The theory that Nzoth read our minds when we jumped timelines to save Chromie, and have been preparing for us ever since, when put into perspective, make so much sense to me.
I'm still convinced we never defeated N'zoth. He duped everyone in 8.3, a sectioned off part of Ny'alotha, a farce of a fight, just like the wrathion fight at the start of Nya'lotha. Even worse, we are still carrying a parasite with us...
we fought "vision of N'Zoth", which means that entire fight was a fake dream we had about defeating him. Maybe there will be a raid tier in DF about fighting N'Zoth, the real one since hes trying to corrupt everyone who are our allies like the dragon flights. They have done it in the past with Deathwing.
Il’gynoth said: “5 lanterns now darkened, the flame they seek will light the masters way”. Could the darkened lanterns be the dragon aspects who are trying to get back their powers?
I thought the 5 lanters were the pillars of creation? With all the "drowning in a circle of stars" thing. Tbh with all that gor changed your theory is pretty good ngl
As someone who still has the Gift of N'Zoth, I have waited for this! To be honest, I want to speculate but I simply can't. Mainly because i've come to the conclusion Blizzard keeps these whispers vague as possible so nothing can box them in.
It's why I personally don't give two shits about Old God whispers. I've been playing WoW since Vanilla, 99% percent of Old God whispers don't foreshadow or mean jack shit. Nothing ever fucking happens with them.
@@Rawnblade13 Dead wrong, and only someone who doesn't know the whispers nor the lore would say that. All their whsuoers foreshadow events. Turalyon claimed Anduin's throne. That was one of the whispers. I could list more, but I don't need to. My point has been validated.
@@monkeysk8er33 Dead wrong? Please. I got a long list of Old God whispers going back to Wrath of the Lich King that never went anywhere or lead to anything. You reveal your own ignorance of the whispers if you think they all foreshadow things, most of them don't. Half of them are just references, either to Lovecraft itself or other properties. The other half is just vague crap that can fit just about anything with only a tiny portion that get specific. And only a few of those actually lead to anything, and it's almost always far more underwhelming and dull than anything players speculated them to be.
I've had trouble getting excited about WoW lore considering how prone it is to retcon or buried in books most players will never read....but I just can't stay away from your channel, you do such a great job explaining things, even if they're almost certain to change at the whim of the devs. Thanks for all your work Nobbel
I feel like Galakrond was probably the first dragon they attempted to turn to an aspect which is why Odin was against it and along the way he became the aspect of decay. Which is why we never really saw that magic till recently with the Gnolls and explains why he can raise the dragons to unliving state. With Galakrond's death the titans locked away and hid all records of Decay magic as well since it was unpredictable.
Intriguing, but the Yogg influences are clear as day, i dont think Tyr & the Keepers would have used any death magic, and yoggy boy refers to himself as a god of death (old lore pre cosmic rework) so we’ll have to wait and see
@@cxfxcdude The titans probably dabbled in it. Hence the creation of G'huun. Decay is also the closest of the elements to death on the cosmic map. The Yogg thing might just be influence or Yogg corrupted all of Northrend maybe a shrine of Decay or the entrance to that school of magics domain was in Northrend. Andrassil / Vordrassil might also lead into it since it was destroyed and corrupted by Yogg and lead to the Voids entrance to the Emerald Dream/Nightmare and the Nightmare is just like a Decayed version of the dream. Could also make sense as to why Malfurion was scared in the Rift of Uhm maybe that's where the sleeping Decay lord is and Decay magic would be the polar opposite of his druid magic.
@@cxfxcdude I don't know if it was retconned yet, but the Titans were supposed to be terrified of Shadowlands and if so, they should be scared of Death as a cosmological force as well. Decay would be too close to it for their own comfort - while Titans may do questionable shit at times, I feel it would be a step too far for them. I doubt the Titans were playing with Decay, but rather sought a way to extinguish it as quickly as possible (Uldir and accidental creation of G'huun). Decay seems to have VERY strong connections to the Old Gods (Yoggy being responsible for Galakrond's madness, the creation of Emerald Nightmare and calling himself a god of death SHOULD indicate his close connection to Decay). Decay feels like Old God's version of Death magic, but maybe it's just my gut feeling
@@hegvul Most of the times when someone who knows even a little about WoW's lore says its their gut feeling, they are right. Coming from an over 10 years old WoW vet.
I've said it since BfA, I don't think we ever beat N'Zoth. The raid we went to was Visions of N'Zoth, just like the minor visions which were glimpses of possible futures, the raid was a glimpse of a future he showed us where we won. I think it was just us entering his visions again on a larger scale, to make us believe we won. While the real N'Zoth sat back and waited.
@@ashendant1317 There is a large part of N'Zoth still on the surface of Azeroth that is mostly untouched, it is right below the Shrine of the Storms and is where the second part of the Crucible of Storms raid takes place. It is called the Tendril of Corruption. So it is very possible for him to come back since not all of him was destroyed.... if he in fact actually was to begin with. I have a theory that Xal'atath will resurrect him, and part of that plan might involve the Tendril of Corruption.
@Josh Cal You're just saying that because like most people, they hated Shadowlands so much, they'd rather have it retconned by the whole thing being a dream. I didn't like shadowlands, but holy hell...let it go.
@@scorpinok3006 Actually, us defeating N'Zoth either being a vision so he can see how we would do it, it being a part of his plan lines up with how he plans things out. It wouldn't be the first time he turned a loss into a win so to speak.
The roots burying deeper quote could be talking about the remnant of the void. The void flower left in the emerald dream. Shadow priests could also interact with it I believe.
The remnant was purged away, when you go back to the dream to get the Green Flight in BFA (first time we see Myrthra) to power up the Heart of Azeroth, you can follow Ysera’s spirit towards the remnant and tear out its heart (a wilting flower in a nest of tentacles/roots on the surface not taking root properly, it seemed to be struggling to find purchase) leaving a withered husk implied to be dead.
@@cxfxcdude yep, thats right, in the last part of the dragonflight questline we move inside of emerald dream, i've checked if void remnant is still there, not even roots, just a chest, with no void related items
I don't think it's an accident that "Azeroth" sounds so much like "Azathoth." Azathoth, Lovecraft's planet-sized god hovering at the center of the universe...
.@@lukegrimish1611 Even with that in mind, the vast, vast majority of Warcraft lore - especially the parts that at least has some coherency - are blatantly stolen and/or adapted from other works. They rarely try to hide it. And this is not a knock on Blizzard either. Originality is a white lie anyway, and I enjoy WoW lore for the most part =)
It's merely coincidence, at most someone liked the name and use something similar but never with that intent. I don't remember if Azeroth is used on Warcraft 1, but it was on Warcraft 2, even on it's cinematic, where the starting line is "The once might army of Azeroth lie in the blackning and burning remains of Stormwind Keep", which seems to indicate that Azeroth was not the world but merely the country of Stormwind. The lore has been evolving constantly, which is why there's so many issues with canon.
I've been of the opinion since I heard the whispers during the Black Empire part of that quest chain that what we're seeing is a pretty elegant explanation of why N'zoth is so interested in the player character during BfA. He didn't see the future. He remembered us. A pair of dragons - beings descended from the very elementals the Black Empire was trying to subjugate - fell into the middle of a battlefield of what may well have been the climatic battle of the Old Gods' campaign against the Elemental Lords. And soon after enters a new type of creature: the player character. A creature likely touched by multiple cosmic forces - including (assuming the character did the quest to gain N'zoth's gift and/or fought him in the raid) by N'zoth's own hand, er, tentacle - who was able to fight or sneak their way through this battlefield and escape along side these time-traveling lizards. N'zoth is smart. He's a schemer. And he's patient. He may even be able to scan the player character's minds to catch some glimpses of the future they came from. But even if not, he now has a point of reference going forward. He has the player character to act as a beacon as he looks into the possible futures and find the one(s) with the our character in it and have a fair idea of what's coming and how to take advantage of it. And when our characters show up in front of him during BfA, he uses his power to complete another circle. He touches our character with his power so that when they one day end up back in the past, the loop can be completed.
There were rumors around BfA that we never actually won against N'zoth. Sure, we went to the Black Empire and 'Care Bear stared' him to death, but that was his plan all along, to let us in... so that he could trap us in a never-ending "dream" where we THINK we won and all the events after that battle never took place. Obviously, with Dragonflight, that can't be the case, but some strong points of interest include: You can still gather Azerite and power up your gear to this day. Said gear AND the Heart of Azeroth were not nerfed for Shadowlands (Blizz has never let a fully powered Legendary/heirloom expansion item continue on with no nerfs). You can still "farm" the mission table with full rewards; all other mission tables have been nerfed to reduce the amount of gold and special items you get. We never did anything with Sargeras' sword in Silithus. N'zoth is known to not be the most powerful, but he is the most cunning and deceitful of them all. I read somewhere he could even trick other Old Gods into doing his bidding (don't quote me on that, though). It's interesting to think that in Shadowlands, when you do a questline with Alexandros, you are told that "the Light and the Void mean nothing here" and yet the Light is present in Revendreth, along with the Narru shard which Denathrius wanted and the Void has made attempts to invade the Shadowlands. Not quite the "nothing" they make it out to be if it's a real threat of takeover. I guess you could just chalk it up to terrible story writing (let's face it, Blizz is the worst at telling a coherent story).
The thing with n'zth tricking other old gods intodoing his bidding is definitely wrong/has never been said in the lore. If you read it somewhere, its likely the person was writing his own headcanon. We know N'zoth was the weakest, and that he had a penchant for turning defeat into victory. If he was really the smartest, we also dont really know, that as well has been ben explicitely stated.
Man, we were just having a massive conversation about this in our guild discord earlier today! Afterwards, I watched a bunch of old god lore videos to catch up...and now, as fate has aligned, Nobbel makes a video on this very thing! My personal take, we fucked up. Time travel ALWAYS leaves open a paradox of some kind. N'Zoth knows not only who we are now, but what the future possibly holds not only for him, but also the rest of the old gods that we have fought and presumably killed. I'm thinking that N'Zoth has read our minds and there is going to be some retconning bullshit that the old gods are in fact not actually dead, because with us having travelled back in time, we gave them knowledge of how to avoid it. With there being a few hints in the DragonFlight expansion, including the literal eyes and tentacles of N'Zoth being hidden around the continent...this 100% fits together and makes almost perfect sense. I'm not sure what other stuff could possibly happen or maybe what we've missed...but I think in the future of the game, i'd like to see the old gods try to reestablish the Black Empire. Maybe even see the return of the elemental lords as well.
I think you're right on this. Also i think the only reason they went out of their way to include the Azmerloth part was to show that there's consequences for messing with the timeline. We killed some creatures there and wouldn't that have rippling effects on our current timeline?
As far as I remember most of our "fan theories" were always annihilated by Blizzard, because there was no more surprise and plot-twists, since it has been already guessed (even if the theory was top notch story). And here we are again, if Blizzard is going to actually allow this fan theory to fullfil - N'zoth reading our mind and being able to see what we have done throu all these years, so he could prepare himself - It is going to be mindblowing as hell
I think the further conflict of the expansion will involve the element of Decay, which has already been hinted at in Azure Span. It's said in the Chronicle that Azeroth's elements are so chaotic because Azeroth's World-Soul consumed most of the planet's Spirit, which is a balancing element which is in opposition to Decay.
See “It was all N’zoths plan” is INFINITELY more practical and engaging than the fucking Jailer. I remember seeing somewhere, someone saying that narratively Shadowlands could have been salvaged if the plot twist was that at the end of BFA we had actually LOST and we were stuck in a vision of N’zoth then broke free with plot armor.
N'Zoth could see a thousand futures, and he can see the one in which he is victorious. Us appearing in the past confirmed to him which timeline was playing out and thus set in motion his plans for thousands of years to come, up until his death. Everything happened as he had planned, all because he saw us in the past.
I like the theory that Azeroth isn't a titan world soul but rather something of a primal elemental soul. Something that is a connection between the elements, which could be connected to the voice about her waking up the others. If the primal elemental would be the glue keeping the rest of the elemental souls together, there would make sense for other elemental souls to be out there (perhaps one soul for each type of element?). After all, who knows? Maybe all archetypes of Order, Disorder, Elemental, Light, Dark, etc have their own types of world souls and are trying to "corrupt" or convert other world souls to do their own bidding. After all, the whole universe is about push and pull, the forces going against each other. It's also fun how so many stories converge towards Azeroth, almost as if it's a giant star or black hole, drawing everything closer towards it.
As it seems the eggs are in the corrupted water, perhaps this answers how the Infinite Dragons comes to be. The eggs will drink the water much like a plant does I assume. N'zoth probably gets the idea when we go back in time. Us going back in time has already happened for him, but for us it was yet to come. So his death was a strategic move in order to create the Infinites.
I think the infinites will be a thing whenever we connect with the “Heretics” on Avaloren. They seem like a great place to put “the great secret/truth” that breaks Nozzy’s faith in the titans
While at this point in time I have no thoughts on the new whispers themselves, hearing them got me to look back at Il'gynoth's whispers. Some of them are obvious and have been touched upon before, but given that we are quite the few expansions after Legion now I believe it's prudent to look back to them. There are three whispers I'd like to talk about first since I believe they may directly refer to the events of Dragonflight 'From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength.' - I believe this quote directly refers to Iridkiron, with what we know about him now after the raid and all the datamined information (As well as the new N'zoth whispers), it seems more than likely that he is indeed corrupted by the Old Gods and will be trying to, willingly or otherwise, bring them back. 'Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.' - I remember for a while that people (Me included) thought this quote was referencing Pillars of Creation. Now, however, I believe that it may refer to the Oathstones and that, by bringing them back online, we've done something that will allow the Old Gods to come back. 'At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.' - This one is far more speculative on my part than the previous two, but I believe that they may refer to either Ysera or Alexstrasza. Now, to look at the other set of Il'gynoth whispers from BfA and what they may imply. 'Five lanterns now darkened. The flames they seek will light the Masters' way.' - This one is directly connected to the other Il'gynoth whisper. The Oathstones are silenced (or were) and the flames they seek have found them and reignited them. 'The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green.' - This one is interesting. It is either referencing both Ysera or Alexstrasza or just the former. While its true that Alexstrasza is the life binder, the Emerald Dream is also very much related to life and healing, so it could be strictly talking about Ysera. Finally, I'd like to look at some things from the Puzzle-Box of Yogg-Saron, these ones may not directly refer to the future of Dragonflight, but some of them are curious to look back on. 'Even death may die.' - If we go with the story that the Jailer has been planned all this time and whatnot, this quote could reference his ultimate defeat. 'Beneath the shadow of the darkened spire, there is no light, no mercy, only void, and the chaos within.' - With this one, I am somewhat leaning towards Tyrhold being referenced here. That is all I have thought of for now, as always great video Nobbel!
N'zoth can see inside our head. We defeated him and then went back in time and met him. He can see our memory of how we defeated him and now he has thousands of years to think about how to respond to that. Contingencies? Fall back plans? Deceptions?
i think the water one hints at Wrathion honestly, and the dream one is of azeroth's soul, harbering void energy from all 4 old gods but not necessarily in a damaged way, more like a hybrid of order and chaos and awakened to the truth, maybe she knows something
I just hope there actually is a plan for this and that blizz don't just randomly come back to this 5 years from now to retcon in an answer that barely fits like they do for their other recent lore.
Writing is pretty much ALWAYS a retcon as long as you not just repeat old things. You write something new, that wasn't talked about before in what you wrote, what can always be only a glimps of the world you created. Also real life is full of retcons = you learn something that has always been that way, YOU or even all humankind just didn't know it. Look at sciencs. A long row of retcons. "Oops, we thought it is like that, but it never was, hu." You people treat the word retcon like it is the sign of lazy writing or whatever. It's not. Make up stuff as you please with no link to anything or just completely contradicting or ignoring other things, that would be lazy. Modern writing is full of that, but not really the WoW storyl.
Blizzard once held the standard for gaming lore and story telling. Feels like they do now is poop the corporate bed :( I hope they get their act together
@@miriamweller812 Could you hypothesize, that everything, I mean EVERYTHING, could be just an simulation? I dunno how many people have heard about the double slit wave particle duality theory. It basically theorisizes that when observing how atoms and particles, they behave differently when observed or not. Meaning, there could be a super computer that simulates all of this xd
The fact Blizzard brought us back to that specific place where we fought N"Zoth is an obvious hint that N'Zoth did not die or that we did not fight him at all even. I think we have never fought any of the Old Gods.
I think the one about roots was actually about Teldrassil. Teldrassil's corruption hadn't happened yet from N'Zoth's perspective back then, of course, and even if it was eventually cleansed, it caused a LOT of damage.
I believe that, since we went back in time, being watched and whispered to by N'zoth. I agree with Nobbel. N'zoth peered into our minds and saw everything that happened from that point forward. I have a feeling that whenever we or the Aspects plant this new World Tree, as the branches grow taller, the roots grow deeper. Getting closer and closer to the influence/ corruption of the Old Gods. And with that quote by N'zoth "Deeper and deeper its roots will welcome our embrace." That should be proof enough. Sh*ts about to get real xD
N'zoth's whispers are so much more clearer now with War Within. SPOILERS AHEAD!!!! "You follow him to the deep places" could be referring to us following Anduin down to the Kingdom of the Nerubians after he gets kidnapped (again). Although I am not clear yet how the "Dark Waters" could tie into this. "Her dreams sing beneath the surface" could be referring to Azeroth's Song that Alleria is hearing and Locustwalker has stated that his Worldsoul of Karesh song the same song before it fell prey to the void lord Dimensius. Can't wait to see where this leads us. Its been a while since I have been this excited for wow lore.
Merithra said that her mother is different now, that she has touch of death on her. It might be the post-effect of this missile launched into her by Xavius. This might have had a print of corruption on it as well as Ysera now, so she could be the one who could corrupt seed perhaps :)?
What i'm still confused about, in the crucible of storms raid, n'zoth had one particular whisper which basically foreshadowed shadowlands:" His crown will open the way." Obiously referring to sylvanas breaking the helm of domination to open the way to the shadowlands. What i ask myself is, do the old gods somehow benefit from this ? Why would he even whisper that, just because he can ? Only thing actually is, that when, (yeah i know we want to forget that part about the story) zovaal took the life energy from azeroth through icc, which is basically made out of yogg sarons blood, zovaal maybe allowed yogg saron to actually enter the shadowlands, what influence that will have in the future, who knows. Just a thought.
I think it would be interesting to see what Primalists and the Incarnates would think if they learned that the elemental energy that they feel is the natural state of things came from there being a Titan World Soul within the planet, would they want to even purge themselves since they are also tainted by Order magic in a way?
Tyr made experiments in his basement infusing baby protodrakes with everything he could think of. He said it whit his own mouth "Hologram Tyr says: Infused with the element of water, this proto-dragon has lost its fire breathing capabilities and gained an equally lethal ability in its stead--the frozen possibilities of ice. Hologram Tyr says: The fact that a proto-dragon's complete inversion of their elemental tendency is not only possible, but so thorough, generates an intriguing thought exercise. Hologram Tyr says: Is there any element--or even energy--that, given appropriate conduit, vessel, and time, proto-dragons are unable to integrate?"I don't wanna see the faces of the Incarnates when they find out that they are nothing more than the first failed attempt for the dragon Aspects, and Tyr is their papa.🤣
"With many eyes, they will see again. They will drink and be uplifted" This fits perfectly as Nerubians are drinking the black blood which is the old god blood, and they got uplifted to the ascended "Deeper, Deeper its root will reach and welcome our embrace" I believe this has to do with the next patch, perhaps something with a new threat after the end of Nerub Ar cinematic. Xalatath seems to have something up her slevee. She did not care about Ansurek but I believe something might be up. "Her Dreams sing beneath the surface. Our Dreams, Our song" This is a referrence to the "Radiant Song" that has been ringing out across Azeroth, I think there is something more to this. "You will follow him to the deep places, the dark waters will flow in his wake" This I might relate to Iridikron. As you all know he allied with Xalatath. He did also mention that he "will be waiting" during the stale mate between Vyrannoth and Iridikron. By Dark waters, I think this refers to the black blood in TWW.. I believe there is much more to Xalatath and his story line. I believe there is more to this. But some of the lines are fullfilled.
I think the roots running deep are from the void flower planted by Valithria Dreamwalker in the Emerald Dream. It's the model for Ysera that shows us it's there, but there's a theory that it was an infiltration.
Dude, imagine an expansion where all of the old gods return and part of the black empire is back, growth everywhere etc. basically cataclysm treatment 2.0 but MUCH bigger scale. That would be sick, but very dark, perhaps too dark for an expansion theme.
No you have a great idea and there are a ton of us who feel the same... how I thought they should have handled it: In BFA spend more time on the war (which it needed) and the final tier is Azshara (so no N'zoth fight). This also allows MUCH more time to be spent on Azshara who deserved it. The final cinematic of the expansion is the chains breaking, and now for the first time ever, an Old God was FREE. The entire expansion ends on that huge cliffhanger, with everyone expecting it to be the very next expansion. N'zoth was free; no one knows where he is, where he will strike, and when. Then the sky rips open and we have to divert our attention to the Shadowlands. They told us time works differently and there would be a time skip. When we get back, we are met with the armies of the Black Empire. Only Orgrimmar and Stormwind are left unconquered, with our backs completely against the wall. N'Zoth KNEW we were going to the Shadowlands and this was the perfect opportunity to strike. The entire expansion (and the leveling experience) involves us taking back territory. Dungeons can be taking back major cities like Thunder Bluff and so on. Raids when we delve into the structures built to fight his monstrosities and weaken him, until the point we could reach him and face N'Zoth ourselves. The entire world is transformed much like the visions of N'zoth with his corruption even transforming the wildlife much like the fel did in outlands. Well anyway that's my gay fan fic of how it should have happened. XD
@@naejimba Yeah, this idea is actually amazing, building up Nzoth for so many expansions and then he finally dies by a lazer beam. So fucking dirty, so fucking shit. Danuser needs to be fired. Maybe that Metzen is back in the team -- we have a chance of seeing nzoth again.
@@swampsect , yeah I'm hoping since they can't technically die that they play it as some 4D chess move on N'Zoth's part that leads to the old gods coming back. It's the best they can do to salvage it at this point, and we still have Xal'atath out there who cut a deal with N'Zoth for her freedom. There could be more to that deal than we know, and at this point we STILL don't know exactly what the hell Xal'atath IS.
@@naejimba Indeed, being a big Lovecraft fan, Old God themes are my favorite and I know for fact that Metzen is into it too, so yeah, there's definitely hope.
Deeper and deeper the roots will reach makes me thing about Each time we getting into this emerald dream zone the place where the void thing was seems to grow .
dawn of the aspects have a lot to tell about Galakrond but they never mention old gods once out of the 5 books, Tyr just assisted in rallying the dragons and the final battle against Galakrond. The mutations were a result of Galakrond committing the sin for consuming other proto dragons which it says resulted in muted growths, eyes, limbs and wings blindly seeing and aimlessly flapping and clawing. As far as we know other proto dragons did not repeat this. It'd make sense Yogg-saron has something to do with this but nothing that i could tell in that story had anything to do with them. Also Tyr's silver hand was bitten off by Galakrond i believe.
The Void Flower was cleansed during BFA using the Heart of Azeroth. During Ysera's quest in DF you can check the place and see it former spot overgrown with natural-looking flowers
Right after Malfurion said "what is it my love" the video got cut off by a hello fresh add that started off just saying "dinner" and I got a little spooked
It's probably nothing but Nerzhul said this before Arthas became the Lich King: "Return the blade. Complete the circle. Release me from this prison" "Complete the circle" Hearing that kind of makes me think that maybe there's something linking those two things, only because that's a very specific thing to say.
Ilgynoth was a tree when he existed in the Emerald Nightmare - and at the end of that raid, was also the void flower that Ysera’s echo/afterimage was seen walking towards and disappearing into. These two things, connected through the Emerald Nightmare, sandwhich our fight with Xavius in the RIFT OF ALN, which is said to have an ethereal sort of connection to both the void and the emerald dream
We know that infinite dragonflight is actually an old-god manipulated Nozdormu thing right? So apart from galakrond, all the mentioned dragons might be the Murozond. Also since Nzoth actually acting like he knew that we were going to defeat him in a time line, he might have made the plan of corrupting the Nozdormu into Murozond to control the time line that is going to happen, in which he is going to be victorious.
Nzoth: Our Dreams, Our Song Ilgynoth: Our Earth, Our Strength I’m confident these are connected in some way. Maybe it’s just Shadow Priest madness or maybe I’m onto something
I would have initially guessed Ysera/Merithra in the case of 'dreams' (oh well) but yeah I’m very much willing to bet the one we follow into the deep will be Iridikron and he’ll somehow find a source of that corrupted waters that the Keepers missed
As a tangent I believe Azeroth will be different than any other Titan. She been exposed to vast amounts of Void Energy (Old Gods), Arcane Energy (Titans), Fel Energy (Sargaras), Necrotic Energy (Zovaal), & Life Energy (Wild Gods/Elemental Lords?) and thus might have incorporated all of these into herself thus becoming something new...something greater or something worse (only thing I don’t know about is the Light)
@@taytaystark7588 - Technically all life in the universe, including unborn Titans and native elementals, were made from specks of Light according to the Chronicle.
If N’Zoth really got caught off guard by Wrathion, a major player on Azeroth, stabbing him with the one thing that could have sealed him AKA the thing he should have been looking out for the most, that would be the most pathetic thing. I assume that N’Zoth confronting the players directly and making himself the big bad was a red herring. He probably did whatever preparation the void lords need to enter the mortal plane and then took the fall so that nobody looks further into it and finds that out. That’s the only way the end of BFA makes sense in my eyes. Then again, there is nothing stopping the bronze dragon flight from seeing the future and inform us that we’ve been duped. And then we need to ask questions about the messiness of who has the upper hand when it comes to seeing the future, old gods or bronzy bois. Ugh…
Awesome video Realized during it “Your friends will abandon you” Well it looks like the Titan Pantheon bailed had after hearing the world soul of Azeroth was corrupted
How do you imagine that working? We can at worst have set backs. What would be interesting is if we were thrown by ourselves off to a different time or a hidden continent or another world that is isolated until the final parts of the expansion. That would make everything feel fresh again. By ourselves, meeting new characters and maybe making a life for ourselves there aka housing. That would be the reset i think you'd like. Otherwise it's not like they are gonna scrap the world and characters they established for decades. They are money.
@@NemXX2 Or have them go to a different continent or world being invaded by the void. They lose in that expansion, forcing the ones living in the dying world migrate to Azeroth.
Those of us who embraced the Gift of N'Zoth, our eyes shall open once more. All shall see! I'm still not convinced there was only one N'zoth in BFA, I believe that the vision of Ny'alotha was another N'zoth that exists within the past, present, and future. Il'gynoth's roots ran deep into the Emerald Nightmare. I called it back before we step foot in Korthia, an Old God temple awaits us on the Dragon Isles!
I think Azeroth (and other world souls like her) do have the potential to become Titans as we understand them (Arcane gods from the cosmic force of Order). But I think when they emerge they take on the traits of the most dominant cosmic force they were exposed to while incubating. This is how the Void would create "Dark Titans", this is why the Titans created the Halls of Infusion to inject order into Azeroth. Also even being based in Order, the Titans themselves seem capable of wielding (or becoming) any cosmic force. Eonar wields Life. Tyr (I know he's just a watcher, shush) wields the Light. Sargeras *became* Chaos, and made Argus wield Death. All this to say, I think what's going to eventually happen when Azeroth is "born" is that due to the Old Gods, the Titans, Sargeras' sword, the Jailer, possibly Elune and whatever Light Diety An'she might be linked to, and more importantly us mortals, she'll be the captain planet of the cosmic forces. A being that is all the cosmic forces of the universe at once. Maybe that's what the First Ones are and she'll be that, rather than a new Titan. Anyway, we should start worshipping the planet as a god now.
The dagger probably was lost in the chaos, spread around by explorers and influenced people and maybe since Iridikron (I think is his name) having such a deep connection to the earth will maybe become a super wicked Galakron and Deathwing. Might even consume his siblings and usher in the Void Lords and force the light to go eff this it is time to purge and kick off a big war on Azeroth. As far as we know, the pantheon is still recovering and Illidan found refuge somewhere and has a crap ton of info to tell us. The writers did say after legion if the “star of sargeras” ( that red white thing in the sky seen from legion areas) goes out then we are in for something big. Also Malf going away if anything will bring him back with more insight and super charge him some how. I wouldn’t be surprised if Illidan and Malfurion becoming huge characters for a future story and finally seeing eye to eye on some stuff.
Think nzoth sees azerite, heart of azeroth, cloak, black blade, and adjusts plans Think wrathion finds about the time tumble and decided to kill her in legion time, ala death(s) of chromie The blade disappears We never killed him, he never died, never defeated him Visions of N' Zoth was mere a fient
To me the most interesting whisper is the "Many eyes" one. I think it refers to the Not-Living and them and Dralad(Ysera and Alexstraza's brother) will be returning and be saved somehow. If true it will be a neat way to tie Galakrond's origin, Tyr's experiments, Ysera desire to save the Not-Living and find her brother in Dawn of the Aspects and her return in Dragonflight as a Death God. In this video you said you were going to research future plot points in Dragonflight. I also made a thread in WarcraftLore sub-reddit on the New Year containing all the plot points I could find, called "Plot Points to expect in Dragonflight Patches". I hope that helps with your research!
"You will follow him to the deep places, the dark waters will flow in his wake" Surely now we know this is referring to Iridikron with Galakronds essence, as the zones in the War Within are mostly set underground? And Galakrond drank shit water to end up as he did
Many eyes don't belong to one head. I think this part is referring to the dragons and the water to uplift them is the stuff the eggs are in. The him we follow into the deep will be Tyr 2.0 and he will just fail which reawakens an evil.
The only lore video that matters. SOOOO many people doing multiple uploads during the week that is literally just the exact same fucking video with 6 different titles. Good shit Nobbel, an actual deep dive.
It would be cool to see an exploration of Azeroth waking up, whether it be a titan or an old God or something entirely different. And, if that did happen, it would maybe have implications for the emerald dream.
i think azeroth titan spirit is on chaos and the old gods side but not corrupted by their energy as to not trigger any titan alarms, it is suppose to be growing constantly and learning by the other titan's designs and so it should be aware of what is happening around it and know what has happened thus far. So if it choose to remain pure until after it is born then it can use its im a good guy energy to "spread its roots" through the universe until it betrays everyone to chaos , the many eyes refers to it becoming corrupted and drinking as in eating the places she spread her roots earlier, and becoming a chaos god or something like that The him in deep places is wrathion, and im guessing he will try to save everyone again. But with the dark waters flow in his wake thing he may make things worse by releasing something evil free, maybe sargeras? (all a guess nothing is proven till the end)
I don't think they have omniscience but an elder/old god would have a considerable mental capacity to comprehend what is going on, and probably had an understanding of the 'visitors' from time.
3:50 for what it is worth I threw an eye of kil'rog in that pit hit the bottom pretty much same model as the raid in dragonsoul no mobs or anything down there :P that i noticed. The only thing that comes to mind with that seed your showing "this time will be different" I couldn't help but notice that void flower was gone in the campaign quest through the dream. Also have you done the ruby feast quests? A savory fish stands out among the rest. Wait wait wait, they are not going with mad scientist Tyr created galakrond and he escaped his lab?
I find it inconsistent that the emerald dream would be made by Azeroth before the old gods because, presumably, the cycle of life and death, the curse of flesh, is from the old gods. The "roots" could mean the origins of life, meaning the doubts and fears that the dragon isles have awakened with (from talking to some npcs). Madness is just thoughts, now we have brought those thoughts to the roots of civilization and titan order.
Popping in with an opinion-- "The void speaks half truths." The void lords/old gods have seen basically any/every possible sequence of events that could have played out. That makes them seem dangerous and omnipresent, sure, but it also gets to why they seem to always lose. Yes, they could have foreseen what is happening at this exact moment, but they've also seen infinity-kajillion permutations of the sequence of events. They think they're playing along the variation where they win. They aren't.
Personally i see it like this, nzoth can see all times, all outcomes, all possibilities.... When we popped out infront of it by accident, nzoth recognised us from its own downfall then started plotting Azeroths downfall and the corruption of deathwing...
By the full whispers and events after the vault, I'm assuming N'Zoth means the three Incarnates "going deeper" and us following them. The drinking deep def would be more of the tainted water, which I think the primalists will drink and mutate. Or possibly the blood of Galakrond itself the drink in to "be like the stongest of their kind".
Azeroth that communicated with Magni is maybe an old god, would make sense then that Magni is described as a pawn. It would also make sense that Sargeras so desperately wanted to defeat Azeroth, as we've learned during Legion that Sargeras feared the Void much more than the Light or anything else. Perhaps Azeroth is Y'shaarj. He was supposed to be the strongest of the old gods, but we haven't seen much of him, only his influence in Pandaria. Perhaps this is what is "below and will rise again".
y'shaarj was the old god that aman'thul ripped out creating the well of eternity though. i dont think there is that much of him to see unless he is now on the moon.
NZoth has referred to eyes being opened in the past as people becoming corrupted by void. I think he's talking about the infinite dragonflight as the "eyes being opened again. Drink and be uplifted." Maybe Nozdormu and his flight drinking the corrupted water? The "again" part might be referring to their protodragon forms prior to titan influence.
Maybe instead of us, he is talking to Chromie/Eternus? I know there are some theories that Chromie is Eternus, and maybe "What you were" was to Eternus, and "What you will yet be" is directed to Chromie?
i had a theory that Deathwing comes back, but heavily mutated to the point, that his form can't take a normal shape, so he uses galakrond's bones as a means to keep a dragon form.
Imagine that by travelling to that time with someone who had the gift and probably still has a tiny bit of the gift left, Nzoth made contact with his future self and got infos about our actions. Since this is a mandatory story questline we will always go there.
I think the implication is the Azeroth is a Cosmic Spirit of a First One inserted into the body of a titan. One of the whispers goes like "She is not the last, but the first."
N'zoth knew of us because we're going to go back in time in a future expansion to an even earlier time to do end-expansion stuff (similar to argus) that n'zoth will witness. Just my theory.
In story writing, there are just a few tricks that you can use to infer some sort of connection in future events, even though those future events haven't even been invented yet in any way.
Who would have thought going back in time to meet a monster that can read minds being able to read all the things you experienced in the future to then utilize that infomation was a bad idea.
From my understanding, the Order magic is infused into the waters inside the Halls of Infusion, but the waters come from another source (I think there was a concept image about the wellspring and its way to the Halls). And that source must still be poluted, so I have a theory that connects the "With many eyes..." whisper with the "You will follow him..." one. Iridikron will dig its way to the depths of the earth through the original wellspring, thus causing two important effects: One, it deplets the water source of the Halls, making them unfunctional, and two, it drains the "dark waters" to his domain, so they will "follow in his wake". Who will drink them? Most likely the Primalists, but the phrase seems to be aimed to the dragons, so maybe one of them who goes rogue?
I'm firmly on the side of "Azeroth is not actually a Titan", at least as we currently understand Titans. All evidence for this comes from Titanic sources, but we've already seen signs that World Souls need not be inherently Titanic. We've seen evidence that they can be made to be embodiments of Shadow (through Old Gods), Disorder (both in Sargeras' attempts on Argus and his designs for Azeroth), and Death (through the work of the Nathrezim to subvert the conversion of Argus). Given that we know that World Souls can be converted to a given power with sufficient Magical input, it makes perfect sense to assume that the Titans did the same. Since we live in a post-ordering world, it's simply impossible to know how things were before the Titans came. Azeroth herself may not even know her original nature, having been subject to Titanic Ordering for most of her lifespan. I don't know if Azeroth is a First One, but I think it's very likely that World Souls are more malleable than the Titans' influence has led us to believe.
A lot of things point toward Azeroth being a Void Lord. The Old Gods describe it as "our song." We were always told that if the Old Gods were not dealt with that it would awaken a "dark titan"... everyone always assumed that would be due to the corruption from the Old Gods, but what if it isn't? What if that is what Azeroth IS and it is simply waking that up? Also, the name comes from "Azathoth" the "blind idiot god" who is the "the ruler of the Outer Gods, and may be seen as a symbol for primordial chaos." Gee... outer gods like the Old Gods that our lore says came from somewhere outside? Primordial chaos like the primal elemental forces seen on the planet? From Lovecraft: "[O]utside the ordered universe [is] that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity-the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes." Even more telling? Azathoth is described as a CREATOR and that everything that exists is simply his DREAM (and remember that the Old Gods themselves do not die but only sleep).... so like Azeroth, Azathoth is asleep as well: "Out in the mindless void the daemon bore me Past the bright clusters of dimensioned space, Till neither time nor matter stretched before me, But only Chaos, without form or place. Here the vast Lord of All in darkness muttered Things he had dreamed but could not understand, While near him shapeless bat-things flopped and fluttered In idiot vortices that ray-streams fanned. They danced insanely to the high, thin whining Of a cracked flute clutched in a monstrous paw, Whence flow the aimless waves whose chance combining Gives each frail cosmos its eternal law. "I am His Messenger," the daemon said, As in contempt he struck his Master’s head." Another work alludes to Azathoth being the center of the cosmos... and now we know the Maelstrom IS at the center of everything in WoW, and exists in all dimensions and all periods of time. Azathoth "rules all time and space from a curiously environed black throne at the centre of Chaos." Sounds eerily familiar, and considering that in the Lovecraft universe it waking up means the end of everything one would wonder what will happen in WoW... at the very least we know the Emerald Dream IS a direct creation through Azeroth's dreams. In Lovecraft lore, Azathoth is the mother of practically all the other beings described; mirroring the stories in WoW like the Taurens who are considered her "children." Even more interesting, tying into the idea of "our song" is the constant mention of flutes playing the throne of Azathoth. One of the direct influences for Azathoth was Lord Dunsany's Mana-Yood-Sushai, from The Gods of Pegana. A god that sleeps eternally, lulled by the music of a lesser deity who must drum forever, "for if he cease for an instant then MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI will start awake, and there will be worlds nor gods no more." This idea of music to keep an oblivious creator god asleep is the common thread between all of this. The work of Gary Myers expands on the mythos to talk about a "Dreamland" and the "waking world" which were both created by Azathoth. A few quotes: "[T]he allegorical figure of Azathoth, the primal monster who had given birth to the stars at the beginning of time, and who, according to an obscure tradition, would devour them at its end." "[P]resently the benign Elder Ones would be deposed by infinity’s Other Gods, who would drag the world down a black spiral vortex to the central void where the demon sultan Azathoth gnaws hungrily in the dark...." Now the "Elder Ones" (aka Old Gods) WERE deposed by other gods... the Titans. A spiral vortex to the central void sounds eerily familiar to the maelstrom which is now cannon as the absolute center of EVERYTHING and is found in every realm and throughout time.
Loved the video and tinkering with possibilities. We might end up in same place as it is in Diablo universe - both angels and demons are morally gray (both good and bad, but following their agenda, not human's or this world's agenda, which makes humans suffer and have almost no choice). I would love if in the end the Void/old gods would actually be a good, and titans/light be morally bad, which will make them our enemies at the end of Warcraft lore. But "both are are morally gray or bad" are way more possible.
![The Story of Ny'alotha, The Waking City [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HC_jrvE5AeE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Ny'alotha, The Waking City [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of: Dawn of the Infinite - THE END OF MUROZOND ALREADY?! [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mA2I3tECc-4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Aftermath of the Shadowlands [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nJzCMXDjmco/mqdefault.jpg)
![[DOKKAN BATTLE] Worldwide Campaign Announcement Video Part 2!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JpT5Voak6WA/mqdefault.jpg)
I could listen to N'zoth's voice forever
Just give into the Void and that may yet be a possibility 😉
I simp for his voice without shame
Then you will love Reinhardt from Overwatch.
A deep, bass voice with reverb whispering lore hints to me... is DEFINITELY what I'm looking for in a man
@@z3yjIn when he voices calus in destiny he sounds more like nzoth tho
when he does reinhardt then he sounds like reinhardt
The theory that Nzoth read our minds when we jumped timelines to save Chromie, and have been preparing for us ever since, when put into perspective, make so much sense to me.
That was my first thought when I went though this part. suffice to say I was slightly spooked/worried.
Bro... I never even fucking thought about that.
I'm still convinced we never defeated N'zoth. He duped everyone in 8.3, a sectioned off part of Ny'alotha, a farce of a fight, just like the wrathion fight at the start of Nya'lotha.
Even worse, we are still carrying a parasite with us...
@@MeakisTV we did fight him in "*Visions* of N'Zoth"...
we fought "vision of N'Zoth", which means that entire fight was a fake dream we had about defeating him. Maybe there will be a raid tier in DF about fighting N'Zoth, the real one since hes trying to corrupt everyone who are our allies like the dragon flights. They have done it in the past with Deathwing.
N'zoth needs to come back he was hyped for nearly a decade and killed way too early He was the villain we should have had not The Failer err Jailer
They could've replaced the Shadowlands with the voidlands 1:1, the jailer with nzoth. It would've been way better
He never left, he knows he will be freed again and again untill they finish the job
Shadowlands didn't happen, that was just a Nightmare from N'zoth.
@@Elchuyboricuaand torghast was the worst thing he could think of the punish us
I want C'thun. That giant ass eye always creeped me out back in the day.
Il’gynoth said: “5 lanterns now darkened, the flame they seek will light the masters way”. Could the darkened lanterns be the dragon aspects who are trying to get back their powers?
I think it has to do with the sylvanas book. They go through a whole thing about 5 signals and whatnot
Whos the master?
The master of the old gods?
Or Deathwing children
I thought the 5 lanters were the pillars of creation?
With all the "drowning in a circle of stars" thing.
Tbh with all that gor changed your theory is pretty good ngl
Yes they were the Oathstones the key for the Aspects to regain their powers.
The Black Empire past timeline was cool and all but nothing tops Azmerloth. I need to see Azmerloth pop up again.
I've been wanting to play a Murlock since burning crusade! Bring on our wet rulers!
Azmerloth next expansion confirmed
People don't talk about it that's it's on a criminal level. I laughed my ass off seeing a murloc Deathwing.
@@m1bl4n it's better if people don't talk about it so people actually get surprised when they do it
I want to see what the actual murlocs of that world look like
As someone who still has the Gift of N'Zoth, I have waited for this!
To be honest, I want to speculate but I simply can't. Mainly because i've come to the conclusion Blizzard keeps these whispers vague as possible so nothing can box them in.
It's why I personally don't give two shits about Old God whispers.
I've been playing WoW since Vanilla, 99% percent of Old God whispers don't foreshadow or mean jack shit. Nothing ever fucking happens with them.
Or they, you know, plan things expansions ahead of time...like they've stated for over a decade.
@@Rawnblade13 Dead wrong, and only someone who doesn't know the whispers nor the lore would say that. All their whsuoers foreshadow events. Turalyon claimed Anduin's throne. That was one of the whispers. I could list more, but I don't need to. My point has been validated.
@@monkeysk8er33 Dead wrong? Please. I got a long list of Old God whispers going back to Wrath of the Lich King that never went anywhere or lead to anything.
You reveal your own ignorance of the whispers if you think they all foreshadow things, most of them don't. Half of them are just references, either to Lovecraft itself or other properties.
The other half is just vague crap that can fit just about anything with only a tiny portion that get specific.
And only a few of those actually lead to anything, and it's almost always far more underwhelming and dull than anything players speculated them to be.
@@Rawnblade13 Keep thinking that as more and more come true, foolish mortal.
I've had trouble getting excited about WoW lore considering how prone it is to retcon or buried in books most players will never read....but I just can't stay away from your channel, you do such a great job explaining things, even if they're almost certain to change at the whim of the devs. Thanks for all your work Nobbel
I feel like Galakrond was probably the first dragon they attempted to turn to an aspect which is why Odin was against it and along the way he became the aspect of decay. Which is why we never really saw that magic till recently with the Gnolls and explains why he can raise the dragons to unliving state. With Galakrond's death the titans locked away and hid all records of Decay magic as well since it was unpredictable.
Intriguing, but the Yogg influences are clear as day, i dont think Tyr & the Keepers would have used any death magic, and yoggy boy refers to himself as a god of death (old lore pre cosmic rework) so we’ll have to wait and see
@@cxfxcdude The titans probably dabbled in it. Hence the creation of G'huun. Decay is also the closest of the elements to death on the cosmic map.
The Yogg thing might just be influence or Yogg corrupted all of Northrend maybe a shrine of Decay or the entrance to that school of magics domain was in Northrend. Andrassil / Vordrassil might also lead into it since it was destroyed and corrupted by Yogg and lead to the Voids entrance to the Emerald Dream/Nightmare and the Nightmare is just like a Decayed version of the dream. Could also make sense as to why Malfurion was scared in the Rift of Uhm maybe that's where the sleeping Decay lord is and Decay magic would be the polar opposite of his druid magic.
@@cxfxcdude I don't know if it was retconned yet, but the Titans were supposed to be terrified of Shadowlands and if so, they should be scared of Death as a cosmological force as well. Decay would be too close to it for their own comfort - while Titans may do questionable shit at times, I feel it would be a step too far for them.
I doubt the Titans were playing with Decay, but rather sought a way to extinguish it as quickly as possible (Uldir and accidental creation of G'huun). Decay seems to have VERY strong connections to the Old Gods (Yoggy being responsible for Galakrond's madness, the creation of Emerald Nightmare and calling himself a god of death SHOULD indicate his close connection to Decay).
Decay feels like Old God's version of Death magic, but maybe it's just my gut feeling
@@hegvul Most of the times when someone who knows even a little about WoW's lore says its their gut feeling, they are right. Coming from an over 10 years old WoW vet.
Could we say the drust is like decay magic?
I knew this stuff was gonna come back up later. There’s just no way it wouldn’t, especially because the twilight dragonflight was never eradicated
Goriona and the Failed Experiment are still out there!
I'm so glad they didn't let the old gods die. Letting them behind was what must be considered a bad move
Don't forget the netherwing flight. They still exist and I doubt they would aligne with the aspects.
@@komischerzitronengolem5998 the thing is with old gods; they can never die according to lore
@@ashendant1317 k
I've said it since BfA, I don't think we ever beat N'Zoth. The raid we went to was Visions of N'Zoth, just like the minor visions which were glimpses of possible futures, the raid was a glimpse of a future he showed us where we won. I think it was just us entering his visions again on a larger scale, to make us believe we won. While the real N'Zoth sat back and waited.
Nah, N'zoth core body is smoked. He might've survived by transferring part of his consciousness to the Blade of the Black Empire.
Or more likely, he did die but after Blizzard saw the backlash to how grossly underwhelming N'zoth was, have decided to retcon that.
@@ashendant1317 There is a large part of N'Zoth still on the surface of Azeroth that is mostly untouched, it is right below the Shrine of the Storms and is where the second part of the Crucible of Storms raid takes place. It is called the Tendril of Corruption. So it is very possible for him to come back since not all of him was destroyed.... if he in fact actually was to begin with.
I have a theory that Xal'atath will resurrect him, and part of that plan might involve the Tendril of Corruption.
@Josh Cal You're just saying that because like most people, they hated Shadowlands so much, they'd rather have it retconned by the whole thing being a dream. I didn't like shadowlands, but holy hell...let it go.
@@scorpinok3006 Actually, us defeating N'Zoth either being a vision so he can see how we would do it, it being a part of his plan lines up with how he plans things out. It wouldn't be the first time he turned a loss into a win so to speak.
The roots burying deeper quote could be talking about the remnant of the void. The void flower left in the emerald dream. Shadow priests could also interact with it I believe.
Yeah, I think the tree being planted is gonna be an old god void tree.
The remnant was purged away, when you go back to the dream to get the Green Flight in BFA (first time we see Myrthra) to power up the Heart of Azeroth, you can follow Ysera’s spirit towards the remnant and tear out its heart (a wilting flower in a nest of tentacles/roots on the surface not taking root properly, it seemed to be struggling to find purchase) leaving a withered husk implied to be dead.
@@cxfxcdude yep, thats right, in the last part of the dragonflight questline we move inside of emerald dream, i've checked if void remnant is still there, not even roots, just a chest, with no void related items
Its about the new world tree that Fyrakk wants.
I don't think it's an accident that "Azeroth" sounds so much like "Azathoth." Azathoth, Lovecraft's planet-sized god hovering at the center of the universe...
Not be rude, but it probably is, name predates Old Gods in the lore by a lot - and it was original the name of the nation of Stormwind
^This. I made a post with all the relevant quotes from Lovecraft where I lay out all the similarities if anyone is interested. =)
.@@lukegrimish1611 Even with that in mind, the vast, vast majority of Warcraft lore - especially the parts that at least has some coherency - are blatantly stolen and/or adapted from other works. They rarely try to hide it.
And this is not a knock on Blizzard either. Originality is a white lie anyway, and I enjoy WoW lore for the most part =)
It's merely coincidence, at most someone liked the name and use something similar but never with that intent.
I don't remember if Azeroth is used on Warcraft 1, but it was on Warcraft 2, even on it's cinematic, where the starting line is "The once might army of Azeroth lie in the blackning and burning remains of Stormwind Keep", which seems to indicate that Azeroth was not the world but merely the country of Stormwind.
The lore has been evolving constantly, which is why there's so many issues with canon.
The blind idiot god.
"With many eyes, they will see again. They will drink and be uplifted" must be those Nerubians
I've been of the opinion since I heard the whispers during the Black Empire part of that quest chain that what we're seeing is a pretty elegant explanation of why N'zoth is so interested in the player character during BfA. He didn't see the future. He remembered us.
A pair of dragons - beings descended from the very elementals the Black Empire was trying to subjugate - fell into the middle of a battlefield of what may well have been the climatic battle of the Old Gods' campaign against the Elemental Lords. And soon after enters a new type of creature: the player character. A creature likely touched by multiple cosmic forces - including (assuming the character did the quest to gain N'zoth's gift and/or fought him in the raid) by N'zoth's own hand, er, tentacle - who was able to fight or sneak their way through this battlefield and escape along side these time-traveling lizards.
N'zoth is smart. He's a schemer. And he's patient. He may even be able to scan the player character's minds to catch some glimpses of the future they came from. But even if not, he now has a point of reference going forward. He has the player character to act as a beacon as he looks into the possible futures and find the one(s) with the our character in it and have a fair idea of what's coming and how to take advantage of it.
And when our characters show up in front of him during BfA, he uses his power to complete another circle. He touches our character with his power so that when they one day end up back in the past, the loop can be completed.
"I know you. What you were." He knows we were Azem... oh, wait, wrong franchise. ;)
We placed a void seed in the dream Nobbel. He's literally reminding us we let them in.
There were rumors around BfA that we never actually won against N'zoth. Sure, we went to the Black Empire and 'Care Bear stared' him to death, but that was his plan all along, to let us in... so that he could trap us in a never-ending "dream" where we THINK we won and all the events after that battle never took place.
Obviously, with Dragonflight, that can't be the case, but some strong points of interest include: You can still gather Azerite and power up your gear to this day. Said gear AND the Heart of Azeroth were not nerfed for Shadowlands (Blizz has never let a fully powered Legendary/heirloom expansion item continue on with no nerfs). You can still "farm" the mission table with full rewards; all other mission tables have been nerfed to reduce the amount of gold and special items you get. We never did anything with Sargeras' sword in Silithus.
N'zoth is known to not be the most powerful, but he is the most cunning and deceitful of them all. I read somewhere he could even trick other Old Gods into doing his bidding (don't quote me on that, though).
It's interesting to think that in Shadowlands, when you do a questline with Alexandros, you are told that "the Light and the Void mean nothing here" and yet the Light is present in Revendreth, along with the Narru shard which Denathrius wanted and the Void has made attempts to invade the Shadowlands. Not quite the "nothing" they make it out to be if it's a real threat of takeover.
I guess you could just chalk it up to terrible story writing (let's face it, Blizz is the worst at telling a coherent story).
The thing with n'zth tricking other old gods intodoing his bidding is definitely wrong/has never been said in the lore. If you read it somewhere, its likely the person was writing his own headcanon. We know N'zoth was the weakest, and that he had a penchant for turning defeat into victory. If he was really the smartest, we also dont really know, that as well has been ben explicitely stated.
N’Zoth? We still haven’t woken up from Yogg-Saron’s illusion yet
@Paul Biello Yeah... blizz story-telling at its finest.
10:18 Nobbel, I'm like 99% sure N'Zoth is referencing the sapling at the end of the Emerald Nightmare Raid.
But that flower is gone after N’zoth. If you fo to the cave during the green flight quest you ll see
No he speaks of the World tree that that fool Tyrande has planted.......You know the one with the souls within it. Within the Emerald Dream.......
Man, we were just having a massive conversation about this in our guild discord earlier today! Afterwards, I watched a bunch of old god lore videos to catch up...and now, as fate has aligned, Nobbel makes a video on this very thing!
My personal take, we fucked up. Time travel ALWAYS leaves open a paradox of some kind. N'Zoth knows not only who we are now, but what the future possibly holds not only for him, but also the rest of the old gods that we have fought and presumably killed. I'm thinking that N'Zoth has read our minds and there is going to be some retconning bullshit that the old gods are in fact not actually dead, because with us having travelled back in time, we gave them knowledge of how to avoid it. With there being a few hints in the DragonFlight expansion, including the literal eyes and tentacles of N'Zoth being hidden around the continent...this 100% fits together and makes almost perfect sense.
I'm not sure what other stuff could possibly happen or maybe what we've missed...but I think in the future of the game, i'd like to see the old gods try to reestablish the Black Empire. Maybe even see the return of the elemental lords as well.
I think you're right on this. Also i think the only reason they went out of their way to include the Azmerloth part was to show that there's consequences for messing with the timeline. We killed some creatures there and wouldn't that have rippling effects on our current timeline?
As far as I remember most of our "fan theories" were always annihilated by Blizzard, because there was no more surprise and plot-twists, since it has been already guessed (even if the theory was top notch story). And here we are again, if Blizzard is going to actually allow this fan theory to fullfil - N'zoth reading our mind and being able to see what we have done throu all these years, so he could prepare himself - It is going to be mindblowing as hell
I think the further conflict of the expansion will involve the element of Decay, which has already been hinted at in Azure Span. It's said in the Chronicle that Azeroth's elements are so chaotic because Azeroth's World-Soul consumed most of the planet's Spirit, which is a balancing element which is in opposition to Decay.
See “It was all N’zoths plan” is INFINITELY more practical and engaging than the fucking Jailer. I remember seeing somewhere, someone saying that narratively Shadowlands could have been salvaged if the plot twist was that at the end of BFA we had actually LOST and we were stuck in a vision of N’zoth then broke free with plot armor.
N'Zoth could see a thousand futures, and he can see the one in which he is victorious. Us appearing in the past confirmed to him which timeline was playing out and thus set in motion his plans for thousands of years to come, up until his death. Everything happened as he had planned, all because he saw us in the past.
I like the theory that Azeroth isn't a titan world soul but rather something of a primal elemental soul. Something that is a connection between the elements, which could be connected to the voice about her waking up the others. If the primal elemental would be the glue keeping the rest of the elemental souls together, there would make sense for other elemental souls to be out there (perhaps one soul for each type of element?).
After all, who knows? Maybe all archetypes of Order, Disorder, Elemental, Light, Dark, etc have their own types of world souls and are trying to "corrupt" or convert other world souls to do their own bidding.
After all, the whole universe is about push and pull, the forces going against each other. It's also fun how so many stories converge towards Azeroth, almost as if it's a giant star or black hole, drawing everything closer towards it.
As it seems the eggs are in the corrupted water, perhaps this answers how the Infinite Dragons comes to be. The eggs will drink the water much like a plant does I assume. N'zoth probably gets the idea when we go back in time. Us going back in time has already happened for him, but for us it was yet to come. So his death was a strategic move in order to create the Infinites.
I think the infinites will be a thing whenever we connect with the “Heretics” on Avaloren. They seem like a great place to put “the great secret/truth” that breaks Nozzy’s faith in the titans
The Infinite Drgaonflight is the bronze dragonflight after Nozdormu gets corrupted by time.
I've been loving listening to your stories on Spotify when I do chores or going to bed. Fingers crossed for more uploads there soon!
While at this point in time I have no thoughts on the new whispers themselves, hearing them got me to look back at Il'gynoth's whispers.
Some of them are obvious and have been touched upon before, but given that we are quite the few expansions after Legion now I believe it's prudent to look back to them. There are three whispers I'd like to talk about first since I believe they may directly refer to the events of Dragonflight
'From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength.' - I believe this quote directly refers to Iridkiron, with what we know about him now after the raid and all the datamined information (As well as the new N'zoth whispers), it seems more than likely that he is indeed corrupted by the Old Gods and will be trying to, willingly or otherwise, bring them back.
'Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.' - I remember for a while that people (Me included) thought this quote was referencing Pillars of Creation. Now, however, I believe that it may refer to the Oathstones and that, by bringing them back online, we've done something that will allow the Old Gods to come back.
'At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.' - This one is far more speculative on my part than the previous two, but I believe that they may refer to either Ysera or Alexstrasza.
Now, to look at the other set of Il'gynoth whispers from BfA and what they may imply.
'Five lanterns now darkened. The flames they seek will light the Masters' way.' - This one is directly connected to the other Il'gynoth whisper. The Oathstones are silenced (or were) and the flames they seek have found them and reignited them.
'The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green.' - This one is interesting. It is either referencing both Ysera or Alexstrasza or just the former. While its true that Alexstrasza is the life binder, the Emerald Dream is also very much related to life and healing, so it could be strictly talking about Ysera.
Finally, I'd like to look at some things from the Puzzle-Box of Yogg-Saron, these ones may not directly refer to the future of Dragonflight, but some of them are curious to look back on.
'Even death may die.' - If we go with the story that the Jailer has been planned all this time and whatnot, this quote could reference his ultimate defeat.
'Beneath the shadow of the darkened spire, there is no light, no mercy, only void, and the chaos within.' - With this one, I am somewhat leaning towards Tyrhold being referenced here.
That is all I have thought of for now, as always great video Nobbel!
N'zoth can see inside our head. We defeated him and then went back in time and met him. He can see our memory of how we defeated him and now he has thousands of years to think about how to respond to that. Contingencies? Fall back plans? Deceptions?
i think the water one hints at Wrathion honestly, and the dream one is of azeroth's soul, harbering void energy from all 4 old gods but not necessarily in a damaged way, more like a hybrid of order and chaos and awakened to the truth, maybe she knows something
I just hope there actually is a plan for this and that blizz don't just randomly come back to this 5 years from now to retcon in an answer that barely fits like they do for their other recent lore.
Writing is pretty much ALWAYS a retcon as long as you not just repeat old things. You write something new, that wasn't talked about before in what you wrote, what can always be only a glimps of the world you created.
Also real life is full of retcons = you learn something that has always been that way, YOU or even all humankind just didn't know it.
Look at sciencs. A long row of retcons. "Oops, we thought it is like that, but it never was, hu."
You people treat the word retcon like it is the sign of lazy writing or whatever. It's not.
Make up stuff as you please with no link to anything or just completely contradicting or ignoring other things, that would be lazy. Modern writing is full of that, but not really the WoW storyl.
Blizzard once held the standard for gaming lore and story telling. Feels like they do now is poop the corporate bed :( I hope they get their act together
@@miriamweller812 Could you hypothesize, that everything, I mean EVERYTHING, could be just an simulation? I dunno how many people have heard about the double slit wave particle duality theory. It basically theorisizes that when observing how atoms and particles, they behave differently when observed or not. Meaning, there could be a super computer that simulates all of this xd
Oos
Ñ
The fact Blizzard brought us back to that specific place where we fought N"Zoth is an obvious hint that N'Zoth did not die or that we did not fight him at all even. I think we have never fought any of the Old Gods.
Sageras stabbing Azerath 1 day of pain
Well of Eternity imploding: 10,000 years of impairment disfunction.
There is a reddit text mentioning that our time travel to Ny'alotha allowed to N'Zoth to survive the events of the Waking City.
There was a wowhead post about one guys theory yesterday then boom everyone is making a video about it and not crediting the person who made the post.
@@FunTimeWithSouls You do realize that this "theory" isn't anything new? There was alot of talk about it back in BFA.
Why was Razageth separated from her siblings at the start of Dragonflight?
I think the one about roots was actually about Teldrassil. Teldrassil's corruption hadn't happened yet from N'Zoth's perspective back then, of course, and even if it was eventually cleansed, it caused a LOT of damage.
I believe that, since we went back in time, being watched and whispered to by N'zoth. I agree with Nobbel. N'zoth peered into our minds and saw everything that happened from that point forward. I have a feeling that whenever we or the Aspects plant this new World Tree, as the branches grow taller, the roots grow deeper. Getting closer and closer to the influence/ corruption of the Old Gods. And with that quote by N'zoth "Deeper and deeper its roots will welcome our embrace." That should be proof enough. Sh*ts about to get real xD
N'zoth's whispers are so much more clearer now with War Within.
SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!
"You follow him to the deep places" could be referring to us following Anduin down to the Kingdom of the Nerubians after he gets kidnapped (again). Although I am not clear yet how the "Dark Waters" could tie into this.
"Her dreams sing beneath the surface" could be referring to Azeroth's Song that Alleria is hearing and Locustwalker has stated that his Worldsoul of Karesh song the same song before it fell prey to the void lord Dimensius.
Can't wait to see where this leads us. Its been a while since I have been this excited for wow lore.
Merithra said that her mother is different now, that she has touch of death on her. It might be the post-effect of this missile launched into her by Xavius. This might have had a print of corruption on it as well as Ysera now, so she could be the one who could corrupt seed perhaps :)?
The touch of Death they are talking is the Ardenweald magic(dark blue starry magic) all around her and in her breath.
Pretty sure she just said that because Ysera was literally dead and in a realm of death 5 minutes ago. xD
the new war within trailer really answered most of these. Love it.
N'Zoth when he returns with his puppets of Sargeras and the Jailer on each tentacle: "I pulled a sneaky on ya"
What i'm still confused about, in the crucible of storms raid, n'zoth had one particular whisper which basically foreshadowed shadowlands:" His crown will open the way."
Obiously referring to sylvanas breaking the helm of domination to open the way to the shadowlands. What i ask myself is, do the old gods somehow benefit from this ? Why would he even whisper that, just because he can ? Only thing actually is, that when, (yeah i know we want to forget that part about the story) zovaal took the life energy from azeroth through icc, which is basically made out of yogg sarons blood, zovaal maybe allowed yogg saron to actually enter the shadowlands, what influence that will have in the future, who knows. Just a thought.
I think it would be interesting to see what Primalists and the Incarnates would think if they learned that the elemental energy that they feel is the natural state of things came from there being a Titan World Soul within the planet, would they want to even purge themselves since they are also tainted by Order magic in a way?
Where's Go'el when you need him??? We need the OG bad ass orc Shaman pls, not some poser primalist dirtbags trying to be edgy.
Tyr made experiments in his basement infusing baby protodrakes with everything he could think of. He said it whit his own mouth "Hologram Tyr says: Infused with the element of water, this proto-dragon has lost its fire breathing capabilities and gained an equally lethal ability in its stead--the frozen possibilities of ice.
Hologram Tyr says: The fact that a proto-dragon's complete inversion of their elemental tendency is not only possible, but so thorough, generates an intriguing thought exercise.
Hologram Tyr says: Is there any element--or even energy--that, given appropriate conduit, vessel, and time, proto-dragons are unable to integrate?"I don't wanna see the faces of the Incarnates when they find out that they are nothing more than the first failed attempt for the dragon Aspects, and Tyr is their papa.🤣
@@amaliafilip2886 "BuT thE eLeMeNTs!!!11!11!!!!!"
OOOOH YES JUICEY WHISPER CONTENT, I LOVE THIS SHHIT
"With many eyes, they will see again. They will drink and be uplifted"
This fits perfectly as Nerubians are drinking the black blood which is the old god blood, and they got uplifted to the ascended
"Deeper, Deeper its root will reach and welcome our embrace"
I believe this has to do with the next patch, perhaps something with a new threat after the end of Nerub Ar cinematic. Xalatath seems to have something up her slevee. She did not care about Ansurek but I believe something might be up.
"Her Dreams sing beneath the surface. Our Dreams, Our song"
This is a referrence to the "Radiant Song" that has been ringing out across Azeroth, I think there is something more to this.
"You will follow him to the deep places, the dark waters will flow in his wake"
This I might relate to Iridikron. As you all know he allied with Xalatath. He did also mention that he "will be waiting" during the stale mate between Vyrannoth and Iridikron.
By Dark waters, I think this refers to the black blood in TWW.. I believe there is much more to Xalatath and his story line.
I believe there is more to this. But some of the lines are fullfilled.
I think the roots running deep are from the void flower planted by Valithria Dreamwalker in the Emerald Dream. It's the model for Ysera that shows us it's there, but there's a theory that it was an infiltration.
Dude, imagine an expansion where all of the old gods return and part of the black empire is back, growth everywhere etc. basically cataclysm treatment 2.0 but MUCH bigger scale. That would be sick, but very dark, perhaps too dark for an expansion theme.
No you have a great idea and there are a ton of us who feel the same... how I thought they should have handled it: In BFA spend more time on the war (which it needed) and the final tier is Azshara (so no N'zoth fight). This also allows MUCH more time to be spent on Azshara who deserved it. The final cinematic of the expansion is the chains breaking, and now for the first time ever, an Old God was FREE. The entire expansion ends on that huge cliffhanger, with everyone expecting it to be the very next expansion.
N'zoth was free; no one knows where he is, where he will strike, and when. Then the sky rips open and we have to divert our attention to the Shadowlands. They told us time works differently and there would be a time skip. When we get back, we are met with the armies of the Black Empire. Only Orgrimmar and Stormwind are left unconquered, with our backs completely against the wall. N'Zoth KNEW we were going to the Shadowlands and this was the perfect opportunity to strike.
The entire expansion (and the leveling experience) involves us taking back territory. Dungeons can be taking back major cities like Thunder Bluff and so on. Raids when we delve into the structures built to fight his monstrosities and weaken him, until the point we could reach him and face N'Zoth ourselves. The entire world is transformed much like the visions of N'zoth with his corruption even transforming the wildlife much like the fel did in outlands.
Well anyway that's my gay fan fic of how it should have happened. XD
@@naejimba Yeah, this idea is actually amazing, building up Nzoth for so many expansions and then he finally dies by a lazer beam. So fucking dirty, so fucking shit. Danuser needs to be fired. Maybe that Metzen is back in the team -- we have a chance of seeing nzoth again.
@@swampsect , yeah I'm hoping since they can't technically die that they play it as some 4D chess move on N'Zoth's part that leads to the old gods coming back. It's the best they can do to salvage it at this point, and we still have Xal'atath out there who cut a deal with N'Zoth for her freedom. There could be more to that deal than we know, and at this point we STILL don't know exactly what the hell Xal'atath IS.
@@naejimba Indeed, being a big Lovecraft fan, Old God themes are my favorite and I know for fact that Metzen is into it too, so yeah, there's definitely hope.
Deeper and deeper the roots will reach makes me thing about Each time we getting into this emerald dream zone the place where the void thing was seems to grow .
dawn of the aspects have a lot to tell about Galakrond but they never mention old gods once out of the 5 books, Tyr just assisted in rallying the dragons and the final battle against Galakrond. The mutations were a result of Galakrond committing the sin for consuming other proto dragons which it says resulted in muted growths, eyes, limbs and wings blindly seeing and aimlessly flapping and clawing. As far as we know other proto dragons did not repeat this. It'd make sense Yogg-saron has something to do with this but nothing that i could tell in that story had anything to do with them. Also Tyr's silver hand was bitten off by Galakrond i believe.
Roots are growing deeper? What about that void flower in the emerald dream, after we defeat Xavius in The Emerald Nightmare?
The Void Flower was cleansed during BFA using the Heart of Azeroth. During Ysera's quest in DF you can check the place and see it former spot overgrown with natural-looking flowers
@@ashendant1317 Ah, I didn't know. That's too bad, I was hoping for a void infected emerald dream expansion 🤣
Right after Malfurion said "what is it my love" the video got cut off by a hello fresh add that started off just saying "dinner" and I got a little spooked
It's probably nothing but Nerzhul said this before Arthas became the Lich King: "Return the blade. Complete the circle. Release me from this prison"
"Complete the circle" Hearing that kind of makes me think that maybe there's something linking those two things, only because that's a very specific thing to say.
Ilgynoth was a tree when he existed in the Emerald Nightmare - and at the end of that raid, was also the void flower that Ysera’s echo/afterimage was seen walking towards and disappearing into. These two things, connected through the Emerald Nightmare, sandwhich our fight with Xavius in the RIFT OF ALN, which is said to have an ethereal sort of connection to both the void and the emerald dream
We know that infinite dragonflight is actually an old-god manipulated Nozdormu thing right? So apart from galakrond, all the mentioned dragons might be the Murozond.
Also since Nzoth actually acting like he knew that we were going to defeat him in a time line, he might have made the plan of corrupting the Nozdormu into Murozond to control the time line that is going to happen, in which he is going to be victorious.
Nzoth: Our Dreams, Our Song
Ilgynoth: Our Earth, Our Strength
I’m confident these are connected in some way. Maybe it’s just Shadow Priest madness or maybe I’m onto something
I would have initially guessed Ysera/Merithra in the case of 'dreams' (oh well) but yeah I’m very much willing to bet the one we follow into the deep will be Iridikron and he’ll somehow find a source of that corrupted waters that the Keepers missed
As a tangent I believe Azeroth will be different than any other Titan. She been exposed to vast amounts of Void Energy (Old Gods), Arcane Energy (Titans), Fel Energy (Sargaras), Necrotic Energy (Zovaal), & Life Energy (Wild Gods/Elemental Lords?) and thus might have incorporated all of these into herself thus becoming something new...something greater or something worse (only thing I don’t know about is the Light)
@@taytaystark7588maybe Turalyon will do something about that…hopefully not
@@taytaystark7588 - Technically all life in the universe, including unborn Titans and native elementals, were made from specks of Light according to the Chronicle.
If N’Zoth really got caught off guard by Wrathion, a major player on Azeroth, stabbing him with the one thing that could have sealed him AKA the thing he should have been looking out for the most, that would be the most pathetic thing.
I assume that N’Zoth confronting the players directly and making himself the big bad was a red herring. He probably did whatever preparation the void lords need to enter the mortal plane and then took the fall so that nobody looks further into it and finds that out.
That’s the only way the end of BFA makes sense in my eyes. Then again, there is nothing stopping the bronze dragon flight from seeing the future and inform us that we’ve been duped. And then we need to ask questions about the messiness of who has the upper hand when it comes to seeing the future, old gods or bronzy bois. Ugh…
Awesome video
Realized during it
“Your friends will abandon you”
Well it looks like the Titan Pantheon bailed had after hearing the world soul of Azeroth was corrupted
Nah, he was talking about all our IRL friends that quit because of how shit SL was. Blizzard loves foreshadowing.
@@meta3323 lmao!! Trueee. Dragonflight been good it brought back like half my old wow friends. Thanks for the funny comment and laugh hahaha!
Can we let the bad guys win this time? Just once? As long as it's not blowing up the planet cause I kinda like it, just once.
Technically they did at the end of legion and that sadly started BFA
How do you imagine that working? We can at worst have set backs.
What would be interesting is if we were thrown by ourselves off to a different time or a hidden continent or another world that is isolated until the final parts of the expansion.
That would make everything feel fresh again. By ourselves, meeting new characters and maybe making a life for ourselves there aka housing.
That would be the reset i think you'd like.
Otherwise it's not like they are gonna scrap the world and characters they established for decades. They are money.
@@NemXX2 Or have them go to a different continent or world being invaded by the void. They lose in that expansion, forcing the ones living in the dying world migrate to Azeroth.
They can't pull it off, you'll always expect cliché stories from them and heroes always winning...
No
Those of us who embraced the Gift of N'Zoth, our eyes shall open once more. All shall see! I'm still not convinced there was only one N'zoth in BFA, I believe that the vision of Ny'alotha was another N'zoth that exists within the past, present, and future. Il'gynoth's roots ran deep into the Emerald Nightmare. I called it back before we step foot in Korthia, an Old God temple awaits us on the Dragon Isles!
I think Azeroth (and other world souls like her) do have the potential to become Titans as we understand them (Arcane gods from the cosmic force of Order). But I think when they emerge they take on the traits of the most dominant cosmic force they were exposed to while incubating. This is how the Void would create "Dark Titans", this is why the Titans created the Halls of Infusion to inject order into Azeroth.
Also even being based in Order, the Titans themselves seem capable of wielding (or becoming) any cosmic force. Eonar wields Life. Tyr (I know he's just a watcher, shush) wields the Light. Sargeras *became* Chaos, and made Argus wield Death.
All this to say, I think what's going to eventually happen when Azeroth is "born" is that due to the Old Gods, the Titans, Sargeras' sword, the Jailer, possibly Elune and whatever Light Diety An'she might be linked to, and more importantly us mortals, she'll be the captain planet of the cosmic forces. A being that is all the cosmic forces of the universe at once. Maybe that's what the First Ones are and she'll be that, rather than a new Titan.
Anyway, we should start worshipping the planet as a god now.
best comment
The dagger probably was lost in the chaos, spread around by explorers and influenced people and maybe since Iridikron (I think is his name) having such a deep connection to the earth will maybe become a super wicked Galakron and Deathwing. Might even consume his siblings and usher in the Void Lords and force the light to go eff this it is time to purge and kick off a big war on Azeroth. As far as we know, the pantheon is still recovering and Illidan found refuge somewhere and has a crap ton of info to tell us. The writers did say after legion if the “star of sargeras” ( that red white thing in the sky seen from legion areas) goes out then we are in for something big.
Also Malf going away if anything will bring him back with more insight and super charge him some how. I wouldn’t be surprised if Illidan and Malfurion becoming huge characters for a future story and finally seeing eye to eye on some stuff.
Yeah, once Illidan is done fight scuffeling with Sargeras and Sargeras "dies" of exhaustion, the Void Lords will come. That's my guess.
I think they are setting up for a reboot of the game and branding it as an alternative reality.
Think nzoth sees azerite, heart of azeroth, cloak, black blade, and adjusts plans
Think wrathion finds about the time tumble and decided to kill her in legion time, ala death(s) of chromie
The blade disappears
We never killed him, he never died, never defeated him
Visions of N' Zoth was mere a fient
To me the most interesting whisper is the "Many eyes" one. I think it refers to the Not-Living and them and Dralad(Ysera and Alexstraza's brother) will be returning and be saved somehow. If true it will be a neat way to tie Galakrond's origin, Tyr's experiments, Ysera desire to save the Not-Living and find her brother in Dawn of the Aspects and her return in Dragonflight as a Death God.
In this video you said you were going to research future plot points in Dragonflight. I also made a thread in WarcraftLore sub-reddit on the New Year containing all the plot points I could find, called "Plot Points to expect in Dragonflight Patches". I hope that helps with your research!
"You will follow him to the deep places, the dark waters will flow in his wake" Surely now we know this is referring to Iridikron with Galakronds essence, as the zones in the War Within are mostly set underground? And Galakrond drank shit water to end up as he did
Aaaah I wanna watch the video but I don't wanna get spoiled! I'll be coming back, just you wait! 😂
The whispers make a lot more sense with the new reveals, might be worth making an updated version with more speculation :D
Many eyes don't belong to one head. I think this part is referring to the dragons and the water to uplift them is the stuff the eggs are in. The him we follow into the deep will be Tyr 2.0 and he will just fail which reawakens an evil.
0:21 Oh... Guess I'll come back once I get my renown up. ^^
The only lore video that matters. SOOOO many people doing multiple uploads during the week that is literally just the exact same fucking video with 6 different titles. Good shit Nobbel, an actual deep dive.
It would be cool to see an exploration of Azeroth waking up, whether it be a titan or an old God or something entirely different. And, if that did happen, it would maybe have implications for the emerald dream.
i think azeroth titan spirit is on chaos and the old gods side but not corrupted by their energy as to not trigger any titan alarms, it is suppose to be growing constantly and learning by the other titan's designs and so it should be aware of what is happening around it and know what has happened thus far.
So if it choose to remain pure until after it is born then it can use its im a good guy energy to "spread its roots" through the universe until it betrays everyone to chaos , the many eyes refers to it becoming corrupted and drinking as in eating the places she spread her roots earlier, and becoming a chaos god or something like that
The him in deep places is wrathion, and im guessing he will try to save everyone again. But with the dark waters flow in his wake thing he may make things worse by releasing something evil free, maybe sargeras?
(all a guess nothing is proven till the end)
I don't think they have omniscience but an elder/old god would have a considerable mental capacity to comprehend what is going on, and probably had an understanding of the 'visitors' from time.
3:50 for what it is worth I threw an eye of kil'rog in that pit hit the bottom pretty much same model as the raid in dragonsoul no mobs or anything down there :P that i noticed. The only thing that comes to mind with that seed your showing "this time will be different" I couldn't help but notice that void flower was gone in the campaign quest through the dream. Also have you done the ruby feast quests? A savory fish stands out among the rest.
Wait wait wait, they are not going with mad scientist Tyr created galakrond and he escaped his lab?
I find it inconsistent that the emerald dream would be made by Azeroth before the old gods because, presumably, the cycle of life and death, the curse of flesh, is from the old gods.
The "roots" could mean the origins of life, meaning the doubts and fears that the dragon isles have awakened with (from talking to some npcs). Madness is just thoughts, now we have brought those thoughts to the roots of civilization and titan order.
Popping in with an opinion-- "The void speaks half truths."
The void lords/old gods have seen basically any/every possible sequence of events that could have played out. That makes them seem dangerous and omnipresent, sure, but it also gets to why they seem to always lose.
Yes, they could have foreseen what is happening at this exact moment, but they've also seen infinity-kajillion permutations of the sequence of events. They think they're playing along the variation where they win. They aren't.
damn, dont even care about the lore but the voice and narration is good
Personally i see it like this, nzoth can see all times, all outcomes, all possibilities.... When we popped out infront of it by accident, nzoth recognised us from its own downfall then started plotting Azeroths downfall and the corruption of deathwing...
N'zoth and Il'gynoth are the true gigachads of Warcraft
By the full whispers and events after the vault, I'm assuming N'Zoth means the three Incarnates "going deeper" and us following them. The drinking deep def would be more of the tainted water, which I think the primalists will drink and mutate. Or possibly the blood of Galakrond itself the drink in to "be like the stongest of their kind".
Azeroth that communicated with Magni is maybe an old god, would make sense then that Magni is described as a pawn. It would also make sense that Sargeras so desperately wanted to defeat Azeroth, as we've learned during Legion that Sargeras feared the Void much more than the Light or anything else. Perhaps Azeroth is Y'shaarj. He was supposed to be the strongest of the old gods, but we haven't seen much of him, only his influence in Pandaria. Perhaps this is what is "below and will rise again".
y'shaarj was the old god that aman'thul ripped out creating the well of eternity though. i dont think there is that much of him to see unless he is now on the moon.
Didn’t a void seed get planted in the dream in Legion?
NZoth has referred to eyes being opened in the past as people becoming corrupted by void. I think he's talking about the infinite dragonflight as the "eyes being opened again. Drink and be uplifted." Maybe Nozdormu and his flight drinking the corrupted water? The "again" part might be referring to their protodragon forms prior to titan influence.
5 keys to open our way, 5 torches to light our path. What if this is the oath stones?
When they keep saying her dreams are our dreams her songs are our songs I wonder if Azeroths in the beginning was actually avoid god of some sort
We have seen and fought every old God in Azeroth except Y'shaaraj, I'm really hoping they bring him back.
Maybe instead of us, he is talking to Chromie/Eternus? I know there are some theories that Chromie is Eternus, and maybe "What you were" was to Eternus, and "What you will yet be" is directed to Chromie?
i had a theory that Deathwing comes back, but heavily mutated to the point, that his form can't take a normal shape, so he uses galakrond's bones as a means to keep a dragon form.
lol, if WoW was made in Japan...
@@mokarokas-1727
look im lookin for a monster to fight, not something nsfw.
Imagine that by travelling to that time with someone who had the gift and probably still has a tiny bit of the gift left, Nzoth made contact with his future self and got infos about our actions. Since this is a mandatory story questline we will always go there.
With many eyes they will see again could refer to the fall of the Chromatic dragon flight to old God madness.
I'm calling it now, Azeroth is to life what the Titans are to order
I think the implication is the Azeroth is a Cosmic Spirit of a First One inserted into the body of a titan. One of the whispers goes like "She is not the last, but the first."
Much more likely to be element of “spirit”
N'zoth knew of us because we're going to go back in time in a future expansion to an even earlier time to do end-expansion stuff (similar to argus) that n'zoth will witness.
Just my theory.
In story writing, there are just a few tricks that you can use to infer some sort of connection in future events, even though those future events haven't even been invented yet in any way.
Dang! Can’t wait for the theories video 🥲
Who would have thought going back in time to meet a monster that can read minds being able to read all the things you experienced in the future to then utilize that infomation was a bad idea.
From my understanding, the Order magic is infused into the waters inside the Halls of Infusion, but the waters come from another source (I think there was a concept image about the wellspring and its way to the Halls). And that source must still be poluted, so I have a theory that connects the "With many eyes..." whisper with the "You will follow him..." one.
Iridikron will dig its way to the depths of the earth through the original wellspring, thus causing two important effects: One, it deplets the water source of the Halls, making them unfunctional, and two, it drains the "dark waters" to his domain, so they will "follow in his wake".
Who will drink them? Most likely the Primalists, but the phrase seems to be aimed to the dragons, so maybe one of them who goes rogue?
I'm firmly on the side of "Azeroth is not actually a Titan", at least as we currently understand Titans. All evidence for this comes from Titanic sources, but we've already seen signs that World Souls need not be inherently Titanic. We've seen evidence that they can be made to be embodiments of Shadow (through Old Gods), Disorder (both in Sargeras' attempts on Argus and his designs for Azeroth), and Death (through the work of the Nathrezim to subvert the conversion of Argus).
Given that we know that World Souls can be converted to a given power with sufficient Magical input, it makes perfect sense to assume that the Titans did the same. Since we live in a post-ordering world, it's simply impossible to know how things were before the Titans came. Azeroth herself may not even know her original nature, having been subject to Titanic Ordering for most of her lifespan. I don't know if Azeroth is a First One, but I think it's very likely that World Souls are more malleable than the Titans' influence has led us to believe.
A lot of things point toward Azeroth being a Void Lord. The Old Gods describe it as "our song." We were always told that if the Old Gods were not dealt with that it would awaken a "dark titan"... everyone always assumed that would be due to the corruption from the Old Gods, but what if it isn't? What if that is what Azeroth IS and it is simply waking that up? Also, the name comes from "Azathoth" the "blind idiot god" who is the "the ruler of the Outer Gods, and may be seen as a symbol for primordial chaos." Gee... outer gods like the Old Gods that our lore says came from somewhere outside? Primordial chaos like the primal elemental forces seen on the planet? From Lovecraft:
"[O]utside the ordered universe [is] that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity-the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes."
Even more telling? Azathoth is described as a CREATOR and that everything that exists is simply his DREAM (and remember that the Old Gods themselves do not die but only sleep).... so like Azeroth, Azathoth is asleep as well:
"Out in the mindless void the daemon bore me
Past the bright clusters of dimensioned space,
Till neither time nor matter stretched before me,
But only Chaos, without form or place.
Here the vast Lord of All in darkness muttered
Things he had dreamed but could not understand,
While near him shapeless bat-things flopped and fluttered
In idiot vortices that ray-streams fanned.
They danced insanely to the high, thin whining
Of a cracked flute clutched in a monstrous paw,
Whence flow the aimless waves whose chance combining
Gives each frail cosmos its eternal law.
"I am His Messenger," the daemon said,
As in contempt he struck his Master’s head."
Another work alludes to Azathoth being the center of the cosmos... and now we know the Maelstrom IS at the center of everything in WoW, and exists in all dimensions and all periods of time. Azathoth "rules all time and space from a curiously environed black throne at the centre of Chaos." Sounds eerily familiar, and considering that in the Lovecraft universe it waking up means the end of everything one would wonder what will happen in WoW... at the very least we know the Emerald Dream IS a direct creation through Azeroth's dreams. In Lovecraft lore, Azathoth is the mother of practically all the other beings described; mirroring the stories in WoW like the Taurens who are considered her "children."
Even more interesting, tying into the idea of "our song" is the constant mention of flutes playing the throne of Azathoth. One of the direct influences for Azathoth was Lord Dunsany's Mana-Yood-Sushai, from The Gods of Pegana. A god that sleeps eternally, lulled by the music of a lesser deity who must drum forever, "for if he cease for an instant then MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI will start awake, and there will be worlds nor gods no more." This idea of music to keep an oblivious creator god asleep is the common thread between all of this.
The work of Gary Myers expands on the mythos to talk about a "Dreamland" and the "waking world" which were both created by Azathoth. A few quotes:
"[T]he allegorical figure of Azathoth, the primal monster who had given birth to the stars at the beginning of time, and who, according to an obscure tradition, would devour them at its end."
"[P]resently the benign Elder Ones would be deposed by infinity’s Other Gods, who would drag the world down a black spiral vortex to the central void where the demon sultan Azathoth gnaws hungrily in the dark...."
Now the "Elder Ones" (aka Old Gods) WERE deposed by other gods... the Titans. A spiral vortex to the central void sounds eerily familiar to the maelstrom which is now cannon as the absolute center of EVERYTHING and is found in every realm and throughout time.
Loved the video and tinkering with possibilities.
We might end up in same place as it is in Diablo universe - both angels and demons are morally gray (both good and bad, but following their agenda, not human's or this world's agenda, which makes humans suffer and have almost no choice). I would love if in the end the Void/old gods would actually be a good, and titans/light be morally bad, which will make them our enemies at the end of Warcraft lore. But "both are are morally gray or bad" are way more possible.
The whole "roots" theme reminds me of the remnant of the void we can find at the end of the EN raid.