Ellee Duke and Auz Engemann Part 1 - Our Mormon Story - 1624
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Singer songwriter Ellee Duke and her husband Auz Engemann share what life was like growing up in affluent (even idyllic) Mormon communities (Provo and Draper, Utah) and why they decided to eventually distance themselves from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Ellee explains how she got her start in music, why she turned down American idol, and what challenges she had to overcome to finally bring her career into alignment with what she truly wanted-without losing herself in the expectations of others.
Other topics include Auz’ connections to big names like Larry King, David and the Osmonds, his struggle with Adderall addiction, the dangers of bishop roulette, and Ellee losing her gay uncle to suicide.
Pt 2: • Ellee Duke and Auz Eng...
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Show Notes:
Ellee’s TikTok & instagram handles: @elleeduke / elleeduke , elleeduke?...
Web site: www.elleeduke.com/
Paul Cardall MS Episode: mormonstories.org/podcast/pau...
Jessie Funk MS Episode: mormonstories.org/podcast/fro...
The house that built me, Miranda Lambert: open.spotify.com/track/02eD9y...
Lift me out - Paul Cardall, Worth of Souls: • Ashley Hess - Worth of...
Mindy Gledhill - All the Pennies: open.spotify.com/track/7ljMI1...
Mindy Gledhill MS Episodes mormonstories.org/podcast/min...
Tyler Glenn MS Episode: mormonstories.org/podcast/tyl...
Wayne Sermon MS Episode: mormonstories.org/podcast/way...
Sarah Sample MS Episode: mormonstories.org/podcast/sar...
Ellee Duke the Singer Who Said No to American Idol: www.deseret.com/2014/4/28/205...
Suzanne Barnes (Mom): suzannebarn...
Ellee’s video with her Mom playing her new song for her www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRkojm1g/?k=1
00:00 Introduction
17:49 Ellee Duke on growing up intensely Mormon
23:30 Young women modesty responsibility, bikini story
34:09 Start of music lessons and writing songs as a kid
36:15 Artistic influences
46:30 Noticing sexism, feeling less esteemed as a woman
50:00 Praise & and pressure to represent Church in manners & career
54:00 Tradition of Mormon celebrities
59:15 Harmful purity culture messaging “smashed cupcake lesson” makes her terrified of sex.
1:09:00 Trying out for American Idol & subsequently turning it down. Meeting Harry Connick Jr, JLo, Toby Keith, Ryan Seacrest
1:25:00 DIY’ing her career with her Mom. Writing 400 songs before 18
1:40:10 Auz’ story begins. Grandpa managing Marie Osmond. Dad was a rock/pop artist, mom was an actress/model in NY. Parents got into interior design. Larry King is Uncle
1:57:25 Mormon upbringing.
2.02.50 Childhood depression, high school years. Teen Drug use in Utah.
2:17:30 Growing up in Provo Mormon culture
2:22:00 Mission Call to Orlando solidifies testimony.
2:29:50 Auz explains he got addicted to Adderall in high school. Had quit cold turkey due before a mission w/help of then-girlfriend. Starts Adderall again after mission.
2:33:00 Deciding on film career
2:39:00 Cycling in & out of Adderall addiction. Stopped when he met Ellee.
2:46:00 Privilege & affluence in Mormonism. Success & drive in children
2:50:52 Depression, anxiety, affluence, prescription drug abuse etc relationship to suicide
2:54:00 Ellee’s brother first to leave the Church, causes Ellee to hunker down as a good girl.
3:00:00 Importance of being able to have healthy views/relationships with drugs to minimize demonizing it for those who need it
#MormonStories #LDS #Mormon #PostMormon #ExMormon #Religion #education
I am not Mormon, but am addicted to your podcasts. This is about the fifth one I've listened to. I think you are such a respectful, thoughtful and kind interviewer. I really admire your style.
Yes, most of Mormon are this way, that is what they encourage soft spoken and do not use bad words , be gentle etc etc… so after being in this church you learn and change to be just like that, one of the things I personally love about the church. Another thing I love was that in dances man were not drinking or smoking and were very polite.
Interesting. Larry King always said the key to great interviews is to ask great questions and then get out of the way. He seldom if ever talked about himself or his opinions. Tough to do but he did it masterfully. Anyway, this is an outstanding couple whose curiosity for life keeps leading them out of narrow conventions - including the church and it’s culture. Tough to do but they do it with grace and grit. Thanks John.
I worked as a production assistant for the Salt Lake American Idol auditions that year and I remember you!!! My job was to assist the judges so I was able to watch the "official" auditions that were in front of the judges. I remember being hopeful for you (a mormon girl who reminded me of T Swift) to make it big when you made it to Hollywood.
I hadn't kept up with any of this so it was cool to realize I remembered you! Very powerful story and I love the new music. Also, I love how you were strong enough to leave BMR...and then a few years later T Swift did the same because they weren't treating her well...😳 Way to go!!
As someone that has adhd and take ritalin for my symptoms, it does not feel like it is described here. I have not tried adderol, but I guess its pretty much the same. When I take my ritalin I feel normal. Without it is like trying to go through life in a constant panic attack. I dont notice it until the meds kick in, when my shoulders relax, my fists unclench, my jaw relaxes and all of a sudden people talking to me sound loud and clear and not like far away through a crackling old radio. I can get up and just do stuff, not spend ages feeling useless because I cant stop doom scrolling on social media. And I can enjoy interacting with others without constant worry about saying something stupid, interrupting or missing parts of their stories. I just get to be normal. Im still my weird self, but I function and get to be happy. And if I forget and take my meds twice (it has happened two times in 17 years) I get heart palpatations and feel nausea. So if its the right medication for you, it is just good medicine. Helping. And I know it does not work like this for all with adhd, so if it doesnt work that doesnt mean you dont have adhd.
Thays strange. Are you sure you're not taking xanax instead of ritalin? Im being facetious, but that's an unexpected reaction.
@@lvega5606 Yes, Im sure. 😂
When someone has ADHD stimulants like Aderral or ritalin don’t effect you the same way as a non-ADHF brain. ADHD brains have a low baseline of dopamine, that feel good chemical, so for an ADHD brain we the incease in dopamine is bringing that low baseline up to a more “normal” level. We don’t feel “high” taking stimulants.
My wife is from Scotland and 60 years old. She was crazy about Donnie Osmond, had posters on her wall. She says their popularity made people very open to meeting with the missionaries when they came around.
I wonder if Mormonism is ever going to get another artist or musician with as much cachet as the Osmonds were able to achieve. I suspect not due to the information age we live in, but perhaps a celebrity popular enough could make it happen again someday?
I knew someone at school, eastern USA, who joined I think in junior high, because she loved Donny Osmond. She went to BYU. From what I heard, she came home early and eventually I heard she left the LDS church (don't know if off records or if she went to the Temple) and returned to Catholic church
The mention of Animotion just brought back all of my 1980's big hair high school memories!
Listen, here is the true cupcake analogy. You are the cupcake. If you have good, conscentual experienses you add some spice, some frosting and some sprinkles to your life. The cupcake can be ruined, but only by others biting you or pounding you. And even then you can rise back up, fill with sweet jam or rearrange to become a cake pop and be amazing. And positive, empowering experiences create new frosting and sprinkles in life. The moral of the story is abuse is not ok, dont bite or hit without conscent. And appreciate sprinkles and rainbow frosting!
I’ve never been a Mormon, but I was a public Scientologist for many years. I was also addicted to adderall in my 20s. Before scientology. Adderall turned me into someone I didn’t know. I ended up getting arrested. If I wanted to stay out of jail and not have a criminal record I had to give up adderall. It was so hard. I felt like I wasn’t good enough for myself without all the dopamine. I am now religion and adderall free in my early 40s. I got a college degree in my 30s WITHOUT adderall. I have a successful career doing IT network consulting work in telecom with private and public sector orgs. High demand lifestyle with no adderall. Could talk about the BITE aspects and culty-ness of corporations all day long but Auz’s story is so real. Thank you all so much for this. Can’t wait to watch part 2.
That's AMAZING! What a journey you must have had through all of that.
I'm amazed at how many are relating to the Adderall addiction parts of their stories. I had no idea how many people this affected. Thanks for sharing!
@@mormonstoriesp lol 123$ no but my P j by I lol
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Wow, well, this was a straight up trip through a time machine. Pearl Drops, Animotion, Larry King on TV watching with my Dad, American Idol with the judges not so long ago... Great episode. Thanks to these two beautiful people for sharing their stories and to the beautiful Sam for always adding to the conversation with such thoughtful articulation on the topics. Off to watch part 2.❤️❤️
Let’s GO, so excited for the world to hear from these beautiful humans!!!!!
i keep coming back to auz's story. i do not come from money, but i really relate to not having goals or wants, and struggling to "find myself"/authenticity well into my 30's. luckily i never developed an addiction, but i have dissociated with weed - it's related to me being lost in this world and being disconnected from my intuition. i've been focusing on connecting to myself but it's a slow process that includes a lot of grief work... i wish i didn't have to remember my childhood.
i'm listening to this episode again. john talked about the comfort crisis, which to me sounds like the flipside to survival mode. in order to thrive you have to self actualize/find your true self, and this is very difficult because you have to examine the beliefs you have about yourself, your family and society. this all requires that you look at your childhood with a critical eye, and many people emotionally can't do it. not to mention being your true self, saying yes to yourself, means saying no to the people that you love/people who depend on you.
Growing up with wreath or upper middle class is NOT a disadvantage. It’s about how you raise your children. If you have the resources it is your responsibility as a parents to create a safe and encouraging environment. It is your responsibility to help your children set reasonable expectations about life.
It doesn’t create happy. Lack of money definitely leads to sadness, depression and potentially suicide.
Yes, the hymn Bednar wrote is called, "If You Think You're Good Enough to Get to Heaven, You're Wrong. "
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Lol!
So gross
I went to high school with Ellee! Such a beautiful person inside and out. So inspiring💖
Me:
"I can't believe John let Auz' reference to his mission in Orlando get by without mentioning TBoM The Musical".
John, 2 seconds later:
🎵 "Orlando!" 🎵
🤣🤣🤣😅
As someone with adhd that genuinely needs drugs to actually function, it's so wild to me to hear what the experience is for non adhders who take the drugs. Absolutely mind blowing.
Adderall was one of the first few meds I tried before actually finding something that worked for me. I HATED IT. It wasn't my worst side effects I'd gotten in my search, but they came close. Where I normally have 5 different windows open, each with multiple tabs each, and would sleep when they weren't at the forefront of my mind, I could suddenly hold a maximum of 2 windows, no tabs, and it could shut down randomly, without warning. My energy spiked in a bad way, and nothing could hold my attention. My anxiety/ptsd were extremely exasterbated and everything was just absolutely horrible.
Verses the medication I have found that actually works for me. It redistribute my energy levels so it's more level rather than huge spikes with multiple recovery days where nothing can happen. I can focus on what I want when I want and actually get up and do things just because I want to. To anyone without adhd, that doesn't make sense. But it's like there's a thick glass between me and the things I want to do, everyone else doesn't have it, but I do, and its removed that glass so I can do things now. Mundane things, like chores, homework and self care, as well as pursuing hobbies and knowledge that sparks my interests.
Can I ask what meds worked for you? My daughter is going through this as well 😢
What meds worked for you? I haven’t found something for ADHD, but I have for depression/mood stability which is Caplyta. I actually went high school with Auz (who went by Austin then) and I knew several of his friends and I know some of them got into Adderall. One of them ended up in jail for being a predator. It’s interesting to see how his life was and how it is now cuz I didn’t know him that well, more knew some of his friends.
We’re going to mess up & it’s going to be ok.
Words to live by.
Excellent podcast John and Shelly. These two wonderful young people have so much to share and contribute to society from their lives really excites me. I wish they could do a non-Mormon Fireside for young adults and travel the country with their spirits of joy. Think of how many young Mormons would still be alive after hearing these two and their message of hope. ❤️💜❤️💜
Another enlightening interview. Thank you for this program and interview. Learning so much! God bless and peace to you all❤️
What a beautiful couple! This is what a healthy relationship looks like!
Oh my god the Pepperwood parties, I went to them at the end of school every school year in high school too 😂😂😂 I remember struggling to scrounge up the money to pay for a ticket there, you weren’t cool at 16 if you didn’t go 😂
In the Bay Area where I live we see children from high achieving homes are jumping off the GG Bridge or in front of Cal Train. I think we have thrown balance out and are farther and farther away from our base as hunter/ gatherers. When we don’t have a Ying-Yang and think money makes us happy. My friends husband is a SFPO and his beat is the bridge. It’s a tragedy that oftentimes is swept under the rug
Fabulous conversation!
Animotion had 2 very distinct eras. "Obsession" was a hit in the early 80s, before the version that Paul Engemann was in. The hit he sang on would have been "Room to Move". Both great songs.
Totally agree with you John - affluence is hard on kids - the easier softer way. Harder upbringings can be a total advantage not having things handed to you.
antidepressants, drugs (coping) or suicidal why : 2:04 my journey has taught me that we get that way bc we are socialized away from having a voice and saying anything back to them authentically, beginning from early childhood right , then that became my way to heal actually, to say it directly (speak out and up ), to the person, push back, and get it out of me, to prevent me from being crushed again
Hi Ellee & Auz,
Thank you for talking about your addictions. I want to say how grateful I am how the discussion emphasized how dangerous ALCOHOL is.
Don't misunderstand me everyone I agree with how dangerous all the drugs discussed are, but alcohol is number 1 in my opinion and experiences.
Off to hear part 2 now. Thank you too John & Samantha for sharing your experiences and the importance of the danger of bloody ALCOHOL.
Dyslexic Chick.
Thank you for the song it is awesome and I believe very necessary after the world-wide pandemic we've have. (covid-flu leaves you with asthma on purpose, my opinion that is unproven). I am awe-struck at the wisdom, empathy, compassion, knowledge of how the world "should be" Ellee & Auz, Thank you. I cannot wait to see what Auz creates and of course more powerful music from Ellee.
Huge hugs and love.
As a mom, what’s capturing my attention here is this aspect of “goodness”’coming from outside validation. We aren’t showing / telling our kids they’re intrinsically good. It’s something to consider as a mom, to watch for ways I teach my kids their goodness isn’t innate. I don’t want to be that mom.
That's so wonderful! I think it's easy to take for granted what we think our children know and what we think we are teaching them.
I'm an ex Jehovahs Witness and saw your interview with JT and Lady Cee and it was awesome! Yeah JW's and Mormons are like second cousins and I love it. lol So yeah JT and Lady Cee brought me here and I'm subbed and shared and it's amazing learning about the mormons and all the crazy stuff all of us dealt with in our religion cult. Much love and respect to you and your channel and all your guests! A+++++ Thumbs Up always and shared! : )
Thanks for checking us out! I love that more of us are getting to know each other's stories.
Oh and Shawn and Cam Clarke, Lex De Azevedo's brother are best friends. I was a big fan of the King Family Show when I was growing up. Cam puts a lot of clips on his facebook page. He keeps that whole era alive for us King Family fans.
I grew up in the 70s in New Zealand and loved Donny and Marie but didn't have a clue they were Mormon or even what Mormonism was.
Damn I wanted to hop in there and say that round really does slap lol get me on this show
Though the Church likes to use celebrity it is a double edged sword for it. David Archuleta in being open about himself and his struggles exposes the LDS quandary about people who don’t fit the heteronormative mold. I was a student at BYU Hawaii when the Osmonds had a big engagement in Honolulu. They were to come to campus and perform for the college community. We students were totally excited about this, only to be disappointed. Their campus concert was cancelled by the President because the length of their hair did not fit campus standards. So the Church wants to have its cake and eat it!
Wait there's a BYU in Hawaii? WOW 😳
The kid being shocked yiu knew his dads song ?! Lol what?! I loved that song in middle school!!
2:52 yes it is more difficult to be brought up with affluence bc it becomes all about the external things while repressing the emotions, rather than going inward experiencing all the painful emotions and finding inner peace and self love and self acceptance; let us talk about what is triggering each of us and start there
Auz, I grew up in the Studio City Ward. Karl and Bob Engemann were in that ward, along with Lex DeAzevedo and the King Sisters.
INteresting that Southern Baptist churches and the small Baptist churches have died because of the advent of the giant evangelical churches. Now many of those mega churches are starting to shrink. All because the youth started waking up and leaving.
I totally remember the conversation about the east side and west side. For me, I grew up in Centerville and my friends and I would talk about how we would never marry someone on the other side of the tracks, like people who lived in Woods Cross for example. And of course people who were on the other side of I-15. We would go on dates, but never marry! And encouraged by our parents with that as well.
The Bountiful temple is on the East side, so that was the side, the guys, the families etc to aim for.
Well I ended up marrying someone from Woods Cross and now we live there as well.
I love our neighborhood and it’s really nice, we have a pool and parks etc. I couldn’t afford to move into our neighborhood now with how much it would cost.
Majority Mormon, but more and more are leaving. There are those who judge and those who still love me for me. I’m pretty lucky. ❤️
wow! where do you guys find your guests?! a very interesting couple. i need to spend some time journaling. these interviews always give me something to think about.
Boy are these two gorgeous! 😍😍
Great interview but totally miss the time stamps on these episodes.
Coming soon!!!
My niece Emily married Auz’s uncle Ryan :) Shameless namedrop ☺️
I grew up in Bountiful and was always told that we were the snobs. I loved Bountiful and we still live here. Pepperwood is or was a gated community. My daughter lived there for a few years. Bountiful is a crazy congested mess now.
I watched Donny and Marie. I don't remember them ever talking about their religion on the show, but I do remember wondering about why Donny and his wife married so young and next you knew he was a father. Marie actually waited until she was 22 and clearly was conflicted about giving up her career. Her marriage ended after three years, I think. And then she married again rather quickly which I thought was strange. But now I get what they were up to.
Yes, I watched the show. They never mentioned lds on the show, but everyone knew they were Mormon. I wasn't LDS back then..
Thank you for putting me his link in the short.
I live in La Junta Colorado, population 7k ish and we've had an LDS for years, now they've built another more "office" looking church. It's perplexing because I NEVER really see them. 🤷♀️
In Sweden we had a group in the 80's named Herreys, they were big back then and even bigger after they won Eurovision Song Contest 1984. They were Mormons and because of them many people joined the church.
Wow i went on a few dates in highschool with Tina Coles son one of the daughters of one of the Kings Sisters. Tina was in our ward in N California when I was in HS in the mid 80’s
Totally remember when Austin (Auz) was a baby. His parents started a business called “Austin Go Boston”. I remember when his parents lived in the Engemann’s basement. They invited me over once and I was blown away by their cosmopolitan style
About how life may at times be harder when more financially stable or comfortable or too easy…
Q: What’s the best source of INspiration?
A: DESperation !!
Necessity is indeed the mother of invention.
I like how John said Magna… MAGna! Lol
I was largely influenced by the Osmond wave in the UK. I had kept some memorabilia until I found out they supported Trump. I then got donated to the car boot sale.
Lol! Love it 😀
I work with kids 0-6 years old, as a kindergarten teacher, and in my experience, it is not very common for kids to have anxiety. They might have fears, struggle with parents leaving etc., but few have general anxiety. I wonder if kids growing up within heavily religious families and societies experience more anxiety than others.
I am totally going back to watch Scarface again
Very interesting. The drug stuff needs to be better explained.
Can church also be like a drug addiction? It makes you feel like you can’t live without it or be the “perfect saint” you were meant to be? When your getting love bombed your on a high & when you mess up & drink a coffee your on a low.
I’ve thought of that before a lot!
I am a UK Christian and Osmond fan for over 50 years. Many many UK fans of Osmonds joined Mormonism. Not to dis them but it was in teenage innocence. The Osmond family I love deeply, but I am fascinated by the deeper things about Mormonism I just cannot agree with ie LGBTQ issues, black people treated differently for years, women expected to have babies for time and all eternity and share you husband with a zillion wives for eternity. No sorry it is wrong. You don't need to pay to be with the Lord. ♥️
Love especially your last sentence..
Sounds to me as if his family were the "Jones" so he was just there and had very little to do. That can be very rough on a kid in a diverse social setting.
More detail regarding that "chat with God," please. A favorable, supernatural result, as apparently in Austin's case, following a prayer regarding an addiction, is definitely an elusive thing in the LDS Church. What was different about this case, about Austin's concept of God and Faith, including as pertaining to the fallacy of Earned Grace (as taught in the LDS Church), in Austin's view?
Just had a 💡
When someone, in this case Joseph S, has such a phenomenon: a compelling and overwhelming encounter with Light, it can shock, like a current. Everyone realizes something of Epic Proportion has once again seized our world. In otherwords, it creates both fear and euphoria. (Telltale marks of Intrusion, btw). An explosion into the world, people naturally cling for solid things: ideas, firm convictions. Others swim. Almost playing like dolphins. Many ways to survive the Whirlwind of Heavenly Father. Jonah got eaten by a Whale, just sayin...
If anyone watching this needs to go to any recovery from ANYTHING, check out CR or Celebrate Recovery. It is a christian version of AA with a 12 step program and chips. You don't have to do the 12 steps or chips either. You can just go and be in a small group. It is for any habit you don't like, any addiction, or any trauma you are trying to get out of your mind/body.
Do they take insurance?
Damn!! Ads every 8 minutes!!! What’s going on!?!?
The attitude/belief system of righteous superiority based on fabricated information is on of the most toxic things that this entire country is dealing with.
Damn, I hate it when they sing! 🤢 Fucking earworms! Love yeah anyway MSP.
You made an interesting statement John, that every church in the US is having trouble hanging on to its young people. That was a true statement however there is a major difference between the Mormon youth who leave, and the Protestant youth who no longer attend. In the case of the Mormon youth it is a concious decision based upon finding out that the church is false. According to Lifeway Research, in 2019, 71% of those protestant youth ( who are now 23-30 years old ) who no longer attended church said that their leaving was not an intentional decision, but a result of a life change, moving, job change, going to college, etc. , and not a change of belief or loss of faith.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. I wonder if part of that can be attributed to how much the Mormon Church wants the lives of its youth to revolve almost entirely around the Church versus Protestant churches playing a lesser role?
Catholic too..Maybe even Jewish...however, many will come back upon marriage and children..
It seems like Mormon culture is very much based in prosperity culture.
It absolutely is. That’s all it is here, hence why the poor are looked down on. I went to high school with Austin, and our high school was most definitely wealthy, “righteous,” 🙄 fake, disingenuous, etc. I hated growing up in Provo. I came from a traumatic family history so I had a very different experience from him because I was dealing with so much abuse at home that I couldn’t really care about parties and stuff because my home issues and pain was too great. Idk. Interesting to hear from someone who came from the same place as me, but had a very different upbringing.
She said there was diversity... LOL
I am not a Mormon but a father of a daughter. Listing to Elle talk about she tweeted about not kissing anyone and being proud… yeah can’t say I’d be upset!!
Interesting. Why is that?
If you have sons, would you feel the same way for them?
Like……fer sure….like is a word way overused by the youth
Normally easy to listen to this show but todays guest said “like” “like” about three times every minute 🤦🏻♀️ had to turn off
You must not have young adults in your life
@@rh3473 luckily I’m blessed with several 💕
@@junejune1031 must be nice that they speak so perfectly.
@@rh3473 oh they don’t speak perfectly at all!!
They are soooo millennial, it transpires so much.