As a non Mormon I watch these stories and I increasingly cringe at the sinister nature of this purity culture. As a Gay man who struggled with my truth even though my religious upbringing would have frowned upon and excluded homosexuality but not treated it as a mortal sin, I am so thankful that I didn’t grow up in a judgmental environment like this.😳
Wow coming from you a gay person who had to confront judgemental people all your life and still you think this is even more abusive, that says a lot. 😢One would think that religion should be about love but sadly it is about control and money, there was a time, the church I grew up in, would not serve gay people or couples living together. They have changed their view on gay people, fortunately but still frown on couples living together out of wedlock, depends on the area you live in. Some are more lenient than others, to me it is just judgemental and has nothing to do with one's salvation. When a religion blackmail you with your salvation why bother to practice that religion, they create sins and even the Bible's sins are man made in my opinion.
My ex brother in law is gay. To hide it in the Mormon culture he was married to my sister's friend. She died after 6 months of marriage of cancer. My sister helped him get through it and helped her friend go to kemo. They got married so he could continue to hide the fact. You could tell the family warned her. She got married after several affairs with men. His mom passed away he didn't know his father. He came out to my sister after 15 years of marriage and 2 kids. He was one of the first gay men married in Utah. He got married on a float during the gay pride parade in downtown Salt lake City. His kids hate him won't talk to him. They tell their friends he died. Sad all around.
I am non religious born in an Orthodox Christian country and watching this video I cringed too. This cult reminds me of the way people in my country thought about purity 50 -60 years ago and also of Islamic countries.
Not directly related to this, but definitely BYU sports related. I once flew a BYU football charter (I am an airline pilot). On the return flight to Provo, the lead flight attendant came up to the flight deck and was clearly frustrated. She said that everyone was getting angry that we were not carrying alcohol. She said "If they wanted alcohol, why on earth did they request that we not include alcohol in the inflight catering?!"
Did you make this up? My nephew was on the football team and told me that their away games were pretty laid back. He has never seen anyone on the football team consume alcohol or use drug.
@@johnnynez9533 kinda hard to drink when it's literally not available to you. Just because your nephew says he didn't see it, and/or didn't imbibe doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That's second hand conformation bias, and hearsay. In light of the fact that I have first hand experience that it does in FACT happen, I do believe that you were being shined on with 'pretty laid back' being used as a term.
@@johnnynez9533 My teachers in school and most of my peers would also tell you they’ve “never seen (me) drink or do drugs” and they would be absolutely wrong about that. In order to repress my identity and cope with life I became an addict at a young age then also got sober with nobody actually aware of what I was dealing with unless I wanted them to be. Most people are capable of being discreet when consuming most substances at least to a point. Your nephews experience is not only anecdotal but it’s secondhand, he could be lying. Immediately assuming someone is lying about their anecdotal experience because you heard a secondhand anecdotal experience likely from a different year is just a bit foolish to say the least.
I witnessed this double standard first- hand at BYU I my roommate was a student athlete and I saw that the members on the football team lived a completely non-LDS lifestyle, including drinking, using smokeless tobacco, and having sex with their girl friends. Meanwhile, the rest of us students could literally get called in to the dean's office for breaking the honor code because of something as minor as 'taking a test without shaving' during finals week.
That's so insane!! Do you think the Dean and "management" knew about the double standard? Or were they in the dark? I can't get over beards at BYU! Such a ridiculous and petty thing to care about.
@@GH23d7sL45 I should add that beards are not allowed for bishoprics (leader of congregation - sort of like I pastor I think) and above in the church leadership. I have heard of a couple exceptions for some bishops but definitely not any higher. So it would appear that the church sort of frowns on beards.
How can anyone class themselves as good parents when they leave their 10yr,12yr,14yr old daughters and sons alone in a room with an old man knowing full well they're getting asked questions of a sexual nature..that's mental and emotional abuse in my opinion and the most horrid parenting. I'm sorry you had to go through that Kelly.
It’s also horrible parenting to not educate your kids properly on sex. And what molestation is, proper names of body parts not the dumb confusing ones (ie: flower or cookie for vagina) . I think it’s appalling how as a country we’re obsessed with keeping kids safe from predators but we don’t actually teach them about sex, And blow them off when they try to tell us that the weird uncle makes them uncomfortable. 🙄
When I was a whole lot younger, I was at Bar in SLC, with a friend of mine from BYU. As we sat there, you know minding our own business, 3 guys came up to my friend and told him to come with them. I asked my friend what was going on and he said that these guys were from BYU'S Moral Patrol - and that they wanted to talk to him. So, WE went outside with them, and my friend was told that he needed to come back with them to BYU, or he would be expelled from BYU. So, he left with them...I was really ticked off - this was so ridiculous that they would follow people around! A few months later, my friend left BYU - they followed him everywhere....it became so unhealthy that he couldn't deal with it anymore! HE left the church a year later, and his parents have disowned him for leaving the church! And here, I thought the LDS Church was all about the family!!
So is it a masked cult of sorts? Because I’ve experienced that and every little thing that Kelly said is exactly how it is being a Shermanite in Michigan!
Not downplaying Kelly's story but this sexism is everywhere in the church. Women are treated much more harshly for sex "crimes" then men are. I really enjoyed listening to Kelly's story. I'm also glad that MSP is actually talking about the sexism. It seems like a like of Post Mormon men examine their racism but never think to examine their own sexism
This is so outrageous. I am so sorry this is what kept happening. This is a prime example of women constantly being infantalized and taught to be submissive to men. Then so many "submissive" women are abused and violent men are praised. This was not violence but it is totally the go to double standard they always accept from any man Mormon or not. Exactly a hypocritical sham. That is it exactly.
If anyone listening is Mormon, teach your children & this is for your own sanity… NEVER repent, never confess, never tell ANYONE about things you have done or thought about doing (esp anything of a sexual nature) Don’t feel guilt or shame…it is not lying it’s keeping personal things between you and “God”! If I could go back in time, I never would have opened myself up to my bishops and I would have told my kids never share your private life to another person, EVER! Again, it’s not lying, it’s personal and we should not feel shame for natural sexual behaviors.😵💫[Of course, this is me almost 10 years post Mormon, and I do not believe in the religion]🤔
@@China-Clay I know right?! I cringe thinking about some of my one on ones with bishops. Folks my age were taught to ALWAYS go to the bishop if we have problems and to trust them because they are the father of the ward, judge in Israel!
I wish I could have pled the 5th when my parents sent me to the Bishopp when I tried to show the world that is am authentically a girl/woman. I went to school in the 8th grade dressed as the opposite of my gender. The Bishop called me of the devil and evil. I learned the lesson to keep this private until I was 50 years old.
I always told my kids if you don’t want to answer a question they have my blessing to leave the room, I guess is because I am a convert who is now PIMO
To me, this is one of the most powerful and most important Mormon Stories podcast episodes out there. This system ruins lives. Mine almost ended by my own hands because of this system. Thank you Kelly for being so open and honest and vulnerable. I’m in tears
I spent almost every single day, from age 7 to 21, praying multiple times a day for forgiveness for looking at pictures of other guys online, or for sexual thoughts, gay thoughts, or anything like that. It was a tragic childhood, I missed out on so much happiness because I lived in constant self-loathing and sexual shame every day. I'm so glad it's over. The for the strength of youth pamphlet and the whole church needs to be abolished. It fucked my life up. I'm still recovering (22 now) :/ thank you for sharing your story of your childhood, I don't feel so alone in my grief of my childhood.
Me too! I started at 6/7 but just thoughts in my head or playing “doctor” or stuff on tv. I left a comment on here it’s too long to go into detail now but u are not alone in that.
Same, I’m 25 and just beginning to unwind the deeply traumatic shame conditioning of the church. Started struggling with gender identity at 4 or 5, then homosexuality at 12. You are beautiful, powerful and not alone.
I can deeply relate to this. Many years of my life have also been lost to the same amounts of crushing shame and guilt. Shame and guilt for things that are completely natural and okay. The road to recovery is definitely a long one. Mine has had ups and downs but I can say for certain that I am in a much better spot than where I started. Hope your road to recovery is going well @Ryan!
Kelly, if ever you see this, please know that the generosity with which you refer to your parents is indeed proof you are not just a good person, but an awe inspiring one. I really want to ask them ….oh, so many things, but I suppose the most relevant would be, to grab them by the shoulders and shake them and ask, “Do you have any idea of the harm you did, putting the church before your child? Do you have *any idea* of how lucky, indeed how blessed you are she still wants you in her life?” I heard your unwillingness to blame them, and your willingness to assume blame, whilst at the same time, absolving them. I don’t think I’ve been more emotionally engaged with anyone else’s Mormon Story. I’ve wanted to leap through my screen and hug you, so often- and we aren’t even up to the CES letter! For context, I’m a sixty-ish convert of about fifteen years, and I’m pretty much PIMO. Hugs from Australia Later…, I’m not sure I will say this correctly, but…when you are loath to apportion blame to others, just ensure that you aren’t, at the same time, taking on their blame.
3 stories. My co worker (who retired) married a girl long ago. She was raped by a football player at BYU. No one believed her. She left the church and left that campus. She was child prodigy and very young when she attended there. So sad. * I know a girl who went to my high school and she was raped by a guy (a year younger than her) who went to the Mormon church. *And I had a neighbor who was raped by a Mormon guy. She too, left the church. This is all sad. Each girl is sad upon reflecting. How about telling them to stop raping people, then they just go marry some nice girl and have a wonderful life. There are PLENTY of guys who rape girls in other religions as well, but it is truly fascinating that I know of 3 stories from 3 random people. I have no ill will against the church as I was raped by a guy from another denomination. That guy raped another girl and she turned him in. No one believed me. They did believe her, then came back to me. I will watch this video now but had to get this out there.
3:49:13 - Maybe it is because I grew up in the northeast, but I never saw RPI, or RIT, or Cornell questioning whether or not they would be perceived as a good school because they don't have a high profile football team. I don't think anyone looks down on the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, or the University of Chicago because they don't have division 1 athletic programs. Seems like BYU might have an inferiority complex.
We were so lucky with my daughter. Her pediatrician was able to catch that her vaginal opening had a thin layer over it that hadn't opened. He was able to prescribe an ointment the was applied with every diaper change to open it & heal it so that she wouldn't have to have that surgery. I think had she been 10 and had to have that surgery, I would have gotten a female nurse to assist us in teaching her to apply her own ointment. Getting her a mirror or whatever she needed to be sure she could take care of her own body. Goodness, I can't imagine at age 10 having anyone else touch me like that, even if it's for my own good.
And having yearly examinations by dr to decide if it has changed naturally or needs the op, no wonder as a young child she found out that touch there gives a range of sensations. On top of inability to talk about any sexual matters ... then purity culture , toxic mix. Purity culture cripples people even when they keep to that, especially when mixed with ideas that sex is bad, women should not enjoy it but should be fully available to husband and what ever he wants after marriage, I don't know what the US version would be of the victorian advice to women to 'lie back and thing of England' ie suffer it for the sake of the nation
I so agree with you. My daughter is a bit older and I had a female nurse that had young daughters examine her. The mirror thing seems good too. Yeah and no old guys asking to hear sex stories. Some things are woman’s business.
I found Kelly’s story to be enlightening… I dated a student athlete (female) around the same time that Kelly was attending and graduating from BYU. In fact, I believe I lived on the same dorm floor as the athlete she mentioned in her stories my freshman year (if the rumors are true, but who knows). Personally, I’ve come A LONG way since that time. She had grown up much differently than me; she’d grown up in a freer environment that wasn’t as adherent to the church and it’s requirements. I was way more dogmatic, and it caused difficulties in our relationship. This wasn’t the only thing, but the church standards I had been conditioned to accept and trying to fit our relationship in that “box” was the largest thing. I loved this woman, with all of my heart, and when we ultimately broke up for good, it was because I decided that I needed to go “confess my sins” to my bishop and become worthy. These “sins” involved her, and the self-inflicted guilt I was feeling became too much for me at the time. I wanted to become “worthy” to be able to go with my brother to the temple for his endowment. It seems so stupid now, but at the time it was this huge rock and a hard place: the church and my family, or the woman I loved, dated for a few years, and was looking to marry. She was my absolute best friend, so imagine losing someone you talked for countless hours in a relatively short amount of time. If I could do it over again with the knowledge I have now, I would have done it much differently. I get why she was upset now though, and I understand a bit better the fear she felt. She was afraid of being suspended after she had worked so hard and come so far for her career (athletic and educational). In the end, I protected her name and identity 100%, the bishop I talked to happened to be a chill bishop (once again, bishop roulette like Kelly said), and we both graduated just fine. The relationship never really rekindled though, despite my desire for it to over the last few years. If you’ve read this far, I appreciate you so much. Know that you’re a good person, much better than you think. It may seem silly to quote an LDS prophet given the context, but the phrase is solid no matter the source: “You never know how much good you do.” I realize at this point, I need to find someone to talk to about this, but I don’t know where to go…
In my 20s, as a married woman raised Catholic, I was in Salt Lake City for a work conference. I went down to the hotel bar for a drink. I was alone. I recall that they didn't want to serve me a drink. I couldn't comprehend what the deal was. I still don't understand to this day. But I did always attribute it to the Mormon culture... have no idea.
Thank you Kelly for sharing your story. I still live with the sexual shame from my in laws, who have outright stated that I am to blame for everything having to do with my husband not going on a mission, and having a baby out of wedlock. I said, "You do know it takes 2 people to create a baby, right?" They said I was the one to blame because I didn't say no, I should have been spiritually strong enough to deny their "perfect" son. But they LOVE their grandchildren born from us, still to this day they treat me like I'm the evil daughter in law.
All your podcasts have really deeply resonated with me. My family was made up of entirely converts to the church. My sister one year younger than I was labeled as having sexual problems from early childhood all the way up to her adulthood even during her membership in the church. My parents went to our bishop and the bishop said that they should kick her out since she was 18 years old. So they kicked my sister out and she had nowhere to go. Her choice is from then on let her in to a life of transients at times. Eventually she died of a massive drug and alcohol overdose which made it very difficult for my very devout mother to deal with. My mom even wrote a book about my sister’s life and tried to frame the church around many of her beliefs. It was the only hit h related book my mom wrote that wasn’t published. It’s sad because my mom only wanted to help other families that may have gone through similar difficulties. I am so glad, that before my sister passed, glad that earlier in my life when I was in the Institute ward while going to Boise state I saw hypocrisies taking place within the Institute ward and I began to question whether or not some of these things were real. I began to question why loving somebody would be next to murder in the severity of a sin. Before I acted on anything I decided to leave the church much to my parents dismay and heartache. Eventually my parents divorced and my mother remarried and she never stop trying to get me to come back to the church. But as I looked at other religions for many years trying to find a spiritual path that I might follow, I knew that the Mormon church was not the one true church. I began to realize that there was no one true church, no one true religion! Eventually I’ve kept coming around to Buddhism over the course of many years and eventually chose this is my spiritual practice. It’s helped give me a great deal of peace and understanding in my life and even my dad, who kept asking me how did I end up becoming Buddhist, stopped asking me because he said it didn’t matter to him anymore because I was such a good person and that was the most important thing to him. Thank you for doing these podcasts.
In 2017, as an exmo myself, I packed up my 18 y.o. son (we live in IN) and sent him to live in the Provo area to work and live near family. First, we had to look for non BYU housing since we knew that he wouldn't be interested in the full on BYU lifestyle. He landed in Orem and for a long time it was a great experience for a young kid living away from home. He met a young lady who was a BYU grad student from Canada. It's my understanding that they became intimate, and then she was consumed with guilt. I told her not to confess, only because I felt like she was equipped to work through her guilt in therapy and prayer. I had a feeling what the outcome would be. She spoke to her bishop, and he relayed her confession to BYU. She was on a flight home one day after the end of the semester as her student visa was terminated. The whole thing gave me whiplash, and I didn't even know what to say to my son. I'm still in disbelief and wonder if she was really sent back to Canada due to confessing to her bishop. Could I be missing something? I wish I could know for sure.
Go Kelly! I am so proud of you for coming clean on a public forum. I was raised Mormon. And I had to talk to my Bishop because I had a baby at 17 years old.
Oh jeez. When I was at BYU (only stayed for one year) the student athletes damn near got away with murder. Property damage, threats to other students, sex, assault/battery, being drunk on campus, it didn't matter. The worst punishment I saw was a year of probation and some small fines.
Kelly, I want to thank you for being so open and vulnerable while you shared confidential experiences from your life I have always felt like I was on the outside of Mormonism and you made me feel and realize I am just fine in the hands of God regardless of faults or beliefs. I grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin and was converted to Mormonism in my youth. The Church is very different outside Utah. I have watched MS for several years. What I appreciate about the more recent "Stories" is that they ring very true to everyday ordinary LDS members.
I relate to the family choosing their religion over me so much. My mother would rather kick me out of the house when she knows my mental health disorders would probably lead to my death, than let me say or do anything contrary to mormonism. It's not love. It's a duty she thinks is love.
I had the “I would rather u were un-alive” and taken out of her will. She also took back my sister’s bail money when she found out she was a lesbian. So literally sent her to jail for being gay. I’m sorry u went thru that and completely understand. You’re not alone
I am so glad my parents never raised me in a high demand religion. I was brought up to be kind, honest, and hard working and our family never really needed a religion to go by. Kelly you are a fantastic and beautiful human being that deserves all the success in the world. I wish i could meet someone half as good as you are in my life.
I'm a former BYU athlete. BYU is the least Christian campus in America. "During my time", BYU viewed male students as sexual predators. But Why? Because they saw females as weak and vulnerable, which exposes how little they thought of women. Now, maybe it has changed since then because I am hearing about more female students getting booted. Moronic justification: "But, but, but, he/she signed the honor code"! News flash: Everyone makes mistakes, especially mistakes that are highly tempting. Regardless of what they claim, forgiveness is not practiced. Penitence, shame, humiliation, public scrutiny and the false doctrine of retribution is stressed. The real fools are the people who blindly swallow the BS that they feed.
Kelly, so sorry for the shame and hurt you have suffered throughout your life because of normal healthy behavior. I know that by talking about it people will be helped. Sharing this personal story is courageous and heroic!
Part of the tragedy of this story is how the misinterpretation of Alma 39 was weaponized to harm Kelly. The sin next to murder is not sexual sin! Alma hardly mentions sexual sin to Corianton. It was his abandonment of the ministry and the fact that he caused so many of the Zoramites to not listen to Alma, et al that was the problem. Remember, in Mosiah and in Alma 36, Alma considers his efforts to lead people out of the church as tantamount to murder. This false tradition that sexual sin is next to murder in severity is damaging and weakens the LDS movement.
I would highly recommend The Hunting Ground a documentary on women who are raped on college campus and the perpetrator is not suspended. This is not just a Mormon story but a woman’s story
I support Kelly telling her story. Am not to fond of the gossipy nature of some related experiences. I am a former member and huge advocate for change. Each story must come from the SOURCE. In that manner we can heal. Sending LOVE to this woman. As a Utah Alumn I will always think BYU is BS!!! Good job Carah.
I've just found these podcasts. So powerful. I was born & raised Mormon to 2 BYU athletes...lived the first years of my life at Wymount Terrace- then married student housing at BYU. My dad played basketball in the early 60s at BYU. My entire family is no longer LDS. My dad tells stories of being a young convert to the church at age 17, going to BYU and seeing players drink and go outside the code of conduct very often. He was benched his freshman year for telling on others. He ended up quitting because he was one that did not buy into the code of silence. My sister, a swimmer at BYU, tried LSD for the first time in the dorms at BYU and also left her D1 scholarship during her freshman year. It is so heartbreaking to see these young people battle & go through such spiritual struggles that I experienced too. What I've discovered is there is only grace and forgiveness in what Jesus did on the cross for every human being. I do not conform to any church Institution but only to biblical truth in Christ alone. That is very freeing for me. Currently the LDS church is trying to preach a similar message of Grace and forgiveness, however until they become honest about their true doctrine, many more will leave the church.
As a high schooler going to byu in the near future, this has been so helpful as it gives me signs for what to look out for. Thx for these amazing videos every time John and Carah 💞💞
BYU is a crazy jungle of weird behavior especially when it comes to the curfew , everything closes down at BYUI at a certain time and its ridiculous. Got to Community College to get your General education credits then save money going to an instate college . I went to Ensign college and many people are lying about keeping the honor Code other people are too at BYU .
"Remind me what we are working through?" - wow!! Unbelievable!! He is going to judge your worthiness and he clearly hasn't been thinking about it or praying about it. He holds your membership in his hands and he can't be troubled to remember? 🤦♂️ Messed up for so many reasons!!
Thank you for sharing your story! Very brave. I didn't grow up mormon, but have always been drawn to the religion in terms of intrigue. They do a great job painting that perfect family life picture, so much so that I, as a completely non religious person, considered raising my future kids with similar principles. As an adult (and mom) today, I'm horrified by the impact these teachings marr children with, and for the rest of their lives. Mormonism, in a lot of ways, is that wolf in sheep's clothing they warn about.
I loved the discussion in regards to one's relationship with religion/the Church, this comment hit me ... "I no longer need it. I no longer need them." So powerful! I also loved the conversation around anger. We tend to shun anger as "bad" or a "waste of energy." But I loved how Kelly embraces anger as a source of energy and motivation! She's careful to not let it be a source of self-destruction, nor let it define her.
Kelly, you are smart, articulate, lovely inside and out, and as “normal” as any human being ever was. You SO belong in this world. I’m sorry that you were traumatized by people with ridiculously ABnormal expectations and cruel behavior. My family would welcome you with arms!
I also hate how many churches make you feel less than if you choose not to have children. I have mental health issues, especially anxiety, specifically medical anxiety but also PTSD. I didn't want to pass my issues or put these issues onto a child. My husband also never wanted kids. However, being Catholic, everyone assumed we couldn't have kids and kept telling us they were sorry and praying for us etc. It was not acceptable to say we just didn't want kids. I taught preschool with my whole heart and fully devoted myself to teaching and gave if myself in that way. My husband and I also volunteer a lot. People need to realize there are ways to contribute without having kids.
I have just recently started watching this channel. As a former member, it is overwhelming at times how powerful these soul-killing messages were. I thought at times it was just me as a convert who needed “extra help” to get it straight. These discussions are LONG. I am emotionally tired sometimes after listening. I can only imagine how exhausted Kelly must have been after reviewing all of these heavy feelings for hours. I am very appreciative of all that share their stories. You are helping others to find freedom.
Any time a pelvic exam is being done in a doctor's office, the physician should have a female chaperone . Whenever a child is being interviewed in a criminal investigation, there is an advocate in the room. I would hope that whenever anyone is being questioned by a church official that a second person is in the room. If not done now, they should change their policies ASAP.
I’m only 1/4 of the way through this and it’s already so traumatizing. What a sick, twisted culture in which we grew up! My heart breaks for Kelly and for everyone else who suffered as a result. Growing up as a gay Mormon boy trying desperately to fit inside of the prescribed “acceptable behavior and thought box” was nearly unbearable, and all of that collective trauma was completely unnecessary. Still, as bad as it was, it wasn’t Utah - for which I will be forever grateful. Kelly’s dreadful Stepford ward experiences make me shudder. Carah did a wonderful job during this interview. I’m so glad she was there.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm still healing from my experience growing up in Utah and being LDS. You reminded me of so much and helped me put it to rest.
This idea of sexual reactivity is an interesting one. Having had sexual encounters when I was very young that I hesitate to label definitively as abuse because they were not coercive or violent and I viewed them with a certain curiosity and subsequently becoming a lifetime masturbator from then on, I can absolutely relate to what Kelly is saying. Hearing about the "I'm clean now because I just got baptized" part was especially poignant. I was always terrified of being found out and would avoid the bishop and most people generally. I have a few journal entries just like the one Kelly mentions. Hyper-religiosity to compensate for masturbation is describing me. I can absolutely echo her sentiments about never feeling like a person who belonged anywhere. Also: this is why I hate professional/college sports. The Church making people feel flawed while itself being riddled with flaws sounds like projecting. Thank you so much, Kelly, for your honesty, vulnerability, candidness and anger.
What hurts me the most with this interview is seeing how much Kelly still appears to beat up herself over the past? Kelly, if you ever read this - all I personally see is an incredibly honest, strong, powerful and loving person. With the wise, learning is never lost
I love Carah! Wish I could be friends with her, she seems so fun to hang out with! Amazing episode as usual. I continue to be shocked by how much trauma and suffering the Mormon culture causes for people over literally non-issues! So frustratingly heartbreaking 💔
I’m about 1/3 of the way through Kelly’s story. I cannot begin to fathom the guilt and shame imposed on her. I was lds, served a mission, went to BYU (one year only, the subculture was more than I could deal with, the facades and hypocrisy specifically) married in the temple, etc. I left, resigning my membership back in the ‘90s. I’m quite familiar with the church’s practice of not being responsible for what it does to members who don’t measure up. I’m familiar with how the church tends to shoot it’s wounded. I’ve never actually heard the entire history of someone who endured all of this to the degree that Kelly has. I’m appalled that she was labeled a sex addict by someone who had no business making such a diagnosis. I’m a health care provider and while mental health is not my specialty, there’s so much crossover in the nature of my profession, I know enough to refer my patients out to a provider dedicated to mental health when something like sex addiction is a possibility. As to her parents sending her off to the bishop every time she transgressed some mormon moral boundary…that’s just bad parenting. I know they felt like they were doing what the church directed, on some level they were passing the buck. I bet it was a lot easier to refer her to the bishop than have the kind of in-depth discussions that should have happened. My children were born post mormon and I’m grateful that they were raised without all the baggage that mormon kids are. I pray for Kelly that she continues to heal and have a joy filled life and finds real truth on her journey.
Agreed on her parents passing on the responsibility. It’s clear she loves them and doesn’t want to talk bad about here listens but it’s seems like they didn’t know what to do so they chose to do nothing.
Early in this interview I was left speechless when Kelly relayed how her mother forced her to go to the bishop to deal with the problem. I am absolutely astonished that a person who claims to be a loving mother can be so completely devoid of any sense of humanity. John Streeter provides an excellent TOTAS disussion on this very subject called "Lies that Blind." He points out how life members of uber controlling religions like Mormonism that are under the influence of a myth of men having special power, never learned to deal with complex personal and moral issues, life’s uncertainties and life’s contradictions. By always deferring to a higher moral authority like prayer, scripture, clergy etc, they never exercise and develop their inner conscience and personal moral authority and agency. Working through complex issues beginning with first principles has been surrendered to the authorities and thus never developed. This is, or at least was, Kelly's mother.
@@China-Clay I appreciate your compassion and sympathy, but I just can't accept this. If one believes in the intrinsic human nature of mankind as described by English/Scottish enlightenment people like Adam Smith and David Hume, as I do, then this person consciously and willfully allowed a religious dogma to upstage her empathy, more egregiously considering this is her daughter. There were and always have been better options than humiliation of a child, again, especially ones own.
The general idea of an honor code doesn't bother me because it IS a private school and students DID agree to it. What does bother me is the sickening double standard. Pick a freaking lane, BYU. 🤬
You are a beautiful, perfect and Divine Soul Kelly - you are responsible for no one but YOU- ever - you were born worthy - more than good enough - and you came to experience Love & Joy! It’s overwhelming to hear what you have been through- what a powerful, brave and strong woman you are!
Amazing interview. Like Cara says I think this is one of the most vulnerable interviews Mormon stories has done so far. I have a lot more of them to watch though. :) Thank you Kelly.
This is an important interview. So very important. And it’s brave to do this. Thank you so much for doing this, for being so vulnerable. Hopefully it will help others to avoid some of the carnage of purity culture. Never-Mormons can learn the damage of Mormon purity culture. It damages BOTH men and women. Which damages families. Which damages communities & society. There’s a reason why enemies of the US encourage & promote divisive religious rhetoric, and religion in general, on social medias. There’s a reason enemies of the US told Manafort to get Pence as VP-purity culture damages & weakens society. There are hundreds of thousands of Americans with stories like this. Hundreds of thousands of families ruined. In a multi-pronged attack, religious rhetoric is used.
Everyone, enemies, allies & neutrals. Family Watch Int., a US Christian org, was founded by a Mormon-Sharon Slater. FWI & other Christian fundies have poured $50 million + into teaching politicians from all across Africa how to campaign against sex education & LGBT rights. Even helping make it legal to murder 🏳️🌈 people, something they long to do in the US. They’ve made no secret of this.
This is such a powerful episode. As an exvangelical, the story of Kelly's childhood and teen years was eerily similar (aside from the surgery). So much shame and despair surrounding this perfectly normal part of being human. I hope Kelly continues to heal and grow, and recognize how brave and incredible she is to speak out about this.
Kelly so sorry you went through this trauma as a little girl❤️ I think many of us were not educated about our body or our sexuality. We were shamed for natural sensations and calling it sin.😕
From a non Mormon, this is the best and most disturbing podcast yet. I hurt for Kelly and wish her all the best in her recovery from this life of shame. She is a great human being and I hope everything works out for her. Live your life. Be kind. And be happy. This is truly awful. Take care of yourself, Kelly.
At around 55 minutes, when she is talking about sex education something really hit home. When my parents originally told me about sex, they told me practically the same thing. I believed that you were ~only~ supposed to have sex for reproduction, and I've almost always been scared of having kids, so I told myself that I would never have sex because I didn't want my body to go through pregnancy. Now I'm a lesbian, so that's no worry now lol
I have spent hours and hours watching your channel John. Thank you. I have many reasons, but mainly I want to understand it, be able to state why I could never follow this doctrine, but mainly for mercy and grace when listening to several people in my life. I know they do not know all of the things that come out over and over again. This young woman was wonderful. I am so glad to have found this story. Totally open minded, willing to suffer the pain in order to change and grow, and so forgiving. Few of us are as brave, Kelly. Heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time. Thank you.
My heart hurts for Kelly as I was raised in a part time member family as my birth mom didn't drive and my biological father did but was a trucker .She had some bad experiences of Bishop russian roulette and it destroyed our family and my moms ability to walk away from gaslighting and emotional abuse as this was in Utah. When I went to The LDS Business College I knew my roommate was not living the honor code. I tried to pursued her to live better and to do better to protect herself from guys who took advantage of her as she ,like Kelly had this need to be accepted and loved I told her she didn't need that approval from others into the jack mormon group but she craved it so bad. I also had a hard time fitting in the church culture especially in UT of fitting in as I don't believe just and loving God who is the same today yeater and tomorrow would treat people in such a terrible un Christlike way . There are so many hypocrites in the Church who should mind their own business. My best friends I've met at church are the best most kind and open minded member and I am grateful they are my friends , and they are few. I now am jaded after a bishop wouldn't let me do my calling as the lord was guiding me and he can't answer my questions . I go to church with a jaded sense of who is speaking with the spirit and who is just standing there like a dead fish . After my Brother left I have a hard time with some topics in the church. Temple ordinances changing , racism in the church after Joseph Smith's Death . I pray and ask God because no one will answer my questions , not even about the temple with the stitck "sacred not secret" I am a person who has been faithful and has her heart with God yet no one talks to me about the temple . I feel frustrated constantly so I take everything with a grain of salt when I go to church honestly.
I’ve never been Mormon, I do have a Mormon story of my own, but every time I hear these stories when the person relates how they felt/feel when they discover it’s all been a lie, I feel a kick in the gut for you over the betrayal that finding out it’s all been a lie. Kelly’s discovery has been so recent that it hurt me that the Mormon “church” hurt her so badly and caused so much damage. Just know that there are so many people that hurt with you and pray ( yes pray) that you heal. Kelly, you never know, your parents may someday reach the point of “knowing” too and they will be hurting like you are.
I relate to many of the themes of your life, Kelly. The blame, the shaming, the over-reaction by parents, leaders, the shunning is all based on a unrealistic code that only damages all it touches. We have so much to overcome.
Big Love to Kelly. Amazing that she found her own mind and clarity while still in her 20's. Took me til my 50's. I feel her pain, viscerally. I will never forget the day I realized that the church was more of a Burden than a blessing. Devastating. At this point, I believe it's absolutely abusive on so many levels.
Kelly, thank you for your honesty and vulnerability. I relate to a lot of what you have said. I’m sorry you were so shamed at such a young age. Also, I’m really happy to hear you say there is absolutely no excuse for cheating on a spouse. I wish our society would recognize this. So often infidelity gets blamed on the spouse who was the victim of infidelity. They were “too this” or they “weren’t enough that.” This narrative must change. Infidelity is abuse. The gaslighting and emotional neglect alone is enough to quality as abuse, not to mention putting the unknowing spouse’s physical health at risk.
She gave reasons why she cheated. I'm not impressed. It was selfish of her and undisciplined. Cheating is a choice. I was cheated on by my wife when she was pregnant and it caused me a LOT of pain. If you're not going to be faithful then discuss that with the person you made commitments with, and/or get a divorce. Otherwise you're living a lie. And it's abusive to the faithful spouse. My wife was miserable to live with when she was cheating cause she was angry all the time (with herself) and took it out on me. Treated me as if the marriage was dead, believing she had already killed it with her actions and I just didn't know it yet. Imagine her surprise when I was willing to forgive and love her through it. Oh, but people who are dishonest and selfish don't just change so quickly like that. Divorce had to happen because this person was ingrained with disregard for boundaries. When this Kelly girl interviewee said she cheated on her husband and I yelled at my screen "You bitch!" 😅😅 Yes, the Church imposes arbitrary rules but her story is one of repeated lack of discipline, bringing misery on herself. ...Went to BYU knowing the rules and couldn't last two months without breaking the most serious of them. Got married and then broke the most cardinal rule, again. ...Hurting other people along the way. No wonder people don't trust you. You're not trustworthy. But hey, we all have our flaws. And she's painfully aware of hers. For me, if I'm with a girl who I know has religious standards then I don't take her past her own boundaries, out of respect for her, because I have the discipline and presence of mind to do so. If I want to go further with someone then I'll find someone else who I'm not going to put into a corner and break their moral code giving them regret. Take responsibility for how your actions affect others. And really, if you have a moral code, then live by it till you otherwise change it. It is possible. I did it. It can be done. Congrats on breaking free of religious lies that bound you 👏 End rant
One of my all-time favorite MSP episodes ever. Massive kudos to Kelly and Carah for openly discussing healthy sexuality, and for condemning tscc’s harmful and toxic doctrines and policies on sexuality. Especially great to get women’s experiences and perspectives on this topic.
As a child of Catholic perfectionistic parents, much of what they were taught in the church was based on fear. If you didn’t do XYZ, then you will burn in hell for eternity. Even though you are taught about forgiveness, it was like it didn’t count. Sex was not talked about in our home. It was like it didn’t exist. Everything on the outside had to be perfect (perfect home, children, etc) because everything INSIDE of them was very messy. It’s a hard way to live. I fell very short. Watching this podcast brings up many emotions for me. Sadness, depression, anger, and relief that I don’t live that life anymore. My children have never experienced this hard life either.
Thank you for being so brave and courageous to speak out about the natural process of sexuality that gets distorted with this church that wants all control over sexuality. I was raised Mormon in Ireland and abused by my father, who thought he should be the master of my sexuality at 13. I lived all the experiences you talked about when I came to America and would go to the bishop and confess my sin of masterbation . They would want more detail than was needed, yet the bishops son stood outside waiting to give me a ride home and he told his son to stay away from me and wouldn’t let him drive me home.
That’s a cop out to have a pass at being a crappy person for the rest of your life. Healing from your past includes being a mature adult capable of having a discussion. She still has a long way to go.
I'm not LDS. I'm an outsider thinking about Kelly's story as though she was a non Mormon. She comes across as someone with an unhealthy relationship with sex...like sexual narcissism. She seems like she has an insatiable need for validation and discovered somewhere along the way using her sexuality provided her a steady source. The Mormon church just conflates the mental health issue. This was hard to watch and honestly, makes me wonder about its usefulness as a resource to people struggling with their faith.
I had a very similar experience! I was caught at age 5 or 6 masturbating and was told I couldn’t go to the temple if I did that. I was so confused by why and how... so I got really good at hiding it.
I hope this woman is continuing her healing journey. There is so much evident pain still T here - understandably so. As a side note, I am not Mormon and find these podcasts fascinatingly disturbing. I have noticed a couple of things in the many of these podcasts: 1. Humor seems to be an automatic default to minimize and “cope” with their pain, including smiling as one talks about enormous pain - so incongruent. To me, it says it’s a way to unconsciously deny or minimize - no judgment at all on my part at all! 2. There seems to be such a need to still “forgive, understand and give the benefit of the doubt” … despite what happened or how one was treated. How about righteous anger … to let oneself feel and be truly angry BEFORE going into forgiveness, etc. I had a very amazing therapist who helped me with this issue because I would say … “I know my parents loved me, but ….” And he would say/ask … “what did that love actually look like?” Wow! Life changing! The other really incredibly helpful thing my therapist shared with me that opened my heart and mind and changed me forever - he encouraged me to ask myself: “what do I have to prove … and to who … and why?” Truly, truly changed my entire life! I wish everyone here all the best!
I think I’m going to have to watch this in bits. I want so much to comfort her but also, at 53minutes, I’m fighting back tears and I have a hunch it won’t be the last time.
2:12:40 I had this one counselor ask me if I had a boyfriend. I told him no. (I had a weird long-distance situationship going on, so I got a little nervous) He said I seemed like the kind of person who would have a secret boyfriend. I hated that man. And after getting to know his children, I realized they didn't like him either.
I absolutely loved listening to this! Thank you for telling your story I could relate on so many levels! Keep living your truth and being who you really are!
While he himself had an affair with a 14 year old in a barn... poor Fanny. Course being caught prompted him to marry her soon after but those are details TBMs don't care to know.
@@MustangWriter That particular expression comes from a scripture in the Mormon church. Anyone familiar knows of it. I’m talking about Alma 39:5. Take your nasty comment and stick it up your nose along with the other things you find on the floor. Yea how do you like being talked down to? It doesn’t feel very good does it? No. So stop that or at least know what’s going on.
@@MustangWriter nothing to say so straight to the personal attacks which aren’t even relevant. I was a member of the Mormon cult. Do you know what a Mormon is? Have you heard of seminary? Study up and come back with you actually something valuable to say. Sin next to murder comes from a scripture in the BOM.
@@MustangWriter ew what kind of Joe Smith act is this? Ya I’ll bet you are around a lot of sexually starved women. But I don’t blame her. If I lived in your house Id rather to go without too. Shut up already it’s embarrassing.
I'm so glad I dont live in Utah anymore. I went to school out there for 4 years and that was it....life is better far from mormonisn physically and mentally.
Hearing these Mormon stores just fills me with so much anger. I hadn’t even realized how much rage I have inside about the church. Bishops should NEVER be listening to, much less demanding, member confessions. They aren’t qualified to give therapy, whether it be personal, marital, child, sexual, or anything else. If someone chooses to go to the bishop with a spiritual crisis then it would be appropriate, but a lot of them can’t even do that right. I feel so badly for her. I’m lucky I got out when I was a teen. They’d have destroyed me if I hadn’t.
Thanks for another great podcast. I related to so much of what she experienced and some things I hadn’t processed or realized were a problem before she addressed them. And that’s after being out of the church for 16 yrs at 72 yrs old. But time for reflecting and assessing old pent up frustrations and long standing quilt
The church will ALWAYS blame the woman, put the responsibility of sin on the woman. My mom was a 24 year old virgin who was engaged to my 31 year old previously married father and she was told SHE was responsible for them breaking the law of chastity because she was tempting. I was floored when I processed that one a few years ago.
For a church who was build on polygamy and creating members between the sheets, they sure have a strange view on sexuality. It's such a private topic, why would they ever want to know about their members relations, I find it perverse, purity culture or not.🤢
It breaks my heart to hear her say no one had ever told her she was a good person until she was 17 years old. 😭
Thats because she lied her ass off completely about it
@@getdownto311 , your comment is false, mean and clueless.
@@getdownto311 grow up
@@getdownto311 Overflowing with compassion and understanding.
@@getdownto311 Go have another glass of purple cool aid.
As a non Mormon I watch these stories and I increasingly cringe at the sinister nature of this purity culture. As a Gay man who struggled with my truth even though my religious upbringing would have frowned upon and excluded homosexuality but not treated it as a mortal sin, I am so thankful that I didn’t grow up in a judgmental environment like this.😳
agreed
Wow coming from you a gay person who had to confront judgemental people all your life and still you think this is even more abusive, that says a lot. 😢One would think that religion should be about love but sadly it is about control and money, there was a time, the church I grew up in, would not serve gay people or couples living together. They have changed their view on gay people, fortunately but still frown on couples living together out of wedlock, depends on the area you live in. Some are more lenient than others, to me it is just judgemental and has nothing to do with one's salvation. When a religion blackmail you with your salvation why bother to practice that religion, they create sins and even the Bible's sins are man made in my opinion.
So true! This is so eye-opening for me a non-mormon, rather loose catholic. I'm happy my parents were never devoted.
My ex brother in law is gay. To hide it in the Mormon culture he was married to my sister's friend. She died after 6 months of marriage of cancer. My sister helped him get through it and helped her friend go to kemo. They got married so he could continue to hide the fact. You could tell the family warned her. She got married after several affairs with men. His mom passed away he didn't know his father. He came out to my sister after 15 years of marriage and 2 kids. He was one of the first gay men married in Utah. He got married on a float during the gay pride parade in downtown Salt lake City. His kids hate him won't talk to him. They tell their friends he died. Sad all around.
I am non religious born in an Orthodox Christian country and watching this video I cringed too. This cult reminds me of the way people in my country thought about purity 50 -60 years ago and also of Islamic countries.
Not directly related to this, but definitely BYU sports related. I once flew a BYU football charter (I am an airline pilot). On the return flight to Provo, the lead flight attendant came up to the flight deck and was clearly frustrated. She said that everyone was getting angry that we were not carrying alcohol. She said "If they wanted alcohol, why on earth did they request that we not include alcohol in the inflight catering?!"
What a lie!
@@MaximusUbU How would you know? Were you there? Now, don't lie. That would be bearing false witness.
Did you make this up? My nephew was on the football team and told me that their away games were pretty laid back. He has never seen anyone on the football team consume alcohol or use drug.
@@johnnynez9533 kinda hard to drink when it's literally not available to you. Just because your nephew says he didn't see it, and/or didn't imbibe doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That's second hand conformation bias, and hearsay. In light of the fact that I have first hand experience that it does in FACT happen, I do believe that you were being shined on with 'pretty laid back' being used as a term.
@@johnnynez9533 My teachers in school and most of my peers would also tell you they’ve “never seen (me) drink or do drugs” and they would be absolutely wrong about that. In order to repress my identity and cope with life I became an addict at a young age then also got sober with nobody actually aware of what I was dealing with unless I wanted them to be. Most people are capable of being discreet when consuming most substances at least to a point. Your nephews experience is not only anecdotal but it’s secondhand, he could be lying. Immediately assuming someone is lying about their anecdotal experience because you heard a secondhand anecdotal experience likely from a different year is just a bit foolish to say the least.
I witnessed this double standard first- hand at BYU I my roommate was a student athlete and I saw that the members on the football team lived a completely non-LDS lifestyle, including drinking, using smokeless tobacco, and having sex with their girl friends. Meanwhile, the rest of us students could literally get called in to the dean's office for breaking the honor code because of something as minor as 'taking a test without shaving' during finals week.
That's so insane!! Do you think the Dean and "management" knew about the double standard? Or were they in the dark? I can't get over beards at BYU! Such a ridiculous and petty thing to care about.
@@GH23d7sL45 you can have a beard as a member, it is just BYU that doesn't allow beards
I know one BYU student got around the no-beard rule by being in a Church movie where beards are magically ok again.
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz its a hold over from the anti hippy movement of BYU of the 70's
@@GH23d7sL45 I should add that beards are not allowed for bishoprics (leader of congregation - sort of like I pastor I think) and above in the church leadership. I have heard of a couple exceptions for some bishops but definitely not any higher. So it would appear that the church sort of frowns on beards.
How can anyone class themselves as good parents when they leave their 10yr,12yr,14yr old daughters and sons alone in a room with an old man knowing full well they're getting asked questions of a sexual nature..that's mental and emotional abuse in my opinion and the most horrid parenting. I'm sorry you had to go through that Kelly.
It’s also horrible parenting to not educate your kids properly on sex. And what molestation is, proper names of body parts not the dumb confusing ones (ie: flower or cookie for vagina) . I think it’s appalling how as a country we’re obsessed with keeping kids safe from predators but we don’t actually teach them about sex, And blow them off when they try to tell us that the weird uncle makes them uncomfortable. 🙄
When I was a whole lot younger, I was at Bar in SLC, with a friend of mine from BYU. As we sat there, you know minding our own business, 3 guys came up to my friend and told him to come with them. I asked my friend what was going on and he said that these guys were from BYU'S Moral Patrol - and that they wanted to talk to him. So, WE went outside with them, and my friend was told that he needed to come back with them to BYU, or he would be expelled from BYU. So, he left with them...I was really ticked off - this was so ridiculous that they would follow people around! A few months later, my friend left BYU - they followed him everywhere....it became so unhealthy that he couldn't deal with it anymore! HE left the church a year later, and his parents have disowned him for leaving the church! And here, I thought the LDS Church was all about the family!!
Can you just tell me what 'BYU' is?
Thanks
@@charlespalmer5014 thank you
@@katrinamackenzie8789 Brigham young university
Christian Taliban
So is it a masked cult of sorts? Because I’ve experienced that and every little thing that Kelly said is exactly how it is being a Shermanite in Michigan!
Not downplaying Kelly's story but this sexism is everywhere in the church. Women are treated much more harshly for sex "crimes" then men are. I really enjoyed listening to Kelly's story. I'm also glad that MSP is actually talking about the sexism. It seems like a like of Post Mormon men examine their racism but never think to examine their own sexism
Wow! You make a lot of assumptions. Ignorant much?
Heal by trashing BYU and the church? Nice! You knew and agreed to the rules before attending the school. No excuses.
@@rationalmale6265 you obviously didn’t watch this video.
@@rationalmale6265 the church trashed us
@@ethanmaxwell4424 victim mentality much? Grow up. No one is perfect in life including the church.
Kelly, you are an inspiration to me. I'm non-Mormon who enjoys ExMo content. What authenticity and courage!! Keep speaking your truth.
One of the best MSP with a person that has left and was traumatized by the church. Thank you Kelly. Great job Cara. Nod to John for letting Cara run.
This is so outrageous. I am so sorry this is what kept happening. This is a prime example of women constantly being infantalized and taught to be submissive to men. Then so many "submissive" women are abused and violent men are praised. This was not violence but it is totally the go to double standard they always accept from any man Mormon or not. Exactly a hypocritical sham. That is it exactly.
If anyone listening is Mormon, teach your children & this is for your own sanity… NEVER repent, never confess, never tell ANYONE about things you have done or thought about doing (esp anything of a sexual nature) Don’t feel guilt or shame…it is not lying it’s keeping personal things between you and “God”! If I could go back in time, I never would have opened myself up to my bishops and I would have told my kids never share your private life to another person, EVER! Again, it’s not lying, it’s personal and we should not feel shame for natural sexual behaviors.😵💫[Of course, this is me almost 10 years post Mormon, and I do not believe in the religion]🤔
@@China-Clay I know right?! I cringe thinking about some of my one on ones with bishops. Folks my age were taught to ALWAYS go to the bishop if we have problems and to trust them because they are the father of the ward, judge in Israel!
I wish I could have pled the 5th when my parents sent me to the Bishopp when I tried to show the world that is am authentically a girl/woman. I went to school in the 8th grade dressed as the opposite of my gender. The Bishop called me of the devil and evil. I learned the lesson to keep this private until I was 50 years old.
I always told my kids if you don’t want to answer a question they have my blessing to leave the room, I guess is because I am a convert who is now PIMO
@@bobbieangel9830 I’m happy you are living authentically and true you.❤️
@@marachristensen8523 what is PIMO?
I'm glad I didn't go to BYU. What a snake pit!
I’m dying at Carah saying that married Mormons should role play as teenagers breaking the law of chastity😭😭😭
You’re dying? I said it! I’m dying. Why why why. Please kill me 💀
@@CarahBurrell so funny!
To me, this is one of the most powerful and most important Mormon Stories podcast episodes out there. This system ruins lives. Mine almost ended by my own hands because of this system. Thank you Kelly for being so open and honest and vulnerable. I’m in tears
I spent almost every single day, from age 7 to 21, praying multiple times a day for forgiveness for looking at pictures of other guys online, or for sexual thoughts, gay thoughts, or anything like that. It was a tragic childhood, I missed out on so much happiness because I lived in constant self-loathing and sexual shame every day. I'm so glad it's over. The for the strength of youth pamphlet and the whole church needs to be abolished. It fucked my life up. I'm still recovering (22 now) :/ thank you for sharing your story of your childhood, I don't feel so alone in my grief of my childhood.
Me too! I started at 6/7 but just thoughts in my head or playing “doctor” or stuff on tv. I left a comment on here it’s too long to go into detail now but u are not alone in that.
You are not alone ❤️
Same, I’m 25 and just beginning to unwind the deeply traumatic shame conditioning of the church. Started struggling with gender identity at 4 or 5, then homosexuality at 12. You are beautiful, powerful and not alone.
I can deeply relate to this. Many years of my life have also been lost to the same amounts of crushing shame and guilt. Shame and guilt for things that are completely natural and okay. The road to recovery is definitely a long one. Mine has had ups and downs but I can say for certain that I am in a much better spot than where I started. Hope your road to recovery is going well @Ryan!
Priesthood session of conference was a nightmare
Kelly, if ever you see this, please know that the generosity with which you refer to your parents is indeed proof you are not just a good person, but an awe inspiring one. I really want to ask them ….oh, so many things, but I suppose the most relevant would be, to grab them by the shoulders and shake them and ask, “Do you have any idea of the harm you did, putting the church before your child? Do you have *any idea* of how lucky, indeed how blessed you are she still wants you in her life?”
I heard your unwillingness to blame them, and your willingness to assume blame, whilst at the same time, absolving them.
I don’t think I’ve been more emotionally engaged with anyone else’s Mormon Story. I’ve wanted to leap through my screen and hug you, so often- and we aren’t even up to the CES letter!
For context, I’m a sixty-ish convert of about fifteen years, and I’m pretty much PIMO.
Hugs from Australia
Later…, I’m not sure I will say this correctly, but…when you are loath to apportion blame to others, just ensure that you aren’t, at the same time, taking on their blame.
Sorry for the down voters who wish issues like this would be kept swept under the rug. Thanks to Kelly for bringing reality out in the open.
What a horrible, mentally damaging cult! 😡 Kelly’s grief muscle is seen so often. The Behavior Panelists taught me this.
Well I had never heard of the grief muscle before and that sent me down an interesting lesson! Explains a lot!
3 stories. My co worker (who retired) married a girl long ago. She was raped by a football player at BYU. No one believed her. She left the church and left that campus. She was child prodigy and very young when she attended there. So sad. * I know a girl who went to my high school and she was raped by a guy (a year younger than her) who went to the Mormon church. *And I had a neighbor who was raped by a Mormon guy. She too, left the church. This is all sad. Each girl is sad upon reflecting. How about telling them to stop raping people, then they just go marry some nice girl and have a wonderful life. There are PLENTY of guys who rape girls in other religions as well, but it is truly fascinating that I know of 3 stories from 3 random people. I have no ill will against the church as I was raped by a guy from another denomination. That guy raped another girl and she turned him in. No one believed me. They did believe her, then came back to me. I will watch this video now but had to get this out there.
3:49:13 - Maybe it is because I grew up in the northeast, but I never saw RPI, or RIT, or Cornell questioning whether or not they would be perceived as a good school because they don't have a high profile football team. I don't think anyone looks down on the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, or the University of Chicago because they don't have division 1 athletic programs. Seems like BYU might have an inferiority complex.
Most relatable Mormon Story for me yet. Thanks for your courage to speak out Kelly.
We were so lucky with my daughter. Her pediatrician was able to catch that her vaginal opening had a thin layer over it that hadn't opened. He was able to prescribe an ointment the was applied with every diaper change to open it & heal it so that she wouldn't have to have that surgery. I think had she been 10 and had to have that surgery, I would have gotten a female nurse to assist us in teaching her to apply her own ointment. Getting her a mirror or whatever she needed to be sure she could take care of her own body. Goodness, I can't imagine at age 10 having anyone else touch me like that, even if it's for my own good.
And having yearly examinations by dr to decide if it has changed naturally or needs the op, no wonder as a young child she found out that touch there gives a range of sensations. On top of inability to talk about any sexual matters ... then purity culture , toxic mix. Purity culture cripples people even when they keep to that, especially when mixed with ideas that sex is bad, women should not enjoy it but should be fully available to husband and what ever he wants after marriage, I don't know what the US version would be of the victorian advice to women to 'lie back and thing of England' ie suffer it for the sake of the nation
I so agree with you. My daughter is a bit older and I had a female nurse that had young daughters examine her. The mirror thing seems good too. Yeah and no old guys asking to hear sex stories. Some things are woman’s business.
@@helenr4300 it’s not actually “purity” culture. It’s a SA culture. If you went through that go easy on yourself. SA can masquerade as other things.
A hymen?
I found Kelly’s story to be enlightening…
I dated a student athlete (female) around the same time that Kelly was attending and graduating from BYU. In fact, I believe I lived on the same dorm floor as the athlete she mentioned in her stories my freshman year (if the rumors are true, but who knows).
Personally, I’ve come A LONG way since that time. She had grown up much differently than me; she’d grown up in a freer environment that wasn’t as adherent to the church and it’s requirements. I was way more dogmatic, and it caused difficulties in our relationship. This wasn’t the only thing, but the church standards I had been conditioned to accept and trying to fit our relationship in that “box” was the largest thing. I loved this woman, with all of my heart, and when we ultimately broke up for good, it was because I decided that I needed to go “confess my sins” to my bishop and become worthy. These “sins” involved her, and the self-inflicted guilt I was feeling became too much for me at the time. I wanted to become “worthy” to be able to go with my brother to the temple for his endowment.
It seems so stupid now, but at the time it was this huge rock and a hard place: the church and my family, or the woman I loved, dated for a few years, and was looking to marry. She was my absolute best friend, so imagine losing someone you talked for countless hours in a relatively short amount of time. If I could do it over again with the knowledge I have now, I would have done it much differently. I get why she was upset now though, and I understand a bit better the fear she felt. She was afraid of being suspended after she had worked so hard and come so far for her career (athletic and educational).
In the end, I protected her name and identity 100%, the bishop I talked to happened to be a chill bishop (once again, bishop roulette like Kelly said), and we both graduated just fine. The relationship never really rekindled though, despite my desire for it to over the last few years.
If you’ve read this far, I appreciate you so much. Know that you’re a good person, much better than you think. It may seem silly to quote an LDS prophet given the context, but the phrase is solid no matter the source: “You never know how much good you do.” I realize at this point, I need to find someone to talk to about this, but I don’t know where to go…
In my 20s, as a married woman raised Catholic, I was in Salt Lake City for a work conference. I went down to the hotel bar for a drink. I was alone. I recall that they didn't want to serve me a drink. I couldn't comprehend what the deal was. I still don't understand to this day. But I did always attribute it to the Mormon culture... have no idea.
Thank you Kelly for sharing your story. I still live with the sexual shame from my in laws, who have outright stated that I am to blame for everything having to do with my husband not going on a mission, and having a baby out of wedlock. I said, "You do know it takes 2 people to create a baby, right?" They said I was the one to blame because I didn't say no, I should have been spiritually strong enough to deny their "perfect" son. But they LOVE their grandchildren born from us, still to this day they treat me like I'm the evil daughter in law.
Is real forgiveness something Mormons give or do always demand the pound of flesh
All your podcasts have really deeply resonated with me. My family was made up of entirely converts to the church. My sister one year younger than I was labeled as having sexual problems from early childhood all the way up to her adulthood even during her membership in the church. My parents went to our bishop and the bishop said that they should kick her out since she was 18 years old. So they kicked my sister out and she had nowhere to go. Her choice is from then on let her in to a life of transients at times. Eventually she died of a massive drug and alcohol overdose which made it very difficult for my very devout mother to deal with. My mom even wrote a book about my sister’s life and tried to frame the church around many of her beliefs. It was the only hit h related book my mom wrote that wasn’t published. It’s sad because my mom only wanted to help other families that may have gone through similar difficulties. I am so glad, that before my sister passed, glad that earlier in my life when I was in the Institute ward while going to Boise state I saw hypocrisies taking place within the Institute ward and I began to question whether or not some of these things were real. I began to question why loving somebody would be next to murder in the severity of a sin. Before I acted on anything I decided to leave the church much to my parents dismay and heartache. Eventually my parents divorced and my mother remarried and she never stop trying to get me to come back to the church. But as I looked at other religions for many years trying to find a spiritual path that I might follow, I knew that the Mormon church was not the one true church. I began to realize that there was no one true church, no one true religion! Eventually I’ve kept coming around to Buddhism over the course of many years and eventually chose this is my spiritual practice. It’s helped give me a great deal of peace and understanding in my life and even my dad, who kept asking me how did I end up becoming Buddhist, stopped asking me because he said it didn’t matter to him anymore because I was such a good person and that was the most important thing to him. Thank you for doing these podcasts.
In 2017, as an exmo myself, I packed up my 18 y.o. son (we live in IN) and sent him to live in the Provo area to work and live near family. First, we had to look for non BYU housing since we knew that he wouldn't be interested in the full on BYU lifestyle. He landed in Orem and for a long time it was a great experience for a young kid living away from home. He met a young lady who was a BYU grad student from Canada. It's my understanding that they became intimate, and then she was consumed with guilt. I told her not to confess, only because I felt like she was equipped to work through her guilt in therapy and prayer. I had a feeling what the outcome would be. She spoke to her bishop, and he relayed her confession to BYU. She was on a flight home one day after the end of the semester as her student visa was terminated. The whole thing gave me whiplash, and I didn't even know what to say to my son. I'm still in disbelief and wonder if she was really sent back to Canada due to confessing to her bishop. Could I be missing something? I wish I could know for sure.
Go Kelly! I am so proud of you for coming clean on a public forum. I was raised Mormon. And I had to talk to my Bishop because I had a baby at 17 years old.
But I am no longer Mormon.
@@vernasmith6481 How does it feel to be freed from the spiritual Stalinist Russia, complete with thought crimes, that is Mormonism?
@@vernasmith6481good for you❤
Oh jeez. When I was at BYU (only stayed for one year) the student athletes damn near got away with murder. Property damage, threats to other students, sex, assault/battery, being drunk on campus, it didn't matter. The worst punishment I saw was a year of probation and some small fines.
@@therealz360z7 probably happens at all kinds of university private and public. Athletes bring in money
Kelly, I want to thank you for being so open and vulnerable while you shared confidential experiences from your life
I have always felt like I was on the outside of Mormonism and you made me feel and realize I am just fine in the hands of God regardless of faults or beliefs. I grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin and was converted to Mormonism in my youth. The Church is very different outside Utah. I have watched MS for several years. What I appreciate about the more recent "Stories" is that they ring very true to everyday ordinary LDS members.
I relate to the family choosing their religion over me so much. My mother would rather kick me out of the house when she knows my mental health disorders would probably lead to my death, than let me say or do anything contrary to mormonism. It's not love. It's a duty she thinks is love.
So sorry
Conditional Love😒
I had the “I would rather u were un-alive” and taken out of her will. She also took back my sister’s bail money when she found out she was a lesbian. So literally sent her to jail for being gay. I’m sorry u went thru that and completely understand. You’re not alone
So sad. 💗
I am so glad my parents never raised me in a high demand religion. I was brought up to be kind, honest, and hard working and our family never really needed a religion to go by. Kelly you are a fantastic and beautiful human being that deserves all the success in the world. I wish i could meet someone half as good as you are in my life.
Sad that a child is simply just learning about their body, and it becomes a shameful thing vs, a hey it’s okay just do so privately.
I'm a former BYU athlete. BYU is the least Christian campus in America. "During my time", BYU viewed male students as sexual predators. But Why? Because they saw females as weak and vulnerable, which exposes how little they thought of women. Now, maybe it has changed since then because I am hearing about more female students getting booted.
Moronic justification: "But, but, but, he/she signed the honor code"! News flash: Everyone makes mistakes, especially mistakes that are highly tempting. Regardless of what they claim, forgiveness is not practiced. Penitence, shame, humiliation, public scrutiny and the false doctrine of retribution is stressed. The real fools are the people who blindly swallow the BS that they feed.
Kelly, so sorry for the shame and hurt you have suffered throughout your life because of normal healthy behavior. I know that by talking about it people will be helped. Sharing this personal story is courageous and heroic!
Part of the tragedy of this story is how the misinterpretation of Alma 39 was weaponized to harm Kelly. The sin next to murder is not sexual sin! Alma hardly mentions sexual sin to Corianton. It was his abandonment of the ministry and the fact that he caused so many of the Zoramites to not listen to Alma, et al that was the problem. Remember, in Mosiah and in Alma 36, Alma considers his efforts to lead people out of the church as tantamount to murder. This false tradition that sexual sin is next to murder in severity is damaging and weakens the LDS movement.
I would highly recommend The Hunting Ground a documentary on women who are raped on college campus and the perpetrator is not suspended. This is not just a Mormon story but a woman’s story
I support Kelly telling her story. Am not to fond of the gossipy nature of some related experiences. I am a former member and huge advocate for change. Each story must come from the SOURCE. In that manner we can heal. Sending LOVE to this woman. As a Utah Alumn I will always think BYU is BS!!! Good job Carah.
I've just found these podcasts. So powerful. I was born & raised Mormon to 2 BYU athletes...lived the first years of my life at Wymount Terrace- then married student housing at BYU. My dad played basketball in the early 60s at BYU. My entire family is no longer LDS. My dad tells stories of being a young convert to the church at age 17, going to BYU and seeing players drink and go outside the code of conduct very often. He was benched his freshman year for telling on others. He ended up quitting because he was one that did not buy into the code of silence. My sister, a swimmer at BYU, tried LSD for the first time in the dorms at BYU and also left her D1 scholarship during her freshman year. It is so heartbreaking to see these young people battle & go through such spiritual struggles that I experienced too. What I've discovered is there is only grace and forgiveness in what Jesus did on the cross for every human being. I do not conform to any church Institution but only to biblical truth in Christ alone. That is very freeing for me. Currently the LDS church is trying to preach a similar message of Grace and forgiveness, however until they become honest about their true doctrine, many more will leave the church.
As a high schooler going to byu in the near future, this has been so helpful as it gives me signs for what to look out for. Thx for these amazing videos every time John and Carah 💞💞
mistake
BYU is a crazy jungle of weird behavior especially when it comes to the curfew , everything closes down at BYUI at a certain time and its ridiculous. Got to Community College to get your General education credits then save money going to an instate college . I went to Ensign college and many people are lying about keeping the honor Code other people are too at BYU .
I hope your experience at BYU as a bi person isn’t too tough. I couldn’t deal with attending a religious school as a queer person.
"Remind me what we are working through?" - wow!! Unbelievable!! He is going to judge your worthiness and he clearly hasn't been thinking about it or praying about it. He holds your membership in his hands and he can't be troubled to remember? 🤦♂️ Messed up for so many reasons!!
Thank you for sharing your story! Very brave.
I didn't grow up mormon, but have always been drawn to the religion in terms of intrigue. They do a great job painting that perfect family life picture, so much so that I, as a completely non religious person, considered raising my future kids with similar principles. As an adult (and mom) today, I'm horrified by the impact these teachings marr children with, and for the rest of their lives. Mormonism, in a lot of ways, is that wolf in sheep's clothing they warn about.
I loved the discussion in regards to one's relationship with religion/the Church, this comment hit me ... "I no longer need it. I no longer need them." So powerful! I also loved the conversation around anger. We tend to shun anger as "bad" or a "waste of energy." But I loved how Kelly embraces anger as a source of energy and motivation! She's careful to not let it be a source of self-destruction, nor let it define her.
Listening to this while doing house cleaning... it all sounds sick to me. I'm glad I never experienced this cult. I feel for these people.
Kelly, you are smart, articulate, lovely inside and out, and as “normal” as any human being ever was. You SO belong in this world. I’m sorry that you were traumatized by people with ridiculously ABnormal expectations and cruel behavior. My family would welcome you with arms!
Carah is the best addition to this podcast ever!!
❤️❤️❤️
I also hate how many churches make you feel less than if you choose not to have children. I have mental health issues, especially anxiety, specifically medical anxiety but also PTSD. I didn't want to pass my issues or put these issues onto a child. My husband also never wanted kids. However, being Catholic, everyone assumed we couldn't have kids and kept telling us they were sorry and praying for us etc. It was not acceptable to say we just didn't want kids. I taught preschool with my whole heart and fully devoted myself to teaching and gave if myself in that way. My husband and I also volunteer a lot. People need to realize there are ways to contribute without having kids.
I have just recently started watching this channel. As a former member, it is overwhelming at times how powerful these soul-killing messages were. I thought at times it was just me as a convert who needed “extra help” to get it straight. These discussions are LONG. I am emotionally tired sometimes after listening. I can only imagine how exhausted Kelly must have been after reviewing all of these heavy feelings for hours.
I am very appreciative of all that share their stories. You are helping others to find freedom.
Any time a pelvic exam is being done in a doctor's office, the physician should have a female chaperone . Whenever a child is being interviewed in a criminal investigation, there is an advocate in the room. I would hope that whenever anyone is being questioned by a church official that a second person is in the room. If not done now, they should change their policies ASAP.
I’m only 1/4 of the way through this and it’s already so traumatizing. What a sick, twisted culture in which we grew up! My heart breaks for Kelly and for everyone else who suffered as a result. Growing up as a gay Mormon boy trying desperately to fit inside of the prescribed “acceptable behavior and thought box” was nearly unbearable, and all of that collective trauma was completely unnecessary.
Still, as bad as it was, it wasn’t Utah - for which I will be forever grateful. Kelly’s dreadful Stepford ward experiences make me shudder.
Carah did a wonderful job during this interview. I’m so glad she was there.
This is very tragic that they made that sweet little girl feel that way
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm still healing from my experience growing up in Utah and being LDS. You reminded me of so much and helped me put it to rest.
This idea of sexual reactivity is an interesting one. Having had sexual encounters when I was very young that I hesitate to label definitively as abuse because they were not coercive or violent and I viewed them with a certain curiosity and subsequently becoming a lifetime masturbator from then on, I can absolutely relate to what Kelly is saying.
Hearing about the "I'm clean now because I just got baptized" part was especially poignant.
I was always terrified of being found out and would avoid the bishop and most people generally. I have a few journal entries just like the one Kelly mentions. Hyper-religiosity to compensate for masturbation is describing me. I can absolutely echo her sentiments about never feeling like a person who belonged anywhere.
Also: this is why I hate professional/college sports.
The Church making people feel flawed while itself being riddled with flaws sounds like projecting.
Thank you so much, Kelly, for your honesty, vulnerability, candidness and anger.
What hurts me the most with this interview is seeing how much Kelly still appears to beat up herself over the past? Kelly, if you ever read this - all I personally see is an incredibly honest, strong, powerful and loving person. With the wise, learning is never lost
I love Carah! Wish I could be friends with her, she seems so fun to hang out with! Amazing episode as usual. I continue to be shocked by how much trauma and suffering the Mormon culture causes for people over literally non-issues! So frustratingly heartbreaking 💔
I’m about 1/3 of the way through Kelly’s story. I cannot begin to fathom the guilt and shame imposed on her. I was lds, served a mission, went to BYU (one year only, the subculture was more than I could deal with, the facades and hypocrisy specifically) married in the temple, etc. I left, resigning my membership back in the ‘90s.
I’m quite familiar with the church’s practice of not being responsible for what it does to members who don’t measure up. I’m familiar with how the church tends to shoot it’s wounded. I’ve never actually heard the entire history of someone who endured all of this to the degree that Kelly has.
I’m appalled that she was labeled a sex addict by someone who had no business making such a diagnosis. I’m a health care provider and while mental health is not my specialty, there’s so much crossover in the nature of my profession, I know enough to refer my patients out to a provider dedicated to mental health when something like sex addiction is a possibility.
As to her parents sending her off to the bishop every time she transgressed some mormon moral boundary…that’s just bad parenting. I know they felt like they were doing what the church directed, on some level they were passing the buck. I bet it was a lot easier to refer her to the bishop than have the kind of in-depth discussions that should have happened.
My children were born post mormon and I’m grateful that they were raised without all the baggage that mormon kids are. I pray for Kelly that she continues to heal and have a joy filled life and finds real truth on her journey.
Agreed on her parents passing on the responsibility. It’s clear she loves them and doesn’t want to talk bad about here listens but it’s seems like they didn’t know what to do so they chose to do nothing.
Early in this interview I was left speechless when Kelly relayed how her mother forced her to go to the bishop to deal with the problem. I am absolutely astonished that a person who claims to be a loving mother can be so completely devoid of any sense of humanity. John Streeter provides an excellent TOTAS disussion on this very subject called "Lies that Blind." He points out how life members of uber controlling religions like Mormonism that are under the influence of a myth of men having special power, never learned to deal with complex personal and moral issues, life’s uncertainties and life’s contradictions. By always deferring to a higher moral authority like prayer, scripture, clergy etc, they never exercise and develop their inner conscience and personal moral authority and agency. Working through complex issues beginning with first principles has been surrendered to the authorities and thus never developed. This is, or at least was, Kelly's mother.
@@China-Clay I appreciate your compassion and sympathy, but I just can't accept this. If one believes in the intrinsic human nature of mankind as described by English/Scottish enlightenment people like Adam Smith and David Hume, as I do, then this person consciously and willfully allowed a religious dogma to upstage her empathy, more egregiously considering this is her daughter. There were and always have been better options than humiliation of a child, again, especially ones own.
@@China-Clay OK, again I don't agree, not fully anyway, but your point is well said.
The general idea of an honor code doesn't bother me because it IS a private school and students DID agree to it. What does bother me is the sickening double standard. Pick a freaking lane, BYU. 🤬
You are a beautiful, perfect and Divine Soul Kelly - you are responsible for no one but YOU- ever - you were born worthy - more than good enough - and you came to experience Love & Joy! It’s overwhelming to hear what you have been through- what a powerful, brave and strong woman you are!
Amazing interview. Like Cara says I think this is one of the most vulnerable interviews Mormon stories has done so far. I have a lot more of them to watch though. :) Thank you Kelly.
This is an important interview. So very important. And it’s brave to do this. Thank you so much for doing this, for being so vulnerable. Hopefully it will help others to avoid some of the carnage of purity culture.
Never-Mormons can learn the damage of Mormon purity culture. It damages BOTH men and women. Which damages families. Which damages communities & society.
There’s a reason why enemies of the US encourage & promote divisive religious rhetoric, and religion in general, on social medias. There’s a reason enemies of the US told Manafort to get Pence as VP-purity culture damages & weakens society.
There are hundreds of thousands of Americans with stories like this. Hundreds of thousands of families ruined. In a multi-pronged attack, religious rhetoric is used.
I agree. I honestly believe that religion does quite a bit more harm than good.
Meh, enemies suffer from religion too.
@@yosemite735 🌲
Everyone, enemies, allies & neutrals. Family Watch Int., a US Christian org, was founded by a Mormon-Sharon Slater. FWI & other Christian fundies have poured $50 million + into teaching politicians from all across Africa how to campaign against sex education & LGBT rights. Even helping make it legal to murder 🏳️🌈 people, something they long to do in the US. They’ve made no secret of this.
This is such a powerful episode. As an exvangelical, the story of Kelly's childhood and teen years was eerily similar (aside from the surgery). So much shame and despair surrounding this perfectly normal part of being human. I hope Kelly continues to heal and grow, and recognize how brave and incredible she is to speak out about this.
Kelly so sorry you went through this trauma as a little girl❤️ I think many of us were not educated about our body or our sexuality. We were shamed for natural sensations and calling it sin.😕
I absolutely love Carah! I’m so happy you’ve brought her on, she’s so funny and such a great addition
Hey thanks!
Absolutely agree! She is a gem
From a non Mormon, this is the best and most disturbing podcast yet. I hurt for Kelly and wish her all the best in her recovery from this life of shame. She is a great human being and I hope everything works out for her. Live your life. Be kind. And be happy. This is truly awful. Take care of yourself, Kelly.
It took me a minute to complete it I keep taking breaks it’s so heavy.
@@JustBrii I watched it in two batches over two days.
At around 55 minutes, when she is talking about sex education something really hit home. When my parents originally told me about sex, they told me practically the same thing. I believed that you were ~only~ supposed to have sex for reproduction, and I've almost always been scared of having kids, so I told myself that I would never have sex because I didn't want my body to go through pregnancy. Now I'm a lesbian, so that's no worry now lol
So similar to my Catholic upbringing! How messed up is it that losing our virginity would hurt our dads...
It takes strength to come on a podcast and open up on such difficult topics. I applaud her and of course the interviewers for giving her a safe space
I have spent hours and hours watching your channel John. Thank you. I have many reasons, but mainly I want to understand it, be able to state why I could never follow this doctrine, but mainly for mercy and grace when listening to several people in my life. I know they do not know all of the things that come out over and over again. This young woman was wonderful. I am so glad to have found this story. Totally open minded, willing to suffer the pain in order to change and grow, and so forgiving. Few of us are as brave, Kelly. Heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time. Thank you.
My heart hurts for Kelly as I was raised in a part time member family as my birth mom didn't drive and my biological father did but was a trucker .She had some bad experiences of Bishop russian roulette and it destroyed our family and my moms ability to walk away from gaslighting and emotional abuse as this was in Utah. When I went to The LDS Business College I knew my roommate was not living the honor code. I tried to pursued her to live better and to do better to protect herself from guys who took advantage of her as she ,like Kelly had this need to be accepted and loved I told her she didn't need that approval from others into the jack mormon group but she craved it so bad. I also had a hard time fitting in the church culture especially in UT of fitting in as I don't believe just and loving God who is the same today yeater and tomorrow would treat people in such a terrible un Christlike way . There are so many hypocrites in the Church who should mind their own business. My best friends I've met at church are the best most kind and open minded member and I am grateful they are my friends , and they are few. I now am jaded after a bishop wouldn't let me do my calling as the lord was guiding me and he can't answer my questions . I go to church with a jaded sense of who is speaking with the spirit and who is just standing there like a dead fish . After my Brother left I have a hard time with some topics in the church. Temple ordinances changing , racism in the church after Joseph Smith's Death . I pray and ask God because no one will answer my questions , not even about the temple with the stitck "sacred not secret" I am a person who has been faithful and has her heart with God yet no one talks to me about the temple . I feel frustrated constantly so I take everything with a grain of salt when I go to church honestly.
I’ve never been Mormon, I do have a Mormon story of my own, but every time I hear these stories when the person relates how they felt/feel when they discover it’s all been a lie, I feel a kick in the gut for you over the betrayal that finding out it’s all been a lie. Kelly’s discovery has been so recent that it hurt me that the Mormon “church” hurt her so badly and caused so much damage. Just know that there are so many people that hurt with you and pray ( yes pray) that you heal. Kelly, you never know, your parents may someday reach the point of “knowing” too and they will be hurting like you are.
I relate to many of the themes of your life, Kelly. The blame, the shaming, the over-reaction by parents, leaders, the shunning is all based on a unrealistic code that only damages all it touches. We have so much to overcome.
Big Love to Kelly. Amazing that she found her own mind and clarity while still in her 20's. Took me til my 50's. I feel her pain, viscerally. I will never forget the day I realized that the church was more of a Burden than a blessing. Devastating. At this point, I believe it's absolutely abusive on so many levels.
To me this feels like a lawsuit. I don’t understand how they can get away we treating students so differently
Kelly, thank you for your honesty and vulnerability. I relate to a lot of what you have said. I’m sorry you were so shamed at such a young age.
Also, I’m really happy to hear you say there is absolutely no excuse for cheating on a spouse. I wish our society would recognize this. So often infidelity gets blamed on the spouse who was the victim of infidelity. They were “too this” or they “weren’t enough that.”
This narrative must change. Infidelity is abuse. The gaslighting and emotional neglect alone is enough to quality as abuse, not to mention putting the unknowing spouse’s physical health at risk.
She gave reasons why she cheated. I'm not impressed. It was selfish of her and undisciplined. Cheating is a choice.
I was cheated on by my wife when she was pregnant and it caused me a LOT of pain.
If you're not going to be faithful then discuss that with the person you made commitments with, and/or get a divorce. Otherwise you're living a lie. And it's abusive to the faithful spouse.
My wife was miserable to live with when she was cheating cause she was angry all the time (with herself) and took it out on me. Treated me as if the marriage was dead, believing she had already killed it with her actions and I just didn't know it yet. Imagine her surprise when I was willing to forgive and love her through it. Oh, but people who are dishonest and selfish don't just change so quickly like that. Divorce had to happen because this person was ingrained with disregard for boundaries.
When this Kelly girl interviewee said she cheated on her husband and I yelled at my screen "You bitch!" 😅😅
Yes, the Church imposes arbitrary rules but her story is one of repeated lack of discipline, bringing misery on herself. ...Went to BYU knowing the rules and couldn't last two months without breaking the most serious of them. Got married and then broke the most cardinal rule, again. ...Hurting other people along the way.
No wonder people don't trust you. You're not trustworthy. But hey, we all have our flaws. And she's painfully aware of hers.
For me, if I'm with a girl who I know has religious standards then I don't take her past her own boundaries, out of respect for her, because I have the discipline and presence of mind to do so. If I want to go further with someone then I'll find someone else who I'm not going to put into a corner and break their moral code giving them regret.
Take responsibility for how your actions affect others. And really, if you have a moral code, then live by it till you otherwise change it. It is possible. I did it. It can be done.
Congrats on breaking free of religious lies that bound you 👏
End rant
One of my all-time favorite MSP episodes ever.
Massive kudos to Kelly and Carah for openly discussing healthy sexuality, and for condemning tscc’s harmful and toxic doctrines and policies on sexuality. Especially great to get women’s experiences and perspectives on this topic.
As a child of Catholic perfectionistic parents, much of what they were taught in the church was based on fear. If you didn’t do XYZ, then you will burn in hell for eternity. Even though you are taught about forgiveness, it was like it didn’t count. Sex was not talked about in our home. It was like it didn’t exist. Everything on the outside had to be perfect (perfect home, children, etc) because everything INSIDE of them was very messy. It’s a hard way to live. I fell very short. Watching this podcast brings up many emotions for me. Sadness, depression, anger, and relief that I don’t live that life anymore. My children have never experienced this hard life either.
Thank you for being so brave and courageous to speak out about the natural process of sexuality that gets distorted with this church that wants all control over sexuality. I was raised Mormon in Ireland and abused by my father, who thought he should be the master of my sexuality at 13. I lived all the experiences you talked about when I came to America and would go to the bishop and confess my sin of masterbation . They would want more detail than was needed, yet the bishops son stood outside waiting to give me a ride home and he told his son to stay away from me and wouldn’t let him drive me home.
I think it's very natural to be confrontational with people after you have been mistreated and lied to your whole life. You are doing awesome, girl!
That’s a cop out to have a pass at being a crappy person for the rest of your life. Healing from your past includes being a mature adult capable of having a discussion. She still has a long way to go.
I'm not LDS. I'm an outsider thinking about Kelly's story as though she was a non Mormon. She comes across as someone with an unhealthy relationship with sex...like sexual narcissism. She seems like she has an insatiable need for validation and discovered somewhere along the way using her sexuality provided her a steady source. The Mormon church just conflates the mental health issue. This was hard to watch and honestly, makes me wonder about its usefulness as a resource to people struggling with their faith.
I had a very similar experience! I was caught at age 5 or 6 masturbating and was told I couldn’t go to the temple if I did that. I was so confused by why and how... so I got really good at hiding it.
I hope this woman is continuing her healing journey. There is so much evident pain still T here - understandably so. As a side note, I am not Mormon and find these podcasts fascinatingly disturbing. I have noticed a couple of things in the many of these podcasts:
1. Humor seems to be an automatic default to minimize and “cope” with their pain, including smiling as one talks about enormous pain - so incongruent. To me, it says it’s a way to unconsciously deny or minimize - no judgment at all on my part at all!
2. There seems to be such a need to still “forgive, understand and give the benefit of the doubt” … despite what happened or how one was treated. How about righteous anger … to let oneself feel and be truly angry BEFORE going into forgiveness, etc. I had a very amazing therapist who helped me with this issue because I would say … “I know my parents loved me, but ….” And he would say/ask … “what did that love actually look like?” Wow! Life changing!
The other really incredibly helpful thing my therapist shared with me that opened my heart and mind and changed me forever - he encouraged me to ask myself: “what do I have to prove … and to who … and why?” Truly, truly changed my entire life!
I wish everyone here all the best!
I was so happy the therapist was legit and not affiliated to the church.
Such a powerful experience to share! Thank you so much for sharing this! Your strength is going to help so many!!
Really appreciate Carah doing this interview. I'd like to see more with her driving!
Thanks!
Another courageous guest speaking truth to power and giving inspiration to everyone. I honour your story Kelly.
I think I’m going to have to watch this in bits. I want so much to comfort her but also, at 53minutes, I’m fighting back tears and I have a hunch it won’t be the last time.
2:12:40 I had this one counselor ask me if I had a boyfriend. I told him no. (I had a weird long-distance situationship going on, so I got a little nervous) He said I seemed like the kind of person who would have a secret boyfriend. I hated that man. And after getting to know his children, I realized they didn't like him either.
This girl has been injured by those she trusted the most. Please find strength and keep on telling your story.
I absolutely loved listening to this! Thank you for telling your story I could relate on so many levels! Keep living your truth and being who you really are!
Sex being next to murder. A great play by JS to make sure to get total control over his victims.
While he himself had an affair with a 14 year old in a barn... poor Fanny. Course being caught prompted him to marry her soon after but those are details TBMs don't care to know.
@@MustangWriter That particular expression comes from a scripture in the Mormon church. Anyone familiar knows of it. I’m talking about Alma 39:5. Take your nasty comment and stick it up your nose along with the other things you find on the floor. Yea how do you like being talked down to? It doesn’t feel very good does it? No. So stop that or at least know what’s going on.
@@MustangWriter nothing to say so straight to the personal attacks which aren’t even relevant. I was a member of the Mormon cult. Do you know what a Mormon is? Have you heard of seminary? Study up and come back with you actually something valuable to say. Sin next to murder comes from a scripture in the BOM.
@@MustangWriter ew what kind of Joe Smith act is this? Ya I’ll bet you are around a lot of sexually starved women. But I don’t blame her. If I lived in your house Id rather to go without too. Shut up already it’s embarrassing.
@@MustangWriter no one’s grandkids want to get Joesph Smithed by you.
I'm so glad I dont live in Utah anymore. I went to school out there for 4 years and that was it....life is better far from mormonisn physically and mentally.
Hearing these Mormon stores just fills me with so much anger. I hadn’t even realized how much rage I have inside about the church. Bishops should NEVER be listening to, much less demanding, member confessions. They aren’t qualified to give therapy, whether it be personal, marital, child, sexual, or anything else. If someone chooses to go to the bishop with a spiritual crisis then it would be appropriate, but a lot of them can’t even do that right. I feel so badly for her. I’m lucky I got out when I was a teen. They’d have destroyed me if I hadn’t.
I am never Mormon so what I really don't understand: don't mormon bishops have to keep confidentiality?
I related to so much of this. Thank you Kelly for allowing us in, and for being so vulnerable.
Thanks for another great podcast. I related to so much of what she experienced and some things I hadn’t processed or realized were a problem before she addressed them. And that’s after being out of the church for 16 yrs at 72 yrs old. But time for reflecting and assessing old pent up frustrations and long standing quilt
Another heartbreaking story. Thank you for your strength to talk about this so that others can heal.
The church will ALWAYS blame the woman, put the responsibility of sin on the woman.
My mom was a 24 year old virgin who was engaged to my 31 year old previously married father and she was told SHE was responsible for them breaking the law of chastity because she was tempting. I was floored when I processed that one a few years ago.
For a church who was build on polygamy and creating members between the sheets, they sure have a strange view on sexuality. It's such a private topic, why would they ever want to know about their members relations, I find it perverse, purity culture or not.🤢
This is so powerful! Thank you for sharing your story!
Great woman. Super self-aware and articulate. Good luck to her.