Doubling Tracks - The Best Ways (And Worst Way) To Add That Doubled Track Feel
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- Опубликовано: 9 апр 2020
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Ever needed to double a vocal or guitar? Many users don't realize copy/paste a region isn't the solution. The best (and worst) ways for that doubled effect. 
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I think it’s important for people who might be learning to mix to understand that when you have a midi region rather than just duplicating the midi region bouncing the region in place will create a duplicate track without taxing your CPU as much
That was brillliant. Took the bits and pieces I’ve heard over the years, and laid it out in a useful fashion. Excellent.
I’ve been subscribed for a year or two now and I’m glad the channel is growing!But your content is so good you should have more subscribers!
I finally figured out why I'm so comfortable with your format. You sound almost exactly like Andrew Kramer from Video Copilot. The quality of your videos and the mannerism of speech are so familiar and easy to follow. Well done!
This was a great lesson, As an amateur home producer I've been having phasing issues with duplicating tracks recently and this is the solution! I can't wait to try it out!
all I can say is AWESOME!!! I was panning hard left and right, It just sounded like I was getting louder volume and watched videos and heard ppl say hard left hard right so I followed. Thanks for clarity.
You uncover my rookie mistakes attempting to punch certain tracks... I like YOUR methods much more. Thanks again!
Fabulous, and you just solved an issue I always have had. I was doing timing and pitch changes. Your result seems much better :). Thank you.
The Region inspector has sample delay and fine tune pitch as well which can do this. also using logics pitch shifter in dual mono mode on a track stack is great too.
Th
Agree with everything except for using Logic's pitch shifter. That thing sounds dreadful.
that was the best explanation with the summing to mono example. So many you tube videos only talk about copying and panning with out even mentioning slight delay, or even worse saying delay is not the thing to do but just copy and pan. I liked your add in of space designer and some sort of saturation/overdirve. What I try to do if I can is use two different guitars with different amp effects, but sometimes I don't have that and your technique is definitely one of the better techniques.
I've learned so much from this channel. Thanks!
This Is really helpful and creative, thank you!
Great great great content! - as always 👍🏻 That's Why Logic Pro Rules!
Thanks sharing the cool tip about using Space Designer’s amp simulation to widen a doubled track.
Very good tutorial. Like usual! Thank you
Very helpful. Thanks!
So helpful. Thank you.
Great video!
This video makes sense, Thanks!
Love the way you teach, good video.
Awesome. As always.
Great work bro!
Great tips! I have used logic for years and never played with the cab section of space designer! Would love to see you do a video on 2bus compression, what your personal preferences are and how to do it with logic’s built in compressors - if that’s a viable option. Cheers!
Chris, really good advice 👍
Very helpful man thank you!
It would be interesting to hear the phase get flipped after the FX were added to the right channel to see how different they became. None the less another great video!
Lovely.Thank you so much.
Good stuff, cheers!!
Mind Blown!
Amazing video
That was fantastic.
learned a lot from you, thx
cool technique. thank you!
thanks so much , learned a lot
Great tip mate
this is gold!
Great tutor! 👏🏻👍🏻👏🏻👍🏻
Thx You Chris- I stubble across this and it helped me out a LOT!, so Thank You AGAIN :) , George Amodei
Really really good vid
Thanks mate
Thank you!! 🙏🏽🙏🏽
You can also use quantize on duplicated track + your tricks. Works great.
this looks very good for my violins , thx
Brilliant, I'd heard that doubling was a no-no but never heard how it could be "fixed".
Another thing you can do is to use chorus on duplicated regions, but set the chorus rate on one region slightly different than the rate on the other.
For MIDI regions you can use MIDI Transform > Humanize as well. This will pseudorandomly move the position, length, and velocity of each note in the duplicated track enough to simulate enough difference between the tracks to make it sound as if it were truly double-tracked. This sounds more natural than Sample Delay where every note in the duplicated track is delayed the same exact amount at the same exact velocity.
Humanize also works well on piano comp (accompaniment) tracks. If all the notes are hitting perfectly together (assume the notes are quantized to the grid) that can sound a little mechanical, but this feature slightly arpeggiates the notes in each cord, the way a keyboard player might naturally play chords.
It especially works well if the chords sound like they have too much attack, because this can soften the attack just a little bit in a much more natural way than using the Enveloper plug-in to soften the attack. And you may want certain notes to have more attack and others to not have so much attack. With Humanize, you can apply it selectively. If I have a piano comp that is a combination of chords and individual notes, I typically apply Humanize to the chords and not to the single notes.
Haas Effect 5:53 Many thanks
man...I just love your tutorials! thanks a bunch!
As always- amazing understanding and skill in teaching us.
Your Video has helped a lot btw. I have learned of the Haas effect and the usage of different impulse responses to change tonality and timing. You can't beat good old fashioned double recording with two performances, however I have noticed that I run into the issue of, 1: my guitar takes being majorly different all the time, and thus sounding messy and separate as opposed to as one big take, 2: my guitar riffs being "happy accidents " that I came across while improvising and managed to capture them on interface so to speak, but then can't recreate that same thing again (like a really cool riff but its stupidly fast and I can't seem to get the timing right the second time round), and/or 3: (most common) I played an improvised riff/lead and have since forgotten what I have played, and I don't trust my pitch detection skills and instincts to be correct and can't risk the double take to be off key. I'm generally really sloppy and badly organised, but that just in general, not just guitar playing. So the little sample delay + tonal change + harmonics really helps.
By the way, I wonder whether you can achieve the harmonics and tonal change part by changing the amp I use and/or the cab, and/or the amp settings (maybe more mid gain on one and less treble, and less mids and more bass on the other).
If properly double tracking, different amps will increase the effect. Something you could do if you aren't comfortable double tracking your parts is record direct (either through a line out of your amp or otherwise) and run the two tracks through different amp (or speaker) Sims. You could also record with a Mimiq Pedal, which is the Haas Effect, but iirc the timing fluctuates as to create a more realistic double tracked sound.
Another good technique is to use flex timing and or pitch changes to the duplicated region to change the timing slightly (more random than just a static 13ms delay) or the pitch by a few cents.
If you delay the signal by a few milliseconds (Haas effect), it can get pretty nasty if your file is played on a mono system. Because of the phases, the level of the duplicated tracks becomes much too low. It already happened to me with a small demo recording when I showed it and there was a mono system (which is often the case in bars - if it were stereo, for example, the early Beatles recordings would sound very strange in every corner - here only vocals and in other corner only instruments)
That's why it's important to tweak the EQ so there's still plenty of frequencies that don't collide. Mix one side dark and on s bright and the phase cancelation won't be so dramatic
@@salzulli6290 or record a second take
@@andy_182 You can, but sometimes you don't have the time or skill to record a second take. If it's a complex riff, or you have limited studio time to record, sometimes you gotta get creative.
really makes u think about stopping love 😳
No no no…there’s no stopping love.
Basically, we have the same taste in music, but I need your skills. I would pay for you to mix my songs in a heartbeat!
Brilliant
nice lou reed pfp
Is there any stopping love? Asking for a friend.
there is no way ..
There certainly is.
Hi Hi
Hi
Hi
100% newbie to Logic. First of all, your videos are great. I have a request if at all possible. Could you do a video on how to set up sound files on an external hard drive and how to work with them in Logic?
I don't know what he will recommend, but back when I used logic, I would save the files to the local hard drive. After I finished, I would move the files over to the external drive.
see my post above
I use Garageband and while preferring two separate takes of, say, guitar, using the Haas effect sounds better when changing the virtual amp head and maybe fiddling with the treble/middle/bass levels. It sounds like two sets of sounds even with the same guitar track.
Cracking video! How does the Haas effect (plus additional processing) sum in mono? Do you lose anything / much tone?
cracking toast, grommit. :o)
awesome video. do you recommend making the level of the one with more processing lower or exactly the same ?
i like to use pitch adjust and make 2 extra vocals left and right .. one a few cents higher in pitch and the other a few cents lower.
What about, if you use the "tone blender" strip setting with a duplicated take. That could be used to impart the differential tonality maybe?
Hey Chris - thanks for this amazing video. This solved a huge problem I've had with trying to get fat sounding guitar tracks without having to do new takes. Question for you though... when you added the Overdrive plugin to add texture to the doubled guitar track, why did you set the tone to 20kHz? It seemed like you did it like a default setting rather than a creative choice. Is there a good reason to set it that high?
Almost thought this was that other guys video, recording revolution
He is like recording revolution, but for logic pro instead of pro tools. Lol
Gotta add a pitch shift of a few cents in addition to the 19ms delay. It’s less phasey this way.
Thanks - great topic. Cant you change the pitch - maybe just some cents?
Great video! Already new about most things, but learned some new stuff. Thank you. Also anybody knows what song this is?
I think it's something to do with stopping Luuurrrve
I love TOTO too.
It's good practice to play things in twice.The other methods are cool too but musicians should play.
Hi Chris, thanks for this ADT technique which I find sounds really great. But as much as it sounds glorious on a stereo mix I'm experiencing (phase?) problems when I go mono. It sounds really weak (major drop in volume, so it's out of phase I guess) and very chorusy'... Is there a way to keep the same vibe from stereo to mono or is it doomed (and logical) to sound like this ? Thanks a lot, Ax
Really as long as your plugins aren't exactly the same, you'll be fine. More compression, different EQ, a delay instead of a reverb, a different amp or mic simulator, etc.
I like...
Love your content, I’m new here and was wondering if you have a video specifically for moving Logic projects from internal storage to external storage properly. I just got done tracking an album on internal storage and decided that it would have obviously been better to be using an SSD the entire time, so I’d like to move all of the projects and have them work seamlessly from an external drive. But as I’m new to that process I wasn’t sure if there’s a clean and proper way to do it vs just “drag the logic folder over to the external” .... p.s. all of my projects are saved as folders with all blue boxes checked, NOT packets 😉
Back when I used logic dragging the folders was all I needed to do. I do recommend recording off the local hard drive though because sometimes there will be file writing/reading issues when writing/reading to an external drive. After you finish recording and mixing, you can move your files to the external drive.
if you have an ssd, this a superior way of working. it unloads the stress from your internal drive. in fact logic now has a "relocate sounds" function and you can move your entire internal Logic sound library to an external. but yes. dragging and dropping files to the new drive is perfectly fine.. just remember to delete the ones from your internal drive for the sake of confusion. when I moved everything off to an external. I left all my songs on the internal. and accidentally was still loading and working on the internal drive songs. then when I opened one from the external (which I thought I was doing all along) none of my new work was there. scared me to death..
Weird, under my logic (10.5) I only have speakers under warped effects, there is no analog circuits?
Is it mainly preference to double track or is it ideal to have the main instrument doubled? I'm wondering if I should double track a piano song I'm recording.
I get a lot of phase problems when I do the 20ms of delay which is the most convincing stereo width, the rest of the tricks don't do much alone...still looking for some solution to this.
Key Commands-Search "Duplicate Track with content)- Assign it to OPT COM D.
Now you can duplictae a track with ALL regions too. 💪
Wow that's an amazing idea. Thanks!
EQ the tracks differently will add some separation. (Learned from Graham Cochrane)
Yes, it makes the mix so wide. Graham's tip on that was super helpful.
I accidentally replaced my drum instead of doubling it Logic Pro X. Is there a way to get that audio back so I can use it still? The first track is now muted and I can’t get it back. There is a red dot on the tracks I have replaced instead of doubling.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Re the warp reverb, could you also just put two different (logic) amps on the guitars?
That should work if the tones are different enough.
Maybe adding automation to sample delay to add randomness...
Wow that’s actually a cool idea!!
Flextime and Slighty different Quantize offsets can do wonders too.
Was thinking the same, that instead of sample delay has Hoss effect (which takes much less time), why not manually mess around with flextime (but that's just it - more time experimenting how far you can go with flexing + the amount of times you might want to double parts in a project.) But all the other ideas are cool - especially using space designer in such a way! :O
Interesting comment! I'm a pretty advanced user in LPX but I've never used Flex Time.. could you explain it a bit more in depth? Also I agree about the quantizing, i like doing that manually especially for drums. For example, the closed hats i might push 12 nudges to the right or so, and a few extra nudges on the offbars
Good thinking. A similar thing (but working with pitch rather than timing) that I used to do before we had Flex Time was to layer a vocal with an Autotuned version of itself. I guess with Logic’s Flex parameters, you could probably combine the two.
When doubling tracks, should the output to each track be set to mono? What about binaural?
Question does apply for midi instruments?
Do the same rules apply for MIDI tracks?
Dese Chris. Thanks for the video. Question, if you do have two takes you still recommend to add Space D to the second track to add different tonality? Thanks
I don't know about Chris, but I use a completely different amp sim for the second take. The differences in tonality help to widen the sound.
@@danny1959 That is what I do as well. Also recording a second take will make the stereo effect work more because the performances will have different nuances.
Sir,if Want record double tracking,double tracking rtyhm guitar ,or all guitar?bass,rtyhm,lead
what about doubling synth midi tracks? if you copy and paste them it will only create a big mono sound.
could I do that with a lead (hard panning)?
hard pans and doubling identical tracks wont help as they will basically phase/cancel each other. slightly detuning, or uptuning either channel is one method. another i like to do is to slightly push one of the two ahead or behind the beat. then it opens up. or, ultimately two different takes/recordings for each doubled set
5:54 what to do with one take? Use Haas effect
Typically I’ll record 3 guitar tracks, each with slightly different tones, with one in the center gluing it all together.
Tim Bunch definitely great if you are looking for the guitars filling up most of the panned spectrum! I typically only do this if I have a separate Rhythm guitar line, where L/R play the same thing and C plays something different.
I usually record two tracks and pan left and right accordingly. Different tones like you. May have to try the third guitar track as an idea. Thanks!
How about using the spreader?!?
But there's
...No stoppin' love.
How about using the spreader?!?
Dumb question but...while I understand how identical waveforms will cancel if the phase on one is inverted, I don't get how it happened in your example with the panned guitar tracks because each is still being sent to a different place, right, with no opportunity to destructively interfere with one another?
Never mind, after you closed the gain plugin, I see that they were moved back to center. Leaving my comment in case anyone else was momentarily confused
3:09 what happened to the mono button on the gain plug? Also the L&R switcher is missing as well! wtf?
the track is mono, so you can’t
delay a channel that isnt there
when the music started I thought I got one of those shitty commercials for life hacks or something lol
Wish we could hear this mix in mono
This 👆🏻
Two tracks hard panned and the second copied is just mono center.
But takes up two tracks.
note to myself: for vocals: Copy the vocal track, hire a singer, use that track!
I just tried listening in mono on the iPhone and most of these solutions sound bad in mono, at best it slightly thickens the sound, at worse it lowers the sound and gives some phased warble.
Not saying these are bad but you should always check in mono before printing.
kish2 That‘s why nowadays great records should be mixed on iPhones - and in mono.
yes. these methods are good but will inherently introduce phase issues. unfortunately the only best way to double tracks is to literally double them. I always track doubles just in case. I mean I do multiple takes anyway so instead of merging all the takes when im ready ill grab another take and save it for future needs if I need.. then merge down. almost every song I track there are a group of tracks that are muted, which are all my safety banks of different takes. always a good idea to have them there if you need them