ST Deep Space Nine "In The Pale Moonlight" End Monologue
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- One of the best scenes in Star Trek ever. Great stuff.
"I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing - a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant."
Garak is the reason the Dominion War was won.
You're forgetting the Klingons in the battle to retake DS9 and of course Sisko in the wormhole with the prophets.
For Cardassia!
Section 31.
Its hard to believe you made that statement.
@@TheWinterShadow He obtained information they would not have hade otherwise
and did things, as bad as the seemed at the time that changed the course of the
whole war, mainly bringing the Romulans in .
"It's easy to be a saint in paradise."
ironically a lesson that the federation learned the HARD way throughout this series. Compare Star Fleet commands reaction to the first mention of the Marquis in TNG and their complete disbelief that ANYONE would give up peace and fight to protect their homes, to Star Fleet command at the end of the Dominion war and you can hardly believe it's the same star fleet, and the truth is that it isn't but if you've watched the episodes in between you see them evolving and growing throughout the series. And nowhere do we see that growth more than in DS9, such a great series.
“Their morals, their code. It’s all a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They’re only as good as the world allows them to be.”
@@WesStacey Hence the Starfleet in picard
I think this episode also proves the point of writers who were complaining about the constraints of the "Roddenberry Box." There's nothing wrong with setting the show in a utopian future, where humanity has finally gotten its sh*t together. But conflict has to come from somewhere, or the show is going to be dull and uninteresting. I think it's possible to show serious conflict while still respecting the show's ideals.
JJ Trek is the exact opposite of Star Trek. In their shows, conflict comes from EVERYWHERE, including from problems that were supposed to be settled centuries ago (racism, drug addiction, homelessness, etc). JJ Trek is a big, dumb action series written by dude-bros, instead of by science fiction writers.
@@KneelB4Bacon Amen....
“You may have just saved the _entire_ quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan Senator, one criminal.........and the self respect of one Starfleet officer. I don’t know about you, but I would call that a bargain.”
Without doubt the greatest episode of the entire DS9 run.
Sad thing is - Garak was right.
Quark would approve.
I would call it a bargain as well lol
Imo the best writing of any trek. So underrated
In many, many ways, the most powerful of all the Star Trek series has got to be DS9. A little second season slump, but then we get plunged into one heck of a dark place that never lets up.
This is why, when someone asks, "Kirk or Picard?", I say, "Sisko."
teenygozer For real. Me too.
teenygozer Picard was ruthless like this when it came to the Borg I suppose to the point of madness like captain Ahab.
***** Yep! Ahab was a bad-ass.
***** That came later, after the Borg mind-raped him-I admit, it's good character development. But earlier in the show, Picard let Hugh go back to the Borg without having a Borg-destroying virus inserted into his programming--basically, Picard did what he felt was the "honorable" thing to do by not using an innocent to take down the Borg w/o thinking about the innocents the Borg would destroy if left unchecked. An admiral told him she'd have him prosecuted if he didn't take advantage of the next opportunity to destroy the Borg should one arise again. By that episode, my opinion of Picard was set and his zeal to destroy the Borg seems like a day late and a dollar short to me: he probably hates them not just because they took him over, but also because he knew he did wrong when he let Hugh go, and he hates himself for his inaction, too.
+teenygozer Movie picard was ret-conned to be more of an action hero than show-Picard. The way he acts in First Contact and onward really does not fit at all with his character from the show.
For First Contact to make any sort of sense for his character arc, it would've had to happen after "Best of Both Worlds" but before the episode with Hugh. A major point of the Hugh episode was Picard coming to terms with his anger and hurt towards the borg, especially for what they did to him.
First Contact not only pretends that never happened, it also amps up those negative feelings x10, to the point he is willing to sacrifice his crew to make them feel a bit more pain. It is completely out of character! It made for a more dramatic movie though, and I still get a kick out of watching it from time to time.
"The most damning thing of all... I can live with it."
Just my opinion but this was the best episode of all of the T.V. series. There are moments when you step away from your principles and beliefs out of desperation and necessity. Archer murdering three Xindi in cold blood. Kirk violating the neutral zone to get the cloaking device, Ro deserting the Federation for the Maquis. All good examples. But this was way over the line and it made the Federation more likable to me, because it showed the lengths humans will go to in order to achieve their goals.
It's like Quark said in The Siege of AR-558: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon.
kirk sucked, tos is hugely overrated. "violating the neutral zone, oh noes!" happened alot in later series...
Um... OK but I wasn't comparing one to the other. I was pointing out the other series might have brushed with Star Fleet personnel going further than they should. DS9 showed how far someone would be willing to go.
In other words, DS9 wasn't afraid to show how great and friendly and nasty and violent humans could be, all at the same time.
My favorite Quark quote about humans is the "Root Beer" scene.
Funny thing about that Quark quote was that he said that as a way to mock humanity, but he himself would end up in a situation where he had to kill someone to survive.
This. I was going to refer to the rootbeer scene as well. "Its so bubbly, cloying, and happy." "Just like the federation"" "But you know whats really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it." "Its insidious!" "Just like the federation."
The cut to black after he asked the computer to erase his log is as dramatic now as it was when I first saw it. Well done by the director and editors.
Seriously, it has the same impact from when I watched it live all those years ago... so frelling good !!
@@grendelum "so frelling good !!"
Farscape!!
@vahi37 - better believe that dren... best curse word replacements ever. Most folk have never heard the words, but they grok your meaning ;-)
100% yes.
Yep. He needed to get it said, even if the computer was the only thing listening.
But once said, he also understood how dangerous the existence of that recording could be.
"Okay, I've had my cathartic moment, got it off my chest. Now *wipe it all.* Overwrite every sector ten times."
I love Brooks’ performance. Sisko is known for being the no-nonsense captain who has to make the tough moral choices, but Brooks really brings the gravity of that to light. Sisko isn’t just a tough guy, you can see him wrestling with his conscience.
This is why for me Books and Sisko are the best Star Trek Captain. The man was real his character was real just brilliant.
@@Longs81 - Beautifully said. I totally agree.
That's why the whole personal log is great! He's very much trying to convince himself that he can live with his choices. Then, he erases the whole thing...
Next to Kirk, Sisko. is my favorite Star Trek captain. This is perhaps his greatest scene.
It took him a while but he eventually got into the character. Rewatching the pilot though and it feels like there's definitely something wrong with sisko some sort of condition. his grief feels fake his interactions are unnatural but eventually we got gems like this.
The second “I can live with it” sounds like a self revelation. He realized a part of himself was capable of doing anything and the look downward; almost as if he’s looking inward into himself and discovering this dark side simultaneously.
I've always thought the same. Like it was almost a surprise to him that he could go so far.
I thought that too, but hearing it again, it almost sounds like he's saying 'I can live with it... right?'
Sorry to disagree but the second "I can live with it" reads to me as if he's trying to convince himself that he Can Live with it.
@Randolph Worthington III I thought the same thing. So many ways to interpret it. A brilliant blend of writing, acting & directing.
That's an interesting interpretation, but I always interpreted it as him trying to convince himself.
We can all thank Gene for that vision he had, but, let's be real, he would never have let this excellent episode get off the ground.
Probably true, but at the end of the day if something works and speaks to people then it does. I give Gene full respect for doing everything who could to stand by his vision, but if cake is tasty and then you add whiskey to it and it tastes even better...
There are so many elements to DS9 that Roddenberry would not approve of. The people who hate DS9 generally do so because it was so anathema to Gene's vision of a utopian future for mankind. Me personally? I think DS9 was the most human of all the Trek, although in the beginning of the show, they used alien characters as stand-ins to represent the darker aspects of humanity. Then in later seasons, they just let it fly.
In all honesty, you could argue that this is more or less the backside of the 'utopia' Gene saw. All the work that has to be put in to keep it when something big threatens it.
If you want peace...
@@dhunter1133 I agree it's why it my favourite of all the star trek series, it more relatable and the story telling is better as well
The way I see it, Deep Space Nine shows life on the space frontier. The Federation characters want to uphold the values of the Federation and its morals. However, as Sisko found out, life was not going to allow them to do it.
"So then I went back to my office... and there... was a new casualty list waiting for me. People are dying out there every day! Entire worlds are struggling for their freedom and here _I am_, still worrying about the finer points of morality. No, I...I had to keep my eye on the ball! Winning the war, stopping the bloodshed---those were the priorities!"
Like... Wow...
That line is more of the heart and soul of this episode than the clip was
@@jaydee1024 💯
_THAT_ was a command decision. This scene is just aftermath.
"Principles are dreams that come easily to those with a roof over their heads and a pillow underneath their heads, but what do dreams mean to those who can't even afford to sleep?"
@@SizdothyxDamn, that's a good quote.
Sisko was so much better when he shaved his head and got fucking crazy, who else thinks so?
This is something I can get behind.
Aka The Heisenberg Effect
It's a great choice by the DS9 team tbh. When he was clean shaven with hair he had a bit of a boy scout look to him, and it's obvious they wanted to go in a darker direction with the character than just making another Picard. The shaved head and goatee changes the shape of his face and gives him a slightly more sinister appearance, matching the more radical, shades of grey type of captain that we see in Sisko rather than boyscout Picard, space gigolo Kirk, action hero/punching bag Archer or mother figure Janeway.
That he was replaced with his mirror version?
Yup.
“Because I can live with it.
I can live with it...”
The best lies are the ones we convince ourselves are true. That momentary edge of doubt in his voice at the end of the speech shows that even he’s not fully convinced by so great a lie.
It's so human a thing, to rationalize.
In this situation, he has the benefits of numbers; it is the best solution to limit loss of life and achieve the iconic federation goal of peace.
But.
But. He had to go outside of the same moral tenets of the same society he ostensibly serves and protects.
It's the classic corruption trap.
If you know logically what will ideologically serve both ends, so long as ideology is malleable... You can do whatever it takes.
But were that the case, in extremis, what good is the ideology?
The in universe question I think this raised that has never been answered is in the same situation what would the Vulcans have done? The decision was logical, the risks calculated, the outcome predicted... What kept the Vulcans from being this cold and pragmatic?
Or is it humanities hubris; our conviction that once concensus is reached, no option is unavailable.
Is it our aspirations for a greater good that allows us to be as monstrous as the worst despot... So long as it serves a better end.
Peace in our time.
People think this is the episode that puts the lie to star treks Noble aspirations of societal evolution.
I wonder if merely shows what that would actually look like.
@@Leisurelee53 Innocence lost, sort of. But in terms of story telling, character development... what's more interesting than your favorite character that you suddenly can't like so much anymore?
The glass he can't quite drink. The symbolism and the acting. Amazing! This level of writing never returned to the franchise. More than 20 years later, we are still waiting...
so true
Loved how he put it down. Brooks is excellent
He can't quite live with it, but he'll learn
@@birkinsmith88 Live long enough and you’ll find yourself saying “I *can* live with it” at least once.
Strange new worlds is good. But discovery? Never really has any character development or stakes.
Avery Brooks deserved an Emmy for this episode. What a performance.
The acting with the glass is fantastic in this scene. Every time he goes to finish his toast and confirm that he did the right thing he stops himself. It's a really good way of telling the audience that he doesn't believe a word of what he's saying when he says he can live with it.
IMHO I think it shows more his disguist for himself, the lost self respect. Drinking to lying, cheating and murder. He can do those things if they are required and he understands that, but he does not have to like it to drink a toast to it. Same as he didn't drink a toast over the dead Cardassians on Cardassia Prime at the end of the War with Martok and Admiral Ross.
I like how he never takes a drink out of that glass through the entire scene. It shows the audience that Sisko is making this decision freely in his right mind. He is not being controlled, influenced, or out of his right mind, he is choosing to be a monster himself.
which makes no sence why the Prophets chose him LOL
Also probably because if they'd be doing retakes, they'd have to refill that glass :P
Atnas I know. I'm just trying to find deeper meaning that may or may not be there.
***** Because the prophets are just aliens who know the future and what has to be done and probably don't care about small stuff like this.
Truett Edgell False. Sacrificing one life of a senator and the conscience of one Starfleet officer is undoubtedly a minute price to pay to save the entire quadrant.
I love how the entire recording segments throughout the entire episode is just erased at the end. They existed solely for the purpose of Sisko dealing with his choices and actions. Such an amazing episode!
WELL SAID!!!
This wasn't Sisko's personal log, this was his confession, a confession that no one can ever hear, but he needed to say it anyway.
Garak got onto a guarded Romulan ship. Think he can't hide a recording device in Sisko's quarters? Insurance against betrayal.
One of Sisko's / Avery Brooks' best acting moments.
Yes!
That turn at one minute in, he just became Hisenberg.
Great actor.
I hope the Romulans don't check the Recycle Bin otherwise Sisko is screwed!
It's a faaaaake!
I'm sure this was heavily encrypted by even Starfleet's standards then encrypted to normal Starfleet standards and then deleted and shredded to Starfleet standards (which today sensitive information in the government is completely destroyed beyond any recognition) I'm sure the same thing would exist in that time period that would make this file impossibly retrievable by almost any means.
+OhManTFE really late reply but this is exactly why I wanted a show(or movie) to follow up DS9 the what if the Romulan Empire found out, I mean they wouldn't find this recording of course but there was others who knew what really happened and under the right conditions they would of revealed the truth I am sure, I also wonder what the Klingon's would of done with the information as well(it was not very honorable).
I think there are actually two ways this has been continued. In one scenario, this revelation leads to war with the Romulans. In the other, the Romulans are actually impressed because it's the kind of thing they would've done.
I don't know if impressed is the right phrase but I understand what you say with that. I do not think it would lead to war, but I do think they would use the information to pressure the Federation/Starfleet to give them more well whatever it is they want. And if Starfleet does not give in I feel like the information getting out would fracture the federation still don't think it would lead to a war(esp right after the dominion war) but there would for sure be trust issues and then I could see the romulans inserting spys etc to stir up trouble
I like when he repeats "I can live with it" like he's still trying to convince himself. He almost says it like a question.
Great delivery.
What's interesting, is that he deletes it, having never drunk from the glass. He wilfully retains full awareness of what he has done. He may have deleted the log entry out of civil self-preservation (the architect of an assassination would be considered a war criminal regardless of who wins);
however theatrically, it symbolizes his shutting off his own attempts at rationalization & self-justification. He has deliberately done what he knows to be wrong, evil, even mostrous, and he refuses to deny that he has raped his own conscience.
This is still my favorite Captain's Log in all of Star Trek.
Agreed
Shame it's deleted.
Supplemental
What Captain's log? lol
this 2 minute scene is better than anything Abrams did in 2 movies
absolutely. this has substance, meaning, and perspective. Abrams has lens flares more lens flares.
Why no EMMY best captain
More character, plot, and depth than all 2 seasons of STD.
@@captainspire9094 what is STD
@@vincentcushnahan5292 The abbreviation for Star Trek Discovery
The best ep of Deep Space Nine. This is exactly why DS9 is beloved by so many. It dared to show us that the 24th century isn't all sunshine and happiness, and that there is a dark side to all things. I think its also why so many like Sisko, because he was more willing to break rules to accomplish a greater good, because he knew they were necessary. You'd never find Kirk or Picard make such bold statements as he does in this episode.
Kirk and Picard both broke the rules willingly.
bullss21 but not to the extent that Sisko did.
bullss21
they did but, the show treated their action as being 100% right. DS9 showed our heroes doing very ambiguous acts and dealing with personal and/or professinal consequences.
bullss21 Picard never would have allowed himself to become an accessory to murder. I mean, the guy refused the solution that would have ended the Borg threat: Turning Hue into a "bomb" with an unsolveable geometry that cannot be analyzed.
VenomStryker
picard wasn't the type of leader they needed to win the dominion war, sisko was.
The last "I can live with it?" is so poignant
"... i *CAN* live with it ... " it's like he's almost pleading with himself. May we never find ourselves in such circumstances.
Avery Brooks certainly had a capacity for bombast, but he could also do a lot with very little. The way he expresses growing self-doubt with each repetition is just so, so good.
Always seemed like he was trying to convince himself..
"....It better be." - Salieri
What really gets me is that "so" at 0:30, with a broken voice. It gives me shivers. It just feels so real. He's breaking the 4th wall as an actor but actually we're just listening to his inner monologue as if we were him, as if we were coming to terms with the situation ourselves together with him. This is just a masterpiece of a scene, not just the amazing delivery from Avery Brooks, but also the writing and direction and the rest.
Ds9 never ignored the reality of the big decisions. Must've been loads of military commanders seeing this episode that could relate to what the Sisko is saying.
Yeah for sure I know the decision many of my Commanders made. This is what it boils down too. One of things that make it realistic though is that he doesnt feel good about it sure it was necessary but it wasn't done lightly.
THE best monologue in the whole franchise
In the Grim Darkness of the Star Trek Universe, there is Captain Sisko.
I used this clip to open my presentation on military ethics to my students... It truly set the tone for the block of instruction. Know what you are getting yourselves into I concluded the brief following some gray scenarios on right and wrong. There is so much truth to this scene. Hard decisions need to be made, then we learn to live with them. Fantastic scene, amazing series. Thank you for posting this.
That is truly brilliant that you use this episode to teach the troops. I think it's one of the best episodes of ANY series... and I think Siege of AR558 is another good one for the troops, its closing scene is equally powerful.
Kira: "today's casualty report has just been posted."
Sisko: "how many?"
Kira: "including the troops at AR558? 1,730."
Sisko: "1,730..."
Kira: "It's a lot of names."
Sisko: "they're more than just names. We have to remember that."
+Firefox13A Sisko is an interesting character. My favorite quote of his is actually quite contrasting to this one: "We don't put civilians at risk, or even potentially at risk, to save ourselves. Sometimes that means we lose the battle, and sometimes our lives. But if you can't make that choice then you can't wear that uniform." I come from a deontological culture and I also do not believe that there is ever a justification to harm an innocent life. It does not matter if we lose or die, I would rather die with honor than live without.
+Mez Kitsu "Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters" - Javik, Mass Effect 3
Jorge Torres If their answer is no then they are selfish and I do not care for them. An individual who values his life over his honor will do anything to hold onto life, even commit terrible atrocities. But those who hold honor to be of the most value will do anything to uphold it, even giving their own life to do so. Therefore, those ghosts who have died doing what is right would say that honor is a great thing. It is only those ghosts who are selfish who would say otherwise.
+Mez Kitsu For me, there is no response because ghosts aren't real. But even if they were, fighting honorably lead to a dead civilization (not that the Protheans could've won underhandedly, but winning isn't really the point here). Honor is useless to the dead, and the dead are useless to the living. I'm not saying Honor is bad though, clearly having a good moral compass is a good thing. But as far as war is concerned, knowing when to sacrifice your honor can lead to a better outcome for your side. Divining when such a thing is warranted is the hard part, and preventing yourself from doing it again (for lesser reasons usually) can be even harder.
Sisko was honorless here, and yeah there were selfish reasons for doing so. But I still would not think Sisko's honorless actions here were because he was being selfish. Being both honorless and mindful of others are not mutually exclusive ideas. Our world is much more complicated than that.
Well said. As a corolloary, this is also why DS9 is the MOST optimistic of all the star treks. The people in early TNG were so superhumanly noble that they were more alien than anything else on the show. DS9 showed that people would still be flawed, would still have demons, but that even these flawed people could make something like the federation....and keep it safe.
Six year later, I just want you to know, you hit the nail on the head.
I feel like its towards realistic, but i love this more than anything. Gives me that game of thrones vibe. And to say star trek did it first.
Enterprise and it's crew are the idealists. They are the people you want representing your star spanning empire in diplomacy and first contact. But they are not the people you want running it.
Well said
I've said recently with all the new "trek" that DS9 is the best and most realistic of any series. It's not black & white and in fact hardly ever is. It is a murky sea of gray we all must swim through to live. That is life, not the simplistic utopia people believe Star Trek to be.
I remember when this episode first aired. A week later, TV Guide gave a shout-out to Avery Brooks in the Cheers & Jeers section for his performance.
Without question. Best stand alone episode of Star Trek ever.
not stand alone. part of on going arc
Sisko, maybe the most underrated character in Star Trek.
This was by far the best episode in the entire Star Trek franchise. Deep space 9 was the best series.
best speech from the whole star trek franchise
One of the best monologues of all time.
Ajes Yes it was a better screen than in many movies scenes!
@@terryrodbourn2793 Ah, Picards speech in the observation lounge in First Contact was great aswell.
Not forgetting when Sisko confronts Garak, only to be told some harsh home truths.... 'and the self respect of one Star Fleet Officer. I don't know about you but I'd call that a bargain'.
@@42ZaphodB42 it really was but it was out of character for John Luke Pikard
This fits His character
I am an Army Veteran the first time I watched this scene, 20 years ago I understood the meaning and sacrifice, Captain Sisko had to make during the war. There is no black and white. We only have many shades of grey.
Fuck you for your disservice.
@@jaybee2402 Imagine being so stupid you can't even be a crayon eating marine. That is you.
@@jaybee2402 Dude, you are an embarrassment even by the standards of internet trolls.
@@Shamino1 You realize you've handed me ammo, pun intended? 😁
I thank you for your service and just ignore that troll. A few other good Captain Sisko eps imo are for the uniform and the the maquis when he finds out his old friend lt cmdr Cal Hudson is one if them. Only thing that sucked about ds9 is that they didn't have a follow up film dealing with the dominion that disappeared when the entered the wormhole. Or even a whole break away faction of the Jem'Hadar. That would wage a second war on the alpha quadrant.
This is why I love DS9. I wanted a series where the Federation's high minded ideals came up against tough decisions. I am still blown away by the writing on the series.
It was easy for them to keep their idealistic morals, when they were facing weaker opponents that couldn't hope to prevail in a protracted war against them. The Dominion was a completely different monster. They were just as large, if not larger, than the Federation, and were far more militaristic. Faced with such a foe, it's no wonder the Federation was push to the edge of its founding principles.
In an interview with the writers and producers, it was stated that the entire darker tone of DS9 was deliberate. They said in TOS and TNG that they had shown the vision of Paradise that Gene wanted humanity to strive for. DS9 was to show what the price at times to keep paradise was for both the Federation as a whole and for individuals like Sisko.
@@hisdudeness8328 But Section 31
@@Littletime839 Every successful superpower has a successful intelligence arm. Look at the origin of the term 'Enterprise', it hails from the formation of the Spanish Armada, the greatest fleet that never sailed.
As he said in the Starfleet Coup arc, "It's easy to be a saint in Paradise"
This series was not popular during it's original run because it showed the dark side of the federation, and the parts of the universe that were very far from the shining heart of the galaxy. It's characters weren't all besties, and everything did NOT reset to zero at the end of each episode. It was NOT what Trekkies thought they wanted in a Star Trek series. It was not up-beat, and optomistic, and utopian.
As time has passed however, people have come to realize this was some of THE FINEST writing ever executed for a Star Trek series, and the cast turned in some of the most compelling performances in the history of Trek [See above clip for a prime example - This is by far my favorite episode of ALL Star Trek].
Sisko was, in my opinion the BEST Captain in Trek, Balancing devotion to duty, with the fortitude to "Get it Done". I cringed EVERY time they introduced a Kid into Trek, it was ALWAYS done badly, but Avery Brooks had a Chemistry with Cirroc Lofton that made their father/son relationship sincere, and believable.
Deep Space 9 was Trek done right, and it had the grit and realism that the newer Treks today are reaching for, and falling so very far short of.
BEAUTIFULLY SAID!!!! Thanks for sharing.
But Kira thought of Ezra as her baby so there was some light in this dark show and it's as if the entire run foreshadowed this. The only thing Kira lives for is her broisheness, her bros and her little Ezra. And she was better than Jazdia in my opinion
Well then I count myself in the minority of Trekkers who started out with Kirk in the 60s and very much enjoyed DS9.
@@ninjabearpress2574 TOS was very much an outer space western, A lot of things were established, but not yet thoroughly developed.
It was TNG that painted the federation as this highly regimented Utopian society.
Personally I found that vision to be insidiously restrictive, and nowhere like TOS.
The Federation of TNG was almost Orwellian.
I think Trek needed a show like TNG that showed the rotten side that they tried to not show in the brochures.
Section 31 was probably the crowning creation of TNG.
If you have Utopia, Just how far are you prepared to go to protect it?
@@Voodoomaria To DS9 and back.
"And if I had to do it all over again...I would."
Gives me the chills every time.
This really does show that at the end of the day, Sisko is probably one of the most Machiavellian Starfleet officers outside of Section 31. He knows that the events which led to the Romulan entry into the war and his part in those events is wrong. Morally wrong, it goes against everything the Federation stands for. But he also realizes, that with the war against the Dominion in full swing, the old rules no longer apply. Everything has changed, the Federation is no longer a diplomatic, exploration and scientific alliance, it is a military force, and in war, you can't afford to be nice. In war, the ends really do justify the means. Goddamn it I love Sisko.
al Mamlūk And having the ends justify whatever means is why I love and hate this episode so much. It's a mirror to the kind of moral gray areas that BSG also explored. Sometimes we need to know what lies at the bottom of the slippery slope we're about to walk down, so we can take another path instead.
especially what he did against the Maquis
And Captain Ransom
They tasked him that outpost and by god was he going to get the job done.
This explanation here, could have been or should have been the start of the moral decay and the enlightened attitude (like people using profanity) of the Federation seen in Star Trek Picard.
Discovery and Picard don't get it.
This is how you do subversive/dark Star Trek right.
The rare truly dark moment in an overall positive setting, which is the general tone of star trek, a faith in a better future for humanity. While new trek is just another run of the mill grimdark story for the edgy kids.
@@thomac And edgy by inserting f-bombs. 90s trek NEVER had to rely on swears to be fun and exciting.
@@FireLordJohn3191 and stupid gore violence, and cyberpunk bars, oh well. Discovery was canceled!
Bestest captain. This is what happens when you send a person into uncharted territory, where the border is etched with the warning "Heer Be Dragones," and an outpost whose very existence is considered an embarrassment. People are needed with intestinal fortitude, a highly developed sense of morality, and a low opinion of standard ethics.
Agreed! Sisko is the best captain and DS9 is the best Star Trek series to date with it's complex characters and political intrigue, not to mention the most mature of the lot.
DS9 was more real of a future to me because of Sisko.
I compare DS9 to the cringe that is TNG episode, "The Last Outpost," where Riker talks about the Ferengi - right in front of them, no less - as a less evolved version of humankind. TNG, in the beginning, was an exercise in showing how morally superior mankind was to every race they encountered. But as Kirk said in ST:V, "I need my pain." Our darker natures are an intrinsic part of the human condition; DS9 embraced that, which is why it's more real.
Watching this again, I think the most striking parts of Brooks’ performance is him staring right at us as he’s delivering this log entry. Simply awe inspiring
It's always been, explore the unknown: Kirk. Settle the known space and keeping it together, Picard. Survive a trip where you are stuck long ways from home: Janeway. But if you are dealing with the Wild Wild West and have to carry out a war: Always will be Sisko!
My two favorite DS9 episodes: This one and “Nor the Battle to the Strong” - when Jake Sisko learns about courage. Magnificent writing in both.
This two minute monolog underscores perfectly what made Deep Space Nine different from all other incarnations of Star Trek.
Deep Space Nine was about people. It explored the concepts of good and evil in a truly compelling way. It was not afraid to depict heroes as having major flaws. In fact, the stories made clear that what makes a hero isn't their perfect devotion to good, but instead it is their ability to not be ruled by their own personal evils.
"...what makes a hero isn't their perfect devotion to good, but instead it is their ability to not be ruled by their own personal evils."
Effing quotable. THX, that's going in my notebook.
I listen to this monologue whenever I am in a moral or ethical impasse. Brilliant stuff.
Me too Bro...Sometime we got to make the hard decisions. Decisions that paint us dark. But, if that is what it takes to win in the end...then so be it!
I love everything about this monologue!
It fits so perfectly with the Sisko character. His motivations are altruistic and justifiable and practical. So very human!
And deleting the log entry at the end really accentuates how committed he is to making it all worth the sacrifice.
This little scene has *SO MUCH SUBSTANCE* that even if you watch it over and over again, it'll keep giving you goosebumps.
This is why the answer to the old "Kirk or Picard" question is... SISKO.
it's actually "picard or sisko"
Agreed! This is why Sisko is the best Captain. He was willing to walk in the darkness to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And sometimes that means that morals have to be set aside.
Eric Knight
Isn't that the exact same reasoning Sections 31 uses?
No matter if you agree with the idea of getting your hands dirty for others to keep theirs clean or not, this episode perfectly showcases how and why a person would do so. It makes the act relatable, understandable.
It also portrayed how things can quickly spiral out of control step by step but seeming as if they aren't.
yes, it is also why both the whole of DS9 and section 31 do fit in the Roddenberry vision, it shows the humans struggling to survive the harsh space through diplomacy and if needed war, the struggle to keep paradise clean was very needed after Roddenberry got a little delusional late in his life
I do hate the people who adhere only to the Roddenberry ideal, there was a reason the quality of all series except TOS and TAS went up after he got kicked upstairs, he was a bit of an idiot, there is a reason why Rick Berman is the least liked showrunner, he adhered to the Roddenberry ideals and his works suffered because of it, every time Roddenberry was not involved but actually good writers were the characters gained a lot of depth and shades of grey, but they were always within the safety of paradise, even after Wolf 359, except the survivors of that fight, sure paradise got more distant but most pretended it was still there
"I can live with it"...
Yes it's your job to live with it.
The thing with The Pale Moonlight" is you're not sure how it all ended and it stayed mysterious till the very end which is also why in my humble opinion, this episode is the best of all and by quite a few light years.
When I was a kid, I used to buy DS9 season 6 and STVOY season 4 on VHS cassette every 4 weeks in the UK. I saved up my monthly allowance just to buy those cassettes. IMO two of the greatest seasons of TV drama ever committed to film. I didn't waste my money.
This is the best episode of Star Trek. This is one of the episodes that sealed the deal for Sisko for me. He became my fav Captain.
Perhaps one of the boldest episodes Star Trek I ever saw... placing the hero in an unenviable situation, and actually going through with it.
That last shot blew me away!! Yup... my favorite Trek episode ever, and I grew up with and love the original. This was a great evolution of the franchise.
Kirk or Picard?
Trick question. Sisko.
I’m reminded of something a wise Sith Lord once said “to believe in an ideal, is to be willing to betray it.”
This is why Cisco is the best captain in the Star Trek Universe. He uses almost any tactic to win. And DS9 is my favorite of the Star Trek series, because it depicts humanity as being advanced but as Quark said to Nog, "Let me tell you something about hewmons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time, and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes. You know I'm right, don't you? Well? Aren't you going to say something? ",
"because I can live with it...
...I CAN live with it"
This is such a chilling ending. The way he is almost convincing himself and suppressing his guilt for going against his beliefs and the beliefs of the federation.
He is trying to use his success as a valid reason for doing what he did but in his heart he knows that the means don't justify the end.
As he stated earlier in the episode "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
Nah, he's good with it.
"Computer, erase that entire personal log."
And the screen goes straight to dark.
Absolutely awesome direction.
I was in high school when this first aired, I'd lost interest in DS9 before the Dominion war arc started. Back then I don't believe I would've appreciated it for what it was, I'm glad I got to see It for the first time as a (more or less) mature adult.
I always wonder... is he convincing himself? Or... realizing he doesn't need to?
It's also pretty ambiguous because it leaves it up in the air whether or not he convinced himself of it or if he couldn't.
The means do justify the ends - what he did was the right thing to do.
every once in a while this episode comes to my mind and I come back to youtube to find it again..
Shivers! Anyone else???
Yes. To the core
More shivers when the Romulan said it's a fake! Never felt anything like that before or after, the first time through was pure shivers didn't expect it at all! Just one of the best episodes in tv history and I don't even think it even won any award should have though!
every time bro
I *really* regret hating this show and not giving it a chance for years, it's now one of my favorite shows and in my opinion the best Trek series in the entire franchise
It takes a real person to admit that. You sir are to be applauded. Warp speed!!
You found it in the end it’s all good man!
Truth is truth
I never really liked star trek, I had sampled it multiple times and it never stuck.
Then I started seeing ds9 around mid June, and this legit is one of my favorite Sci fi shows in a long time.
The star trek mythos mean nothing to me, so this one stands on its own as just good.
@@RitzyBusiness You picked the best to start with, honestly a lot of the "Trek Mythos" is wildly inconsistent (and outright abandoned/warped in the modern shows) and some series like Voyager bounce around in quality episode to episode, DS9 was by far the most serialized and fairly consistent in it's tone/lore throughout, if you decide to give some other Trek shows a chance I'd recommend just watching like highlights and top episodes. There's practically no reason to force yourself through the first 2 seasons of TNG for example when you can just watch "Inner Light" and "Darmok" that shine on their own, some great TNG episodes that feel like they're DS9 episodes are "Chain of Command" part 1 and 2 and "The High Ground"
This episode encapsulates so much about what DS9 was to the Star Trek universe. For all the good and bad it represents. Love this damn show so much
The realization in his voice when he says "I CAN live with it..." is so good.
I love how after he says he can live with it he then uses closed gestures such as crossed legs and arms. Such a nice small touch.
Acting, you don't see it anywhere anymore.
I haven't seen anyone talk about this so is like to say this is one of the things I love most about ds9: it posed difficult questions and diddnt give the viewer an answer, instead just leaving you to wonder what is right in a situation with no nice solutions. I think the reason it works so well is that the show, at it's best, isn't really about the dilemma itself but is more about how the characters deal with these dilemmas and the choices they make as a result, such that the episode works regardless of weather you agree with what they did or not because you understand *why* they did it. And it probably goes without saying that this episode is the probably the best example of that in the entire series.
Yes. The show was built upon a foundation of characters with strengths and weakness, and perspectives that will tend to clash with each other, and then put them in situations where no perfect answer is possible so we, the audience, can watch them struggle.
While I understand why others may favor a different captain, to me Sisko is 75% as cerebral as Picard and 75% as swashbuckling as Kirk, and that is a winning, and more human, combination.
Over 20 years ago I told someone that I would prefer to be Kirk, I would rather serve under Picard and I'd be most interested in writing stories about Sisko.
Being Kirk would be cool with all the adventures and encounters with sexy women.
Serving under Picard would be great because of his moral certainty, his inability to be compromised and because his days as Captain of the Enterprise seemed so safe and ideal.
But if I had to choose who I wrote scripts or stories about it is easily Sisko because he is easily the most complex and layered. The most human. Husband. Father. Widower. Husband again. Father again.The tragedy of Wolf 359 have him a sense of tragedy that Star Trek leads never had previously or afterwards. His growth from a commander to a captain, from non-believer to a man who became comfortable playing the role of a spiritual leader, from an idealist to a realist, is arguably the best character development in all of Trek. From dealing with doubtful Bajorans, treacherous Cardassians, the conflict with the Maquis and Eddington, the arrival of the Dominion, the war with the Klingons, the strife among Starfleet in how to keep the Federation safe, the galactic war brought about by the Dominion, the exposing of Section 31 and his relationship with the Celestial beings known as the Prophets, he easily had more to deal with on his plate than any other leading officer in the Trek shows and films. All the while raising a son as a single dad to boot. What a well rounded character.
God, we’ll never have Star Trek like this again.
This is a masterclass in acting. Brooks doesn’t get the recognition he deserves. It’s quite Shakespearean in his delivery. I love the little details like how he never touches his drink to show how his decisions aren’t affected by substances
I saw him perform Othello in Washington, DC, in 1991 or 1992. Andre Braugher played Iago - the first time a Black actor portrayed that character. Brooks portrayed Othello so intensely, you felt what the character was feeling. Both Brooks and Braugher were outstanding!
Meanwhile in Discovery: _"Lol, we've killed them with fire, it was fun to hear them scream, now let's find something else to kill."_
What is Discovery? There hasnt been a proper star trek show since Enterprise. You must be referring to the nihilistic low grade woke slop calling itself Trek now, Star Trek is dead, so is Star Wars. The radleft and the jews at BlackRock are running every popular IP into the ground and leaving it a soulless husk of what it once was and turning whats left into skinsuits for modern propaganda.
Never again will we get a Star Trek show like DS9. Dark yet thought provoking.
The Borg would not dare invade the quadrant while he was there... “we are the borg. Resistance is...(He’s gone right?) futile...by everyone still here...”
LOL
“Resistance is…ohfuckohfuckohfuck he’s here”
Borg pick on Picard - Mopes and drinks Earl Grey tea.
Borg pick on Sisko - Designs a ship whose entire purpose is to kill Borg
When the truth finally comes out and the Romulans realize that Captain Benjamin Sisko may just have a little Romulan in his blood.
It still pisses me off that "Trials and Tribble-ations" from season 5 is rated 0.1 point higher on IMDB over this masterpiece, the best episode of not only DS9, but the entire Star Trek franchise.
Red Tuesday I think that is only because of how it was filmed and considering the technology at the time that was a impressive feat as far as special effects go.
close second for me, still my favorite episode of all time is "The City on the Edge of Forever"
Take slow deep breathes. Think of nice things....
The Tribbles one WAS good I have to admit.
@@ramibaghdadi1255 truly the best episode of TOS.
This guy is absolutely Shakespearen. His voice, his energy, everything. ❤ he brings EVERYTHING to this role.
That's why I call it Sisko's soliloquy.
He played othello
He's a theater-trained actor.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin So is Patrick Steward. Who was raised in England. And was knighted. If anyone gets the title of Shakespearean actor, it should be him.
ruclips.net/video/rRoR-x2WOu0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/8205kJSig4A/видео.html
I am honored to have worked with Mr. brooks on the classical stage.
And this is why Sisko is my favourite Captain.
"Computer. Erase that entire personal log." Low-key possibly the most powerful (the most telling, certainly) line in the entire series
is it bad that i can recite this entire scene?
gotta thank my dad for moulding me into a trekkie
Bad? No. You nave an invite to the "welcome to the fight" party.
When someone discovers the greatness that is DS9: "THIS IS A HUGE VICTORY FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!!"
same here, Thanks pop!
Qapla'
Need tips from your Dad. My sons are disappointing me. But there’s still time...
This is the best writing of any Star Trek episode! So amazing... I still get chills listening to the monologue Siko gives at the end....
Sisko was not confessing he wanted to try and justify his actions to himself but wanted to feel the guilt of his actions but the more he spoke and spilled his conscious, he learns that it’s not eating him, he knows what he did and he can in fact live with it losing no sleep
Ds9 has the best acting of all the Star Trek shows.
Anthony Dolgos, Patrick steward set the bar very high and the rest met the bar and some raised it higher.
Absolutely!!!
Overall, it may well...
Amen! Brooks, Robinson, Coombs especially, but all of them, really.
Back then, when Star Trek was absolutely incredible.
And yet, ironically, had very vocal detractors complaining every step of the way. How time changes things, I guess.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin True fans are very passionate this is true for every popular ip not just Star Trek. and yet those same fans have almost completely checked out from these new woke trash Trek shows that are being made now, they all have horrible audience ratings and super low viewership.
I'm always going to choose Picard, but this is honestly the best captain moment in all of Star Trek.
You can choose what which ever you like, but the fact is DS9 had superior writing, characters, villain's and a overall superior narrative compared to every Trek out there. Even DC Fontana considered DS9 to be peak Star Trek, yet for some reason normies have been allowed to make the inferior TNG the favorite and for reasons that had nothing do with actual quality, mainly because DS9 wasn't a caricature of the original series like TNG was...
Sisko was a Commander of a shipyard where he personally helped design the Escort class (warships) for the Federation, the Commander/administrator of DS9, a seasoned diplomat, The emissary of the prophets, a supreme fleet commander, was also shown to be a competent military strategist & just as effective as a Ship captain, was a better warrior in ground combat than that sissy Picard, Lacked all of Picards naïve utopian shortcomings, could be ruthless when it was needed and didnt let the prime directive get in the way of what needed to be done which made him a more realistic character & he saved the Federation and the Alpha quadrant TWICE.
The best end monologue I have ever heard. Worthy of being compared to William Shakespeare. It takes great courage to tell the truth when everything inside of you is telling you to lie. Probably why I am somewhat courageous.
'In the Pale Moonlight' is one of my favorite DS9 episodes. I loved the huge battle scenes between Federation and Dominion fleets, but this one is above the rest.
DS9 did what no Trek did before it. True character development. Sisko's log at the end really made the episode and the tone dark tone the series took.
In Voyager Janeway was too concerned about the Prime Directive to bring her crew home. Here you realize if Sisko were in that position he would do whatever it took to get back home.
Sisko's speech justifying his action to order Garak to assassinate the visiting Romulan Senator so the Romulans would've joined the Dominion War is classic. Proves that when necessary, any Starfleet officer - not just those affiliated with Section 31 - would've done some unethical things for the good of the Federation and could've slept at night without thinking about it.
Except...Sisko doesn't order Garak to assassinate the senator. Sisko naively thinks that Garak's sources are good enough to manufacture the fake evidence, and Garak simply allowed him to go on believing that while doing what he knew would be necessary. This goes a long way in explaining why Sisko is so angry with himself: not only did he betray his principles, he allowed himself to be manipulated by a former intelligence officer and never saw it coming.
@@dhunter1133 Here's the thing: Sisko saw it coming. He knew that if it wasn't this, Garak would do something else. He did so to wash his hands of the dirty business that was going to happen. He punches Garak, but does not put him on trial. Sisko is punching him because he can't punch himself for doing what he did. And both Garak and Sisko know it.
Holy Crap, I know this scene almost by heart, but I hadn't really watched it for some time. It makes you feel like your skin is being turned inside out. I wish the television viewing audience in general had gotten a chance to see this. To hell with Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead or Empire. 24 can kiss my ass. This is the moment of all moments.
James Martin yeah Deep Space Nine was different it was far darker than other star treks.
+Emperor Angelos It explored what would happen to a supposedly 'perfect' society like The Federation if suddenly faced with all-out total war against an enemy that was slowly and surely bound to defeat it. It explored the decisions that individuals and a society as a whole needed to make when fighting tooth and nail for life.
Sisko here, is a person who has finally decided that they will take the supposed 'dark path' to victory because they are left with no more alternatives, he decides, rightly or wrongly, to keep the conscience of his 'perfect society' clean by taking all the guilt onto himself, by being the villain to achieve a greater good.
AEigner Yeah the alternate reality version of Picard where the Federation was losing a war to the Klingons was a lot like this too complete with the federation resorting to using child soldiers and all out of desperation
*****
I need to look at that episode again. The commbadges and the strategic war board are what struck me most. I do remember everyone was war-weary and grittier.
James Martin yeah it was pretty bleak i mean the only thing i could think to compare it too would be the Human Covenant war
I'm watching all of DS9 for the first time and just finished this episode, I came here to see everyone's opinion on this and I'm not disappointed. Picard was my favorite for a long time but I think Sisko has dethroned him, a Captain willing to do what's necessary for the greater good, that's something you don't see often in Star Trek.
Picard was my favorite peacetime Captain. Sisko is the Captain I want to win a war.
The thing that's great about this, the framing device of the log builds the idea the Sisko is explaining himself in the hopes of (the viewers) approval that he did the right thing. The 'I can live with it' line and erasing the log, shows that he doesn't need the viewers approval.
What made Sisko great is that he wasn’t afraid to bend or even break the rules when it was necessary for the greater good. Picard (literally) wouldn’t be caught dead even CONTEMPLATING such things.
DS:9 was my favorite of all the Trek shows, though I will always love the original series. Sisko absolutely rocks!
This whole scene just makes sisko
incredibly human and that's why I love it.
This is by far the best episode of DS9 and possibly all of Trek.
Sisko, I think, epitomizes "Good is not Soft". Especially visible here, "I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would."
The TVTrope page for Good Is Not Soft uses a--I think--Terry Pratchett quote I find works with Sisko:
"If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar. So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word." ~Discworld
“....I think I can live with it.”
I hate seeing him go through this but if I were in the same position I would do the same thing
The snarkiness of senator Vreenak stills makes me chuckle. Still...magnificent episode...best of any franchise. hard choices had to be made, and he made them. But, it would have failed if it weren't for Garak...Sisko chose well to include him...
Pack it up everyone, the best Star Trek has already been made!
AGREE!!!!
"In war there is nothing more honorable than victory" Worf.....
"I can live with it... I *can* live with it..."
I love that bit there. Like he's still not entirely sure of it, and is just trying to convince himself of it.
Best performance of Avery Brooks by far