Thank you for the info! When quad tracking, do you hard pan guitars 3 and 4? Or do you bring them inward more? Maybe even expanded further out? Or do they sit on top of the already hard panned guitars 1 and 2? Thank you!
My GUY, growing up listening to your god-tier post-hardcore mixes I never thought I'd get this insight straight from the source. At this point, I will admit that I have picked up a lot of these tips either through hours of tutorial digging or hours of experimentation, but the sauce is all here, and clear, and from the man himself. Thanks Joey.
On a quad track recording I particularly like the blend between 2 tracks recorded on a bridge humbucker and 2 recorded on neck+bridge splited coils. Great blend with the seymor ducan sentient/nazgul.
Great vid one of the best I’ve seen regarding multiple guitar tracking! As a studio and touring guitarist first from the late 70s hard rock 80s glam,metal and virtuoso and still playing I have always struggled with getting that big sound with separation definition and clarity God knows I have everything from radial for RE-amping, axe Fx and every plug-in emulator available, Ox box, Torpedo, tons of vintage heads and cabs some great mics But no goddamn patience! I’m also very interested in this Mutt Lange technique Thanks
What would I do without these videos... But Joey, could you maybe do a video about the important balance between the Bass and guitars (especially in the more heavy-ish genres)? "The key to a great guitar tone, is the bass" is a quote I think I once heard in one of the many URM Academy videos on YT
How would you go about panning the guitars where there is 2 distinct guitar parts? Such as harmony guitar riffs etc? I get the double track each guitar and pan L+R but how would this work for harmonies that are panned L+R without having both parts of the harmony in both ears? Hopefully I've explained this well enough 😅
That whole thing of recording the song in small bits, time aligning, and hyper editing has ruined rock music. Rock is supposed to have some junk in it. It’s supposed to be alive. This crap sounds like a machine played it. No thanks.
this is why music sucks... if you change the timing its not the same as having a player play to the drums.. Quantization ruins rock... IT's not house music so you don't need perfect timing.. that is why music sound sterile today..
Most of these tips are amazing, but I'm really against hyper-polishing a mix. Takes should not have to be cut up that much to be acceptable and line up
That’s just not true, I can play every part I write but can I do it perfectly like a machine ? This technique is to get perfection , if you don’t want a perfect take and want a more natural feel don’t edit . Of course the less editing the better the player needs to be but it all comes down to how perfect you want it. I like my recordings to sound like I’m a robot 😎
Man, Sturgis is the frikkin god of metal mixing and tone. Toneforge Jeff Loomis changed my life. And this video was a game changer for my guitar sound, not just the double/quad tracking but also the use of atmospheric cleans and the use of effects to create texture. We bow in awe.
For me the biggest challenge when it comes to double tracked guitars is mono compatibility. For some reason my guitars seem to disappear in mono, even when they sound very different. I know I'm not alone with this, many people seem to have the same issue on forums. When I switch to mono, suddenly the snare and the vocals jump out waaay too much. Any advice?
My understanding is it's kind of the nature of the beast. Panloss settings can affect this from what I've heard. But a surprising amount of professional tracks disappear in mono. Listen to your favorite metal tracks and see how they do in mono. It's actually quite surprising. Another thing you can do is switch out what cabinet you're using for each track, which is really only possible if you're doing it with amp sims like Joey. Another thing to keep in mind: the vast majority of people are going to be listening to the song stereo.
Man i cant find it anywhere and i dont know.where i heard it but if you record at center and then pan after doesnt that cause a loss in definition. Shouldnt you record at 100 percent left and after that record again at 100.percent right
The quad tracking sounded so good, every time I try it, it seems to thin out the sound significantly. I noticed yours were called OCTAVE L/R are they just pushed up 12 semitones or are they actually played an octave above?
Nice video! Trying to break into metal production and this helps alot. There are plenty of techniques I've used dozens and dozens of times before but its nice to see them being repeated here. Thanks!
I love guitar left high end thinner, right guitar high end like thinner, duplicate left and right then make the guitars more thick mid range and blend them in all together. 100/100 high end 76/76 thick end. 🤘
I think building guitar riffs note by note, is kind of lame, Its like Building a film set House facade, but you actually move in and try and live there. I get the rationale, its only the final product that matters, I just don't agree with that rationale. Good video though lots of great tips
What would you suggest for a verse where it’s basically just the rhythm part and bass with no lead guitar? Think like the first verse in Run Away by For All Those Sleeping
This is good information, but I cannot abide by 'building chords note by note' amongst other things. I would prefer to run 20 takes and use the best one. Imperfect music is the most genuine music for imperfect listeners. I'm not a robot producing tracks from a perfect algorithm. I'm allowed to make mistakes, and I'd rather they be there.
Mann I just found this channel by chance... This is hands down my favourite mixing/producing channel! It's like watching a TV show and it is everything Nail the Mix should have been! Focused and to the point!!
Small chunks, because that is the way music is played... play a dull track, stop lining things up, and noise is often your friend in this lame engineer world, when music is a science lab. Buy a tape machine and tell me you can still get a sound. .. the reverse is easily true.
Gruv gear sells stuff for $20 or more, but I've found that a velcro cable tie with the loop side on the strings does the same job, and you can get a huge roll of them for the same price. But the specialized products are more aesthetically pleasing. Don't forget the tremolo springs as well.
I think 12 guitar layers may have been my maximum. Usualy 4 - 6 is normal for me. I always struggle to get ambient cleans to cut through the distorted guitars though.
Reaper "licensed for personal/small business use", eh ? 😅
Good catch lol
shhhhhh ;)
To save y'all 10 minutes of time. DOUBLETRACK EVERYTHING and HARD PAN EVERYTHING. Lol
Thank you for the info! When quad tracking, do you hard pan guitars 3 and 4? Or do you bring them inward more? Maybe even expanded further out? Or do they sit on top of the already hard panned guitars 1 and 2? Thank you!
This is the information I needed in my life.
Always wanted to figure out how to layer rhythm guitars properly!
ikr, it's very hard to find these stuff for metal music around internet. That mono compatibility trick is what I needed
very hard to find anything metal and modern 😂💀
My GUY, growing up listening to your god-tier post-hardcore mixes I never thought I'd get this insight straight from the source. At this point, I will admit that I have picked up a lot of these tips either through hours of tutorial digging or hours of experimentation, but the sauce is all here, and clear, and from the man himself. Thanks Joey.
melodic death core
melodic death core
Pretty much exactly what I thought when I found out he had tutorials on RUclips!
I would love to watch a live stream of Joey editing/mixing a song
He did on nail the mix a bunch. He even did a more recent one with attack attack’s new song
Nail the mix or Creative Live
I've seen it before
Count me in!
second that 🙌🏻
On a quad track recording I particularly like the blend between 2 tracks recorded on a bridge humbucker and 2 recorded on neck+bridge splited coils. Great blend with the seymor ducan sentient/nazgul.
"Small chunks...can mean building chords up one note at a time"
Take some lessons, RUclipsr.
Man, I really gotta stop watching your videos while I’m on a timeline…now I gotta go quad-track a chorus 😢
when you quad track, do you pan all of them hard left and right, or you spread along the pan ?
Some of my favorite guitar layering is what Ken Andrew’s did on Failure’s Fantastic Planet… so good.
I’d be interested to see how you would mix a indie rock band.
Anyone know what Reaper theme this is ?
Great vid one of the best I’ve seen regarding multiple guitar tracking!
As a studio and touring guitarist first from the late 70s hard rock 80s glam,metal and virtuoso and still playing I have always struggled with getting that big sound with separation definition and clarity
God knows I have everything from radial for RE-amping, axe Fx and every plug-in emulator available,
Ox box, Torpedo, tons of vintage heads and cabs some great mics
But no goddamn patience!
I’m also very interested in this Mutt Lange technique
Thanks
This was so helpful. I was wondering about quadruple layering in choruses too, and now I’m excited to do it and alter the tone a bit. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Do you hard pan all the tracks? Do you ever do like 80% left and right for specific stuff? Always was curious about that.
Mutt Lange method? No thank you! That sounds like so much work. Anyways, this video is packed with so much helpful info, thanks Joey.
What would I do without these videos...
But Joey, could you maybe do a video about the important balance between the Bass and guitars (especially in the more heavy-ish genres)?
"The key to a great guitar tone, is the bass" is a quote I think I once heard in one of the many URM Academy videos on YT
How would you go about panning the guitars where there is 2 distinct guitar parts? Such as harmony guitar riffs etc? I get the double track each guitar and pan L+R but how would this work for harmonies that are panned L+R without having both parts of the harmony in both ears? Hopefully I've explained this well enough 😅
What theme are you using in Reaper?
This is gold! 🤘😁 and... that's reaper? What skin? 😯
That whole thing of recording the song in small bits, time aligning, and hyper editing has ruined rock music. Rock is supposed to have some junk in it. It’s supposed to be alive. This crap sounds like a machine played it. No thanks.
this is why music sucks... if you change the timing its not the same as having a player play to the drums.. Quantization ruins rock... IT's not house music so you don't need perfect timing.. that is why music sound sterile today..
I totally forgot that the amount of layers affect the size of the overall mix. I feel dumb after that one but this will help me so much!
So many great tips in just one video! Amazing as always!
This video is a wealth of knowledge! Probably one of the best channels out here!
...well thats a way but really extreme... as you do more a guitarsampling then an actual performance? hui!
Wait, was that “All My Life” by Attack Attack! I heard?? 👀
Most of these tips are amazing, but I'm really against hyper-polishing a mix. Takes should not have to be cut up that much to be acceptable and line up
I feel like it comes down to the musician at that point.
Yep I feel the same! Editing is a shortcut for not getting the takes right.
Unfortunately, this is how records are produced nowadays 🥲🥲
That’s just not true, I can play every part I write but can I do it perfectly like a machine ? This technique is to get perfection , if you don’t want a perfect take and want a more natural feel don’t edit . Of course the less editing the better the player needs to be but it all comes down to how perfect you want it. I like my recordings to sound like I’m a robot 😎
Fair point, but another is what sound are you going for? A live garage band vibe or a tight production? Both are valid.
Man, Sturgis is the frikkin god of metal mixing and tone. Toneforge Jeff Loomis changed my life. And this video was a game changer for my guitar sound, not just the double/quad tracking but also the use of atmospheric cleans and the use of effects to create texture. We bow in awe.
For me the biggest challenge when it comes to double tracked guitars is mono compatibility. For some reason my guitars seem to disappear in mono, even when they sound very different. I know I'm not alone with this, many people seem to have the same issue on forums. When I switch to mono, suddenly the snare and the vocals jump out waaay too much. Any advice?
My understanding is it's kind of the nature of the beast. Panloss settings can affect this from what I've heard. But a surprising amount of professional tracks disappear in mono. Listen to your favorite metal tracks and see how they do in mono. It's actually quite surprising.
Another thing you can do is switch out what cabinet you're using for each track, which is really only possible if you're doing it with amp sims like Joey. Another thing to keep in mind: the vast majority of people are going to be listening to the song stereo.
Pan law was what I meant
Awesome video! Btw, how do you do that mouse selection around 1:45?
do you have channel for private discussion or something brother ?
Your channel is helping me with my guitar production so much, thank you.
That's awesome! Keep rockin!
I use 100 layers.
I remember when I used to use 100 layers. I never go below 500 nowadays. Joey does 1000-2000 usually
@@stupidfirebeats I go over 9000
Wow. Turn it up to 11 and we're in business.
I learn more in the 9 minutes your video last, than in years trying wrong ideas, SUPER GREAT VIDEO.
The song you featured in this video is BANGER! Very Scandinavian melodic style, love it.
this is terrible. what is wrong with you kids today?
2:47 is this attack attack? sounds like a riff from the newer ep
Layering fake stuff from offended kids - no thank you
Joey in Reaper? Is this the real lyf?
are all of the pannings hard left and right ? for leads also?? thanks
I always quad track my rythem guitar tracks for the chorus and then double track in the verse
Joey giving away all the secrets.
Man i cant find it anywhere and i dont know.where i heard it but if you record at center and then pan after doesnt that cause a loss in definition. Shouldnt you record at 100 percent left and after that record again at 100.percent right
This doesn't make a lot of sense since a dry guitar (without fx) is a mono signal that can then be panned in a DAW.
Please make more of these. Like... so many. I'll give you a hug and a free song.
Awesome! Quick question! If you have 2 guitarist doing different riffs, do you double them, hard pan? Then merge and Pan those 2 performances L R?
The quad tracking sounded so good, every time I try it, it seems to thin out the sound significantly. I noticed yours were called OCTAVE L/R are they just pushed up 12 semitones or are they actually played an octave above?
you can use the exact same DI and lower it by 1 octave then apply the same fx chain with a bit of variation
Ew
Nice video! Trying to break into metal production and this helps alot. There are plenty of techniques I've used dozens and dozens of times before but its nice to see them being repeated here. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
I love guitar left high end thinner, right guitar high end like thinner, duplicate left and right then make the guitars more thick mid range and blend them in all together. 100/100 high end 76/76 thick end. 🤘
How come when I record guitars they sound terrible and quiet hard panned left and right, but sound good when panned like 75% or less?
Hey man,really loved your way.
Could you please explain that rhythm section chop in a brief.
Thanks.
This was very helpful. Noticed my mistakes right away. Thank you!!!
Thank you, Joey! Very informative video!👏
@4:08 you turn everything off except guitar. It sounds like its using an octave pedal maybe??? SO low
The man the legend the vst plug-in...
Noisy Harmonics!
How dare you sir!
This is an artful intentional technique, 😂
Wow! Thank you for this GREAT video! This opened my ears to create better-sounding guitars in my songs. Mucho Thanks!!
The thickening 🤘🏽
The double track performance dropping back a few ms with different mics were to I buy this from?
I think building guitar riffs note by note, is kind of lame, Its like Building a film set House facade, but you actually move in and try and live there. I get the rationale, its only the final product that matters, I just don't agree with that rationale. Good video though lots of great tips
What DAW are you using?
Doesn't matter
2:09! Attack Attack!
I never thought of processing my FX post-record on the DI... Thank you!
Is there a link to the song @ 8:29?
Anybody know the song around 7:58? Melodic stuff!
What DAW is this? Reaper?
No; YOU thought this said Guitar LAWYERS.
Perhaps show HOW you do it, not just what.
But the video is about "what" and not "how".
Such a massive NERD, but love your stuff!
Pro tip.. Listen more to Black Sabbath..
How did you get reaper to look like that? I have the same theme I think but your colours are more vibrant
Jw what daw is that anyways?
Please make Toneforge available on the M1 chips! 😫
What reaper pitch algorithm are you using for stretching the DIs?
Reapitch
yo the CHON homies! we're still waiting for their new music!
What would you suggest for a verse where it’s basically just the rhythm part and bass with no lead guitar? Think like the first verse in Run Away by For All Those Sleeping
Why doesn't the octave differences give the feeling of being out of tune? I've experimented with these and I always get the feel of out of tune.
Bro do you live in LA? I think I saw you at Bed Bath and Beyond
Lol we’re they having a closing out sale? Yeah that was me
-Miami
@@joeymusic Rip bbnb
This is good information, but I cannot abide by 'building chords note by note' amongst other things. I would prefer to run 20 takes and use the best one. Imperfect music is the most genuine music for imperfect listeners. I'm not a robot producing tracks from a perfect algorithm. I'm allowed to make mistakes, and I'd rather they be there.
Same
Anyone knows how to get the floating mixer like in 1:55?
right click on the mixer dock thumbnail... uncheck "dock mixer in docker" 😉
bugman
How do you make this gradient color tracks???
Do you pan the quad track guitars hard L and R or are you off setting a pair to like 75% or something?
What is the name of the mic SIM unit did you say tunforge
This man speaks fcking truth to power! 🤘
Dat kul man 👌🏻
Mann I just found this channel by chance... This is hands down my favourite mixing/producing channel! It's like watching a TV show and it is everything Nail the Mix should have been! Focused and to the point!!
Do you double track at once or in separate takes??
Or phase cancel issue?
is this reaper?
eahhhh
I'd like a tutorial on how you setup reaper to be so pretty!
Great channel, my new favorite place to check out with a cup of joe
Small chunks, because that is the way music is played... play a dull track, stop lining things up, and noise is often your friend in this lame engineer world, when music is a science lab. Buy a tape machine and tell me you can still get a sound. .. the reverse is easily true.
WTF did I just read...
I would pay money for a start to finish recording and mixing/editing tutorial from joey. Is that already a thing anywhere..?
Yes look up Studio Pass on Creative Live
great video especially about the tape/foam - any products on the market for this?
Gruv gear sells stuff for $20 or more, but I've found that a velcro cable tie with the loop side on the strings does the same job, and you can get a huge roll of them for the same price. But the specialized products are more aesthetically pleasing.
Don't forget the tremolo springs as well.
I think 12 guitar layers may have been my maximum. Usualy 4 - 6 is normal for me. I always struggle to get ambient cleans to cut through the distorted guitars though.
I love the tone you achieve with the guitar, it reminds me a lot of Cathedral! Cheers!
Great Video!! Thank You!
What DAW are you using?
All manually it take like 1 million years