Saane deserves SO much more then the church could have ever given her. Her hard work, dedication, focus and resilience will carry her far. This episode hits different being a Polynesian who grew up in the church. I feel very lucky (although still painful) to have realized I didn’t belong in the church at the age of 12, after hearing the curse of Cain and the lamenites label. Her story resonates on many levels. It saddens me the church has converted so many people of my culture as the church does not deserve us or any person of color. Thanks for sharing Saane and you are an extremely brave, courageous and beautiful person!
I can't even begin to tell you, Sa'ane and John, how HUGE this interview is...how much it means to our people to see the next generation stand up and SPEAK OUT! I've shared this interview series with so many family members (and my kids) already. THANK YOU THANK YOU!
it was so healing to listen to saane express her experience and share her story as a tongan in the church. her activism and kind-heartedness is so inspiring and i'm so glad to hear that through all the obstacles she's come out in a better mental space with the intention to continue to help people in her community and all marginalized people, especially young people who are truly going through it. i see how damaging the church has been to the tongan youth in my family and hope we can find a way to heal from it as well. thank you for sharing this story, i hope to see more in our community follow in saane's footsteps. ofa lahi atu ♥️
Saane is a beautiful and wonderful human being and a top choice. Those bigots and racist are and were fools not to take you seriously. What a great story, thank you for this interview and for providing this platform.
Sa'ane, you are absolutely amazing. Your light shines from within and you are an inspiration. Thank you for sharing. Everyone on this episode is amazing. More like this John!
I am so inspired & impressed by Saane. She’s a beautiful, powerful, wise, thoughtful, heartfelt woman. I’m struck by how clearly she saw through the BS lies & disrespect from the BYU student-body & administration. I’m gutted hearing about her experiences & the way she was mistreated. The church & university leaders are depraved for knowingly promoting racism, misogyny, xenophobia, & hate. And SHAME on the BYU students for carrying on these harmful, nasty beliefs when they know better. Sending my deep admiration & appreciation to Saane❤
2:23:05 Nate: "You're whole identity is the church, you don't have time to develop yourself" SO TRUE!!! I think this can apply to everyone (certainly applies to me).
This is so so true. I want to hear more on that topic. I would love to see him (nate) interviewed individually as well. I think a lot of us viewers would love to hear his whole story with the church.
Politics is more complicated than Religion. I’m not a politician but I have gained my pieces of knowledge considering my age and have worked on government construction contracts for over 40 years, working in Hawaii, Alaska, Quam, China and in many states of the USA . Also traveling in Africa, Australia, Poland,
Hearing that Maori in New Zealand were allowed the priesthood makes so much sense now!! I had no idea! The Hamilton temple in NZ was recently refurbished, so it was opened to the public for a bit and there were a few news stories on it. There was one that interviewed a Maori Wahine (woman) about her relationship with the church, and I remember thinking how ironic it was, considering how POC were not allowed the priesthood until very recently. But the fact that some POC groups actually WERE allowed the priesthood the whole time makes me think that some Mormon church members outside of the United States might not be aware of this?! New Zealand has relatively few persons of African descent, so it stands to think that perhaps this is totally glossed over?
Indeed. So incredibly true from any perceivable angle. Even as a standalone podcast without the Mormon/Religious backdrop. One of the best podcast series I've ever heard period. It hits so many important and relevant points from a historical, societal, political standpoint in addition to the dynamics of being a minority navigating a largely Euro American religious institutional environment. Amazing story.
Still deep down the rabbit hole of M.S. All great interviews to garden to, best flower & Veggie garden I have ever done 😉. I am so impressed with these 2 and all of your guest. I had no idea that Mormans weren't like every other church. I will say it seems your guest young & old are people of such integrity, hard working educated and even though they walked away for obvious reasons, being raised in the church for a majority (not all) has resulted in some amazing adults. With that said I am so sorry for all the children, adukts & families who were hurt by this church. If people like your guest were the future of running our country, I would have so much more hope in a better future for my kids & grandkids. ❤
Being raised in the LDS church has some amazing advantages. However, there's another side of it that almost pushes you out if you don't adhere to certain norms and standards. You have to be a strong person to sit in nuanced LDS beliefs to stay....but then the LDS church can absolutely help in raising some strong humans too.
@@kimberlythomas4373 yes I can see how it hurt so many. It looks like some churches may not be as Orthodox as the ones in Utah? My neighbors are morman and have amazing kids, however 2 of them have left after graduation and got married in the temple in Utah where they are originally from. I was surprised as they seemed so sheltered and never dated.
I think being the exception to the rule is one of the greatest gifts you could ever have because you can change the world one person at a time. This was an amazong series. Thank you for all you have done. All of you
What a powerful interview. I am beyond impressed. There is so much heartbreak in these stories . . . and yet, Mormon Stories has been a lifeline for me (and I know for so many others). I am so grateful for the courage of these individuals that show up here with so much truth pouring out of them. 🙏🏼❤️
I really appreciated this interview, as a queer christian raised in conservative evangelical spaces but identifying personally with Christ, love, empathy, social justice, progressive mentality & politics. Between Saane’s great words, Nate’s input and a progressive bishop, thus has been my favourite interview.
i can also really relate to her university experience after an extremely racist discussion during a lecture within my first month of uni i kept my head down and just did my work for three years
When I lived in Provo, I had 3 girls tell me to my face they asked me out because the Elders Quorum reached out to them to help me feel more welcomed & they only did it to get close to his roommates 😂 I know exactly what she's going through
My heart goes out to you Saane, I lost my best friend to suicide and then almost lost my daughter. I know how it feels and that pain when the 'plan of happiness' is not working
Saane i too am a Liberal and when i was a member in the chruch whenever i would speak my views or even talk about ways to help people who aren't for or even aren't mormom, it was always a huge problem but they would always be hush hush about it and push me & butter me up to be the token black guy of the wards i was in, in both Provo & Orem. If its not in the best interest of the church or for the church, then there's always something wrong with you, the only problem is the church itself frowns on any member who isn't a conservative, you are a beautiful daughter of God Saane & you are not alone. By the way i felt the whole trump influence thing when i was there in 2017 & 2020, its like no matter what you do to help or fit the mold because of your color you'll never fully fit in & honestly im glad i didn't fit in 😂 that's too much mayonnaise for me to handle 😆
I attended BYU in the late 70’. I was proud of graduating from a good private university, and I never talk about my experience there. I left religion altogether. It is criminal that 40 years later, it’s still as racist as it was then. I’m in awe of your courage, Saane.
By the way, when I went to BYU in the late 60s, there were no blacks, none. But there were quite a few Tongans, Samoans and Islanders. I remember asking an administrator why there were no blacks at BYU, and he said because there would be no social life for them because there were no other blacks for them to date and to socialize, and it made sense to me, then. But there were always Pacific Islanders and they were always popular. They were the best dancers and the best athletes. you're a very attractive lady I don't understand why you didn't have more fun. Obviously the 60s was a different time, even at BYU.
I never understood the festish thing, but I recognized that it happens A LOT. My husband is asian. My 2 SIL gave us a hard time when we started dating, they wanted their brother to date other hmong/asian girls. They both went off to BYU-I and ended up marrying white men that had both gone on their missions to Japan and Korea. I asked my SIL why they decided to marry white men when they gave us a hard time? They said that the white men treated them better, like gentlemen opening doors for them and such, plus there wasn't very many other hmong asian guys to choose from.
Can you imagine missionaries at the mtc in Provo that were not here legally and still able To serve somewhere in the us waking up to trump winning and hearing their fellow missionaries happy and boasting … my heart breaks!!
I see where Saane is talking about when it comes to being emotionally mature while being a member, most members that I've been around told me they if I hang with people outside of the church it'll damage my testimony & it's best to only be friends with fellow members, it's very toxic
That's definitely worth an in-depth episode, if not a whole series-how the church emotionally cripples and infantilizes males en masse, forcing their women to carry it for them, often entirely unbeknowst to them.
Didnt grow up as Mormon but listening to the exploitation really resinates with me. I went to a culty university and towards the end I was working 2 full-time jobs for the school as well as a full-time student. Everything was gendered and only two spots on campus were mostly safe for LGBTQ+ People. I am so sorry you all went through being tricked and exploited. It sucks.
I thought that too. As a WOC I thought there would be acceptance in the church and in the YSA award but there was racism. Because that was what everyone was taught from the BOM, scriptures and Prophets. Sad.
Watching this for the second time and it breaks my heart to hear Nate say that Sa'ane is the exception to the rule :( It's true, I hate that it's true.
If you think undergrads at BYU are anti immigration you should hear the grads at the J Ruben Clark Law school. Future lawyers and judges being vocal anti-immigration and demeaning immigrants (legal or not). The professors and deans don't care, they don't address those issues with the grads
@@jennifernewton9539 no, the sentiment is the same. They'll pull the ol' "just because you immigrated legally doesn't mean you have to bring all your family here" or "you're just an anchor baby" If you want to talk legal immigration then let's talk how it can be easier to legally immigrate. Because it is hard and complicated and expensive. Just saying "just come here legally" is dismissive because you don't have to think about it and you don't have to navigate through all the red tape. Have you ever looked at the immigration steps? Do you know which website to go and how to apply? My in law's jaw dropped when i had to explain the process to them, they thought it was a quick process. At the end of the day these student, undergrad and grad, made no distinction between the two
I was invited to attend a LDS Church in Australia by a white American missionary boy. Who is from Utah Salt lake City town. He handed me a book of mormon I told him I don't need it in a kind way. He just gave me the book so I accepted it and thanked him. 1 day After I decided to do a research on the LDS Church. I found negative history -Joseph Smith cult leader polygamous. Many wives. Secretly married other mens wives. Had affairs with 14 year old girls - the racist teachings about dark skin is a punishment for being wicked and sin. This turn me off attending the church invite. I am also Catholic. And I have notified him. I did end up throwing the Book Of Mormon away because I felt it may have entities prior to finding the racist teachings
Even my tiny liberal arts college had budgets for each extra curricular or event, that’s somehow surprisingly stingy. (I just heard the episode about how much the church is worth so it’s particularly egregious.)
My heart breaks for you. I got SO TIRED of being told to sit in classes at church, keep my mouth shut, stay silent, and fit in. Nope. Also from Cali, L.a. County, blatantly liberal, well educated. Nope, I wasn't "Mormon" enough! Idiots...
It seems like the socially and politically smartest members of any color, end up leaving the church. Saane, you are a wonderful human being. I wish I had known you when I was in university (in the 90s). I’m white and I’ve always felt like an outsider amongst most of the people in my area, because of my progressive views. I guess I’ve never lived in a place like Oakland, so I don’t know what it would be like to live with like-minded people. The isolation is tough.
"humanity" the kind feelings humans often have to to each other. However when giving humanity you have to be genuine, otherwise the recipient will see through you.
I kept wondering why Nate looked so familiar! Thanks for clarifying what/who the BlackMenaces are 😅😅 those videos used to pop up on my TIKTOK all the time
1:14:04 The thing that makes no sense about patriarchal blessings assigning tribes. Even if it were true that all humanity is descended from one of 12 brothers, by 4000 years later, you likely would have ancestors from many if not all 12 of them at that point. How do they decide?
Believe me, had I seen anybody make fun of you were taking "sport" with you I would have smacked him. Had you told any of your Tongan or Samoan athlete friends on campus no telling what they would have done. Those Pacific Islanders are absolutely fearless. Conversely, I understand what it's like to be lonely at BYU as I was disfellowshipped my senior year for heterosexual fornication and it was pretty bad. But I'm surprised you didn't tell any of those islander athletes because that guy would have been hanging from the goal posts
Mormons do use the Bible. Mormons use both the bible and Book or Mormon. Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. The bible and Book of Mormon both testify of Christ and teach his gospel. Each book support the others teaching. Both describe gods interaction with people in different areas of the world and teach the same principles. They believe Lehi traveled from Jerusalem 600 years before Chist to the Americas. They believe in the Americas they had prophets. Hence the Book of Mormon was written.
The Bible is used. It's considered part of their standard works of scripture. Each year Sunday school cycles between old testament, new testament, book of Mormon, and doctrine & covenants. A whole year is devoted to each book as a focus
We read the bible but there's definitely a lot more emphasis on the BoM. Aside from scripture enthusiasts, Mormons don't read the Bible from start to finish.
The Bible is the Stick of Judah and The Book of Mormon is the Stick of Joseph. In Ezek 37:15-28 the prophet Ezekiel is instructed to inscribe two “sticks” (Hebrew ), one for Judah and one for Joseph, and to unite them in a visual display meant to signify God's intention to reunite the former kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
I was never mormon...raised catholic but I completely agree that Jesus is of course pro immigration, pro loving the outcast, pro fighting for the marginalized...I have always been bothered by the disconnect between how people are treated and/or viewed by the church and how Jesus taught us to love and act in love.
2:54:00 all those religion requirements at BYU are a waste of time and money, and it led me to not believing in the church. American Heritage (AH) bothered me as well. AH was taught by Jeffrey R. Holland’s son and when he said that Roe v. Wade was the equivalent of legalizing slavery, I was shocked.
Don't ya know that if your anything but conservative, especially a liberal or even someone who has independent party type of views for the world we live in on BYU campus makes you automatically ostracized from the environment itself? I can't stand Provo, its like its own planet lightyears from saturn that happened to get stuck on earth for no reason at all 😆
9:59 I find it incredibly hard to believe that this pick a name out of a hat dating dare only had not-white girls. I just can’t see that happening. I can see the game in general picking dates that way. That sounds like something Mormons would do. But only having girls that aren’t white? Why? And then when she was mad that someone was interested in her for being Tongan because they went on a mission there, people are framed by their experiences in life. So asking if he would have been into her before that seems irrelevant. People change based on their experiences. That shows that he loved Tonga and and Tongan people. To be offended by that confuses me. Like for an example, I was adopted. I didn’t know my heritage for sure until I took a DNA test at 26. I found out I was half Israeli Jewish. Prior to that I had never had any particular feelings for Israel or Jewish people. I knew about WWII and the holocaust and the Bible and early religion connection but other than that, I never paid any particular interest in Jewish culture or anything. I was absolutely not against them. Just didn’t focus or anything. After finding out my heritage, now I’m hyper aware of anything I hear about Israel or Jewish people and have started studying about them and probably never would have had I not had the experience of learning my heritage. Make sense? Same goes for non cultural things too. Before you buy a certain car, you may never notice them on the road or when you do, you don’t even acknowledge it really. Then you buy that car and all of a sudden you see it everywhere. Also you start learning about that make and model. I mean it’s just simply how people grow as they get older. They stack on more and more experiences that makes them more well rounded, accepting, tolerant, knowledgeable people. Lastly, she was talking about how the only possible reason she wasn’t getting asked out every day had to be because she was Tongan. There was no other possibility. Then in the next breath saying she was out protesting gay marriage openly. I mean…I think that would definitely be a candidate for reasons Mormon guys wouldn’t be into someone. It’s a direct contradiction of their beliefs. So they probably viewed her as less worthy or not having as much of a testimony. It just seems blatantly obvious and I find it sad and unfortunate that she just automatically attributes every percieved action against her being only attributed to her ethnicity and no other option. It sucks that that is how she views things. Not everything has to do with race. It really, really doesn’t. I hope she can understand that as she gets older. Or she will feel depressed and victimized constantly if every single perceived injustice is attributed to that and only that. You just can’t think that way or you live your entire life as a victim. Likely unnecessarily.
2:49:48 I took a course on African studies at a liberal University. The class backfired for many because it was more biased and propogandized than Mormon Curriculum. For some reason they censor and omit facts like this... "Some of the first and largest slave owners in America were free black slave owners." “More whites were brought as slaves to North Africa than blacks brought as slaves to the United States or to the 13 colonies from which it was formed. White slaves were still being bought and sold in the Ottoman Empire, decades after blacks were freed in the United States.” - Thomas Sowell, Harvard educated fellow at Stanford University "... but the inescapable fact that struck in my craw was: my people (Africans) had sold me... My own people had exterminated whole nations and torn families apart for a profit before the strangers got their chance for a cut. It was a sobering thought." - (Zora Neale Hurston, Black author, anthropologist, and filmaker who portrayed racial struggles in the early 1700s). "We cannot continue to blame the white men. As Africans, particularly the traditional rulers, are not blameless (Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria)." "there are millions more in slavery TODAY across Africa and the Middle-East than anytime in America’s history."
John Dehlin, you're gonna find out that the conspiracy theories are true. And sadly, though you mean well, you are doing harm UNKNOWINGLY. Just as TBM's won't touch "anti mormon info", you won't touch "conspiracy theories". How are you different? John, you broke 1 bubble of the veil (realizing religion is a scam), it's time to realize LIFE IS bubble after bubble after bubble of veils. Life is a series of fractals. With love and gratitude for the good you are doing, - Nathan
As usual, Im riveted by the guests and entirely cringed out by John. He’s done well with Mormonism but he has a lot more socio/political deconstructing to do. It’s problematic.
36:30 Quite presumptive to assume someone is referring to immigrants as criminals when all hey said was they lock their doors to protect the people inside from people outside. Like the entire purpose for locks. I just keep hearing example after example of her making every single thing about race.
12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others-and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:12 there are scholars who assert that “eunuch” may refer to a wide range of non-binary sexual procli.
good show today I love the participants. However, you should stay out of politics, you don’t know what it is, all about. Also, I don’t like the Republicans and I don’t like the Democrats. Totally independent.
It seems like asking Saane to not talk about politics at all would be forcing her to not address a crucial part of her story. Everything is political and to allow people to be authentic in telling their story, you have to allow them to talk about politics to a certain extent.
Who is the "you" in that statement? Saane? MSP? both? Anything specific that makes you say that "you don't know what it is all about" ? She comes across as far more astute than many others her age.
@@elijahhawaii / John Dehlin and Saane are very smart, well educated individuals but they don’t know the specifics in politics, therefore don’t talk about it.
Saane deserves SO much more then the church could have ever given her. Her hard work, dedication, focus and resilience will carry her far. This episode hits different being a Polynesian who grew up in the church. I feel very lucky (although still painful) to have realized I didn’t belong in the church at the age of 12, after hearing the curse of Cain and the lamenites label. Her story resonates on many levels. It saddens me the church has converted so many people of my culture as the church does not deserve us or any person of color. Thanks for sharing Saane and you are an extremely brave, courageous and beautiful person!
Amen. 🫶🏾
I can't even begin to tell you, Sa'ane and John, how HUGE this interview is...how much it means to our people to see the next generation stand up and SPEAK OUT! I've shared this interview series with so many family members (and my kids) already. THANK YOU THANK YOU!
Right!! 🫶🏾🫶🏾🫶🏾🤟🏾
The best
Definitely hopeful for more Poly discussions.
it was so healing to listen to saane express her experience and share her story as a tongan in the church. her activism and kind-heartedness is so inspiring and i'm so glad to hear that through all the obstacles she's come out in a better mental space with the intention to continue to help people in her community and all marginalized people, especially young people who are truly going through it. i see how damaging the church has been to the tongan youth in my family and hope we can find a way to heal from it as well.
thank you for sharing this story, i hope to see more in our community follow in saane's footsteps. ofa lahi atu ♥️
She’s fantastic, her former bishop is fantastic, her friend is fantastic! Amazing people! More episodes like this!
Saane, please run for public office. We so need your intellect, passion and truth!
Saane is a beautiful and wonderful human being and a top choice. Those bigots and racist are and were fools not to take you seriously. What a great story, thank you for this interview and for providing this platform.
Sa'ane, you are absolutely amazing. Your light shines from within and you are an inspiration. Thank you for sharing. Everyone on this episode is amazing. More like this John!
Saane, you are gorgeous 🥰. And so intelligent and warm. Great interview!
I am so inspired & impressed by Saane. She’s a beautiful, powerful, wise, thoughtful, heartfelt woman. I’m struck by how clearly she saw through the BS lies & disrespect from the BYU student-body & administration. I’m gutted hearing about her experiences & the way she was mistreated. The church & university leaders are depraved for knowingly promoting racism, misogyny, xenophobia, & hate. And SHAME on the BYU students for carrying on these harmful, nasty beliefs when they know better. Sending my deep admiration & appreciation to Saane❤
2:23:05 Nate: "You're whole identity is the church, you don't have time to develop yourself" SO TRUE!!! I think this can apply to everyone (certainly applies to me).
This is so so true. I want to hear more on that topic. I would love to see him (nate) interviewed individually as well. I think a lot of us viewers would love to hear his whole story with the church.
What a beautiful story. Saane has such a charming personality. I've enjoyed every minute of this!
Politics is more complicated than Religion. I’m not a politician but I have gained my pieces of knowledge considering my age and have worked on government construction contracts for over 40 years, working in Hawaii, Alaska, Quam, China and in many states of the USA . Also traveling in Africa, Australia, Poland,
That’s where and when you gain knowledge in politics and what life is all about .
Hearing that Maori in New Zealand were allowed the priesthood makes so much sense now!! I had no idea! The Hamilton temple in NZ was recently refurbished, so it was opened to the public for a bit and there were a few news stories on it. There was one that interviewed a Maori Wahine (woman) about her relationship with the church, and I remember thinking how ironic it was, considering how POC were not allowed the priesthood until very recently. But the fact that some POC groups actually WERE allowed the priesthood the whole time makes me think that some Mormon church members outside of the United States might not be aware of this?! New Zealand has relatively few persons of African descent, so it stands to think that perhaps this is totally glossed over?
Saane you are beautiful. Keep doing your thing.
Best Mormon Stories of all time ❤❤❤🎉
Indeed. So incredibly true from any perceivable angle. Even as a standalone podcast without the Mormon/Religious backdrop. One of the best podcast series I've ever heard period. It hits so many important and relevant points from a historical, societal, political standpoint in addition to the dynamics of being a minority navigating a largely Euro American religious institutional environment. Amazing story.
Still deep down the rabbit hole of M.S. All great interviews to garden to, best flower & Veggie garden I have ever done 😉. I am so impressed with these 2 and all of your guest. I had no idea that Mormans weren't like every other church. I will say it seems your guest young & old are people of such integrity, hard working educated and even though they walked away for obvious reasons, being raised in the church for a majority (not all) has resulted in some amazing adults. With that said I am so sorry for all the children, adukts & families who were hurt by this church. If people like your guest were the future of running our country, I would have so much more hope in a better future for my kids & grandkids. ❤
Being raised in the LDS church has some amazing advantages. However, there's another side of it that almost pushes you out if you don't adhere to certain norms and standards. You have to be a strong person to sit in nuanced LDS beliefs to stay....but then the LDS church can absolutely help in raising some strong humans too.
@@kimberlythomas4373 yes I can see how it hurt so many. It looks like some churches may not be as Orthodox as the ones in Utah? My neighbors are morman and have amazing kids, however 2 of them have left after graduation and got married in the temple in Utah where they are originally from. I was surprised as they seemed so sheltered and never dated.
Sanne, you are such a beautiful woman! Please don’t let the racism of Mormons make you feel less than!
Thank you for sharing your story ❤
I think being the exception to the rule is one of the greatest gifts you could ever have because you can change the world one person at a time. This was an amazong series. Thank you for all you have done. All of you
What a powerful interview. I am beyond impressed. There is so much heartbreak in these stories . . . and yet, Mormon Stories has been a lifeline for me (and I know for so many others). I am so grateful for the courage of these individuals that show up here with so much truth pouring out of them. 🙏🏼❤️
I really appreciated this interview, as a queer christian raised in conservative evangelical spaces but identifying personally with Christ, love, empathy, social justice, progressive mentality & politics. Between Saane’s great words, Nate’s input and a progressive bishop, thus has been my favourite interview.
this young lady is a shining example of her wonderful generation the strength kindness and courage she displays beautiful
i can also really relate to her university experience after an extremely racist discussion during a lecture within my first month of uni i kept my head down and just did my work for three years
@avantgauche that's sad😢
@@avantgauche 🥺🥺
@@merricat3025 Yea, it is sad, imagine how he felt.
When I lived in Provo, I had 3 girls tell me to my face they asked me out because the Elders Quorum reached out to them to help me feel more welcomed & they only did it to get close to his roommates 😂 I know exactly what she's going through
My heart goes out to you Saane, I lost my best friend to suicide and then almost lost my daughter.
I know how it feels and that pain when the 'plan of happiness' is not working
Saane i too am a Liberal and when i was a member in the chruch whenever i would speak my views or even talk about ways to help people who aren't for or even aren't mormom, it was always a huge problem but they would always be hush hush about it and push me & butter me up to be the token black guy of the wards i was in, in both Provo & Orem. If its not in the best interest of the church or for the church, then there's always something wrong with you, the only problem is the church itself frowns on any member who isn't a conservative, you are a beautiful daughter of God Saane & you are not alone. By the way i felt the whole trump influence thing when i was there in 2017 & 2020, its like no matter what you do to help or fit the mold because of your color you'll never fully fit in & honestly im glad i didn't fit in 😂 that's too much mayonnaise for me to handle 😆
I attended BYU in the late 70’. I was proud of graduating from a good private university, and I never talk about my experience there. I left religion altogether. It is criminal that 40 years later, it’s still as racist as it was then. I’m in awe of your courage, Saane.
By the way, when I went to BYU in the late 60s, there were no blacks, none. But there were quite a few Tongans, Samoans and Islanders. I remember asking an administrator why there were no blacks at BYU, and he said because there would be no social life for them because there were no other blacks for them to date and to socialize, and it made sense to me, then. But there were always Pacific Islanders and they were always popular. They were the best dancers and the best athletes. you're a very attractive lady I don't understand why you didn't have more fun. Obviously the 60s was a different time, even at BYU.
Very articulate young people. Great podcast!
I never understood the festish thing, but I recognized that it happens A LOT. My husband is asian. My 2 SIL gave us a hard time when we started dating, they wanted their brother to date other hmong/asian girls.
They both went off to BYU-I and ended up marrying white men that had both gone on their missions to Japan and Korea. I asked my SIL why they decided to marry white men when they gave us a hard time? They said that the white men treated them better, like gentlemen opening doors for them and such, plus there wasn't very many other hmong asian guys to choose from.
Can you imagine missionaries at the mtc in Provo that were not here legally and still able
To serve somewhere in the us waking up to trump winning and hearing their fellow missionaries happy and boasting … my heart breaks!!
I see where Saane is talking about when it comes to being emotionally mature while being a member, most members that I've been around told me they if I hang with people outside of the church it'll damage my testimony & it's best to only be friends with fellow members, it's very toxic
Why does nate and saane experience at byu. Feels so similar bipoc students experience at weber state university. Please keep doing bipoc stories. 🙏🏼
That's definitely worth an in-depth episode, if not a whole series-how the church emotionally cripples and infantilizes males en masse, forcing their women to carry it for them, often entirely unbeknowst to them.
Didnt grow up as Mormon but listening to the exploitation really resinates with me. I went to a culty university and towards the end I was working 2 full-time jobs for the school as well as a full-time student. Everything was gendered and only two spots on campus were mostly safe for LGBTQ+ People. I am so sorry you all went through being tricked and exploited. It sucks.
Super important episode! So many topics that were addressed to help others. Fantastic episode
I thought that too. As a WOC I thought there would be acceptance in the church and in the YSA award but there was racism. Because that was what everyone was taught from the BOM, scriptures and Prophets. Sad.
I want her to be my therapist!
About fetish :) I’m Ukrainian. White (color wise), but I as well experienced it in terms of culture.
Watching this for the second time and it breaks my heart to hear Nate say that Sa'ane is the exception to the rule :( It's true, I hate that it's true.
I think I remember that part "exemption to the rule", and yes it is heart breaking, but I think it is the truth.
I can not imagine going BYU as POC or liberal
If you think undergrads at BYU are anti immigration you should hear the grads at the J Ruben Clark Law school. Future lawyers and judges being vocal anti-immigration and demeaning immigrants (legal or not). The professors and deans don't care, they don't address those issues with the grads
that is incredibly concerning.
Immigration is completely fine if people come to the United States legally. That doesn’t mean anti immigration.
@@jennifernewton9539 no, the sentiment is the same. They'll pull the ol' "just because you immigrated legally doesn't mean you have to bring all your family here" or "you're just an anchor baby"
If you want to talk legal immigration then let's talk how it can be easier to legally immigrate. Because it is hard and complicated and expensive. Just saying "just come here legally" is dismissive because you don't have to think about it and you don't have to navigate through all the red tape. Have you ever looked at the immigration steps? Do you know which website to go and how to apply? My in law's jaw dropped when i had to explain the process to them, they thought it was a quick process.
At the end of the day these student, undergrad and grad, made no distinction between the two
@@jennifernewton9539No one would be illegally immigrating here if legal immigration was so easy.
Oakland! That was the temple I grew up going too for baptisms of the dead and the visitors center.
Same we did our baptisms for the dead there too
1:03:04 I’d be very curious to find out if other clubs at BYU had funding or paid students for other or similar duties.
What a beautiful episode🥰 the ending gave all the feel goods
I was invited to attend a LDS Church in Australia by a white American missionary boy.
Who is from Utah Salt lake City town.
He handed me a book of mormon
I told him I don't need it in a kind way.
He just gave me the book so I accepted it and thanked him.
1 day
After I decided to do a research on the LDS Church.
I found negative history
-Joseph Smith cult leader polygamous.
Many wives.
Secretly married other mens wives.
Had affairs with 14 year old girls
- the racist teachings about dark skin is a punishment for being wicked and sin.
This turn me off attending the church invite.
I am also Catholic. And I have notified him.
I did end up throwing the Book Of Mormon away because I felt it may have entities prior to finding the racist teachings
I feel so many similarities on the social justice pieces and the loneliness around other Mormon peers.
Fantastic Mormon Story! Thank you for sharing.
John I love the Wicked reference. I see Musicals in your future. Lol
Is there a source that verifies the LDS studies for member retention/encouraging early marriage?
Even my tiny liberal arts college had budgets for each extra curricular or event, that’s somehow surprisingly stingy. (I just heard the episode about how much the church is worth so it’s particularly egregious.)
My heart breaks for you. I got SO TIRED of being told to sit in classes at church, keep my mouth shut, stay silent, and fit in. Nope. Also from Cali, L.a. County, blatantly liberal, well educated. Nope, I wasn't "Mormon" enough! Idiots...
These are 2 favorite episodes
I grew up in Oceanside CA and first became aware of the lds church when my Samoan h.s football coach gave me a BoM
Such a great interview!
I think the unwritten rule is that if you are Pacific Islander, you go to BYU Hawaii unless you are a football player.
It seems like the socially and politically smartest members of any color, end up leaving the church. Saane, you are a wonderful human being. I wish I had known you when I was in university (in the 90s). I’m white and I’ve always felt like an outsider amongst most of the people in my area, because of my progressive views. I guess I’ve never lived in a place like Oakland, so I don’t know what it would be like to live with like-minded people. The isolation is tough.
Saane, if you feel right about it, don't feel afraid to take a rest or a few years to enjoy yourself. God girl, you have worked HARD!!!
Beautiful episode everybody, love ya all.
My heart is bleeding ❤ Thank you for sharing your story
What an inspiring woman. Go Saane.❤❤❤❤❤
"humanity" the kind feelings humans often have to to each other. However when giving humanity you have to be genuine, otherwise the recipient will see through you.
Saane did you get to serve in tubuai? Or raiatea? Maururu roa?
Saale thanks for sharing your story, WHY DON’T YOU WRITE A BOOK ABOUT YOUR STORY ! I would by it !!!
I kept wondering why Nate looked so familiar! Thanks for clarifying what/who the BlackMenaces are 😅😅 those videos used to pop up on my TIKTOK all the time
Don’t just sit there people…hit that LIKE button!!
Butt kisser! 😂😂😂
1:14:04 The thing that makes no sense about patriarchal blessings assigning tribes. Even if it were true that all humanity is descended from one of 12 brothers, by 4000 years later, you likely would have ancestors from many if not all 12 of them at that point. How do they decide?
Interesting perspective
I appreciate this great lesson in culture and race with such a personal touch.
Agree 100 % what she says at the 50 minute mark.
Believe me, had I seen anybody make fun of you were taking "sport" with you I would have smacked him. Had you told any of your Tongan or Samoan athlete friends on campus no telling what they would have done. Those Pacific Islanders are absolutely fearless.
Conversely, I understand what it's like to be lonely at BYU as I was disfellowshipped my senior year for heterosexual fornication and it was pretty bad. But I'm surprised you didn't tell any of those islander athletes because that guy would have been hanging from the goal posts
Can anyone tell me if the Mormons use the Bible or do they only use the Book of Mormon? How does the Bible fit in with the religion?
Mormons do use the Bible. Mormons use both the bible and Book or Mormon. Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. The bible and Book of Mormon both testify of Christ and teach his gospel. Each book support the others teaching. Both describe gods interaction with people in different areas of the world and teach the same principles. They believe Lehi traveled from Jerusalem 600 years before Chist to the Americas. They believe in the Americas they had prophets. Hence the Book of Mormon was written.
The Bible is used. It's considered part of their standard works of scripture. Each year Sunday school cycles between old testament, new testament, book of Mormon, and doctrine & covenants. A whole year is devoted to each book as a focus
We read the bible but there's definitely a lot more emphasis on the BoM. Aside from scripture enthusiasts, Mormons don't read the Bible from start to finish.
The Bible is the Stick of Judah and The Book of Mormon is the Stick of Joseph. In Ezek 37:15-28 the prophet Ezekiel is instructed to inscribe two “sticks” (Hebrew ), one for Judah and one for Joseph, and to unite them in a visual display meant to signify God's intention to reunite the former kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
💜💜💜💜
Sanne, you’re cute! These guys are missing out!
She’s gorgeous, both inside and outside!
Male missionaries were really immature. Couldn’t agree more!
I was never mormon...raised catholic but I completely agree that Jesus is of course pro immigration, pro loving the outcast, pro fighting for the marginalized...I have always been bothered by the disconnect between how people are treated and/or viewed by the church and how Jesus taught us to love and act in love.
And Jesus taught that marriage is between a man and a woman.
That is your opinion.
@@pennamealias It's literally written in the bible lol
So many ads on this one...
Kind of curious why she never pursued anyone 🙇🏻♂️
2:54:00 all those religion requirements at BYU are a waste of time and money, and it led me to not believing in the church. American Heritage (AH) bothered me as well. AH was taught by Jeffrey R. Holland’s son and when he said that Roe v. Wade was the equivalent of legalizing slavery, I was shocked.
This is soooo relatable, being othered and fetishized. Such a yikes. Gratitude for leaving all of that.
Isn't playing load music in a public space "hostile" ?
Don't ya know that if your anything but conservative, especially a liberal or even someone who has independent party type of views for the world we live in on BYU campus makes you automatically ostracized from the environment itself? I can't stand Provo, its like its own planet lightyears from saturn that happened to get stuck on earth for no reason at all 😆
That's funny 😂
9:59 I find it incredibly hard to believe that this pick a name out of a hat dating dare only had not-white girls. I just can’t see that happening. I can see the game in general picking dates that way. That sounds like something Mormons would do. But only having girls that aren’t white? Why? And then when she was mad that someone was interested in her for being Tongan because they went on a mission there, people are framed by their experiences in life. So asking if he would have been into her before that seems irrelevant. People change based on their experiences. That shows that he loved Tonga and and Tongan people. To be offended by that confuses me. Like for an example, I was adopted. I didn’t know my heritage for sure until I took a DNA test at 26. I found out I was half Israeli Jewish. Prior to that I had never had any particular feelings for Israel or Jewish people. I knew about WWII and the holocaust and the Bible and early religion connection but other than that, I never paid any particular interest in Jewish culture or anything. I was absolutely not against them. Just didn’t focus or anything. After finding out my heritage, now I’m hyper aware of anything I hear about Israel or Jewish people and have started studying about them and probably never would have had I not had the experience of learning my heritage. Make sense? Same goes for non cultural things too. Before you buy a certain car, you may never notice them on the road or when you do, you don’t even acknowledge it really. Then you buy that car and all of a sudden you see it everywhere. Also you start learning about that make and model. I mean it’s just simply how people grow as they get older. They stack on more and more experiences that makes them more well rounded, accepting, tolerant, knowledgeable people. Lastly, she was talking about how the only possible reason she wasn’t getting asked out every day had to be because she was Tongan. There was no other possibility. Then in the next breath saying she was out protesting gay marriage openly. I mean…I think that would definitely be a candidate for reasons Mormon guys wouldn’t be into someone. It’s a direct contradiction of their beliefs. So they probably viewed her as less worthy or not having as much of a testimony. It just seems blatantly obvious and I find it sad and unfortunate that she just automatically attributes every percieved action against her being only attributed to her ethnicity and no other option. It sucks that that is how she views things. Not everything has to do with race. It really, really doesn’t. I hope she can understand that as she gets older. Or she will feel depressed and victimized constantly if every single perceived injustice is attributed to that and only that. You just can’t think that way or you live your entire life as a victim. Likely unnecessarily.
2:49:48 I took a course on African studies at a liberal University. The class backfired for many because it was more biased and propogandized than Mormon Curriculum.
For some reason they censor and omit facts like this...
"Some of the first and largest slave owners in America were free black slave owners."
“More whites were brought as slaves to North Africa than blacks brought as slaves to the United States or to the 13 colonies from which it was formed. White slaves were still being bought and sold in the Ottoman Empire, decades after blacks were freed in the United States.” - Thomas Sowell, Harvard educated fellow at Stanford University
"... but the inescapable fact that struck in my craw was: my people (Africans) had sold me... My own people had exterminated whole nations and torn families apart for a profit before the strangers got their chance for a cut. It was a sobering thought." - (Zora Neale Hurston, Black author, anthropologist, and filmaker who portrayed racial struggles in the early 1700s).
"We cannot continue to blame the white men. As Africans, particularly the traditional rulers, are not blameless (Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria)."
"there are millions more in slavery TODAY across Africa and the Middle-East than anytime in America’s history."
John Dehlin, you're gonna find out that the conspiracy theories are true. And sadly, though you mean well, you are doing harm UNKNOWINGLY. Just as TBM's won't touch "anti mormon info", you won't touch "conspiracy theories". How are you different?
John, you broke 1 bubble of the veil (realizing religion is a scam), it's time to realize LIFE IS bubble after bubble after bubble of veils. Life is a series of fractals. With love and gratitude for the good you are doing, - Nathan
As usual, Im riveted by the guests and entirely cringed out by John. He’s done well with Mormonism but he has a lot more socio/political deconstructing to do. It’s problematic.
I feel like both guests are looking for things to complain about. No one is out to get them.
Lots of people have had similar experiences to them that was my experience. Just because it wasn’t your does nit invalidate them.
I'd love to hear from Sa'ane in a few years. I hope she doesn't see whiteness from a strictly Mormon view.
36:30 Quite presumptive to assume someone is referring to immigrants as criminals when all hey said was they lock their doors to protect the people inside from people outside. Like the entire purpose for locks. I just keep hearing example after example of her making every single thing about race.
You are trying to remodel the LDS. Bible says come out from among them
Coffee
12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others-and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matthew 19:12 there are scholars who assert that “eunuch” may refer to a wide range of non-binary sexual procli.
Read Mathew Mark Luke and john to find the real Jesus
Well spoken
good show today I love the participants. However, you should stay out of politics, you don’t know what it is, all about. Also, I don’t like the Republicans and I don’t like the Democrats. Totally independent.
It seems like asking Saane to not talk about politics at all would be forcing her to not address a crucial part of her story. Everything is political and to allow people to be authentic in telling their story, you have to allow them to talk about politics to a certain extent.
Who is the "you" in that statement? Saane? MSP? both? Anything specific that makes you say that "you don't know what it is all about" ? She comes across as far more astute than many others her age.
@@veronica_sawyer0188 it’s okay to talk about politics,if you know what you are talking about. I like her as a young intelligent woman .
@@elijahhawaii / John Dehlin and
Saane are very smart, well educated individuals but they don’t know the specifics in politics, therefore don’t talk about it.
@hbendzulla8213 what specifically from them causes you to say that?
Almost 5 hours long!!!!! I'd rather watch Dances with Wolves.
Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split ya
Good one!@@Runitup84