reminds me of Street Fighter V. players would wear Red for their character (ex Ryu) to trigger a psychological response from their opponents to be more aggressive when versing Ryu
The best way to psychologically outmaneuver your opponent is to shadowbox aggressively while you opponent moves, shoots, does anything other than glorious melee. Ideally you scream the lyrics to There Will Be Blood from MGR as well.
Funny you bring this up, my brother-in-law brought a stompa and I told him I was going to bring a stormsurge (it was a casual game). I bated him into deploying it so that I could pop it turn one. I say it’s funny that you bring this up because I used a bunch of the tips in this video without knowing it to do just that.
@nomassgoer8350 sad a stompa can be killed in 1 turn. It need rules to make it more durable. It got damage but is made of tissue paper. A once per game ignore the damage of 1 attack and a 6+ fnp would make it competitive.
I think the problem with the stompa is that it is 800 points. It took 800 points for me take it out. But once I did he was out 800 points turn one. Honestly putting it in strat reserves in the new detachment could be very powerful. It would at least be so much fun!
“Just so you know, the Dice Gods have blessed that unit that I have moved out into the open. You sure you want to shoot at them with overcharged plasma?”
You’re right about telling/not telling the opponent what you’re doing. There are times where I straight up tell someone what I am going to do, they then move out what I want to remove from the board.
If they throw all of their chaff out to stop you, then you take out all their chaff and they have to use big guys for secondaries. If they put out their big guys you take them out and your chaff can do secondaries. The moral of the story is never listen to your opponent haha
I spent a whole game coaching my newbie friend on when and how to use Counter-Offensive. Somehow, he was surprised when I used it on him at a critical moment, as if he didn't see it coming. It was a learning experience for him, yeah, but I guarantee he'll never make that mistake again!
I personally, after passing the turn, start working on boxing combos will loudly exhaling with "OSSS" every strike over the table. I think a few people have heard of me doing this.
I find explaining my tfexes and exocrines can get assault and lethsls from the hivetyrant is enough to make them play so defensively im able to box them in.
I always try the old "you think, I'm gonna do this, so I'm gonna do that.... but I know that you know that I'm gonna do that, so I'm gonna do this... but then you know that I know that you know that, I'd do that instead of this, and so, I'll do the other thing... BUT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW... so I'm gonna deploy my first unit here" I get so many concessions its crazy
A personal poll for the krumpers here, was this psychological or scummy Picked up a secret mission. I had my only battleline unit right outside his deployment zone and he had no battleline on the board. The secret mission i chose was control 3 no mans objectives. I asked him once round 4, and once round 5, "where are your battlelines at?" He ended up dumping most of his shooting at my battleline, giving me the survivability to control all 3 no mans by the end of 5. Is this scummy or a fair bluff?
This is a fair bluff. Your opponent should be playing to deny all possible secret missions, and you didn't lie about public information. Secret missions are secret specifically so you can fake out the opponent like this
Once a secret mission is taken, it's all-out psychological warfare. It is a thing for the player who's ahead to figure out and deny the secret mission, so I'd say it was a fair bluff.
I do this all the time with my sanguinary guard with jump captain. Reminding my opponent about fights first, 35 attacks at ap -3, and a strength 11 power fists on the charge offten makes people not want to charge them on the objective
How does line of sight work for flying units or something like a leman Russ battle tank with a rotating turret and sponsons? Can it shoot in any direction the turret is facing? But line of sight is determined from behind the model… Same for aircraft or hover units. Can they shoot at anywhere?
Psychological warfare is bringing murderfang in your list. It's always hilarious when I put him on the table and my opponent just refuses to move anything even close to him.
My favourite technique is to calmly say "im just going to put my army down on the line, its not going to matter anyway" - am i trying to psyxh you out? Do i know im gonna lose? Am i saying im gonna steamroll you? Who knows, i sure dont, but now ya overthinking..
Every time i have gone into a game going "oh i have lost this".. i have lost. Granted the times i have said "i can win this" haven't gone perfectly but we shall ignore that.
Is is appropriate if someone is accidentally deceitful to ask them to play according to the original statement? This popped into my head with your example of seeing a unit. If you ask your opponent if they could see you there. They say, "no I don't think so". Then they realize they could move to see you In this case, is it appropriate to ask them to not shoot at you? Basically say, "hey, I don't mind if you move there, but I would ask you not shoot because I moved here with the mutual understanding that you couldn't see me." To me this is what falls under "Play by intent." Make sure that you intent is understood, and the opponent acknowledges your intent and any risks to that intent. I suppose this puts you at risk of psychological warfare as they can manipulate the information they give you.
yes, because you both agreed that you moved there with the shared understanding that the first unit couldn't shoot the second unit. If the positioning matters you can just nudge the model back to where it isnt visible as that was your original intent anyway. Just as long as you two both came to the shared understanding beforehand and you arent revealing intent while hes already drawing LoS on that model.
I use paychological warfare like crazy. "This unit has fights first" will stop many charges. "Ive got this baal predator with massive overwatch over here, and it's likely to wipe a unit in overwatch" is a great way to zone out an area. "You dont want to get charged by this unit of 6 sang guard with dante, as they hit extremely hard" seems to make them avoid the unit. My personal favorite tool in the psychological tool in the tool box is when someone asks "whats that unit do" i say "oh, the unit isnt that big of a deal, but they have (named character) with them, and he makes them hit like a nuke (then describe what the unit does).
Haha I love living rent free in my oppo’s head! I once tried to explain this to the deathwatch discord and was far too nuanced for some ears. This concept can blow as many minds as it can go clear over. And then for some confirm or give name to something they already regularly do and/or experience. I love the title - I’ve done this all edition. While I’m extremely forthcoming with my oppo’s, which info I share can totally dictate how they play. I could say I’m playing trashwatch, which has been in the lowest three worst armies all edition, who don’t really have any good matchup and that I’ve only been playing competitive for around a year. Or I could tell them I’m one of the few who’ve had success w DW, went 5-1 at LVO, had an 85% winrate all edition playing only events and teammates and that my coaches are S tier, best in faction types, literally team USA material. Both set of facts are 100% true, but which set I share will make them play cagey and allow me board control and to dictate pace, and the other would make them be like “easy out, everybody move in” and over expose to be fish in a barrel. One might make the argument that these are lies of omission like your overwatch bait example, but those are what we accept are permissible and don’t cross over into the gotcha realm, if we’ve done the work of preparing/reminding our oppo of all the tools our army has. It’s all very Sun Tzu without the overt deceit Killer vid man! Dropping this in the DW discord if you wanna throw back some popcorn w me haha
Love this comment man, well freaking done at LVO. I am super interested to see how you do with the new and improved kill teams! I appreciate the support!
Hmm I'm not sure. This will set a environment where people will believe you're trying to be helpful but in reality you're manipulating them. In tournaments don't listen to opponents at all.
what are you not sure about? and of course you are trying to manipulate your opponent. Thats literally the point of the game, to outmaneuver your opponent. force them into a no-win scenario. Only time to not really be doing this is in intro games teaching new people
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 builds an atmosphere of distrust and disingenuousness. 'Is my opponent actually being helpful and friendly or is he manipulating me?' I know what you're saying, but seems too severe for a game of models. If this became mainstream in tournaments I'd be disappointed and we would have to warn new players 'don't trust anyone, every one is out to manipulate you'. I don't want to be part of that I guess
I do not offer more information than is necessary. For the first example about Dante and Sanguinary Guard charging 19" on turn one, I would not say anything at all and let my opponent deploy as they wish. Do not interrupt your opppnent when they are making mistakes! The only time I do this is if they are new OR if what I am trying to achieve may involve an unclear rules interaction.
ahh i disagree, I find it unreasonable to expect my opponent to know EVERY datasheet and ability in the game. I always give them a run down of my capability pre game
My Votann army is painted the most obnoxiously bright fluorescent pink and I get accused of engaging in psychological warfare all the time lol
hahaha i had not considered that aspect, but i am sure that could be a nice way of messing with your opponent
reminds me of Street Fighter V. players would wear Red for their character (ex Ryu) to trigger a psychological response from their opponents to be more aggressive when versing Ryu
The best way to psychologically outmaneuver your opponent is to shadowbox aggressively while you opponent moves, shoots, does anything other than glorious melee. Ideally you scream the lyrics to There Will Be Blood from MGR as well.
I can control my entire opponents deployment with one simple trick:
Deploy a stompa.
bwahahaha, you are not wrong
Funny you bring this up, my brother-in-law brought a stompa and I told him I was going to bring a stormsurge (it was a casual game). I bated him into deploying it so that I could pop it turn one. I say it’s funny that you bring this up because I used a bunch of the tips in this video without knowing it to do just that.
@nomassgoer8350 sad a stompa can be killed in 1 turn. It need rules to make it more durable. It got damage but is made of tissue paper.
A once per game ignore the damage of 1 attack and a 6+ fnp would make it competitive.
I think the problem with the stompa is that it is 800 points. It took 800 points for me take it out. But once I did he was out 800 points turn one. Honestly putting it in strat reserves in the new detachment could be very powerful. It would at least be so much fun!
@nomassgoer8350 alas when I've played it its taken 400-500 pts of models 1 turn to kill it.
But a strat reserve bomb is nifty
“Just so you know, the Dice Gods have blessed that unit that I have moved out into the open. You sure you want to shoot at them with overcharged plasma?”
lol, this is the way. That is a profound threat!
The mention of multilple deep striking units, units still embarked, even a good old fashioned poker bluff is all part of it.
Basically I’m hearing:
Stop!
Drop!
Shut em down, open up shop!
DMX sings to me in my dreams
You’re right about telling/not telling the opponent what you’re doing. There are times where I straight up tell someone what I am going to do, they then move out what I want to remove from the board.
its such a powerful move, i refer to it as putting my nuts on the table
If they throw all of their chaff out to stop you, then you take out all their chaff and they have to use big guys for secondaries. If they put out their big guys you take them out and your chaff can do secondaries. The moral of the story is never listen to your opponent haha
Some good points. In general giving your opponents stuff to think about can put them off plan
I spent a whole game coaching my newbie friend on when and how to use Counter-Offensive. Somehow, he was surprised when I used it on him at a critical moment, as if he didn't see it coming. It was a learning experience for him, yeah,
but I guarantee he'll never make that mistake again!
excellent! Thats a lesson you have to learn some time! If you always pull punches people will never learn!
I advance my Kommandos 10 inches, d'ya wanna overwatch? HA! Ya can't! Gotcha!
huzzah! obscure rules!
I personally, after passing the turn, start working on boxing combos will loudly exhaling with "OSSS" every strike over the table. I think a few people have heard of me doing this.
One of your opponent wrote an entire Reddit post talking about it 😂 Well done sir
shadowboxing to psych your opponent out
Just explaining your opportunities gives pressure to opponent
I find explaining my tfexes and exocrines can get assault and lethsls from the hivetyrant is enough to make them play so defensively im able to box them in.
perfect example!
I always try the old "you think, I'm gonna do this, so I'm gonna do that.... but I know that you know that I'm gonna do that, so I'm gonna do this... but then you know that I know that you know that, I'd do that instead of this, and so, I'll do the other thing... BUT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW... so I'm gonna deploy my first unit here"
I get so many concessions its crazy
this tracks
INCONCEIVABLE!
A personal poll for the krumpers here, was this psychological or scummy
Picked up a secret mission. I had my only battleline unit right outside his deployment zone and he had no battleline on the board. The secret mission i chose was control 3 no mans objectives. I asked him once round 4, and once round 5, "where are your battlelines at?"
He ended up dumping most of his shooting at my battleline, giving me the survivability to control all 3 no mans by the end of 5.
Is this scummy or a fair bluff?
This is a fair bluff. Your opponent should be playing to deny all possible secret missions, and you didn't lie about public information. Secret missions are secret specifically so you can fake out the opponent like this
100% fair bluff
Once a secret mission is taken, it's all-out psychological warfare. It is a thing for the player who's ahead to figure out and deny the secret mission, so I'd say it was a fair bluff.
I do this all the time with my sanguinary guard with jump captain. Reminding my opponent about fights first, 35 attacks at ap -3, and a strength 11 power fists on the charge offten makes people not want to charge them on the objective
excellent!
How does line of sight work for flying units or something like a leman Russ battle tank with a rotating turret and sponsons?
Can it shoot in any direction the turret is facing? But line of sight is determined from behind the model…
Same for aircraft or hover units. Can they shoot at anywhere?
LOS is from any point on the model, not the gun
@ ohh so they don’t need to be facing the unit they are shooting at?
correct, any part of ANY model may draw line of sight
@ thank you!!
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 thank you!!
puts down 350 models of tyranids in a casual game and says 'i'm not speed rolling'
this makes me want to vomit
Psychological warfare is bringing murderfang in your list. It's always hilarious when I put him on the table and my opponent just refuses to move anything even close to him.
hahaha, my goodness i miss my usable DC dread
My favourite technique is to calmly say "im just going to put my army down on the line, its not going to matter anyway" - am i trying to psyxh you out? Do i know im gonna lose? Am i saying im gonna steamroll you? Who knows, i sure dont, but now ya overthinking..
:P
Have you tried shadow boxing to intimidate your opponent while he's taking his turn
I would just start doing it too
Every time i have gone into a game going "oh i have lost this".. i have lost. Granted the times i have said "i can win this" haven't gone perfectly but we shall ignore that.
yes! Dont psych yourself out either! Psych your opponent out!
Is is appropriate if someone is accidentally deceitful to ask them to play according to the original statement?
This popped into my head with your example of seeing a unit. If you ask your opponent if they could see you there. They say, "no I don't think so". Then they realize they could move to see you
In this case, is it appropriate to ask them to not shoot at you? Basically say, "hey, I don't mind if you move there, but I would ask you not shoot because I moved here with the mutual understanding that you couldn't see me."
To me this is what falls under "Play by intent." Make sure that you intent is understood, and the opponent acknowledges your intent and any risks to that intent. I suppose this puts you at risk of psychological warfare as they can manipulate the information they give you.
yes, because you both agreed that you moved there with the shared understanding that the first unit couldn't shoot the second unit.
If the positioning matters you can just nudge the model back to where it isnt visible as that was your original intent anyway. Just as long as you two both came to the shared understanding beforehand and you arent revealing intent while hes already drawing LoS on that model.
So when playing against Happy Krump
Ask if he wants to overwatch your super valuable unit.
SO he goes no.
haha reverse card it!
Can i keep shadowboxing during my opponents turn?
You gotta live your life boo
walking up cloaked in mist and using a voice changer for no benefit to either party
I use paychological warfare like crazy.
"This unit has fights first" will stop many charges.
"Ive got this baal predator with massive overwatch over here, and it's likely to wipe a unit in overwatch" is a great way to zone out an area.
"You dont want to get charged by this unit of 6 sang guard with dante, as they hit extremely hard" seems to make them avoid the unit.
My personal favorite tool in the psychological tool in the tool box is when someone asks "whats that unit do" i say "oh, the unit isnt that big of a deal, but they have (named character) with them, and he makes them hit like a nuke (then describe what the unit does).
hehehehe these are all beautiful examples my guy!
Your mother-in-law told me about your tax situation, can you really afford those aquilons?
lol
Haha I love living rent free in my oppo’s head!
I once tried to explain this to the deathwatch discord and was far too nuanced for some ears. This concept can blow as many minds as it can go clear over. And then for some confirm or give name to something they already regularly do and/or experience.
I love the title - I’ve done this all edition. While I’m extremely forthcoming with my oppo’s, which info I share can totally dictate how they play.
I could say I’m playing trashwatch, which has been in the lowest three worst armies all edition, who don’t really have any good matchup and that I’ve only been playing competitive for around a year. Or I could tell them I’m one of the few who’ve had success w DW, went 5-1 at LVO, had an 85% winrate all edition playing only events and teammates and that my coaches are S tier, best in faction types, literally team USA material.
Both set of facts are 100% true, but which set I share will make them play cagey and allow me board control and to dictate pace, and the other would make them be like “easy out, everybody move in” and over expose to be fish in a barrel.
One might make the argument that these are lies of omission like your overwatch bait example, but those are what we accept are permissible and don’t cross over into the gotcha realm, if we’ve done the work of preparing/reminding our oppo of all the tools our army has.
It’s all very Sun Tzu without the overt deceit
Killer vid man! Dropping this in the DW discord if you wanna throw back some popcorn w me haha
Love this comment man, well freaking done at LVO. I am super interested to see how you do with the new and improved kill teams! I appreciate the support!
Hmm I'm not sure. This will set a environment where people will believe you're trying to be helpful but in reality you're manipulating them.
In tournaments don't listen to opponents at all.
what are you not sure about? and of course you are trying to manipulate your opponent. Thats literally the point of the game, to outmaneuver your opponent. force them into a no-win scenario. Only time to not really be doing this is in intro games teaching new people
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 builds an atmosphere of distrust and disingenuousness. 'Is my opponent actually being helpful and friendly or is he manipulating me?' I know what you're saying, but seems too severe for a game of models. If this became mainstream in tournaments I'd be disappointed and we would have to warn new players 'don't trust anyone, every one is out to manipulate you'. I don't want to be part of that I guess
have you ever played a competitive match where you are not trying to win? but fair play, you dont need to play competitive
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 not through manipulation
I do not offer more information than is necessary. For the first example about Dante and Sanguinary Guard charging 19" on turn one, I would not say anything at all and let my opponent deploy as they wish.
Do not interrupt your opppnent when they are making mistakes!
The only time I do this is if they are new OR if what I am trying to achieve may involve an unclear rules interaction.
ahh i disagree, I find it unreasonable to expect my opponent to know EVERY datasheet and ability in the game. I always give them a run down of my capability pre game
That's a huge gotcha... You're basically a win at all cost player replying on your opponent's lack of knowledge of the game to win..