It would be cool if Chromie influence, making Nozdormu more open to affecting the timeline, is the very thing that makes him corrupt and eventually become Murozond
And, for the sake of some wired bullshit timeywhimy story, they missed out on the cool "we see ourself killing the other boss in the dungeon" moment. ;)
@@Hairaldan ik it has been multiple months since this came out, but how cool would it have been if during the boss, we fail to stop the rise of murozond, but chromie takes us a short bit back in time to the beginning of the boss to team up with our past selves to do more damage to deios, repeat untill we actually manage to kill him
Nozdormu will end up becoming Murozond at his own decision, it is the most convenient and from my reasonable point of view to look at the other aspects, Neltharion corrupted himself in search of power, Malygos ended up going crazy after a great tragedy, Ysera was corrupted in battle against nightmares. Nozdormu will choose to become Murozond and save us from a great evil, when will that be, that is the question... Next time in World of Warcraft......
Yeap. I like villains who chose to become villains rather than 'oh no i am a victime of my consequences' kinda crap. Its why Iridrikron , although a new character, with less screen time, less dialogues is already a far superior villain. Because he is no wuss, and is focused on his goals and ambitions.
So Nozdormu isn’t doing anything different? Neltharion became Deathwing because he was corrupted trying to achieve his own ends. Malygos was corrupted because as you said his search for power drove him crazy. These are all personal gains regardless of what they are aiming for. Nozdormu choosing to become Murozond for his own personal gain (saving Azeroth or the true timeline) will not be a big departure from his brothers. Personal gain is personal gain whether it’s for good or bad. Only Ysera was corrupted as a victim of circumstances.
@@hotfireend Pretty sure Neltharion wasn't corrupted to achieve his own ends, he became corrupted when he had to make the difficult decision to accept N'zoth's power or lose to and probably be killed by Raszageth since she just shattered Oathbinder, severing his ability to command the dracthyr who were now fighting blind. From that point on the true Neltharion was lost and day by day he became more Deathwing and less Neltharion until the Aspect of Earth was gone and only Death remained.
@@hotfireend Malygos went insane after his flight was decimated by Deathwing. He was only our adversary because he didn't want mortals to use magic. He was never a real villain.
15:14 "Ysera, your daughter is hot." XD As for Iridikron's scheme. My guess is he's going to unleash this "harbinger" he mentioned to wrest Azeroth from titan influence. Iridikron will expect the titans to show up to try and reclaim Azeroth. But since the titans are stuck in the seat of the pantheon, keeping Sargeras imprisoned along with Illidan. The titans won't show up. Iridikron will think "where are they?" And then the Harbinger will turn around and say "You played your part well Iridikron. But now...Azeroth belongs...to the void." And betray the incarnate.
Ironic in the Infinite Dragonflights determined pursuit of bringing about Murozond they unintentionally created a closed loop paradox which because of the inconsistent nature of Paradoxes allows Nozdormu to exist in the true timeline along side the closed loop of Murozond who undoubtably is wandering around the timeways until our champions encounter him in the end times... Long story short when messing with time bring several diagrams to ensure one does not accidentally become ones own grand green dragoon grandpa...
This got a good chuckle out of me as well as showing we have at least one possible Time Walker among us here. Good job, friend! And yeah, time travel tends to make your brain hurt. This is why you keep notes and charts, or have an AI to crunch the numbers for you. If that AI starts acting like Marvin the Paranoid Android, don't worry. That's completely natural for an AI dealing with time.
I feel the concern for the infinite's story line being done and forgotten with this patch story, but Murozond's concept is Nozdormu fallen to madness. So technically Murozond's birth can happen at any point as long as Nozdormu lives with the threat of the old gods/void. I sure hope blizzard isn't writing off the infinites like this.
In my opinion, the cutscene after defeating the first version of Iridikron, showing Murozond rising, is supposed to be much more metaphorical that literal. So, instead of it being interpreted as "We stopped Iridikron, but while we were fighting him, Deios somehow corrupted Nozdormu Deus ex Machina-style and evolved him from a proto-dragon.", I think it would be more logical to think about it like "We stopped Iridikron, but while we were fighting him, Deios somehow connected the timelines containing Murozond to the current true timeline we were in, accelerating to the vanishing point. Allowing the true Murozond to exist in this timeline (Possibly overwriting the old Nozdormu)" which is what we see in the cutscene; not literally the same proto-Nozdormu you just saw moments ago. It could even be that Deios merged with the proto-Nozdormu, acting as a catalyst for the forced time-leap to when Nozdormu actually fell to Murozond. Not so much of a recon with Nozdormu's origins as it is an anomaly that could only come to be in this dungeon, connecting the future with the past. Of course, it's all up to speculation, since... you know... Wibbly Wobbly Timey-Wimey stuff. I'm curious about other people's anecdotes on this.
Yeah I feel like I don't that was literally our Nozdormu. I feel like Deios performed some kind of maniplation on both time and space that allowed the potential future version of Murozond to manifest in our present....past.....whenever he showed up. But again we are dealing with time and with a being that technically doesn't even exist yet, so we are getting into the abstract by default.
I wonder if instead of them corrupting Proto Dragon Nozdormu into Muruzond, if actual Murozond popped up there to make us think the infinites had succeeded and manipulate us into attempting to thwart something that never happened.
Recently (BFA, Shadowlands, less Dragon flight) I get the following feeling: Small scale stories are always written well (orc/human heritage Armor Questline, blue Dragon flight Questline ...) Large scale stories are mostly written poorly (Sylvanas in BFA, jailor/Shadowlands and the wrap ups of the ny'alotha, nazjatar and murozond plotlines)
smaller scale stories are also less popular, they cant keep making Dragonflights every expansion, next one has to hit harder and with a continuous story they will be able to do a lot more than just being limited to 1 expac at a time.
A lot of people are saying that the figure we see in the void portal is Azshara and not Xal'atath. Those people seem to have forgotten what Azshara looks like nowadays.
Well, she did leave through a Void Portal in Ny'alotha, and on the Forbidden Reach the Naga have documented on her returning, but honestly it could be either one coming back with a Void Army.
@@HavocHounds1988 Did the outline in the portal have tentacles? Also, those texts we find on the Forbidden Reach clearly refer to the Harbinger as a separate being from Azshara. It says that once the Harbinger is done with Azeroth, then Azshara will return to rule.
@@PinataFreaks No tentacles, but maybe Aszhara is concealing her true form, she's done that before. Oh I forgot about that part that the Harbinger was separate, so yeah it is most likely Xal.
@@ninaloveray She said she is done with heralds and intermediaries, and that she was going for the true seat of power. So that sounds like she is going for the position of the Void Lords. But I do agree it did look more like a Blood Elf/High Elf by the silhouette, I was just throwing it out there because you never know.
I’m really starting to think Blizzard ran out of ideas with Nozdormu. I wished they remembered their own established character progression. Because Murozond is been dealt with since The Shattering. Where it was pretty much explained how he would become Murozond if continued on the current he was on. He pretty much explained to Thrall/Go’El That he had a vision of his own demise and by investigating it to try and either understand or stop it. He became corrupted. He was reminded by Go’El that all that matters is the here and now. Nothing else.
I more think this is just a tactical move, it is likely we stopped one of likely several events that would lead to murozond eventually making the infinites feel the need to directly interfere; Iridikron just uses it like he is using his siblings to force us to make the right choice in the moment but allow him to get his void invasion party going it could have had a bit better build up and better exploration of it during the dungeon but I think they were at least clear in their IDEA for it all.
@@HavocHounds1988 it wasn’t. Him becoming Murozond was due to him becoming easily corrupted because he split himself off in so many versions. Into finding out how or why he died. By the Old Gods
I want to point out that the line Chromie said at start of the video sounds exactly like something infinite dragons do. And combined with appearance of Morchie, I think she really IS future Chromie.
I love how they say Azeroth is cleansed of the Old Gods yet we never killed Yogg, We just put him back in his box they even confirmed it in the book Exploring Azeroth: Northrend.
Blizzard claimed we did indeed "kill them", with some lingering corruption in Ulduar that's being contained by the Keepers. Although, they also brought back the Vanilla- era book that spoke of 5 Old Gods in 10.0.7, and now there are speculations of a fifth Old God on the other side of Azeroth. Blizz's writing has been inconsistent of late. But what we do know, is the Old Gods originate from the Void, and it's the only place where they can be truly killed, just like with demons in the Twisting Nether, and mortal souls in the Shadowlands. So we might see them again, if we go to the Void realm at some point.
I am happy we got to deal with this story in a very cool dungeon. Story continuity aside; it’s been difficult for the writing team to keep it together and I’ve accepted flaws that come along as long as the story in the moment is good. After shadowlands that is the best you can ask for and hopefully never hearing about shadowlands again.
If ANY iteration of time travel ever created has taught me anything it is this: death is inevitable as it is part of the endless cycle that the Titans wish to enforce/preserve/continue. But death doesn’t mean “The End”, even in this kind of cycle. But since we humans even fail to understand our own universe and reality and its reason for being, the story of WOW can and prob will continue to enfold into another “even bigger” box every time we “deal” with previously established lore - aka “The even bigger threat of the bigger biggest thread that came before we knew” and so on. Until time (or money) pulls the plug. They should just close the loop at some point and accept the inevitable for what it is and show the reasons for it - usually one trying to AVOID the inevitable being the reason for its existence - and continue the story forwards instead of folded into itself. Yes Murozond will happen and will die and is already dead from out timeline point of view. So let’s explore what happens AFTER
I think this is the right moment to finish Moruzand's story cause although it is good story, it is difficult to actually finish the story, especially with time traveling, without create some loophole, so for me, at least acceptable ending.
The vision of the Titans keeps being called into question, and Chromie insists on saving Nozdormu, even though that's clearly working against what's supposed to happen, according to the "true" timeline; neither of those things have been portrayed as bad things, so maybe the bronze dragonflight will end up turning their backs on their precious "true timeline" and find another path, without needing to turn all evil. That could be cool.
Bronze dragonflight protects "the one true timeline" where Nozdormu becomes Murozond. If we stopped this event, we changed titans "one true timeline" into something different and because Iridrikon used this voidgate, I think that this new timeline is positive for purple team. Blizzard hints that Titans are not always super benevolent, so what will happend when they learn about our failure.
Wait hang on. So the true timeline rules say NoZ cannot prevent his death, or he’ll become infinite. But the death he sees is when he is infinite. So he has to become infinite in order to die and fulfill his destiny. Meaning becoming Murozond, “breaking” the rules, is inevitable and part of the true timeline.
@@broKen73484 What I mean is the Deathwing spiking himself on the tower, and echoes of champions like Baine and such turning against us, but Nozdormu becoming Murozond is not just an alternate timeline thing, that is a thing I think is inevitable in all timelines.
This cannot be the true birth of Murozond, we know that at the point of his ascension Nozdormu was shown the moment of his death and that if he would try to subvert that fate he would become Murozond and be slain in that moment at the "End Time" as he calls it. Meaning he will die at that specific moment whether or not he turns into Murozond will not change that (only delay it). Unless they've decided to hugely retcon his story this doesn't track at all because this is a moment in his past that the infinites were trying to change and it looks nothing like the End Time. Side note, "You know not what you have done. Aman'Thul.. What I have seen", I've assumed in the past that the first half of the dialog was directed towards us the champions but what if this was all directed at Aman'Thul what if Murozond saw something that Aman'Thul did to the timeline (to ensure a favorable outcome for the titans) and saw that it would lead to something really bad (perhaps the ultimate victory of the force outside the pattern?) All speculation and no evidence to back this up but I like the idea that Aman'Thul fucked up :P
I really hope they're setting up a Deathwing Revival. Yogg Created the Nightmare, and the Drust have Carvings of a snake that looks similar to Deathwing. I really hope they have him return and claim the final oathstone instead of his Children. He'll burst form the Sea like the Prepfoot were talking about since they consumed Nightmare infused grains. Everything we've killed that's old god related would be inside the Nightmare, an Afterlife created by Yogg Saron after taking power from Zovaal. The Emerald Dream is also an afterlife, one that is often forgotten when talking about Death. Nightelven Souls seem to go there, this gives them the ability to become wisps. Maybe the life energies there allow them to return to "life" for a while. When the Nightelves died at Teldrassil, not everyone was saved by Elune, The Undead Nightelf we see says this is why she joined the forsaken. Her God was picking and choosing who to save and who to condemn to the Maw. Although we later learn she has been trying to send them to Ardenweald but the Arbiter was broken. I really hope Deathwing returns as some Void Empowered Snake, his body torn asunder from the fight at the Mealstorm. Taking the Role of Jormungandr and starting a new End Time, Ragnarok. There is a Twilight Cultist in Dragonflight trying to sacrifice a prepfoot member for a ritual. Everyone there also believe Deathwing will return from the ocean and they didn't eat old god grains, they have Void Tech in thier cave though. The recent Raid had the final boss talking to his "Father" and we're led to believe it's old god whispers, but I really hope it's Deathwing himself. Now we're sacrificing Malfurion for Y'sera and a 6th World Tree. "The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green." "Hidden from daylight, a sleeping flame rests atop the sixth tree." "Five Lanterns now darkened, the Flame they seek will light the Masters Way."
With 3 Aspects being replaced so far I am kind of hoping they go through with offing or having Alexstraza or Nozdormu idk Retire. And we can have 5 brand new aspects. Also Xal'atath being in the portal made me go ahhhhhhhhh. I really like her
I highly doubt Alextrasza will be replaced since there is no one that can feasibly replace her as both the Life Binder and the Queen of Dragons. Pretty sure most people would get mad if she got replaced by a character that didn't exist prior to Dragonflight. As for Nozdormu, replacing him would be even more difficult since he's supposed to inevitably become Murozond (granted we don't know if Murozond actually has Nozdormu's Aspectral power, so who knows).
@@darkstorm2579yet Nozdormu already has 2 amazing replacements (and it’s not Chromie) But Soridormi and Anachronos. Anachronos lead the bronze flight during his first absence
@@JamailvanWestering I said it would be challenging to replace Nozdormu, not impossible. Alexstrasza is the one that doesn't have anyone that can if something happens to her. And even if Nozdormu has replacements, that doesn't necessarily mean he will (at least in Dragonflight).
@@JamailvanWestering You're cool. I'm at fault too. I was kinda expecting to get backlash for my comment and took it out on you. That's my bad. You definitely added to the conversation with your first comment, listing people who can potentially replace Nozdormu if something happened to him.
i feel like the best version of this could be that because chromie chose to stop Murozond instead of Iridikron Nozdormu needs to break his bond to the titans to stop what is to come. He turns himself of his own will into that what he so desperately didnt want to become. He is forced not only to stop his own death from happening in that moment but the death of all of us and possibly the end of the titans. and while he does this the only other known time magic users see him, and corrupt him to the will of the void. his beliefs in the one true timeline is perverse by their nature. he knows that azeroth and her people must survive for the universe to continue against the void. leading us into a new expansion as he retreats to the end time where we find him and kill him, closing his loop.
I am wondering what the "true endtime" would be. Cata Endtime was "just": Deathwing winning, Aspects being dead along some of our factionleaders, while others went mad and finally i assume the oldgods reigning supreme thus turning it into a Old God win scenario for Azeroth aka Azq'roth. (which for the record id rank all-time-low-we-are-all-f*****-worst-case scenario together with Azmourne, Azewrath, A.Z.E.R.O.T.H.) So what is even worse then that?
My thought is that the dragon we see impaled on the wyrmrest temple in the endtimes is not even Deathwing. It is Wrathion, and it is still possible to happen.
Maybe Murozond is still coming...but he's not actually "Murozond" he's still "Nozdormu" in Moruzond's form. After all, we have the Void Elves. All those encounters still happen one way or another, but now Nozdormu is acting like the Moruzond as he fears.... But I don't know. I'm thinking "closed loop"
I do hope its option no. 2. I do want Nozdormu to become Moruzand so that his timeloop is nice and finished. While I don't really want Chromie to become the next aspect, I want his story to be nicely finished.
but anduin lothar is killed by orgrim doomhammer during siege at blackrock spire and second war while grom hellscream sacrificed himself to kill mannoroth and free the orcs of demonic blood curse during third war.
Whatever the plan for Nozdormu was died when they decided to have him not become Murozond. It doesnt really matter though because whatever the case is they'll just change it to keep the story going and act like it was the plan the whole time.
Yes, they are sub-par writers at best and trying to undertake a more complex story-line, one that is of a temporal nature at that, is far and wide out of Blizzards league. "Good guys win, bad guys lose." nonsense.
One cannot help but wonder if the titans just want Azeroth to wake up and become a titan ... Because what will happen to the planet, then? Will it just blow up and kill everyone on it? Perhaps that's what Iridikron wishes to avoid and goes against the Titans and their plan to awaken the final titan, as they said all the way back in MoP Throne of Thunder!
Isn’t there a third option? What if we didn’t stop anything… and Nozdormu is actually Murozond but hiding it? Like before how Neltharion gif his own corruption for a while.
I noticed no one notices how the time gates look and act exactly like Stargates from Stargate SG1. The werid thing is we still have the sorta image of how Nozdormu falls. With the death of his mate, as we seen a flash back with that Bronze Dragon who died in WoD.
Post Dawn of the Infinites quest with Nozdormu and Eternus. Nozdormu: "But you reminded me, Eternus, that compassion must be considered. Some things are worth changing because our hearts wish it. On that, I agree with the Infinites." Already talking like Murozond. It suggests his fate is inevitable.
Yeah the story itself ended up being very disappointing to me. I was most excited for the Bronze story in Dragonflight and I feel like they solved things in one of the most anticlimactic ways possible.
Was chromie always this annoying? I know her visage is a gnome but i always remebered her personality being bubbly yet insightful and didn't undermine the threatening tone of the situation. And not sounding like some child actor from a teen novel adaptation.
We used to interact with Chromie in much smaller doses, personally I find her much more annoying now not because she’s any different than she has been, but because we deal with her way more frequently
I think she was great this patch. The main highlight. Meanwhile Nozdormu doing basically nothing in the arc he's been building towards since the game began was what annoyed me.
i think the voice actor infantilized her by accident and the voice director needs to step up. Morchie's line were delivered in a better manner for comparison.
I hope that it is option 2 too. I really don't want for a tragic and compelling storyline to go away in a "puff!" because the writing team simply wants to close loose ends. My hope is though that Nozdormu realizes that he HAS to turn into Murozond or else the timeways cannot be saved and give us a chance at fixing whatever the true end time is.
I believe that Iridikron's plan is the great dealbreaker. The first one's created how the universe functions. Six forces, all constantly pushing for dominance. But Iridikron will not be looking for dominance of the elements or the demise of order. I believe that he allies with other likeminded people to completely break the wheel, even more than what the jailer would've done by having death dominating everything. Azeroth and everything else bill be destroyed by this and Nozdormu decides that a world destroyed by the hour of twilight is preferrable to what happened here. But that is just my speculation.
I've recently read of a theory that Chromies actions are the key point to creating Moruzond. I don't remember the exact, specifics but basically by her strongly going against him turning is effectively NOT what the Titans wanted. So the long and short of it, is that she has altered the "true" timeline and in so doing guaranteed Nozdormu's fall from grace. Again, this isn't my theory and I wish like hell I could find the damned thing to link it and give the person their due. And while it may very well be wrong it was a very interesting read. Cheers Nob-dizzle!
It's good to keep in mind that Nozdormu only thinks that he'll have to turn in Murozond and that mortals will have to kill him. I don't think it has to go down the exact same way as shown in Cata (i mean that's at the hour of twilight with Deathwing impaled on Wyrmrest temple and I'm pretty sure that's never gonna happen at this point). But I really like that Nozdormu realizing some of the stuff the incarnates are talking about is true and there is no "one true timeline" for the universe at a very slow pace which could at some point lead to his switch.
If we do get a raid of Iridikron attacking the titans, I want this scene. We're facing Irridikron after following and cleaning up his wake of destruction over in the titans halls. He's super tough with his void powers and at 50% health he pulls out some artifact and full traps the whole raid and says, "I have been planning my revenge for milennia. And I have been watching you heroes, I have been shown 1000 truths and none of them can surprise me, watch as I claim my vengence" Only for us to hear from behind him "You, are not prepared!" and Illidan breaks the artifact and then we do phase 2 against Iridikron. is it a cop out "he said the thing" nostaldia bait? yes, but I fucking love when Illidan says edgy things.
I really like how they actually manage to show the tactical side of Iridikron really well. He was never the main threat and I don't think he will be until 11.0 He always ranks himself after a more immediate threat. He doesn't actively pursue or hurt anyone right now, but he's preparing. Whenever he has to make a move, he attaches himself to a more immediate threat. 10.1's Aberrus was basically just a distraction, even lore-wise it's a neat nostalgia goodie, but it doesn't progress the main story. In 10.1.5 he forces us to choose between his agenda or the more immediate threat of the infinites. In 10.1.7 and/or 10.2 he's gonna deal with the void while we defend against the more immediate threat: Fyrakk. He's buying time and it works really well from a narrative perspective.
“At last, it has come to pass. The moment of my demise. The loop… is closed. My future self will cause no more harm. Still, in time… I will fall to madness… And dip my wick where it doesn’t belong, verily, yea. And you, heroes… will vanquish me. The cycle will repeat. So it goes.” -Charlie Sheenozond, Son of Martin “Murozond” Sheen
It's not confusing if you think of a Klein bottle, and how it has only one surface. Each bottle is a set of possibilities. Folding one into another, you create multiple possibilities simultaneously occurring. Then you do the alteration, and unfold them. Both bottles exist. And YOU, who has touched the surfaces of both bottles, remember things "happening" that now will not happen. It's 2 dimensional time. No confusion if you realize that linear time only exists as long as the needle is in the groove of the record. If you listen to the music, then change some grooves, then listen again, it's different...but your experience is still the same.
I feel like, with the info on the next few expacs revealed, I feel like Murozond will be created in a raid somewhere down the line, where we deal with something so powerful (maybe a void being that can impose its madness on reality) that Nozdormu has to go all-out in his time power to constantly swat away deadly fates the thing is trying to impose on us, and in doing this he is either corrupted by or maybe even has to accept the old gods power in order to put the thing down, only to lose sanity right after and leaves quickly to lock himself in a section of the timeways avoid making us fight him, from there he goes mad and tries to make the end-times of cataclysm as a kind of “better you die quickly here than face what’s to come that you can’t stop” type thing
My understanding of this Murozond is that he *isn't* the true Murozond. Because he was created, at the moment Nozdormu became an aspect, changing EVERYTHING. Meaning, while we fixed the timeline, and unclouded Nozdormu's sight from a massive paradox that unwrites the entirety of everything, the same way we prevented the End Time, a future which prevented anyone from seeing or travelling beyond it. We have NOT prevented his future, we've in fact encouraged him onto the path of becoming Murozond. He embraces one of the infinite as a member of his flight again. Embraces the idea that time is not as rigid as he once thought. And it's because of this. I think Eternus, has succeeded where Deios failed to maintain his paradox.
Vyranoth is making us question whether the titans are wrong. We've always thought of them as the ultimate force for good, because they opposed Sargeras and made the world as we know it. But there may be more to this than we thought. Maybe the "one true timeline" is actually just the one the titans like the most. Maybe they want Nozdormu to fall in the end before he becomes too powerful and a threat to them.
A thought.... Midnight isn't Just a metaphor for night falling... It's also a "dark time" perhapse old nozzy boy will be corrupted in post tww, especially since we're going back to northrend in midnight, and end time's location is wyrmrest Temple
Imagine if the 10.2 raid is the Siege of the world tree. The first 2 bosses are us grabbing forces from the shadowlands to defend the gift from the winter queen. the second 2 bosses are us gathering allies from the dragon isles and defending against gnolls. Then there are 5 bosses where we defend the tree from the siege of the incarnetes but get pushed back after every encounter, with a last encounter where fyrakk burns the tree and we kill fyrakk after pulling the shadowflame out of him. In the end cinematic we tell vyranoth what iridikron and fyrakk did and she uses her ice powers to heal the tree and becomes a neutral white dragonflight of elemental dragons. We already got our guldan moment with iridikron leaving us hanging with the threat of the void being bigger than ever.
My personal belief is nozdormu will constantly end as murozond while he is the aspect of the bronze, and chrome will fix this by becoming the aspect in his place
Chromie made two timelines by accident, where we failed to stop the rise of Murozond but stop Iridikron from collecting the essence of Galakrond and one where we failed to stop Iridikron from collecting the essence of Galakrond but stop the rise of Murozond (The Main/True Timeline).
it's all a bit ironic isn't it? Neltharion the Earth Warder was corrupted by the voices in the Deep, the Old Gods buried under Azeroth. Ysera, the Dreamer and Matron of the Emerald Dream is corrupted and killed by the Emerald Nightmare. Nozdormu, the Timeless one who can see all futures, goes mad due to his visions and tries to stop destiny. And Malygos... well, you could argue that it was the Dragon Soul that got him, he's the Aspect of Magic and yet the Artifact he created was used to destroy his flight which him insane. He dies trying to control all magic and deprive mortals of it. This last one's a reach but basically all of their duties/domains were turned against them. I would be surprised if Alexstrasza doesn't suffer a similar fate.
imo Blizzard is currently going gameplay first story second, they probably didnt really wrap up any story here but just wanted to make a dungeon and storyline based on the infinites again as its been quite some time. and the dungeon is cool, so it was def worth doing what they were doing , even timerifts are an awesome concept Hope they keep doing ideas like this.
Not too sad about that. Wow has killed off notable villains at an unprecedented pace. (Just look at bfa) keeping characters people actually care about for use later is preferable
This is the perfect way to do it, honestly - Rather than just villain batting Nozdormu, we're in for a long, slow descent... Unless the infinites cease to exist, the threat of Murozond will always be present- By acting like they're safe, it sets up the scenario where "the bad thing" happens that makes Nozdormu willingly choose to change, which hasn't happened yet. As for the Harbinger and the Essence.. We have a prophecy outstanding for the corruption of Alexstrazsa. What happens if you give the hunger of Galakrond to the Lifebinder?
For Malygos it is even worse, he bascially got betrayed by his own kin twice. First from Deathwing and then by the Wyrmrest Accord. Yesra talking about their unbreakable bond makes it even worse.
Tbh you'd think that Anachronos would appear in this given how he is literally Nozdormus son, I feel like there was more chromie in this than characters that would better fit the story. The bronze flight is really the only flight where you barely know anything about anyone outside of Chromie and Soridormi.
I feel that they just cannot let go Nozdormu for the sake of the plot just yet. But Murozond is still something that WILL eventually happen. While seems to be not in this expansion anymore they can use this storyline again in the future. Like in a Void theme expansion.
I think you missed the final conclusion of the entire story where the aspect and the infinite dragon that fights with Chormie during the main story. It's would be good to add somewhere
I am definetly hoping for Option 2. Murozond simply cannot be dealt with since it is Nozdormu's literal, inescapable fate. And indeed, there's the question how Deios was even able to corrupt a normal protodrake Nozdormu into his future Murozond that was as strong as his Aspect self. However, knowing Blizzard, I would not be surprised if they went with option 1 and just said "Lol, Murozond dealt with, goodluck, have fun."
I feel like nozdurmo will only turn in the true "titan's" timeline, and since chromie unintentionally changed and deviated the timeline he will no longer turn to murozond unless they go back to the titan's timeline. so i think it will be a revelation.
Morchie's voice reminds me of HIM at points. Also i hate that people have immediately jumped on the elf silhouette being that of Xal'atath. Narratively she hasn't been mentioned in years making it extremely poor righting for her to 'be the harold' when it makes more sense for it to be nelf form Azshara (her more known and iconic form) given how she was hinted at coming back in 10.0.7
You know I have a theory anout Amanthul's vision to Nasdormu and I feel like it was not dhowing his true death but a warning if he strayed from his path I mean as we can see Murazod cane hapoen at any moment and when it dies hapoen we are fated to kill him this eill be an absolute so I doubt that Nasdormu will willingly become Murazond after this warning
There’s one problem with this story, aside from what Nobbel mentions: how can we go back to the same point in time a second time, have a different conversation with a different outcome, and more importantly, NOT RUN INTO OURSELVES?!?!
Lets not forget that xalatath is not a pure void being anymore since we channeled the corruption of the sword into her in Legion. She might be a 3rd force, together with aszara and the ethereals.
I think what Iridikron is hinting at, and what it seems a lot of the lore is pointing to at the moment, is that a World Soul is not a Titan. It’s some sort of cosmological being that slumbers in worlds, and can be infused by different kinds of magic to create these incredibly powerful beings. That’s why Aman’Thul had to go about creating new Titans for his pantheon: he was running about filling World Souls with Order magic to cause them to “evolve” in to Titans. We know that the Titans and their keepers goal was to infuse parts of Azeroth with Order magic - this is literally what the Halls of Infusion exist to do - and we also know that World Souls that are infested with Old Gods become Void Lords. It’s hinted by Soridormi in one of the Time Rift quests, where she wonders what has happened to Azeroth’s World Soul in the Titan timeline, and it doesn’t sound like very hopeful speculation. I think the next expansion will be versus Order and the Titans in some way, maybe as a consequence of what Iridikron has done leading to the Titans returning to finally pluck Azeroth from her shell, and damn the consequences to us. This will end up freeing Nozdormu from his curse, and likely prevent the Bronze from being able to act on the timelines as a result in the same way they can now, among many many other things.
Ah man, i really dont wanna have to fight Xal'atath, i wont be able to attack my knaifu.. Hoping she's just playing 9d chess and is going to do something that helps us.
Nozdormu is going to realize the titans were jailers and he was their tool and he'll embrace the infinite so he can escape the one true timeline and act freely.
If we are ever in a situation where Nozdormu dies and we have to find another to take his place as Aspect, my vote is on Chromie. She's adorable, funny and lovable.
A third option is that we have created a fork in the road scenario and our Nozdormu now will never become Nozdormu but that timeline still technically exists.
I thought this was clearly what they went with. It is technically a retcon to the dungeon journal but I liked it- Chromie and us cause him to rise, and we kill him.
While Iridikron's allying with Void is the more boring outcome considering Neltharion's downfall and how much we have fought the Void it does still make sense from a character stand point. The Light and the Titans seem more or less aligned when it comes to their ultimate goal with perhaps the Titans even using the Light on occasion. That and perhaps the Void can be a more interesting enemy if Blizzard takes the current story that the Old Gods would often fight one another before the Titans came possibly showing that the Void isn't one unified force but a fractured one. If the mysterious "Void Lords" are not unified but may in fact be fighting amongst themselves in their own way that could make Iridikron's allying with them more interesting then it being just a copy of Deathwings. Perhaps there is more of a separation between the fleshy old god voidy guys and the space like voidy guys then just their aesthetics. It would also make sense that a faction that can see all possibilities may be divided as to the best way to getting towards their ultimate goal.
at this point, chromie should be the new aspect bec of the hardwork she has done in maintaining the timeline. while nozdormu kept on sulking about the future.
Haven't watched your videos for a while, but I do love them and the way you break down the lore. :) So, ... that being said, now that you've finished FFXIV Endwalker.... we gonna get any lore videos for that? :) Hmm?!
I hope they use the infinite dragonflight to reset WoW's timeline and we get a vanilla experience again somehow. May be wishful thinking, but hey, a guy can dream
The murozond that we see in the raid can't be THE murozon our nozdormu will turn into for a lot of reasons, but most important because the birth of this murozond is said to go against the "true timeline" and the evenual fall of our nozdormu is part of it. I interpret that the objective of deimos was create a timeline even more beneficial to the infinites, where murozond is born at the dawn of times and the infinites have much more control, probably eliminating the defeat of murozond in cataclysm. To do it I supose he does time shennanigans connecting the future murozond with the protonozdormu and giving him the aspect powers in advance. Now fanfic time, what I would love to see is that when the eventual fall of nozdormu comes, the one that is condoned by the true timeline, alextrasza, chromie and us make good in the promise to not give up on him. By this point probably we won't be beliving that the timeline of the titans is the only good one, so nozdormu doesn't need to become murozond and end up dying in cataclysm. Ironically this will transform nozdormu into an infinite, because he will abandon the true timeline, but not the one the one that we know, and his future will be for him to decide. With this we could have chromie taking the mantle of bronze aspect, leaving alextrasza as the only original one, and nozdormu as the leader of a new infinite dragonflight, one that instead of change the "true timeline" in favor of the void explores the diferent timelines, acting as scouts that will help decide wich timeline must be the true one, giving us information to gide our desitions. Now that the timeline is free to be tempered with, you can establish that nothing before the birth of this infinite dragonflight can be changed, because that would lead to paradoxes, and this way you clad the past of warcraft as unchangable.
I think the rollback is what the bad guy recognized. This is gonna be the event that triggers the Titans being the big bad. Tyr will be resurrected and eventually try to force transformation. Alexstraza will step in regretting letting what happened protodrake eggs. Thus the Titans begin to agree with sargarus and let him loose
![The Story of Tyrande Whisperwind - Full Version [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ye62vIX4orI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of The Blue Dragonflight [Lore]](/img/1.gif)
It would be cool if Chromie influence, making Nozdormu more open to affecting the timeline, is the very thing that makes him corrupt and eventually become Murozond
The only thing more confusing than this story is the fact they ditched the cool echoing effect for the infinite dragonflight's voices.
I’ve got a friend named Buttcheexus. Would he still be my friend in a different timeline? Perhaps his name would be Buttcheexuszond?!
And, for the sake of some wired bullshit timeywhimy story, they missed out on the cool "we see ourself killing the other boss in the dungeon" moment. ;)
@@Hairaldan ik it has been multiple months since this came out, but how cool would it have been if during the boss, we fail to stop the rise of murozond, but chromie takes us a short bit back in time to the beginning of the boss to team up with our past selves to do more damage to deios, repeat untill we actually manage to kill him
Maybe they're like the goa'uld and can choose to turn it off at will
Nozdormu will end up becoming Murozond at his own decision, it is the most convenient and from my reasonable point of view to look at the other aspects, Neltharion corrupted himself in search of power, Malygos ended up going crazy after a great tragedy, Ysera was corrupted in battle against nightmares.
Nozdormu will choose to become Murozond and save us from a great evil, when will that be, that is the question...
Next time in World of Warcraft......
Yeap. I like villains who chose to become villains rather than 'oh no i am a victime of my consequences' kinda crap.
Its why Iridrikron , although a new character, with less screen time, less dialogues is already a far superior villain. Because he is no wuss, and is focused on his goals and ambitions.
And chromie will go with him?
So Nozdormu isn’t doing anything different? Neltharion became Deathwing because he was corrupted trying to achieve his own ends. Malygos was corrupted because as you said his search for power drove him crazy. These are all personal gains regardless of what they are aiming for. Nozdormu choosing to become Murozond for his own personal gain (saving Azeroth or the true timeline) will not be a big departure from his brothers. Personal gain is personal gain whether it’s for good or bad. Only Ysera was corrupted as a victim of circumstances.
@@hotfireend Pretty sure Neltharion wasn't corrupted to achieve his own ends, he became corrupted when he had to make the difficult decision to accept N'zoth's power or lose to and probably be killed by Raszageth since she just shattered Oathbinder, severing his ability to command the dracthyr who were now fighting blind. From that point on the true Neltharion was lost and day by day he became more Deathwing and less Neltharion until the Aspect of Earth was gone and only Death remained.
@@hotfireend Malygos went insane after his flight was decimated by Deathwing. He was only our adversary because he didn't want mortals to use magic. He was never a real villain.
15:14 "Ysera, your daughter is hot." XD
As for Iridikron's scheme. My guess is he's going to unleash this "harbinger" he mentioned to wrest Azeroth from titan influence. Iridikron will expect the titans to show up to try and reclaim Azeroth. But since the titans are stuck in the seat of the pantheon, keeping Sargeras imprisoned along with Illidan. The titans won't show up. Iridikron will think "where are they?" And then the Harbinger will turn around and say "You played your part well Iridikron. But now...Azeroth belongs...to the void." And betray the incarnate.
it is possible.
Ironic in the Infinite Dragonflights determined pursuit of bringing about Murozond they unintentionally created a closed loop paradox which because of the inconsistent nature of Paradoxes allows Nozdormu to exist in the true timeline along side the closed loop of Murozond who undoubtably is wandering around the timeways until our champions encounter him in the end times... Long story short when messing with time bring several diagrams to ensure one does not accidentally become ones own grand green dragoon grandpa...
That made my brain hurt
so how like fry from futurama became his own grandpa. cool
My high self understands this eloquent possibility.
lol I love this, It allows both to happen. Blizzard pulled a Nintendo. (Zelda)!!!
This got a good chuckle out of me as well as showing we have at least one possible Time Walker among us here. Good job, friend! And yeah, time travel tends to make your brain hurt. This is why you keep notes and charts, or have an AI to crunch the numbers for you. If that AI starts acting like Marvin the Paranoid Android, don't worry. That's completely natural for an AI dealing with time.
In Legion and up to now, we never did figure out who tried to kill Chromie
Thinking more on this, I think that it was Morchie (her Infinite Dragon self from an alternate timeline) who tried to kill her.
I feel the concern for the infinite's story line being done and forgotten with this patch story, but Murozond's concept is Nozdormu fallen to madness. So technically Murozond's birth can happen at any point as long as Nozdormu lives with the threat of the old gods/void. I sure hope blizzard isn't writing off the infinites like this.
Thank you for keeping us up to date with the lore Nobbel ❤ keep it up
In my opinion, the cutscene after defeating the first version of Iridikron, showing Murozond rising, is supposed to be much more metaphorical that literal. So, instead of it being interpreted as "We stopped Iridikron, but while we were fighting him, Deios somehow corrupted Nozdormu Deus ex Machina-style and evolved him from a proto-dragon.", I think it would be more logical to think about it like "We stopped Iridikron, but while we were fighting him, Deios somehow connected the timelines containing Murozond to the current true timeline we were in, accelerating to the vanishing point. Allowing the true Murozond to exist in this timeline (Possibly overwriting the old Nozdormu)" which is what we see in the cutscene; not literally the same proto-Nozdormu you just saw moments ago. It could even be that Deios merged with the proto-Nozdormu, acting as a catalyst for the forced time-leap to when Nozdormu actually fell to Murozond. Not so much of a recon with Nozdormu's origins as it is an anomaly that could only come to be in this dungeon, connecting the future with the past. Of course, it's all up to speculation, since... you know... Wibbly Wobbly Timey-Wimey stuff. I'm curious about other people's anecdotes on this.
that is a great idea, that makes so much sense
Yeah I feel like I don't that was literally our Nozdormu. I feel like Deios performed some kind of maniplation on both time and space that allowed the potential future version of Murozond to manifest in our present....past.....whenever he showed up. But again we are dealing with time and with a being that technically doesn't even exist yet, so we are getting into the abstract by default.
I wonder if instead of them corrupting Proto Dragon Nozdormu into Muruzond, if actual Murozond popped up there to make us think the infinites had succeeded and manipulate us into attempting to thwart something that never happened.
Yeah, this is also how I interpreted it in the dungeon last week.
Recently (BFA, Shadowlands, less Dragon flight) I get the following feeling:
Small scale stories are always written well (orc/human heritage Armor Questline, blue Dragon flight Questline ...)
Large scale stories are mostly written poorly (Sylvanas in BFA, jailor/Shadowlands and the wrap ups of the ny'alotha, nazjatar and murozond plotlines)
smaller scale stories are also less popular, they cant keep making Dragonflights every expansion, next one has to hit harder and with a continuous story they will be able to do a lot more than just being limited to 1 expac at a time.
Calling it now - Someone is going to die and Nozdormu changes the time to prevent it from happening thus truning into Murozond.
A lot of people are saying that the figure we see in the void portal is Azshara and not Xal'atath. Those people seem to have forgotten what Azshara looks like nowadays.
Well, she did leave through a Void Portal in Ny'alotha, and on the Forbidden Reach the Naga have documented on her returning, but honestly it could be either one coming back with a Void Army.
@@HavocHounds1988 Did the outline in the portal have tentacles?
Also, those texts we find on the Forbidden Reach clearly refer to the Harbinger as a separate being from Azshara. It says that once the Harbinger is done with Azeroth, then Azshara will return to rule.
@@PinataFreaks No tentacles, but maybe Aszhara is concealing her true form, she's done that before.
Oh I forgot about that part that the Harbinger was separate, so yeah it is most likely Xal.
@@HavocHounds1988that’s not Azshara. She herself said she’s done with the void. That form looked like a thalassian one not night elven/naga one
@@ninaloveray She said she is done with heralds and intermediaries, and that she was going for the true seat of power. So that sounds like she is going for the position of the Void Lords. But I do agree it did look more like a Blood Elf/High Elf by the silhouette, I was just throwing it out there because you never know.
Neltharion: well whatever comes I vow to always defend dragonkind. 😢😢
I think deios is the answer he isnt actually a dragon but a fragment of murozond and needed a nozdormu to fuse with him
I’m really starting to think Blizzard ran out of ideas with Nozdormu.
I wished they remembered their own established character progression. Because Murozond is been dealt with since The Shattering.
Where it was pretty much explained how he would become Murozond if continued on the current he was on.
He pretty much explained to Thrall/Go’El
That he had a vision of his own demise and by investigating it to try and either understand or stop it. He became corrupted.
He was reminded by Go’El that all that matters is the here and now. Nothing else.
I more think this is just a tactical move, it is likely we stopped one of likely several events that would lead to murozond eventually making the infinites feel the need to directly interfere; Iridikron just uses it like he is using his siblings to force us to make the right choice in the moment but allow him to get his void invasion party going it could have had a bit better build up and better exploration of it during the dungeon but I think they were at least clear in their IDEA for it all.
How this constitutes as being dealt with?
@@FelipeSantos-wu1uf because accepting his death without trying to figure out how or why would stop him from turning to Murozond.
@@JamailvanWestering His death is as Murozond, that is the moment he seen when he was given his powers.
@@HavocHounds1988 it wasn’t. Him becoming Murozond was due to him becoming easily corrupted because he split himself off in so many versions.
Into finding out how or why he died. By the Old Gods
I want to point out that the line Chromie said at start of the video sounds exactly like something infinite dragons do. And combined with appearance of Morchie, I think she really IS future Chromie.
I love how they say Azeroth is cleansed of the Old Gods yet we never killed Yogg, We just put him back in his box they even confirmed it in the book Exploring Azeroth: Northrend.
Blizzard claimed we did indeed "kill them", with some lingering corruption in Ulduar that's being contained by the Keepers. Although, they also brought back the Vanilla- era book that spoke of 5 Old Gods in 10.0.7, and now there are speculations of a fifth Old God on the other side of Azeroth. Blizz's writing has been inconsistent of late. But what we do know, is the Old Gods originate from the Void, and it's the only place where they can be truly killed, just like with demons in the Twisting Nether, and mortal souls in the Shadowlands. So we might see them again, if we go to the Void realm at some point.
@@stormstrider1990 the book was recent so I will be going off of that thank you very much.
I am happy we got to deal with this story in a very cool dungeon. Story continuity aside; it’s been difficult for the writing team to keep it together and I’ve accepted flaws that come along as long as the story in the moment is good. After shadowlands that is the best you can ask for and hopefully never hearing about shadowlands again.
If ANY iteration of time travel ever created has taught me anything it is this: death is inevitable as it is part of the endless cycle that the Titans wish to enforce/preserve/continue. But death doesn’t mean “The End”, even in this kind of cycle.
But since we humans even fail to understand our own universe and reality and its reason for being, the story of WOW can and prob will continue to enfold into another “even bigger” box every time we “deal” with previously established lore - aka “The even bigger threat of the bigger biggest thread that came before we knew” and so on. Until time (or money) pulls the plug. They should just close the loop at some point and accept the inevitable for what it is and show the reasons for it - usually one trying to AVOID the inevitable being the reason for its existence - and continue the story forwards instead of folded into itself. Yes Murozond will happen and will die and is already dead from out timeline point of view. So let’s explore what happens AFTER
I think this is the right moment to finish Moruzand's story cause although it is good story, it is difficult to actually finish the story, especially with time traveling, without create some loophole, so for me, at least acceptable ending.
15:00 almost fell of my chair laughing XD
The vision of the Titans keeps being called into question, and Chromie insists on saving Nozdormu, even though that's clearly working against what's supposed to happen, according to the "true" timeline; neither of those things have been portrayed as bad things, so maybe the bronze dragonflight will end up turning their backs on their precious "true timeline" and find another path, without needing to turn all evil. That could be cool.
Evil is a point of view and morality anyway
Bronze dragonflight protects "the one true timeline" where Nozdormu becomes Murozond. If we stopped this event, we changed titans "one true timeline" into something different and because Iridrikon used this voidgate, I think that this new timeline is positive for purple team. Blizzard hints that Titans are not always super benevolent, so what will happend when they learn about our failure.
Stopping the event doesn’t change the one true timeline or it shouldn’t.
Wait hang on.
So the true timeline rules say NoZ cannot prevent his death, or he’ll become infinite.
But the death he sees is when he is infinite.
So he has to become infinite in order to die and fulfill his destiny.
Meaning becoming Murozond, “breaking” the rules, is inevitable and part of the true timeline.
Exactly, and I think this is why he keeps saying that there is no stopping it from happening, because it must come to pass.
It's a cannon event.
You think the clowns making this trash thought about half as hard as you did. This story is over. Buried, another victim of talentless hacks. :(
@@broKen73484 Maybe those events exactly were, but him becoming Murozond is not.
@@broKen73484 What I mean is the Deathwing spiking himself on the tower, and echoes of champions like Baine and such turning against us, but Nozdormu becoming Murozond is not just an alternate timeline thing, that is a thing I think is inevitable in all timelines.
This cannot be the true birth of Murozond, we know that at the point of his ascension Nozdormu was shown the moment of his death and that if he would try to subvert that fate he would become Murozond and be slain in that moment at the "End Time" as he calls it. Meaning he will die at that specific moment whether or not he turns into Murozond will not change that (only delay it). Unless they've decided to hugely retcon his story this doesn't track at all because this is a moment in his past that the infinites were trying to change and it looks nothing like the End Time.
Side note, "You know not what you have done. Aman'Thul.. What I have seen", I've assumed in the past that the first half of the dialog was directed towards us the champions but what if this was all directed at Aman'Thul what if Murozond saw something that Aman'Thul did to the timeline (to ensure a favorable outcome for the titans) and saw that it would lead to something really bad (perhaps the ultimate victory of the force outside the pattern?) All speculation and no evidence to back this up but I like the idea that Aman'Thul fucked up :P
I really hope they're setting up a Deathwing Revival.
Yogg Created the Nightmare, and the Drust have Carvings of a snake that looks similar to Deathwing. I really hope they have him return and claim the final oathstone instead of his Children. He'll burst form the Sea like the Prepfoot were talking about since they consumed Nightmare infused grains. Everything we've killed that's old god related would be inside the Nightmare, an Afterlife created by Yogg Saron after taking power from Zovaal. The Emerald Dream is also an afterlife, one that is often forgotten when talking about Death. Nightelven Souls seem to go there, this gives them the ability to become wisps. Maybe the life energies there allow them to return to "life" for a while. When the Nightelves died at Teldrassil, not everyone was saved by Elune, The Undead Nightelf we see says this is why she joined the forsaken. Her God was picking and choosing who to save and who to condemn to the Maw. Although we later learn she has been trying to send them to Ardenweald but the Arbiter was broken. I really hope Deathwing returns as some Void Empowered Snake, his body torn asunder from the fight at the Mealstorm. Taking the Role of Jormungandr and starting a new End Time, Ragnarok. There is a Twilight Cultist in Dragonflight trying to sacrifice a prepfoot member for a ritual. Everyone there also believe Deathwing will return from the ocean and they didn't eat old god grains, they have Void Tech in thier cave though. The recent Raid had the final boss talking to his "Father" and we're led to believe it's old god whispers, but I really hope it's Deathwing himself.
Now we're sacrificing Malfurion for Y'sera and a 6th World Tree.
"The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green."
"Hidden from daylight, a sleeping flame rests atop the sixth tree."
"Five Lanterns now darkened, the Flame they seek will light the Masters Way."
With 3 Aspects being replaced so far I am kind of hoping they go through with offing or having Alexstraza or Nozdormu idk Retire. And we can have 5 brand new aspects. Also Xal'atath being in the portal made me go ahhhhhhhhh. I really like her
I highly doubt Alextrasza will be replaced since there is no one that can feasibly replace her as both the Life Binder and the Queen of Dragons. Pretty sure most people would get mad if she got replaced by a character that didn't exist prior to Dragonflight. As for Nozdormu, replacing him would be even more difficult since he's supposed to inevitably become Murozond (granted we don't know if Murozond actually has Nozdormu's Aspectral power, so who knows).
@@darkstorm2579yet Nozdormu already has 2 amazing replacements (and it’s not Chromie)
But Soridormi and Anachronos.
Anachronos lead the bronze flight during his first absence
@@JamailvanWestering I said it would be challenging to replace Nozdormu, not impossible. Alexstrasza is the one that doesn't have anyone that can if something happens to her. And even if Nozdormu has replacements, that doesn't necessarily mean he will (at least in Dragonflight).
@@darkstorm2579 I didn’t mean to attack you mate. More like add on to what you already said.
Didn’t mean to come off as aggressive
@@JamailvanWestering You're cool. I'm at fault too. I was kinda expecting to get backlash for my comment and took it out on you. That's my bad. You definitely added to the conversation with your first comment, listing people who can potentially replace Nozdormu if something happened to him.
i feel like the best version of this could be that because chromie chose to stop Murozond instead of Iridikron Nozdormu needs to break his bond to the titans to stop what is to come. He turns himself of his own will into that what he so desperately didnt want to become. He is forced not only to stop his own death from happening in that moment but the death of all of us and possibly the end of the titans. and while he does this the only other known time magic users see him, and corrupt him to the will of the void. his beliefs in the one true timeline is perverse by their nature. he knows that azeroth and her people must survive for the universe to continue against the void. leading us into a new expansion as he retreats to the end time where we find him and kill him, closing his loop.
Shadow priest PVP was my favorite when that talking sociopathic blade existed🕶️💜💀 For the Horde, for Sylvanas!🖤
I am wondering what the "true endtime" would be. Cata Endtime was "just": Deathwing winning, Aspects being dead along some of our factionleaders, while others went mad and finally i assume the oldgods reigning supreme thus turning it into a Old God win scenario for Azeroth aka Azq'roth. (which for the record id rank all-time-low-we-are-all-f*****-worst-case scenario together with Azmourne, Azewrath, A.Z.E.R.O.T.H.)
So what is even worse then that?
My thought is that the dragon we see impaled on the wyrmrest temple in the endtimes is not even Deathwing. It is Wrathion, and it is still possible to happen.
@@simonbehrendt-n4w what a curve ball that'd be. Interesting! As heartbreaking as it sounds, it is a viable way to make Endtimes the "canon" timeline
Maybe Murozond is still coming...but he's not actually "Murozond" he's still "Nozdormu" in Moruzond's form. After all, we have the Void Elves. All those encounters still happen one way or another, but now Nozdormu is acting like the Moruzond as he fears....
But I don't know. I'm thinking "closed loop"
I do hope its option no. 2. I do want Nozdormu to become Moruzand so that his timeloop is nice and finished. While I don't really want Chromie to become the next aspect, I want his story to be nicely finished.
but anduin lothar is killed by orgrim doomhammer during siege at blackrock spire and second war while grom hellscream sacrificed himself to kill mannoroth and free the orcs of demonic blood curse during third war.
alternate timeline shenanigans
Whatever the plan for Nozdormu was died when they decided to have him not become Murozond. It doesnt really matter though because whatever the case is they'll just change it to keep the story going and act like it was the plan the whole time.
Yes, they are sub-par writers at best and trying to undertake a more complex story-line, one that is of a temporal nature at that, is far and wide out of Blizzards league. "Good guys win, bad guys lose." nonsense.
One cannot help but wonder if the titans just want Azeroth to wake up and become a titan ... Because what will happen to the planet, then? Will it just blow up and kill everyone on it? Perhaps that's what Iridikron wishes to avoid and goes against the Titans and their plan to awaken the final titan, as they said all the way back in MoP Throne of Thunder!
Isn’t there a third option?
What if we didn’t stop anything… and Nozdormu is actually Murozond but hiding it? Like before how Neltharion gif his own corruption for a while.
I noticed no one notices how the time gates look and act exactly like Stargates from Stargate SG1. The werid thing is we still have the sorta image of how Nozdormu falls. With the death of his mate, as we seen a flash back with that Bronze Dragon who died in WoD.
Post Dawn of the Infinites quest with Nozdormu and Eternus.
Nozdormu: "But you reminded me, Eternus, that compassion must be considered. Some things are worth changing because our hearts wish it. On that, I agree with the Infinites."
Already talking like Murozond. It suggests his fate is inevitable.
Yeah the story itself ended up being very disappointing to me. I was most excited for the Bronze story in Dragonflight and I feel like they solved things in one of the most anticlimactic ways possible.
It might not be solved completely, just put on hold.
trying to keep track of all these possible story lines is making my head hurt
Was chromie always this annoying? I know her visage is a gnome but i always remebered her personality being bubbly yet insightful and didn't undermine the threatening tone of the situation.
And not sounding like some child actor from a teen novel adaptation.
Yeah.... she was.
@@AgentVamp No she wasn't lol, that sounds like an irrational hateed of gnomes talking
We used to interact with Chromie in much smaller doses, personally I find her much more annoying now not because she’s any different than she has been, but because we deal with her way more frequently
I think she was great this patch. The main highlight. Meanwhile Nozdormu doing basically nothing in the arc he's been building towards since the game began was what annoyed me.
i think the voice actor infantilized her by accident and the voice director needs to step up. Morchie's line were delivered in a better manner for comparison.
I hope that it is option 2 too.
I really don't want for a tragic and compelling storyline to go away in a "puff!" because the writing team simply wants to close loose ends. My hope is though that Nozdormu realizes that he HAS to turn into Murozond or else the timeways cannot be saved and give us a chance at fixing whatever the true end time is.
That sounds dumb. There's been enough corrupted dragons that's been done to death already
I think the Tyr in the Mega-Dungeon is one that never exploded, if you look it appears he has a Silver Hand still, so it's not a rebuilt one.
I believe that Iridikron's plan is the great dealbreaker.
The first one's created how the universe functions. Six forces, all constantly pushing for dominance. But Iridikron will not be looking for dominance of the elements or the demise of order. I believe that he allies with other likeminded people to completely break the wheel, even more than what the jailer would've done by having death dominating everything.
Azeroth and everything else bill be destroyed by this and Nozdormu decides that a world destroyed by the hour of twilight is preferrable to what happened here.
But that is just my speculation.
I've recently read of a theory that Chromies actions are the key point to creating Moruzond. I don't remember the exact, specifics but basically by her strongly going against him turning is effectively NOT what the Titans wanted. So the long and short of it, is that she has altered the "true" timeline and in so doing guaranteed Nozdormu's fall from grace. Again, this isn't my theory and I wish like hell I could find the damned thing to link it and give the person their due. And while it may very well be wrong it was a very interesting read. Cheers Nob-dizzle!
But the true timeline says Moruzond rises. It is 99% confirmed.
It's good to keep in mind that Nozdormu only thinks that he'll have to turn in Murozond and that mortals will have to kill him. I don't think it has to go down the exact same way as shown in Cata (i mean that's at the hour of twilight with Deathwing impaled on Wyrmrest temple and I'm pretty sure that's never gonna happen at this point). But I really like that Nozdormu realizing some of the stuff the incarnates are talking about is true and there is no "one true timeline" for the universe at a very slow pace which could at some point lead to his switch.
If we do get a raid of Iridikron attacking the titans, I want this scene.
We're facing Irridikron after following and cleaning up his wake of destruction over in the titans halls. He's super tough with his void powers and at 50% health he pulls out some artifact and full traps the whole raid and says, "I have been planning my revenge for milennia. And I have been watching you heroes, I have been shown 1000 truths and none of them can surprise me, watch as I claim my vengence" Only for us to hear from behind him "You, are not prepared!" and Illidan breaks the artifact and then we do phase 2 against Iridikron.
is it a cop out "he said the thing" nostaldia bait? yes, but I fucking love when Illidan says edgy things.
I really like how they actually manage to show the tactical side of Iridikron really well. He was never the main threat and I don't think he will be until 11.0
He always ranks himself after a more immediate threat. He doesn't actively pursue or hurt anyone right now, but he's preparing. Whenever he has to make a move, he attaches himself to a more immediate threat. 10.1's Aberrus was basically just a distraction, even lore-wise it's a neat nostalgia goodie, but it doesn't progress the main story. In 10.1.5 he forces us to choose between his agenda or the more immediate threat of the infinites. In 10.1.7 and/or 10.2 he's gonna deal with the void while we defend against the more immediate threat: Fyrakk. He's buying time and it works really well from a narrative perspective.
“At last, it has come to pass. The moment of my demise. The loop… is closed. My future self will cause no more harm. Still, in time… I will fall to madness… And dip my wick where it doesn’t belong, verily, yea. And you, heroes… will vanquish me. The cycle will repeat. So it goes.”
-Charlie Sheenozond, Son of Martin “Murozond” Sheen
Tony Stark said, you mess with time, it tends to mess back. I think Chromie has caused a bigger issue "solving" this problem...
It's not confusing if you think of a Klein bottle, and how it has only one surface. Each bottle is a set of possibilities. Folding one into another, you create multiple possibilities simultaneously occurring. Then you do the alteration, and unfold them. Both bottles exist. And YOU, who has touched the surfaces of both bottles, remember things "happening" that now will not happen.
It's 2 dimensional time. No confusion if you realize that linear time only exists as long as the needle is in the groove of the record. If you listen to the music, then change some grooves, then listen again, it's different...but your experience is still the same.
I feel like, with the info on the next few expacs revealed, I feel like Murozond will be created in a raid somewhere down the line, where we deal with something so powerful (maybe a void being that can impose its madness on reality) that Nozdormu has to go all-out in his time power to constantly swat away deadly fates the thing is trying to impose on us, and in doing this he is either corrupted by or maybe even has to accept the old gods power in order to put the thing down, only to lose sanity right after and leaves quickly to lock himself in a section of the timeways avoid making us fight him, from there he goes mad and tries to make the end-times of cataclysm as a kind of “better you die quickly here than face what’s to come that you can’t stop” type thing
My understanding of this Murozond is that he *isn't* the true Murozond. Because he was created, at the moment Nozdormu became an aspect, changing EVERYTHING.
Meaning, while we fixed the timeline, and unclouded Nozdormu's sight from a massive paradox that unwrites the entirety of everything, the same way we prevented the End Time, a future which prevented anyone from seeing or travelling beyond it. We have NOT prevented his future, we've in fact encouraged him onto the path of becoming Murozond. He embraces one of the infinite as a member of his flight again. Embraces the idea that time is not as rigid as he once thought. And it's because of this. I think Eternus, has succeeded where Deios failed to maintain his paradox.
Vyranoth is making us question whether the titans are wrong. We've always thought of them as the ultimate force for good, because they opposed Sargeras and made the world as we know it. But there may be more to this than we thought. Maybe the "one true timeline" is actually just the one the titans like the most. Maybe they want Nozdormu to fall in the end before he becomes too powerful and a threat to them.
A thought.... Midnight isn't Just a metaphor for night falling... It's also a "dark time" perhapse old nozzy boy will be corrupted in post tww, especially since we're going back to northrend in midnight, and end time's location is wyrmrest Temple
Imagine if the 10.2 raid is the Siege of the world tree. The first 2 bosses are us grabbing forces from the shadowlands to defend the gift from the winter queen. the second 2 bosses are us gathering allies from the dragon isles and defending against gnolls. Then there are 5 bosses where we defend the tree from the siege of the incarnetes but get pushed back after every encounter, with a last encounter where fyrakk burns the tree and we kill fyrakk after pulling the shadowflame out of him. In the end cinematic we tell vyranoth what iridikron and fyrakk did and she uses her ice powers to heal the tree and becomes a neutral white dragonflight of elemental dragons. We already got our guldan moment with iridikron leaving us hanging with the threat of the void being bigger than ever.
My personal belief is nozdormu will constantly end as murozond while he is the aspect of the bronze, and chrome will fix this by becoming the aspect in his place
'already counting the days for that new tree to bit the dust :D
Chromie made two timelines by accident, where we failed to stop the rise of Murozond but stop Iridikron from collecting the essence of Galakrond and one where we failed to stop Iridikron from collecting the essence of Galakrond but stop the rise of Murozond (The Main/True Timeline).
it's all a bit ironic isn't it?
Neltharion the Earth Warder was corrupted by the voices in the Deep, the Old Gods buried under Azeroth.
Ysera, the Dreamer and Matron of the Emerald Dream is corrupted and killed by the Emerald Nightmare.
Nozdormu, the Timeless one who can see all futures, goes mad due to his visions and tries to stop destiny.
And Malygos... well, you could argue that it was the Dragon Soul that got him, he's the Aspect of Magic and yet the Artifact he created was used to destroy his flight which him insane. He dies trying to control all magic and deprive mortals of it.
This last one's a reach but basically all of their duties/domains were turned against them. I would be surprised if Alexstrasza doesn't suffer a similar fate.
imo Blizzard is currently going gameplay first story second, they probably didnt really wrap up any story here but just wanted to make a dungeon and storyline based on the infinites again as its been quite some time.
and the dungeon is cool, so it was def worth doing what they were doing , even timerifts are an awesome concept
Hope they keep doing ideas like this.
He is by far the coolest potential villian this expansion, better shuffle him off and get back to primalists that no one will remener in a year.
Not too sad about that. Wow has killed off notable villains at an unprecedented pace. (Just look at bfa) keeping characters people actually care about for use later is preferable
if there's a nobbel video ,it's canon!
Great coverage on the mega dungeon, thanks!
Personally - i have loved all the aspects especially Nozdormu - i personally hope that we have only delayed Moruzand.
Azeroth being ,,final titan" kinda gives me feeline, that she is not really the lasw awakening titan, just the last one Pantheon wants to awake.
This is the perfect way to do it, honestly - Rather than just villain batting Nozdormu, we're in for a long, slow descent... Unless the infinites cease to exist, the threat of Murozond will always be present- By acting like they're safe, it sets up the scenario where "the bad thing" happens that makes Nozdormu willingly choose to change, which hasn't happened yet.
As for the Harbinger and the Essence.. We have a prophecy outstanding for the corruption of Alexstrazsa. What happens if you give the hunger of Galakrond to the Lifebinder?
15:00 kill neltharion lol
Neltahrion at 27:30. If only he knew whats coming.😢
For Malygos it is even worse, he bascially got betrayed by his own kin twice. First from Deathwing and then by the Wyrmrest Accord.
Yesra talking about their unbreakable bond makes it even worse.
Tbh you'd think that Anachronos would appear in this given how he is literally Nozdormus son, I feel like there was more chromie in this than characters that would better fit the story. The bronze flight is really the only flight where you barely know anything about anyone outside of Chromie and Soridormi.
I feel that they just cannot let go Nozdormu for the sake of the plot just yet. But Murozond is still something that WILL eventually happen. While seems to be not in this expansion anymore they can use this storyline again in the future. Like in a Void theme expansion.
I think you missed the final conclusion of the entire story where the aspect and the infinite dragon that fights with Chormie during the main story. It's would be good to add somewhere
I am definetly hoping for Option 2. Murozond simply cannot be dealt with since it is Nozdormu's literal, inescapable fate. And indeed, there's the question how Deios was even able to corrupt a normal protodrake Nozdormu into his future Murozond that was as strong as his Aspect self.
However, knowing Blizzard, I would not be surprised if they went with option 1 and just said "Lol, Murozond dealt with, goodluck, have fun."
I feel like nozdurmo will only turn in the true "titan's" timeline, and since chromie unintentionally changed and deviated the timeline he will no longer turn to murozond unless they go back to the titan's timeline. so i think it will be a revelation.
Morchie's voice reminds me of HIM at points.
Also i hate that people have immediately jumped on the elf silhouette being that of Xal'atath. Narratively she hasn't been mentioned in years making it extremely poor righting for her to 'be the harold' when it makes more sense for it to be nelf form Azshara (her more known and iconic form) given how she was hinted at coming back in 10.0.7
Would you consider a lore review of the Hearthstone Titan cards, if they have any lore worth reviewing?
def worth to take a look at, they're doing some interesting concepts over at hearthstone
chromie loves him more then his mate
You know I have a theory anout Amanthul's vision to Nasdormu and I feel like it was not dhowing his true death but a warning if he strayed from his path I mean as we can see Murazod cane hapoen at any moment and when it dies hapoen we are fated to kill him this eill be an absolute so I doubt that Nasdormu will willingly become Murazond after this warning
hapoen? what?
@@AgentVamp tldr Amantheul showed the death of Murazod as a warning for straying off the true timeline
There’s one problem with this story, aside from what Nobbel mentions: how can we go back to the same point in time a second time, have a different conversation with a different outcome, and more importantly, NOT RUN INTO OURSELVES?!?!
Lets not forget that xalatath is not a pure void being anymore since we channeled the corruption of the sword into her in Legion. She might be a 3rd force, together with aszara and the ethereals.
Azshara is pretty much done with the void. She herself said that. She has her own plans.
I think the whole idea is that you dont have alternate nozdormus, all of them have coalesced from all timelines into a single one
I think what Iridikron is hinting at, and what it seems a lot of the lore is pointing to at the moment, is that a World Soul is not a Titan. It’s some sort of cosmological being that slumbers in worlds, and can be infused by different kinds of magic to create these incredibly powerful beings. That’s why Aman’Thul had to go about creating new Titans for his pantheon: he was running about filling World Souls with Order magic to cause them to “evolve” in to Titans. We know that the Titans and their keepers goal was to infuse parts of Azeroth with Order magic - this is literally what the Halls of Infusion exist to do - and we also know that World Souls that are infested with Old Gods become Void Lords. It’s hinted by Soridormi in one of the Time Rift quests, where she wonders what has happened to Azeroth’s World Soul in the Titan timeline, and it doesn’t sound like very hopeful speculation.
I think the next expansion will be versus Order and the Titans in some way, maybe as a consequence of what Iridikron has done leading to the Titans returning to finally pluck Azeroth from her shell, and damn the consequences to us. This will end up freeing Nozdormu from his curse, and likely prevent the Bronze from being able to act on the timelines as a result in the same way they can now, among many many other things.
Of all the theories I love this one the most, it actually makes sense. Every major universal power is out to claim these World Souls for themselves.
Ah man, i really dont wanna have to fight Xal'atath, i wont be able to attack my knaifu.. Hoping she's just playing 9d chess and is going to do something that helps us.
They could just chalk the problems up to “wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, stuff”
Nozdormu is going to realize the titans were jailers and he was their tool and he'll embrace the infinite so he can escape the one true timeline and act freely.
infinite tyr looks like kyrian uther.
and zovaal.
chromies voice is so adorable
i physically and mentally groaned when tyr said shackled by the titans. not a fan where they are trying to do with the titans
Wtb Azmerloth dailies, Murloc rep and allied race! Including a Furbolg style language training questline
Love some of that timey wimey bronze lore
If we are ever in a situation where Nozdormu dies and we have to find another to take his place as Aspect, my vote is on Chromie. She's adorable, funny and lovable.
Also the most focused on Bronze Flightmember besides Nozdormu himself.
A third option is that we have created a fork in the road scenario and our Nozdormu now will never become Nozdormu but that timeline still technically exists.
I thought this was clearly what they went with. It is technically a retcon to the dungeon journal but I liked it- Chromie and us cause him to rise, and we kill him.
well. The thing with Nozdormu being Murozond it could happen any time like now or far in the future. Something will force his hand.
While Iridikron's allying with Void is the more boring outcome considering Neltharion's downfall and how much we have fought the Void it does still make sense from a character stand point. The Light and the Titans seem more or less aligned when it comes to their ultimate goal with perhaps the Titans even using the Light on occasion. That and perhaps the Void can be a more interesting enemy if Blizzard takes the current story that the Old Gods would often fight one another before the Titans came possibly showing that the Void isn't one unified force but a fractured one. If the mysterious "Void Lords" are not unified but may in fact be fighting amongst themselves in their own way that could make Iridikron's allying with them more interesting then it being just a copy of Deathwings. Perhaps there is more of a separation between the fleshy old god voidy guys and the space like voidy guys then just their aesthetics. It would also make sense that a faction that can see all possibilities may be divided as to the best way to getting towards their ultimate goal.
I've been doing the introduction quest and Time Rifts for now, but I'm saving the dungeon until the heroic version comes out.
at this point, chromie should be the new aspect bec of the hardwork she has done in maintaining the timeline. while nozdormu kept on sulking about the future.
Haven't watched your videos for a while, but I do love them and the way you break down the lore. :)
So, ... that being said, now that you've finished FFXIV Endwalker.... we gonna get any lore videos for that? :) Hmm?!
I hope they use the infinite dragonflight to reset WoW's timeline and we get a vanilla experience again somehow. May be wishful thinking, but hey, a guy can dream
The murozond that we see in the raid can't be THE murozon our nozdormu will turn into for a lot of reasons, but most important because the birth of this murozond is said to go against the "true timeline" and the evenual fall of our nozdormu is part of it. I interpret that the objective of deimos was create a timeline even more beneficial to the infinites, where murozond is born at the dawn of times and the infinites have much more control, probably eliminating the defeat of murozond in cataclysm. To do it I supose he does time shennanigans connecting the future murozond with the protonozdormu and giving him the aspect powers in advance.
Now fanfic time, what I would love to see is that when the eventual fall of nozdormu comes, the one that is condoned by the true timeline, alextrasza, chromie and us make good in the promise to not give up on him. By this point probably we won't be beliving that the timeline of the titans is the only good one, so nozdormu doesn't need to become murozond and end up dying in cataclysm. Ironically this will transform nozdormu into an infinite, because he will abandon the true timeline, but not the one the one that we know, and his future will be for him to decide. With this we could have chromie taking the mantle of bronze aspect, leaving alextrasza as the only original one, and nozdormu as the leader of a new infinite dragonflight, one that instead of change the "true timeline" in favor of the void explores the diferent timelines, acting as scouts that will help decide wich timeline must be the true one, giving us information to gide our desitions. Now that the timeline is free to be tempered with, you can establish that nothing before the birth of this infinite dragonflight can be changed, because that would lead to paradoxes, and this way you clad the past of warcraft as unchangable.
I think the rollback is what the bad guy recognized. This is gonna be the event that triggers the Titans being the big bad. Tyr will be resurrected and eventually try to force transformation. Alexstraza will step in regretting letting what happened protodrake eggs.
Thus the Titans begin to agree with sargarus and let him loose
Sargeras*