What if the Ottoman Empire NEVER collapsed?
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2024
- The Ottoman Empire, often called the Sick Man of Europe famously collapsed after the First World War. They would be left with just these territories, but the Ottoman Sultanate would continue to rule. Mustafa Kemal didn’t like this one bit, so he took over and managed to reclaim many territories, giving birth to the Turkish nation.
But what would happen if the Ottoman Empire never collapsed and remained as a powerhouse in the Middle East and the Balkans up until the modern day? The most important question is how they would achieve this, and I bet I’ve thought of the best possible way for this to happen.
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This channel is a haven for those who crave intellectual stimulation and love to ponder the profound "what ifs" of history. Join our passionate community of history enthusiasts, where engaging discussions and insightful commentaries fuel our collective imagination.
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As one of the 14% who voted for the Ottomans on the poll, seeing this is a HUGE Relief.
I agree
I voted ottomans aswell
Same
I made that video before the poll, then it was like bottom placed and I was sad, so I decided to make the video anyways! :D
@@rewriting-history thank you, can you do a video centred on armenia please if you can
Bro Bosnia was Turkey's favourite european elayet why did you split it like that 💀
Making the Ottoman Empire in a federation was an option I wouldn’t have thought of, but it works effectively! Great video!
Glad you liked it!
@@rewriting-history did you make danubian federation?
Fun fact, the crown of Carol I of Romania was made out of a canon from the battle of Pleven
Oh nice, i think i had heard it somewhere as it sounds familiar!
We did it boys we gotta a alt history where the ottomans survive
Big W
When the sick man gets cured
Hahah nice!
LOVE your content! Keep going!
Thank you, will do!
Love this channel, it’s so underrated keep going.
Ive been waiting for a timeline like this for about a Year or Two. This Pleases my Eyes
Appreciate that, hope you liked it!
Enjoyed this video, good job
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice explanation thx^^
Glad you liked it!
Cue Habsburgs sweating VERY nervously.
There are no habsburgs
(Austrian Empire was Habsburg-led)
W video (even if u regretted it afterwards or smt) 🔥🔥its cool to see more ottoman empire videos! ❤️
Glad you enjoyed!
Amazing take on preventing the collapse of the Ottomans! A really interesting scenario! Can’t wait to see what must be next!
Appreciate that, I will do Britain next! :)
The creation of a Jewish state as part of an Ottoman federation is interesting though unrealistic. I imagine the partition of the holy land within the federation would be almost as thorny as the partition issue in our timeline.
It wouldn't be thorny at all. The Jewish population of the region pre ww1 was about 5%. It wouldn't even be a question without Britain colonising it
You're right, but I did 3 or 4 disclaimers that this is not realistic and not meant to be taken seriously
@@mappingshaman5280 yeah there werent that many jews there before zionist movement, although maybe palestine region becomes autonomous as "the holy land" so it encompasses the needs of all the fates there
@@Sadnessiuseless the sultan also rejected a deal when the Zionist wanted to buy off Palestinian lands so most likely even if it became an automous region it will be a federal state of levant/Palestine.
why not make one inside europe, where there were more of them?
Very nice video brother, enjoyed it!
Appreciate that very much!
Ofcourse , This timeline could only be true with
1)RewritingHistory fails art school in Bulgaria and joins the Fr*nch army and after the great war becomes the Br*tish prime minister and leads the br*tish empire to Glory.
2)Rewritng History 2:00 doesn't post Alt history from Hungary
awesome
Appreciate that!
10:49 highly doubt that even in this scenario i
Could you pls make some sort of video about serbia. For example: what if yugoslavia reunited today but without croatia and slovenia, what if serbia won all yugowars, what if srpska joined serbia, what if the četniks liberated yugoslavia instead of partisans, what if tito liberated west but draža east of yugoslavia, what if serbia decided to create greater serbia instead of yugoslavia, what if yugoslavia was able to stay neutral during ww2 and not be invaded, what if yugoslavia joined Nato after tito stalin split, or what if bosnia, serbia and montenegro remained united without war and win kosovo war.
Are you going to make one for the russian empire too? Say finding a way to prevent the revolution from occuring or something?
Great video, but just a very small correction I would like to make is, greek population wasn't that present in western anatolia. Greeks made the majority in only certain places So if there was to be a federation I think the greek state wouldn't have that much land in anatolia. But that's a very minor thing and other than that, it was a nice video.
Either they give the lands or they collapse in a domino effect.
This is the greatest video on history
I really appreciate that with all my heart, thank you very much!
Great video but i think there is a bit of an inaccuracy , the russians only menaged to capture Plevna after the romanian king was given full control over the russian regional army. It is quite an intersting and notable fact
so ottoman empire wins 1877-1878 war?
Ha, close enough. You're almost right
Your accent is nice bro:)
Appreciate it, thank you very much!
YESSSSSSS
Can you do what if Austria-Hungary survives please? Great video. 👍🏻
I can do it soon if the British video does good
@@rewriting-history Okay cool, thanks. 👍 No rush. Peace ✌🏻
Suggestion: what if Leon Trotsky became leader of Mexico?
This is the opposite of peace in our time
It is 100 times more chaotic, but at least the Ottomans never collapsed!
What peace?
War In Our Time.
What if Joshua Norton succeeded in becoming the Emperor of the USA when he proclaimed himself emperor Norton I. along with his Daughter Mary Norton or his Wife becoming Empress after him likely continuing the dynasty
That might lead to a second American revolution, especially if none of the states agree
A bit hard to imagine a minority of 10% validates the creation of an autonomous Jewish state, and expansion was very restricted in first world War due to Wilsonian idealism so its a bit hard to imagine expansion to entirely separate ethnicities and religions besides maybe Armenian parts & border territories.
Tunisia being exchanged for French support would also be likely, and WW1 might last longer as the Germans wouldn't need to worry for food at least (though the Ottomans could perhaps occupy much of Serbia by the time the war begins, if it even does since they don't wait to invade).
Why the islands very close to 🇹🇷turkye as show in maps are not the part of it today
Why didn't Greece get Thessaly and Arta from the Congress of Berlin?
It doesn't change the scenario even if they did. I assumed that the Ottomans would be stronger and wouldn't give land away for free.
After that Josh video on realism you started focusing on it & explaining yourself. We aren't (at least I'm not) here for super-realistic scenarios. We're here because you make fun videos.
I always want to make fun scenarios, but I don't want to mislead people that my work is meant to be taken seriously. Realistic videos are pretty boring imo, so I want to make interesting scenarios first.
Both. Both is good.
its beautiful
Glad you liked it!
A lot of people don't seem to realize that this video isn't made to be realistic, he wasn't even gonna make this video so you should be happy he did
I agree, I even said like 4 times that this is not realistic and I still get complaints of some mistakes. I don't know anymore, warning people that it's not realistic doesn't seem to work...
@@rewriting-history Its a real shame however there's not a lot that can be done. Great vid though.
You'd have a Turkish accent instead.... 😅
So there is no difference then?(yes, this comment is a spark for a conflict)
@@minestar2247 Mission failed, we gotta get em next time
Suggestion what if Germany became a constitutional monarchy before ww1 this timeline would somewhat follow the great war redux contain the kaiser (democracy) where Germany would become a constitutional monarchy and they would have way better diplomacy leading to possibly a more limited ww1
You are from Bulgaria I'm from Serbia and I love your alternative history.
I appreciate that, I love Serbia, would love to visit soon!
Cool, but the ottoman wouldn’t make palestine a Jewish state only since at the time this is happening it is still overwhelmingly arab and Muslim.
, and historically the ottoman helped keep peace between the Arabs and Jews doing this would really anger the Arabs and only satisfy an extremely small Jew minority, in my opinion they would’ve incorporated it into the Arab state and as more Jewish refugees came along they would split palestine into an Arab and new autonomous state
Edit: also wouldnt there be a Kurd state?
OTTOMAN EMPİRE 🇹🇷💪
WE BE GETTING THE BALKANS, BOSPHORUS AND SINAI PENINSULA WITH THIS ONE🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣🔥🗣
Bro shut up nobody likes 🔥🗣️ in a comment
Don't ruin the meme pls
Shut. Up.
🇹🇷🦃🦃TURKISH POWER🦃🦃🇹🇷
@@HistoricalGuy417not funny
Cool scenario, a 7/10!
I only have a small problem with it. The US didn't really turn the tides in any of the world wars, the wars wouldn't have changed without their intervention, they sent a really small amount of troops and did little to nothing, arriving near the end of the war in both wars, fighting an exhausted Germany with little troops while France and the UK did the real fighting after exhausting Germany (in ww1, the USSR did 80% of he work in ww2, the British did the rest, fighting Germany since the very beginning of the war).
The only thing they did was give a morale boost to the entente.
I like your accent😊
The thumbnail is so wrong,I'm pretty sure they wouldn't accept the Berlin conference borders.
we can say
What İf Ottoman Sultans were not lazy and acted smart?
I mean Abdülhamid the second acted pretty smart
@@mustafakocabas6215 I'm talking about other sultans, like before 1900s
least nationalistic Turkish person:
He isn't Turkish, he is Bulgarian
Whatifalthist moment lmao
@@StarterOffical-Jousha-lf6igi think you dont understand the joke
I'm So happy
Glad you liked the video!
Tbh i feel like the only way to save the ottoman empire is to have napoleon never rise to power. Its the nationalism that screwed them over on multiple fronts in the end.
Napoleon effect on nationalism was very little and insignificant. You do realize that he became a monarch later in his life right. Nationalism may have been born amidst the French revolution, but it prospered and was "cultivated" in other parts of Europe.
W vid
Appreciate that very much!
The parliement was the reason the Ottoman Empire went to war against Russia. Also there was a revolution to remove Abdulhamid in March 31.
This was unexpected
It was, but I still hope that you liked it!
@@rewriting-history i always have been interested about the ottoman empire so this is a nice video
Bro did the impossible
And still it's more chaotic, but at least the Ottoman Empire survived!
What if Crassus and Publius conquered Persia leading to a third sphere in the civil war including Crassus Jrs sphere in north africa
Balkans Bad Ending
As a Greek i don't know but i like the scenario just because we own Smyrna and other states but at the cost of Macedonia though but i like the scenario and am curious how school will be in the vassal states because i go to elementary school
Back in the days of the ottoman empire a man by the name Rigas Fereos had a plan to replace the (at least balkan) part of the Ottoman Empire with a greek dominated balkan democratic federation a vision he shared with Ali pasha(i think i butchered that) what if it actually happened?
Sounds good, I will save this idea in mind!
@@rewriting-history yey-
This timeline is incredibly difficult to predict an outcome. One of the biggest reasons for WW1 was the slow collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the creation of the Balkan states. So in this timeline of Ottoman federalization one of the big three reasons for the WW1 is completely gone. Although I think we would have a more peaceful timeline depending on if the federation can survive. There is dissolving the caliphate, so there is more a central authority for Islam and is more likely to become more tolerant under this system. However the Kurds and Palestinians will probably seek their own state. Their will likely also be a lot of conflict between the Sunni and the Shia Muslims in this system. Another thing would be if the Suez Canal is even built, and if it is what is the policy for international trade. Lastly this would make the Ottomans a very close western ally as they know control a massive oil supply, along with being a tolerant and reform minded nation.
I think there would be no Jewish state due to their numbers being much lower than Christians and Muslims at the time of this supposed reformation.
So Palestine would be established instead. As for the Kurds, They were absolutely ok with Ottomans. Their problems were with the more westernized Republic that at the same time wanted to centralize absolute control until the reforms could be made because their time was short.
An Empire that reformed and somehow federalized without collapsing wouldnt have the same grasp and cause discontent.
The Ottomans in 1918:"Herr Wili, ich fühl mich nicht so gut..."
Unironically as a Christian with middleastern decent I would die to live in this Ottoman Federation..
Much more stable
Why? Can u explain?
@@NoaOneFno genocides of many groups of Christians in the ottoman empire
I would say the realism is 4/10. Firstly i don't think a federation in the 1870s would solve their problems, their subjects knew the ottomans were falling, so they would keep pushing. Secondly as pointed out in my other comment, the ottomans creating israel is extremely unlikely for religious and demographic reasons. Thirdly the sides in ww1 make no sense. The fact the ottomans own bosnia isn't going to reduce austro-serbian tensions enough for them to replace russia with austria. The austro hungarians still own serbian majority lands such as banat, so they wouldn't want to set the precedent of encouraging serbian nationalism. As for russia, its unlikely they'd side with germany and austria. In the ottoman federation, their fellow slavs have more freedom than under the german and austrian empires. Furthermore, the ottomans rule over south slavs, meaning there's no opportunity for direct russian terrotorial expansion in europe if they side with the central powers, whereas by joining the entente they can take the rest of poland.
A agree with you, I did 3 or 4 disclaimers that this is not realistic and not meant to be taken seriously. I just wanted to create a cool scenario, thats all
He wanted to have The League Of The Three Emperors be relevant.
So basically the united states of the middle east happens
Technically yes!
i don't see how the USA would be allowing ottoman imperialism at the peace treaty table
They won't most likely, but there is no other way for the Ottomans to survive
@@rewriting-history maybe if the ottomans made a petrodollar deal and anti Soviet alliance
How about what if zulu's modenazide
That guy is definitely bulgarian
If this means stability in the middle east, north africa and the balkans and a prospering empire. Then this would be a better worlds to live in.
I would agree, but it could end up like Yugoslavia, which means millions would die
@@rewriting-history and horn africa... Somali peninsula would be stable.
Nah you not slick Bulgaria was annexed but they still expanded
Wait why would the ottomans joun the entente?
Because as I said, they would be very western due to the reforms of Mehmed Kadri Pasha
What about:What if WW1 Ended in an Stalemate?
"What if Germany was DIVIDED after WW1?"
Im from balchik bulgaria and i think you shouldnt bite the hand that feeds you ottoman didnt treat bulgarians bad and they even helped bulgarians by alot thinks ottomans liked balkans alot the russians triggered the nationalistic feelings of bulgarians so they can advance more easily to ottomans.
I'm Bulgarian myself and I know what you're talking about. Didn't create the video with a certain narrative, just wanted to make a cool scenario :)
@@rewriting-history yeah but unfortunately it happened we are now puppets of russians i dont know youre slavic or not but my mother told me about asparuh when i was little and krum so she still sees bulgarian history as turkic whats youre opinion?slavic or turkic or slavified turkic
@@rewriting-history so thats why the bulgarian state is big
Nice loads of crap you said. Too Bad you are too blinded by your pro turkish views to know the truth
What If Africa was never colonized and exploited
It would get liberated by morroco and turkey in that case, or maybe the europeans decide to do proxy conflicts instead, which is insane
Either scenario A: Africa is just europe but Not white. Or B: Africa is wakanda
It would be in the stone age
@@theleader4620Not being colonized or exploited by modernized nations doesn’t necessarily mean your nation is in the Stone Age. Trading and introduction of modern tech from modern nations still exist
@@theleader4620
Facts.
as a Macedonian I wouldn't like living in a Bulgarian or Turkish state let alone a Bulgarian state controlled by the Ottomans but maybe a Macedonian vilayet or rumelia could have been formed
19:37 Wow, I actually assumed from your accent that you were Polish! 🤐
Damn and you learned at least by the end of the video
All that oil means it’s a USA testing ground for air strikes
Many things can go wrong for the Ottoman Empire and I agree that there is no way that they can never collapse. I just tried to share a way, that has created more problems than it has solved
What if ottomans won in Vienna?
What if India was united under the Maratha Empire and avoided full colonization similar to China?
😂
Abdulhamid 1896?? He was not incompetent in war
I’m sorry but the League of Three Emperors would absolutely kick the Entente’s ass.
Could be, I said that the video is unrealistic
Noooo
Worst ending for the Balkans
@@rewriting-history the worst anything if the USSR captures the Balkans, and made them into a puppet
Lore of What if the Ottoman Empire NEVER collapsed? Momentum 100
no independent Bulgaria = bad scenario
Agree!
@@rewriting-historyI don’t know if you did yet, but if you didn’t for April fools you can make a video on like possible histories on what if everything went perfect for Bulgaria, but instead have them be the size of the Byzantine empire at their peak
France and Italy: *declaring war on the ottoman empire*
German Empire: Austria look! A distracted France and Italy!
I say it’s unrealistic, Belgium still exists in this timeline.
I´m made a timeline in which Teddy Is president during WW1 and the Ottoman Remained Neutral in WW1, WW1 ended in 1916 with no USSR of Nazi Germany, In WW2 (is different than our WW2) Britain, Germany, The Ottoman, Austria-Hungary, Japan, And The US against Russia, and the result in Armenia and Azerbayan been part of the Ottoman Empire. And Israel is settled in southern Namibia.
What if the Romanian-Bulgarian Union actualy happened ?
I made that in my first ever video where Bulgaria lost against Serbia in 1885
I would live on this world if the federation behaved more like a confederation a bit.
Yeah it makes sense
That flag is the best thing I've ever seen
I know right :D
as a azerbaijani i like scenario
POLAND LITHUANIA BACK RAAHHHH
I knew people would love that!
I would've made a series of puppets:
-Macedonia/Greater Bulgaria (both work)
-Albania
-Bosnia
-Crete & Peleponnia
-Libya
-Arabia (except northern Iraq and Syria)
-Palestine, Jerusalem and Judea
While keeping the egeian islands and most of thrace, then I would've allied the UK at all costs. Then I would nationalize key industries like oil, which will be important and would move logistical, railway and army headquarters to Ankara for safety and centralization. It's closer to key future industry and agriculture regions like Sivas, Kayseri and Kayseri.
Political reforms are also necessary, along with military specializations and progressive reforms. I would aim for a sufi islam oriented approach in terms of religion, while also keeping the mantle of Roman Emperor and custodian of both Mecca/Medina and Jerusalem for political prestige and legitimacy. Also meritocracy, people like Mustafa Kemal should be elevated, especially after we defeat the Italians in Libya thanks to his skills.
Anatolia and thrace will be the main focus of the following industrialization and population growth policies. We have a fucking tiny population as a huge Empire and that is really bad
I would try to avoid joining WW1 at all costs, since my main objective is for the colonial powers to bleed themselves out on Germany while Germany bleeds out Russia for me. After that I swoop in and help the Caucasus and maybe even central asia in the ensuing civil war
After that we simply stfu and chill until possibly ww2, where we join the war late on the allied side to join the UN. After that we get closer to the EU nations as a member candidate, join nato and just use our oil money to make a regional powerhouse. Post ww2 we also grant our puppets mostly full independence
There you go
Sorry for being Late on the Comment Section!
I will excuse you
@@rewriting-history 🥰👍
Hungary also belonged to the ottoman empire for 150 years🤔
The ethnic map of turkiye was diffrent then there were more turks in thrace and northeren syria northeren iraq and more of anatolia so why make vassals of land where you are the majority
Funny thing is there are greek people who want an turkish greece zyprus federation
maybe in 50 years this map could become reality 😅
I doubt turkey will give away anatolian regions, and edirne
I agree, so the borders could be changed around, but the idea is the same
@@rewriting-historyyeah that's true
And then the Kurds lived happily ever after. Not.
Kurds fight against turkey for calipha
Wdym
at least many christian populations of asia minor would not get genocided
At least
@@rewriting-history thats the only upside of that scenario you showcased
Now I have only one great complain.Croatia wasnt part of Ottomans.You can maybe say Slavonia but everything else no.So this is still good video but that map is curised.
Could be, I did 3 or 4 disclaimers that this is not realistic and not meant to be taken seriously
@@rewriting-history I don't have problem if they took it from Austria Hungary but put it in the start as a part of empire it is misliding.Again Great video I just Warned you for future videos
I have no problem with this scenario as Bessarabia/Moldova is a free country, also no more USSR👍👍