Beautiful 1986 Mac Refurbishment! (But what's a BMOW Floppy Emu?!) | Part 3
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Part 3 of my Apple Macintosh Repair & Refurbishment! This has proven to be one of my most challenging repair... erm challenges. To the rescue is the BMOW - Big Mess of Wires; a floppy emulator that uses an SD Card. How retro! Wait... no. Well... Let me know what you think in the comments!
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Thanks for watching! Just to recap (ahem) what I said near the start of the video as It seems some people have missed it, I tried 3 different floppy drives, four different system disks, and two Floppy cables, all of which had confirmed working versions that were tested. None of them resolved the issue.
However as I now have a perfectly working and future proofed setup with the benefit of being able to use any virtual disk that I want, I don't have any immediate plans to dive back into this one, phew!
Tl; dr Yes I tried that & now I'm knackered lol
Your friend in retro, Perifractic 👍🕹️
So quick question. Since you confirmed that the board did have some dry solder joints, did you inspect the floppy connector on the board carefully?
Yes actually completely resoldered it though I couldn't show everything in the video ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did you try checking the other filter? I only saw that you removed one, but you can plainly see on the circuit board the chip beside it was also a filter.
Since removing the filters/chips didn't fix things, did you put them back on? I totally thought you were going to put the emulator on the internal connector. But I feel your pain on having had to disassemble/reassemble so many times, and hey at least now the machine works.
I wonder if a scope or at least voltmeter on some of those pins might have given you a clue. Maybe you did that but other than basic continuity test at one point in the video it wasn't clear.
@rifter Putting the emulator on the internal Port wouldn't actually solve anything it would only help narrow things down, but I'd already tried everything that it could have narrowed it down to. I did start doing voltage and logic probe testing but the schematic for this motherboard was almost impossible to trace the traces. One has to draw a line somewhere, literally. 👍🕹️
The keyboard cable will clean up like new with this recipe: use a medium size mixing bowl (or bucket) and fill with hot (but not boiling) water. Add a dishwasher tablet and agitate with a wooden spoon until fully dissolved. Sprinkle in the cable and leave to temper for the best part of the afternoon, stirring occasionally. On removal, rinse the cable under the cold tap and it will be squeaky clean and ready to serve! I wouldn’t recommend serving the water. Also works a treat with keyboard key caps!
I laughed so hard when you raged, it came completely out of nowhere🤣
Not my usual disposition!
I recently got my hands on a non working Macintosh Classic II, a friend from the local retro computer club took it home and cleaned the main board in some IPA on an ultrasonic cleaner and replaced the capacitors. I have never seen such a pristine looking board before and the old Macintosh works beautifully. It's just up to me to give the exterior a good clean now and It'll be a very nice machine to have in my collection.
that computer is a Ship of Theseus paradox
Nice persistence on your part. I'm confused why external floppy port works while internal apparently does not.
Me too! Though in part 1 you can see there is disk activity ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@RetroRecipes Like the 8-Bit Gov'ner said "These darn SCZI drives"
I blame the sczi drive
I have four of these sitting downstairs that I finally got a long screwdriver to work on thanks for the motivation!
Bjork would have fixed Mac this just by touching it. Enjoyed this new video. Thank you RR!
2 days outside and a yellow C128 Keyboard is as new. No issues and no re-yellowing currently. Thanks for the idea!
Hot clue wont hold a thin light wire when you need it but if holds a bad cap in place it wont ever let go. I have lifted a layer off a pcb before trying to remove a cap.
I recapped the logic board but was afraid of being shocked so I didn’t recap the analog board. Now I’m considering doing so.
So glad to see the external floppy port worked. The nice thing about the Floppy EMU is that it can work on any vintage Apple product, so you can use it to run your Apple IIe as well, just needs a different firmware
I know, and I'll be putting it to good use! Thanks Apple for keeping the ports the same 👍🕹️
So no idea on what's wrong with the internal floppy port? Can it read disks when one is inserted after you boot up from the Floppy EMU?
No, it ejects immediately. Then displays a message offering to initialize the (now ejected) disk :-/
That's a weird error. Usually if the disk isn't recognized it will give you the message, not eject the disk first.
I don't know what's left to check other than the traces on the logicboard from the internal floppy port to see if there's a damaged circuit.
If I open it up again I'll be taking a look at that and a few things. You know how it is, I've burned weeks on this machine, but it's working beautifully and actually better than a real floppy drive as it can emulate a hard disk too now, so it was time to let things rest 👍🕹️
Seeing the beautiful computer makes me sad because I had the chance to grab one at a steal years ago. There was a guy that lived in Reklaw Texas in an old house and every chance I’d get I’d swing by. He had a fully setup Mac with every accessory you could find and wanted $60. This is including the carrying case. I had no cash and couldn’t make the deal. Damn I regret that. This dude literally lived in a house full of computers, I mean you couldn’t see the walls or walk around without seeing tons of them. I only walked away with some Compaqs and Dells...
My OCD would make me fix getting the internal drive working... But hey at least you figured out a solution.
But how lol?
Retro Recipes the schematic a lot of spare time lol
"Snot of the Gods". That made me chuckle. lol
Evap-o-rust, a water based rust remover, will get rust off of that connector safely... It's safe on skin too. Soak some on a small rag and let it sit on the rusty metal (works best if you can soak the entire metal part in the solution but not a whole board lol)... For an hour at a time checking it. Amazing stuff.
Slide dog out of the way - SO RELATEABLE!
I hope Puppyfractic is alright and recovering well. Please give her a big hug from all her fans!
I look forward to the reborn art. I used to love a program called Mac Calligraphy, a Japanese style paint program.
solder on was probably the least offensive dad joke in this episode.
It was interesting to see the different things tried to get the drive working and to see the finished result
I love your screwdriver sound
me too
tweek tweek
You mean... People are... DIFFERENT!?!! 🤯
currently sun bleaching my Mac Plus, hope it goes well. The Plus is my favorite of the compact macs, bought mine at a garage sale back in '96 for DM20. recently dug it out and now I'm giving it a new life on my desk
The one I did is still looking the same one year later! 🌞
Your music is very similar to Rymdreglage.
8- bit trip!!
1:45 If at first you don't succeed, then you are not Chuck Norris.
12:16 :-)
Oh, some of my first pixeling was done on one of these. ;) Yeck, no offense but old tech turned into aquariums or shells for new tech gross me out. :O-Barf! Corrosion drives me crazy, replace when possible, I haven't seen a single company avoid it entirely despite zinc plating. No kidding, sounds like Woz, but he really does know what he's talking about Eg. discrete logic Breakout heh. Poor puppy, the donut is better than the cone though. Well you tried but that's what modern options are for. :D
15:48 a fine example of what my Mother referred to as computer language (a Family in joke)
Your "Macintosh Plus component list" (linked in your text description) is actually a slightly older and truncated version of my original list which I posted on my Google Drive many years ago. I actually updated the prices and other information only a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure how many capacitors you replaced, but there are actually more electrolytic capacitors that need to be replaced than are on that page. (That page lists only the capacitors worth upgrading even on a brand new analog board because the replacements are better than the originals.) I mention that fact in the notes in my original Google Docs file, which you can find here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132RwzC8HM5ask-BdY_31txErOCwJDSkz099GY2XLpE0/edit?usp=sharing
Many thanks. I did replace them all, not just the ones in his list. I'll put your link in the description 👍🕹️
Rule of thumb, on a Macintosh Plus (effectively all computers over 20 years old) best to replace all the electrolytic capacitors on the analog and digital boards. I have also successfully used a dishwasher to thoroughly clean analog and digital boards - remove the speaker, socketed ICs and RAM modules.
Time and temperature degrades rye electrolyte and there will be leaks - hence cleaning is necessary - with electrolyte being conductive. It’s an opportunity to replace those old 85° capacitors with new 105° capacitors to keep your computer running longer than before. The Mac Plus had no internal fan so it relied on passive cooling and that was an issue.
Well done. Great video, very enjoyable :-)
Cheers Vince! Glad you liked it. 👍🕹️
That episode definitely reminded me of my Mac 512k & Plus repairs, with wanting to throw the computers a few times. Interestingly, my very first problem was with the solder joints and actually the analog board power cable 'burned up' and was loose inside the case (Eek!). Anyway, looks good and I like that Floppy Emu. Too bad you never figured out exactly what was wrong with the floppy port, but I totally understand taking whatever victory you can and moving on. :)
Wow! What a hassle!! Totally worth it to have a fully re-capped board and all the goodies along with it. This thing will last a good while :-) Great restoration on this one! Such cool machines.
Any acid (including vinegar) should remove rust. For the shield, vinegar for awhile, then you can do a fairly easy nickel electroplating to restore the finish.
But what about the holes in it that had been eaten away?!!
If the Lego Commodore 64 is successful, you should make a Lego Macintosh!
Ooh that's tempting
I found your channel via the 3d printed Raspberry Pi video and noticed the Macintosh in the background. I recently scored a Macintosh Classic from work which used to be used in the office. It sees to work but I don’t have a boot disk and wondered where you “found” your boot disc? I know you used a floppy emu to get this running.
I figured if I couldn’t find a boot disc I would retrofit the inside with a raspberry pi or something running Linux, including replacing the screen with something that would fit.
I did my final year of high school studies on a Macintosh Classic and also used one during University, so the teenager in me want to get it running as original, but the old me would probably get frustrated with it, hence the raspberry pi/Linux idea.
Anyway, loving the channel.
Thanks for watching. There is actually a guy who makes boot disks and will ship them to you. I’m pretty sure I put the link in this video description or another one in the Macintosh series. Or have a google.
Fantastic !! Lovely seeing this old girl all cleaned up and working properly again !!
All Thanks goes to you, both for the donation and for the weeks of stress 🥵😅
Retro Recipes but she was worth it, wasn’t she ? :)
Aye she was that sir! I couldn't be happier. Have you noticed your A1200 sitting at the back yet? You can see it in the closing panning shot. ☺️
Retro Recipes yes! I saw that lovely sleek machine !! :) looks good there too !!
Spray rubbing alcohol on (cold) hot glue blobs, to detach them almost effortlessly.
If you ever need a job, my Uncle runs a Christmas Cracker factory, he needs someone witty to write the jokes.
I'll crack on with that!
It doesn't make a lot of sense as to why the FloppyEMU works whereas a real floppy drive doesn't. The only difference seems to be that your real floppy drive was connected via ribbon cable to the internal connector, whereas your FloppyEMU was connected to the external connector. That shouldn't matter but you should test your FloppyEMU on the internal connector. Steve made that easy to do. You just remove the PCB adapter on the ribbon cable of the FloppyEMU so you can then easily connect it to the motherboard connector. Please try that and let us know if the FloppyEMU still works or not. I'm quite curious. Thanks.
FUNtastic episode!! :) LOL. My Performa 630 is still performing since the 90s, but I suspect it will take the "Classic" way, one day or another, too..
I also got a Floppy Emulator for my venerable Atari Ste and it simply works GREAT!! these little inventions are worth every cent.
Cheerio.
I can’t believe that when you changed the woz chip you didn’t say “well, it wozn’t the woz”
Haha! I'll get to that next time! 👍🕹️
Oh, man, I thought you had it solved with IWM replacement. Nicely done, all the same.
Cheers! I thought I had it solved 13 times... 🤦♂️🤷♂️ But at least it's future proofed now.
4:40 THE 9 BIT GUY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Excellent video, but you missed the obvious (to me at least) joke about the Floppy Emu being a large flightless bird that has gone limp.
Glad you got it up and running!
I'm borrowing that for the next episode!
@@RetroRecipes Go right ahead.
Hey there. Great video. Really looking forward to the MacPaint recipode! Just one question though: You didn't use a normal phone cable for the keyboard, right? Because the wiring is actually different and it will cause some SERIOUS problems. Also, one suggestion: By removing the shiny connector/cover off of the Floppy Emulator, you could theoretically plug in a standard floppy drive to test it. If the floppy EMU works, the IWM is probably fine, this leaves either a bad trace between the internal floppy connector and the IWM or the other Bourns filter. Thumbs up if you read it this far. Cheers.
Good ideas! Why didn't I think of that lol! I'll report back if the floppy drive works. Though that interface may be dedicated to the emu.
And no that's a dedicated keyboard cable.
A real Mac of Theseus. :)
Worst comes to worst, can always throw a Raspberry Pi in there running a Mac emulation program - no one needs to know once the case is sealed :-)
Is the floppy cable in the right direction with red pin 1? Tested another cable? Force it with power from another source?
Yes yes yes ¯\_༼ᴼل͜ᴼ༽_/¯
@@RetroRecipes, have you checked the continuity all over the motherboard and controller board? How is the signal from the connector? It must be a bad component, bad IC or a old cold solder joint. Are the boards in several layers? Possible to test another controller board?
This guy's voice is making me experience ASMR
I could listen to you narrate anything, its great
Thank you for your kind words. Means a lot. 👍🕹
Hi! Great video, thank you! Is the spreadsheet from the 8-bit Guy available somewhere? Cheers!
Sorry I don’t think so any more
The date codes on the chips and connectors suggest that this Mac was made in the second half of 1989 rather than in 1986. #Pedanticfactic
Lol fair enough. Though I just meant the "Plus" model... #Touchefractic
This is great that you have your Mac plus working! Just think of all of the awesome things you can do with it now like... Ummmm... You could... Play with the calculator! (Full disclosure, I thought the Macs were useless back in 1986, too...)
Well they were amazing for the time but I didn't really do much more than MacPaint & MacWrite on it.
@@RetroRecipes it is just old Amiga vs. Mac rivalries popping up in my head. I still react the same way when someone says a ZX Spectrum is better than a C64. Fanboyism is alive and well! 😉
So glad you got it working, albeit with some modern intervention. Cracking vid, Christian!
Tik went through the same sort of 'girl stuff' surgery puppyfractic did. Big pup will be right and ready in a couple days. She really is a very lovely looking girl and I'm glad you're taking care of her.
Aww much love to Tik, and thank you. Puppyfractic is back on her 4 feet 👍🕹️
It look like you had one problem all along and the other changes wasn't necessary, but nice anyway. That is nrice that you found the problem and got it fixed, and the computer working properly. The Apple systems was the first I trained myself to work on, but ended up working on other systems instead due to financial considerations. Apple always was more expensive so I gave up on trying to own one, but did instead help train inmates how to operate the Mac's they had at the prison I worked at because only one person knew all about them and didn't want to train anyone else.
That difference is outstanding, you did an amazing job getting a machine working again the average person would have put to trash otherwise.
I'll take those system disks off your hands. I've got a Mac SE that I found that was missing a system disk. 😆
I'm going to hang on to them in case I get this 100% working one day however there is a website that I can't remember the name of when he will create any Mac system disk you want. Check it out.
Pretty good solution, but it won't solve a problem where you need to be able to read original disks. I don't blame you for taking a break from it all after so much work, though. Maybe someday you can try again with new information! Meanwhile, excellent work!
Thanks! Luckily it's not a problem I envisage... ☺️👍🕹️
@@RetroRecipes: As long as you have another working Mac, it's not much of a problem. ;) I have some old disks I wish I could try to recover the data from... ah well. Thanks for the great channel.
You should have used legit caps like Elna...my Panasonic CRT TV died because of some 'ChengX', 'Chong', 'CapXon' and similar caps replaced by the technician! But it lived about a year though. Hehehehe!
I love your new intro video with the Commodore Amiga.
Many thanks! BTW your account was hacked.
The realest moment is after it's all done and the monitor went off after a nudge. I've certainly invented some choice phrases when those kinds of things happen. Hopefully it wasn't fully reassembled, looks like it was though.
It was! 😱
4:05 Poor baby! You were supposed to fix the mac, not Puppyfractic!! XD
(But as Bob Barker would say, thank you for spaying or neutering your pet).
5:19 Love your musical Hakko ;)
9:15 Wait a minute... You told us what it ACTUALLY stands for.
Now I'm really confused ^_^
Awesome episode, Peri. I get fiercely nostalgic when I see the classic mac form factor. Better than any Macquarium.
The screw drivers sound effects... (IE Puppyfractic's squeaky toy sounds?) crack me up!
It's actually Mrs Recipes!
I have a fully working Mac Plus with carry case, and external hard drive. I played around with it for a couple days but got bored real quick. I would never had payed full price for one of these when they came out. I also own the same floppy emulator but use it mostly on my Apple IIe.
Fleabay auction currently $1.00 free shipping
Bid now!
Yo! Good job on that one, Starfractic. Bummer the internal floppy couldn't be a working but those EMUs are awesome. Looking forward to the follow-up video.
Thanks from Perifractic, Puppyfractic, & Floppyfractic 👍🕹️
Hmm, restoring an original Macintosh make me happy! 😇👏🏻🤩
Huh, didn't know you could customize chip sockets like that. That's some cool info.
Well, to be fair, there's not much to a chip socket.
It's literally just a set of pins that are attacked to metal that makes contact with other pins.
And since each pin is completely independent (otherwise things would short).
Well... Shouldn't really be a surprise that you can do that. XD
I have only had experience with quick and dirty electrical. Not much in the line of stuff like this.
Did you retest the floppy drive after re-soldering the power connector on the logic board? Internal floppy drive not getting power could be why it wasn't working?
I did try that yes
Maybe a case of three floppy drives were actually all bad.
what's the song used for the mid meal colour palette cleanser thing? i can't seem to find it on ur spotify album
Thanks for listening. It's the break in the middle of the song "One of those things". That song download goes to all patrons, or you can stream as you have been ☺️ 👍🕹️
@@RetroRecipes ah i think i found it ruclips.net/video/AfUBF6vMYDg/видео.html
Almost but not quite: ruclips.net/video/LfdCX6EAWQ0/видео.html (break)
Thank you! And also thank you for the additional information in your email (and fast response).
Fantastic restoration!
Just yesterday I clean out my Macintosh and it cleaned up quite well also I tried the whole putting the computer out in the sun thing and it worked out very well :D
Awesome dude.. I'll have to pull my Mac 512K out now. (The one with Steve Jobs signature inside... ) :-)
Wow, cool floppy emulator, got to get me one of those! And great results on the Mac. BTW. any tips on how to remove permanent marker from vintage Mac cases without damaging the case?
I would use isopropyl alcohol and/or WD40. Good luck!
desoldering guns are soo handy
The music is eternal bliss.
Thank you for your kind words. Means a lot. 👍🕹
10/10 for persistence Sir Fractic !
Whew thank you! 😅
My cat and I love your videos. Great to see the old girl working again- the floppy emulator seems a good decision at any rate, certainly a lot quieter. Hope all is well with you and yours, dude.
Poor spider. You evicted it from it's home
I thought it was an ant?
I think it was a spider, and it was safely relocated to the outside. It now has a pool! ☺️
I'd have removed the external floppy connector, corrosion can be conductive.
Bummer about the floppy, but at least it runs! Floppy Emus are the best. I have a Mac Plus with 4 megs of RAM setup on display in my office. I have a SCSI2SD connected into an external hard drive enclosure connected to it as well as a Floppy Emu that I use with it as well as my other vintage Macs. Cool stuff. Good job!
Great Chris! Much work but it was worth it! So at the end was the fault the floppy drive or maybe the disk? Best regards, your Doctor64!
Thank you! I have no idea and none of the experts I've consulted do too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I enjoyed the video but still have a question. After all that effort to get that floppy to boot and then going with a modern floppy drive emulator, you never really found out what was causing the floppy drive issue in the first place... speaking mostly from my own obsessive compulsive feelings... won't that drive you crazy with unanswered questions never knowing what the problem was? Or was it after all simply a bad floppy drive?
Keep in mind I am not the sharpest tack in the box when it comes to this restoration stuff and may have completely missed the obvious explanation for what the real problem was.
It does (floppy) drive me slightly crazy. At the start of the video I mention that we've tried 3 drives, 4 disks, 2 cables. Then all the stuff in this video. So it's a balance of what will drive me *more* crazy... Another 2 months on this machine, or knowing the drive inside is now retired after years of service lol. I chose the former, and you'll see why in the next video 👍🕹️
Retro Recipes Yes I understand now. Been there myself a few times. Sometimes "working" or finished is better than "perfection". As an old art director use to say to me constantly about mistakes or imperfections in our work, "Well, you can't see it from my house". Look forward to seeing the next video.
I'm not an expert and this is a newbie question, so don't be too hard on me, are solid state capacitors appropriate replacements for electrolytic capacitors? I just heard of them before. I must remind people I'm not knowledgeable on any of this, just curious, that's all.
Generally, no.
I mean, it's not that you can't do it, but capacitors have peculiarities that vary by type, and that can mess with things.
It does depend, and if you really know what you're doing (eg electrical engineer levels of knowledge) I'm sure you could work out when and if it's possible to substitute one for the other, but, usually it's not a good idea to replace something with a different type...
If you are inexperienced enough to have to ask a question like that, you should generally assume the answer is going to be no.
Because while there ARE things that you can substitute for other stuff without issue, there are just as many, if not more, where a poorly considered substitution can do bad things. (varies widely HOW bad, but... still.)
When you have a better idea of what a circuit does and the pros and cons of various component types, substitutions do become possible.
Of course, speaking of substitutions, capacitors and resistors can be swapped out for multiples. (according to the rules set out in any basic electronics textbook about parallel and serial capacitors and resistors)
So you can replace a single large capacitor with several smaller ones, or the other way around - if you calculate the equivalent values correctly, and wire them appropriately.
And the same is true of resistors.
I'm just wondering how much it cost in parts you replaced and how much time it all took. Hope it was worth it for you.
That's a good question. On this one probably a couple of hundred bucks and 2 months on and off. Although the floppy emulator guy did give me a kind discount.
Think the problem might be related to the drive themselves vs the mac itself. I still have my 1986 mac but back when i was playing with it around the mid 2000's the drive on mine failed. I spent 2 years through 6 other drives til i got one that would work with mine.
That's crazy! I'm on drive 4 now... If they're that unreliable I'm fine with the emu
I really admire your persistence! I would have kicked it out much sooner :) Nice video, really enjoyed it. Are you going to buy a new board to make the internal drive working too?
Thanks! At some point I will try again, but I'd likely never use the real floppies so it's kinda moot, but... My OCD!
@@RetroRecipes I know the OCD feeling
fresh fish? hummm!? i do remember Fred Fish. do you? thumbs-up who does.
nice fish Fred..... uh. fix Chris. Chris-fix . ow no, just Chris. nevermind. great job. ;)
Oh wow, rediscovered the lovely fella w/ the soothing voice!
He's here most Saturdays! ☺️
Must take soooo much patience. Great work! Good video. Are you and engineer? Did you work on computers as a vocation prior to the channel?
Thanks! I'm not an engineer by trade but have been working with circuit boards since I was 12 ☺️
@@RetroRecipes Amazing. great work!
Jam in a Red Rock Technologies internal SCSI SSD drive.
Before watching, I will guess “Big Man on Wampus.”
Almost!
Has your music ever been used on "How it's Made"? I swear I've heard the tune around the three minute mark on there before.
Not that I know of, though it's possible. I haven't seen it on the residuals sheet. Probably just similar style. But thank you!
That was great man, loved it. You came out of the gate on YT with some obvious skills but I have to say, the level your content is at now is outstanding. Keep it up.
Goodness, thank you so much Thomas!
it such brillant new Macintosh Plus ! as i saw in the 1st vidéo you had a big fight with the floppy ;) , if commodore had survive, may be today we had no PC but only MAC/AMIGA :) and mac system in theses years were very similar to TOS Atari 520, my first personnal computer at home, the JACKintosh ! . I really like this form factor computer as i was loving atari st/ Amiga look.
I'm sure I missed something you stated here or am not spotting anything documented in text either here or on the sales site but perhaps you could answer for me... Does the emulator work with all classic Macs? Like, could I run all the software from the emulator on a Mac SE for example? Even Lisa software and the rest?
Yes, though it's not an emulator it's an SD card drive. But yes, it supports most. See his website! Link in description 👍🕹
Thanks for another interresting stuff! Hope that Puppyfractic is already on her feet again!
She is thank you!
You need to get a 1989 Jasmine or GCC Technologies external SCSI drive to complete the setup.