not even going to lie, sram rival is something nice, and I feel like a lot of the people running this group set are going to be thrilled by the price and also the efficiency of it
I test road a Giant with the Rival and the way the shifters fit on the bars with that gap and bump was annoying. It just did not feel like the shifters fit.
Maaaaan, I've watched other reviews on Rival vs force but non of them broke it down as simple as you did...you broke it down so simple and fast..great comparison..thanks always..
Great analysis. I had a bit of buyers remorse going with Rival, but glad to hear this commentary from an expert. I wanted a mid-tier bike for my amateur triathlon pursuit - budget (5000 USD) - and Rival allowed me to step into electronic shifting.
I got a Speedmax with rival and the cockpit has blips on the bars and base. It’s not as snappy as my sram axs with gold eagle cassette on my mtb, but it’s still good. And no chunky rival shifters like a typical road bike since the triathlon bike has a different cockpit
Im never going to be light enough that the weight saving in group set will be worth the money but really want the performance of electronic shifting so Rival seems perfect for me. Only time will tell if the 105 Di2 will be as affordable and good.
Average price differences between Sram ForceeTap AXS vs. Sram RivaleTap AXS equipped bikes (same model) are 1.500-2.500 eur. For this money you can upgrade a Sram Rival eTap AXS equipped bike with Sram Red Power Meter crankset and Sram Red cassette (make the bike lighter than Force bike) and buy custom carbon wheels. At the end you get a much better bike, a Sram Rival eTap AXS bike, than a factory equipped Sram Force eTap AXS bike.Lighter, Sram Red crankset with Power Meter, Sram Red cassette, better (costum) carbon wheels, better looking Sram Rival shifters...etc. That's my opinion.
damm this mna is cracked!!.... that sounds like the best way to do it for sure, I have done tons or builds but putting it on paper sure does come out nice
i finally had my bike built from scratch. one component each month from march and before i knew it, its complete. all sram force axs😍with all carbon fiber from body to wheelset. i love it
i was gonna build it on my own, but i had a professional assemble it for me. having a hard time with the bottom bracket installation and the xdr swap. LOL
I bought a Tarmac S-work frame after my bike got stolen... have been umm’ing and ahh’ ing about how to build it up with the shortage of group sets. Then the Rival set got released and i pre-ordered it. Literally today I added a SRAM red cassette and a set of carbon cranks to the order to offset the weight gain...... then I saw this video. HAAAALLLELUJAH so happy GC agrees with my life choices 😂
@El Filipino de Cebu I think your thoughts are on the right track. Shimano has to react here and offer a very affordable groupset on the market, and ideally also electronically like the RIVAL. But I suspect that Shimano will still show reactions with a bomb this year. In my opinion, Campa itself created a problem with these countless groups that are on offer and the price that is too high.
Will add this to the latest thank you note from Hong Kong. I literally went thru each and every comments and surprised, I mean very surprised to see GC Performance's personal reply. He meant what he said. So I wrote this and subscribe this Channel. And Rival hood ..., Red crank arm/cassette mix I gather is my decision. Ready to see more performances. Don't worry about the split screen. I could live with that ...:)
@@GCPerformance18 The black force cassette will be changed for a normal looking version. The black finish looks nice but is also one of the reasons why the force groupset runs louder.
I think Rival is a game changer - affordable electronic groupset that has full compatibility with Red, Force and Eagle. Hopefully this will put Sram on more OEM Stock builds and take some marketshare from Shimano. Will be interesting to see how Shimano responds or if they could even be bothered... Shimano certainly has not been trying very hard at all with even producing and supplying LBS with replacement parts for existing customers.
Shimano have higher standards than Sram. They'll release a product to compete when it's ready and if it meets their standards. They won't just push out a cheap electronic groupset for marketshare sake.
I know a lot of people with Force/Red have had problems with chain drops beacuse of the front derailleur acting up. Is that something you have experienced with the new Rival groupset as well? Would like to avoid that...
Another great video. With all the guys riding Red & Force, they all complaining of chain noise, and they have tried every oil, grease, wax to quiet the chain. And to top things off many were having chain drops from the big chain to small chain ring, come to find out they needed a setup gauge fro the front derailleur. Fro the video, Rival seems to shift better and chain was quieter as well. Hopefully Sram will incorporate what they learned and us it on the newer Generations groupsets. Lets see what Shimano will release later this year
The obvious answer is that the that best buy is Shimano 105 Di2 or Ultegra Di2 unless you want a cordless drill's battery hanging of the back of your bike, in that case by Sram.
The fit of the hoods is a joke on rival, but the rest looks really very good. I got a Rival 1 groupo (11 speed) on my crosser. Even though it's partially made so damned cheap, it works flawlessly over the years.
Setup if i went with sram etap: *Force chain(lighter) *Force crank(for more options) *Rival cassette(quick and quiet shifts) *Rival brake calipers(simplicity) *Rival hoods/shifters(simplicity and esthetics/more shimano-ish..lol) *Rival or force derailleurs
Interesting that you thought rival shifts faster, I’m a Sram user, both force and Red, I recently built a new Madone with a mixture of Red chainset, cassette with force mechs and Rival shifters, mainly because that’s all I could get, but I’ve decided I like the look and feel of rival shifters better, as you noted they are smaller in your hands, I believe the faster shifting is something to do with the rival shifters because I swear mine shifts faster than the complete force or Red groupsets! And I am using force shifters so it can’t be anything to do with the mechs, or the cassette as I have a red cassette, I just wish Sram would update force and Red to look and feel like the rival shifters!
well according to website red is 653 grams lighter and force is 270 to 300grams lighter. In my opinion get rival and change crank and cassette to that of red. you might be able to save 200 to 300grams.
Changing the crank wouldn’t be a great move because then you loose the power meter on the Rival, probably it‘s best feature. Swooping the Rival AXS Cassette with a Red Cassette would probably be the cheapest significant upgrade. Also, not taking the stock brake discs, but taking Shimano XTR instead.
Unless you're racing up mountains, the weight will make very little difference. For most riders AND racers, a few hundred grams will make no difference. I like lighter stuff because it's fun to be a little bit of a bike nerd but I also recognize it is all-but-completely irrelevant to performance in any meaningful way.
It looks pretty cool to be honest. The 650g difference to way more expensive groups isn't so bad. I don't like the crank though, it looks pretty cheap and plasticy. The Rival crank is has 873g while the Force crank is around 744g and Red even 609g. On the other hand Rival offers a cheap version with Power Meter.
The real test I’d like to see if a blind test. Put a rider on Rival, Force, and Shift - and let’s see if they can tell the difference. I’m sure you’d be able to tell the difference if you’re feeling the hoods (the shape/ergo is different) but I wonder if they’d be able to feel a difference between the shifting. Further, let’s see if someone could tell the difference between shifting where the only difference is the mech, chain, chainring, cassette - and the hoods are the same. I have a feeling the top level riders might be able to tell the difference but entry level or amateur riders wouldn’t be able to tell the difference
yea who knows I mean honestly the shifting is pretty similar between the two and sram evenm states that it is the same program and software just the hardware was changed out
They need wireless. I'm pretty loyal to Shimano from decades of riding and only having one groupset I didn't love, which was Campy Chorus. Every Shimano gruppo I've had has been flawless. I still have a bike set up on my trainer that's got a 20 year old Dura Ace group on it that works 95% as well as the day I first set it up. My newest bike is latest generation Ultegra mechanical. I'll switch to electronic when Shimano does wireless.
DThis video is proof that the "Holy Grail" of bicycles is the pursuit of less weight. The ONLY reason why someone would buy Sram Red for 3x the price is to save weight. Performance is as good and even better in this case on 1st tier group. And I assure you that it doesn't cost SRAM significantly more to make Red over Rival yet they charge 3x per much because they can. VEBLEN GOODS
@@Bpf1893 Yep. It is all marginal gains with weight being the sole differentiator. The bike manufacturers purposely spec these bikes apart in weight and hence price on purpose.
Some people have speculated that he better shifting from the Rival is a result of the rear cassette. The one piece ones on the Force and Red are harder to make although lighter. I have Red on my road bike but am really considering Rival for my gravel bike to make them the same style of shifting. I think it is perfect for gravel personally. I won't get as upset if I damage something.
Doesn't the rear mech on Rival use a spring clutch to control chain movement whereas Red & Force us ‘Orbit’ fluid damper? Could this explain the perceived difference?
Nice video. I have hard choice between two bikes and while Rival eqpd bike has nicer paint scheme, but heavier and alloy wheels, and Force bike has less attractive paint and integrated stem+ carbon wheels. The price difference is 900 euro. I like both. 😀
It would be interesting to see the hood differences from Disc to Caliper. The caliper ones seem to be very slim compared to disc... maybe I'm wrong though.
yea they are much smaller because there is no need for a resiviuor in the brake hood for the hydraulic hood, if they could make them that small with hydralic fluid it would be amazing
Curious to know what you would do if you had to choose between two fully built options - one a 2021 BMC Roadmachine 01 with Force, and a 2022 Tarmac SL7 with Rival - both options at nearly identical price points...another source of concern is the SL7 I can only source in my size in white - but that's a different matter! Any opinions would be welcome.
In your opinion , what is a shimano 1x GRX 812, comparable to in terms of shifting quality and quickness, in shimano road line up and SRAM road line up?
shimano grx is tried and true, doesnt have the crazy weight or the bling but it is shimanos only gravel group for a reason, it does the job amazing and hood design people love for it
The chipped cogs you're showing are present on all drivetrains, it's the chain's attempt to shift when not perfectly matched with the cog. Sram unlocked backward compatibility between AXS 12s ( except Rival AXS ) and eTap 11s last year via a software update. Most AXS options are not available when AXS shifters are paired with an eTap rear derailleur though. What intrigues me about your setup is how does the derailleur know when to stop at the last cog on a 11s cassette? I mean if paired with eTap 11s it's very clear. Also one can fiddle with cog spacing as well if needed, but the AXS derailleur has 11 steps programmed into it's movement range (eTap 11s has 10 steps) without using hard limits like limit screws ( which may potentially damage the electric motor ) how does it stop? Do you just remember to stop? In your 1st video you attempted to overshift on purpose yet it didn't happen. I can't wrap my head around it, what am I missing? The AXS app doesn't allow any cassette settings. I've got probaly 12 almost new cassettes, wheels, hubs etc from my over 10 years of 11s and would very much like to use them, AXS consumables are very expensive.
Is it possible to buy the Rival rear derailleur and shifters only separately ? (I run customer 1X carbon cranks up front). I already have the chain rings that will work with AXS flat top chains.
I mean yea its right there but two different shifting ocmpanies I woul;d say more people prefer ultegra di2 over the force but thats just what I have heardd
I literally just filmed a video tonight on it, but it is going live tomorrow, check it out, I run a 12 speed shimano cassette on sram rival and a sram axs cass on a shimano ult di2
That's great news. I can't wait to watch. I think you'll have the answer that a lot of people are asking... A 12 speed cassette without the price of an XDR cassette would be ideal and also give the benefit of less jumps between gears. I just received my rival axs groupset but opted for a shimano 11-30t instead of a sram 10-30t... Looking forward to your video and hopefully I didn't throw my money away
@@GCPerformance18 Aw. But a black casette looks 🔥 thanks man, awesome content as always. Your content fills my Day dreaming of a roubaix someday soon. 🍻
@@GCPerformance18 could you please make sure it works like this. I can't find any confirmation on the web. I asked on Q&A forum bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/79104/sram-etap-axs-compatibility-rival-road-setup-adding-sram-etap-clics and got the answer, which makes me skeptical.
Sram killed red and force for more profit. Red was really good. If someone is to go 12 speed and need to replace parts then it has to be anything thats in the axs groupset which cost more expensive than shimano. But if you can swing by and makes you happy then thats all that matters.
I think the perfect groupset would be all rival with the red crankset. I just like the look of the red crankset, being lighter is an added bonus. Although the hoods on rival where they meet the bar and flare out kinda bother me in terms of aesthetics.
I totally agree...im thinking about getting a rival groupset(derailleurs, cassette,shifters) with a force or red crank..or just simply do a ultegra Di2 set up
I sent the pictures via Instagram but the 1rival crankset the chainring is a direct mount chain ring with the sram pattern. I am currently putting together a sram rival 1x group to put on my allez sprint and happen to have the crankset.
This rival seems like good stuff. Can cancel the weight penalty by making the rider lose weight 😂 My philosophy in cycling: Get good and bike fit before buying the frame Top tier frame Top tier carbon wheel Saddle that fit best to rider ass Mid range group (105, rival, potenza) Alloy stem/bar However i still think buying complete bike is still much better value than ala carte build unless there is spare groupset and parts lying around although you get to choose parts individually.
I was gonna ask for the same thing. Why not just put the bikes back to back so the rear derailleurs are facing each other, so one person can press the shifters at the same time to get an accurate timing of the shifts. Ive read on other reviews that the rival shifts feel quicker, but GC performance would be first to actually prove this.
Cool video, I've watched some rival reviews, but a comparison like this clears things up!! Is there a part you can point out as 'being responsible' for the weight difference? I wasn't able to find all the weights per part listed online easily. But for example; the biggest difference in weight is in the cranks, or the cassette (maybe expressed in a percentage)? Other question, will the inside of the hoods always be this bulky? Like it's sticking out instead of being flat with the bartape.... Seems like it doesn't fit the bars very well... Or is it just these bars and tape that cause that? I really don't like the black force cassette btw, even if I had the force group I'd probably change it for a rival or red cassette
Bonjour Comment peut on récupérer l’intérieure de la pedale rival avec capteur de puissance pour me réinstaller dans le pédalier sram force ? Quelqu’un a t’il une idée Merci
@@GCPerformance18 , c’est vraiment pas sympa de la part de sram , le même tube d’axe que le rival et impossible de me sortir pour le mettre dans la manivelle gauche du sram force !!! Vraiment commercial 🤔
not even going to lie, sram rival is something nice, and I feel like a lot of the people running this group set are going to be thrilled by the price and also the efficiency of it
@Ellis Elisha Yea, have been watching on Flixzone for years myself :)
@Ellis Elisha yup, have been using flixzone for years myself :D
@Ellis Elisha Yea, I've been watching on Flixzone for since december myself :)
The electronic groupset of the people?
The gap between the Rival's hood and the bikes handlebar would really bug me.
you can run them lower btu we run them higher for more ocmfrot
Ah yes, there is a small gap on my wives ride. That 1-2mm gap is a curiosity
I test road a Giant with the Rival and the way the shifters fit on the bars with that gap and bump was annoying. It just did not feel like the shifters fit.
Maaaaan, I've watched other reviews on Rival vs force but non of them broke it down as simple as you did...you broke it down so simple and fast..great comparison..thanks always..
Sram just needs to keep up with the demand for the Rival. Their stock for Force and Red disk has been sold out for months in Australia.
yea I know, my groups I have ordered for them aint coming in for a while
Great analysis. I had a bit of buyers remorse going with Rival, but glad to hear this commentary from an expert. I wanted a mid-tier bike for my amateur triathlon pursuit - budget (5000 USD) - and Rival allowed me to step into electronic shifting.
very nice!! rival is a great group that is literal the perfect exampple of trickle down tech it is a nice group
I got a Speedmax with rival and the cockpit has blips on the bars and base. It’s not as snappy as my sram axs with gold eagle cassette on my mtb, but it’s still good. And no chunky rival shifters like a typical road bike since the triathlon bike has a different cockpit
Im never going to be light enough that the weight saving in group set will be worth the money but really want the performance of electronic shifting so Rival seems perfect for me. Only time will tell if the 105 Di2 will be as affordable and good.
good - yes
affordable - no
@@5ch4cht3l7 yea we didn't have to wait long!
Average price differences between Sram ForceeTap AXS vs. Sram RivaleTap AXS equipped bikes (same model) are 1.500-2.500 eur. For this money you can upgrade a Sram Rival eTap AXS equipped bike with Sram Red Power Meter crankset and Sram Red cassette (make the bike lighter than Force bike) and buy custom carbon wheels. At the end you get a much better bike, a Sram Rival eTap AXS bike, than a factory equipped Sram Force eTap AXS bike.Lighter, Sram Red crankset with Power Meter, Sram Red cassette, better (costum) carbon wheels, better looking Sram Rival shifters...etc. That's my opinion.
damm this mna is cracked!!.... that sounds like the best way to do it for sure, I have done tons or builds but putting it on paper sure does come out nice
Excellent review! Really liked listening to your comparison & honest opinion. Keep up the good work! cheers from Belgium
Thank you so much and I am glad you enjoyed the video
That sheeeesh was on point 😌
lmaoo
I'm currently using the Sram Force...I like it.
Great review as always.
I'm having this too on my S-works SL7 !!!! Can't wait!
Awesome! Thank you!
i finally had my bike built from scratch. one component each month from march and before i knew it, its complete. all sram force axs😍with all carbon fiber from body to wheelset. i love it
nice commitment!!! I t really does take a lot right now to follow through on a build so good job seing it through
i was gonna build it on my own, but i had a professional assemble it for me. having a hard time with the bottom bracket installation and the xdr swap. LOL
Love it! Great video for comparison.
I have Rival set. Zero complaints
Good to hear!
I bought a Tarmac S-work frame after my bike got stolen... have been umm’ing and ahh’ ing about how to build it up with the shortage of group sets. Then the Rival set got released and i pre-ordered it. Literally today I added a SRAM red cassette and a set of carbon cranks to the order to offset the weight gain...... then I saw this video. HAAAALLLELUJAH so happy GC agrees with my life choices 😂
hahahhah that is aweosme and very soprry about the bike stolen but sounds like your going to get a nice machine!!!
If Shimano or Campa don't follow suit in this direction soon, things will be tight and SRAM will become more and more. Thanks for the video.
yea I know, what is campy jsut comes put and kills hte game
Shimano already took too long to follow this pattern with 105 grupo!
@El Filipino de Cebu I think your thoughts are on the right track.
Shimano has to react here and offer a very affordable groupset on the market, and ideally also electronically like the RIVAL.
But I suspect that Shimano will still show reactions with a bomb this year. In my opinion, Campa itself created a problem with these countless groups that are on offer and the price that is too high.
Will add this to the latest thank you note from Hong Kong. I literally went thru each and every comments and surprised, I mean very surprised to see GC Performance's personal reply. He meant what he said. So I wrote this and subscribe this Channel. And Rival hood ..., Red crank arm/cassette mix I gather is my decision. Ready to see more performances. Don't worry about the split screen. I could live with that ...:)
thank you so much!!! I appreciate the support and I hope to make more vidoes for you to enjoy in the future
Really like the new Rival...you can’t go wrong and I personally don’t need the Force
yea it is a huge plus!! I love this group
That really is such a great deal and the cassette change out is perfect. Note that Force black cassette is 🔥. Wish shimano had that option !
yea I think it is going to be a more normal thing in the future
@@GCPerformance18 The black force cassette will be changed for a normal looking version. The black finish looks nice but is also one of the reasons why the force groupset runs louder.
@@TheBarts27 yep..just saw a video on that break down..I think they're going to stop with the black..
I think Rival is a game changer - affordable electronic groupset that has full compatibility with Red, Force and Eagle. Hopefully this will put Sram on more OEM Stock builds and take some marketshare from Shimano. Will be interesting to see how Shimano responds or if they could even be bothered... Shimano certainly has not been trying very hard at all with even producing and supplying LBS with replacement parts for existing customers.
The rival is going to steal the market of electronic groupsets from shimano if they don't make a 105 di2 or bring down the price of ultegra di2.
yea I think this group has alotr of upside and once more people see it on bikes and actually feel it the weight wont be the big difference
Shimano have higher standards than Sram. They'll release a product to compete when it's ready and if it meets their standards. They won't just push out a cheap electronic groupset for marketshare sake.
Great analysis!
In my case, weight and hydraulic tensioner derailleur are the main reason I choce the force.
very nice
Appreciate your objectivity :))) keep on filming good reviews :)
Thanks for watching!
I know a lot of people with Force/Red have had problems with chain drops beacuse of the front derailleur acting up. Is that something you have experienced with the new Rival groupset as well?
Would like to avoid that...
this can happen when „Shimano guys“ set up the FD with their understanding. It‘s not difficult, but different 💁♂️. Just use the supplied set up tool
The extra noise is caused by the coating on the cassette. SRAM discontinued the black coated version and is doing silver only I believe.
yes they did, that was the reason
I just bought a bike with Rival. I haven’t even ridden it yet. But it looks great.
thats awesome!!! it is avery nice group, you are getting top tier quality shift just a little heavier
Great videos thanks for all the input
Thank you for watching!!!
Another great video. With all the guys riding Red & Force, they all complaining of chain noise, and they have tried every oil, grease, wax to quiet the chain. And to top things off many were having chain drops from the big chain to small chain ring, come to find out they needed a setup gauge fro the front derailleur.
Fro the video, Rival seems to shift better and chain was quieter as well. Hopefully Sram will incorporate what they learned and us it on the newer Generations groupsets.
Lets see what Shimano will release later this year
yea thats what I am hoping that this actually gets into the red and force cassettes and makes them nice r
The obvious answer is that the that best buy is Shimano 105 Di2 or Ultegra Di2 unless you want a cordless drill's battery hanging of the back of your bike, in that case by Sram.
yea I cant waait to get my hands on the new shimano di2
The fit of the hoods is a joke on rival, but the rest looks really very good. I got a Rival 1 groupo (11 speed) on my crosser. Even though it's partially made so damned cheap, it works flawlessly over the years.
a lot of people are liking the rival hood shape especially the pro riders
Setup if i went with sram etap:
*Force chain(lighter)
*Force crank(for more options)
*Rival cassette(quick and quiet shifts)
*Rival brake calipers(simplicity)
*Rival hoods/shifters(simplicity and esthetics/more shimano-ish..lol)
*Rival or force derailleurs
Interesting that you thought rival shifts faster, I’m a Sram user, both force and Red, I recently built a new Madone with a mixture of Red chainset, cassette with force mechs and Rival shifters, mainly because that’s all I could get, but I’ve decided I like the look and feel of rival shifters better, as you noted they are smaller in your hands, I believe the faster shifting is something to do with the rival shifters because I swear mine shifts faster than the complete force or Red groupsets! And I am using force shifters so it can’t be anything to do with the mechs, or the cassette as I have a red cassette, I just wish Sram would update force and Red to look and feel like the rival shifters!
thats what I was saying i just felt they were mroe responsive, I have no reason for it but just to me it felt more responsive in hand
On point on the break down between Rival and Force. Hell yeah! $1k will put a smile on my face...😁
thanks so mcuh
Coming from SRAM Rival and up mechanical, experience has taught me SRAM Red is the better option. My Red AXS is perfect at any price.
yea of course but it is 4300 compared to 1600 for the ful gropup of rival
well according to website red is 653 grams lighter and force is 270 to 300grams lighter.
In my opinion get rival and change crank and cassette to that of red. you might be able to save 200 to 300grams.
hell yea
Changing the crank wouldn’t be a great move because then you loose the power meter on the Rival, probably it‘s best feature. Swooping the Rival AXS Cassette with a Red Cassette would probably be the cheapest significant upgrade. Also, not taking the stock brake discs, but taking Shimano XTR instead.
@@LarsRR just get a quarq power meter on the red crank and go with 50-37 if you want too
Ordered a Ventum NS1 with Rival AXS for $3329 shipped. Gonna take 6 weeks tho. Can’t wait
that sounds so nice!!! just suckks for the wait but I mean thats not the longest I have heard lol
exactly what I am doing.. I got a rival groupset and now changed to sram red 2x chainring and cassette :)
very nice
Unless you're racing up mountains, the weight will make very little difference. For most riders AND racers, a few hundred grams will make no difference. I like lighter stuff because it's fun to be a little bit of a bike nerd but I also recognize it is all-but-completely irrelevant to performance in any meaningful way.
this is very true!!!
Great groupset but for gravel riders the larger hoods make for more hand contact area in rough conditions which i could see this groupset going to!
Great point!
It looks pretty cool to be honest. The 650g difference to way more expensive groups isn't so bad. I don't like the crank though, it looks pretty cheap and plasticy. The Rival crank is has 873g while the Force crank is around 744g and Red even 609g. On the other hand Rival offers a cheap version with Power Meter.
And I agree. The lower price point will push others to produce reasonably priced groupset a and eventually push prices down
thats what I am thinking too
great review and about the quality of the crankset,
are they both about the same?
I mean both cranks are nice but I mean the force is carbon and the rival is alloy
The real test I’d like to see if a blind test. Put a rider on Rival, Force, and Shift - and let’s see if they can tell the difference. I’m sure you’d be able to tell the difference if you’re feeling the hoods (the shape/ergo is different) but I wonder if they’d be able to feel a difference between the shifting.
Further, let’s see if someone could tell the difference between shifting where the only difference is the mech, chain, chainring, cassette - and the hoods are the same.
I have a feeling the top level riders might be able to tell the difference but entry level or amateur riders wouldn’t be able to tell the difference
yea who knows I mean honestly the shifting is pretty similar between the two and sram evenm states that it is the same program and software just the hardware was changed out
Completely agree about the $1600 groupset. Finally Shimano will stop dragging their feet. It feels like they aren’t put enough into R&D
yea I hope they come outr and murder sram to be honest and have a fight to make the copnsumers happy
They need wireless. I'm pretty loyal to Shimano from decades of riding and only having one groupset I didn't love, which was Campy Chorus. Every Shimano gruppo I've had has been flawless. I still have a bike set up on my trainer that's got a 20 year old Dura Ace group on it that works 95% as well as the day I first set it up. My newest bike is latest generation Ultegra mechanical. I'll switch to electronic when Shimano does wireless.
DThis video is proof that the "Holy Grail" of bicycles is the pursuit of less weight. The ONLY reason why someone would buy Sram Red for 3x the price is to save weight. Performance is as good and even better in this case on 1st tier group. And I assure you that it doesn't cost SRAM significantly more to make Red over Rival yet they charge 3x per much because they can. VEBLEN GOODS
I think my red shifts better and has better brakes the the rival. Rival feels like a solid option but the red groupset just feels better overall.
@@Robert-pm6bm I don't believe you
Same with the MTB group sets. The GX is just as good as the XX1, just heavier.
@@Bpf1893 Yep. It is all marginal gains with weight being the sole differentiator. The bike manufacturers purposely spec these bikes apart in weight and hence price on purpose.
lmao
Some people have speculated that he better shifting from the Rival is a result of the rear cassette. The one piece ones on the Force and Red are harder to make although lighter. I have Red on my road bike but am really considering Rival for my gravel bike to make them the same style of shifting. I think it is perfect for gravel personally. I won't get as upset if I damage something.
But the rival is also a one piece. I just think heavier materials make it more dense and as a result more quiet being able to suppress noise better
@@GCPerformance18 oh, thank you. I thought it was multiple pieces.
Doesn't the rear mech on Rival use a spring clutch to control chain movement whereas Red & Force us ‘Orbit’ fluid damper? Could this explain the perceived difference?
Great review, What’s the weight of the sl7 with the new sram rival you had on the video? Thanks!
I did a full video of the bike with the weight
The fact that the rival hood covers don’t go flush with the bars is just ridiculous
Nice video. I have hard choice between two bikes and while Rival eqpd bike has nicer paint scheme, but heavier and alloy wheels, and Force bike has less attractive paint and integrated stem+ carbon wheels. The price difference is 900 euro. I like both. 😀
lmao this is the tough choice is comes down to color lol
@@GCPerformance18 mind also 900 Euro
Very on point video man.
Thank you so much!!!
Great video comparison.... Now where can I order this bike in a 61?
lmao I do not knwo right now it is going to be hard to find this bike in that size
It would be interesting to see the hood differences from Disc to Caliper. The caliper ones seem to be very slim compared to disc... maybe I'm wrong though.
yea they are much smaller because there is no need for a resiviuor in the brake hood for the hydraulic hood, if they could make them that small with hydralic fluid it would be amazing
Great video! Maaan I really wish it has a rim brake option, really like shifters but my bike has rim brakes
yea I know but maybe inthe future you can always mix and match
Definitely interested in running this as a 1x on a gravel bike
yea I knwo
great comparison! thanks!
Thanks for watching!
How much lighter is Force? Are we talking about 300 grams or +1kg?
I dont know for sure I would have to do a side by side, but right now we do not have any groupos
Curious to know what you would do if you had to choose between two fully built options - one a 2021 BMC Roadmachine 01 with Force, and a 2022 Tarmac SL7 with Rival - both options at nearly identical price points...another source of concern is the SL7 I can only source in my size in white - but that's a different matter! Any opinions would be welcome.
come on now.... I am extremely biased here, I love the sl7 and I like rival more then force for my preference....
Thanks for this review, was 2nd guessing my choice till I came across this.
I have my sram red etap 11 speed (rim brake) and absolutely love the hoods. That alone keeps me from wanting to uograde.
yea they are so much smaller then the 12 speed
In your opinion , what is a shimano 1x GRX 812, comparable to in terms of shifting quality and quickness, in shimano road line up and SRAM road line up?
shimano grx is tried and true, doesnt have the crazy weight or the bling but it is shimanos only gravel group for a reason, it does the job amazing and hood design people love for it
Do you know what is the weight difference between Rival and Ultegra R8070? Cool video BTW...
I do not know for sure btu I am sure there weights added online
Have you already tested using Sram Force 12v current with Montain Bike cassette? 10-50 Sram cassette. Does it work correctly? Thank you very much
Very heavy? Define heavy! Weight weenies :) I have the force and love it. I'll take it for $1600, but I'll go for the single drive.
yea I know I mean we are talking about pounds like 1-3 pouns whihc is nothing
The chipped cogs you're showing are present on all drivetrains, it's the chain's attempt to shift when not perfectly matched with the cog. Sram unlocked backward compatibility between AXS 12s ( except Rival AXS ) and eTap 11s last year via a software update. Most AXS options are not available when AXS shifters are paired with an eTap rear derailleur though.
What intrigues me about your setup is how does the derailleur know when to stop at the last cog on a 11s cassette? I mean if paired with eTap 11s it's very clear. Also one can fiddle with cog spacing as well if needed, but the AXS derailleur has 11 steps programmed into it's movement range (eTap 11s has 10 steps) without using hard limits like limit screws ( which may potentially damage the electric motor ) how does it stop? Do you just remember to stop? In your 1st video you attempted to overshift on purpose yet it didn't happen. I can't wrap my head around it, what am I missing? The AXS app doesn't allow any cassette settings.
I've got probaly 12 almost new cassettes, wheels, hubs etc from my over 10 years of 11s and would very much like to use them, AXS consumables are very expensive.
Is it possible to buy the Rival rear derailleur and shifters only separately ? (I run customer 1X carbon cranks up front). I already have the chain rings that will work with AXS flat top chains.
yes you can but it is going to be hard right now
Where do you put the Ultegra there? Lighter than the Rival and a little bit more quiet. But else?
I mean yea its right there but two different shifting ocmpanies I woul;d say more people prefer ultegra di2 over the force but thats just what I have heardd
Damn I wanna see a mullet build using GX Axs + Rival Axs.That would be dream gravel
yea I knwo its gonna be on gravel bikes ofr suire like the diverge ocmp and shit
Did you say this Rival has a power meter too? If not, wonder if SRAM/Quarq would eventually make a crank spider for it like the Force has.
yea they do it is 350 dollar increase
If you don't care about running a 10t on your cassette (my wheels have a HG freehub)). Can you run an ultegra 8100 12 speed 11-30 cassette?
I literally just filmed a video tonight on it, but it is going live tomorrow, check it out, I run a 12 speed shimano cassette on sram rival and a sram axs cass on a shimano ult di2
That's great news. I can't wait to watch. I think you'll have the answer that a lot of people are asking... A 12 speed cassette without the price of an XDR cassette would be ideal and also give the benefit of less jumps between gears. I just received my rival axs groupset but opted for a shimano 11-30t instead of a sram 10-30t... Looking forward to your video and hopefully I didn't throw my money away
Great comparison! How do you adjust disc brakes manually? 3:24
Just by hand on the caliper. Loosen the bolts and just move it where it needs to be
@@GCPerformance18 this is not the same as contact adjust. Or lever reach.
Does the rival cassette come in black too like the force’s? How much is the casette of the force?
no they do not the only cassette to come in black is force, I think the cassette is 230 or maybe 250
@@GCPerformance18 Aw. But a black casette looks 🔥 thanks man, awesome content as always. Your content fills my Day dreaming of a roubaix someday soon. 🍻
Well rival probably looks the best blacked out is guess put a red Cassette , I went with di2 over red because of black out just looks better
yea red cassettes loks so nice, I hope it becomes the norm coming up for shimano and everythihgn
so no chance to do the typical triathlon bike setup with additional control of gears from extension bars using rival?
You can. You can get a blip box I believe and make it work
@@GCPerformance18 could you please make sure it works like this. I can't find any confirmation on the web.
I asked on Q&A forum bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/79104/sram-etap-axs-compatibility-rival-road-setup-adding-sram-etap-clics and got the answer, which makes me skeptical.
I'd just get blips and force or red shifters, then rival everything else
if Rival shifts faster than Force, do you think there will be an update to Force and Red coming soon?
Sram killed red and force for more profit. Red was really good. If someone is to go 12 speed and need to replace parts then it has to be anything thats in the axs groupset which cost more expensive than shimano. But if you can swing by and makes you happy then thats all that matters.
I hope so I think they are working to make it better
You didn’t tell us the overall weight of the tarmac comp...wld be nice if you could share
check my last video I just revied that bike
Why are the rival hoods not flush against the bar like the force on the other bike?
That’s just the fitting of the plastic part of shifter.
I think the perfect groupset would be all rival with the red crankset. I just like the look of the red crankset, being lighter is an added bonus. Although the hoods on rival where they meet the bar and flare out kinda bother me in terms of aesthetics.
yea and also a red cassette it would be a nice group
@@GCPerformance18 a new red cassette with the dampening rings would be great
I totally agree...im thinking about getting a rival groupset(derailleurs, cassette,shifters) with a force or red crank..or just simply do a ultegra Di2 set up
Why rival hoods are not flush with the handlebars? It strikes my attention.
thats hwo they look
I think the 1x rival crank can be swapped into 2x if you use a force spider
no it cant its one peice of metalllllllllll
I’ll send you a picture on insta
I sent the pictures via Instagram but the 1rival crankset the chainring is a direct mount chain ring with the sram pattern. I am currently putting together a sram rival 1x group to put on my allez sprint and happen to have the crankset.
FORCE AXS is great (if you use earplugs to block out the noice)
lmfaooo this is true
Can i keep the shimano 11 speed crank in order to keep its powermeter?
no
This rival seems like good stuff. Can cancel the weight penalty by making the rider lose weight 😂
My philosophy in cycling:
Get good and bike fit before buying the frame
Top tier frame
Top tier carbon wheel
Saddle that fit best to rider ass
Mid range group (105, rival, potenza)
Alloy stem/bar
However i still think buying complete bike is still much better value than ala carte build unless there is spare groupset and parts lying around although you get to choose parts individually.
lol ytea just loose the 1 pound of weight
is rival a 10-36 and force/red 10-33 on tarmac? is that a big difference?
force now makes a 10-36 but yes the rival is 36 but you can also make it a smaller cassette it def helps with the climbing
@@GCPerformance18 going smaller would help with climbing? or 36 helps with climbing?
@@andrewkreuter3147 36 helps with climbing (as opposed to 28)
Can you run sram red or force etap tt shifters with the etap rival set?
yes they will work
Good evening, can I replace the rival cassette for a forse?
yes it is no problem
That tonk sound with the Force gs kind of annoys me, the Rival really seems like a better option compared to the Force.
hahahahhaha
What's! the chance you doing a split screen of the two being shifted?, wanna put your editing skills to the test
bruh 0 out of 10 but no lie, I thought baout how sick that would be and I wanted to do it but I do not know how, maybe ill try.... keep an eye out
I was gonna ask for the same thing. Why not just put the bikes back to back so the rear derailleurs are facing each other, so one person can press the shifters at the same time to get an accurate timing of the shifts. Ive read on other reviews that the rival shifts feel quicker, but GC performance would be first to actually prove this.
Cool video, I've watched some rival reviews, but a comparison like this clears things up!!
Is there a part you can point out as 'being responsible' for the weight difference? I wasn't able to find all the weights per part listed online easily. But for example; the biggest difference in weight is in the cranks, or the cassette (maybe expressed in a percentage)?
Other question, will the inside of the hoods always be this bulky? Like it's sticking out instead of being flat with the bartape.... Seems like it doesn't fit the bars very well... Or is it just these bars and tape that cause that?
I really don't like the black force cassette btw, even if I had the force group I'd probably change it for a rival or red cassette
mainly casste and also shifters, and crank but thats it... the cassette ius much heavier thenn the red caseete
This Klong klong!!!!!! I'm in love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahhahah it is very nice
The nemesis of shimano 105 (sram rival). Or I am wrong?
hell yea
I like the loudness
really!!!
What a great and informative video!! Thank you. 300 grams.... .661 lbs hmm
you are very welcome
Bonjour
Comment peut on récupérer l’intérieure de la pedale rival avec capteur de puissance pour me réinstaller dans le pédalier sram force ?
Quelqu’un a t’il une idée
Merci
you cant, that only works on the rival it will not work on the force crank you need to replace the whole system
@@GCPerformance18 , c’est vraiment pas sympa de la part de sram , le même tube d’axe que le rival et impossible de me sortir pour le mettre dans la manivelle gauche du sram force !!! Vraiment commercial 🤔
“ I’m a child I’m sorry” 😂 😆
lmao
Can you install the casette onto a regular 11 speed wheel ?
No it needs to be xdr hub ready
I hear you say one bi or two bi a lot. Does that mean the ring?
Yes the front gears
What's Up with the Pie Plate?
i leave it on all bieks lol
Biggest question is, how's maintenance of this?
It’s very easy. Easier then mechanical
Where your shop at?
bicycle generation south Florida
What’s the force groupo price ?
I wanna say it varies, but right around 2500 depends on power or non power cranks
@@GCPerformance18 rival seems v interesting buy now 😉
Why that big gap between the hoods and the handlebar? It’s horrible!!!
just the way sram rival has there flair at the end I do not knwo why but when riding you do not feel or notice it
God video 👍🏻
Thanks so much, I am glad u enjoyed it!!!
I Just got the force groepset so i have to stick buy it👍
The force group is great still!! I’m telling you