Right, that's like watching Star Wars episodes 1, 2 &3 first, you spoil the biggest twist of the series by doing so. By reading the new testament first, you get to ask yourself 'why the fuck do people need to be saved, and what do they need to be saved from?' first, then you read the old testament, and eventually you get to ask yourself 'why do so many people believe this shit?'
He never answered the bitter watter point. Just moved past it. If life is so sacred then why does God support inducing miscarriage? You should have kept on that imo
God is a metaphysical necessary being. That is to say that God exsist beyond Time, Space and Matter, therefore God does not have a cause. God is the first uncaused cause. Whatever begins to exsist has a cause. Something can not come into being without a cause. It is impossible for a timeless, spaceless, immaterial being to come into existence. So God exsist in a uncreated way. Atheist have always said this about the universe(matter, energy are eternal and uncaused), but now believe the cause of the universe is of a external transcendent cause, in the light of astrophysic cosmology. If you exsist without TIME(time is the measure of change), that means you never change. If you exsist without MATTER, that means you are immaterial(you can not be touched, tasted, smelled or seen). You are not made of matter. If you exsist without SPACE(you are spaceless, omni present, everywhere. Not bound by space restrictions). So something ETERNAL, OMNIPRESENT and IMMATERIAL, created Time, Matter and Space. So something that ALWAYS EXSITED, that is invisible untouchable and everywhere, created matter, time and space. What does that sound like to you? In order for everything to have been created, we need something that has always existed. God always existed and always will exsist! Which God is it? I am unapologetically Christian(The Bible predicted/s the future many times! No other religion does that) Created in the image of God, not apes You materialist will conveniently act like "good little boys" and play in the messy middle. You guys never want to speak on "origins" you and I both know you would have to resort to magic with either claim whether it be of God or "something" coming from "nothing" you guys reject laws of logic and laws of nature. Even when you guys start with "nothing", your notions of "nothing" are screwed. You guys come up with "psuedo nothing" where you start with not "nothing" but "something" like "quantum foam" or other energy sources. We cant even understand what "nothing" would actually look like... if you think of absolutely "nothing" you first probably think of just darkness or a vast empty void of darkness but that is surely "something" not "nothing" You laugh and scoff at Christian's for believing in a all powerful creator and call God a fairytale. "Something" coming from absolutely "nothing" creating matter, energy, and atoms that eventually just bounced around the cosmos and exploding creating our solar sytem and aligning itself perfectly to support life and eventually creating a life force which through natural selection has apparently progressed to the human experience that we have today that embodies consciousness, sense of self, remorse, love, hatred, happiness, and everything in between. You believe in just as much of a FAIRYTALE. You guys will call anything that you cant explain away in a materialist worldview a "illusion" you guys are "delusional" and represent hypocrisy at it's highest level. Get off you intellectual pedestal and stop laughing at people's foundations of truth. You know nothing. The amount of knowledge to be acquired in the cosmos is infinite. You claim to have progressed on the scale of infinite knowledge. If knowledge is Infinite, how can you claim to be superior in thought and intellect? Bend your neck of "reason " and admit you are just so small in comparison to infinity. If you can create just 1 atom from absolutely "nothing" you will be closest to God in wisdom. But you cant. No one can.
When my grandmother was in hospice care she couldn't track even what year it was. She was calling my father by a nick name he had not had since childhood and she was talking about working on the family farm (something she had not done in 70 years) like it was currently happening.
"How many animals were on Noah's ark?" One of my friends tried to answer this question while she was Christian. After doing all the math she realized the ark would've broke...she's not Christian these says...
That's the problem with Christianity. It's spiritually true but it also presented itself as materially true. That's why so many people who were christian but never understand it left it.
shizotericar Not really. Everyone goes through questioning the material truth of the bible and the spiritual truth of the bible before leaving. Oftentimes only the spiritual truth because they never saw the bible as a factual recording of events but as stories that serve as analogies for a deeper truth. Most leave when they realise that the moral lessons told through the bible oftentimes are completely incompatible with the morals they started to adopt themselves by interacting with their environment and experiencing life.
I do like this question because I keep track of it and have had seven adults say "Well over a million". When I found that absurd I had one guy say twenty-five million.
When I was a good Christian 13 year old my mom told me to read the NT(plus psalms plus proverbs) before I read the OT... something about Jesus being more important than Moses.,,
My old pastor usually recommends that new believers start in the new testament when they read the Bible, specifically the book of John. I assumed it's seen as a proper introduction (for lack of better phrase) into the Christian faith.
My old pastor usually recommends that new believers start in the new testament when they read the Bible, specifically the book of John. I assume it's seen as a proper introduction (for lack of better phrase) into the Christian faith.
There are other metaphysical systems that make the existence of some concrete entities necessary without implying that there are any necessarily existing concrete things. In his Tractatus phase, Ludwig Wittgenstein takes a world to be a totality of facts. A fact consists of one or more objects related to each other in a certain way. By an act of selective attention, we concentrate on just the objects or just the relations. But objects and relations are always inextricably bound up with each other. Since every fact requires at least one object, a world without objects would be a world without facts. But a factless world is a contradiction in terms. Therefore, the empty world is impossible.
I have a new plot for a sci fi movie in which everything is being sucked into the conjoined black holes in the universe, and after our heroes fail and their universe disappears into the combined universal singularity, the singularity starts collapsing in on itself and ends in our "big bang". The end.
@@ceedubya4634 some epic cgi space destruction scenes, yknow, failed attempts at galaxy wide magnetic arrays, planets getting crunched by sucked in space debris, suns pulled in igniting solar systems. Stuff like that.
This is old... but oh do i wish i had seen this when it was live! I was in a coma with a less than 10% chance of living.. i could hear and feel everything. When i was 'closest to death' there was this blissful nothing. Like the deepest of sleep. It's nothing to be afraid of. I also worked in hospice as well as was a ff/EMT for most my adult life. How this guy gets his ideas from is beyond me. Ignorance is my best guess. I mean that in an honest way, not trying to insult. I wish i could converse with people like this honestly though. I've had a lot of experiences they spoke on.
I find it so strange when people say stuff like, "death is nothing to be afraid of". Avoiding deadly injury is almost the entire point of fear. It signals your brain that danger is near.
@@Jeremy-hx7zj lol, I didn't say I was eager to fn die. That's a really weird takeaway from what I said. Tbf, it's the internet so context is often lost on me as well. I wasn't in anyway trying to imply I was eager to die, nor that I wasn't afraid of the process of dying. Everyone fears a painful death, I would think anyway. I'm only saying, I've been through a lot. I've seen death on repeat, I've survived cancer, a coma, & multiple surgeries including brain surgery for chiari malformation & hydrocephalus. When you live through that & are told the chances of dying are high, at some point you just learn to accept it. Most people with my condition tend to die in their sleep or during surgery. That seems peaceful to me. I'm not eager to die, I have two kids to raise. I'm fighting to live, hints the friggin surgeries. Lol. I'm just not afraid of being dead. I'm not afraid of a hell, or some scary after death thing. -I probably over explained now, sorry. Hope it makes more sense now tho. Have a good one!
@@ShinyNix86 yeah, you're not afraid of being dead. That's what's weird to me. There are so many things I want to experience before I die. Once you're dead, your story is over. Sounds like you've lived a full life, so I kinda get it. But my life has intensely dull and lonely, full of failure to achieve my goals. If I find myself "being dead" tomorrow, my life was a total waste of time. Might as well have skipped the entire thing.
this was so completely off the rails that nobody even questioned the actual insane assertion that 2 BILLION people died during WWII seriously, usually off the rails debates/arguments/conversations where someone is obviously unable to handle or understand whats going on and is upset about it is super funny, or maybe even sad in a silly way, but this was just absolutely ridiculous. this g-man dude is insane, an actual toddler.
Honestly baffling that anyone believes in any form of magic. There literally hasn't been a single incident of something supernatural being proven under scientific conditions in all of human history
Here's some facts from me, as a very deeply religious person. Everyone, no matter how religious, atheistic or antitheistic they are, IS agnostic. No ands ifs or buts, We don't know, And it takes humility and character for someone to admit to that fact, And those are properties pretty much every side of any religious debate lack. chose your religion or lack there of because it coincides with the morals you already have, don't let a few out of context quotes as an excuse for shitty behavior. Be excellent to eachother, And i'm sure that if there is a god out there, they'd be happier for it, And if there isn't a god, well then, you still were a kind person, And that's nothing but a net plus.
People use religion to mistreat women, gay people and trans people. The Bible encourages genocide and slavery. There is nothing moral about religion. Religion is the reason most countries still treat women badly. Religion is cruel and barbaric.
@ the 23:00 mark the guy who claims to know stuff about the brain says you can't really rely on the brain because its unreliable, and that people don't really have a view of reality. So he actually made the point that atheist can't really rely on their own conclusions or anything they think at all.... Dang that's some confusing stuff right there. Better start reading the Bible, and understand it.
Disregarding it completely is not the answer, and even less is believing in an old book because "ooh got you you said you can't rely on yourself so rely on my old book".
I think he talks about perception; sometimes you process information wrongly, like seing a B while it was D, and even allucinations. You could hear things that aren't there.
Lol why don't you look at his videos going through the bible exactly like you said he "needs" to? Because you are scared you might learn what he did ;)
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I like learning new things. All of these intelligent people just conversing is really enjoyable. Thanks to all those involved and Jake for posting :)
Right, that's like watching Star Wars episodes 1, 2 &3 first, you spoil the biggest twist of the series by doing so.
By reading the new testament first, you get to ask yourself 'why the fuck do people need to be saved, and what do they need to be saved from?' first, then you read the old testament, and eventually you get to ask yourself 'why do so many people believe this shit?'
A tip : watch movies on Flixzone. Been using them for watching loads of movies lately.
@Zander Alijah Definitely, been watching on Flixzone for months myself =)
@Zander Alijah Yup, have been using Flixzone for years myself =)
@Zander Alijah definitely, I have been using flixzone for since december myself :D
Jake, you big dummy starting at the beginning of the book.
Zac M how dare he.
Everyone knows you start in the middle of a book 😒 I'm disappointed in you Jake. 😘❤
in medias res exists for a reason, duh
But Jake, have you read the bible?
If only he had someone to study with...
He never answered the bitter watter point. Just moved past it. If life is so sacred then why does God support inducing miscarriage? You should have kept on that imo
>"Well I've never even been with a woman."
Showoff.
i love how a lot of current athests know more about the bible then bible thumpers
Wiimote Cat like many others, further diving into the Bible helped in de-converting me
"Have you ever read the bible?"
I laughed so hard I died and got a resurerection
Of all the people to ask that question to!
Well hello jesus
Big thanks to Bats and Flevir for being in the chat with us the whole time!
It was really fun, I was happy to be there!
God is a metaphysical necessary being. That is to say that God exsist beyond Time, Space and Matter, therefore God does not have a cause. God is the first uncaused cause. Whatever begins to exsist has a cause. Something can not come into being without a cause. It is impossible for a timeless, spaceless, immaterial being to come into existence. So God exsist in a uncreated way. Atheist have always said this about the universe(matter, energy are eternal and uncaused), but now believe the cause of the universe is of a external transcendent cause, in the light of astrophysic cosmology. If you exsist without TIME(time is the measure of change), that means you never change. If you exsist without MATTER, that means you are immaterial(you can not be touched, tasted, smelled or seen). You are not made of matter. If you exsist without SPACE(you are spaceless, omni present, everywhere. Not bound by space restrictions). So something ETERNAL, OMNIPRESENT and IMMATERIAL, created Time, Matter and Space. So something that ALWAYS EXSITED, that is invisible untouchable and everywhere, created matter, time and space. What does that sound like to you? In order for everything to have been created, we need something that has always existed. God always existed and always will exsist! Which God is it? I am unapologetically Christian(The Bible predicted/s the future many times! No other religion does that) Created in the image of God, not apes
You materialist will conveniently act like "good little boys" and play in the messy middle. You guys never want to speak on "origins" you and I both know you would have to resort to magic with either claim whether it be of God or "something" coming from "nothing" you guys reject laws of logic and laws of nature. Even when you guys start with "nothing", your notions of "nothing" are screwed. You guys come up with "psuedo nothing" where you start with not "nothing" but "something" like "quantum foam" or other energy sources. We cant even understand what "nothing" would actually look like... if you think of absolutely "nothing" you first probably think of just darkness or a vast empty void of darkness but that is surely "something" not "nothing" You laugh and scoff at Christian's for believing in a all powerful creator and call God a fairytale. "Something" coming from absolutely "nothing" creating matter, energy, and atoms that eventually just bounced around the cosmos and exploding creating our solar sytem and aligning itself perfectly to support life and eventually creating a life force which through natural selection has apparently progressed to the human experience that we have today that embodies consciousness, sense of self, remorse, love, hatred, happiness, and everything in between. You believe in just as much of a FAIRYTALE. You guys will call anything that you cant explain away in a materialist worldview a "illusion" you guys are "delusional" and represent hypocrisy at it's highest level. Get off you intellectual pedestal and stop laughing at people's foundations of truth. You know nothing. The amount of knowledge to be acquired in the cosmos is infinite. You claim to have progressed on the scale of infinite knowledge. If knowledge is Infinite, how can you claim to be superior in thought and intellect? Bend your neck of "reason " and admit you are just so small in comparison to infinity. If you can create just 1 atom from absolutely "nothing" you will be closest to God in wisdom. But you cant. No one can.
Is there a link to this discord server?
@@tballs6077 isnt your first paragraph literally kalam's cosmological argument??
When my grandmother was in hospice care she couldn't track even what year it was. She was calling my father by a nick name he had not had since childhood and she was talking about working on the family farm (something she had not done in 70 years) like it was currently happening.
I feel like I just became an atheist all over again
Damn you don't how much i fucking relate
"How many animals were on Noah's ark?"
One of my friends tried to answer this question while she was Christian. After doing all the math she realized the ark would've broke...she's not Christian these says...
Huh? Why wouldnt be God powerful enough to make a boat which cant be sunk/broken?
@@sebastiand2721 because the boat, as stated in the Bible, was built out of normal lumber, by a family of mortal humans.
That's the problem with Christianity. It's spiritually true but it also presented itself as materially true. That's why so many people who were christian but never understand it left it.
shizotericar Not really. Everyone goes through questioning the material truth of the bible and the spiritual truth of the bible before leaving. Oftentimes only the spiritual truth because they never saw the bible as a factual recording of events but as stories that serve as analogies for a deeper truth. Most leave when they realise that the moral lessons told through the bible oftentimes are completely incompatible with the morals they started to adopt themselves by interacting with their environment and experiencing life.
I do like this question because I keep track of it and have had seven adults say "Well over a million". When I found that absurd I had one guy say twenty-five million.
Seems like a cool dude, hope he comes back
Wish there was less people in the call. got annoying with everyone talking over each other.
This is my only complaint, too.
When I was a good Christian 13 year old my mom told me to read the NT(plus psalms plus proverbs) before I read the OT... something about Jesus being more important than Moses.,,
They start the anti semitism young
My old pastor usually recommends that new believers start in the new testament when they read the Bible, specifically the book of John. I assumed it's seen as a proper introduction (for lack of better phrase) into the Christian faith.
My old pastor usually recommends that new believers start in the new testament when they read the Bible, specifically the book of John. I assume it's seen as a proper introduction (for lack of better phrase) into the Christian faith.
Did he just call you out for reading the old testament before the new testament? That was dumb as shit....
A lot of people are told to read NT first because it is gentler and less barbaric. It's less likely to frighten off newcomers
lol random happy accident no it was a pretty tragic accident
Jake, you needed to watch the Original Trilogy (New Testament) before the Prequels (Old Testament).
There are other metaphysical systems that make the existence of some concrete entities necessary without implying that there are any necessarily existing concrete things. In his Tractatus phase, Ludwig Wittgenstein takes a world to be a totality of facts. A fact consists of one or more objects related to each other in a certain way. By an act of selective attention, we concentrate on just the objects or just the relations. But objects and relations are always inextricably bound up with each other. Since every fact requires at least one object, a world without objects would be a world without facts. But a factless world is a contradiction in terms. Therefore, the empty world is impossible.
I have a new plot for a sci fi movie in which everything is being sucked into the conjoined black holes in the universe, and after our heroes fail and their universe disappears into the combined universal singularity, the singularity starts collapsing in on itself and ends in our "big bang". The end.
That's a good ideq
You need a love interest, a plucky sidekick, and some gun battles.
@@ceedubya4634 some epic cgi space destruction scenes, yknow, failed attempts at galaxy wide magnetic arrays, planets getting crunched by sucked in space debris, suns pulled in igniting solar systems. Stuff like that.
Interestingly enough this was a proposed mechanism for the end of the universe. It was called the Great Crunch, it's pretty interesting.
fuck that's a cool idea
This is old... but oh do i wish i had seen this when it was live! I was in a coma with a less than 10% chance of living.. i could hear and feel everything. When i was 'closest to death' there was this blissful nothing. Like the deepest of sleep. It's nothing to be afraid of. I also worked in hospice as well as was a ff/EMT for most my adult life. How this guy gets his ideas from is beyond me. Ignorance is my best guess. I mean that in an honest way, not trying to insult. I wish i could converse with people like this honestly though. I've had a lot of experiences they spoke on.
I find it so strange when people say stuff like, "death is nothing to be afraid of". Avoiding deadly injury is almost the entire point of fear. It signals your brain that danger is near.
@@Jeremy-hx7zj lol, I didn't say I was eager to fn die. That's a really weird takeaway from what I said. Tbf, it's the internet so context is often lost on me as well. I wasn't in anyway trying to imply I was eager to die, nor that I wasn't afraid of the process of dying. Everyone fears a painful death, I would think anyway. I'm only saying, I've been through a lot. I've seen death on repeat, I've survived cancer, a coma, & multiple surgeries including brain surgery for chiari malformation & hydrocephalus. When you live through that & are told the chances of dying are high, at some point you just learn to accept it. Most people with my condition tend to die in their sleep or during surgery. That seems peaceful to me. I'm not eager to die, I have two kids to raise. I'm fighting to live, hints the friggin surgeries. Lol. I'm just not afraid of being dead. I'm not afraid of a hell, or some scary after death thing.
-I probably over explained now, sorry. Hope it makes more sense now tho. Have a good one!
@@ShinyNix86 yeah, you're not afraid of being dead. That's what's weird to me. There are so many things I want to experience before I die. Once you're dead, your story is over. Sounds like you've lived a full life, so I kinda get it. But my life has intensely dull and lonely, full of failure to achieve my goals. If I find myself "being dead" tomorrow, my life was a total waste of time. Might as well have skipped the entire thing.
Holy shit that was one sided hahaha! Well done Jake!
Debating whether or not God exist is like debating whether or not there is a actual real Nicky mouse
I... I am feeling a supreme lack of context...
this was so completely off the rails that nobody even questioned the actual insane assertion that 2 BILLION people died during WWII
seriously, usually off the rails debates/arguments/conversations where someone is obviously unable to handle or understand whats going on and is upset about it is super funny, or maybe even sad in a silly way, but this was just absolutely ridiculous. this g-man dude is insane, an actual toddler.
guys, please don't try to explain physics. please. it's physically painful
whats with the gender elephant thing?
all time great debate
It's amazing that You maintain wrongness in the face of correctness. I am going to put that on a t-shirt.
"Is their something more to you than just bible study?" Jonathan mess.
Lol wow talk about babies first debate! You can't disprove X? Well shucks that proves that leprechauns exist! I'm a leprechaunist! Hahaha
How do I join jake’s discord?
17:33 Please just say “Magic isn’t real.”
Honestly baffling that anyone believes in any form of magic. There literally hasn't been a single incident of something supernatural being proven under scientific conditions in all of human history
Here's some facts from me, as a very deeply religious person.
Everyone, no matter how religious, atheistic or antitheistic they are, IS agnostic. No ands ifs or buts, We don't know, And it takes humility and character for someone to admit to that fact, And those are properties pretty much every side of any religious debate lack.
chose your religion or lack there of because it coincides with the morals you already have, don't let a few out of context quotes as an excuse for shitty behavior. Be excellent to eachother, And i'm sure that if there is a god out there, they'd be happier for it, And if there isn't a god, well then, you still were a kind person, And that's nothing but a net plus.
Fax
Quantum foam isn't nothing. It's Quantum foam.
But why do we exist? I guess God and stuff exists.
???
"We exist bc God exist and god exists because we exist" ye thats circular reasoning.
6:00
I know its bullshit, HOWEVER.. Tardigrades do live on the moon now
What do they eat?
All law and morality is derived from religion.
People use religion to mistreat women, gay people and trans people. The Bible encourages genocide and slavery. There is nothing moral about religion. Religion is the reason most countries still treat women badly. Religion is cruel and barbaric.
Sureee
No it's derived from us being social creatures. You're extremely stupid
Human beings evolved into moral creatures due to our empathy and capacity to treat others fairly. It has nothing to do with god.
@ the 23:00 mark the guy who claims to know stuff about the brain says you can't really rely on the brain because its unreliable, and that people don't really have a view of reality. So he actually made the point that atheist can't really rely on their own conclusions or anything they think at all.... Dang that's some confusing stuff right there.
Better start reading the Bible, and understand it.
Disregarding it completely is not the answer, and even less is believing in an old book because "ooh got you you said you can't rely on yourself so rely on my old book".
I think he talks about perception; sometimes you process information wrongly, like seing a B while it was D, and even allucinations. You could hear things that aren't there.
Lol why don't you look at his videos going through the bible exactly like you said he "needs" to?
Because you are scared you might learn what he did ;)
Imagine shaping your entire life on a 3000 year old book.
Love god and Jesus Christ
Love Zeus and Hercules
GOD is reli l Muslim l know THAT allah is reli there is GOD his Create for the world you will see that in hell
God does not exist.
I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into a cult.
Sureee
Your magic dad holds no power here
I read all my books from the end to beginning. That’s just how everything in life works.
Personhood is a legal term. It has nothing to do with biogenesis and development.
Did he come back?