Hey if Ken does that again could you gently remind him he owes me 20 bucks still? Thanks homie (This silly comment was just to leave a comment for the glorious algorithm lmao)
Just two quick notes: 1) The cat thing I'm almost completely sure is a reference to this essay Ayn Rand did about how cats are objectively bad because she doesn't personally like them? Which, kinda proves everything wrong with Objectivism there. 2) A load of Chase's confusion about the Little Sisters can be easily explained by one thing: they're not perpetual ADAM factories. They produce a whole lot of it, but the slug in them needs to have some kind of steady supply of ADAM to replicate it, which is the reason they need to gather ADAM from corpses. It's not that the splicers found and killed them that inspired the creation of Fontaine's Big Daddies, it's that they literally could not be kept inside in a meat locker or in a vegetative state, so they needed some form of protection.
Every time I learn something new about Ayn Rand or Objectivism I just think more and more how anyone that subscribes to her ideology at all HAS to be a complete moron
@@KotaIsBored Right, meant to edit that - IIRC the letters in question were about how because she liked cats they had an objective value, which is still ridiculous personally. I still think that's what Bioshock is satirising, just coming from the other direction.
I like the fact that Chase didn't immediately realize who Jack was, he's so good at predicting things and him not catching that bathyspheres only work with Ryan's DNA. I thought when he heard that, he would've started to do his thing and predict what's going on. Loved the episode and Bioshock is a great game!
Theorycraft for Bee hands: perhaps it was made as an additional means for running the arboretum cause yknow pollinating is a good thing for ecosystem however control is big theme so no free bee. Only plasmid bee. Don't ask about crows, they will be made known in good time.
@@Whiteythereaperthere’s such a thing as levels of ideological possession. A republican could be anything from Lincoln to Reagan and a Democrat could be anything from Jefferson to Davis. Politics, philosophy, and reality are related but individual things.
Loving this deep dive into Bioshock! Something to remember (in regards to the discussion of "Why would Ryan arm the entire city with superpowers to fight with?") is that a lot of them weren't originally meant to be weapons at all. Electro Bolt was marketed as for electricians and for people to power devices around their home, Insect Swarm was made to help the workers in Arcadia and the Apiary with pollination for the plants, etc. These powers being weaponized is the logical conclusion after everything goes to hell, but I think a majority of them started as just tools to make people better or more qualified for their jobs than those who didn't shell out for them. Your example of Telekinesis that you gave in your retrospective is spot on - would you hire the dock worker who can lift a heavy crate, or a guy who move twice as much with his mind alone.
The showdown with Andrew Ryan and the scene that follows were performed and presented VERY well, Monty. Might just be your finest moment on Lore Dump!!
I don't know if this is a spoiler:I want to add something that you didn't mention about the Little Sister's. Maybe by mistake... The little sisters were initially used to create more ADAM, which is a certainty. The problem was that the demand for ADAM was so high that eventually, even with the little sisters, not enough ADAM existed to answer demand. So Fontaine decided: we are just going to recycle old ADAM from Dead Splicers. The little sisters were conditioned to find dead bodies with ADAM, extract it and bring it back to Fontaine or feed the Big Daddies or themselves when they needed to. So that is why the little sisters roamed around the city. Fontaine approved of it because it brought more ADAM to sell. Because they didn't understand that ADAM can transfer memories as well, this recycled ADAM probably contributed to the madness of the Splicers. It's likely that it was driving them mad. This theory explains why the pure ADAM lasted so long without noticeable side effects at the beginning. As soon as they started to use that recycled ADAM, it was like tranfersing an STD to an adict.
The "Atlas, Ryan, Atlas, Ryan..." impression at the start of the Sander Cohen section was on point! Bill Mcdonagh's impression on the other hand ...😅 Can't wait for you to cover the next two games!
When people say "Bunny mask" now, I can't help but think of Fear and Hunger. Because that's what Rapture needed, Marriages. And for those who don't know what Fear and Hunger is: If you're gonna look it up, be aware, Trigger warning: Basically everything.
By the time noobus leaves, she has heard about ayn rand, the time period of the game, the protagonist stops talking immediately, rapture is underwater and lost a little faith in humanity because of prageru
Also I absolutely understand for whatever reason that this wouldn't work out, but I would LIVE for the Noobus to come on for the rest of the bioshock series, loved even the small moments of her reacting from both a political and scientific ethics standpoint to the game
1:05:20 I don't know if there's much evidence for Tenenbaum using any ADAM or plasmids. The reason Tenenbaum looks a little off is a more technical one: the studio really didn't have a lot of resources, time, or technology to make a lot of convincing human models. They can make deformed splicers well enough... But making regular people is tougher. That's why the only regular looking person we see up close is Andrew Ryan cuz that is all they could do. Everyone else's face is obfuscated in some way. When we see Atlas (before the submarine blows up), we see him from afar. The game just uses a splicer model for him, with different clothing. We see Tenenbaum from a distance (in this scene) or we kinda see her silhouette (later, when we talk to her in that little sister hideout). By the time BioShock 2 rolled around, they could do naturalistic faces better. That's why we see a lot more human characters up close, and little sisters look more like cute human children, and not strange goblins lol. [Mild Spoilers for BioShock 2] . . . When we see Tenenbaum in BioShock 2, we see that she looks perfectly normal, just a little aged (like maybe she's in her 40s, early 50s)
Agreed, it's never mentioned in either the games or book, plus she's probably better aware than most about their consequences. Neither did Suchong use them IIRC. Plus both were well protected from the civil war as they were valuable assets, so didn't need to indulge in plasmids to get by. Kind of like how doctors are always protected in an apocalypse. It pays to look after the person who knows things no one else does
I genuinely LOVE the ending to BioShock 1. So what if it is a tad Hallmark... I just like that in the end, aomething GOOD came out of all the misery of Rapture. And imo, Burial at Sea helps to only enhance this ending. Yeah, i know about all your issues with that, and some retcons are a lil headscratchy. But idk. I kinda dig what they did a little. It works at an emotional level, even if it doesn't all quite cohere at a logical level lol
Andrew Ryan, "I want a world with Free TRADE unhindered by BIG GOVERNMENT or FAITH!" Smuggling industry begins to import Bibles and other goods not made in the settlement, "NO! NOT THAT!" God Ryan is such a piss baby XD.
I've played BioShock once, in like 2009, and it's always been a game I "respect" more than I actually "like". But THIS was a really engaging listen, and I think I might check out that book you kept mentioning! And I haven't bought a video game book since they stopped making Myst novels in the 90s 😂
Rapture is a good read, definitely adds depth (no pun intended) to Bioshock and the overall story. A series of videogame novels I'd suggest checking out if you haven't already would be S. D. Perry's Resident Evil novelisations. They cover every mainline game from the original PS1 RE1 up til the original GameCube release of RE0, with 2 original stories set between games. The only issue with the series is that, because she was writing each book as their respective game was in active development, she wasn't given a completely finalized version of the stories to adapt, which leads to inconsistencies in the timeline regarding certain characters locations (for example, the novelisation of RE2 opens with Jill Valentine about to leave Raccoon City to head to Europe with Chris Redfield and Barry Burton, but 2 books later in the novelisation of RE3, that's retconned to Jill choosing to stay behind to finish off her investigation into the local Umbrella offices before leaving). Other than that single issue, tho, they're really good adaptations that add some proper personalities to all of the characters, hero and villain alike, fleshing them out beyond the archetypes the games portray them as.
My read of Ryan’s death is he’s trying to break Jacks conditioning. Not realizing that Jack probably also wanted to kill him regardless of being forced to
I hate that I have something in common with Andrew Ryan, in that we both love classic Broadway musicals. Both of us would sing along to “Anything Goes” and that idea makes me want to bludgeon someone with a golf club. Anyhow! Great video! More than happy to hear about y’all’s personal politics a bit, as it scratches my “tell Ayn Rand to kick rocks” itch quite nicely, lol.
God I can't wait for the Bioshock 2 and Infinite videos. I've been replaying the Bioshock trilogy recently, and I really can't wait to hear the others' reactions to 2's plot!
First off, congratulations. Secondly, I kinda hope that noobus will become a part of the group. Cause honesty I love how all of you just blend perfectly. Still, Monty and noobus, have a amazing life together.
So to answer one of your guy's questions (I believe Chase), the little sisters actually harvest Adam from dead splicers and drink it to reuse it as a conservation technique basically. The little sisters do produce Adam, but recycling it from dead splicers is also part of their job! :) Thank you all so much, love your stuff. Hope Neil feels better!
So regarding Chase's point that the government has submarine technology that could detect rapture, technically not in 59 when rapture falls, but in 62, when USS scorpion is launched, it does actually have sensors, and would be patrolling the area where rapture is, and would probably have discovered it
That and the fact that there's a sodding great lighthouse sticking out of the ocean for over 10 years that you'd assume someone would notice sooner or later, it's not like it's anywhere near the kind of places you'd put a lighthouse after all
I actually think the Adam & Eve naming is pretty spot on. It's clearly marketing speak dreamed up by the creators to sell Adam, and this idea of, "creating a new world" for those who live in the new world of Rapture. But it doesn't fit, and hides the deeper problems and implications that Adam represents in the name of bigger profits. In essence, the Adam & Eve marketing is running on the same problems that tech bro marketing has run on for decades. From social media's lofty claims, the meta verse claiming to be able to uplift us out of poverty, all of it is just marketing masking bullshit for people to buy into.
I really hope that you cover Minerva's Den when you do BioShock 2. I imagine you will, cuz I remember you talking about it fondly in your BioShock 2 video.
I'm 40. I grew up on the ground floor with a LOT of Gamings most iconic franchises. BioShock, more than System Shock, grabbed me both in gameplay and world. Rapture captivates me in a way so few games ever have in all those decades. Its a game with a moral (specifically Ayn Rand is a vile cunt and her sychophantic disciples are all rushing to sit at her right side in Hell) that honestly makes you think.
Sander Cohen did splice some, as he fights as a houdini splicer when hostile. It probably wasn't much though based on his model looking like a normal human.
I think part of what causes Ryan to commit suicide is that, Jack is his son, and seeing him in person, seeing Jack's face, his own face, echoes back at him as the mindless tool of his enemy. I think that finally breaks him, I think he sees Jack as a final mockery by his enemies, a reflection of himself puppeted into a life others want, forcing their beliefs on his world in a new way he cannot stop. His only son, his perfect creation turned against him, a slave where he is a "man". Then I think the suicide is just his last act of rebellion, his way of giving Atlas the finger and saying, "you can make this thing, this son of mine, but you can't make me, you can't take what makes me ME, you can't own me"
Quick note: if you're saying Rapture is further North than it is South than it would be closer to the Arctic (like the Titanic), not Antarctica. Antarctica is the giant continent to the south. As a Canadian I always find it weird when people don't know the difference between the two.😂
I would like to point out that the reason why Tenenbaum was so interested in doing what she did before and during Rapture's 'golden age', was because she is diagnosed with High-Functioning Autism.
A little correction, as far as I know according to the games Fontaine never created any Big Daddies, Suchong got the idea for the protectors because during the civil war just they weren't able to keep up with demand just with the adam produced by the sisters, so he thought of sending them out to recycle adam from corpses, hence the need for the protectors. This is mentioned in an audio diary at point prometheus. Just cause in Bioshock 2 the Daddies were being made at the Fontaine Futuristics building doesn't mean Fontaine was producing them, by that time Ryan had already taken over his companies; in fact you can see through the visual storytelling in a room blocked by ice that Point Prometheus used to belong to Fontaine as well. So at least in the game's the timeline it doesn't match up for Fontaine to have started the protectors program, since it was started during and because of the civil war, but maybe it's a thing in the book. Correct me if that's the case cause I haven't really read it.
I also don't think there's anywhere in the game that mentions Fontaine exclusively making tonics and Ryan being the one who actually makes the plasmid/super power stuff, the current ones are sold by Ryan but that's mostly cause he took over Fontaine's business. Suchong was definetly still working for Fontaine when creating Enrage and Telekinesis according to audio logs. And Cohen definetly took a lot of plasmids and stuff, his model and specially the in concept art, he looks pretty fucked. And I mean when he fights you he shoots fire at you, he's a hoodini splicer. Not familiar with Tenembaum taking any plasmids or adam herself, wouldn't make sense for the character but I might've missed that. Her model just looks like a basic splicer cause of the budget of the game. Sorry for being kinda pedantic over all of that.
Congrats to Chase for becoming a real RUclipsr, and I appreciate no one pointing out that antarctica is south. Fantastic ep. Love Bioshock. Can't wait for more!
Also, on how did they know about the Little Sisters: I think the public becomes aware of the Little Sisters through a combination of advertising, ie, "We're your ONLY source for Adam" leading splicers to attempt break ins and other crominal activity to gain access to more stores; Fontaine using Little Sisters as a marketinf ploy to show how he'd find use for some of these orphans, and lastly just the small size of Rapture. Like remember, Rapture might look big, but its still a pretty small space overall, and with a pretty small community to boot. Ryan only brought in select members of the surface society and it only survived long enough to BARELY squeak out the 1st native generation and even that was small. Add to that that there's not really any places you could run off and hide at like another town or go off & join the circus, then it's going to be a lot harder to hide a place full of local kids that are being experimented on.
This is one of my favorite episodes yet, folks. A few interesting thoughts. Chase asks why do folks go to Steinman after he goes crazy and is cutting folks up. Here's my guess: he already mentioned that he considers beauty to be a moral imperative now that ADAM is in the picture. Not only that, but he believes Aphrodite has charged him to do something about symmetry. So my read is that he had begun kidnapping people so that he can perform his mutilating surgeries. Real grim stuff. Also, gotta give Monty some credit on the voices. Even if they're not the pitch-perfect pulls that a certain dead Lore Dump resident could do (RIP), they do a great job of evoking the characters. That initial "I'm Andrew Ryan" over the radio during the bathysphere descent absolutely took me back in an instant. Finally, a quick note about objectivist art, because I think it's fun. Again, the core root of Randian objectivism is that super-geniuses and exemplars need to strut their stuff. It's easy to think about objectivism solely as it relates to industry, because that's how awful people like Elon Musk and Rand Paul who don't actually understand objectivism end up co-opting it as their bible. But the main thrust is that some people are special, and the most important thing is for them to be able to express their gifted insight. Again, you can see why terrible rich and powerful people tend to love Ayn Rand. It's all about putting them on a pedestal, patting them on the head, telling them how special they are, and telling the base masses to accept the bad things they might do because we need to unleash and bask in their brilliance without holding them back. If they fail, it's only because society wouldn't let them be great. Ok, getting distracted. Anyways, in terms of art, it's about getting geniuses to express their interpretation of things. As Monty mentioned, a photograph of an apple is useless. It's no different from looking at an apple. But a piece of art like a painting means that the artist is giving their interpretation of "apple", colored by their impressions and expressions. THAT is grand because you get an expression of a brilliant mind and a window into their special brain. Again, Rand is awful but I do think it's interesting. Plus, I think the idea that Andrew Ryan likes classic Broadway shows and Cohen is just him justifying campy shit that he personally likes lol. He sees Cohen as being a true artist that writes from the soul, and since Ryan likes campy crap he thinks that Cohen is the perfect poet. But it's quickly revealed that, upon being exposed to a new world with zero limits on creativity, his music was always just stale and bland and uninspired. In a world of zero limits, he doesn't change a thing. He was never a creative genius at all. When given a chance to think outside the box, he kept firmly in the box he started in. He was never constrained by the censor. He just didn't have anything to say that was worth censoring. It wasn't until he snapped that you actually get creativity, which of course is horrifying and twisted, which again is an example that tapping into the spirits of geniuses and allowing them to create without morals or limits (objectivism) is a horrible idea with awful consequences.
Hey Monty. I remember while listening to one of your episodes you mentioned Game of Thrones. Would you ever do a lore dump of each season? I have been trying to get into this damn show for years, and every time I rewatch the first few episodes I get bored. I just never understood why people like this show. Love the content you guys do. Thanks so much.
Got inspired from this to read Rapture and it answered a question that bothered me about the limited resources of the slugs. They could breed them, but not at the scale that was demanded by the splicers. During the raid on Fontaine Futuristics, most of the slugs were destroyed in the fighting. This prompted letting the little sisters harvest it from corpses. It wasn't about sustainability, but ensuring production at scale.
Also, Fontaine probably just used The original Big Daddies because they were already made and didn't require more R&D. It did what he needed them to do, defend the Sisters with violence, without much change. Matches history, look at how most medieval weapons are just modified versions of farm tools. Like, flails are just wheat threshing tools and a trident is just a pitchfork.
3:06:00 ish Jack doesn't graft himself into a diving suit. That would require a long surgery. He just puts a suit on, and his genetics aren't rewritten to Big Daddy stuff. He just sprayed himself with pheremones. He doesn't need to give off the pheremones forever, just long enough to get through the Proving Grounds. The only irreversible change he made was replacing his voice box with the Big Daddy voicebox. If he had been permanently put in the suit, then he'd still be wearing it in the ending
Really missed Neil this episode 😔 Wishing him a speedy recovery and good health. But even with him MIA; Monty, Chase, and (temporarily) The Noobus, still absolutely killed it and produced some wonderful content. Thanks for doing what you do lore dump crew :)
1:10:51 monty I felt the same thing then I found a magic injection that helped me regrow my hair, But I’m not sure how the noobus would react to you starting estrogen
"Mr. Bubbles! Look! It's an Angel! I can see light coming from his belly. Wait.. this one's still breathing. That's alright. I know he'll be an Angel soon.." -The most terrifying little girl in a game aside from Alma
I will have you know, that when I found out you guys were Dumping Bioshock, I finally bit the bullet and bought the remastered collection so that I could watch Monty's critique and be ready for this episode (Absolutely loved having the Noobus on board for this one!). First off, It was so worth it. I loved the atmosphere, the gameplay loop is addictive and the storytelling/worldbuilding is fantastic. Between the critique and this video I gained so much lore that I missed during my playthroughs and really appreciate the critique on Ayn Rand's Objectivism. I really wish I had played the game years ago, before I knew the big twist and played games that improved the gameplay loop (like Bethesda's Fallout series and Borderlands) but sometimes you've just got to go back. *Spoiler Paragraph* I think, a big part of why the last third loses me is how it doesn't offer an emotional progression past the twist. I still feel like the slave that Ryan says I am, especially as Tenenbaum becomes the voice in my head telling me to disfigure myself (even Fontaine says we're nothing without someone telling us what to do, at that point). After we break the control, I still feel like someone's dog... and maybe that's the point? Saying that if we can't break the chains permanently tattoed on our skin and soul, our work can break the chains for the next generation? That final image of the girls holding our hands is powerful but, that decision being made at the start of the game, and before the revelation, I still struggle to feel like I ever chose. All that to say, I'm excited to play Bioshock 2 and Infinite, and watch Monty's Critiques, and super grateful ya'll brought this series into my life!
2:11:30 I don't think that Ryan knew about the pregnancy until well after the embryo was removed from Jasmine Jolene and purchased by Fontaine. Fontaine bugged her rooms and found out about the pregnany when she spoke to a friend about it
Just found this channel today during work and already love it! Just finished this episode and infinites episode and work by went smoothly. Even though I’ve beat these games I love listening to lore or cool facts I had no idea about! Keep up the great work guys!
48:24 not sure if this has been said but there is a thematic reason its called ADAM at least from my perspective. Adam and Eve were the first creations of god in biblical lore, and ADAM and EVE the substances are the first creations that let Rapturian scientists PLAY god by freely altering genetics. Just my reading of the game. 1:11:18 also small note this isnt the effect of enrage although the audio diary is kinda misleading. Enrage is a polyp plasmid that you can throw at enemies to make them enraged and attack other enemies.
"When [Infinite] released everyone loved it." Everyone. Except for me haha 🤣 I was not about this game when it came out and boy do I feel vindicated now that with time everyones come around to my side! I do have a respect for parts of Infinite because of Monty's analysis video on it but by far and away the final nail in the Bioshock coffin for me. Intrigued to see how Neil and Chase feel about it but they don't have to play it and I'm sure Monty will give it a nice sugar coating. But we've got a ways to go to find out!
In the bad ending, it's not that Rapture has nukes, it's that the splicers hijacked a nuclear submarine. Or am I remembering wrong? Otherwise, great job!
How do you guys not have more subscribers! Blown away by the content I’ve been binging over the past few days! Can’t wait to explore moire lore dumps! Would love to see you do Devil May Cry or Assassins creed next but looking forward to Yakuza as I’ve never touched those games
Not heard it before but Montys mic seems to have this bassy droning thing going on which I have not heard before and is not in anyone else's mic ever i think
You got something wrong when explaining the little sisters... When it was discovered the slugs were a rare commodity Fontaine, Suchong and Tenenbaum created little sisters to get more, yes BUT they also gave them the ability to drain the adam from corpses. People hooked on adam would go mad and eventually would die (either through madness induced struggles or simply from accidents or natural causes)...at which point all that Adam would go to waste... which would be a waste considdering the scarcity of the "product". So the sisters were ALSO given a way to extract dormant Adam from corpses as a sort of waste recycling. Eventually people caught on this was what little sisters were capable of so they started targetting little sisters (who, at that point, had no protection) and so Adam was lost to fontain... who responded with making Big Daddies to protect his "investment". That's also why Daddies had to be linked to little sisters because when just using automatons/robots they couldn't get the big daddies to prioritise protection of the little sisters over self-preservation... but who would protect a little girl over anything else? Her father ofc.... daddy would rather die than see anything happen to "his little girl" You might have missed this but it was explained in the mini-sode online/ARG (IIRC it was called "There's something in the sea") that preceeded the release of Bioshock 2
Quick thing to note: since recording this video myself and Noobus got married. Hurry! 🎉🎉❤
Congratulations Mr Noobus 🎉🎉
They grow up so fast😢 😂 congratulations you two!
I meant to write “hurray” but I might still be drunk
Ayyyy congratulations to y'all!! Wishing you guys nothing but the best. Much love
Congratulations my friend ❤️
When Chase said “The only character I like is Atlas” Ken Levine appeared next to me rubbing his hands together saying “yeeees, yeeeeesssss”.
Hey if Ken does that again could you gently remind him he owes me 20 bucks still? Thanks homie
(This silly comment was just to leave a comment for the glorious algorithm lmao)
Monty gaslighting his friend till the twist is amazing
Monty, doesn't matter if you can't do accents, this has been your best voice acting work I've heard (other than maybe Barry Wheela)
Just two quick notes:
1) The cat thing I'm almost completely sure is a reference to this essay Ayn Rand did about how cats are objectively bad because she doesn't personally like them? Which, kinda proves everything wrong with Objectivism there.
2) A load of Chase's confusion about the Little Sisters can be easily explained by one thing: they're not perpetual ADAM factories. They produce a whole lot of it, but the slug in them needs to have some kind of steady supply of ADAM to replicate it, which is the reason they need to gather ADAM from corpses. It's not that the splicers found and killed them that inspired the creation of Fontaine's Big Daddies, it's that they literally could not be kept inside in a meat locker or in a vegetative state, so they needed some form of protection.
Every time I learn something new about Ayn Rand or Objectivism I just think more and more how anyone that subscribes to her ideology at all HAS to be a complete moron
10/10 corrections - thank you for this!
Ayn Rand liked cats. She subscribed to Cat Fancy magazine and even wrote letters to the editor.
@@KotaIsBored Right, meant to edit that - IIRC the letters in question were about how because she liked cats they had an objective value, which is still ridiculous personally. I still think that's what Bioshock is satirising, just coming from the other direction.
I like the fact that Chase didn't immediately realize who Jack was, he's so good at predicting things and him not catching that bathyspheres only work with Ryan's DNA. I thought when he heard that, he would've started to do his thing and predict what's going on. Loved the episode and Bioshock is a great game!
I was definitely expecting him to pick up on that! But he did what a lot of us end up doing, just went with it and got surprised later.
Someone needs to mod BioShock 1 so it plays Sebastian's "Under the Sea" upon our entry into the lighthouse.
"I would rather die than enter an orb" is yet another banger in the list of Chase hot takes
Theorycraft for Bee hands: perhaps it was made as an additional means for running the arboretum cause yknow pollinating is a good thing for ecosystem however control is big theme so no free bee. Only plasmid bee.
Don't ask about crows, they will be made known in good time.
The Bioshock: Rapture novel is soooo underappreciated! Didn't help that Infinite's Burial at Sea ignores a bunch of it and retcons sections.
"AYN RAND DIED WHILE ON WELFARE" for two minutes straight on my screen...pure art
Funny thing is she was on welfare since she got to america. Woman never worked a day in her life.
She wasn't though. She was on Social Security. Still a hypocrisy, but accuracy is important.
@@theevilgood Social Security is a welfare program...
@@theevilgoodsame difference, still money received from other people's taxes
@@Whiteythereaperthere’s such a thing as levels of ideological possession. A republican could be anything from Lincoln to Reagan and a Democrat could be anything from Jefferson to Davis. Politics, philosophy, and reality are related but individual things.
Loving this deep dive into Bioshock! Something to remember (in regards to the discussion of "Why would Ryan arm the entire city with superpowers to fight with?") is that a lot of them weren't originally meant to be weapons at all. Electro Bolt was marketed as for electricians and for people to power devices around their home, Insect Swarm was made to help the workers in Arcadia and the Apiary with pollination for the plants, etc. These powers being weaponized is the logical conclusion after everything goes to hell, but I think a majority of them started as just tools to make people better or more qualified for their jobs than those who didn't shell out for them. Your example of Telekinesis that you gave in your retrospective is spot on - would you hire the dock worker who can lift a heavy crate, or a guy who move twice as much with his mind alone.
The showdown with Andrew Ryan and the scene that follows were performed and presented VERY well, Monty. Might just be your finest moment on Lore Dump!!
As an Irishman, your Atlas accent had me cracking up Monty!
I am so sorry
I don't know if this is a spoiler:I want to add something that you didn't mention about the Little Sister's. Maybe by mistake...
The little sisters were initially used to create more ADAM, which is a certainty.
The problem was that the demand for ADAM was so high that eventually, even with the little sisters, not enough ADAM existed to answer demand. So Fontaine decided: we are just going to recycle old ADAM from Dead Splicers.
The little sisters were conditioned to find dead bodies with ADAM, extract it and bring it back to Fontaine or feed the Big Daddies or themselves when they needed to.
So that is why the little sisters roamed around the city.
Fontaine approved of it because it brought more ADAM to sell.
Because they didn't understand that ADAM can transfer memories as well, this recycled ADAM probably contributed to the madness of the Splicers. It's likely that it was driving them mad.
This theory explains why the pure ADAM lasted so long without noticeable side effects at the beginning.
As soon as they started to use that recycled ADAM, it was like tranfersing an STD to an adict.
The "Atlas, Ryan, Atlas, Ryan..." impression at the start of the Sander Cohen section was on point!
Bill Mcdonagh's impression on the other hand ...😅
Can't wait for you to cover the next two games!
Rest In Peace Neil im sure chase will finish Red Dead for you 😢 🕊
When people say "Bunny mask" now, I can't help but think of Fear and Hunger.
Because that's what Rapture needed, Marriages.
And for those who don't know what Fear and Hunger is: If you're gonna look it up, be aware, Trigger warning: Basically everything.
By the time noobus leaves, she has heard about ayn rand, the time period of the game, the protagonist stops talking immediately, rapture is underwater and lost a little faith in humanity because of prageru
Aaaa😊À😊
Nazi scientists had 3 choices, Nuremberg, operation paperclip, or rapture
Also I absolutely understand for whatever reason that this wouldn't work out, but I would LIVE for the Noobus to come on for the rest of the bioshock series, loved even the small moments of her reacting from both a political and scientific ethics standpoint to the game
Chase - "So far, the only person I like down here is Atlas..."
Monty - (:
1:05:20 I don't know if there's much evidence for Tenenbaum using any ADAM or plasmids. The reason Tenenbaum looks a little off is a more technical one: the studio really didn't have a lot of resources, time, or technology to make a lot of convincing human models. They can make deformed splicers well enough... But making regular people is tougher.
That's why the only regular looking person we see up close is Andrew Ryan cuz that is all they could do. Everyone else's face is obfuscated in some way. When we see Atlas (before the submarine blows up), we see him from afar. The game just uses a splicer model for him, with different clothing.
We see Tenenbaum from a distance (in this scene) or we kinda see her silhouette (later, when we talk to her in that little sister hideout).
By the time BioShock 2 rolled around, they could do naturalistic faces better. That's why we see a lot more human characters up close, and little sisters look more like cute human children, and not strange goblins lol.
[Mild Spoilers for BioShock 2]
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When we see Tenenbaum in BioShock 2, we see that she looks perfectly normal, just a little aged (like maybe she's in her 40s, early 50s)
Agreed, it's never mentioned in either the games or book, plus she's probably better aware than most about their consequences. Neither did Suchong use them IIRC. Plus both were well protected from the civil war as they were valuable assets, so didn't need to indulge in plasmids to get by. Kind of like how doctors are always protected in an apocalypse. It pays to look after the person who knows things no one else does
I genuinely LOVE the ending to BioShock 1. So what if it is a tad Hallmark... I just like that in the end, aomething GOOD came out of all the misery of Rapture.
And imo, Burial at Sea helps to only enhance this ending.
Yeah, i know about all your issues with that, and some retcons are a lil headscratchy. But idk. I kinda dig what they did a little.
It works at an emotional level, even if it doesn't all quite cohere at a logical level lol
Would you kindly...rewatch the video over and over again till this hits one million views?
Andrew Ryan, "I want a world with Free TRADE unhindered by BIG GOVERNMENT or FAITH!"
Smuggling industry begins to import Bibles and other goods not made in the settlement,
"NO! NOT THAT!"
God Ryan is such a piss baby XD.
I've played BioShock once, in like 2009, and it's always been a game I "respect" more than I actually "like". But THIS was a really engaging listen, and I think I might check out that book you kept mentioning! And I haven't bought a video game book since they stopped making Myst novels in the 90s 😂
Rapture is a good read, definitely adds depth (no pun intended) to Bioshock and the overall story.
A series of videogame novels I'd suggest checking out if you haven't already would be S. D. Perry's Resident Evil novelisations. They cover every mainline game from the original PS1 RE1 up til the original GameCube release of RE0, with 2 original stories set between games. The only issue with the series is that, because she was writing each book as their respective game was in active development, she wasn't given a completely finalized version of the stories to adapt, which leads to inconsistencies in the timeline regarding certain characters locations (for example, the novelisation of RE2 opens with Jill Valentine about to leave Raccoon City to head to Europe with Chris Redfield and Barry Burton, but 2 books later in the novelisation of RE3, that's retconned to Jill choosing to stay behind to finish off her investigation into the local Umbrella offices before leaving).
Other than that single issue, tho, they're really good adaptations that add some proper personalities to all of the characters, hero and villain alike, fleshing them out beyond the archetypes the games portray them as.
Great lore dump as always, I just wish I could get Neil's take and reaction! Hope you feel better Neil, and keep up the good work Monty and Chase!
RIP Neil
LOL
poor guy got sick and they replaced him
#Friendship!
As I don't want to make any spoileriroos...
I will say that I 100% prefer Bioshock 2...
Gameplay, story and thematics.
The whole shebang.
“Hatch opens, hand up, fingers in: BEEEEES”
My read of Ryan’s death is he’s trying to break Jacks conditioning. Not realizing that Jack probably also wanted to kill him regardless of being forced to
I wonder if the Noobus Humanus will make random cameo appearances in later episodes...
Lmao I love that Chase's whole reaction to the "Would You Kindly" reveal can essentially be described as,
"Huh." in muppet noises XD.
I hate that I have something in common with Andrew Ryan, in that we both love classic Broadway musicals.
Both of us would sing along to “Anything Goes” and that idea makes me want to bludgeon someone with a golf club.
Anyhow! Great video! More than happy to hear about y’all’s personal politics a bit, as it scratches my “tell Ayn Rand to kick rocks” itch quite nicely, lol.
God I can't wait for the Bioshock 2 and Infinite videos. I've been replaying the Bioshock trilogy recently, and I really can't wait to hear the others' reactions to 2's plot!
First off, congratulations. Secondly, I kinda hope that noobus will become a part of the group. Cause honesty I love how all of you just blend perfectly. Still, Monty and noobus, have a amazing life together.
Rapture actually has a specific location, it is in between Greenland and Iceland.
So to answer one of your guy's questions (I believe Chase), the little sisters actually harvest Adam from dead splicers and drink it to reuse it as a conservation technique basically. The little sisters do produce Adam, but recycling it from dead splicers is also part of their job! :) Thank you all so much, love your stuff. Hope Neil feels better!
Chase rejecting Red dead gave Niel the lumbago, it'll be a slow and painful death my brothers
"Look, Mr. Bubbles, It's Bioshock-Story Explained."
So regarding Chase's point that the government has submarine technology that could detect rapture, technically not in 59 when rapture falls, but in 62, when USS scorpion is launched, it does actually have sensors, and would be patrolling the area where rapture is, and would probably have discovered it
That and the fact that there's a sodding great lighthouse sticking out of the ocean for over 10 years that you'd assume someone would notice sooner or later, it's not like it's anywhere near the kind of places you'd put a lighthouse after all
I actually think the Adam & Eve naming is pretty spot on. It's clearly marketing speak dreamed up by the creators to sell Adam, and this idea of, "creating a new world" for those who live in the new world of Rapture.
But it doesn't fit, and hides the deeper problems and implications that Adam represents in the name of bigger profits. In essence, the Adam & Eve marketing is running on the same problems that tech bro marketing has run on for decades. From social media's lofty claims, the meta verse claiming to be able to uplift us out of poverty, all of it is just marketing masking bullshit for people to buy into.
I really hope that you cover Minerva's Den when you do BioShock 2. I imagine you will, cuz I remember you talking about it fondly in your BioShock 2 video.
"suck egg" sounds like it can be translation joke, I don't know about other languages but in finnish word for egg can also mean dick. :D
Always smile when LoreDump drops and I hope the time dilation means Neil's back up and at 'em
Here's hoping Neil gets well soon, there's a chance that Chase might start having to explain Kingdom Hearts to Noobus
BioShock infinite was pretty well liked back in the day. A fantastic game but people remember it poorly because of the dlc
I'm 40. I grew up on the ground floor with a LOT of Gamings most iconic franchises. BioShock, more than System Shock, grabbed me both in gameplay and world. Rapture captivates me in a way so few games ever have in all those decades. Its a game with a moral (specifically Ayn Rand is a vile cunt and her sychophantic disciples are all rushing to sit at her right side in Hell) that honestly makes you think.
I'm certainly not addicted to lore dumps. Surely...
Sander Cohen did splice some, as he fights as a houdini splicer when hostile. It probably wasn't much though based on his model looking like a normal human.
the voices in this one are off the charts, amazing performances with the atlas reveal, ggs lads :)
I think part of what causes Ryan to commit suicide is that, Jack is his son, and seeing him in person, seeing Jack's face, his own face, echoes back at him as the mindless tool of his enemy. I think that finally breaks him, I think he sees Jack as a final mockery by his enemies, a reflection of himself puppeted into a life others want, forcing their beliefs on his world in a new way he cannot stop. His only son, his perfect creation turned against him, a slave where he is a "man".
Then I think the suicide is just his last act of rebellion, his way of giving Atlas the finger and saying, "you can make this thing, this son of mine, but you can't make me, you can't take what makes me ME, you can't own me"
Quick note: if you're saying Rapture is further North than it is South than it would be closer to the Arctic (like the Titanic), not Antarctica. Antarctica is the giant continent to the south. As a Canadian I always find it weird when people don't know the difference between the two.😂
I would like to point out that the reason why Tenenbaum was so interested in doing what she did before and during Rapture's 'golden age', was because she is diagnosed with High-Functioning Autism.
A little correction, as far as I know according to the games Fontaine never created any Big Daddies, Suchong got the idea for the protectors because during the civil war just they weren't able to keep up with demand just with the adam produced by the sisters, so he thought of sending them out to recycle adam from corpses, hence the need for the protectors. This is mentioned in an audio diary at point prometheus.
Just cause in Bioshock 2 the Daddies were being made at the Fontaine Futuristics building doesn't mean Fontaine was producing them, by that time Ryan had already taken over his companies; in fact you can see through the visual storytelling in a room blocked by ice that Point Prometheus used to belong to Fontaine as well.
So at least in the game's the timeline it doesn't match up for Fontaine to have started the protectors program, since it was started during and because of the civil war, but maybe it's a thing in the book. Correct me if that's the case cause I haven't really read it.
I also don't think there's anywhere in the game that mentions Fontaine exclusively making tonics and Ryan being the one who actually makes the plasmid/super power stuff, the current ones are sold by Ryan but that's mostly cause he took over Fontaine's business. Suchong was definetly still working for Fontaine when creating Enrage and Telekinesis according to audio logs.
And Cohen definetly took a lot of plasmids and stuff, his model and specially the in concept art, he looks pretty fucked. And I mean when he fights you he shoots fire at you, he's a hoodini splicer.
Not familiar with Tenembaum taking any plasmids or adam herself, wouldn't make sense for the character but I might've missed that. Her model just looks like a basic splicer cause of the budget of the game.
Sorry for being kinda pedantic over all of that.
Congrats to Chase for becoming a real RUclipsr, and I appreciate no one pointing out that antarctica is south.
Fantastic ep. Love Bioshock. Can't wait for more!
Also, on how did they know about the Little Sisters: I think the public becomes aware of the Little Sisters through a combination of advertising, ie, "We're your ONLY source for Adam" leading splicers to attempt break ins and other crominal activity to gain access to more stores; Fontaine using Little Sisters as a marketinf ploy to show how he'd find use for some of these orphans, and lastly just the small size of Rapture.
Like remember, Rapture might look big, but its still a pretty small space overall, and with a pretty small community to boot. Ryan only brought in select members of the surface society and it only survived long enough to BARELY squeak out the 1st native generation and even that was small. Add to that that there's not really any places you could run off and hide at like another town or go off & join the circus, then it's going to be a lot harder to hide a place full of local kids that are being experimented on.
This is one of my favorite episodes yet, folks.
A few interesting thoughts. Chase asks why do folks go to Steinman after he goes crazy and is cutting folks up. Here's my guess: he already mentioned that he considers beauty to be a moral imperative now that ADAM is in the picture. Not only that, but he believes Aphrodite has charged him to do something about symmetry. So my read is that he had begun kidnapping people so that he can perform his mutilating surgeries. Real grim stuff.
Also, gotta give Monty some credit on the voices. Even if they're not the pitch-perfect pulls that a certain dead Lore Dump resident could do (RIP), they do a great job of evoking the characters. That initial "I'm Andrew Ryan" over the radio during the bathysphere descent absolutely took me back in an instant.
Finally, a quick note about objectivist art, because I think it's fun. Again, the core root of Randian objectivism is that super-geniuses and exemplars need to strut their stuff. It's easy to think about objectivism solely as it relates to industry, because that's how awful people like Elon Musk and Rand Paul who don't actually understand objectivism end up co-opting it as their bible. But the main thrust is that some people are special, and the most important thing is for them to be able to express their gifted insight. Again, you can see why terrible rich and powerful people tend to love Ayn Rand. It's all about putting them on a pedestal, patting them on the head, telling them how special they are, and telling the base masses to accept the bad things they might do because we need to unleash and bask in their brilliance without holding them back. If they fail, it's only because society wouldn't let them be great.
Ok, getting distracted. Anyways, in terms of art, it's about getting geniuses to express their interpretation of things. As Monty mentioned, a photograph of an apple is useless. It's no different from looking at an apple. But a piece of art like a painting means that the artist is giving their interpretation of "apple", colored by their impressions and expressions. THAT is grand because you get an expression of a brilliant mind and a window into their special brain.
Again, Rand is awful but I do think it's interesting. Plus, I think the idea that Andrew Ryan likes classic Broadway shows and Cohen is just him justifying campy shit that he personally likes lol. He sees Cohen as being a true artist that writes from the soul, and since Ryan likes campy crap he thinks that Cohen is the perfect poet. But it's quickly revealed that, upon being exposed to a new world with zero limits on creativity, his music was always just stale and bland and uninspired. In a world of zero limits, he doesn't change a thing. He was never a creative genius at all. When given a chance to think outside the box, he kept firmly in the box he started in. He was never constrained by the censor. He just didn't have anything to say that was worth censoring.
It wasn't until he snapped that you actually get creativity, which of course is horrifying and twisted, which again is an example that tapping into the spirits of geniuses and allowing them to create without morals or limits (objectivism) is a horrible idea with awful consequences.
Hey Monty. I remember while listening to one of your episodes you mentioned Game of Thrones. Would you ever do a lore dump of each season? I have been trying to get into this damn show for years, and every time I rewatch the first few episodes I get bored. I just never understood why people like this show. Love the content you guys do. Thanks so much.
Hope noobus comes back for future episodes, her reactions are really fun
Since I'm that guy, Rapture is about halfway between Greenland and Iceland.
Got inspired from this to read Rapture and it answered a question that bothered me about the limited resources of the slugs. They could breed them, but not at the scale that was demanded by the splicers. During the raid on Fontaine Futuristics, most of the slugs were destroyed in the fighting. This prompted letting the little sisters harvest it from corpses. It wasn't about sustainability, but ensuring production at scale.
Also, Fontaine probably just used The original Big Daddies because they were already made and didn't require more R&D. It did what he needed them to do, defend the Sisters with violence, without much change. Matches history, look at how most medieval weapons are just modified versions of farm tools. Like, flails are just wheat threshing tools and a trident is just a pitchfork.
46:33 where the best character in the game comes in ;)
3:06:00 ish Jack doesn't graft himself into a diving suit. That would require a long surgery. He just puts a suit on, and his genetics aren't rewritten to Big Daddy stuff. He just sprayed himself with pheremones. He doesn't need to give off the pheremones forever, just long enough to get through the Proving Grounds. The only irreversible change he made was replacing his voice box with the Big Daddy voicebox. If he had been permanently put in the suit, then he'd still be wearing it in the ending
Really missed Neil this episode 😔 Wishing him a speedy recovery and good health. But even with him MIA; Monty, Chase, and (temporarily) The Noobus, still absolutely killed it and produced some wonderful content. Thanks for doing what you do lore dump crew :)
1:10:51 monty I felt the same thing then I found a magic injection that helped me regrow my hair, But I’m not sure how the noobus would react to you starting estrogen
35:32 to 36:12
I swear you can audibly hear Monty's :)))) attitude when answering Chase's questions lmao
Not me watching all the Bioshock videos on your main channel and then coming straight to this one for more 😌
"Mr. Bubbles! Look! It's an Angel! I can see light coming from his belly. Wait.. this one's still breathing. That's alright. I know he'll be an Angel soon.."
-The most terrifying little girl in a game aside from Alma
56:12 Steinman's voice actor also voiced Batman Arkham Knight's Professor Pyg who has similar sick ideas of beauty and perfection.
Where's our monthly dump. I need something to listen to during work.
Red Dead 1 will be up for Patrons in the next day!
Dude! Bioshock Hype!
1:49:41 why am i feeling some of this was from the Lorax
Im Julie Lanford! And I speak for the trees!
I will have you know, that when I found out you guys were Dumping Bioshock, I finally bit the bullet and bought the remastered collection so that I could watch Monty's critique and be ready for this episode (Absolutely loved having the Noobus on board for this one!). First off, It was so worth it. I loved the atmosphere, the gameplay loop is addictive and the storytelling/worldbuilding is fantastic. Between the critique and this video I gained so much lore that I missed during my playthroughs and really appreciate the critique on Ayn Rand's Objectivism. I really wish I had played the game years ago, before I knew the big twist and played games that improved the gameplay loop (like Bethesda's Fallout series and Borderlands) but sometimes you've just got to go back.
*Spoiler Paragraph*
I think, a big part of why the last third loses me is how it doesn't offer an emotional progression past the twist. I still feel like the slave that Ryan says I am, especially as Tenenbaum becomes the voice in my head telling me to disfigure myself (even Fontaine says we're nothing without someone telling us what to do, at that point). After we break the control, I still feel like someone's dog... and maybe that's the point? Saying that if we can't break the chains permanently tattoed on our skin and soul, our work can break the chains for the next generation? That final image of the girls holding our hands is powerful but, that decision being made at the start of the game, and before the revelation, I still struggle to feel like I ever chose.
All that to say, I'm excited to play Bioshock 2 and Infinite, and watch Monty's Critiques, and super grateful ya'll brought this series into my life!
2:11:30 I don't think that Ryan knew about the pregnancy until well after the embryo was removed from Jasmine Jolene and purchased by Fontaine. Fontaine bugged her rooms and found out about the pregnany when she spoke to a friend about it
side note, I'm all for a bonus video of just the "noobus recap".
Just found this channel today during work and already love it! Just finished this episode and infinites episode and work by went smoothly. Even though I’ve beat these games I love listening to lore or cool facts I had no idea about! Keep up the great work guys!
Talking about the bee shooting ability... i wonder if (outside of game logic) they would have tried to make one where you produce the slugs. XD
Bioshock Lore Dump with the Noobus Humanus, lets freakin go!
1:10:48 Same here, Monty, same here🥲
Really enjoy Monty's mid-atlantic accent gotta say
48:24 not sure if this has been said but there is a thematic reason its called ADAM at least from my perspective. Adam and Eve were the first creations of god in biblical lore, and ADAM and EVE the substances are the first creations that let Rapturian scientists PLAY god by freely altering genetics. Just my reading of the game.
1:11:18 also small note this isnt the effect of enrage although the audio diary is kinda misleading. Enrage is a polyp plasmid that you can throw at enemies to make them enraged and attack other enemies.
"When [Infinite] released everyone loved it."
Everyone. Except for me haha 🤣 I was not about this game when it came out and boy do I feel vindicated now that with time everyones come around to my side! I do have a respect for parts of Infinite because of Monty's analysis video on it but by far and away the final nail in the Bioshock coffin for me. Intrigued to see how Neil and Chase feel about it but they don't have to play it and I'm sure Monty will give it a nice sugar coating. But we've got a ways to go to find out!
i paused the video while i was in studios at uni at 2:52:24 and concerned so many people who just caught my screen
Listening to these makes cleaning my house such a better experience. Congratulations to you and Noobus. :)
In the bad ending, it's not that Rapture has nukes, it's that the splicers hijacked a nuclear submarine.
Or am I remembering wrong?
Otherwise, great job!
like that note right at the end of the video. Learned an interesting new fact today.
2:04:13 Cohen reminds me of Evil Within 2's Stefano with his sick idea of art by posing his victims bodies.
Neil's dead?
Neil Club is in shambles
I have learned today that Monty misses his hair. I did not expect that 😆
Another wonderful game to discuss. Hope everything's as well as can be for you lads.
Dude: "So, about Ayn Rand and the relevance to Bioshock."
*somehow starts rambling about Prager-U*
Me: GET ON WITH IT!
Fantastic video. Fantastic performance.
How do you guys not have more subscribers! Blown away by the content I’ve been binging over the past few days! Can’t wait to explore moire lore dumps! Would love to see you do Devil May Cry or Assassins creed next but looking forward to Yakuza as I’ve never touched those games
Not heard it before but Montys mic seems to have this bassy droning thing going on which I have not heard before and is not in anyone else's mic ever i think
Suck egg might be a reference to insults from Shakespeare????
You got something wrong when explaining the little sisters... When it was discovered the slugs were a rare commodity Fontaine, Suchong and Tenenbaum created little sisters to get more, yes BUT they also gave them the ability to drain the adam from corpses. People hooked on adam would go mad and eventually would die (either through madness induced struggles or simply from accidents or natural causes)...at which point all that Adam would go to waste... which would be a waste considdering the scarcity of the "product". So the sisters were ALSO given a way to extract dormant Adam from corpses as a sort of waste recycling. Eventually people caught on this was what little sisters were capable of so they started targetting little sisters (who, at that point, had no protection) and so Adam was lost to fontain... who responded with making Big Daddies to protect his "investment".
That's also why Daddies had to be linked to little sisters because when just using automatons/robots they couldn't get the big daddies to prioritise protection of the little sisters over self-preservation... but who would protect a little girl over anything else? Her father ofc.... daddy would rather die than see anything happen to "his little girl"
You might have missed this but it was explained in the mini-sode online/ARG (IIRC it was called "There's something in the sea") that preceeded the release of Bioshock 2
I'm SO excited for the next episode. I love bioshock 2 it's the best one for sure.
I'm so excited for this video and for the other games to be covered. Keep up the amazing work, lads.
I really appreciate the lengths Monty went through to make sure Chase wasn't spoiled on key plot points too early.