Im still a little unsure how to run my redding competition dies. So I have a fl sizer and a neck die that I have SAC bushings for. I FL size first then neck size? And the micrometer on the neck sizer for neck sizing depth. Haven't been able to find any info in this. Help. Lol.
Whenever I want to get into reloading it’s videos like this that throw me off…so technical and behind every second sentence it feals like the narrator means „if you don’t do this perfectly, your gun will blow up an you will certainly die..“
Back in the day reloading involved only 2 tests. 1. would the bolt close with a resized case in the chamber? and 2. would the bolt close on the cartridge in the chamber with the bullet seated.? Less than ideal to be sure, but no guns were blown up. Making same reloads that won't blow up your gun is very simple.
I was lucky to start reloading with a mentor. Now that I've reloaded brass a few times everything in this video seems straight forward. Without hands on experience, it seems unattainable, but once you start you will begin to understand quickly
@@davidfarrell4289 Not even a few times, i've "reloaded" twice, once about 2 years ago, and again just under a week ago. I say reload, but my first time i reloaded for my 45-70 with the help of someone else, and the most recent time i've only sized the brass (so far), i read the specs, watched videos, and just did it myself on my own press, i did .223 first, then .30 herrett (a slightly more complicated process, it's a wildcat) i still need to trim the brass, prime them, measure the powder, and seat the bullet, but i already understand 95% of that. Just from attempting it myself, and watching a few videos, it all becomes pretty easy to understand. Once you understand the measurements and how to use a caliper, what certain terms mean, like full length sizing, case length, seat depth, etc. it becomes pretty straightforward. Anything beyond the simple numbers you see in the books is getting very precise for your specific gun, which isn't necessary for most people. Reloading is fairly simple, but getting into the specifics requires precision, but in turn it should lead to better accuracy. Anyone can pick up a reloading book, a caliper, a press, and start reloading safely by following the book. The beauty of handloading though is being able to make custom loads for your specific gun. You can follow the book and shoot 1-2" groups at 100 yards, or you can go more in depth and punch 5 rounds in the same hole at 100 yards. You can make it as simple or as difficult as you want to, that's all up to the time you want to invest into it. It all depends on if you want to turn it into an expensive and time consuming hobby or not lol
Good info, I just take fired clean cases, punch the primer out then keep setting the shoulder back untill the lever or bolt just closes easy, then give it touch more. And then run all cases through the die.
I highly recommend the Redding competition shell holder kit. Just get your die screwed in where it's close and then start with the highest shell holder .010". Not enough bump? Use the next smallest shell holder until you get the desired .002" set back.
@@OvertonWindex what I’m saying is many or most 223 Fl sizing die will over size the brass a lot. For a full contact sized brass, one of my rifle will create 0.015” expansion. The 0.010” shell holder will size it back to 0.010” which still leaves 0.005” should bump which is too much
@@willxu08 just the small base FL sizing dies... specific fir ARs basically. If you don't want to size everything back down to Sammi, then don't get the black box for semi auto rifles. Get just a regular FL.
@@willxu08 or wait.. you still have a confusing question. If you want it sized all the way back down... use a black box RCBS AR sizing die... if you don't, then why would that bother you?
I set my FL Die to where it just starts to cam over. Then, I use Redding Competition Dies to determine shoulder bump. Works well because most brass brands do not bump the same and it keeps me from having to adjust the dies all the time.
I'm using a Lee FLSD with an after market lock ring. I find that between the beveled edges on the ring and bottom of the die, and because of the threads causing the ring to be slightly tilted, the only way to get a consistent measurement is to measure in the same place on the ring, like in line with the locking screw. Also, i find it easier to put the square end of the caliper on the bottom of the die and using the blade to measure to the ring.
I liked the methodical way you demonstrated resizing fully, without the expander ball, and without touching the neck at all. I had taken the .002-.003” shoulder bump as a given. Now I am confident that is a reasonable approach. BTW for an M1A semiauto I push the shoulder back .004-.005” to ensure function. That action is really hard on brass and they will only last 5 firings anyway.
Could one use a feeler gauge to set space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die body for a more accurate setting rather than the dial caliper jaws ?
I'd like to respectfully mention that most of the questions being asked would be solved if you read a reloading manual. The Lyman reloading manual is my go to.
Yes and no, the reloading manuals give you the very basics to reload to SAAMI specs. That is fine to do, and will work well enough, but not every chamber is exactly SAAMI specs. If you follow the book, your loads will function well, but you're not utilizing your gun to the fullest by doing that. By going more in depth, you can get more accuracy out of your reloads, which is the point of reloading in the first place. Having a consistent trim length + annealing every time you reload, backing the shoulder off by 0.002", and finding the proper seat depth for your chamber all lead to more accuracy. You can skip those steps and follow the book and be fine, but you won't get nearly as accurate a group that you could get by doing those few extra modifications to the numbers in the manual. Those steps are also once and done things for the most part, and they can significantly tighten up your group compared to simply following the manual. To me, squeezing over 50% more accuracy out of a load for only an hour or two of time seems to be worth it. But in the end, it depends on the application. A 1" group at 100 yards is fine, but if i can put 5 rounds in the same hole at 100 yards, then why not go for it? Thats just my opinion though
I have that Whidden headspace measuring gauge I really really like. To me I think it’s beneficial to see what actual SAAMI value my fired cases are or are being sized to, or what value loaded factory rounds are for that matter.
Firstly, thank you for your videos. They’ve made the jump into reloading much easier. So long story long, I’ve just sized my first batch of brass using a Coax Press and Forster full length sizing die. I don’t aneal….yet. I did measure all my norma once fired brass with a Hornady head space gauge and the consistency was within .0005 I set up my die and walked it in until I was at .-.002 vs my fired brass. I then started to press the rest of the brass and the consistency on the headspace gauge was between -.0015 to -.0025 Is this to be expected without anealing or could the inconsistencies be coming from somewhere else? Any perspective would be much appreciated. Thanks again!
Great video. Measuring is critical! I have one die that in order to bump my shoulder .003 there is a pretty hefty cam over. You need to measure it whether it is with a comparator or in your chamber.
I am confused, once you adjust your die to the shell holder how does adjusting your die down make a difference?, It's still touching the shell holder. ?
and 7mm rem magnum. I'm still fairly new and feel like I've wasted a fair amount of materials. My 223 loads probably aren't as fast as they could or should be but they're very accurate. My other loads are like milsurp crap, not too good of groups 308 is getting 5 moa terrible. With federal gold match etc. they touch bullets so they're good barrels. My method has been pick a medium load then go up .5 grains, 1grain and down .5 grains, 1 grain for 3 cartridges so 15 shots 3x5. I then shoot from benchrest at 100yrds and check group sizes. Whatever grouped best I make 85 of those and for 308, 25-06, 7mag the results have been mediocre. Help correct my mistakes.
One option is Erik Cortina tuner brake. For loads, chrono. Look for plateau where a few 0.1 gr increments produce none to minimal increase in FPS. Also look for load with low ES and deviation. (Keep in mind digital scales accurate to 0.1gr can be an entire 0.1 gr off) Then use that load, batches of 5 rds (+/-) ea, reducing seating depth 0.002” per batch to dial in grouping. I think both this channel and Eric Cortina give more detailed explanation.
I am new to reloading. I received once fired brass from my friend that is identical to my brass for my rifle. I measured the headspace on the rounds and they are -0.003. Do I have to resize the brass since it will chamber in my rifle? Thanks
Still learning. Started using an LNL AP Press and with pistol. Now I’m venturing into rifle reloading. So first let me ask. I heard bolt action mentioned. Therefore, are these absolutely necessary when reloading for a semi-auto?
In my 6.5 creedmoor Tikka, the fired case measurement in the comparator is 1.5" exactly. Every single time. I've a L.E. Wilson FL bushing die and initial set up was to just touch the shell holder on the press with the die. Resize one case and measure. Normally that will maybe bump 1 thou or none and then tweak down a little until it's at 2 though bump. Check with another piece of brass and then another for good measure. If it's all consistent then I'll just resize the whole batch. Next time, I will just put the die in, resize the first piece of brass, check and it should be okay. If it's a 2thou bump, just resize the batch. I'm running a Forster Co-ax press.
This was the most difficult video to understand. I can only imagine that the video was designed for people who were already reloading not for the novice or first time Reloader…!
Hi, Mr. BAR. First of all, thank you for the great information. I am running into the issue you've mentioned, Sizing that cause the Headspace Measurement to Grow instead of Shrink. What would you suggest to remedy this? Screw down the die more to push back the shoulder? Even with the lengthened headspace measurement, my rifle can still chamber the cases just fine. For Reference, it is a Bolt Action 223. And I'm using Onced Fired Remington Brass. Thanks again.
Thank you for another great video. What is your opinion on using a forester full length sizing die vs a lee full length sizing die both with the expander ball removed just to size the outside of the case. Should the results be the same or different?
I don't quite understand the ending portion. My 223 redding die is doing the same, oversizing the brass. For some of my LMT semi auto AR15 rifle, it even bump the shoulder 0.020'' if I make the die completely touch the ramp. How to solve this? For my other dies(sac for 308win 6.5cr, redding for 338LPM), none of them will give me a shoulder bump less than 5 if I set them fully contact the ramp for brass fired by bolt action rifle. Are you saying we should simply screw the die up until it gives us the desired 0.002''-0.003'' shoulder bump even though the die might not contact the ramp anymore?
That's what I do, go in until the die contacts the shell holder, and actually screw it back out a 1/4 turn, and slowly go back down until I get the set back where I want it.
@@BoltActionReloading Thanks for the reply and great video. I got this firm contact impression from those shell holder's introduction video. I just got an area419 modular shell holder and the redding competition shell holder is on the way as well. What got me frustrated is both of them will do 8k-10k extra length, but still won't fix my 15k expansion.
@@willxu08 something i remember, is to always stick with same brand shell holders. It might have been on Johnny reloading bench, but using different brands can sometimes cause problems too.
Can someone please explain something to me? In the initial stages where you pull the lever down and screw in the die to make contact, I don't see how turning the die anymore controls the shoulder bump. For example, people say that a 1/4 turn more is too much and you'll get more than .002" shoulder bump, however, doesn't the shell holder BOTTOM OUT on the die, regardless? Like, when you set the initial contact between the shell holder and die, you could then turn the FL die 1+ revolutions and it shouldn't matter because the shell holder can't push the case in any farther, since it bottoms out on the die... Please heellppp
I really hope someone answers your question because that is the exact same issue I don't understand. If I'm using a plain Forester Full Length sizing die in my RCBS Supreme press, how does the shoulder dimension change if the ram bottoms out on the base of the die?
I understand but I don’t think I could explain it very well. When you screw the die down further, past the initial point where the die and the shell holder made contact once cammed over, you’re then pushing the case further into the die setting the shoulder back further. Or think of it like this. You cam over and screw the die down until it touches the shell holder. Theoretically your case will be the same length as the top of the shell holder to the inside of the die. Now screw the die down further. When you push the case into the die it’s going to pushed up further because now there’s less distance from the top of the shell holder to the upper inside of the die forcing the inside of the die to push the shoulder back more. Hope that makes sense.
I watched this trying to figure out why my RCBS 6.5 Creedmoor dies are flaring the case mouth when I size my cases. Any thoughts? Would love to see a video on this.
@@BoltActionReloading it seems like the problem may have been with the cases themselves. The problem only occurred with lapua Brass. Federal and alpha size properly. I am reloading previously fired brass. I returned my Lee dies and purchased RCBS. Had the same problem. I ended up purchasing a neck sizing die to correct the problem. So after full length sizing, I use the neck sizing die to remove the flare.
@EverydayReloadingandShooting I have resized a lot of 6.5 cm brass in lots of brands, including lapua. Have you posted a video or a picture of the flare? Any measurements on the thickness of your cases?
How do you remove the expander ball in a Forster FL die? I got a expander mandrel set but can't find any videos or resources to remove the FL expander ball. Thank you
..I have one FL die for .223 Rem. If 1/8 turn after contact with shell holder bumps the shoulder around 0.009" and 1/8 turn of the die is 0.009", why not just lock the die just past this (a 1/32th turn) Would that produce a 0.002-3" shoulder bump? I use a witness marks on my Lee collect neck resizing die so the die is set consistently and this working great on group size...
What is the recommended shoulder bump for a breech rifle (TC Encore)? Getting ready to start load development for one of these for the first time and not sure what rules are action specific. Thanks all the great content.
Hi Tommy, I honestly was not aware that TC made a centerfire Encore. I would assume the same .002" would be what you would look for. I have never loaded for one of those before so you may find better info somewhere else.
Man, I can’t wait till the day I know as much as you :( I’m wanting to get into reloading and don’t have anything get. Im trying to reload for a 30-40 Krag Jorgensen.
Maybe you will answer my question. I have two different AR's. One chambered in 556 and the other in 223 Wylde. The 556 bumps the shoulder up by about .006 while the 223 Wylde bumps the shoulder about .003. Do I need to reload for each rifle, or is there a way to reload one size for both chambers? Thanks.
Hey 3D, I assume you are trying to say that one AR had a headspace measurement that this .003" larger than the first? If this is the case you can size them all to fit in the smallest or load for them individually, its up to you. For some its not worth the hassle and if there is a accuracy difference do you care in this application? Hope this helps. BAR
I have done this but a week ago noticed that at the setting Sako, PMC, Lapua, GGG and few others size well, Selliers do not. They also took considerable amount of force to size, some were from my friend's new LMT. I tried chambering the cases and the bolt became very sticky.
The setting can change for different brass. (Number of firings, annealed vs not, some brands are thicker) If you measured the bump and its the same it should fit unless it was fired in a chamber that was a larger diameter or fired with too hot of a load.
.0005 to .002 for a bolt gun is perfect any more your over working the brass depending on how your rifle is chambered and a bunch of other variables....002 to.004 for a semi auto rifle seems to be the sweet spot for not over working and reliable function
This might seem Like a silly question but if you take the expander ball out of the die, is there a measurement you set it to when you reinstall it. I noticed in the instructions for my Forster die that it said to avoid having it too high or it would crush the case, which is exactly what I did! Lowering it stopped that happening, but is it possible to go too low?
I have handloaded for 40 years but never really a 'precision' rifle handloader. Basically.... I need cases to fit in several guns of the same caliber. Even adjusting to the normal just touching the shell holder plus an eighth.... My Remington model 81 semi auto in .300 savage and my Remington 722 bolt gun in .300 savage do not like the same adjustment. The semi auto will eat anything pretty much and is very accurate. The 722 is tight. hard to close the bolt. Some of this may be due to me using .308 military brass for my .300 savage brass I use the military so it does not say '.308' on the headstamp. I do load a lot of handgun stuff tho.
Maybe I'm wrong but all my dies I screw down till its touching the shell holder then back it off half a turn one of my old manuals recommended that from 1992, I use RCBS dies
My biggest mistake was bumping the shoulders on brass that wasnt fully fire formed. I never heard that you need to fire it up to 3 or 4 times before moving the shoulder is even a thing. Expensive mistake, sort of..
Just did the same thing on accident. I ran into pressure signs with a load that was perfectly fine with virgin brass and then it dawned on me what I did. I knew brass had to be fired a few times but my brain was stuck on "bump the shoulder 2 thousandths " lol
I'm having trouble getting consistency with my shoulder bump... I'll set it with a -.002 bump and will get that on two or 3 cases, then it will jump around, -.0005, to -.007 even.... It's really frustrating me as I'm shooting for case life and I'm pretty sure it's affecting my velocities let alone accuracy. It's once fired Winchester brass and a Lee pace setter die. I'm pretty sure that I'm being consistent on my case lube, I've even tried heavier and lighter amounts of lube and that did the opposite of what I would expect... Any help would be appreciated.
@@BoltActionReloading I was afraid you were going to say that lol. No I am not, looking at a EP 2.0 annealing machine though because I figured that might be my issue.
@Jonny Sprague no many folks do and can't keep it consistent. Don't worry about it to start with. You don't need any complications when you are starting. What are you measuring your headspace with ans is the brass all the same lot?
@@BoltActionReloading My wallet thanks you haha. I'm using a Comparator like the Hornady ones. They measure consistently with the fire formed brass. Yes the first batch I did was the same lot. The second batch had a few different lots but it was about the same as far as inconsistency. I appreciate your advice! Thank you.
I have been told that brass spring back will mess with your measurements. I’m considering doing a chamber casting but I don’t believe that’s even possible to do on a auto.
I normally try to set back my223 with 5k. That way all 3 rifles can run it well. But my other rifles I only have one of I normally lock and mark them for2k. But after a decade of affective reloading I've learned that annealing is very important as I can't get 2ks of shoulder setback with unaneled brass. Dang it a never wanted to bring fire into my reloading process. I might have to start shooting factory again
I felt dumb enough when I went to youtube to try and find what I'm doing wrong. 5 minutes in, and I now feel even dumber than before. I can't get reloads to run reliably in semiautos. Made progress w 9mm just by dropping each rd into the chamber of the disassembled pistol. But with M1A, I can't check that way. Can't figure weather I have light strikes on the primer or if I am sho...omg a million variables...ugh
Please note : those calipers arnt accurate for reading half thou readings. So if you are getting a reading of 1.4465 , it could be 1.4465 - 1.4469 if its reading 1.4460 it could be anywhere between 1.4460 - 1.4464. If you get some gauge blocks or gauge pins that are a few tenths from each other , you will be able to see this in action. Just thought id point that out
Well, I am embarrassed. I have been reloading for 14 years and had no idea that a FL sizing die would bump the shoulder as much as 10/1000. That is crazy. I am going to have to change the way I set my FL sizing die.
I get all this but it frustrates me when I’m using a lee press (1st error) then Redding dies , set die to bump 2.5 thou, then next brass bumps 5 thou, next 1, next 6, next 1.5..... same brass, same firings .....talk about a way to come up with new words 🥴
@@BoltActionReloading I hadn’t on this batch (1 time fired Lapua 223) i grabbed some old brass multiple firing to measure and was doing the same thing 🤷♂️
Hey mate, have you ever set your die up and get 3 different types of out comes without changing the die Basically I'm getting 3 outcomes 1, sized right where I want it 2, not moving at all 3, over sizing And they are might be few and far between each different out come But its frustrating because I can't figure out why Might add I'm new to this haha
Hi Aaron, I would guess that your annealing is not consistent case to case and is causing the variation. Unfortunately, some folks don't want to hear that not annealing at all may be better than inconsistent results with sizing, but it's something you will have to decide. A manual flame annealing process is not as easy to pull off as some would like you to believe. I applaud you for checking multiple cases through your lot to find the variation.
@@BoltActionReloading yeah ok then, trial and error. It is a learning curve either way haha I'll use the correct one for my load development And I'll fire form them again and try again ... I've just acquired my annealing machine ( ugly annealer here in Australia) I may have jumped the gun doing such a big lot rather then test a smaller batch
Wow. Now that’s Paralysis by Analysis did you ever say how to size my brass. I’m following Mr Dillon’s instruction that comes with their very expensive dies.
Yes, you do talk really fast just like me. Slow down or you will lose your audience. Being on the radio for over 20 years, it’s something I’m always reminded of and work on… just some free advice
I don't disagree with your method at all... But I will pass along something people hate to hear, passed on to me by two Machine Tool Technology programs and a Gunsmithing program - Calipers are not accurate and repeatable to .001". They are useful for plus or minus .003". This is from machinists and toolmakers WAY smarter than me... As you say, though, if you have a process that works for you, keep using it. I prefer the more cumbersome RCBS gauges (screw together with a scale like a micrometer).
You should slow down your taking so people like me can follow along. Too fast bro 😊. I tried to hang in but you went way to fast for me to follow along
For those experienced, pace was good. Good advice & everything I heard from this guy was accurate and valid. Hearing SO many people say their loaded ammo won’t fit in their gun…. Just run a few reloads with the full length sizing die run down all the way to the shell holder. THAT reloaded ammo should all chamber in your gun. If not, there’s something wrong with your gun or die. Those who are not seating the FLSD fully down on the shell holder and having problems with their ammo not allowing bolt to close on their reloaded ammo , are not following what this guy is teaching you. Review his video until you understand or better, find a buddy who actually really knows what this guy is teaching and have that person teach you at your reloading bench.
In this video, you sound like you're in a hurry. I like what you're saying. I guess I just need to back it up and replay several times. Maybe you could've just used the basic resizing die and skipped the go-gauge and the SAC tool. Nevertheless that part was impressive; you just lost me. Thanks!
Choosing the best powder in 223 Remington: ruclips.net/video/BChWYm9y0nM/видео.html
Im still a little unsure how to run my redding competition dies. So I have a fl sizer and a neck die that I have SAC bushings for. I FL size first then neck size? And the micrometer on the neck sizer for neck sizing depth. Haven't been able to find any info in this. Help. Lol.
You said that you use the D-400 for the body comparator but on the hornady web site they recommended the C-375. Did i miss something
I recently started using the Hornaday comparator system. What a wake up call !
Whenever I want to get into reloading it’s videos like this that throw me off…so technical and behind every second sentence it feals like the narrator means „if you don’t do this perfectly, your gun will blow up an you will certainly die..“
Back in the day reloading involved only 2 tests.
1. would the bolt close with a resized case in the chamber? and 2. would the bolt close on the cartridge in the chamber with the bullet seated.?
Less than ideal to be sure, but no guns were blown up.
Making same reloads that won't blow up your gun is very simple.
I was lucky to start reloading with a mentor. Now that I've reloaded brass a few times everything in this video seems straight forward. Without hands on experience, it seems unattainable, but once you start you will begin to understand quickly
Don't let this stop you. It isn't that hard unless you are going for super precision.
@@davidfarrell4289 Not even a few times, i've "reloaded" twice, once about 2 years ago, and again just under a week ago. I say reload, but my first time i reloaded for my 45-70 with the help of someone else, and the most recent time i've only sized the brass (so far), i read the specs, watched videos, and just did it myself on my own press, i did .223 first, then .30 herrett (a slightly more complicated process, it's a wildcat) i still need to trim the brass, prime them, measure the powder, and seat the bullet, but i already understand 95% of that. Just from attempting it myself, and watching a few videos, it all becomes pretty easy to understand. Once you understand the measurements and how to use a caliper, what certain terms mean, like full length sizing, case length, seat depth, etc. it becomes pretty straightforward. Anything beyond the simple numbers you see in the books is getting very precise for your specific gun, which isn't necessary for most people. Reloading is fairly simple, but getting into the specifics requires precision, but in turn it should lead to better accuracy. Anyone can pick up a reloading book, a caliper, a press, and start reloading safely by following the book. The beauty of handloading though is being able to make custom loads for your specific gun. You can follow the book and shoot 1-2" groups at 100 yards, or you can go more in depth and punch 5 rounds in the same hole at 100 yards. You can make it as simple or as difficult as you want to, that's all up to the time you want to invest into it. It all depends on if you want to turn it into an expensive and time consuming hobby or not lol
Good info, I just take fired clean cases, punch the primer out then keep setting the shoulder back untill the lever or bolt just closes easy, then give it touch more. And then run all cases through the die.
Great video. I really like your approach of finding data, and appreciate you leaving it up on screen for a longer period of time.
Great video, when I do mine, I go in to the shell holder, and actually screw it out 1/4 turn, and slowly move it down until I get the desired bump.
That’s good to know! 🤡
I highly recommend the Redding competition shell holder kit. Just get your die screwed in where it's close and then start with the highest shell holder .010". Not enough bump? Use the next smallest shell holder until you get the desired .002" set back.
what if the expansion is more than 0.012'' after fied?
@@willxu08 you're lost somewhere but I'm not sure where. Rephrase that question
@@OvertonWindex what I’m saying is many or most 223 Fl sizing die will over size the brass a lot. For a full contact sized brass, one of my rifle will create 0.015” expansion. The 0.010” shell holder will size it back to 0.010” which still leaves 0.005” should bump which is too much
@@willxu08 just the small base FL sizing dies... specific fir ARs basically.
If you don't want to size everything back down to Sammi, then don't get the black box for semi auto rifles. Get just a regular FL.
@@willxu08 or wait.. you still have a confusing question.
If you want it sized all the way back down... use a black box RCBS AR sizing die... if you don't, then why would that bother you?
I’m going to start using witness marks on my sizing dies. Great video as always!
I set my FL Die to where it just starts to cam over. Then, I use Redding Competition Dies to determine shoulder bump. Works well because most brass brands do not bump the same and it keeps me from having to adjust the dies all the time.
I'm using a Lee FLSD with an after market lock ring. I find that between the beveled edges on the ring and bottom of the die, and because of the threads causing the ring to be slightly tilted, the only way to get a consistent measurement is to measure in the same place on the ring, like in line with the locking screw. Also, i find it easier to put the square end of the caliper on the bottom of the die and using the blade to measure to the ring.
I liked the methodical way you demonstrated resizing fully, without the expander ball, and without touching the neck at all. I had taken the .002-.003” shoulder bump as a given. Now I am confident that is a reasonable approach.
BTW for an M1A semiauto I push the shoulder back .004-.005” to ensure function. That action is really hard on brass and they will only last 5 firings anyway.
Could one use a feeler gauge to set space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die body for a more accurate setting rather than the dial caliper jaws ?
Great video finally someone who explains headspace…
I'd like to respectfully mention that most of the questions being asked would be solved if you read a reloading manual.
The Lyman reloading manual is my go to.
Yes and no, the reloading manuals give you the very basics to reload to SAAMI specs. That is fine to do, and will work well enough, but not every chamber is exactly SAAMI specs. If you follow the book, your loads will function well, but you're not utilizing your gun to the fullest by doing that. By going more in depth, you can get more accuracy out of your reloads, which is the point of reloading in the first place. Having a consistent trim length + annealing every time you reload, backing the shoulder off by 0.002", and finding the proper seat depth for your chamber all lead to more accuracy. You can skip those steps and follow the book and be fine, but you won't get nearly as accurate a group that you could get by doing those few extra modifications to the numbers in the manual. Those steps are also once and done things for the most part, and they can significantly tighten up your group compared to simply following the manual. To me, squeezing over 50% more accuracy out of a load for only an hour or two of time seems to be worth it. But in the end, it depends on the application. A 1" group at 100 yards is fine, but if i can put 5 rounds in the same hole at 100 yards, then why not go for it? Thats just my opinion though
I have that Whidden headspace measuring gauge I really really like. To me I think it’s beneficial to see what actual SAAMI value my fired cases are or are being sized to, or what value loaded factory rounds are for that matter.
Firstly, thank you for your videos. They’ve made the jump into reloading much easier.
So long story long, I’ve just sized my first batch of brass using a Coax Press and Forster full length sizing die. I don’t aneal….yet.
I did measure all my norma once fired brass with a Hornady head space gauge and the consistency was within .0005
I set up my die and walked it in until I was at .-.002 vs my fired brass.
I then started to press the rest of the brass and the consistency on the headspace gauge was between -.0015 to -.0025
Is this to be expected without anealing or could the inconsistencies be coming from somewhere else?
Any perspective would be much appreciated. Thanks again!
Great video. Measuring is critical! I have one die that in order to bump my shoulder .003 there is a pretty hefty cam over. You need to measure it whether it is with a comparator or in your chamber.
I am confused, once you adjust your die to the shell holder how does adjusting your die down make a difference?, It's still touching the shell holder. ?
It gets past cam over.
@@garyh1449 still touching the shell holder.
Another informative video. You mentioned that the head spacer used was Hornady D400 but 6.5 CM uses C375 I think
How do you set up the expander ball the best and easiest way?
Thanks for the video brother, see you on the next one,this will help many folks including me great info.
and 7mm rem magnum. I'm still fairly new and feel like I've wasted a fair amount of materials. My 223 loads probably aren't as fast as they could or should be but they're very accurate. My other loads are like milsurp crap, not too good of groups 308 is getting 5 moa terrible. With federal gold match etc. they touch bullets so they're good barrels. My method has been pick a medium load then go up .5 grains, 1grain and down .5 grains, 1 grain for 3 cartridges so 15 shots 3x5. I then shoot from benchrest at 100yrds and check group sizes. Whatever grouped best I make 85 of those and for 308, 25-06, 7mag the results have been mediocre. Help correct my mistakes.
One option is Erik Cortina tuner brake.
For loads, chrono. Look for plateau where a few 0.1 gr increments produce none to minimal increase in FPS. Also look for load with low ES and deviation.
(Keep in mind digital scales accurate to 0.1gr can be an entire 0.1 gr off)
Then use that load, batches of 5 rds (+/-) ea, reducing seating depth 0.002” per batch to dial in grouping.
I think both this channel and Eric Cortina give more detailed explanation.
I am new to reloading. I received once fired brass from my friend that is identical to my brass for my rifle. I measured the headspace on the rounds and they are -0.003. Do I have to resize the brass since it will chamber in my rifle? Thanks
Still learning. Started using an LNL AP Press and with pistol. Now I’m venturing into rifle reloading.
So first let me ask. I heard bolt action mentioned. Therefore, are these absolutely necessary when reloading for a semi-auto?
Bolt actions can handle tighter tolerances. So he was saying 2 thou for a bolt action but probably more like 3 for a semi-auto.
Wow !!!! Great Video !!!!! Excellent Job !!!! Keep up the great work.
Thank you very much!
In my 6.5 creedmoor Tikka, the fired case measurement in the comparator is 1.5" exactly. Every single time.
I've a L.E. Wilson FL bushing die and initial set up was to just touch the shell holder on the press with the die. Resize one case and measure. Normally that will maybe bump 1 thou or none and then tweak down a little until it's at 2 though bump. Check with another piece of brass and then another for good measure. If it's all consistent then I'll just resize the whole batch.
Next time, I will just put the die in, resize the first piece of brass, check and it should be okay. If it's a 2thou bump, just resize the batch.
I'm running a Forster Co-ax press.
This was the most difficult video to understand. I can only imagine that the video was designed for people who were already reloading not for the novice or first time Reloader…!
It's called complicating simplicity. It's more that the casual reloader will ever have to know.
Maybe you should stick to Legos @@garyh1449
I'm a first time reloader, or novice at best, but i understood it. Just keep watching videos like this and it all comes together.
Hi, Mr. BAR.
First of all, thank you for the great information.
I am running into the issue you've mentioned, Sizing that cause the Headspace Measurement to Grow instead of Shrink. What would you suggest to remedy this?
Screw down the die more to push back the shoulder?
Even with the lengthened headspace measurement, my rifle can still chamber the cases just fine.
For Reference, it is a Bolt Action 223. And I'm using Onced Fired Remington Brass.
Thanks again.
if I shoot different brass with different measurements do I need to readjust the die for the different brass ..
You may have to. It's a good idea to check.
Thank you for another great video. What is your opinion on using a forester full length sizing die vs a lee full length sizing die both with the expander ball removed just to size the outside of the case. Should the results be the same or different?
I don't quite understand the ending portion. My 223 redding die is doing the same, oversizing the brass. For some of my LMT semi auto AR15 rifle, it even bump the shoulder 0.020'' if I make the die completely touch the ramp. How to solve this? For my other dies(sac for 308win 6.5cr, redding for 338LPM), none of them will give me a shoulder bump less than 5 if I set them fully contact the ramp for brass fired by bolt action rifle. Are you saying we should simply screw the die up until it gives us the desired 0.002''-0.003'' shoulder bump even though the die might not contact the ramp anymore?
Yes. There is no magic in having the die contact the shell holder. Bumping the shoulder back .003 for an auto feed should be plenty.
The die doesn't need to touch shell holder, the directions with the reloading dies are to be sure the resized brass should fit in any chamber
That's what I do, go in until the die contacts the shell holder, and actually screw it back out a 1/4 turn, and slowly go back down until I get the set back where I want it.
@@BoltActionReloading Thanks for the reply and great video. I got this firm contact impression from those shell holder's introduction video. I just got an area419 modular shell holder and the redding competition shell holder is on the way as well. What got me frustrated is both of them will do 8k-10k extra length, but still won't fix my 15k expansion.
@@willxu08 something i remember, is to always stick with same brand shell holders. It might have been on Johnny reloading bench, but using different brands can sometimes cause problems too.
Can someone please explain something to me? In the initial stages where you pull the lever down and screw in the die to make contact, I don't see how turning the die anymore controls the shoulder bump. For example, people say that a 1/4 turn more is too much and you'll get more than .002" shoulder bump, however, doesn't the shell holder BOTTOM OUT on the die, regardless?
Like, when you set the initial contact between the shell holder and die, you could then turn the FL die 1+ revolutions and it shouldn't matter because the shell holder can't push the case in any farther, since it bottoms out on the die... Please heellppp
I really hope someone answers your question because that is the exact same issue I don't understand. If I'm using a plain Forester Full Length sizing die in my RCBS Supreme press, how does the shoulder dimension change if the ram bottoms out on the base of the die?
I understand but I don’t think I could explain it very well. When you screw the die down further, past the initial point where the die and the shell holder made contact once cammed over, you’re then pushing the case further into the die setting the shoulder back further. Or think of it like this. You cam over and screw the die down until it touches the shell holder. Theoretically your case will be the same length as the top of the shell holder to the inside of the die. Now screw the die down further. When you push the case into the die it’s going to pushed up further because now there’s less distance from the top of the shell holder to the upper inside of the die forcing the inside of the die to push the shoulder back more. Hope that makes sense.
Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
I watched this trying to figure out why my RCBS 6.5 Creedmoor dies are flaring the case mouth when I size my cases. Any thoughts? Would love to see a video on this.
Hello, a little more detail if you can manage. What dies, fired brass or new, and chance you have a photo?
BAR
@@BoltActionReloading it seems like the problem may have been with the cases themselves. The problem only occurred with lapua Brass. Federal and alpha size properly. I am reloading previously fired brass. I returned my Lee dies and purchased RCBS. Had the same problem. I ended up purchasing a neck sizing die to correct the problem. So after full length sizing, I use the neck sizing die to remove the flare.
@EverydayReloadingandShooting I have resized a lot of 6.5 cm brass in lots of brands, including lapua. Have you posted a video or a picture of the flare? Any measurements on the thickness of your cases?
What press mount is your co ax mounted to that also has space for dies ? That’s awesome !
How do you remove the expander ball in a Forster FL die? I got a expander mandrel set but can't find any videos or resources to remove the FL expander ball. Thank you
..I have one FL die for .223 Rem. If 1/8 turn after contact with shell holder bumps the shoulder around 0.009" and 1/8 turn of the die is 0.009", why not just lock the die just past this (a 1/32th turn) Would that produce a 0.002-3" shoulder bump? I use a witness marks on my Lee collect neck resizing die so the die is set consistently and this working great on group size...
What is the recommended shoulder bump for a breech rifle (TC Encore)? Getting ready to start load development for one of these for the first time and not sure what rules are action specific. Thanks all the great content.
Hi Tommy, I honestly was not aware that TC made a centerfire Encore. I would assume the same .002" would be what you would look for. I have never loaded for one of those before so you may find better info somewhere else.
Man, I can’t wait till the day I know as much as you :( I’m wanting to get into reloading and don’t have anything get. Im trying to reload for a 30-40 Krag Jorgensen.
Very helpful indeed, thank you.
Glad to hear it!
Maybe you will answer my question. I have two different AR's. One chambered in 556 and the other in 223 Wylde. The 556 bumps the shoulder up by about .006 while the 223 Wylde bumps the shoulder about .003. Do I need to reload for each rifle, or is there a way to reload one size for both chambers? Thanks.
Hey 3D, I assume you are trying to say that one AR had a headspace measurement that this .003" larger than the first? If this is the case you can size them all to fit in the smallest or load for them individually, its up to you. For some its not worth the hassle and if there is a accuracy difference do you care in this application? Hope this helps.
BAR
Is removing the fire pin strictly necessary when you chamber the case in the rifle?
I typically do not, but it makes feeling the sizing difference a lot easier.
Ar platforms have been known to dimple primers. Make sure no primer is seated. It may be riding high. If you get a sensitive primer guess what.
I have done this but a week ago noticed that at the setting Sako, PMC, Lapua, GGG and few others size well, Selliers do not. They also took considerable amount of force to size, some were from my friend's new LMT. I tried chambering the cases and the bolt became very sticky.
The setting can change for different brass. (Number of firings, annealed vs not, some brands are thicker) If you measured the bump and its the same it should fit unless it was fired in a chamber that was a larger diameter or fired with too hot of a load.
Annealing first makes a big difference.
.0005 to .002 for a bolt gun is perfect any more your over working the brass depending on how your rifle is chambered and a bunch of other variables....002 to.004 for a semi auto rifle seems to be the sweet spot for not over working and reliable function
I dont understand what to do when my case stretches after running through the die? 1.56 is what it measures after I size a once fired round.
Run die down , for more camover !
This might seem
Like a silly question but if you take the expander ball out of the die, is there a measurement you set it to when you reinstall it. I noticed in the instructions for my Forster die that it said to avoid having it too high or it would crush the case, which is exactly what I did! Lowering it stopped that happening, but is it possible to go too low?
As you take the ball lower the case is less supported when the inside of the neck is sized and more likely to induce runout in the case.
@@BoltActionReloading thank you
For explaining that. You’re a wealth of knowledge and I’m learning so much from your videos. So thank you again
I have handloaded for 40 years but never really a 'precision' rifle handloader. Basically.... I need cases to fit in several guns of the same caliber. Even adjusting to the normal just touching the shell holder plus an eighth.... My Remington model 81 semi auto in .300 savage and my Remington 722 bolt gun in .300 savage do not like the same adjustment. The semi auto will eat anything pretty much and is very accurate. The 722 is tight. hard to close the bolt. Some of this may be due to me using .308 military brass for my .300 savage brass I use the military so it does not say '.308' on the headstamp. I do load a lot of handgun stuff tho.
noob question but how do you remove the expander ball on a forster full length die?
Great video👍
Thanks Kevin.
Good video and information thanks for sharing.
Maybe I'm wrong but all my dies I screw down till its touching the shell holder then back it off half a turn one of my old manuals recommended that from 1992, I use RCBS dies
Great info as always
After you get your sizing die set with a non-primed case, is it OK to then de-prim & resize the rest of your brass at the same time (in the press)?
If only components could be had. The reloading equipment companies must be having lots of extra money coming in.
My biggest mistake was bumping the shoulders on brass that wasnt fully fire formed. I never heard that you need to fire it up to 3 or 4 times before moving the shoulder is even a thing. Expensive mistake, sort of..
Just did the same thing on accident. I ran into pressure signs with a load that was perfectly fine with virgin brass and then it dawned on me what I did. I knew brass had to be fired a few times but my brain was stuck on "bump the shoulder 2 thousandths " lol
@@Dfleuryoutdoors Yep....Learning is fun. Expensive but fun.
I'm having trouble getting consistency with my shoulder bump... I'll set it with a -.002 bump and will get that on two or 3 cases, then it will jump around, -.0005, to -.007 even.... It's really frustrating me as I'm shooting for case life and I'm pretty sure it's affecting my velocities let alone accuracy. It's once fired Winchester brass and a Lee pace setter die. I'm pretty sure that I'm being consistent on my case lube, I've even tried heavier and lighter amounts of lube and that did the opposite of what I would expect...
Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Jonny, are you annealing?
@@BoltActionReloading
I was afraid you were going to say that lol.
No I am not, looking at a EP 2.0 annealing machine though because I figured that might be my issue.
@Jonny Sprague no many folks do and can't keep it consistent. Don't worry about it to start with. You don't need any complications when you are starting. What are you measuring your headspace with ans is the brass all the same lot?
@@BoltActionReloading
My wallet thanks you haha.
I'm using a Comparator like the Hornady ones. They measure consistently with the fire formed brass.
Yes the first batch I did was the same lot. The second batch had a few different lots but it was about the same as far as inconsistency.
I appreciate your advice! Thank you.
@Jonny Sprague I hate to ask 90 questions but give me every detail you can stand. Press, lube the whole shebang.
Okay, so what do you bump the shoulder to on an AR 10 ?
Try whatever works.
Not sure if you did it on purpose but your inline dab bin plate for the coax is upside down. 😬
I have been told that brass spring back will mess with your measurements. I’m considering doing a chamber casting but I don’t believe that’s even possible to do on a auto.
I normally try to set back my223 with 5k. That way all 3 rifles can run it well. But my other rifles I only have one of I normally lock and mark them for2k. But after a decade of affective reloading I've learned that annealing is very important as I can't get 2ks of shoulder setback with unaneled brass.
Dang it a never wanted to bring fire into my reloading process. I might have to start shooting factory again
Thanks for this video 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Awesome video, thank you.👍🏼🇺🇸
What’s your opinion on using Reddings competition shell holders!!!
My Co-Ax doesn't use shell holders so I don't have a good opinion.
Hows the data going with the Vihtavuori n555?
HI Walter I haven't loaded it yet. Its on the list. Lots of irons in the fire at the moment. Having it was the first step as I haven't seen any since.
@@BoltActionReloading Same here but I might get around to loading some up when my new brass get's delivered
I felt dumb enough when I went to youtube to try and find what I'm doing wrong. 5 minutes in, and I now feel even dumber than before. I can't get reloads to run reliably in semiautos. Made progress w 9mm just by dropping each rd into the chamber of the disassembled pistol. But with M1A, I can't check that way. Can't figure weather I have light strikes on the primer or if I am sho...omg a million variables...ugh
Please note : those calipers arnt accurate for reading half thou readings. So if you are getting a reading of 1.4465 , it could be 1.4465 - 1.4469 if its reading 1.4460 it could be anywhere between 1.4460 - 1.4464.
If you get some gauge blocks or gauge pins that are a few tenths from each other , you will be able to see this in action.
Just thought id point that out
Well, I am embarrassed. I have been reloading for 14 years and had no idea that a FL sizing die would bump the shoulder as much as 10/1000. That is crazy. I am going to have to change the way I set my FL sizing die.
I get all this but it frustrates me when I’m using a lee press (1st error) then Redding dies , set die to bump 2.5 thou, then next brass bumps 5 thou, next 1, next 6, next 1.5..... same brass, same firings .....talk about a way to come up with new words 🥴
Are you annealing? And if so what is your method?
@@BoltActionReloading I hadn’t on this batch (1 time fired Lapua 223) i grabbed some old brass multiple firing to measure and was doing the same thing 🤷♂️
Hey mate, have you ever set your die up and get 3 different types of out comes without changing the die
Basically I'm getting 3 outcomes
1, sized right where I want it
2, not moving at all
3, over sizing
And they are might be few and far between each different out come
But its frustrating because I can't figure out why
Might add I'm new to this haha
Hi Aaron, are you annealing and if so what method. (Also is the brass all the same headstamp?)
@@BoltActionReloading hey mate, yes I did anneal ( first time ever doing it ) using flame on once fired starline brass
Thanks for replying mate!
Hi Aaron, I would guess that your annealing is not consistent case to case and is causing the variation. Unfortunately, some folks don't want to hear that not annealing at all may be better than inconsistent results with sizing, but it's something you will have to decide. A manual flame annealing process is not as easy to pull off as some would like you to believe. I applaud you for checking multiple cases through your lot to find the variation.
@@BoltActionReloading yeah ok then, trial and error. It is a learning curve either way haha
I'll use the correct one for my load development
And I'll fire form them again and try again ...
I've just acquired my annealing machine ( ugly annealer here in Australia)
I may have jumped the gun doing such a big lot rather then test a smaller batch
Wow. Now that’s Paralysis by Analysis did you ever say how to size my brass. I’m following Mr Dillon’s instruction that comes with their very expensive dies.
Yes, you do talk really fast just like me. Slow down or you will lose your audience. Being on the radio for over 20 years, it’s something I’m always reminded of and work on… just some free advice
Use the 0.75x speed setting chief. The video is already 10 minutes long, let’s not suffer any more than we have to
👍👍
I don't disagree with your method at all... But I will pass along something people hate to hear, passed on to me by two Machine Tool Technology programs and a Gunsmithing program - Calipers are not accurate and repeatable to .001". They are useful for plus or minus .003". This is from machinists and toolmakers WAY smarter than me... As you say, though, if you have a process that works for you, keep using it. I prefer the more cumbersome RCBS gauges (screw together with a scale like a micrometer).
If you don't have a super extra special calipers they are never accurate to less than one thousands...
a dude im not bench rest shooting im hunting not 500 yards 1 in - 1 1/2 fine with me shooting under 300 yards
Go Texas 👍🏻
FJB
Turn it till it touches these bCk off 1/4 turn, start throwing the handle.
You should slow down your taking so people like me can follow along. Too fast bro 😊. I tried to hang in but you went way to fast for me to follow along
Hello, you can try to change the playback speed to 0.75.
Yea, I’m out…too fast…
I watched it again and slowed it down to 75%. I fully get it now. Couple stops at critical spots. I know what he’s doing.
For those experienced, pace was good. Good advice & everything I heard from this guy was accurate and valid. Hearing SO many people say their loaded ammo won’t fit in their gun…. Just run a few reloads with the full length sizing die run down all the way to the shell holder. THAT reloaded ammo should all chamber in your gun. If not, there’s something wrong with your gun or die. Those who are not seating the FLSD fully down on the shell holder and having problems with their ammo not allowing bolt to close on their reloaded ammo , are not following what this guy is teaching you. Review his video until you understand or better, find a buddy who actually really knows what this guy is teaching and have that person teach you at your reloading bench.
In this video, you sound like you're in a hurry. I like what you're saying. I guess I just need to back it up and replay several times. Maybe you could've just used the basic resizing die and skipped the go-gauge and the SAC tool. Nevertheless that part was impressive; you just lost me. Thanks!
Keep uploading!!! Become a YT god > Promo>SM !!
Too much jibberish to watch the full video.