How the LGBT+ Exclusion Policy Changed My Faith in the LDS Church - Donna Showalter
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- One of our all-time favorite Mormon Stories guests, Donna Showalter, reflects on how she reacted to the LGBT+ exclusion policy reversal, and why it ultimately led it a fracture in her LDS faith.
Content warning: This clip contains discussions of suicide.
This excerpt is from Mormon Stories episode number 1153 - “The Faith Crisis of a Former Relief Society President pt. 4”
The full interview can be found at: • Mormon Stories #1153: ...
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#Mormon #LDS #LGBT #ExMormon #PostMormon #FaithCrisis
This is one of the great interviews. And this situation was me as well. Nov 15, Jan 16, April 19 and sep 19 are the dates of this situation I will never forget. I had the same cognitive dissadence. The whole episode is sad and never needed to happen.
Tithing this is one reason for the revelation 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑
Donna is awesome. Talk about a warrior!
Thank you so much for your honesty and deep humanity.
This hit home. I almost killed myself from the shame. Its so sad the lds church feels it can just play God. Russell m nelson caused me too leave as well in a talk about why being gay was wrong. He talked about his wife and how she made him see the world diffidently and how that was god sent. I was like I feel everything u say about ur wife as I d I may same sex partner. I then started my way out of the church with the help of your pod casts. Im so now... Its so sad the church would rather see me take my own life instead of being with the person I love.
Sending you hugs and love. 🥰
Sorry Jimbob. I hope you’ve found happiness. I wish he could see that’s what love means and you can feel the exact same thing with your partner and it can be sent from God just as much as his experience.
Im am blessed even if he cant see it
Sending love! Your worth is far more valuable than a self claimed prophet can say. God made you the way that you are. Be proud of who you are.
" Its so sad the lds church feels it can just play God." that is the core issue indeed, the Q15 playing god's mouthpiece. Their pretending isn't victimless.
This is a most powerfully compelling, emotionally heart breaking interview. Excellent! Thanks for sharing.
Oh the confusion of revelation becoming policy and policy becoming revelation
There is NO REVELation involved!! Fraud 101! Donna is Great. Thx
@@hal8683 follow the profit!
@@gordonzio Yes I do and they have a 100 Billion plus .... slush fund and own a major part of Florida! PRO-FIT!! and Fraud!
Convenient indeed! More like politically expedient, just like in 1978 w/ the "revelation" about blacks and the priesthood.
What an amazing woman, so brave and real. I love her honesty, thank you
How dare he call himself a prophet indeed! The church does so much damage that having a social community can never make up for.
So heartfelt and so sad. Nobody should ever lose his or her life because they feel inferior based on dogmatic, narrow minded, “myopic” teachings. Personally I don’t know how men of faith can throw God under the bus to save face.
Although I’ve been inactive (and openly gay) for almost 10 years, this reversal is what pushed me to have my records removed in 2019. The double think and gaslighting is so toxic, on top of the destruction these decisions cause to begin with.
Blessings Donna for speaking God's truth.
I am genetically and biologically an intersexed hermaphrodite and I also just went through a very traumatizing experience with the bishop and president. I am completely straight and heterosexual male, but I was ostracized and traumatized by the church just recently for the past four weeks due to my biological condition
It’s mind blowing that many of us thought this was real and accepted somethings like this, or accepted the church cult regardless of this. Youth have died.
In the saddest way. For nothing.
How is this religion still standing?
That also shows true character of the members of they’re ignoring this.
"How dare you call it revelation? How dare you call yourself a prophet?"
I love it! "3 1/2 years later," god the father changes his mind. This is not an effective communication system.
The batteries were dead.... on his lighted pen and he didn't know it! Sad battery
The "prophet" himself couldn't bear more powerful testimony.
Unfortunately for "the Church," it has been a flip-flop denomination on MANY issues . . . polygamy, race, sexuality, United Nations, etc., etc., etc.
Flip flop on truth and half-truths!
United nations?
@@kyliesmith729 Yeah, President Ezra Taft Benson correctly said the U. N. was a dangerous, parasitical organization and the U. S. should get out and get away from it. But now, they're invited for their big deal to SLC, and the Church gives them millions of dollars to import third-world predators and parasites into industrialized, civilized nations. Anyone with a working brain knows the cultures are totally incompatible, but these days, I guess working brains are the exception and not the rule.
@@joetaylor8687ya learn something new everyday!
Imagine what "Revelations" the brethren are going to have tomorrow . . . everything they say is true, until its not
Not kidding. There needs to be a revelation on the “vaccines” that we are guinea pigs.
@@BTLFAEN You may know the church is partners with the UN. Read up on on the expectations the UN has for its Faith-Based Partners regarding Covid and vaccinations.
Nice addition! Love this part, and is insightful... Mormon Stories, your staff ROCKS! ❤️
I grantee the change was based on legal protection against discrimination
Same reason the essays were released. Can’t get sued.
Thank you so much for speaking the truth! These men are not suddenly straight! What rubbish they expound.
Kids of LGBT parents now CAN get baby blessings and baptism?? I didn't know. But they haven't switched sides. "Acting gay" is still "wrong". They didn't even apologize did they.
The religion is a fraud and the blessings and baptism are fraud and BS! Ok carry on!
Why would they apologize? The church has never done anything wrong ever, according to the church. Not a single thing. And if you believe that they have done something wrong, that’s satan influencing you. Satan’s gotcha!
They don’t apologize.
I know a boy… a child when he realized he was gay….. live his life celibate and without a family of his own. No,partner, but stays living with his parents so he is not alone. Not realizing his potential, living life with a chip on his shoulder…. Because his CHURCH won’t allow him to be himself. Forty years old now and miserable…but won’t admit it. How DARE they…. The church is despicable.
This interview is heartbreaking. She is so right. Look at the big picture and see the true toll that was paid for the decisions of men. Lives ended. Families torn apart. And these men call it "God's Divine Will". If That is true then they believe in and worship a cold, callused, malicious God who delights in the torment of his people.
Not being able to have a coffee
Or bourbon is what changed my mind.
I had a similar feeling when I left my religion.
And the hurt from the blacks who could not hold the priesthood, and then it was changed.
@4:35. yes- how dare you call yourself a prophet!
Exactly- HE calls HIMSELF a prophet and people go along with it. Who says? HE says! Why believe him? Mormonism is a SELF proclaimed “one and only true” religion by a SELF proclaimed “one true” prophet. Question for me is- Why do people buy into such hubris?
Yet another reason the LDS Church is not true. It’s amazing how conveniently the “prophet” (and I use that term loosely) receives a revelation from God only when a rule or doctrine is not socially acceptable and there is public outcry. What amazes me is the number of intelligent people who fall for this load of bull$hit. I’ll never understand it.
Christ bless you 🏳️🌈☮️💙🙏
The problem I have is not so much with the problems that they point out about the Mormon Church; but the critique is not fair. Its like having a brand new Mercedes and complaining that the oil has to be changed, that it requires gasoline etc. Compared to other institutions, the Mormon Church has done a incredible job of being a force for good. I can not think of any 200 plus yr old institution that has a track record that is as remarkable as the Mormons as a whole. The Mormon Church is not perfect even though they seem to preach it. But, could somebody name just one institution that can match what the Church as a whole has done. Of all the things in the world that need attention, picking on the Mormon church seems to be a waste of time and energy. So what if they are prudish.
Revela$$$$$$$ion.
If anyone wants to hear the talk Elder Nelson gave, you can find it here: ruclips.net/video/xxiO7n5u23M/видео.html. Start listening at the 45 minute mark.
Thank you, @Redsquall!
The LDS church is so excuse my language are so screwed up am so sorry for those people that took there own lives😒heart breaks this church the false prophets are pure evil we are to love not hate indeed it’s not revelation and the real God is not the author of confusion glad thank God I left the church long time ago.
In the minds of those making and supporting these decrees “know” they do nothing wrong, so they can sleep at night. Meanwhile, the damage they do in the name of an apparent psychopathic god continues unrestricted.
The mormon God always bows and conforms to cultural pressures and political correctness. Its just very very sad that it takes countless numbers of its members suffering and deaths to change. Not a God i wish to follow.
I cringe so bad when I listen to these people whine and take no responsibility for their own lives. Being angry at the Mormon church is ridiculous.
So the church changed their stance on homosexuality at this year’s conference? Wow, my friend didn’t tell me that!
The church didn't change its stance on homosexuality, it made some changes in relation to individuals who are related to individuals who are in same sex relationships.
@@russellgoodwin5796 Ok thanks for clarifying.
I don't understand all the tales of suicide, etc. If someone thinks "the Church" is up-in-the-night, why wouldn't they just walk away and go in another direction? If you don't think something is ecclesiastically / scripturally correct, why would you hang around and get emotional about it? I would think the logical reaction would be to just turn your back on it, and think about something else.
The LDS church is a cult, there are many studies on why people in cults stay in cults. I would suggest you look at it that way. Leaving is not simple or easy.
You dont seem to have any idea how deep religion runs in your brain when you're raised in it. For some people, leaving the church is abandoning your entire life and family
@@eeeeggnog._. Yeah, I guess many are not as callous and dismissive as I am. Maybe I've just had too many years of watching too much asinine nonsense.
Yes Joe, you hit the nail on the head. Seems people want to get all upset and blame the church for how they are feeling.
@@russellgoodwin5796 I hope your statement is sarcasm.
Policies change for reasons. The Gospel does not change. I am 83 years old and a member for 51 years. I am also a former Baptist minister. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true Consider the Fullness of the Gospel that has been revealed, the restoration of the priesthood and all the Revelations to our prophets. I see darkness in your decision to work against Jesus Christ and His Church. Consider the totality of the Restored Church compared to the Churches of the world. Work it out, pray and seek answers from the Holy Spirit. I was surprised as well, but I will seek and understanding which will come in due time. Our leaders are True or God will remove them, but this is the Restored Church of Jesus Christ, I know it from the Holy Spirit and I will not deny it. I hope you find your way back. Love you all.
Yikes
@Ron Palmer: Ron, do you have a reference for God removing leaders when they're not true?
@@jagmo The Lord stated that He will remove the Prophet if he attempts to lead us astray. None have. Some leaders have been removed, both local and general authorities. The Lord expects us to follow our leaders especially the prophet who has been given all the keys of the priesthood. God said, He will remove them, not me or you. I have a testimony that this is the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. That is the key, to gain a testimony through study, prayer and faith. Look at the totality of what had been accomplished through all the prophets. If we are sincere God will help us. Thanks for your reply.
You are seriously deluded Ron. Wake up! You are in a cult!
Go dig up some tablets and make a bunch of crazy shit up. Organize into an army and call yourself good. You are full of love you are full of ……..
Being gay is wrong . In the gospel, in life, in science. If this broke your faith, then you never had faith
This lady is trying to force drama. What a provo mom
What are you-John-hoping to achieve by recording and broadcasting all these stories?
It would seem to others that you are every bit involved with the LDS Church, now, as you were when you were a member-maybe in a different way!
Some of the primary objectives of Mormon Stories podcast include:
-Providing support to Mormons who are transitioning away from either orthodox Mormonism, or from Mormonism altogether, with a particular emphasis on:
Minimizing the anxiety, depression, and occasional suicidality that can accompany a transition away from religious orthodoxy.
-Reducing the number of unnecessary divorces attributable to Mormon faith crises.
Creating a community of support for liberal/progressive and post-Mormons.
-Building greater awareness regarding accurate LDS/Mormon church history, doctrine, and theology - so that both active, believing Mormons and investigators of the church can make informed decisions regarding their investment in, and engagement with the church.
-Identifying opportunities for growth/improvement within the LDS church, and within broader Mormon culture.
@@UnderstandingMormonism i.e. convince people they should stop believing in, and leave the church.
Period.
I’m sorry but God is not responsible for the actions of individually accountable people. His church on the earth has to work in a society that is not open to religion to begin with. And a secular movement for acceptance of things that are taught as against the will of God for man. It is terrible that people commit suicide but to blame a church which they don’t have to belong to is just wrong headed. God doesn’t force anyone to him or his church.
You missed the point.
The church only bends to society when it affects them in ways that will effect their numbers or status. The church keeps its involvement in society very guarded, with such consequences, that alot of its members can't function in society without the church.
@@Earthpsalm no. Didn’t. The blame is laid at the LDS Church’s feet for harm.
@@JL-xk8yi please explain “ a lot of its members can’t function in society without the church”
@@arianae6706 I really appreciate your thoughtful and tender reply. Here’s my point. You are right that people are entitled to Their own beliefs when it comes to the church. And you are correct that there is a divide betweenThose that left the church and feel that God is not directing it, and those that are active members who believe that God is the head of his church. My point is simply that if active members who have faith in the church believe that God is directing it, then people who do not believe that same way have the freedom and ability to leave. The very reason for the change in policy with regards to children of lgbt who were active in church Was trying to avoid a scenario where children were attending a church where they were taught that the circumstances within their own family structure or contrary to the Commandments which they are encouraged to follow and keep within the church. The allowing the children to LGBT parents to be baptized and active within the church would actively place those children in a position of having to determine who is correct their parents or the church. In my personal opinion it would be a kin to abuse for And LGBT parents to have their child baptized into a church with the spouses police which are completely contrary to their personal lifestyle choices. That wouldn’t be the church forcing the child into that position but because the parent has every option to choose to allow the child to be baptized or not Would be the fault of the parent for placing their child in such a position. As for scriptures, Leviticus 20:13
“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” The Bible is very clear about homosexuality and sexual perversion. You’re the only real deciding factor is whether you believe the Bible is true or not. If you don’t believe in God of the Bible Then these arguments are counterproductive. If you do believe in God and what he said in the Bible you have to understand that there is a certain standard of living that he expects. This doesn’t mean that we hate or Judge those that choose not to live in Gods way, but It does mean that we should put people in a position to have to choose between God or family. There are two issues at play here 1: members of the church need to be more loving and less judgemental. 2:The secular community needs to understand that if the church has standards that are dictated by an eternal unchanging God, that those standards can’t be changed because the secular and societal norms changed. Otherwise God, if he is real, would cease to be God. He can’t have standards one day, and different standards the next. All in all, I love the beliefs that our church espouses. The 11th article of faith is what this is all about: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Ps you seem like a really smart cool person. I wish you well.
Suicide is not the fault of the LDS church.
It is an individual decision of the individual.
You don’t like church policy, leave or live with it.
"You don’t like church policy, leave or live with it." -- words that every LDS missionary should say to investigators after FULLY revealing the true history, policies, and practices of the church and LDS culture, including what takes place inside temples, and prejudices against converts. It's important for potential LDS members to know that they can never be one step ahead or more enlightened than the leaders of the church and that personal revelation is only valid if it confirms rather than conflicts with church policies. Sigh.
No the church is innocent, they’re just driving the get away car.
That woman never had a solid testimony. Sad.
This is a repeat.
Everything on this channel is snippets from longer interviews, and thus, is repeated.
You’re kidding, right?
They had it right the first time, and because people like you refused to follow and believe it, God gave you what you wanted instead. Just like Joseph and the manuscript. God will not force you to take his first answer.