11:00 this is often forgotten, but after November 1920, virtually all of the allies of Greece betrayed it AND even stole its money that was stored in American and British banks for the duration of the war. If they had an issue with Constantine, they could have deposed him yet again. The real reason they changed sides was because, after satisfying their own needs by making gains in the Levant, they didn't care at all about the Greeks and Armenians.
@@eidoneverchoosen1171 It is not because they didn't cared but they didn't had the money and the power to figth against Turks in their homeland which is very mountainus.
@@youravaragetoxicmasculinem9508 their also the fact the British primary didn't want any other European power to threaten their global hegemon,, co steering many European empires care only about getting more resource rich lands for themselves. This is why Europe great empires fell.
Turks did not have a chance had it not been for the bolsheviks, the Italians and the French. Yet even under those circumstances the Greeks could have handled Asia Minor but they were divided. Hence the salvation.
14:05 if Greece had taken over Ankara all by itself, it is very unlikely that the Treaty of Sevres would actually be enacted as had been initially signed. The treaty would be renegotiated, in a way that Greece would take more territory in Western Anatolia (most likely the regions of Mysia and Bithynia, which had large Greek populations) as well as North Eastern Anatolia, were the large Pontic Greek populations resided. Italy would also lose all of its possessions in Anatolia, as it had already made a separate agreement with Turkey, which allowed it to pass troops through the Italian zone, and Greece vowed to eliminate the Italian zone, even if it meant that Turkey would be given the land. And, after all that, it is more likely than not that Greece would attempt to take over Constantinople, to complete the Megali Idea
@@1212Diablo Yeah Italy wasn't going to get that land in the first place, especially since they only controlled a small part in the coast. But after allowing the Turks to enter, the zone was essentially lost for them. But also, regardless of that, Greece and Italy had a large rivalry over the naval dominance in the Eastern Mediterranean, with Britain generally supporting Greece. This naval "cold war" was especially evidenced in Albania (where Italy demanded that Greece should retreat from Northern Epirus, and leave it to its Albanian protectorate) and in the Dodecanese (an island chain in the southeastern Aegean, inhabited by Greeks, but colonized by Italy). Also, Italy contested the Greek control of Smyrna. Greece wouldn't just hand over massive amounts of lands to their rivals, especially if Greece was in a position of strength.
Even though those Regions Greece could take had large Greek Populations, Muslims were still a Majority in many places, even though Aegean Coast would be easier to hold due to its closeness and being more Urbanized, Black Sea regions, with their still Larger Muslim majority, composed of Warlike Chepnis and Lazs especialy in Eastern Black Sea İnhabiting extremely thickly forested Mountanious areas will be the Equivelant of Carthage conquering Gaul from North Africa. Most likely Greece wouldnt wanted to Overextend itself and just remain in the Far wealthier Aegean possesions and maybe Resettling Greeks from Black sea towards these regions to better establish themselves.
@@ylmazirdenyazc8393 in the 6 regions of Pontus that Greeks claimed, there was a 80% Pontic Greek population (1.2 million). However, it is a fact that Greece would be overextended this way. Venizelos recognized this, and after a briefing with Germanos Karavangelis, the Archbishop of Trebizond, he said that Pontus should make a confederation with Armenia. However after Armenia was defeated by the soviets and Karabekir's forces, the Pontic Greeks declared the Union with Greece. This was only disbanded with the treaty of Lausanne
@@georgios_5342 dude there was no 80% greek majority in Black Sea region, most Ottoman sources as well as British maps and the Wikipedia wich once put the pictures of Coachroaches on the page "Turkish People" agrees that the Majority in the Eastern and Western Black Sea were Laz (a south Caucasian muslim people) and Chepnis (An Oghuz tribe that was originaly adhered to Alewite İslam but was later Sunnified) with significant Pontic Greek communities in Oph valley as well as Trebizond, Amisos and mostly smaller certain valleys, and the Number 1.200.000 isnt just the Pontic Greeks, its the total number of Pontic, Cappadocian and Aegean greeks as well as somewhere between 100.000 to 400.000 Karamanlides (Descendants of Turcopols who are basically Orthodox Central Anatolian Turks) it doesnt help that Ottoman Sources used Religion as distinction not Ethnic, meaning these Minorities within Pontus Region is Pontic Greeks and Armenians combines, for example there was a Catholic Armenian Community within city of Artvin whilst Borçka was inhabited by Muslim Georgians, whilst upwards were Čxala and Xopa Lazs, thats basicaly what the metrics you can Apply to rest of the Black sea.
@@MonsieurDean I hope you rot in hell. Did you get 10000 USD from Greeks or something? Even If I was a Greek I couldn't be this biased when making a video.
The situation in Greece shows that Venizelos made two key mistakes: 1. Never allow your figurehead king to be near monkeys. 2. When you depose a king, kill him. Otherwise he'll come back for his throne.
12:11 Archbishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna was brutally beaten to death and dismembered, his body parts were then paraded throughout the city to terrorize the Greeks. Numerous women were abducted, raped, or murdered inside their houses, and by the end of it, all Greeks had either died or fled to Greece, months before the "population exchange", which was in reality only a normalization of relations after the genocide had already happened
greek army burn smyrna and many greek populated cities when they retreat from central Anatolia, leaving almost half of anatolia in ruins, accusing turk for Smyrna burning doesnt make sense because advancing armies dont burn their own supply line and cities, houses and buildings of the conquered towns/cities can be used as supply depot, but retreating armies do burn everything when they retreating, its called scorch earth policy, so blame Greece and armenian thugs who work for them for setting Smyrna on fire.
The Genocide wasnt one sided by only Turks though, less then a decade before Balkan wars saw Millions of Muslim Refugees a good chunk being Balkan Muslims like Muslim Greeks, Pomaks, Albanians, alongside Balkan Turks, around 3-5 million fled between Greek war of İndependence and population exchange whilst 2-2.5 million lost their lives, this was also less than 30 years after 800.000 to 1.5 million Circassians forcibly exciled to Ottoman Empire fleeing the Genocide of their Homelands at the hands of the Russians (before you call me a liar, actual biased report is made by Justin McArthy wich i believe you are familiar for his renowned Denial stand (im not a denier thank god) he gives +5 million refugees and 5 million deaths so you can be sure that im not moving off some weird Agenda) Population exchange was merely the end point of Centuries of Ethnic conflict wich didnt Discriminated between neither Muslim or Christian or Civilian and Military. Unlike what international census would want you to believe.
What if the carlists managed to escape to the colonies (or took over Peru which had a lot of royalist support) Or maybe what if the Spanish governor general of the Philippines's plan to conquer china using japanese mercenaries went through Also really enjoyed the vid can't wait for more your definitely the most active alt history channel I know of so this is really scratching that itch
What if Germany was Balkanized after WW2? Say the British occupation zone restored the Kingdom of Hanover, the American zone became an independent democratic Bavaria, the French zone a series of protectorates like Saarland, Baden-Württemberg and Hesse, and the Soviet zone became communist Brandenburg and Saxony?
@@MonsieurDean Thanks! Heck, you could go even further with this timeline and have the Soviets keep the Germans in Kaliningrad and call it the Prussian SSR, and have Austria remain divided between East and West. The more German states you can create, the better 😂
@@morsecode980 we can probably go off of the former german states that joined (feel free to debate that) the habsburg in place like a northern tyrol, austria itself and more
The Russians supported a Greek state in Constantinople if you count renaming Constantinople to Tsargrad and settling it with Russians as well a possibly making it the Russian capital due to dynastic/religious aims counts as being Greek, the Russians would probably say it was because 'we are the Romans now' but I have a feeling many Greeks would contend that point, especially once the Russians start moving to annex the lost orthodox territories of Rome, like say Greece. And yeah it is a mostly western idea of the Greeks having connection to antiquity, the Byzantine link was much more relevant until ancient Greek fanboys started intervening in national diplomacy, with most of them being liberals and thus massively prejudiced against the byzantines in general and Christians in particular.
Im pretty sure if the greek army defeated and occupied ancyra, greece would have pushed for far more territory considering it wasn't only the shores of smyrna and constantinople having greek majority and minority populations
as a person who wrote his university thesis about war of Turkish independence this is bullshit even according to foreign sources Greeks and Armenians were huge minority not a minority
Hello from France, I like your channel very much . Just a few things. The Ottomans took Constantinople in 1453, not 1452. During the first world war, the Russians had beaten the Turks in Caucasus, before collapsing in 1917. Sèvres, little city in France near Paris, is pronounced something like ”Seavr” (with ”ea” like in ”bear ”).
12:41 You heard it guys. Eastern Thrace was never conquered by the Turks but given up on order of the British. You can thank them for the reason Constantinople is still Muslim.
Turkey would've take it either way. They were in a better position than Greece militarily and Eastern Thrace had a majority Turkish population. So not really Brits.
@@simulacrumpilot2777 The Turkish military wasn’t in a better position for most of the war and they only overcame after all the allies betrayed Greece and even started helping the Turks and the Greek economy collapsed which also happened because of the allies taking all of their money out of Greek banks. Also eastern Thrace had a majority Greek and Bulgarian population.
@@MonsieurDean Oops! My bad! I meant to write Franz Josef of Austria who was offered by the German Confederation to be first German emperor but on condition of relinquishing the crown of Hungary which he refused to do. I was wondering what might happen if he had accepted that condition.
5:32 true that. To this day, the majority of Greeks have partial or full Anatolian heritage, and were outraged for example when the Turkish government turned the Panagia Soumela Monastery in a night club, or Hagia Sophia into a Mosque
İf Soumela you meant is the one in Trebizond then its in a really good shape really, unlike the Hagia Sophia of Trebizond its still both a Museum and a major Tourist attraction, just like Mostar Bridge.
wtf? You think erdogan would allow night clubs?? That aside, the hagia sophia being open for religious usage again is being protested by İstanbul's local goverment, (Ekrem İmamoğlu being a major figure) and that night club thing, when??? I think you mean that one very preserved monastry built on a hillside in trabzon which is, VERY preserved and certainly NOT a night club.
Given the substantial troubles in the Soviet Union in the 20s, I find the idea of an actual Soviet-Allied war somewhat unlikely - more like a “Cold-war Prequel”, with substantial military support for the Turks. BUT, if you did see some sort of actual conflict and occupation of the SU, why not a restoration of the Romanov Dynasty? They WERE allied to Britain and France, were NOT friendly to the Turks, and at this point, Russia had only been under communism for maybe a decade or so.
The most likely outcome from this would be Greece and Turkey gradually taking the Italian and French held areas of Anatolia, while Armenia keeps its territory and Kurdistan likely starts to incorporate Kurdish areas in French Syria and British Iraq. With the loss in territory, do the Hashemites maintain Syria and Iraq and then merge with Jordan to form a Hashemite Kingdom of Arabia to counter Saudi Arabia? Do the Hashemites try to reclaim Mecca and their lands in the Arabian Peninsula? Is there still an Israel?
@@James-rf1wn lmao when did turks "crush and humiliate" Britain in war? I've checked my maps. Nope, the turks don't control Syria, they don't control Iraq, they don't control Jordan, they don't control hejaz.
what if the "Plan of casamata" never happens, the idea of a mexican empire led by iturbide would be interesting, Iturbide is a very underrated strategist, the mexican independence movement was likely destroyed by de spanish empire but iturbide with the "Ejercito trigarante" manage to do all de work. It will be interesting to see the war of 1846 with a (maybe) stable empire with a leader like iturbide
The Kingdom of Greece was established in 1830. In 1821 it was the beginning of the GREEK REVOLUTION that lead to the establishment of the kingdom of Greece in 1830.
Honestly I could see the monarchists negotiating control of Constantinople from Britain, who may give it up to prevent a civil war in Grease which would threaten their control of the region, this could prevent a civil war by giving the monarchists a lot more support and once the second world war happens the British would see the surrender of Constantinople to Grease as a justifiable decision since it would have prevented the rise of fascism in one of their allies.
-2:48 C in Cemal sounds like J in James. -1453 is the date Mehmed took Constantinople. -There is still a debate about which side started the İzmir fire. -I don't think Soviets would try that kind of idiotic move and lose like that. Turks wouldn't even want to join Soviets because of cultural reasons. A balanced foreign policy up to a point is more likely. -Also Turks had the majority in Italian and French influence zones and the Asian side of Marmara. We would get those lands back when they eventually leave. So, we'd end up with Anatolian peninsula without Izmir. After these, Turkey joining WW2 and Hitler wins scenario happens.
The fire was started by the Turkish army, burnt all of the Greek and Armenian mahallas, and was quickly put out after that, leaving the Turkish one largely intact. In the entire world, there is a consensus that the Turkish army started the fire, the only place where this "debate" exists is in Turkey (just like the rejection of the Armenian Genocide). Furthermore, Greeks were the majority in Eastern Thrace, Constantinople and Bithynia, so if it was put to a vote, the zone of the Straights would more likely become a part of Greece rather than Turkey. Finally, it is very unlikely that Turkey on the Axis would be enough to make Germany win the Second World War, seeing as the balance of powers would have logically still led the USA against Germany, and Germany would have likely still commenced operation Barbarossa. Germany against the USSR, Britain and America was always going to lose. Turkey on the Axis might have made that a little harder, but still that would be counterbalanced by Armenia, Kurdistan and a larger and stronger Greece. But it's true that the Soviets would most likely not confront the Europeans directly.
@@georgios_5342 while i believe that greece was responsible for the war over smyrna (its a better name than izmir fight me) demonizing one side while claiming that the other side were the heroic peacekeepers would be ignorant (just like in every single conflict in history) the greeks committed many atroticities towards the muslim turks of smyrna while the retaking of izmir wasnt all sunshines and rainbows as most of the orthodox greek population of izmir were significantly oppressed by ultra-nationalistic soldiers and citizens Now thanks for putting me on Erdoğan’s watchlist just before the election (love from the eastern side)
@@georgios_5342 while i believe that greece was responsible for the war over smyrna (its a better name than izmir fight me) demonizing one side while claiming that the other side were the heroic peacekeepers would be ignorant (just like in every single conflict in history) the greeks committed many atroticities towards the muslim turks of smyrna while the retaking of izmir wasnt all sunshines and rainbows as most of the orthodox greek population of izmir were significantly oppressed by ultra-nationalistic soldiers and citizens Now thanks for putting me on Erdoğan’s watchlist just before the election (love from the eastern side)
@@georgios_5342 Dude im sorry but there are few things i would love to correct, if there was an İnternational consesus that the fire was indeed started by Turks by Direct orders of Atatürk, it wouldnt be a Debate to begin with, do you see any Debates within İnternational consensus over Armenian genocide? Or Seyfo? Nope because these are actual events you used to describe Smyrna situtation, unless Paul Grescovich is certainly proved to be lying for a reason even after Turkish army Arrested half of his crew for being greeks leaving him with only half the numbers to deal with the fire. Most İnternational Consesus agree's that it was the Turkish İnaction in putting down the fires are seen as the main contributor to the catastrophe, not them starting the fire. Since at this point main Turkish Army didnt entered the City center since American, British and French warships were waiting at the Harbor ready to open fire, wich meant Turks only had the Upper parts of the City under their control and they werent İnfantry but Artillery divisions, and these Allied ships would later be really important in evacuating the rest of the Cities surviving inhabitans.
greece,bulgaria, yugoslavia, italy and possibly rommania and hungry all end up in a new balkan war over the territory. the british and french are busy fighting local uprisings for the next decade which proabbly leads the french to have a much bigger military in 1939 and a more agressive foreign policy.
Together with Russia? That would shorten the war significantly. Also Bulgaria may stay neutral as they would feel surrounded... I d say in 1916 peace would be signed with defeat of Germany and survival of both Russian and Ottoman empires.
sad fact is Greece can never threaten Türkiye again since the last 100 years Greece population grew around 5m when turkeys grew around 70 million, Türkiye also has a economy around 5x larger, and Greece is ranked 32 globally in the world for their military whereas Türkiye is 8th..
Even by some miracle they were able to pull that off, it wouldn't have changed much. The various minorities were going to rebel anyway, and Europe was bound to exploit it, Ottomans were doomed.
What aid did the French give to Turks? What aid did the Italians give to Turks? Do we consider captured wepons as aid now? Then we can also say Greece helped Turkish war of Independence. Only soviets sent rifles and thats it.
French aid 10.000 rifle 1.500 machine gun 1.500 crate of ammunition 10 aircraft 200 truck 1 gunpowder factory 3 telegraph station 10 hangar Italian aid 20.000 rifle 20 aircraft 4.310.000 bullet 97.000 kg gunpowder
So... if Constantine I was never born or was assassinated by some luck, a German, then this whole degredation of Greek Reconquista wouldn't had happened and Greece might had united Turkish lands with its own with the Re-hellenization of Anatolia as the Turks are mostly the same people genetically to what had lived in Anatolia since Eastern Roman Times. Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark seems to be a suitable alternative to Constantine as he abdicated, assassinated, died or was never born. King Andrew of Greece. His heir would had been Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, husband to Elizabeth II. So basically King Philip. When he passed away, their son Charles, yes Charles III would be the King of Greece and the United Kingdom. Basically Greece would be part of the United Kingdom, the Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Greece. This would be odd since the UK is largely a Protestant Country or Set of Countries while Greece is profoundly Orthodox. A good way around this is that the King is just a ceremonial figurehead who shares responsibilities with the Patriarch of Constantinople who is entirely independent of the Crown, thereby keeping the Country, Orthodox. The Good Part of this is that it would make the UK and Greece allies prior to their unification and it would make Turkey pretty much non-existant. They would probably join the Axis Powers, lose, fall under the control of an Ambitious Soviet General and become part of the Soviet Union. This of course being Eastern Turkey as the West would still be under Helleno-British control. There would be a Turkish Republic, but it would be very weak and easily lose Eastern lands to the Kurds, making it even smaller. Pretty much just Central Anatolia and the Black Sea Coast along with Mersin and Adana as the rest would be either Greek, Armenian or Kurdish and no Hatay taken from Syria. Greece had also annexed Cyprus too and Greece would be one of the consituent countries of the United Kingdom.
What if Europe, Middle East, America and Africa had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?
What a disgusting and racist thing to say. This why the crimes AGAINST Turks aren't mentioned and even accepted. Because of terrible disgusting people like you. Make the same comment about black people or Jewish people. I dare you.
I don't think it's accurate to say the Ottomans only won at Gallipoli. They managed to force the British invasion of Mesopotamia to surrender, and they held their line in Palestine against the British for a long time, throwing back a lot of attacks on Gaza, before they lost at Beersheba.
1:10 not absolute rule. Unfortunately I needed to unsubscribe after you massively broked your “neutrality” in this video. Also there are some big mistakes about Turks and ottomans we can discuss this in Discord with sources and documents. If you want it you can show me your sources too. Thank you.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Ask Monsieur Z Anything.
@MonsieurDean What countries you’ve ever been? and What country you’d like to visit?
@@doomi4055 I've been around most of North America, but I'd love to see the UK, Austria, Italy, and some of the Balkan states some day.
Why did you make a 100% one-sided video ? Atrocities weren't only commited by Turks but also Greeks, no mention of any of that ofc
What are your views on Monarchies and why do you like Tsar Nicholas II so much?
How have you been since the fall of the site?
5:44 minor error, Constantinople fell in 1453, not 1452.
Immersion ruined, now I have to neutralize my friends and family and go on the run as an international fugitive.
I’m sorry man, I just gotta
Ye
11:00 this is often forgotten, but after November 1920, virtually all of the allies of Greece betrayed it AND even stole its money that was stored in American and British banks for the duration of the war. If they had an issue with Constantine, they could have deposed him yet again. The real reason they changed sides was because, after satisfying their own needs by making gains in the Levant, they didn't care at all about the Greeks and Armenians.
Which was a mistake.
@@eidoneverchoosen1171 It is not because they didn't cared but they didn't had the money and the power to figth against Turks in their homeland which is very mountainus.
@@youravaragetoxicmasculinem9508 their also the fact the British primary didn't want any other European power to threaten their global hegemon,, co steering many European empires care only about getting more resource rich lands for themselves. This is why Europe great empires fell.
You don't "betray" a puppet
(Greeks, Armenians, Arabs)
You let it go. (British)
Turks did not have a chance had it not been for the bolsheviks, the Italians and the French. Yet even under those circumstances the Greeks could have handled Asia Minor but they were divided. Hence the salvation.
14:05 if Greece had taken over Ankara all by itself, it is very unlikely that the Treaty of Sevres would actually be enacted as had been initially signed. The treaty would be renegotiated, in a way that Greece would take more territory in Western Anatolia (most likely the regions of Mysia and Bithynia, which had large Greek populations) as well as North Eastern Anatolia, were the large Pontic Greek populations resided. Italy would also lose all of its possessions in Anatolia, as it had already made a separate agreement with Turkey, which allowed it to pass troops through the Italian zone, and Greece vowed to eliminate the Italian zone, even if it meant that Turkey would be given the land. And, after all that, it is more likely than not that Greece would attempt to take over Constantinople, to complete the Megali Idea
Yeah that made me go "WHAT!?" Why would Greece ever go along with handing territory over to Italy? Massive L there.
@@1212Diablo Yeah Italy wasn't going to get that land in the first place, especially since they only controlled a small part in the coast. But after allowing the Turks to enter, the zone was essentially lost for them. But also, regardless of that, Greece and Italy had a large rivalry over the naval dominance in the Eastern Mediterranean, with Britain generally supporting Greece. This naval "cold war" was especially evidenced in Albania (where Italy demanded that Greece should retreat from Northern Epirus, and leave it to its Albanian protectorate) and in the Dodecanese (an island chain in the southeastern Aegean, inhabited by Greeks, but colonized by Italy). Also, Italy contested the Greek control of Smyrna. Greece wouldn't just hand over massive amounts of lands to their rivals, especially if Greece was in a position of strength.
Even though those Regions Greece could take had large Greek Populations, Muslims were still a Majority in many places, even though Aegean Coast would be easier to hold due to its closeness and being more Urbanized, Black Sea regions, with their still Larger Muslim majority, composed of Warlike Chepnis and Lazs especialy in Eastern Black Sea İnhabiting extremely thickly forested Mountanious areas will be the Equivelant of Carthage conquering Gaul from North Africa. Most likely Greece wouldnt wanted to Overextend itself and just remain in the Far wealthier Aegean possesions and maybe Resettling Greeks from Black sea towards these regions to better establish themselves.
@@ylmazirdenyazc8393 in the 6 regions of Pontus that Greeks claimed, there was a 80% Pontic Greek population (1.2 million). However, it is a fact that Greece would be overextended this way. Venizelos recognized this, and after a briefing with Germanos Karavangelis, the Archbishop of Trebizond, he said that Pontus should make a confederation with Armenia. However after Armenia was defeated by the soviets and Karabekir's forces, the Pontic Greeks declared the Union with Greece. This was only disbanded with the treaty of Lausanne
@@georgios_5342 dude there was no 80% greek majority in Black Sea region, most Ottoman sources as well as British maps and the Wikipedia wich once put the pictures of Coachroaches on the page "Turkish People" agrees that the Majority in the Eastern and Western Black Sea were Laz (a south Caucasian muslim people) and Chepnis (An Oghuz tribe that was originaly adhered to Alewite İslam but was later Sunnified) with significant Pontic Greek communities in Oph valley as well as Trebizond, Amisos and mostly smaller certain valleys, and the Number 1.200.000 isnt just the Pontic Greeks, its the total number of Pontic, Cappadocian and Aegean greeks as well as somewhere between 100.000 to 400.000 Karamanlides (Descendants of Turcopols who are basically Orthodox Central Anatolian Turks) it doesnt help that Ottoman Sources used Religion as distinction not Ethnic, meaning these Minorities within Pontus Region is Pontic Greeks and Armenians combines, for example there was a Catholic Armenian Community within city of Artvin whilst Borçka was inhabited by Muslim Georgians, whilst upwards were Čxala and Xopa Lazs, thats basicaly what the metrics you can Apply to rest of the Black sea.
Wwhatifalthist's heart broke just because this video exists
😂😂
@@MonsieurDean I hope you rot in hell. Did you get 10000 USD from Greeks or something? Even If I was a Greek I couldn't be this biased when making a video.
Why?
@@fatheadgaming3584 because he is a hardcore Turkey fan
@@JustAToeBee lol
I'M FINALLY FREE. But in all seriousness, thanks for having me on this month, this was awesome to do.
Your channel is amazing Josh
good stuff josh!
I’ve always loved your channel
Yes! More collaborations! Love you guys for the amazing work!
Monsieur 🤝 Josh
The situation in Greece shows that Venizelos made two key mistakes:
1. Never allow your figurehead king to be near monkeys.
2. When you depose a king, kill him. Otherwise he'll come back for his throne.
Biggest thing is that you should never allow elections during war time
12:11 Archbishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna was brutally beaten to death and dismembered, his body parts were then paraded throughout the city to terrorize the Greeks. Numerous women were abducted, raped, or murdered inside their houses, and by the end of it, all Greeks had either died or fled to Greece, months before the "population exchange", which was in reality only a normalization of relations after the genocide had already happened
greek army burn smyrna and many greek populated cities when they retreat from central Anatolia, leaving almost half of anatolia in ruins, accusing turk for Smyrna burning doesnt make sense because advancing armies dont burn their own supply line and cities, houses and buildings of the conquered towns/cities can be used as supply depot, but retreating armies do burn everything when they retreating, its called scorch earth policy, so blame Greece and armenian thugs who work for them for setting Smyrna on fire.
The Genocide wasnt one sided by only Turks though, less then a decade before Balkan wars saw Millions of Muslim Refugees a good chunk being Balkan Muslims like Muslim Greeks, Pomaks, Albanians, alongside Balkan Turks, around 3-5 million fled between Greek war of İndependence and population exchange whilst 2-2.5 million lost their lives, this was also less than 30 years after 800.000 to 1.5 million Circassians forcibly exciled to Ottoman Empire fleeing the Genocide of their Homelands at the hands of the Russians (before you call me a liar, actual biased report is made by Justin McArthy wich i believe you are familiar for his renowned Denial stand (im not a denier thank god) he gives +5 million refugees and 5 million deaths so you can be sure that im not moving off some weird Agenda) Population exchange was merely the end point of Centuries of Ethnic conflict wich didnt Discriminated between neither Muslim or Christian or Civilian and Military. Unlike what international census would want you to believe.
Interesting Georgios.
Now tell everyone what the Greeks did.
Most normal turkic activity
We love Josh don't we folks
We certainly do! He's not sussy Josh anymore. He's beautiful Josh.
@@MonsieurDean 😢
Aged like milk
What if the carlists managed to escape to the colonies (or took over Peru which had a lot of royalist support)
Or maybe what if the Spanish governor general of the Philippines's plan to conquer china using japanese mercenaries went through
Also really enjoyed the vid can't wait for more your definitely the most active alt history channel I know of so this is really scratching that itch
We're glad to have you! Hope to you in the comments again next week!
Before I even watch this, *BASED*
Correct.
What if Germany was Balkanized after WW2? Say the British occupation zone restored the Kingdom of Hanover, the American zone became an independent democratic Bavaria, the French zone a series of protectorates like Saarland, Baden-Württemberg and Hesse, and the Soviet zone became communist Brandenburg and Saxony?
That's a clever idea.
@@MonsieurDean Thanks! Heck, you could go even further with this timeline and have the Soviets keep the Germans in Kaliningrad and call it the Prussian SSR, and have Austria remain divided between East and West. The more German states you can create, the better 😂
@@morsecode980 we can probably go off of the former german states that joined (feel free to debate that) the habsburg in place like a northern tyrol, austria itself and more
Blessed timeline!
Awesome, next part would be great
10:20
"It was a monkey bite that cost the lives of 250,000 people" ~ Winston Churchill
13:38 is when the scenario starts.
RUclips has not notified me for a month that you have made a video.
Thanks RUclips
15:17 not only Constantinople, but also Cyprus, which was another important part of the Megali Idea
The Russians supported a Greek state in Constantinople if you count renaming Constantinople to Tsargrad and settling it with Russians as well a possibly making it the Russian capital due to dynastic/religious aims counts as being Greek, the Russians would probably say it was because 'we are the Romans now' but I have a feeling many Greeks would contend that point, especially once the Russians start moving to annex the lost orthodox territories of Rome, like say Greece. And yeah it is a mostly western idea of the Greeks having connection to antiquity, the Byzantine link was much more relevant until ancient Greek fanboys started intervening in national diplomacy, with most of them being liberals and thus massively prejudiced against the byzantines in general and Christians in particular.
13:49 The Greek names of these cities are Δορύλαιον and Κοτύαιον respectively. They are easier to pronounce.
Based 🇬🇷
go eat your pita leonidas
Sorry it's turkish forever now 🇹🇷
My greek brother, with all my dear condulances, stfu, both turkish and greek is hard af to pronounce for westerners, sincerely, your turkic brotheren.
@@beetrootsoup3130 based turkish
If only this was released on Thanksgiving with a different title…
Im pretty sure if the greek army defeated and occupied ancyra, greece would have pushed for far more territory considering it wasn't only the shores of smyrna and constantinople having greek majority and minority populations
as a person who wrote his university thesis about war of Turkish independence this is bullshit even according to foreign sources Greeks and Armenians were huge minority not a minority
Hello from France, I like your channel very much . Just a few things. The Ottomans took Constantinople in 1453, not 1452. During the first world war, the Russians had beaten the Turks in Caucasus, before collapsing in 1917. Sèvres, little city in France near Paris, is pronounced something like ”Seavr” (with ”ea” like in ”bear ”).
Russia did beaten SHITI in caucasus the russian fell to occupied estarn anatolian I'ven with the help of the British 😂
12:41 You heard it guys. Eastern Thrace was never conquered by the Turks but given up on order of the British. You can thank them for the reason Constantinople is still Muslim.
As a Turkish person who visited Greece many times Istanbul is more secular than any Greek city.
Turkey would've take it either way. They were in a better position than Greece militarily and Eastern Thrace had a majority Turkish population.
So not really Brits.
Damn anglo-judas,traitors of evropa
@@loseyourself5023 only time i agreed to a turk
@@simulacrumpilot2777 The Turkish military wasn’t in a better position for most of the war and they only overcame after all the allies betrayed Greece and even started helping the Turks and the Greek economy collapsed which also happened because of the allies taking all of their money out of Greek banks. Also eastern Thrace had a majority Greek and Bulgarian population.
What if Franz Ferdinand of Austria had become first German emperor?
EDIT: Franz Josef of Austria
How?
@@MonsieurDean Oops! My bad! I meant to write Franz Josef of Austria who was offered by the German Confederation to be first German emperor but on condition of relinquishing the crown of Hungary which he refused to do. I was wondering what might happen if he had accepted that condition.
@@theinterestingcompany3191 LOL. I have edited my original comment to correct the name.
Megali idea basically means big idea
5:32 true that. To this day, the majority of Greeks have partial or full Anatolian heritage, and were outraged for example when the Turkish government turned the Panagia Soumela Monastery in a night club, or Hagia Sophia into a Mosque
When did the night club thing happen
İf Soumela you meant is the one in Trebizond then its in a really good shape really, unlike the Hagia Sophia of Trebizond its still both a Museum and a major Tourist attraction, just like Mostar Bridge.
wtf? You think erdogan would allow night clubs?? That aside, the hagia sophia being open for religious usage again is being protested by İstanbul's local goverment, (Ekrem İmamoğlu being a major figure) and that night club thing, when??? I think you mean that one very preserved monastry built on a hillside in trabzon which is, VERY preserved and certainly NOT a night club.
When was the Souméla Monastery turned into a night club..?
Welp as Turkic this is gonna be a interesting video
Let’s go to the comment section surely it’s gonna be kind and wholesome..
"The Descent of the Turk into the Den of Crusaders"
A novel by Monsieur Z, coming soon.
I hope Monsieur Z makes a video in favor of Turkey. Like what if the Turks converted to christianity?
@@cursedwanderer1753 or what if turkey abandons west (it won't be degen and dragqueens wont exist)
In you dreams you infidels convert to ISLAM @@cursedwanderer1753
My family was in the massacre of Smyrna and one escaped by pretending to be a girl and the others were starved to death
And my great great fathers village was burned by the greek army
@@talzzz1546should have stayed in Central Asia
@@Juan-qu4oj no
@@talzzz1546 yeah Turks got a taste of their own medicine
troonjak-ACK!
Given the substantial troubles in the Soviet Union in the 20s, I find the idea of an actual Soviet-Allied war somewhat unlikely - more like a “Cold-war Prequel”, with substantial military support for the Turks. BUT, if you did see some sort of actual conflict and occupation of the SU, why not a restoration of the Romanov Dynasty? They WERE allied to Britain and France, were NOT friendly to the Turks, and at this point, Russia had only been under communism for maybe a decade or so.
Thank you.
9:41 woooo goooo Venizelos for Megali Idea!!! 🎉🎉🎉
ah yes, a better timeline
The most likely outcome from this would be Greece and Turkey gradually taking the Italian and French held areas of Anatolia, while Armenia keeps its territory and Kurdistan likely starts to incorporate Kurdish areas in French Syria and British Iraq. With the loss in territory, do the Hashemites maintain Syria and Iraq and then merge with Jordan to form a Hashemite Kingdom of Arabia to counter Saudi Arabia? Do the Hashemites try to reclaim Mecca and their lands in the Arabian Peninsula? Is there still an Israel?
What if George 1 of Greece survived his Assassination in thessalonica
I really hoped this Video was about what if Turkey was actually a turkey
We will capture him again!
🤣🤣 This edit...
@@MonsieurDean just a bit of trolling
1:28 why are there also Greek flags in the back here? And everything written in Greek, Turkish and French?
Everyone who isn't turkish or Azerbaijani: *CELLLLLLLEBRATIONS TIME NOW COME ON*
😂😂
Hell yes! 🇦🇲
Turks and Azerbaijanis: mad noises
So this is what happens when you get crushed and humiliated on the battlefield....
You resort to making silly videos and silly comments.
@@James-rf1wn lmao when did turks "crush and humiliate" Britain in war?
I've checked my maps. Nope, the turks don't control Syria, they don't control Iraq, they don't control Jordan, they don't control hejaz.
Got to be honest, wasn’t expecting the monkey incident.
it was probably germans or pro germans who assassinated the king to bring back Constantine.
I’ve been saying this for a while now. “What if the Black Sea Raid was foiled?” It would make a good counterpart to this video.
King Charles III is the emperor of Byzantium, via his father.
Bruh, this was 80% History and 20% what if...
I like ur videos
THE BEST ALT HISTORY TIMELINE
what if the "Plan of casamata" never happens, the idea of a mexican empire led by iturbide would be interesting, Iturbide is a very underrated strategist, the mexican independence movement was likely destroyed by de spanish empire but iturbide with the "Ejercito trigarante" manage to do all de work. It will be interesting to see the war of 1846 with a (maybe) stable empire with a leader like iturbide
Beautiful Timeline
Worst timeline
No hate for Josh but I kinda wish Z would do these videos himself.
I will return.
The Kingdom of Greece was established in 1830. In 1821 it was the beginning of the GREEK REVOLUTION that lead to the establishment of the kingdom of Greece in 1830.
Honestly I could see the monarchists negotiating control of Constantinople from Britain, who may give it up to prevent a civil war in Grease which would threaten their control of the region, this could prevent a civil war by giving the monarchists a lot more support and once the second world war happens the British would see the surrender of Constantinople to Grease as a justifiable decision since it would have prevented the rise of fascism in one of their allies.
-2:48 C in Cemal sounds like J in James.
-1453 is the date Mehmed took Constantinople.
-There is still a debate about which side started the İzmir fire.
-I don't think Soviets would try that kind of idiotic move and lose like that. Turks wouldn't even want to join Soviets because of cultural reasons. A balanced foreign policy up to a point is more likely.
-Also Turks had the majority in Italian and French influence zones and the Asian side of Marmara. We would get those lands back when they eventually leave. So, we'd end up with Anatolian peninsula without Izmir. After these, Turkey joining WW2 and Hitler wins scenario happens.
You know that most of these probably come from biased sources mostly demonizing turkey instead of having a neutral opinion?
The fire was started by the Turkish army, burnt all of the Greek and Armenian mahallas, and was quickly put out after that, leaving the Turkish one largely intact. In the entire world, there is a consensus that the Turkish army started the fire, the only place where this "debate" exists is in Turkey (just like the rejection of the Armenian Genocide).
Furthermore, Greeks were the majority in Eastern Thrace, Constantinople and Bithynia, so if it was put to a vote, the zone of the Straights would more likely become a part of Greece rather than Turkey.
Finally, it is very unlikely that Turkey on the Axis would be enough to make Germany win the Second World War, seeing as the balance of powers would have logically still led the USA against Germany, and Germany would have likely still commenced operation Barbarossa. Germany against the USSR, Britain and America was always going to lose. Turkey on the Axis might have made that a little harder, but still that would be counterbalanced by Armenia, Kurdistan and a larger and stronger Greece.
But it's true that the Soviets would most likely not confront the Europeans directly.
@@georgios_5342 while i believe that greece was responsible for the war over smyrna (its a better name than izmir fight me) demonizing one side while claiming that the other side were the heroic peacekeepers would be ignorant (just like in every single conflict in history) the greeks committed many atroticities towards the muslim turks of smyrna while the retaking of izmir wasnt all sunshines and rainbows as most of the orthodox greek population of izmir were significantly oppressed by ultra-nationalistic soldiers and citizens
Now thanks for putting me on Erdoğan’s watchlist just before the election (love from the eastern side)
@@georgios_5342 while i believe that greece was responsible for the war over smyrna (its a better name than izmir fight me) demonizing one side while claiming that the other side were the heroic peacekeepers would be ignorant (just like in every single conflict in history) the greeks committed many atroticities towards the muslim turks of smyrna while the retaking of izmir wasnt all sunshines and rainbows as most of the orthodox greek population of izmir were significantly oppressed by ultra-nationalistic soldiers and citizens
Now thanks for putting me on Erdoğan’s watchlist just before the election (love from the eastern side)
@@georgios_5342 Dude im sorry but there are few things i would love to correct, if there was an İnternational consesus that the fire was indeed started by Turks by Direct orders of Atatürk, it wouldnt be a Debate to begin with, do you see any Debates within İnternational consensus over Armenian genocide? Or Seyfo? Nope because these are actual events you used to describe Smyrna situtation, unless Paul Grescovich is certainly proved to be lying for a reason even after Turkish army Arrested half of his crew for being greeks leaving him with only half the numbers to deal with the fire.
Most İnternational Consesus agree's that it was the Turkish İnaction in putting down the fires are seen as the main contributor to the catastrophe, not them starting the fire. Since at this point main Turkish Army didnt entered the City center since American, British and French warships were waiting at the Harbor ready to open fire, wich meant Turks only had the Upper parts of the City under their control and they werent İnfantry but Artillery divisions, and these Allied ships would later be really important in evacuating the rest of the Cities surviving inhabitans.
5:44 it was in the year 1453 my friend
Almost the best timeline.
It's much better that this never happened.
Other great alt histories “if Islam never existed” and “if the Seljuks never took control of Anatolia”
@@simulacrumpilot2777 no it’s not
@@sidequestenjoyer7037No, it's better never to have that happen
greece,bulgaria, yugoslavia, italy and possibly rommania and hungry all end up in a new balkan war over the territory. the british and french are busy fighting local uprisings for the next decade which proabbly leads the french to have a much bigger military in 1939 and a more agressive foreign policy.
It will be much better than our timeline. 😊😊😊
tru
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:*
What if The Ottoman Empire had joined The Allies in World War I?
Together with Russia? That would shorten the war significantly. Also Bulgaria may stay neutral as they would feel surrounded... I d say in 1916 peace would be signed with defeat of Germany and survival of both Russian and Ottoman empires.
The idea that they would make Russia a free government is kinda dumb.
sad fact is Greece can never threaten Türkiye again since the last 100 years Greece population grew around 5m when turkeys grew around 70 million, Türkiye also has a economy around 5x larger, and Greece is ranked 32 globally in the world for their military whereas Türkiye is 8th..
5:48 * it's actually May 1453
What if Prohibition never happened? What if the Business Plot had succeeded?
Could you make your alternate histroy of the world, episodes and a movie for a final?
POV :
If turkey partitioned, the whole world would go to a new war...
What if the Ottoman Empire had remained fully, utterly, and entirely neutral in World War 1?
Even by some miracle they were able to pull that off, it wouldn't have changed much. The various minorities were going to rebel anyway, and Europe was bound to exploit it, Ottomans were doomed.
good ending for ottos
@@charlieread2097 -12 iq
@@charlieread2097 that responce enough for you. you do not deserve more than that
@@charlieread2097 Who are these "Kemal Johnsons"? I have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about?
Good ending
What aid did the French give to Turks?
What aid did the Italians give to Turks? Do we consider captured wepons as aid now? Then we can also say Greece helped Turkish war of Independence. Only soviets sent rifles and thats it.
French aid
10.000 rifle
1.500 machine gun
1.500 crate of ammunition
10 aircraft
200 truck
1 gunpowder factory
3 telegraph station
10 hangar
Italian aid
20.000 rifle
20 aircraft
4.310.000 bullet
97.000 kg gunpowder
@gllmll7227
I know the Soviet help.
Where is the source for Italian and French help.
@@U87-z2w "Kurtuluş savaşının mali kaynakları" Alptekin Müderrisoğlu
Now, I have to sub to Josh . . .
If you don't, Josh will turn you into alternate history.
@@MonsieurDean Binging his entire channel, now!
Nice
What if poland lost the 1st war against the Soviet Union?
So... if Constantine I was never born or was assassinated by some luck, a German, then this whole degredation of Greek Reconquista wouldn't had happened and Greece might had united Turkish lands with its own with the Re-hellenization of Anatolia as the Turks are mostly the same people genetically to what had lived in Anatolia since Eastern Roman Times.
Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark seems to be a suitable alternative to Constantine as he abdicated, assassinated, died or was never born.
King Andrew of Greece. His heir would had been Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, husband to Elizabeth II. So basically King Philip. When he passed away, their son Charles, yes Charles III would be the King of Greece and the United Kingdom. Basically Greece would be part of the United Kingdom, the Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Greece. This would be odd since the UK is largely a Protestant Country or Set of Countries while Greece is profoundly Orthodox. A good way around this is that the King is just a ceremonial figurehead who shares responsibilities with the Patriarch of Constantinople who is entirely independent of the Crown, thereby keeping the Country, Orthodox.
The Good Part of this is that it would make the UK and Greece allies prior to their unification and it would make Turkey pretty much non-existant. They would probably join the Axis Powers, lose, fall under the control of an Ambitious Soviet General and become part of the Soviet Union. This of course being Eastern Turkey as the West would still be under Helleno-British control.
There would be a Turkish Republic, but it would be very weak and easily lose Eastern lands to the Kurds, making it even smaller. Pretty much just Central Anatolia and the Black Sea Coast along with Mersin and Adana as the rest would be either Greek, Armenian or Kurdish and no Hatay taken from Syria. Greece had also annexed Cyprus too and Greece would be one of the consituent countries of the United Kingdom.
Also where is the MrAsianPie collab?
Maybe in the near future!
A dream all of Europe and the Middle East will wish came true!
too bad for your lgbt jew brain it never came 🤭🤭🤭 now you have to deal with turkish family in playground
The based timeline where the megali idea is finally established
What if the Phoenicians in Greeks colonized Britain
2:46 it is cemal pasha if you pronunce it as kemal that would be totalt different name cemal pronunce like "che-mal" not "key" mal
What if the young turks were actually young?
So now it's time for Scar nicholas part 4? if logic is right?
We've been waiting on one more voice actor.
@@MonsieurDean I see, Can't wait and Hope for the Best! It a Good series!
The "C" in Cemal is pronounced more like a "J". Djemal is the English version of it.
When should the next Scar Nicholas video be ready?
We're waiting on one voice actor.
What if Europe, Middle East, America and Africa had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?
Josh is free
What if the first balkan war became a world war ?
hi josh
Legit 4 minutes of actual content
WHERE ALL THE ANGRY TURKS AT? 😂😂😂😂😂🤑🤑🤑
👽👽👽
why should we be sad? u have to be 12 or something
@@AnqeLo99 cuz usually when there’s a video relating to let’s say this one. There are usually a few Turks exploding in the comments.
I think the Turks are used to the biased and hypocrisy.
damn bro is really obsessed and mad at the turkic folk hahahaha love it
What if the Ottoman Empire joined the Triple Entente (The Allies)?
10:21 Wtf do you mean "A monkey killed him"??????????? Like an actual monkey? How?
5:44 it wasn't 1452 it was 1453 when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans
Any timeline without Turkey is a good timeline
What a disgusting and racist thing to say.
This why the crimes AGAINST Turks aren't mentioned and even accepted.
Because of terrible disgusting people like you.
Make the same comment about black people or Jewish people.
I dare you.
explain why
@@ahmebrolab502 because Turkey is a blight on the world and a genocidal menace.
@@ahmebrolab502because TURKS have no friends but only TURKS
they killed christians
Then prince Philip never would have fled to England and marrying queen Elizabeth
Day 66 of asking for what if the Zulu beat the British out of South Africa, and what if the Turks helped them out
All of South Africa would become rightfully Turkish.
@@MonsieurDean are u saying it isn’t currently??
@@indianpotatofarmer6508 I thought it was chinese.
@@MonsieurDean something like that
17:28 Poland doesnt gain any land?
Where the heck is scar nicholas 4? I'm tired waiting
Will you do what if greece won the war against turky at 1919 ?
there are so many small errors in this video, l cant even begin to list them
Constantinople is not incorporated into Greece
Greeks: *fuming with rage*
I don't think it's accurate to say the Ottomans only won at Gallipoli. They managed to force the British invasion of Mesopotamia to surrender, and they held their line in Palestine against the British for a long time, throwing back a lot of attacks on Gaza, before they lost at Beersheba.
Free Cyprus Constantinople and Smyrni
Way don't you try it
From?
@@shafsteryellow from turkgay
Soon…
5:45 Constantinople fell in 1453, not 1452.
1:10 not absolute rule. Unfortunately I needed to unsubscribe after you massively broked your “neutrality” in this video. Also there are some big mistakes about Turks and ottomans we can discuss this in Discord with sources and documents. If you want it you can show me your sources too.
Thank you.