was a lot of development by Jordan himself during those years. Mostly mental development. Once he realized he couldn't do it alone, he started trusting other players more. Became more of a leader. Yes, there is no doubt that Scottie would quickly develop into his partner, but you're right. It wasn't out of the gate and credit to Jackson too, who earned his trust and respect.
I like this comment I really do. But I want to think that as competitive Jordan was I don't think it ever crossed his mind that he couldn't do it alone. I think he was indeed grateful for any additions but I truly believe Jordan was out for blood with whoever, against whoever. It does take a team to win but a team also needs an identity and with the Bulls that was MJ. The ultimate competitor.
It wasn’t about trust his teammates actually sucked including Pippen when Pippen first got there..he made the all star team once in his first four years and that was as a reserve. Pippen overrated af
@VD Agreed
It wasn't just a case of Jordan learning to trust his teammates. It was also a matter of him getting better players. He trusted his teammates just fine in 1989 when he was switched to the point and averaged triple-doubles during his stint there. But the Bulls had a so-so record during that time. They switched him back to shooting guard and the Bulls exploded. They were just better with him as the team's first scoring option.
@@johnjones528 most people don't mention the fact that the bulls were on the process of rebuilding when they got MJ.
He didn't have a FIXED team until they got Cartwright.
His best teammates during the early years were Sam Vincent, Charles Oakley and Orlando Woolridge while he was going up against Boston in the first round.
I wish you mentioned that being 1-9 in your first 3 years is still better than LeBron not making the playoffs AT ALL until 2007. People completely leave that out
The Turtler 31 Yep hard to lose in the first round when you don’t make the tournament
He made in 2006 tho and missed it in 2005 by 1 game. But I agree with MJ>Lebron
The Turtler 31 wat u dont understand is that lebron didnt make the playoffs with a better record than those bulls team
The regular season competition was so much different.
Zydrunas Illgauskas was a descent starting center at the time.
Tbh the reason why people nitpick Jordans career and flaws is mainly because of his fans claiming his as an untouchable being.
same shit for lebron, people discredit many of his achievements because people are so quick to bring up the argument that he's better than mj.
National Hating Association that is exactly why
National Hating Association that's because he was untouchable, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence and witnesses that prove it. Even Shaq, Kobe, Iverson all know that MJ is a god. And they all played against MJ and Lebron. They all know that MJ is the greatest to ever play. There is literally not a single person in the world that has a right to argue with those players. They know more than everyone in this comment section combined.
ScepticalCynic facts bro Facts bro. u jus said all the Gold this thread needs. i wanna kno ur take on Kobe, Mj and LBJ. hard to find ppl that actually know ball
ScepticalCynic Bruh lebrons team was still terrible the first 2 or so years and they definitely weren't a contender after 3 or 4
What do you mean? he played against the pistons and Stockton and Malone
the anti-korzemba?
Kellen Kim no dom 2k. dom 2k is better
Korzemba sucks now, cater too much to the young casuals.
I think this video was a response to Mike Korbenza for some reason
Aaron Koh I thought he always did - minus the What If videos
Terrelle Williams which video?
You forgot to mention how Lebron was out score by Jason terry lol 😂
: the east was weak in his time
: he wouldn’t have lost to the mavs
: and, joe flacco has the best single post season performance and no one says he’s the goat, so your argument here is not sound
: still getting beaten by magics 2009 and choking 2011 is inexcusable lol
: salty ass can’t handle Lebum didn’t show up that series and scored 8 in a game sounds a lot like the greatest ever to me
Yall do realize 1-9 record was his first two years in the league.. 22 years of age.. That also includes taking time off from a ankle injury...
They won't listen however, I mean I don't think some of the people commented even watched the video.
When lebron was 22 years old he was in the finals
ZXman and was swept,good
ZXman when Jordan was 22 he averaged close to 50 a game against one of the greatest assembled
ZXman yeah but Lebron got in the nba in a younger age
No hate on Pip because I love Pip but he would not have been the player he became if he wasn’t Jordan teammates. Pip literally grew and practiced with Jordan in the late 80s. With his potential and learning from Jordan, he became on of the 50 greatest players imo
Straight up facts
Neither would Jordan have won asivh as he did without PIPPEN
Not facts Pip was the number 5 pick for a reason. He would have been the face of someone's franchise but not the rings.
No true. Both needed as much
You don’t know who Pippen is. One draft combine and every team tried to get him. Pippen without Jordan went to a CF.
Bronsexuals really try to hold being 1-9 without pippen against Jordan when it was only his first 3 seasons in the league, going up against the greatest celtics teams of all time dropping 63 points & being called GOD by lary bird lmfao
Preach. How these dumbfucks really believe that Jordan losing to those legendary Celtics teams with no help is remotely the same as Bron choking to the Mavs is beyond me lol
Lebron without kyrie and Love playing the Warriors in the first round for 3 years
lebron got to the finals in his first 3 seasons..... lmao
The road to 2007 Finals:
41-41 Wizards(without Arenas/Caron Butler)
41-41 Nets
53-29 Pistons (No Ben Wallace and HoF Larry Brown)
Nick 2k goat i stand corrected. thanks. maybe i meant to say "made the playoffs" but lebrons first 2 years in CLE, there was literally nothing. and not to mention his own team thought he was just gonna carry their bags, i swear tony battie, boozer and larry hughes were so set that lebron was their "back up" lmao but lebron did lead an NBA team to the finals against the spurs(arguably one of the greatest franchises ever) at 22 years old. idek what i was doing at 22. let alone being on the biggest stage in basketball.
and about MJs first season PO run. the bulls only won 30 games that year. and got taken out in the first round in 4 by the bucks.
now can you imagine if that was lebron? he would never hear the end of it. "MJ wouldnt have lost to the bucks, MJ wouldve won more than 30 games, MJ wouldve blah blah blah."
And nobody acknowledges that the east was just as weak back then as it is now. i mean 30 wins and you made the POs??!! lmao
Lebron never made the playoffs the first 2 seasons why is this even a discussion.
Shopaholex TV because his supporting cast was shit dumbass😂😂
Did MJ have a supporting case in his first 2 years dumb ass
esneakers13 And so was MJ's you dumbass
MJ did make the playoffs, but those teams werent good lol. The best he did in those first three seasons was a record of 40-42. Lebron missed the playoffs but still had a better regular season records in his first three seasons.
@Brian Goreand lebron carried a team to 50+ wins for a good 6 years
Thank you for this. The whole 1-9 playoff argument is weak
Barry Barber hy and people completely forget that lebron didn’t even make the playoffs in his first 2 seasons
@@cecilmitchell6073 never won 6 in a row lmao. Or 6 all together but cool
@@ryanralph7494 never went against a team like the warriors but cool with yo dumbass
@@cecilmitchell6073 yea for 2 years. Lebron didnt even make playoffs first 2 years. Keep in mind Chicago was a laughing stock franchise that never won anything. The team was garbage af. it was a miracle they went to the playoffs at all. Y'alls talking points are weapons against yourselves. You keep calling everyone a dick rider while riding lebrons. Smdh
@@cecilmitchell6073 lebron been losing in the Finals waaaaay before Curry. Jordan NEVER would of let Jason fucking Terry outplay him in the finals. Lebron laid eggs in multiple finals appearances. Lebron is great. Top 6 all time. But you dont personally fuck up and disappear on the games biggest stage and be considered GOAT. Dont care who you are. You gone. Yall sound ignorant. Mjs team was garbage but EVERYONE knew he was the best during rookie season. No.one ever said that about Lebron
This video basically explained what I already knew but just in greater detail.
Kinglik7 This video is towards the retarded fans that make false claims to push down some greats (ex:Kobe, Jordan)
The only people who'd be surprised by this video are dumbass kids who think LeBron is the GOAT
What mjs 1-9 playoff record and both he and kobes records as team leaders without Phil Jackson is that they are overrated....Phil made those teams special....he won nearly the same amount of games in 94 without mj and almost 2 play off series....without the the world best player. ....he took a starting lineup of Luke Walton Lamar Odom smush parker kwame brown and Kobe with no bench. to the playoffs...after a year off of coaching
Asmosis Jones you're clueless, kid.
You left out a bunch of context to suit your pathetic narrative..... And you're literally acting like as if Phil was a HoF coach since day one.......what was Phil Jackson's *coaching* résumé prior before joining the bulls? I'll wait😂
Phil built his legacy/résumé *WITH* Jordan yah goof.
Smh. Baseless assumptions from a casual fan. How sad.
Asmosis Jones For example, you left out the fact the Bulls were *3x DEFENDING CHAMPIONS!* I mean dude, why the hell do you and every casual moron think a 3X defending champion is suppose to crash and burn? Like seriously?
And then, you also left out the fact the bulls *KEPT* all their players and added *MORE* players into the mix to help with the lose of Jordan. I can't name all of them, but I'm sure Steve Kerr, Toni kukoc, Pete Myer etc Were all added with the already established championship bulls.
Listen very carefully bud, Jordan NEVER played with the supporting cast that Pippen had in the 1993/94 season. Jordan never played with Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, Armstrong, Kukoc, and Kerr, Paxson etc all at the same time. Jordan never had so many floor spacers at once, and yes floor spacers are actually very important and play a huge part in a team's W column.
For example, when Ray Allen joined the 2013 Heat, they won the most games in franchise history while LeBron, Wade, and Bosh all averaged career highs in FG% while playing with Allen.
That's just *ONE* player that space the floor. Lmao, so it's no surprise the bulls were good during the regular season.
There's more to this story, but I'll just leave off here. Again, you left out context to suit your narrative.
"how is people saying jordan never loss in the finals and Lebron is 3-5" a pass for Lebron
LeBron is 3-6 now 😂😂😂
franz mutuc 4-6 now
@Drake Dylan Paul Lim If LeBron can accomplish 3 Championship 3peats then I WILL SAY THAT HE'S BETTER than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant... his basketball career ain't over yet.... Well see about that 🙄
@Drake Dylan Paul Lim why not.. right?
Yeah lebron gonna 2 3peat because the players today suck
Jordan 1-9 without pippen
Bron fans love to bring up “1-9 without pippen” that’s the first 10 playoff games jordan played in his first 3 years in the nba between 3 playoff series.
Before we get into it Lebron First game in the nba: Oct 29,2003 and his first playoff game ever played in the NBA: April 22, 2006. At least jordan was playing in the playoffs since his rookie year not taking 2.5 yrs like bron.
Jordan’s first 3 seasons
* 1985 NBA Season - Bucks 59-23
* (Jordans rookie season)
* Bulls loses to Milwaukee Bucks (3-1)
* 1986 NBA Season - Celtics 67-15
* (1 of the greatest teams ever)
* Bulls loses to Boston Celtics (3-0)
* 1987 NBA Season - Celtics 59-23
* (1 of the greatest teams ever)
* Bulls loses to Boston Celtics (3-0)
Jordan avg. 35.5, 6.3, 6.9, 2.4 SPG, 1.9 BPG in those 10 post season games playing on a Chicago team known as the traveling cocaine circus before he was drafted because the players were a bunch of drug addict bums. Jordan had no one. They didn’t lose because of jordan and they didn’t lose they didn’t have pippen it was because he didn’t have anyone.
They also fail to mention how jordan avg. 43.67 ppg against the Celtics in the 1986 playoff series against the Celtics which is the #1 highest playoff series ppg in the history of the NBA.
As a 21 year old rookie he put up 29/6/9/3/1 going 1-3.
As a 22 year old sophomore he put up 44/6/6/2/1 going 0-3.
As a 23 year old third year player he put up 36/7/6/2/2/ going 0-3.
Then Pippen was drafted and they still lost 4-1 to the Pistons in the second round. Lost the ECF next two years.
It's not like Pippen came in and they suddenly won championships. There was growing that any young player and team has to go through.
Pippen avg. 8-4-2 when he first joined the bulls
Why you jordan fans doesn’t use that with LEBRON thou I understand he lost to a better team and so did LEBRON y’all say LEBRON has finals loses as if jordan would of won in lebrons shoes 👞 but clearly he wouldn’t have cause he has loses
facts yo
@@boonebeasley9622 why do you say y'all acting like everyone on the other side is exactly the same. This guy understands context and would know how to apply it to all players.
Can we all just halt with all the Lebron vs Jordan comparisons. Lebron still has 5+ years in the NBA to go, then we can compare, but for now let's just appreciate greatness
Jake C those 5 years are just going to add to all time numbers. But jordans all time numbers come at way less games than other players. That's what makes him stand out.
Just look at lebrons played games. He's 9 games behind jordans whole career. It gives you a picture perfect comparison of what Jordan did in that time.
Gmoney Mozart why discredit someone for doing better for a longer time?
Gmoney Mozart While Jordan has played more games Lebron has taken less shots so games aren't everything
Jake C Love how people bring up less shots but don't mention LeBron shot more 3PTers and freethrows. Jordan also played college and stopped playing for 18 months while he was in his prime. If Jordan had come out of high school and played for 20 seasons like Kobe and Kareem did there's no doubt Jordan would have all the scoring records.
Keith Grenier then why didn't MJ go to the NBA straight from highschool and play baseball. It's his fault not Lebrons
Back then teams like the Celtics had chemistry that takes years to develop. Jordan was finding his own. And after he started weight lifting, game over!
That 86 Celtics were considered the best of all time!!.... They Had Four Hofers and Danny Ainge
Dwayne Wade is a Hofer but he's not that good anymore and so is Rajon Rondo
Gary Thompson ok buddy
Johnny Games 123 what was the point of making that comment
@@martindagoat3909 trying to save lebrons legacy lmao
Chris Smith the warriors had Klay Steph KD and Andre
Once Pippen became a legit All-star they never lost a playoff series again where MJ was on the team the whole year. Pippen did make an all-star team in 89 but he hadn't reached his prime yet. He only Averaged 16PPG and had a 16 PER that season. He still had the "migraine" game in the playoffs in 89-90. He had finally played really well in those playoffs until the ECF vs Detroit. And in game 7 Pippen went 1-10 shooting and they lost. The next season in 90-91 Pippen didn't make the all-star team but his PER jumped to over 20 and he averaged 17.8 PPG, VORP was 5.9. He made 2nd All-Defensive for the first time and his defense was elite in the playoffs to win their first ring. He really became HIM in the 91-92 season during their 2nd title run. That year he made his first All-NBA team (2nd tm) and his first 1st Team All-Defensive .
straight faxx somebody send this video to mike korzemba pleas
Riley Freeman Korzemba's recent video really disappointed me. His content is slipping. He left out so much information and context when discussing Jordan/LeBron. Korzemba seems like he's just trying to appeal to the masses now, while Dom is being truly unbiased on either side.
Stuff and Thaaangs I feel the exact same way
Like when he said that Teams collapse without Lebron James. The Cavs sure, but the heat was so riddled with injuries the year he left. I mean, Bosh got blood clots, what do you expect. And then despite that, They managed to make it to 7 games in the 2nd round against Toronto the very next year, which pretty much destroys that argument.
I haven't follow Korzemba for a while but he gotten that bad already? That was disappointing.
+iamhungey12345 he made a bad video, he isn't a bad guy
I Wish MJ never retired 2x! Imagine the stats🔥
He retired once. He was actually suspended the first time and the league/media covered it up.
Got any proof of this?
Please do share.
@@sammyhalljr9566 LMAO no he wasn't that was a rumor that was created by Jordan haters in the media he retired cause his dad died
He retired cause he could only have 6. 2x3 peats that was the deal with the devil
Lol no if mj didnt retire he'd still face the indomitable hakeem olajuwon and we all know what's the bulls greatest weakness their frontcourt
The truth behind Lebron 7 finals in a row? The answer: James Jones
lmaooo
MJ is the GOAT.
Greetings from Iquitos, Perú.
the goats tied literally always have and will be both wilt chamberlain and bill russell
Gary Thompson Nigga says who?!?! They played in the 60’s one of the weakest eras in basketball and with a league of 8 total teams lmao
From drug dealer smh
@@youtuber3328 🤡
At the end of the day LBJ has played on great teams and lost disgracefully. MJ, no. And this upload doesn't even go on to tell the rest. I love Pippen, but his first 3 years he was utter crap. Horace Grant was better than Scottie his first couple of seasons. And the reason the Bulls got past Detroit in 91' wasn't Pippen, it was BJ. And even the Bulls players on the team say it was really in 92' that Pippen started to blossom. I think I'll take the word of guys on the team over dumbass media (and there's too many outlets these days). Plus I have eyes and watched Pippen mess up in games for long before he got good. And why do you think he got good? Even Phil has said MJ helped Pippen develop his game. I don't think LBJ developed Kyrie's game. I don't think he developed Love's game. For young punks who didn't get to see MJ play, you don't know what greatness looks like... so I don't blame you for criticizing. If LBJ was great, you'd probably know what it looks like and criticize less.
meg James and Jordan are both the best of their respected generations. Young kids grew up watching James play and older people watched mj play. So there will always be bias when talking about who’s better. We just have to stop comparing generations and just stop criticizing the stars so heavily.
I think Phil Jackson's triangle offense also helped them
For people arguing about the Jordan and LeBron GOAT argument, Jordan is called the GOAT because of his stats, but his impact on the game is incredible. He helped basketball and inspired many players and NBA stars today.
Slunky 24 so is Lebron/Curry now, and what Kobe did. I honestly think that even though MJ is a better player, that in a decade or 2 Lebron will be considered the GOAT. We like the people we grow up watching.
Suburban White Teen that says the n word every day
mj GOAT
lebron GOoAT
Suburban White Teen that says the n word every day, don't include Steph Curry. Curry ain't even a top 5 player now. Westbrook, Durant, Leonard, Harden, including LeBron are already 5 players over Curry. He needs to be more elite in other aspects other than scoring by shooting threes
Anthony Celestin What I meant was he is an inspiration to kids that are more undersized. I know the other guys you named do that too, and I'm no Warrior fan, but let's give the 2x MVP some credit
Suburban White Teen that says the n word every day 6'6' is undersized?
I think you got it the wrong way around. People aren't blaming MJ for not winning a playoff series before Pippen arrived, they are saying LeBron shouldn't be critisized for getting having to go to Miami to win a ring, because the Cavs just didn't put him in the position to win. The point they make is that not even MJ won a Chip before he had a good team put around him in 90-91 and didn't even win a playoff series before Pippen arrived, so why criticize LeBron for leaving Cavs, where he was never put into a position to win, which is also the reason people shouldn't criticize LeBron for losing in 2007 when even getting to the Finals that year was already incredible considering how trash that team was. Now I totally agree that LeBron with those cavs obviously never faced teams as great as Jordan did in his early years, but I think the way you put it, you got it wrong. People don't criticize MJ for not winning in those early years, they just think it's unfair criticizing LeBron for it, therefore pointing out that Jordan also couldn't do it.
Lennart Rentzow I couldn't have said it better
That's funny because LeBron also waited 7 years and didn't get anything from the cavs. After 7 years, Jordan had a great suppoting cast that made him able to win the Championship where as LeBron didn't get one good player to play alongside him in 7 years. And then he left. Don't know how you can blame him for leaving after the Organisation wasted 7 years of his career.
Lennart Rentzow Difference is that MJ WAITED until he got help while LeFlop LEFT as soon as he got the chance to! Smh! LeFlop DIDN'T want to face real competition so he decided to form a super team in Miami & when that didn't last...he went & formed ANOTHER super team when he returned to Cleveland! (who just so happened to get "lucky" & win the draft lottery 3 outta the 4 years that he was in Miami SMFH!) That's 2 seperate super teams that the so called "best player on the planet" has been a part of! MJ NEVER played on a super team nor needed MULTIPLE all stars, just so he can win championships & let's get real...Pippen WASN'T a factor when he got to the Bulls! He became a great defender & player bc MJ molded him into one...& how could u not count LeFlop's very 1st Finals loss? Smh. You ppl give LeChoke the most passes & excuses ever! If anybody else took his 07 Cavs to the Finals & got swept that player would get bashed for it but since it's the queen well...let's just sweep his 1st Finals loss under the rug & not count it as an actual loss right? Smfh! Btw...MJ's Bulls were BUILT from the ground up, they WEREN'T BOUGHT & ORCHESTRATED like LeFlop's teams were...why do u think he's been to 7 straight Finals? It's because of his all starred super teams that he's been a part of! MJ NEVER played with the talent that LeFlop has played with which means that MJ played with LESS all stars & STILL DOMINATED, retiring as the GOAT which he still is right now. It's a reason why everybody gets compared to MJ & not the other way around.
qsplak But why wait for help when your GM's aren't giving it to you? Most of these GM's don't care about winning championships but only about making money. Many great players throughout history (i.e. Barkley, Wilkins, Ewing, Miller, etc.) wasted their best years waiting for their owners to put good teams around them to win, only for them to go ringless and be the butt of jokes for many years (look at how they treat Barkley). Chicago's staff was sensible enough to do acquire players that fit MJ's style giving him the best chance to win. A player's legacy is judged by how many championships they win whether we like it or not, and guys like LeBron and KD see that. You can't blame them for leaving. If the team isn't making an effort to give you the best chance to win, why not go elsewhere?
J P You make it seem like lebron went to a championship team he went to a team with a whole new roster and zero chemistry
I actually had the pleasure of seeing MJ and those 90's Bulls play in person on a couple occasions, and I've seen Lebron too. While Lebron is good, and I'm not knocking what he's accomplished, there was just something otherworldly about MJ when he got going that I have never seen in any other player. That is why MJ can't be challenged by Lebron in the GOAT debate in my eyes. People who never saw Michael just don't get it, and it's not easily explained.
It's because you see a bunch of GREAT players on a more regular basis so u accustomed to it now. Back then u probably seen 6 games max a week....now u see 5 a night
@@mical2great you dont want to admit the truth
@@mical2great stop it 🤣🤣
@@mical2great Jordan in UHF was better than Lebron in 4K 🤷♂️
I talked to plenty of ppl that saw both of them play that say lebron is better 🤣🤣
Leflop couldn't even make playoff before Larry Hughes came
Jordan sucks
@@georgiee5796 sound dumb af
lebron's 2005 record was 42-40, tied with nets, but didn't make playoffs coz of tiebreaker rules. Jordan's record his first 3 playoffs were 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42, all 8th seeds . I love Jordan, but I don't think he's the goat, neither is lebron. I'll go with the guy who lost 1 game before his pro years and dominated when he got to the NBA that he got the most points ever.
Guys stan these two players who can't even touch the Bucks record with Kareem on his first season, 56-26. Sorry Jordan and Lebron fans. You guys just follow media hype. Check your guy's impact on the team first before heralding them as GOATs
W
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO, It was needed. Another amazing video, god bless you Dom.
The bulls didn't draft Pippen. I believe the Supersonics did.
interdimensional: yes, but they traded him before he ever joined them
@@vulcanraven9701 still drafted him
@@Xjebin correct. The Bulls built their team old fashioned way, as all teams should stride to do
They traded him for Onar Polynice
Lebron fans that talk about 1-9 also forget that Lebron didn’t even make the playoffs his first 2 years until they got Larry Hughes
lebron's 2005 record was 42-40, tied with nets, but didn't make playoffs coz of tiebreaker rules. Jordan's record his first 3 playoffs were 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42, all 8th seeds . I love Jordan, but I don't think he's the goat, neither is lebron. I'll go with the guy who lost 1 game before his pro years and dominated when he got to the NBA that he got the most points ever.
Guys stan these two players who can't even touch the Bucks record with Kareem on his first season, 56-26. Sorry Jordan and Lebron fans. You guys just follow media hype. Check your guy's impact on the team first before heralding them as GOATs
Dom2k the 🐐 for uploading this
It is obvious to anyone who didn’t just go with the narrative that it was because his team wasn’t good. Pippen didn’t have much to do with MJ dismantling the Cavs in the first series they played together. I mean Pippen averaged 10.6 points and yeah that helps a little but come on now. MJ averaged 45.2 points on .559 shooting. He scored 105 combined points in the first 2 games out of the Bulls 210 points. He needed a few points to outscore all his teammates combined in game 4 but he shot 72 percent.
Also Bron wasn’t what I’d call good in his first NBA Finals against the Spurs. He averaged 5.8 turnovers and shot .356 percent for the series and a couple games were 1 and 3 point losses. It is what it is and Spurs had the better team but Bron himself didn’t really have a good outing there.
I don’t see how an avg 7-10 points pippen helped Jordan win a playoff game.............
Ikr lol those lebron fans/mj haters crack me up
what about the defense pippen provided, allowing jordan to not wear himself out. that allows someone to stay more consistent offensively and defensively
yes but wat bout pippen averaging 7-10 points per game? Lebron had dwade n bosh dat was great 2 way players
What about it??
Donna Dunbar Who care about 7-10 points a game, When Lakers faced Bulls in finals Magic bodies Michael Jordan when Jordan guarded him and Lakers won first game, Pippen was put on Magic the rest of the series and Lakers didn’t win another game. Find a stat for that SMH
Pippen was a non factor in his first 2 seasons. boy avg 11 pt. in his first playoff series while MJ avg 45pts. the fact is this, every season that Pippen was actually a good payer and he and MJ played most of a season together, they won a title.'90-'91 -'96-'97 with MJ retiring and playing a partial season in between. and then MJ did an all time solo carry job to a title win in '98.
meanwhile Lebron in '07 was the reason the cavs lost to the Sppurs because he couldn't shoot, avg only 22 pts (les than Tony Parker) and committed 23 turnovers in the series. nobody ever mentions how turnover prone Lebron is or how he can't even shoot an avg % if it's not a dunk or layup.
Lebron couldn’t shoot against them pistons uuh
@@maljones1398 Definitely couldn't against Jason Terry.
PEOPLE TALK ABOUT RINGS BUT JORDAN WAS GREAT BEFORE HE WON A RING..BIRD CALLED HIM GOD IN SHORTS WAY BEFORE A RING AND YALL GIVING PIPPEN TOO MUCH CREDIT HE’S A SIDEKICK AT BEST GTFOH
Anybody who puts Lebron over Michael Jordan legacy don’t understand Lebron still has work to do to catch him
James proved he is a more efficient scorer and on place the break Kareem record. James proved he can play all five positions. James proved he can defend all five positions. James proved father time is on his time. James proved he a better clutch shooter...Honestly, if we look at them on an individual level and leave team success out of it, what does James have to add to his game to make him on par with Jordan?
Chris R. he won’t ever catch him that’s the thing he already ruined it in 2011
Terrell Leach actually fuckin winning and not bitching to the media every time he takes a fuckin L
Terrell Leach and quit being such a stat nerd nigga, like my god nobody was taking on when kobe was on pace to pass mj
@@terrellleach3486 no way in hell is he more clutch than jordan not even close.
And Pippen saying Lebron won championships without help is like dropping a vitamins from my mouth. He went over MJ and forgot how Lebron was helped by Wade, Bosh,Irving and Davis
Helped?lol go cry air sexual
My thing is this nobody mentions how in the 80s Larry had mchale Parish, DJ n Danny ainge Magic had Kareem Worthy Scott n Coop Isaiah had Rodman Dumars laimbeer Auguire etc yet Mike was supposed to play all that alone n WIN?? That literally makes no sense to criticize him for fans or the media
Exactly. Don't forget about Moses, Cheeks, Dr.j & Barkley Sixers or Moncrief, Cummings, Pressey & Pierce Bucks. Jordan entered the East at arguably it's peak with very little help, and no veteran players with Playoff or Championship experience.
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 right but praise Lebron for dragging teams in the weak conference
@@qdontae6 Even that is a myth, 18 is the only yr LeBron "dragged" a team to the Finals, & that was only the 2nd & 3rd round.
Jordan was teammates with Cokeheads early on thats why 😂
Fredy Vergara Show Not a real excuse. Another Jordan fans excuse for whenever Jordan lost. A lot of teams had cokeheads in that era, not just the bulls. Also coke doesn’t hurt someone’s basketball ability. Dwayne McClain admitted he was on coke when Villanova beat Georgetown to win the NCAA tournament. Coke is an upper, weed would hurt basketball ability not coke. No I’m not advocating using cocaine. I’m just killing another Jordan excuse.
Watch the universe galaxy
@@naturenupe6 Well someone had a teaamate which played to the highest level, but he choke, there are lots of players that out played him, he had memorable moments, such as :
The Sweep
"The Choke
The Cramps
The Cast
The Help me
That all his fans had an excuse for every loss he had..
@Miguel Bajarias Lebron GOAT( Going On Another Team) he scored just 3 points in a game, and secure that Finals lost by contributing 8 points to his team.
@Miguel Bajarias 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great video, I think you are right about how the media has been coming foR Jordan's legacy, but I think they have been coming for pippens legacy as well. It's ashame really! These guys were absolutely awesome and the sick and twisted thing about it is that some people use an assortment of these same arguments to try and discredit either one of these guys or both of these guys.
1-9 against 5 HOF player's.
Bird
McHale
Dennis Johnson
Robert Parrish
Bill Walton
And with Charles Oakley and Brad Sellers being his 2nd and 3rd best player's on the team. Of course you're not gonna beat a team as seasoned as the 80's Celtics with that around you. You needed what Magic and the Lakers had...Or those great Pistons team's. I don't care how amazing MJ was he wasn't beating 5 HOF player's at 22 and 23 yrs old with nothing around him...Hell 2 tha mufucka naw! That ain't happening!
Ahmad2423 Right. I don't get why people are even making this argument. That's the point of context. Why is 30 win team expected to beat a 60 win team?
Zack W. You get bunch of ignorant people. Who don't look a Lil further at the entire situation. They're was no way possible he could have defeated a team like that with this on the floor.
Sam Vincent
Brad Sellers
Charles Oakley
Dave Corzine
Really...Your gonna beat a top 5 player of All-time in Bird. And 4 other HOF player's...GTFOH that ain't happening no way no how!
it would be like if lebron didn't have kyrie, or kevin love and he would be playing the warriors in the first round ,he wouldnt even be 1-9 probably 0-10
J Cruz Exactly...
Ikr. That celtics team that swept 23,24 year old mj are on warriors level and Jordan still average 40 vs celtics🤷. Lebron neva average 40 in a playoffs or finals series. N wen pippen came pistons beat bulls 3 straight years. Mj was averaging 36ppg with 7 assist n rebs while pippen avg 9 points😂😂😂. Mj carried pippen
I don’t even know why this is even a discussion tbh Lebron fans always bring up Jordan being 1-9 in the playoffs without Scottie but then they seem to forget that lebron would only have 1 finals appearances and no championships without dwade, bosh, kyrie and love
Christian Hernandez yeah exactly hence why I think it’s dumb to criticize Jordan being 1-9 without Scottie when lebron also wouldn’t have any rings without love, kyrie, wade and bosh. Everyone needs help the only person that can say they won without another star player is dirk
This video actually explains a lot, thanks
The only reason I at times discredit Jordan is because they make it seem as though he never lost and did everything himself. When LeBron carries a team and loses he gets criticized but when jordan can't get past the first round its not his fault. I'm not as bias as some LeBron fans but the argument is used to clarify that Jordan lost alot as well. But most fans are oblivious to that
Dumb things? Are you a LeBron hater? LeBron is easily the smartest player in the nba. The criticism he gets is absolutely insane. They pretty much want him to be a perfect basketball player which is impossible for anyone. Anytime his teammates step up more than he does he gets criticized even if he was still an influential piece. The man can dominate an entire series and people will emphasize 1 bad game like he's supposed to be perfect.
chris tiod what?? When Lebron loses he gets a pass 07 finals and 2015 finals are two primary examples
Len Walker then why do people constantly bring up the 3-4 argument when only 1 of those losses was his fault (in 2014 he averaged 28 on 58% fgp) it's as if its better to get knocked off in the first round then to lose in the finals.
chris tiod We talking about on the big stage bruh. Where the mf shit count. LBJ talk alot of shittt. But don't back up a mf thing. What happen to all those RINGS. He said he was going to win in Miami? 2 RINGS he won. And one because of that dude Ray Allen. 14 years in the league. Ran to another man team for help. Playing in this soft ass league. Weak weak weAk ass east. And he still got only 3 chips. That's pathetic
Blake Seduction your argument is so biased that responding with facts that nullifies your criticism is a waste of time considering how hard-headed you seem.
This is a old vid but this one alone made me subscribe!!! Keep it up!! Love the unbiased opinion and facts
The biggest joke is the idea that Lebron is a better playoff performer than Jordan. Or that Jordan couldn't perform in playoffs without so and so. His team may not have won but look at the numbers and Jordan is constantly the MVP of all playoff series he has played (bar 2 . . . Which he won)
If you use the gamescore stat (overall effectiveness of a player) Jordan has been the best player in every single playoff series he has played except 2 where he was the 2nd beat player.
96 round 1 pippen 22.7, Jordan 22.3
96 Finals Kemp 18.9, Jordan 18.5
Jordan won both series and was only 0.4 behind the best player.
He has played in 37 series so 5.4% of the time Jordan wont be the best player in the playoff series . . . But a very close 2nd. And he has never lost a series and not been the MVP for that series.
Lebron has 10 times not been the best player in a series he has played in.
06 R1 2nd G Arenas 24.7 L James 23.6
07 Finals 4th! (Lost) T parker 16.2, T Duncan 15.3, M Ginobili 11.6, L James 10.6
08 R3 2nd (Lost) Garnett 17.6, L James 17.5
11 R2 2nd D Wade 23.8, L James 17.5
11 Finals 3rd! (Lost) D Wade 23.8, Dirk 16.6, L James 13.7
16 R1 2nd K Irving 19.7, L James 18.3
17 Finals 2nd (Lost) K Durrant 30.3, L James 29.6
20 R1 2nd A Davis 27.7, L James 25.6
20 R2 2nd J Harden 23.4, L James 22.9
20 R3 2nd A Davis 24.4, L James 24.1
So James has played in 49 playoff series and in 10 of them he hasnt been the best player so there is a 20.4% chance James wont be the best player compared to Jordans 5.4% . . .
Lebron has not been the best player 4 times in a series he has not won (Jordan has never done this)
Lebron has finished 3rd or worse twice! Both in finals and both he lost! Jordan has never finished worse than 2nd and both times was juat behind 1st.
Dont ever argue that L James is a better playoff performer than Jordan. Because its just pure plain wrong.
This is excellent
It's too bad you didn't get to see him in his prime. I'm not a basketball fan but boy did I love watching him run that court. I myself only saw him whenever he played the Boston Celtics or when it was playoff time and he was something to behold. It was like watching poetry in motion. There was always a moment when you said dam MJ is gunna take over and bury whom ever he was playing.
The whole MJ was 1-9 in the 1st round that I see some fans repeat to minimize MJ always comes off as ignorant to me. Not only did they take their thoughts and talking points from Nick Wrong but they're also participating in bs childishness. Honestly what's the obsession with nitpicking MJ or even LeBron when MJ fans trash him as well. It's all very stupid. Just appreciate their greatness. Every player needs help and no player is perfect. You can have yout GOAT without trashing another player just to feel better about your choice or to try to make a knowledgeable point. It All comes off dumb.
Dom2k just wrecked Mike Korzemba
Us here in Chicago know the Pippen effect didnt kick in for like 4 years
16.9 career ppg proves ur wrong 😭 Pippen came in as a good ass player
@@gaswvtv1400 7.9 1st year and 14 ppg second year. Plus dont forget how Pip kept bitching up those first 3 years
moneyearl78 do I not realize that that isn’t in anyway bad? And he was way more of a defensive player than he was offensive? I guarantee ur one of those ppl that say Pippen didn’t change Jordan at all.
@@gaswvtv1400 you sound stupid bruh. I watched all that up close, even went to a lot of those games. Pip was ok but he wasnt a dog at first. You and the rest of Lebron stans dont even like or respect Pip. You just use him to downplay MJ. After Pip had the migraine game. MJ got everybody in the gym on weights. Pip was good but you young boys dont really know how much MJ carried the team. Pip had a lot more bad games than MJ. So MJ carried him way more than he had to carry MJ
moneyearl78 is there a 6-0 without Pippen?
MJ mixtapes and records or non NBA plays before damn his the goat period. 👍😊☺️
that is why jordan is the goat he didn't give up and just continue to improve and 1 by 1 he got the right teamates for him unlike the wannabe goat who give up on his team and join a team with multiple superstar and fyi jordan didnt want to be called the goat because he thinks that's a disrespect to the other greats before him and this wannabe goat really said he is the goat lmao
That litterly shows who's the goat, MJ never said im the best or anything like that, He KNEW but didnt say, LeBum trynna make it clear he is the best while it isnt because he aint
MJ for sure thought he was the GOAT, but he didn’t say it; he proved it.
He got the right teammates because the Bull’s front office wasn’t incompetent. Can you blame him for leaving Cleveland? When it was obvious that Cleveland wasn’t giving him any help?
Here's how the argument always goes with my bias cousin who thinks Lebron is Jesus
"...and Jordan was 1 and 9! He lost every step of the way until he got one of the greatest players ever Scottie Pippen!"
me: "Yeah and Lebron got the finals and got swept... in the finals. You know, when it's the biggest game of the season and it's all on the line?"
him: "Well at least he got to the finals! I'd rather see an amazing player carry a team from nothing to the finals all by himself and lose than MJ being helped by everyone!"
me: "The East is a breeze nowadays and it doesn't take much to get close. Of course he's gonna get them there. It's in the West nowadays where the bulk of the competition is. Does GS ring a bell? Also Michael was not helped by everyone. He had one, just one, other all-star player and that was Pippen. What about the times Lebron got swept AND the time in 2011 against the mavs when he was losing to a roleplayer?"
At that point he throws up stats like "he scored 30 points every game in the last playoff season" or something like that and I don't deny how great Lebron is and then I say how MJ got triple teamed in the 90's as a shooting guard and still make baskets without a big man like Shaq or Lebron being Lebron.
Then he just starts saying how great Lebron is and how everyone is against him, and it always ends with me telling him one of two things. Either:
"He's set against him because MJ changed basketball." or when I just wanna troll him "Lebron may walk on water, but Jordan walks on air." He's never had a response to that.
1 in 9 or not,MJ is still the greatest player of all time.There should never be any comparison in the first place.
Lebron has gotten swept AGAIN.
He did pretty good though. He averaged 34 points and had a higher 3 point% and FG% than KD.
Lebron played awful in 2018 finals and kd outplayed him in all 3 finals they met
Donna Dunbar Did you say LeBron played awful in 2018. You mean the same year he had a better Game 1 than any game KD has ever had in his entire career. The same year he averaged more points, assists, and steals than KD by a WIDE margin, plus a higher FG%. The same year he made it to the finals with a roster that we both know had no business anywhere near the finals. Yeah, shut up idiot.
Bro ya bragging about 1 game. Wat bout game 2 3 n mos def 4. He fasho played awful in game 4 n he did not avg more points than kd or assist by wide margin. N kevin love a superstar 🌟 to ya forgot? Kyle korver top 10 3point shooter all time.
N all those descent role players plus went up against Boston with no Hayward and kyrie. Klove average 21ppg 11rpg n lead nba playoffs in rebounds. Lebron was not by himself dude
Donna Dunbar Lmao, you’re proving my point and contradicting yourself at the same time. You said they had loads of talent that performed well but then you said they could barely get past a weakened Celtics, which is it? I’ll tell you which one, it’s the second one, that team had no business facing the Warriors, everyone saw that sweep coming from a mile away. The only reason they made it to the Finals was because LeBron stepped it up to another level. Also, you’re criticizing his finals performance when his team played so badly that he only scored 23 point but it was still more than the second and third highest scoring players combined. Only 3 other players scored double digits(13, 10, 10) and they got blown out by 20+ points. If he had scored 40 but still lost, you would’ve called him a stat padder. You haters are retarded AF 😂 😂
Eastern Conference during Jordan's day was the more competitive Conference, compared to the JOKE Eastern Conference of today.
the 1991 pistons 1992 cavaliers 1993 knicks 1996 magic 1997 heat and 1998 pacers all made it to round three to face the bulls led by michael jordan
Lebron fans criticize Jordan for losing in the first round of the playoffs his first few seasons. But did they really expect a young MJ to beat a stacked Celtics team, when MJ's best teammate was Orlando Woolridge??? Also they conveniently forget that Lebron didn't even make the playoffs his first two years (which is worse than getting bounced in the first round).
Exactly.
Lebron has flat out missed the playoffs 3 times in his career, that's worst than getting knocked out in the first round.
Jordan missed the playoffs twice, at 39 and 40 years old playing for Washington.
THANK YOU!!! I've been saying virtually everything you said in this video(bad Bulls teams against great teams, no help for MJ, the hypocrisy of the way this argument is used, etc), but you broke it down so much better than I ever did. I also appreciate that you admit to not being a "Jordan is the GOAT" guy, but still find this argument pointless. Gives it even more credibility(although it'll likely get ignored by many of the hardcore LeBron fans and you'll just be labeled a hater). From the very bottom of my heart......THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO
Micheal Jordan would hoop everybody in his prime not no debate one on one nobody comparable...
Adrian Colbert he would get shit on by shaq lmao just back Jordans ass down
But its a team game that one on One over shooting cant win finals not in this time where kid's are coming out with the Jordan mentality and shoe contracts to keep.
Lawrence Bangirana jordan got 6 ships from over shooting... your point is invalid
Jordan Barely beat Detriot
he onlt beat em cause they gave up hope
clash of clans tips & tricks MJ always owned shaq in their matchups, get your shit right.
it's not a such things as the greatest players of all time we just need to appreciate greatness different rules and game play are different in both errands a proving point to we just need to appreciate greatness
Mike had to go through almost half of the 50 greatest players of all time!! Who did LeBron have to go through? Jason Terry, or half of a injured golden state team. The only significant win was the spurs and wade and Allen won that one! Lost against all the others!! You people are delusional!!!
Bruh you the delusional one 😂
@@tyresetyler2607 yeah just keep letting the media brainwash all you dumbasses. The brown wouldn't be s*** back in the eighties and early nineties he to f****** soft. Got to have all the best player in the NBA to win and still lost six f****** times! Get the hell out of here with your no basketball knowing ass
Celtics, Spurs, & Warrior super teams like cmon Lebron had great comp don’t be delusional more comp than jordan
@@Willkill1999 dude I'm not a youngster! You can't fool me with that! No way same level of competition! Don't let media fool you. 80s and 80s. Was just better. You don't have to like it, but it's true sir
Crazy how 7 years later, Lebron was defeated in the first round.
Cramp boy will never be greater than Jordan neither is Kobe Jordans the GOAT PERIOD
The best player is MJ period.
the goats tied literally always have and will be both wilt chamberlain and bill russell
*JORBUM CAN'T WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT PIPPEN* 😂
Every star needs help so thank you for stating the bleeding obvious
Lebron lost with wade, bosh, Irving, and Davis. 😊
The "1-9 without Scottie" argument is one of the most deceptive, dishonest, Jordan-hating comments I have ever heard. The truth is, outside of his rookie season, Jordan only played one full season without Pippen present.
Here is my opinion. Winning is all about the cast you have around you. Not one person. Jordan and LeBron can play insane basketball but if their team doesn't show up enough to make a difference to help win a game, it doesn't matter when it is all said and done. Jordan played great basketball to win 6 championships. But to just say Jordan is what won them all is a disservice to the rest of his teammates and let us not forget about his coach, Phil Jackson. Basketball is a team sport and no one player has every won a NBA championship by themselves. Jordan had the biggest impact on his team but didn't win those alone. You win as a team and lose as a team. Every basket counts and is important to finding a winning team at the end of a game. Not just the last few minutes are points important in a game. Jordan and LeBron are both great basketball players. Championships are nice and all but those are won by a collective team effort. If you want to compare who is the greatest of all time and championships is your measure of greatness, then Bill Russell is your winner. If you go by personal stats, you would be hard pressed to not pick Wilt Chamberlain as he could dominate a game like no other. If you want to compare Jordan and LeBron, compare them on individual stats is what I would say. Anything else, compare their teams as you win championships as a team. But as many people will tell you, you will never know who was the best, who had the best team if they were to match up. Everyone played in different eras and we don't have a time machine to see matchups play out. Anything can happen in sports, especially when you are talking about the cream of the crop of teams and players. Enjoy and appreciate the greatness as it unfolds because it won't last forever before an era passes by.
The thing about those stats though is that Lebron didnt face the bad boy pistons who would throw mike out the air every time he went up using the "Jordan Rules" also the rules changed after lebrons rookie season to make it easier for players to get to the basket.
gripitandripit Jordan fans Don't wanna go by stats because they know LeBron dominates in that area so they use the 6 for 6 argument over and over. I choose not to argue with Jordan fans because I already know what they will say. The goat argument is opinion based anyway some ppl will have wilt as the goat or Kareem its all opinions. LeBron is the greatest of this era that's for sure no denying that and Jordan had his time during the 90s.
gripitandripit lebrons performance in the 2011 finals was inexcusable he had a great supporting cast Miami was the better team Jason Terry outplayed him
But not because he didn't show up against Detroit. Detroit at the time had the better team that he lost to in 6 games, hardly classifies as getting raped. Miami was better than Dallas, had home court advantage, were younger & more athletic, Dwyane Wade was playing out of his mind, and Lebron stunk up the joint to a team of a bunch of has-beens. That was Dirk Nowitzki's last great year, but he was their only superstar, Miami had 3, and they lost because Prince James absolutely folded under Finals pressure. Also, Jordan was only a 5th year pro at 26, Lebron was into his 8th season at 26. Magic won a championship his 1st year, Larry his 2nd year, Duncan his 2nd year. Kareem his 2nd year. Is experience overrated? By your 8th season, you should be long ready for the big stage, but give me an example of any season where Jordan lost in the playoffs to a lesser team?
If you go by individual stats and personal achievements Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the greatest player of all time
The 1-9 argument is only used when they bring up lebron finals losses, it literally never get brought up untill mj stans starts to discredit lebron
Exactly
It gets used all the time. It is literally the only argument some people have
In reality, basketball players don't get credit for wins/losses. Jordan stans started that bullshit to boost their drunken God.
@@sammyhalljr9566 wow talk about blinded by devotion. LeBron fans are so happy with finals loses. That's why they are reminded of Jordan having no finals losses
Shaney Nocomplainey 6-0 is the only argument for a man that played 15 yes must’ve suck every other yr
Jordan played with more finesse. Lebron plays more on power. 2 different styles.
so glad these types of videos are made
2023: Lebron needs more help.
You also forgot to mention that those playoff series happened in Jordan's first three seasons (they were the worst team in the East prior to him joining the team. They went from that, to making the playoffs three straight years), while Lebron didn't even *make* the playoffs in his first *two* seasons! So yes, another completely hypocritical argument from Lebron fans!
To be fair, Lebron finally did lead Cleveland to the playoffs and lead them to the second round his very first year in the playoffs in '05-'06 (and then the finals in '06-'07, in his fourth year total), while for Jordan, it took him until his 7th year to make the finals. I'm sure Lebron fans will point that out immediately.
But again, Jordan had to get through several all-time great teams *just* in the *East* to get there! The '84-'85 #2 seed Milwaukee Bucks (one of the greatest defensive teams of all time, still arguably at their strongest), Dr. J's all-time great 76ers team that had just added an incredible new rookie named Charles Barkley (a tandem that was still *very much* a contender throughout the entire 80s, and was even a 3-seed behind the Bucks that first year, going on to defeat that great Bucks team in the second round, before finally getting bounced by the all-time great Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals), the Isaiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, and Dennis Rodman-lead Bad Boys Pistons team that would go on to succeed where the Bucks and 76ers failed, and dethrone the Celtics and the Lakers by the end of the decade, and then of course, you also had Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers teams (take away Magic's Lakers, and every team I mentioned was also in Jordan's *conference.* That, and the depleted roster he had kept getting worse due to drug problems, but he kept finding ways to not only will them to the playoffs, but actually challenge teams every so often in the process. He took a game off the legendary Bucks as a 7th-seed, and he very nearly took a game off the even more legendary all-time great Celtics a year later in his 63-point "Godlike" performance)!
Who did Lebron have in his conference? A Pistons team that won a title against the Lakers superteam in his first year, but had regressed every year since. The Dwayne and Shaq Heat. And that's pretty much it. In his first year in the playoffs, the 3-seed was the Nets (long diminished since their failed Finals days), the 5-seed was the Wizards, the 6-seed was a now Reggie Miller-less, Ron Artest-less Pacers team, the 7th-seed was the Kirk Hinrich-Ben Gordon Bulls (two years before Derrick Rose would be drafted), and the 8th-seed was an awful Bucks team that barely won 40 games that year (seriously, the Wizards actually made the 5th seed with only 42 wins. That's how weak the East was. It got even weaker the following year, with Ben Wallace leaving the Pistons and Shaq showing clear signs of decline as the Heat went from champions to getting swept in the first round. In fact, Cleveland got the 2-seed with only *fifty* wins. Yes, no team 3-seed or below in the East even managed to get 50 wins that season. That's how incredibly weak that conference was. The only team above them, the Ben Wallace-less Pistons, got the #1 seed with only 53 wins! That whole conference was a joke. Credit to Lebron for carrying his team to the finals, but no way he makes it there if he's got Larry Bird's Celtics, Dr. J's 76ers, the Bad Boy Pistons, and the early 80's Don Nelson-coached revolutionary Bucks team in his conference)!
So yes, again, totally hypocritical argument from Lebron fans who say, "hey, he didn't have good players around him and he was playing against an all-time great team in the Gregg Popovic-lead Spurs." Apparently that argument does not apply to Jordan having four all-time great teams in his conference and not only *still* making the playoffs his first three years in a row, but *every* year he was with the Bulls)!
lebron's 2005 record was 42-40, tied with nets, but didn't make playoffs coz of tiebreaker rules. Jordan's record his first 3 playoffs were 38-44, 30-52, and 40-42, all 8th seeds. You keep mentioning Lebron missing the playoffs while MJ making it with 30 freaking wins? I love Jordan, but I don't think he's the goat, neither is lebron. I'll go with the guy who lost 1 game before his pro years and dominated when he got to the NBA that he got the most points ever.
Guys stan these two players who can't even touch the Bucks record with Kareem on his first season, 56-26. Sorry Jordan and Lebron fans. You guys just follow media hype. Check your guy's immediate impact on the team first before heralding them as GOATs
When LeBron stans use this argument, they forget to mention that it took Lbj 3 years to make the playoffs.
Bronsexuals are annoying
Westbrooksexuals and Hardensexuals are way worse than Kobetards.
Three times, not twice.
Miami, back to Cleveland and now LA.
@@jkotaylor9874 you basically being a KobeSexual
@@LarryDaGoat23 no I'm not being a Kobesexual.
dude in a era when players averagely not so athletic, smaller, slower, less skillful, only a few could shoot 3s, no taller players could dribble, no zone defense, no eurosteps, no shammgod, among them lots were skinny with no vertical jump and some ppl call it tougher era, without Pippen's help dude couldn't pass the 1st round. When he retired in 93' bulls went from 57wins to 55wins still.
This is y’all goat, going 1-9 in playoffs without help
Big Mon you mean Scottie 8 ppg and coming off the bench Pippen....... that was the same season Jordan was averaging 35 ppg on 53% shooting lol
yep. just like how lebron got swept in the finals twice. 4-6
also jordan never choked. bron choked in 2011. a choker cant be the goat. it disqualifies you.
EVERY single LeBron fanboy needs to see this
And Michael Jordan is great without using HGH
I’m pretty sure neither take HGH but you can think whatever you want.
He was greater using David Stern, the media and brainwashed stans to defend him and discredit all others for him at every turn.
@@bobjeff6899 take a look at the biogenesis report. Alex Rodriguez and and a bunch of athletes on it
Jordan needed help period. That doesn’t make him trash without it. LeBron needed help, so did Shaq, so did Kobe, so did Duncan, so did Kareem, so did Magic, so did Bill Russel, so did curry, so did KD. Need I go on?
Never biased, always lay out all the facts, and most importantly of all, keep it real! No one breaks down these illogical and completely ignorant arguments like you. Keep up the great work Dom2k!
MJ will always be 🐐
why is it that nobody talks about kareem when its about the goat come on man just look at jabbars resume everything is better than mj.
Leonhart11 its because nba does not like promoting centers as the greatest of all time.
and everything is better than LeBron too soooo
OMG, finally someone with sensible thinking.
I think Jordan is probably the goat, but I would never disagree with somebody if they had Kareem as the goat, Kareem won just as many championships as Jordan and kareems accolades were just as good as Jordans, Kareem also was just as great as an offensive player as Jordan, maybe Kareem is the goat, it's hard to tell because they both played in different era's
How many rings does LBJ have without; wade, bosh, love, or Kyrie 🤔
@Basketball God
Haha.
Both were drafted and trained to be what they were.
All of leborn team mates are already all star by the time they joined Leborn.
And how many rings does Jordan have without Phil Jackson, Steve kerr, Pippen , Rodman ? 😂
Aharon how manny teams did lebrum need tonwin a ring???😂😂😂😂👎👎
The same amount that Jordan has without, Pippen, Rodman, Phil and the all-important rule change by David Stern.
should have been more Heat were stacked!
The first year with the Bulls Scottie was no All Star. MJ showed him the ropes. Showed him the work ethic that would beat the Bad Boy Pistons. Scottie finally understood after MJ's first retirementthe weight of being the face of the franchise. He then appreciated even more the greatness of Mike!
😂 This video should be titled... THE GREATEST EXCUSES TO MICHAEL JORDAN’S 1-9 playoff record!
He got swept😂
please at the very least possible read my playoff and/or goats comments
Kenneth no way LeBron would have done any better. That Bulls team is way worse than any team LeBron has ever been on. And Scottie didn't step up for a very long time. LeBron would be 0-10
true😂
It's not excuses it's facts. Neither lebron james would get past the celtics or pistons and the bucks who were elite teams. Jordan was destroying those teams dropping 60 50 or 40 but didn't have a team that time just like lebron. So that narrative sounds dumb
Lebrun takes breaks in the third quarter while watching his team give up a 15 put lead. Jordan would never allow that.
mj he means his competitive nature wouldn’t let him sit out when his team was doing bad.
Hell Jordan Might've Ridicule Him For It LOL
Youre also forgetting that lebron got the wins to be able to be the 1st or 2nd seed in the playoffs. The reason jordan had to play the loaded celtics in the first round is because they didnt get enough reg season wins
exactly because he had no help! it was jordan and a bunch of journeyman players.
Both on crack.
Faxtionz Back to the fact that LeBron had a better regular-season team to begin with. Jordan had crackheads on his team. Literal crackheads. No joke.
Faxtionz Jordan had to play with crackheads. I am not insulting Orlando Woolridge and Quinton daily. They were on crack. That wasn’t Jordan’s fault. And they quickly got traded, so it disrupted his regular season. Look at what happened when LeBron disrupted this year’s regular season by trying to bring on people and then helping to people leave
Excellent video.
last time I was this early ' the Cavaliers were in trouble '
Woe the ending.
Lebron has played against scrubs in the first round every year
Glenn Mcgollie Even the 2nd round sometimes
doesn't matter you can for example put warriors as first team record still better then Jordan so that comment is invalid
I'm a Jordan fan by the way 😊 and see I stuck for lebron
I mean usually when you are the #1 seed you play the #8 seed. How many 8 seeds are title contenders? 🤷🏾♂️
That usually happens when you the top team in the conference...you play the team that barely made it in. Not James fault that Jordan was on the scrub team in the first round for his first three playoff trips.
very well explained, thank you