Bioshock 2 - Story Explained
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Big Daddies, Little Sisters, and Big Mamas are back as Monty takes Neil and Chase back to Rapture. Choices are made, Neil gets mad, and Chase nearly burns the podcast to the ground over the fate of Alex the Great.
It'll make sense - promise!
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MERCH
monty-zander.myspreadshop.co.uk/
NOOBUS HUMANUS
• Hades - Noobus Humanus
PATREON
/ montyzander
Catch all episodes on Spotify and other usual podcast platforms
open.spotify.com/show/0HmzJwk...
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 - Introduction & Background
00:06:40 - The Adonis Resort
00:25:33 - The Atlantic Express
00:33:15 - Ryan Amusements
00:51:30 - Pauper's Drop
01:08:23 - Siren Alley
01:23:01 - Dionysius Park
01:38:22 - Fontaine Futuristics
02:03:40 - Minerva's Den
02:20:29 - Persephone
ARTISTS REFERENCED
Kaysha siemens
Artissx
Brue Kylnn
griefgreen
PIXEL LIT
pixellitpod.com/
RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 (PART 2)
• Red Dead Redemption 2 ...
RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 (PART 1)
• Red Dead Redemption 2 ...
CONTROL: AWE
• Control: AWE DLC - Sto...
CONTROL: FOUNDATION
• Control: The Foundatio...
CONTROL
• Control - Story Explained
QUANTUM BREAK
• What the hell happened...
ALAN WAKE'S AMERICAN NIGHTMARE
• What the hell happened...
ALAN WAKE
• What the hell happened...
METAL GEAR RISING: REVENGEANCE
• What the hell happened...
KINGDOM HEARTS
• What the hell happened...
KINGDOM HEARTS: CHAIN OF MEMORIES
• Kingdom Hearts: Chain ...
KINGDOM HEARTS 2 & RE:CODED
• Kingdom Hearts 2 - Sto...
KINGDOM HEARTS: 358/2 DAYS
• Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 ...
KINGDOM HEARTS: BIRTH BY SLEEP
• Kingdom Hearts: Birth ...
KINGDOM HEARTS: DREAM DROP DISTANCE
• Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dre...
KINGDOM HEARTS: BACK COVER & FRAGMENTARY PASSAGE
this video • Kingdom Hearts: Back C...
KINGDOM HEARTS 3 - PART 1
• Kingdom Hearts 3 (Part...
KINGDOM HEARTS 3 - PART 2
• Kingdom Hearts 3 (Part...
KINGDOM HEARTS: UNION X
• Kingdom Hearts: Union ...
KINGDOM HEARTS: DARK ROAD
• Kingdom Hearts: Dark R...
KINGDOM HEARTS: RE:MIND
• Kingdom Hearts: Re:Min...
KINGDOM HEARTS: MELODY OF MEMORY
• Kingdom Hearts: Melody... 
Игры
Neil and Chase arguing about killing Alex has the same energy as Kaz and Snake arguing about Hal's trial.
Monty you did the ending dirty! I was so confused when he said they got the bad ending after saving the little sisters, sparing the first NPC life, and killing the second and third NPC, because that's exactly what I did and I got the first ending and didn't recall ever seeing the bad ending. After looking it up it's confirmed that you can get the good ending by saving the little sisters and save one of the three NPCs. I'd be curious if that knowledge would change Neil's thoughts about the endings at 2:42:23.
Yeah, what Monty's describing is if Delta harvested all the sisters, then took the spare/kill route that was voted on. Which makes Eleanor's speech about "You taught me to always do what it took to survive" make a lot more sense.
Save all the sisters and spare at least one NPC for the "Mercy" ending. Personally I prefer the "Justice" ending, where you spare no NPCs but save all sisters. It's a little unfair on Grace, but it gets you an Eleanor who talks about fighting to protect the vulnerable that sounds far more positive and heroic than a generically "Good person who does good things and forgives everyone." ending.
BioShock 2 probably has the best gameplay of the lot. Tho I did find a LOT to love in Infinite's simplicty and fast-paced combat. While 1 still has the best story, I connected to Delta and Eleanor's tale a LOT more than anything in the first game. Even shed a few tears at the end (got the best ending!). Burial at Sea (and I know you're gonna hate this, monty lol), for all its FLAWS, did make me V E R Y emotional at the very end. The plot doesn't make a heap of sense, but the actual emotional beat the end does land for me.
Part of the reason is because the director of the game was Bioshock 1's lead game designer
39:06 OMFG YOU MENTIONED THIS ONE!! I don't remember if it got used in the book, but I distinctly remember being peeved off that this audio diary was removed from the game and you can only find the voiced file/transcription.
anyway, this is *THE* reason for why I ended up liking Sinclair so much is how he is supposedly adhering to this philosophy his whole life, only to end up helping you, up until the finale of this game. he's an Ayn Rand hero rejecting that mantle in the end. it's why I feel that this game, as you mentioned in the critique, is about cults, but for the reason I don't believe you mentioned... it's about legacy. and this audiolog just proves that the grandpa's "folly" was something stuck in Sinclair, the legacy of his ways, that ultimately brings him to act like he does in the end. it goes from him to Delta to Eleanor; we don't die, not as part of the collective that Sofia Lamb preached, but as legacy we give to those who we help.
To be clear there are six endings:
Good, spare everyone. - the ending he showed
Good spare sisters kill some people. Eleanor let's lamb drown
Neutral, killed at least one sisters - you pass peacefully without your consciousness being absorbed
Neutral - but lamb dies
Evil killed the girls, spared most - lamb live
Evil genocidal. His first ending
I think there's also slight dialogue difference too but it's minor
I feel it can really change things, the dialogue differences.
Save all, spare all is very generic pure altruistic, but save all spare none leads to the dialogue being more "Protect the weak and innocent, and bring swift retributive justice to those who would abuse them."
And personally I prefer the "Punch Nazis." Ending.
Now the debate on what to do about Gil is making me interested in a Lore Dump for Soma!
A few people have pointed this out, but I'll be specific: There's a Bunch of paths, "Good", "Mixed" or "Bad" Eleanor is based on if you save all the sisters or not, whether she saves her mother is based on how many of the 3 NPCs you killed (Depending on number of saved sisters. If you save them all, then even One surviving NPC will get you the pure good altruistic ending, if you harvest them all, then you have to let all 3 NPCs live to save Sophia, and if you do a mix, it depends on whether you spared or killed more).
The dialogue is different across all 6 endings, and my favourite is the Justice ending. Save all sisters, Kill all NPCs (Shame we can't spare Grace, but oh well). Leading to Eleanor talking about how she has to protect the weak and innocent and vulnerable from those who would harm and exploit them, through swift retribution against the truly evil. And personally, I quite like the idea of Eleanor becoming a super hero who hunts fascists.
Yep thats true, i was looking for someone to mention that, the npcs only affect what happens to sofia lamb, the morality system in this game is really interesting and good because the i personally believe that only grace is worth saving
33:17 On this rollercoaster blind myself, we’ve come to Sinclair and while Chase seems suspicious because he’s our voice in our ear, I’m just suspicious because he’s calling our guy “Sport”
Calls to mind Gatsby, and that may be coincidental but boy howdy that doesn’t inspire confidence…
In my mind, Sophia lamb knew exactly what she was doing when she built on the ashes of Ryan's objectivist paradise. She saw all the discord and suffering under Ryan and bided her time until she could spring "the solution to all their problems" on them; she waited until they were at their lowest to influence them. Prime example of a cult leader as you mentioned. Just because she actually believes her own philosophy (as opposed to consciously feeding the masses a philosophy for the sole purpose of having power over them) doesn't mean she's NOT a cult leader. It wasn't sloppiness on the devs part, it was an intentional characterization of lamb
Just like a lot of collectivist hucksters, really. Lenin used dissent with the Russian nobility to cause mass carnage. Mao did something similar in China (though I am fairly unfamiliar with the specifics)
I actually think that the endings make sense. Delta, Eleanor, and the Little Sisters never gave a damn about Lambs wishes or beliefs. I don't think the endings are supposed to have anything to really do with Lambs philosophies. The ending is more about being an actual parent to Eleanor, and the effect that a parent can have on a child.
1:24:00 Dionysius is also the Greek god of Madness, religious ecstasy, and ritual madness. So I do think that while Monty has a point, it wouldn't be outside the possibility of the park referring to Dionysus the Greek god.
Sofia Lamb saying "reject the selfish gene" at 1:15:25 is like saying "Reject Modernity, Return to Tradition".
I agree with Neil that the fact that these were disenfranchised people that fell for a cult makes for a more tragic story than the first game. It makes it more compelling.
man i can’t wait for the alan wake 2 lore dump
Happiness is getting listen to Lore Dump as I finish up end of the semester projects.
I love that Chase is aware of manicure nail shapes.
I'mma go get a manicure now.
A few things also, I was left under the impression that Big Sisters were simply Little Sisters who grew up. With the ADAM in their bodies mutating them, making them powerful.
Also, Subject Delta was the first Big Daddy to be successfully bonded to a Little Sister. Not the very first Big Daddy. As for the bonding process, Gil Alexander specifically mentioned that in a fight, they would protect the Little Sister. As seen when Suchong gets drilled for smacking a Little Sister. It's implied that they would not work as a pair, with the Big Daddy simply wandering away. What good is a protector if they're reactive and not proactive?
Just discovered this channel when this video showed up in my recommendations, I think because I’m subscribed to Monty Zander?
Absolutely hilarious. After finishing the two Bioshock videos I went to see what else you’ve done and literally laughed out loud when I saw all the Kingdom Hearts episodes. I won’t get to those for a while but I’m dying to know which of you that insanity was new to.
So, before watching, I want to point out that How this game does alternate endings is something I have frequently advocated for.
Most games will snatch control from the player to go "You did X, Ergo you're good/evil incarnate, Ergo you would do this."
I remember when I talked to a friend and he said he didn't see the little sisters as anything but monsters, and saw harvesting them as putting them out of their misery, and a necessary evil to survive and get the hell out of Rapture... And then Jack chooses to be king of Rapture. Practically the opposite of how he characterized it.
But Bioshock 2's endings are "You did X, which means this Other character would do this."
It lets you make your own rationalizations, and doesn't go "No, subject Delta did those acts because of This motivation!", instead, a different character extrapolates his motivations, and may or may not be correct.
glad to see the accents are continuing :)
Yay! Lore time with Daddy Zander and Uncles Chase and Neil! Honestly, y'all have such great chemistry. It's really fun to watch and listen to. Keep it up!
Durign my recent replay of BioShock 2, I realized that Grace Holloway's voice was suddenly VERY familiar to me. Some quick Googling revealed that she was voiced by the lovely Sheryl Lee Ralph, aka Mrs. Barbara Howard from "Abbott Elementary". She is VERY good as Grace. If you, the girl reading this comment :3 , haven't watched this show... Check it out!! It is a funny, charming, mockumentary-style sitcom about a handful of teachers who run a poorly-funded public school in Philadelphia.
54:00 the book implies that the people and their families who made rapture were misled in coming to rapture with the promise of work so many poor people came to rapture
Sooooo chase is an evil scientist is what I’m understanding from his employement?
Once more into the deep. Can't wait to give this a listen lads. Enjoy the holidays
32:37 forgot that Sinclair was thin(-ish) in the book and, with all respect to Artissx, almost yelled out loud "THAT'S NOT MY SINCLAIR, WHERE'S HIS TUMMY??"... so uh, I really like Sinclair! he's a really fun "you expect him to be Atlas/Fontaine, but he *isn't* while still being a bit of a bastard, especially with his past" character. and the only reason at one point my tumblr handle wasn't "augustussinclairs" is because one of my dear mutuals took it first :P
anyway, I'm so happy listening to this episode of Lore Dump. BioShock 2 is my personal favourite, even if, objectively, it is *not* the best, but I just love the characters more, and feel like that game was my first window into the "father and daughter survive trauma/apocalypse" video game subgenre that took over the industry later.
Its not lost on me of how the black woman who came to Rapture to possibly get away from the racism of the surface, was put in the role of mother for Eleanor.
This does not take away that Grace actually loved Eleanor but Sophia Lamb did put her in the postion of the "Mami" archetype.
This arhetype pervaded a lot of media post slavey (and is still portray today see "The Help") The idea black woman are to take of the burdens of the world like rasing children of white women, but still lacked their own autonomy. This happend during slavey and post slavery.
The Big Sisters are uncured little sisters that grew up and became female equivalences to Big Daddy's but have plasmids and are more agile and faster.
Minervas den happens alongside bioshock 2 not a year before
Best part of this game is the villain is literally just Siobhan Thompson
Loved this dump guys! Always happy to have more lore dumps, just what I needed to start out the weekend! I think Monty did a great job being fairly neutral in narrating despite having gripes with the game (except for the ending choices). I personally love this game despite it's faults, unlike the Infinite... I'm excited but a bit scared to jump into the Infinite lore dump because I really didn't enjoy that game, but that won't stop me from listening! I'm definitely interested to hear what Neil and Chase have to say about it!
In defense of this bring set in rapture and not a new place, like you said in the beginning this game was a space filler, making a new place would mean making new assets
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THISS ONEEE YAY
I'm working 60s all month and videos like this these help the 10hr shift go by quicker.
Important to mention I feel: the big sisters are actually grown up little sisters iirc. With the madness and pain caused by the Adam slug in them, they were prime candidates for mental reworking, leading to the big sister program. It also thematically plays into tanenbaums return to rapture, as the kidnappings had been going on long enough for these girls to grow up after being turned. It reflects her sense of dread as to what she has done that these girls grew up to be a new form of monster being used as a pawn by a cult that grew off of the corpse of a society she helped build. Just an interesting fact, love your guy's show, keep up the good work!
So correction; sorry I listen to these at work and miss bits. You do mention the big sisters, but importantly, the little sisters do grow up, they don't get transformed and then turned back. The Adam slug stops producing Adam during pubescence. The brainwashing from suchong, combined with the extra hormones(?) from the slug that made them grow faster drove them crazy. Gil Alexander and Lamb then further harnessed this aggression and gave the big sisters purpose, creating the diversuit wearing baddies we now know.
Not gonna lie, the Lethal Company ditty was in my head during the entire portion with Alexander.
We are all Great Assets in Fontaine Industries
Heck yeah, perfect way to start the week!
I last replayed the bioshocks after the remasters were released, so its been many years since ive last pkayed them, but a very much have enjoyed these podcasts and also the analysis you've done on them Monty.
That being said i must have missed your BioShock 2 analysis or something because when you mentioned Minerva's Den i legitimately got teary eyed, i hadn't thought about milton and pearl in what feels like forever. Damn fine story.
Love the podcast, glad i checked it oit!
BioShock 2 was one that gradually grew on me after playing it a few times. I really enjoyed the multiplayer back when the game released & the online scene was thriving more; wish they would have kept that aspect in the remastered versions.
I liked the option for various endings & there felt like reason to pursue those endings as well to see how your relationship with Elenor concluded, as opposed to Bioshock 1 where there wasn't really a reason to harvest little sisters in the long run & the bad ending fell short (although to be fair, Ken Levine did state he didn't really want to do the multiple ending route for the 1st game, and was down to the publishers pushing the option).
Although both BioShock 1 & 2 had great characters, I appreciated Bio 2's more human cast, which made the connection to the characters & choice to spare each of them all that more impactful, and even made characters like Grace Holloway rethink their judgement of you & question Sophia Lamb. Still yet to play the Minerva's Den DLC as well.
Have been enjoying your Lore Dumps of the series, especially getting a better understanding of the philosophies of those that have ruled over Rapture.
needed this for finals week🙏
Plot of BS2: Quirked up utopian girl with a little bit of ADAM busts it down psychological style... is she boated with the sauce?
I'll be honest, I prefer BioShock 2 specifically because it doesn't try to make the whole philosophy aspect as big of a factor.
It always felt like a more personal story with regards to Delta and Eleanor. Your choices matter more because there are people they affect who can interact with you. They are influenced by your decisions, inspired by you. Eleanor looks to you as a hero, an example to follow. As powerful as she is, your guidance is paramount.
Haven't gotten past it yet but fascinated to find out what made Monty drop *that* word about Stanley in a show where Ayn Rand and Margaret Thatcher have been talked about lol
Let's goooo so excited for this video.
Oh hell yes I've been waiting for this one.
Waking up to lore dump always makes my day
heck yeah perfect timing since im stuck waiting for 4 hours
So excited 😆 for this one!
I played this one pretty young so I have really fond memories of this game. For some reason so the more simple and emotional driven story was much more compelling to me especially with Elenor to relate to. Coming back to it made me realize it really wasn’t as deep as I thought it was in middle school…
Monty, you ans the boys are spoiling us rotten recently. I wish I could support you more than just watching and sharing but please keep it up, I love these SO much
Always a great day when there's a new lore dump!
Another great episode. Montys voices are improving, hope he gets to do more.
Nice to have Neil back for this one. What a funny lad
I think a cool idea for a different setting for Bioshock 2 would be a city underground. Maybe during the abolition of slavery in the US and the underground railroad, or maybe in a war torn country in the east. Where essentially Sophia Lamb (or a stand in for her character) convinces the abused masses to travel further and further underground and create a "paradise" for themselves in a city far beneath the surface. A paradise fueled completely by collectivism, to the point where everyone lives SO much for the collective, that people forget how to live for themselves at ALL. Eventually leading to their downfall, or the Lamb stand in bringing them down with her. Almost like a Jonestown type of concept
Awesome episode, boys!!
To me, the annoying disconnect between killing vs sparing people and the selfish vs collectivist Eleanor could have been fixed with one simple tweak.
Have the spare option result in a benefit to the collective good.
Then, it becomes a choice between being driven by selfish desires (vengeance) versus subsuming your own beliefs to further the collective.
A great example would be if you could spare Alexander the Great/Gil by putting some kind of experimental morality guardrail on him and transmitting the "AI" mindhive to the surface. Sparing him would give a great tool to help mankind, and you could even illustrate it with a voice on the radio giving examples of ways it could help eradicate poverty, famine, etc.
Then, the choice wouldn't even be about revenge. It would be about honoring the will of the individual (Gil Alexander's old consciousness wanting to be put down) versus surrendering the individual's desires in favor of the collective.
You'd have one voice sobbing for you to kill him while another tells you that sparing him would tremendously help millions of suffering people. I'm actually imagining a scenario where your experimental program shuts down Alex the Great and recovers Gil, but if you finish running the program will essentially turn this horrific shamble of a man into a slave. Then you end up with this really striking and chilling audio of one voice excitedly and analytically going over all of the vast benefits for humanity while another voice is ugly weeping and begging you to end his suffering.
THAT, to me, would be a far more satisfying moral dilemma and would lead to a much more logical shaping of Eleanor's selfish versus collectivist ideology.
huh. I always thought it was at least strongly implied that Johnny Topside was also Eleanor's biological father -- whether by Sofia engaging in gene-tinkering or the old-fashioned way, as unlikely as the latter might sound -- and that that was part of why they were able to successfully bond specifically Delta to Eleanor, on the way to figuring out how to generalize the process. Am I just misremembering?
It was an abandoned plot idea, present in earlier versions but dropped at some point.
Gill says "Put me out of my misery.", immediately followed by "The thing in that container isn't me."
Seems like the job is already done, No? Gill Alexander is dead before you ever got there, According to Gill Alexander.
That's my view on it, anyway.
I can totally understand going "Alex the Great is a murderous psycho monster, kill it.", but Gill's opinion on the matter is irrelevant at that point.
Teaming up to reach a common goal, is not only found in collectivism. Even in objective capitalism, unrestrained, people still work together towards a common goal. Collectivism is specifically exulting the collective over the individual. And the good ending of BioShock two doesn’t really install the virtues of a collectivist ideology. The ending is simply whether or not Eleanor embodies, ethics and morals Towards human life.
A little off topic, but you guys should lore dump every sqaure enix property, also can't wait for the new kh lore dump probably 2025
Finally! Hell yeah!
Just startet to do a rewatch of the Red Dead episodes.... Perfect timing. More Lore Dump for me
shout-out to the glorious patreon at 8:58
I'm pretty sure that madervas den DLC takes place at the same time as Delta's story I think. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that it takes place either at the same time as BioShock 2's Main Story or a tiny bit after the main story of Bioshock 2.
Thanks for the early holiday gift Lore Bois and Thems! Loved this video, you lot always make me chortle.
I agree with y’all that the philosophical messages are much messier in 2 than 1, which unfortunately ruins the story a bit for me. It just doesn’t feel cohesive. Still very entertaining to hear you talk about it though!!
I don’t know if you guys seen it there’s a artwork/cutscene of a different opening of delta aka Johnny topside finding rapture he got attacked by the drones and the boat or submarine he was in blows up he tried to escape but we see him wounded and get caught
Also I don’t know if you guys know but there was another ending we’re it’s the neutral and delta lives
BioShock 2!! Finally :D
So while I’m near the beginning to make sure I understand this, is collectivism like humans becoming as hivemind like as possible?
Best channel on RUclips 😀😀😀
I think this has the same issue as Halo 2. It has all the ideas for its themes, but it doesn't present them directly enough to be obvious. You kinda have to analyze what you're shown to get the morals out of it. If you don't, then it's just a fairly decent shooter with an okay son and daughter story and undertones that you would just see as world building.
1:23:55 What about the cult of Dionysius?(Thank you Overly Sarcastic Productions)
W video, I love this bio shock
The problem is doing your own utopia with collectivism it’s gonna be hard not to make it look like the Soviet union
Dude you gotta do Far cry 3 next. I think you'll get some good laughs from Hurk which you guys will probably love
I'm so fucking hereeeeeeee 😭😭 Bioshock 2 ended up being my fav in the series. I ended up playing them all this year n finally getting thru em. 😭 Can't wait to see how my bois handle this one 🔥🔥
Does Chase identify as non-binary? I noticed the increased use of "they" as opposed to "he," like in past episodes.
Yes I do! I have a preference for they/them but am also not really bothered by any other ones so call me what ya like :D
41:30 Marx doesn't get credit for being a style icon. Probably because he wasn't :)
Does anyone else think Monty is keeping Neil and Chase locked in his basement? The morale is a bit dour and cynical.
i was looking forward to hearing about these games from you guys and looking forward to when you guys do infinte and also neil does red dead revolver that was promised and you guys might have forgotten about love your work and enjoy every minutes of it thank you for the half a year i had with your work i joined you when i came across the Kingdom Hearts lore dump and binged everything else 😄
While I do like the way they extrapolated out from the adam hallucinations in the first game to sophia lamb's goals in this one, the fact that big daddies and little sisters do literally have their identities stripped away in service of rapture as a whole, but in the game about collectivism you play as one the one unique largely independant big daddy, rescuing the one unique little sister, frustrates me so much.
Also can I just say how much I appreciate Neil making a point to talk about Jim Jones targetting black people because he knew society would allow him to exploit them, and recognising what happened in Jonestown as mass murder. The myths that he was anti-racist, and that his followers willingly "drank the kool aid", are still so widespread and pervasive, it's always refreshing when people acknoledge the actual facts.
Personally, I'm okay with Bioshock 2 taking place in Rapture. I think it contributes to real-world parallels about trying to build "utopia" from the ashes of a capitalist society.
LETS GOOOOOOO
Heading to work listening to my monthly dump. I hope there are Pitate facts 😂😂😂
Wow already 1k+ views. 🎉
DEF agree with you wrt BioShock 2's handling of the central philosophy is a tad shaky. 1 is certainly a lot more solid and cohesive. Helps that the city was MADE around that ideology. Whereas BioShock 2 had to scrounge around Rapture's remain to find a new ideological hook to explore.
Bad Eleanor is boring, she's cartoonishly evil. I like the good ending, it's interesting that while it's happy, it's also sad because Eleanor loses delta
Ahhh BS2 the unfairly maligned sequel that is arguably better than the original in many ways. Certainly not as philosophically sound but in terms of gameplay absolutely. Looking forward to giving this a listen, thanks for keeping me entertained during my second bout with covid loredump gang.
Sweater Daddy
Tin Daddy
Sky Daddy
Bioshock 2 kinda blows ass in my opinion but I know people love it nowadays, for whatever reason
hi i'm people i believe bioshock 2 is the best game followed by infinite then bioshock 1
the main reason this is built on the bones of rapture is one it gives lamb access to a population that's already weakened by a failed philosophy the very fact that ryans attempt failed made them more susceptible to her schemes and promises and two i'd argue it is a comparison of the two philosophies you're literally seeing them compared in every environment you go to lamb and her followers have plastered her views and face all over the previous objectivist propaganda your seeing places and enemies you already know reshaped to this new philosophy and seeing how it changes them (a side note for chase when playing the game lamb feels much more present in the beginning hours imo even more so then ryan as she's constantly on the speakers quoting her book you're also constantly seeing her face on the walls with quotes giving you insight to her doctrine and finding audio logs with her going into detail about her views)
edit: the sciance of rapture i.e the ADAM and what not isn't objectivist or subjectivist its how you the individual uses it that becomes one or the other having both philosophies use it is an interesting way of showing its a tool it doesn't have a side you do
Oooooh it's about cuLts ......
Kinda disappointing to see the guys immediately jumping to "this isn't a critique of socialism." It very much is. That's the kind of society she was trying to create.
Just at the beginning of the video though, so let's see where this goes
Edit: yeah. I agree that it would be more impacting to see the collectivist ideology fail were it not based upon the ruin of another failed experiment. It wouldn't muddy the whole thing by being able to scapegoat Ryan for Lamb's failures