Haha, thanks for the back patio view just for ME!! That was an impressive comparison with the two different types of die for the 6.5 Creed. Sounds like you've got yourself a hunting load no matter which one you decide to go with. I recently got a LEE neck sizing collet die for the 300 Win Mag. It'll be a while before I try it out. I've been trying a different bullet in the 6mm Creedmoor. It's the Hornady 105 hr BTHP Match. Looking good.
Todd B yea the Savage 110 Tactical seems to be shooting the variety of bullets very well no matter which one I go with. What’s great is I haven’t even began messing with seating depth or anything like that yet and the loads still perform well from trip to trip.
Dear Alabama Reloader, Can you say what is the rifle your testing your loads with, plus identify its barrel twist, length of the barrel and if the chamber was cut by the rifle maker, and what make was the reamer, as a factory or custom. What is the brand of cases, the primers, and what is your leade for the amount of bullet jump before the bullets ogive touches the rifling. All of these factors have an effect on your shooting. Then you should identify if you trimmed your case necks to what wall thickness at the necks and what is the trim length of your cases. Are you shooting with a bench rest set up or with the barrel supported by a bipod or a sandbag under the forearm. Shooting 5 shot groups with a cold barrel that is clean is going to give you a certain size group and as you shoot more 5 shot groups without cleaning the barrel and allowing it to cool to the same temperature of your first shot of the first group can cause a different group size even if your shooting the same bullet with the same powder charge. Think about using a run-out gauge so you can segregate your loads as per the amount of bullet run out. If possible test your bullets for run-out prior to loading, unless you load solids that were turned on a lathe its almost impossible to have perfect bullet jackets with wall thickness that is consistent. Even lathe turned bullets are far from perfect. But the key is to have your bullet jump out of the case, enter the rifling exactly in the center of the bore. If you shoot a thin, light weight barrel with a lot of movement in it you can be the cause of a opened up group if you shoot to fast your second and next 3 shots, that's one reason match barrels are quite large at each end.
I use them as well. I think my process is as efficient as I can get it now. I anneal with the anneal-eze, then I spray with liquid lanolin lube, then I body size with a Redding body die and bump the shoulder.001” but I think you could do it with a bushing die without the brushing, then I use the Lee collet neck sizing die and I do it twice rotating the brass a little. I have found that over a few reloads my neck wall thickness has become a little more uniform as well. After that I load them up and then wash the lube off real quick and wipe them. Done.
T H Can you explain the logic behind bumping the shoulder at all? That is just going to cause the brass to fail at its weakest point sooner rather then later.
T H just to qualify my experiences, I was a national level marksman since my days as a junior in High school, and I competed at Camp Perry twice before joining the Marine Corps. I load 30-06, 308 Win, and 338 LP magnum so I know the value of loading for both auto rifles and bolt action types. In a Semiauto rifle you need to full length resize the cases, and in Guns like a M-1 or a M-14 your may get 3 reloads in those cases. A 223 case could be reloaded 10 times and cases in a bolt action might go 6-8 reloads longer if you anneal the necks every so often. But to shoot better then one inch at 100 yards requires a coax bullet aligned with the bore 100 percent. An that requires a case aligned as well to the bore. If the chamber is off center you will have a hard time keeping your shot groups that small. My 338 rifle is a custom build and that smith did not let go of that rifle until it shot under an inch at 300 yards. An he used lapula factory 250 match grade Ammo.
Saw another video of an informal survey of top long range shooters. Thirty out of thirty said they did full length resize and one said he might bump the shoulder.
If you dig I think you'll find they all bump the shoulder. The one (IIRC it was Sam Millard over at Panhandle Precision?) said “losing points because I can't extract a shell is a dumb reason to lose a match”. That was the argument that turned me.
Saw another video more about the fact that BR chambers are custom and very tight vs your standard hunting chamber which is made oversized so that all manufacturers ammo can be used. The BR shooters are all perfectly resizing full length to exactly match there chambers. The other thing I notice is EVERYONE on YuoTube is using a 6.5 Creedmoor target chamber as there example. A BR shooter does a PRECISE full sizing with custom dies everything in the chamber is concentric and precise. I personally have not neck size yet. Always had the best luck with 30-06 reloads all bullet weights and differing powders.
@@leeeng478 It doesn't matter what chamber you have: after the brass is fired it grows, and eventually, if you don't bump that shoulder back, you're going to have problems, whether you have a match chamber, a standard chamber, or an over-sized wild-cat.
Have you thought about trying a full length bushing die, have had good results with the redding type s, one operation and it keeps the body supported when sizing the neck. Great content by the way
My MY you jumped head first in that rabbit hole . WELL your not alone i have been down there for sometime myself. I don't buy die sets anymore. I buy them one at a time. I use the redding body and a lee collet die a seating die and an expanding mandrel die. And this is what works for me ha ha. Great vid keep it up stay safe.
Morgan Silva yea I’m just digging deeper and deeper down into the rabbit hole of reloading. I think I’m going to transition into more single die purchasing in the future. Y’all stay safe!
Great video. Seems like we do many things alike in regards to the FL sizing die. I prefer this method since I find neck sized rounds tend to be inconsistent when chambered. Some go in OK , others are tight. Be interesting to know your rifle set up. I'm shooting a Remington 700 in .260 Remington. Trued action fitted to a Kreiger # 17 contour 1-9 twist....it's a fatty , Triggertech trigger set at 2.5 lbs. The load is CCI primer, Peterson case with 41.0 Varget behind a Sierra Match King 107gr..... .005 off the lands. Bell & Carlson stock in M-40 style. I kid you not , I have this thing putting 5 shots inside .160" at 100 yds. Velocity 3125 fps.
Hardwoods2020 that’s an impressive rig and I believe it on the precision...great velocity as well. I prefer to full length size every time I run through the process...if you only neck you’ll eventually have to full length resize and you’re back to ground zero so might as well perform the same process each and every time to ensure the most consistent rounds possible...just my opinion.
I will second Conservative Sniper Hunter's thoughts. The more you use that die the better results you will get. You can speed it up by rotating each case a partial turn 2 or 3 times and sizing again. You can watch this happen on your concentricity gauge.
How far off the lands did you seat the bullets ? The great thing about the Lee Collet Dies is that if for example one side of the neck is a few thou thicker than the other side the Lee Collet Die will make the thickness of the case neck uniform all around the neck without lengthening the case neck by more than 0.001 to 0.002 of an inch .
How far you are from the land don’t really matter. Here’s a video Of how a national champion of F class shooter loads ruclips.net/video/oRXlCG9YZbQ/видео.html
My 6.5 Creedmoor is a bit frustrating because the group sizes stay between 1 and 1/2MOA. I find it very difficult to find the right load, one day it works and the next day I have many fliers. Accuracy was way more consistent with my .308 win barrel. With the right load it could group under 1/2 MOA all the time with no effort.
What rifle do you have? That Savage 110 Tactical made reloading boring because I almost had to try to get the thing to not shoot good…best off the shelf rifle I’ve ever owned.
@@alabamareloader I mean I'm trying to make it shoot less than 1/2 MOA all the time at 100m. Ir's my criteria for "good groups" with a Tikka T3x. The rifle isn't the problem, it was shooting 0.4MOA (average) with the factory barrel in .308w. I have rebarreled another Tikka in 6BR, it shoots 0.3 MOA groups in average.
Have you tried h4831sc with the 140 eld or barnes 140 match burners.. .26 group at 100 with 43.0 to 43.5 grains Using a redding body die, lee collett and Forster micro seating die
7:00 You say “almost one ten thousandth” but I'm thinking it's likely quite a bit less than that even: it appears you're caliper, like mine, only measures to the half thousandth, and not the ten thousandth, so all those +/-0.0005 extreme differences are likely only +/-0.0003-4 in actuality, rounded to 0.0005, meaning in actuality it's liking closer to an extreme spread of 0.0006-0.0008 than the 0.0009 you calculated as an average. So ya I think you can be confident that your decision to continue full length sizing has no negative effect on your shooting, and is the right decision!
You won't be using the collet die after your regular F/L die with the expander removed. Regular dies undersize brass necks a horrible amount, and you'll destroy the Lee CND if you try and use it as an expander. Better to use a Redding Body Die first, followed by the Lee CND.
Alabama Reloader a great way to get more subscribers is join live chats with youtuber X-Ring ( X-Ring is a wealth of knowledge on all thing guns , in particular rifles ) and Isyour6covered channel, there many like minded shooters that interact with each other . Hope to see you join in the discussions . Cheers 🍻
Enjoying your videos! Have you watched FortuneCookie45LC? You may get more video ideas to make? For example, he rotates some of his brass 1/4 turn, 4 times, when using Lee collet die.
Ok. The battle goes on in the individual tests. But. I am going with what the top pro shooters who shoot for a living and compete. All say how they do it. Full sizing is their answer.
Haha, thanks for the back patio view just for ME!! That was an impressive comparison with the two different types of die for the 6.5 Creed. Sounds like you've got yourself a hunting load no matter which one you decide to go with.
I recently got a LEE neck sizing collet die for the 300 Win Mag. It'll be a while before I try it out. I've been trying a different bullet in the 6mm Creedmoor. It's the Hornady 105 hr BTHP Match. Looking good.
Todd B yea the Savage 110 Tactical seems to be shooting the variety of bullets very well no matter which one I go with. What’s great is I haven’t even began messing with seating depth or anything like that yet and the loads still perform well from trip to trip.
Dear Alabama Reloader, Can you say what is the rifle your testing your loads with, plus identify its barrel twist, length of the barrel and if the chamber was cut by the rifle maker, and what make was the reamer, as a factory or custom. What is the brand of cases, the primers, and what is your leade for the amount of bullet jump before the bullets ogive touches the rifling. All of these factors have an effect on your shooting. Then you should identify if you trimmed your case necks to what wall thickness at the necks and what is the trim length of your cases. Are you shooting with a bench rest set up or with the barrel supported by a bipod or a sandbag under the forearm.
Shooting 5 shot groups with a cold barrel that is clean is going to give you a certain size group and as you shoot more 5 shot groups without cleaning the barrel and allowing it to cool to the same temperature of your first shot of the first group can cause a different group size even if your shooting the same bullet with the same powder charge. Think about using a run-out gauge so you can segregate your loads as per the amount of bullet run out. If possible test your bullets for run-out prior to loading, unless you load solids that were turned on a lathe its almost impossible to have perfect bullet jackets with wall thickness that is consistent. Even lathe turned bullets are far from perfect.
But the key is to have your bullet jump out of the case, enter the rifling exactly in the center of the bore. If you shoot a thin, light weight barrel with a lot of movement in it you can be the cause of a opened up group if you shoot to fast your second and next 3 shots, that's one reason match barrels are quite large at each end.
You should use a mandrel expanding die. After FS bump with no decapping pin
I use them as well. I think my process is as efficient as I can get it now. I anneal with the anneal-eze, then I spray with liquid lanolin lube, then I body size with a Redding body die and bump the shoulder.001” but I think you could do it with a bushing die without the brushing, then I use the Lee collet neck sizing die and I do it twice rotating the brass a little. I have found that over a few reloads my neck wall thickness has become a little more uniform as well. After that I load them up and then wash the lube off real quick and wipe them. Done.
T H Can you explain the logic behind bumping the shoulder at all? That is just going to cause the brass to fail at its weakest point sooner rather then later.
T H just to qualify my experiences, I was a national level marksman since my days as a junior in High school, and I competed at Camp Perry twice before joining the Marine Corps.
I load 30-06, 308 Win, and 338 LP magnum so I know the value of loading for both auto rifles and bolt action types. In a Semiauto rifle you need to full length resize the cases, and in Guns like a M-1 or a M-14 your may get 3 reloads in those cases. A 223 case could be reloaded 10 times and cases in a bolt action might go 6-8 reloads longer if you anneal the necks every so often. But to shoot better then one inch at 100 yards requires a coax bullet aligned with the bore 100 percent. An that requires a case aligned as well to the bore. If the chamber is off center you will have a hard time keeping your shot groups that small. My 338 rifle is a custom build and that smith did not let go of that rifle until it shot under an inch at 300 yards. An he used lapula factory 250 match grade Ammo.
Saw another video of an informal survey of top long range shooters. Thirty out of thirty said they did full length resize and one said he might bump the shoulder.
If you dig I think you'll find they all bump the shoulder. The one (IIRC it was Sam Millard over at Panhandle Precision?) said “losing points because I can't extract a shell is a dumb reason to lose a match”. That was the argument that turned me.
Saw another video more about the fact that BR chambers are custom and very tight vs your standard hunting chamber which is made oversized so that all manufacturers ammo can be used. The BR shooters are all perfectly resizing full length to exactly match there chambers. The other thing I notice is EVERYONE on YuoTube is using a 6.5 Creedmoor target chamber as there example. A BR shooter does a PRECISE full sizing with custom dies everything in the chamber is concentric and precise. I personally have not neck size yet. Always had the best luck with 30-06 reloads all bullet weights and differing powders.
@@leeeng478 It doesn't matter what chamber you have: after the brass is fired it grows, and eventually, if you don't bump that shoulder back, you're going to have problems, whether you have a match chamber, a standard chamber, or an over-sized wild-cat.
@@wilfdarr Yes, so I should bump the shoulders back? Bumping the shoulders back is fully resizing?
@@wilfdarr Is setting the shoulders back considered fully resizing?
Have you thought about trying a full length bushing die, have had good results with the redding type s, one operation and it keeps the body supported when sizing the neck. Great content by the way
Tyler Boggs I have for the 6.5 but sounds like something I need to dive off into!
My MY you jumped head first in that rabbit hole .
WELL your not alone i have been down there for sometime myself.
I don't buy die sets anymore. I buy them one at a time.
I use the redding body and a lee collet die a seating die and an expanding
mandrel die. And this is what works for me ha ha.
Great vid keep it up stay safe.
Morgan Silva yea I’m just digging deeper and deeper down into the rabbit hole of reloading. I think I’m going to transition into more single die purchasing in the future. Y’all stay safe!
Great video. Seems like we do many things alike in regards to the FL sizing die. I prefer this method since I find neck sized rounds tend to be inconsistent when chambered. Some go in OK , others are tight. Be interesting to know your rifle set up. I'm shooting a Remington 700 in .260 Remington. Trued action fitted to a Kreiger # 17 contour 1-9 twist....it's a fatty , Triggertech trigger set at 2.5 lbs. The load is CCI primer, Peterson case with 41.0 Varget behind a Sierra Match King 107gr..... .005 off the lands. Bell & Carlson stock in M-40 style. I kid you not , I have this thing putting 5 shots inside .160" at 100 yds. Velocity 3125 fps.
Hardwoods2020 that’s an impressive rig and I believe it on the precision...great velocity as well. I prefer to full length size every time I run through the process...if you only neck you’ll eventually have to full length resize and you’re back to ground zero so might as well perform the same process each and every time to ensure the most consistent rounds possible...just my opinion.
@@alabamareloader I agree. Now you have me thinking about trying the scenar 108 gr. OTM.
The tightness is where u need to bump the shoulders back 10 or 20 thousands
I will second Conservative Sniper Hunter's thoughts. The more you use that die the better results you will get. You can speed it up by rotating each case a partial turn 2 or 3 times and sizing again. You can watch this happen on your concentricity gauge.
How far off the lands did you seat the bullets ? The great thing about the Lee Collet Dies is that if for example one side of the neck is a few thou thicker than the other side the Lee Collet Die will make the thickness of the case neck uniform all around the neck without lengthening the case neck by more than 0.001 to 0.002 of an inch .
How far you are from the land don’t really matter. Here’s a video Of how a national champion of F class shooter loads
ruclips.net/video/oRXlCG9YZbQ/видео.html
My 6.5 Creedmoor is a bit frustrating because the group sizes stay between 1 and 1/2MOA. I find it very difficult to find the right load, one day it works and the next day I have many fliers. Accuracy was way more consistent with my .308 win barrel. With the right load it could group under 1/2 MOA all the time with no effort.
What rifle do you have? That Savage 110 Tactical made reloading boring because I almost had to try to get the thing to not shoot good…best off the shelf rifle I’ve ever owned.
@@alabamareloader I mean I'm trying to make it shoot less than 1/2 MOA all the time at 100m. Ir's my criteria for "good groups" with a Tikka T3x. The rifle isn't the problem, it was shooting 0.4MOA (average) with the factory barrel in .308w. I have rebarreled another Tikka in 6BR, it shoots 0.3 MOA groups in average.
Titan Reloading look at this store.
pretty impressive is right! 15 groups, ln less that 3/4 in group size. Nice!
Converted over to team Lee!!! Lee for the win!
Jake Hembree row tide
Have you tried h4831sc with the 140 eld or barnes 140 match burners..
.26 group at 100 with 43.0 to 43.5 grains
Using a redding body die, lee collett and Forster micro seating die
@@markholly3757 no sir i have not
Not enough difference to make a difference in my opinion. Good analysis!
7:00
You say “almost one ten thousandth” but I'm thinking it's likely quite a bit less than that even: it appears you're caliper, like mine, only measures to the half thousandth, and not the ten thousandth, so all those +/-0.0005 extreme differences are likely only +/-0.0003-4 in actuality, rounded to 0.0005, meaning in actuality it's liking closer to an extreme spread of 0.0006-0.0008 than the 0.0009 you calculated as an average. So ya I think you can be confident that your decision to continue full length sizing has no negative effect on your shooting, and is the right decision!
You won't be using the collet die after your regular F/L die with the expander removed. Regular dies undersize brass necks a horrible amount, and you'll destroy the Lee CND if you try and use it as an expander. Better to use a Redding Body Die first, followed by the Lee CND.
Are you shooting these groups off hand?
skycam321 bipod and a rear bag
collet neck die for concentric necks is much easier than neck turning
But.... you'll still need to FL resize at some point
Alabama Reloader a great way to get more subscribers is join live chats with youtuber X-Ring ( X-Ring is a wealth of knowledge on all thing guns , in particular rifles ) and Isyour6covered channel, there many like minded shooters that interact with each other . Hope to see you join in the discussions . Cheers 🍻
Enjoying your videos!
Have you watched FortuneCookie45LC? You may get more video ideas to make?
For example, he rotates some of his brass 1/4 turn, 4 times, when using Lee collet die.
Ok. The battle goes on in the individual tests. But. I am going with what the top pro shooters who shoot for a living and compete. All say how they do it. Full sizing is their answer.
Neck sizing sucks!!