A few years ago I made the mistake of buying a 32'' TV for my PC. I though, why pay double for an equivalent monitor when all the specs seemed the same. From far away and in movies it seemed great. But trying to read text it made my eyes hurt. I tried to mess with all the settings but could only make it slightly better that the defaults. I lasted only about a year. I thought that it was really a bad display and relegated to TV duties in the living room. And bought a monitor. To this day I had no idea that this thing called "chroma subsampling" existed! Or what it was! And of course is nowhere to be found in the specs when you buy it.
The example at around 0:50 is actually a really good example of how good a picture with heavy subsampling can still be. The picture still looks very sharp, and you have to look at details to notice the lower color resolution. Impressive!
I received a free 24" Vizio TV and have been using it as a second monitor for some time. I love it and it has speakers built in, so I don't have to use my laptop's speakers.
Been using Tvs for years, I think its's fine as long as you can get one with a low enough response time. I have seen that fringing tough on cheaper tvs, it does suck.
Yeah, I used 2 x 36" up to ~4 years ago, currently 2 x 42" which is just right for my ergonomics of head swiveling :) I work more than play on my PC, so need 2 for productivity-and 2 large monitors would've been very expensive back then.
@@DontUseHack Depends on the game, if you play competitive games you should never use a TV as your monitor but it you play relaxed single player games it's fine
My TV has 4:4:4. I'm using it right now. When it's not activated the difference is obvious. Text looks incredibly blurry without it. Figuring out how to turn it on was a real pain though. There are other settings that when turned on will turn 4:4:4 off and remove the option to turn it back on. It's a Samsung and this isn't the first Samsung TV where I had these kinds of issues. They don't seem to know how to do settings properly. For instance it auto detects when you connect a PC, but for whatever reason it locks you into settings that don't look good with a PC and won't allow you to change them (including 4:4:4). In order to change them you have to change the input label from PC to something else. No joke, the PC setting has 4:4:4 disabled and won't let you turn it on.
I gotta say when I connect my laptop to my Sony BRAVIA 40" FHD smart tv it appears like a badass monitor. Really impressed with it, it's definitely one of the better "Monitor" TVs out there...
I also have a Bravia which is my only PC display and I'm pleased with the image quality. It's 60fps and maybe like 20ms of delay but for anything that's not bleeding edge competitive it's nice.
Very informative, and perfect timing - I've just started upgraded my TV for PC gaming, and wondered what the 4:4:4 option was... It also explains some arguments I've seen regarding PS5 and XBox-X and this!
it should only be up to 21 or so at most if its a semi modern tv with a game mode or pc mode. pretty sure mine in game mode is either 11 or 21. my monitor is 2ms and i cant tell the difference. i notice instantly if it defaults to 30hz though. its a headache just trying to move the mouse. same if game mode is turned off. everything is massively delayed for all the tv's post process effects etc.
That impostor with half the price bite my ass a few years ago. Bought a 32'' LG TV as my main monitor... It looked great in movies. On everything else... Damn my eyes hurt.
@@35dilbert OMG Rita again? I do think it's funny she refers to her lady parts as a "Canal"😁. I've heard of caves and caverns but a canal being big enough to allow a container ship through is hilarious. A canal is wet though.
Thank you for that. I just thought my TV was crap, but setting it to PC mode cured the "fringing" problem. But as I'm a gamer it's back to low latency gaming mode - I can live with the fringing now that I know what it is, and what causes it.
Back in the day I used a 30 inch tv for my monitor. I wasn’t aware of chroma subsampling until I couldn’t read things properly on it. After some google searches I found a custom driver someone made that eliminates the audio going over the hdmi but improved the subsampling.
My dad heard "this video is sponsored by FreshBooks" and said, "wow you're actually studying from youtube." Thanks for the Likes guys!!! Never had this much before
Addition to that great video : If an signal is generated in 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 is (if both source and display have enough bandwidth available) determined in the displays EDID (extended display identification data) which the display transfers on every "hotplug". This data is than interpreted by your gpu (and lists every other compatible resolutions / frametates / samplings) wich then generates the signal. So : you can bypass any of those weird EDID problems by emulating the EDID in your gpu driver or via an external programmable box, which overrides the displays EDID and forces the source to do what you want it to do. Be safe though : sometimes EDIDs (so resulting signals) out of manufacturers specs (so not in TVs EDID) won't work because the signal processing of the display is not programmed to do so. But it's with a 10s try (most driver count down of you want to keep these changed settings)
monitor and tv is not the same.. i connect to tv all the time as pc.. and most the time just let youtube run.. since it just too much work try to adjust it to get usable..
@@campkira Uhm... Most TVs have none of these issues dude... I have 2 TVs in use now and both work perfect. No adjustments at all. And FYI: A TV is actually a monitor with a TV tuner...
very informative, i now run 2x 50" VA Samsung TVs in 4k for desktop productivity and the text looks super sharp. Having the large size enables me to properly utilize the 8.3m pixels that you get with 4k, and 32" just does not cut it (or even 43")!
I tried a 40" 4K backlit Vizio as a computer monitor for a few months. As a display for spreadsheets, it was fine. As a display for creating art, it was horrendous. The backlighting constantly over or under-compensated for subtle and/or extreme gradation in photos or CG art. Yikes! Went back to my 43" Dell monitor.
I made the switch from a two monitor setup to a one monitor and a 55 inch tv set up. It's amazing, so much space to play around with. It is not good for gaming as the imput lag is kinda bad. But for college lectures its amazing, I have the slides, textbook, the teacher, discord, a word doc, and chrome open all at the same time on the same monitor. If you are a student, I highly recommend a TV for productivity. It's just not going to be good for gaming, but just connect an actual monitor for that and its great.
tried lots of tvs I keep going back to my LG 42LK450U 42 inch 1080p it has the most detail its not to big great for youtube and for watching video from my PC on to. this tv has good viewing angels
everyone always says ips panels have best viewing angles. i bought one and it was terrible. blacks were blue and got even more blue if the tv was viewed even from a slight angle. this was a 2017 LG 4k smart tv. i returned it and traded it for a samsung with a VA panel. contrast ration 10 times better. blacks are black. or dark grey i guess. and viewing angle is MASSIVE. weird.
Hey what about my 320x240 tube TV? I'm sure that would do nicely. No need for subsampling when the resolution is one twenty-seventh the size of 1080p =P
Would be funny but as LTT is a serious size company they probably don't want the hassle of coping with the possible copyright claims. Yes it could be deemed "fair use" but "fair use" is not set in concrete and it's more comparable to an argument.
Bought a 29,5" (now old) tv thinking i could stream from my underpowered laptop. First issue: severly cropped borders in both 720p & 1080p. Could barely see the "start" button & the top right "close" browser X or even the backpage buttons was complete off screen. Tv had no alignment option & resizing on the laptop was possible but too much for streaming.Still works ok if you can live with the cropped borders. Works fine with consoles etc.
Normally monitors don't have coaxial cable jacks so if you pay for cable tv you wouldn't want to use a monitor as your tv. If you just stream stuff a monitor could work as a tv but, you may want to invest in a separate sound solution as monitors don't normally have great built in speakers. Fixed a typo.
I use a 55" Vizio TV, replaced from a Hisense because I could tell the input lag on the cheaper tv. I am VERY sensitive to input lag, and I have to say I have none noticeable with the Vizio. Text is amazing, 4K looks great. Only thing is at 60Hz, color is 8bit with dithering.
I have a 40" TV that's a bit older that I hookup my PC for emulation, and without configuring the difference between that and my monitors, including an entry-level 1080p144hz VA panel is night and day. Even accounting for size and PPI and whatnot.
I'm using a 4K TCL 43" 5-series as a main monitor, and it works great in PC mode - text looks fine, input lag is pretty low, and the only real limitation is the 60 Hz refresh rate. I think it's hard to beat the value proposition of a TV if you do the research to get the right one. I'd kind of like a curved display though.
00:17 - Chroma subsampling is *not* compression. If it were, then you can call 1080p "compressed 4K". Usually you guys are good at distinguishing things like this, but for a tech authority, this is a rather significant miss. Edit: That said, I was expecting a video on Display Stream Compression.
@@sushimshah2896, it isn’t. 4:2:2 is the equivalent of half the horizontal resolution and 4:2:0 is, for example, the same as using a 1080p sized color image for the color information in a 4K image. Resizing an image != compressing it’s information. A PNG image is a losslessly compressed BMP, effectively. But a 720p HD video isn’t a compressed 1080p video, et al.
Data compression is any method by which we use less number of bits to represent the source data, whether lossy or lossless. Chroma subsampling and even reduction of resolution (downsampling) are technically data compression by definition, although reduction of resolution is probably not the first thing that comes to mind when we think of compressing a video file.
@@SamriddhaBasu, despite that being true on a technical level, we do call the change of resolution resizing, which is a distinction from compression. Granted, low quality video can be distinguished by the visual identification of macro blocks, though most people call it “pixelization”. Yes, in the context of video, a macro block is a picture element, but they are different concepts.
Okay, you explained the first 4 in 4:2:2 and 4:2:0, but what about the 2 and 0? In 4:2:0, the chroma detail is halved (so 4->2 makes sense), but it's then halved again, but the 2 stays... and what are we losing completely when there's a 0??
Is this title right? Seemed they didn’t directly answer the question “Do TVs Suck As Monitors.” Maybe they did indirectly, but I was a bit lost. Does anyone want to help me out here?
Make sure the TV can do 4:4:4 and it will work fine as a monitor. I used a Samsung 40 Inch 4K UHD TV as a monitor for 2 years. I eventually "downgraded" to a 32 Inch 1440p dedicated computer monitor to get 144hz as the Samsung was stuck at 60hz (the monitor also supported FreeSync which the TV did not). Anyway, a good resource for such things is the Rtings website.
Running a Samsung Q70T 55" spat out via 2070 Super and after some minor colour correction, it looks great! Loads of real estate, easy to read sharp text, high FPS and great for movies! It DOES have some glitching with text on Explorer for some reason, possibly a refresh rate issue [?] but this is rare and I'm in contact with Samsung about it. The LG's with G-Sync are likely the better bet, but this model was literally less than half the price [AUD] so... :)
and is why i went with the NU8500 2 years ago. My goal was 1440p @ 120hz. Im still using a gtx1080 so it fits perfect. (i have it mounted high facing down on me and im like 5 feet away)
Could you do a video on if 4 3090s are necessary? I have a friend that does motion graphic design and LOTS rendering and he has friends that said they are considering upgrading from 2 x 3090s to 4 x 3090s. How useful could 4 x 3090s be in those cases?
@@Tomart0 I don’t think they use nv link or and sli stuff for there builds. The friend has a 4 x 1080ti build currently and I don’t think he uses any link stuff.
Subsampling normally just happens on compressed video from streaming or video files. Subsampling is not supposed to happen on the HDMI link from the PC to the TV since the data should go uncompressed.
Plugging my comp into a 1080p TV via vga was a bit blurry but plugged in via display port to HDMI was fine and clear even for small text. But both times the resolution in the display settings was 1920 x 1080....
@@thenman23 It is a thing. Or more correctly, can be a thing. I use it for competitive matchplay..... Just because you find it difficult, it does not mean everyone else does. (Though it did take me a few weeks getting used to it) 😜
i have 4 displays hooked up to my computer, they are all tvs, two samsungs and two tcl. only issues i have had in the years that i have been using tvs for monitors has been response times in twitch style games, and since i don't play those much it just hasn't been an issue. it all comes down to what you need/want, and i like having a bunch of relatively inexpensive large displays. don't get it twisted though, back in the crt and early lcd days using a tv as a monitor was pretty horrid. things are allot better today.
I always knew TVs are a bad idea as monitors, though tempting due to cheaper prices. I just never knew exactly why, they cause a lot more eye strain which is a big no no, I didn't really know what was doing that though. Thanks for the quick lesson! Trying to skip the expensive monitor is tempting but your eyes' health is more important.
Useful info, except that the normal way to deal with PC content is by sending the data as RGB, not as YPrPb 4:4:4. The displayed fringes also have nothing to do with chroma subsampling per se, but with "clear type" algoritms of an OS. If you disable those, black on white text looks sharp without fringes, even on 4:2:0 connections.
I played World Of Tanks with my gaming PC on my LG 4K TV for a short time. The experiences with having a wider view angle to see who was shooting at me from normally blind range on the sides on my significantly smaller monitor and how nicely the graphics looked were awesome. But, since my Gigabyte 1060 Windforce OC 6GB is lacking at 4K (it is a beast at 1080P), and TVs normally don't help with response time that monitors have, I lost a pretty good FPS chunk. Did it allow me to use higher game settings? Did it look better on the 4K TV than on a monitor at 1080P? The short answer is yes, but the experience was not perfect. The FPS drop made some of the other tanks seem to teleport while moving. That made it a bit hard to get a lock on them.
My huge TV as a monitor is doing fine, I already messed around with the color modes to remove subsampling years ago. Been gaming and consuming series and movies ect~ just fine. So I guess it's great if ya know what you are doing, so with all things... do a bit of research on a specific model if you are looking to use a good deal / sale / old stock TV as a monitor. (you can get some awesome deals on old non "smart" TV's)
Wow, it used to be input lag, refresh rate and other specs... now we're down to chroma subsampling and even that is getting gradually fixed with software. Soooo expecting monitors and TVs to be the same thing in cca. 2022 is realistic?
I wish this video had explained how different it was using YUV color space over RGB on TV when hooking PC'S. Usually taking 12 bit YUV offers much accurate color on dolby vision supported tv's compared to RGB
I have had nothing but excellent times since 2016 when I bought my 3x 40" Samsung UN40KU6290 4k 60hz tv's for use as hdmi computer monitors but I did LOTS of research before I found what I wanted (and 4:4:4 chroma subsampling was at the top of the list. I sought that out very specifically as most of the reasonably priced, reasonably sized 4k tv's at the time could only do 4:2:2, some of them had rgbw panel configurations (a way they used to improve display brightness while sacrificing actual overall pixel density), and a few at that time still had hdmi 1.4 which meant they could only do 4k at a very cinematic 30hz (NOT a great experience). What really clued me in that these tv's would do what I wanted though, was that Barnacules upgraded the previous year to a trifecta of the previous generation 50" versions of what I have, reviewed them excellently, and still uses them to this day. As they've aged, I have noticed that my tv's are beginning to get the tendency to get some minor image retention happening here and there, but only if a bright picture has been on the display for longer than 20 mins or so (which as an IT professional, I use these displays for doing lots of heavy product research, lots of ssh terminal use, as well as gaming on my off-time so having contrasty images up for fairly long periods of time happens reasonably often.) but it's typically pretty easily resolved by powering the display off for a while or just by using the thing (it goes away after a while). I still strongly recommend this configuration to anyone who really wants or needs lots of desktop real estate at reasonably high resolutions at reasonable prices. i.imgur.com/WiOhRhM.jpg - if, however, one of these panels were to up and die on me, I'd probably save up and bite the bullet on a treo of LG C9 55" 4k oled 120hz displays because of those inky totally dark black blacks, excellent overall color reproduction, SICK HDR, and higher refresh.
I wish you guys covered the cost savings in going with Chroma 4:4:4 over a gaming monitor. I cannot afford a '49 widescreen for $1200 (USD), so I went to Costco and bought a $350 43in 4k television. It is Chroma 4:4:4 and has been a life saver after having to work from home. I pretty much have the real estate of 4 monitors in one spot, then after work I can turn on my PS4 and game in the same spot.
I have use four cheap ($200 usd) 4k TV's as my monitors. I had to search around for the right displayport to hdmi 2.0 adapters and buy new cables to but they all do 444 60hz with no issues. It's amazing for everything I do.
I've got my PC connected to a LG CX 65". Pretty good experience, but there are a few issues like raised blacks when using VRR and some dimming issues while in Windows. Overall a pretty good experience, but next years models will hopefully fix these issues.
Slightly related, but does anybody know why some TVs have really bad input delay? I've got a Samsung TV that seems a decent fraction of a second behind me on the desktop and in most games, but in other games on certain settings it's fine. Most games have it bad by default, but then futzing with the resolution and framerate settings fixes the delay for some reason, and only in certain games
i leave hdmi deep colour turned off as it causes the screen to flicker every few minutes when running 4k60. i have absolutely no issues with text. sure its probably sharper on a monitor. but at 4k i cant tell the difference. and there is no colour fringing.
... HOW DID YOU GUYS GUESSED THIS VIDEO??!! I was literally finding out whether or not I should buy a monitor or a TV, then this video was posted at the exact moment I started my research. Thank you very much!!
I've got a 144 hz 27 inch monitor and a 55 inch 4k resolution tv. Used to have the 144 hz monitor as a main and tv as a secondary monitor. Over a small amount of time my tv became my main monitor and I am actually thinking about ditching the smaller one.
I'm using 32" TCL tv and it works great (and most importantly, cheap in my country)... But I'm using it only for watching video etc. (I have 3 monitors + 1 tv and only using that 32" tv occasionally for watching.) The time lag isn't unbearable for me (and frankly it not as bad as other tv) but the 4:2:0 is killing me when reading text in it...
It's hard to resurface that table with a hole drilled in on the edge of it. That and it's too large size wise and to heavy all while missing the leaf the heavy hardware is for lol.
I recently got a 50" 4k TV to use as a monitor, for $380. I made sure to get 4:4:4 color and low input latency, and it's glorious. And cost less than my graphics card. I picked it because it was rated "Best Budget 4k Gaming TV", which highly prioritized exactly this criteria.
I can't get text on my screen up to reading size from six feet away from my tv (used as monitor) so I can big screen game lol. Text isn't big enough on any game or application to read.
Buy a Samsung Frame , they are the best HDTV monitor options, 40 inch is $1k on sale sometimes for $800 4k QDot 120htz HDMI 2.1 4:4:4 with HDR and VRR Gsync compatible - I use mine for 16:10 content while having a Alienware 3440x1440 120htz Gsync Ultrawide for that content.
Ive used a Samsung nu7100 49" for a year, expect for light bleed and only 60hz + little smearing its great, but im going to buy a LG CX55 in the future! Its especially great for desktop work, and Fusion 360 is a breeze boi!
On my 22” Philips 1080p 50Hz (flatscreen but not smart) TV, I have an option in the TV settings, that enables or disables computer mode, which makes everything look sharper and actually make the desktop fit when I use it as a second screen for my laptop, is this the same as what this video is about or am I completely wrong?
my OLED LG has made a wonderful monitor, and the burned in aiming reticle makes for some sweet quick-scopes!
Nice. Actually got a laugh.
Lol
OLED displays revive burn in in a much quicker
Not as sad as sticking two strings in a cross to the borders of the screen with adhesive tape... not that I would do that, hehe of course not...
🤣
A few years ago I made the mistake of buying a 32'' TV for my PC. I though, why pay double for an equivalent monitor when all the specs seemed the same. From far away and in movies it seemed great. But trying to read text it made my eyes hurt. I tried to mess with all the settings but could only make it slightly better that the defaults. I lasted only about a year. I thought that it was really a bad display and relegated to TV duties in the living room. And bought a monitor. To this day I had no idea that this thing called "chroma subsampling" existed! Or what it was! And of course is nowhere to be found in the specs when you buy it.
Your post is bang clear on my CX 48 Oled.
@@Safetytrousers considering he bought it a few years ago it may be 1080p lmao
You need to set it to pc mode. In tv mode it looks bad upclose and performs poorly.
@@charm6654 Yes it was ~ 5 years ago. And it was a 1080p LCD from LG. It still works to this day as the TV in the bedroom.
@@charm6654 im using a 1080p 2012 model non smart TV. It does have the "PC" display option though so I dont have the issues mentioned in the video.
2:26 checking the pixels, for academic purposes of course...
xDDD
He approves.
slughorn move right there
Those were some nice pixels!
@@hongluzhang7771 Xx!?
mk
M
L
LPP
2:26 Bruh moment right there
Hi
Justin y
go away
this man can say anything and get 1k+ likes. Watch it happen.
Big bruh
2:26 yea the thiccness can be clearly seen on this monitor
It's not thicc it's T H I C C. Know the difference it could save your life.
You haven't seen the the PA32UCX then
The example at around 0:50 is actually a really good example of how good a picture with heavy subsampling can still be. The picture still looks very sharp, and you have to look at details to notice the lower color resolution. Impressive!
I received a free 24" Vizio TV and have been using it as a second monitor for some time. I love it and it has speakers built in, so I don't have to use my laptop's speakers.
Been using Tvs for years, I think its's fine as long as you can get one with a low enough response time. I have seen that fringing tough on cheaper tvs, it does suck.
same here
Me using a 50" tv as a monitor
*Sees this video*
Also me : MY TIME HAS COME
same
Yeah, I used 2 x 36" up to ~4 years ago, currently 2 x 42" which is just right for my ergonomics of head swiveling :)
I work more than play on my PC, so need 2 for productivity-and 2 large monitors would've been very expensive back then.
i have a 49" curved 4k tv. works perfect.
SAME I use a lg CX OLED 4K 120 HZ HDR G SYNC TV as a monitor lul
@@Tzyzz.x that's one hell of a television 😳
Been using a sony 4k as monitor for years now and it’s awesome!
The initial purchase wasn’t easy exactly because of this but very happy with my choice
Just when I bought a new monitor .
TVs suck
I mean most TV's arent that great as monitor's if you're wanting to play games on them. Too big, often slow as F, and low HZ.
@@DontUseHack Depends on the game, if you play competitive games you should never use a TV as your monitor but it you play relaxed single player games it's fine
@@iamsearchingforthefiletmignon The LG CX OLED can do 4k at 120fps and has instant response time and 6ms input lag. It beats literally any monitor
I literally bought a new monitor 3 hours ago. I used 15 year old TV before
My TV has 4:4:4. I'm using it right now. When it's not activated the difference is obvious. Text looks incredibly blurry without it. Figuring out how to turn it on was a real pain though. There are other settings that when turned on will turn 4:4:4 off and remove the option to turn it back on. It's a Samsung and this isn't the first Samsung TV where I had these kinds of issues. They don't seem to know how to do settings properly. For instance it auto detects when you connect a PC, but for whatever reason it locks you into settings that don't look good with a PC and won't allow you to change them (including 4:4:4). In order to change them you have to change the input label from PC to something else. No joke, the PC setting has 4:4:4 disabled and won't let you turn it on.
I gotta say when I connect my laptop to my Sony BRAVIA 40" FHD smart tv it appears like a badass monitor. Really impressed with it, it's definitely one of the better "Monitor" TVs out there...
same thing happened with me. it was not a problem
CSGO looks badass when I connect my laptop to my 1080p Sony BRAVIA TV
@@VanadiumCarbide nice
I also have a Bravia which is my only PC display and I'm pleased with the image quality. It's 60fps and maybe like 20ms of delay but for anything that's not bleeding edge competitive it's nice.
because it not cheap... still don't used to to play modren pc game.. lag like hell..
Very informative, and perfect timing - I've just started upgraded my TV for PC gaming, and wondered what the 4:4:4 option was... It also explains some arguments I've seen regarding PS5 and XBox-X and this!
After playing on a monitor for even just a few months paying on my TV felt noticeably delayed. It's about 5ms compared to around 100-150 on my TV
it should only be up to 21 or so at most if its a semi modern tv with a game mode or pc mode. pretty sure mine in game mode is either 11 or 21. my monitor is 2ms and i cant tell the difference.
i notice instantly if it defaults to 30hz though. its a headache just trying to move the mouse. same if game mode is turned off. everything is massively delayed for all the tv's post process effects etc.
@@socks2441 my TV is several years old at this point, and the only "game mode" it has adjusts colors only.
@@wubbzy265 dang, thats unfortunate. its lucky you have a good monitor then :)
I could never understand who actually "dislike" a video you guys make.. it's not like you guys are way off on the content! Keep it up!
When the store puts up a 32 inch Tv along with 32 inch monitors
Monitors: There is 1 Impostor Among Us
@@iwantsexseemyvideo890 A tomato?
That impostor with half the price bite my ass a few years ago. Bought a 32'' LG TV as my main monitor... It looked great in movies. On everything else... Damn my eyes hurt.
@@35dilbert OMG Rita again? I do think it's funny she refers to her lady parts as a "Canal"😁. I've heard of caves and caverns but a canal being big enough to allow a container ship through is hilarious. A canal is wet though.
@@CheapBastard1988 Its a guy.
@@CheapBastard1988 canal is german for channel bruh
I have a 43” 4K tv and it’s amazing. 10ms input lag and 4:4:4 chromasubsampling. Never had a better gaming and productivity experience
Samsung neo qled tv?
I use a 32" TV as a monitor, works great.
TV + Cheap wireless logitech keyboard = Input lag over 9000
I literally can't play CSGO on the PC that has the best specs.
@@leehongjin6884 Solution: get the non-cheap logitech wireless mice and keyboards
@@richmahogany1 My dad says nope.
Has Ryzen 3900X and 2080 Super and 64GB of RAM but can't understand input lag and whatnot.
I think its a 4k LG TV.
@@leehongjin6884 should've researched the tv you're buying as a monitor then, especially the latency and refresh rate
@@AL-hk3oo My dad makes the decisions not me.
Shout out to you for making this video 4:29 min. Feel like anybody else would drag this out to get over 10 min
0:13 I tried to close the video stats box even though I’m on mobile. I’m an idiot.
You can enable it even though it looks a bit different
@@sushimshah2896 how idk on mobile only pc
@@insanitylol settings stats for nerds
@@insanitylol Settings->General->Starts for nerds
Thank you for that. I just thought my TV was crap, but setting it to PC mode cured the "fringing" problem. But as I'm a gamer it's back to low latency gaming mode - I can live with the fringing now that I know what it is, and what causes it.
A dude I work(ed) with uses a 46" 4K on his work-from-home setup and loves it
I mean turning off chroma subsampling should be ok
Back in the day I used a 30 inch tv for my monitor. I wasn’t aware of chroma subsampling until I couldn’t read things properly on it. After some google searches I found a custom driver someone made that eliminates the audio going over the hdmi but improved the subsampling.
My dad heard "this video is sponsored by FreshBooks" and said, "wow you're actually studying from youtube."
Thanks for the Likes guys!!! Never had this much before
You technically are studying
Ripley's believe it or not called and were asking to show this once in a lifetime coincidence.
I'm guessing he has no idea what FreshBooks is
_SNEAK: LEVEL_ 💯
Lmao
Addition to that great video :
If an signal is generated in 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 is (if both source and display have enough bandwidth available) determined in the displays EDID (extended display identification data) which the display transfers on every "hotplug". This data is than interpreted by your gpu (and lists every other compatible resolutions / frametates / samplings) wich then generates the signal.
So : you can bypass any of those weird EDID problems by emulating the EDID in your gpu driver or via an external programmable box, which overrides the displays EDID and forces the source to do what you want it to do.
Be safe though : sometimes EDIDs (so resulting signals) out of manufacturers specs (so not in TVs EDID) won't work because the signal processing of the display is not programmed to do so.
But it's with a 10s try (most driver count down of you want to keep these changed settings)
Im too dumb for this...brain big mad
Old title: Why expensive tv's can suck as monitors
monitor and tv is not the same.. i connect to tv all the time as pc.. and most the time just let youtube run.. since it just too much work try to adjust it to get usable..
@@campkira I already watched the video
wasn't click baity enough.
@@campkira Uhm... Most TVs have none of these issues dude... I have 2 TVs in use now and both work perfect. No adjustments at all.
And FYI: A TV is actually a monitor with a TV tuner...
very informative, i now run 2x 50" VA Samsung TVs in 4k for desktop productivity and the text looks super sharp. Having the large size enables me to properly utilize the 8.3m pixels that you get with 4k, and 32" just does not cut it (or even 43")!
3:49 free Xbox
Nice
I have this 02:35. How to get rid of it? It is a monitor display and not a TV.
This video ID refers to "Why Are Phones All The Same Shape?" rather than Rick Astley, and that saddens me.
They tricked us, because we expected Rick.
@@mikeuk1927 They knew they had to do it to us.
I tried a 40" 4K backlit Vizio as a computer monitor for a few months. As a display for spreadsheets, it was fine. As a display for creating art, it was horrendous. The backlighting constantly over or under-compensated for subtle and/or extreme gradation in photos or CG art. Yikes! Went back to my 43" Dell monitor.
I have a 43" HDTV used as a monitor. I can't go back to small screens anymore.
I made the switch from a two monitor setup to a one monitor and a 55 inch tv set up. It's amazing, so much space to play around with. It is not good for gaming as the imput lag is kinda bad. But for college lectures its amazing, I have the slides, textbook, the teacher, discord, a word doc, and chrome open all at the same time on the same monitor. If you are a student, I highly recommend a TV for productivity. It's just not going to be good for gaming, but just connect an actual monitor for that and its great.
tried lots of tvs I keep going back to my LG 42LK450U 42 inch 1080p it has the most detail its not to big great for youtube and for watching video from my PC on to. this tv has good viewing angels
everyone always says ips panels have best viewing angles. i bought one and it was terrible. blacks were blue and got even more blue if the tv was viewed even from a slight angle. this was a 2017 LG 4k smart tv. i returned it and traded it for a samsung with a VA panel. contrast ration 10 times better. blacks are black. or dark grey i guess. and viewing angle is MASSIVE. weird.
@@socks2441 might have been a defective model?
@@eenjoch9212 yeah, maybe 🤔
Hey what about my 320x240 tube TV? I'm sure that would do nicely. No need for subsampling when the resolution is one twenty-seventh the size of 1080p =P
0:12 You missed the opportunity to insert rickroll here
I dont see why he would put a rickroll
Would be funny but as LTT is a serious size company they probably don't want the hassle of coping with the possible copyright claims. Yes it could be deemed "fair use" but "fair use" is not set in concrete and it's more comparable to an argument.
True!!! Haha :) I tried it oOwpzx4hZuc
@@CheapBastard1988 Copyright claims for a video ID?
Bought a 29,5" (now old) tv thinking i could stream from my underpowered laptop. First issue: severly cropped borders in both 720p & 1080p. Could barely see the "start" button & the top right "close" browser X or even the backpage buttons was complete off screen. Tv had no alignment option & resizing on the laptop was possible but too much for streaming.Still works ok if you can live with the cropped borders. Works fine with consoles etc.
can a monitor be used as tv?
Yeah... If ur cable box can be connected with HDMI
Normally monitors don't have coaxial cable jacks so if you pay for cable tv you wouldn't want to use a monitor as your tv. If you just stream stuff a monitor could work as a tv but, you may want to invest in a separate sound solution as monitors don't normally have great built in speakers.
Fixed a typo.
This used to be stupid hard. You needed to get a tv tuner back in the day. They all sucked super hard.
I use a 55" Vizio TV, replaced from a Hisense because I could tell the input lag on the cheaper tv. I am VERY sensitive to input lag, and I have to say I have none noticeable with the Vizio. Text is amazing, 4K looks great. Only thing is at 60Hz, color is 8bit with dithering.
love your shirt, represent! :) x
What is the difference between RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format and YCbCr 4:4:4 Pixel Format? It can be found in AMD Radeon > Settings > Display > Pixel Format.
I have found that RGB has slightly darker grey than YCbCr.
I gotta say, the 10-year-old in me laughed at the "4:2:0"
Why ?
im 30 and i still get a kick out of numbers like that. i just did a dirt rally stage a while back and my exact time was 4:20. awesome. ;)
@@UtkarshUpadhyayTheGreat marijuana.
@@christinehede7578 😂😂😂😂
I have a 40" TV that's a bit older that I hookup my PC for emulation, and without configuring the difference between that and my monitors, including an entry-level 1080p144hz VA panel is night and day. Even accounting for size and PPI and whatnot.
Where 4:2:0 Adobe Premiere Pro? 🤷♂️
Wdym? Premiere can read and render 4:2:0 video so I'm confused.
I'm using a 4K TCL 43" 5-series as a main monitor, and it works great in PC mode - text looks fine, input lag is pretty low, and the only real limitation is the 60 Hz refresh rate. I think it's hard to beat the value proposition of a TV if you do the research to get the right one. I'd kind of like a curved display though.
Same with my 55" Sony. Apparently, it automatically is in "graphics" mode, when using it with a PC.
00:17 - Chroma subsampling is *not* compression. If it were, then you can call 1080p "compressed 4K". Usually you guys are good at distinguishing things like this, but for a tech authority, this is a rather significant miss.
Edit: That said, I was expecting a video on Display Stream Compression.
I too want a Tech-Quickie on FRC, dithering, DSC, etc.
I'm not sure if Chroma sub-sampling is compression or not, but I guess it is
@@sushimshah2896, it isn’t. 4:2:2 is the equivalent of half the horizontal resolution and 4:2:0 is, for example, the same as using a 1080p sized color image for the color information in a 4K image.
Resizing an image != compressing it’s information. A PNG image is a losslessly compressed BMP, effectively. But a 720p HD video isn’t a compressed 1080p video, et al.
Data compression is any method by which we use less number of bits to represent the source data, whether lossy or lossless. Chroma subsampling and even reduction of resolution (downsampling) are technically data compression by definition, although reduction of resolution is probably not the first thing that comes to mind when we think of compressing a video file.
@@SamriddhaBasu, despite that being true on a technical level, we do call the change of resolution resizing, which is a distinction from compression.
Granted, low quality video can be distinguished by the visual identification of macro blocks, though most people call it “pixelization”. Yes, in the context of video, a macro block is a picture element, but they are different concepts.
Okay, you explained the first 4 in 4:2:2 and 4:2:0, but what about the 2 and 0? In 4:2:0, the chroma detail is halved (so 4->2 makes sense), but it's then halved again, but the 2 stays... and what are we losing completely when there's a 0??
Is this title right? Seemed they didn’t directly answer the question “Do TVs Suck As Monitors.” Maybe they did indirectly, but I was a bit lost. Does anyone want to help me out here?
Make sure the TV can do 4:4:4 and it will work fine as a monitor. I used a Samsung 40 Inch 4K UHD TV as a monitor for 2 years. I eventually "downgraded" to a 32 Inch 1440p dedicated computer monitor to get 144hz as the Samsung was stuck at 60hz (the monitor also supported FreeSync which the TV did not). Anyway, a good resource for such things is the Rtings website.
Running a Samsung Q70T 55" spat out via 2070 Super and after some minor colour correction, it looks great! Loads of real estate, easy to read sharp text, high FPS and great for movies! It DOES have some glitching with text on Explorer for some reason, possibly a refresh rate issue [?] but this is rare and I'm in contact with Samsung about it.
The LG's with G-Sync are likely the better bet, but this model was literally less than half the price [AUD] so... :)
i wanted so much to ask the meaning of 4:2:0 :D
Nice job. And nice shirt. I hope Linus wont find out that you dont use only LTT store cloths
420blazeit
4k samsung tv here. 1/2 price of 4k monitor. It has a PC setting that uses 4:4:4 text looks perfect. I use it 12 hours a day to code. Love it.
Yea, that's why going to sites like Rtings is very useful when buying a TV. Its literally god-send!
and is why i went with the NU8500 2 years ago. My goal was 1440p @ 120hz. Im still using a gtx1080 so it fits perfect. (i have it mounted high facing down on me and im like 5 feet away)
Sometimes I wish you could choose less compression since I have a 1GB/s wifi and am never able to fully utilize it.
This is the new problem that Sony X900H owners are dealing with at 4k 120 hz after the firmware update.
Could you do a video on if 4 3090s are necessary? I have a friend that does motion graphic design and LOTS rendering and he has friends that said they are considering upgrading from 2 x 3090s to 4 x 3090s. How useful could 4 x 3090s be in those cases?
Isn't there only a 2 connector NVLink bridge for the 30-Series?
@@Tomart0 I don’t think they use nv link or and sli stuff for there builds. The friend has a 4 x 1080ti build currently and I don’t think he uses any link stuff.
I love it when James says "Fffffreshbooks"
Subsampling normally just happens on compressed video from streaming or video files. Subsampling is not supposed to happen on the HDMI link from the PC to the TV since the data should go uncompressed.
2:26
Laura Sub Sampling there huh...
Plugging my comp into a 1080p TV via vga was a bit blurry but plugged in via display port to HDMI was fine and clear even for small text. But both times the resolution in the display settings was 1920 x 1080....
i use a 47" 1080p tv as my monitor for 3 years and i love it
duh thats terrible.
i had 43 inch 4k tv and it was terrible lmfao way too big. impossible to play keyboard and mouse on
@@thenman23 erm.........i use my 55inch LG 4K OLED TV as my monitor. I have no problems playing M&K on it. Now i will never go for anything smaller. 🤣
@@FreddieFraggs uh yeah its actually possible, called an over exaggeration bud but for competitive online gameplay its not a thing (obviously)
@@thenman23 It is a thing. Or more correctly, can be a thing. I use it for competitive matchplay..... Just because you find it difficult, it does not mean everyone else does. (Though it did take me a few weeks getting used to it) 😜
i have 4 displays hooked up to my computer, they are all tvs, two samsungs and two tcl. only issues i have had in the years that i have been using tvs for monitors has been response times in twitch style games, and since i don't play those much it just hasn't been an issue. it all comes down to what you need/want, and i like having a bunch of relatively inexpensive large displays. don't get it twisted though, back in the crt and early lcd days using a tv as a monitor was pretty horrid. things are allot better today.
Expensive TVs suck unless you get them for free
Dr. Brule's rules
Time to go shopping during the next wave of riots lol
Everything sucks unless you get it for free.
I always knew TVs are a bad idea as monitors, though tempting due to cheaper prices. I just never knew exactly why, they cause a lot more eye strain which is a big no no, I didn't really know what was doing that though. Thanks for the quick lesson! Trying to skip the expensive monitor is tempting but your eyes' health is more important.
Short answer: no
Long answer: long no
Short answer: No
Long answer: No they do not
Useful info, except that the normal way to deal with PC content is by sending the data as RGB, not as YPrPb 4:4:4. The displayed fringes also have nothing to do with chroma subsampling per se, but with "clear type" algoritms of an OS. If you disable those, black on white text looks sharp without fringes, even on 4:2:0 connections.
Oh look I have arrived early for the first time ever!
Same
🍅🍎
How did you manage such a feat ?
@@4doorsmorewhors I have no Idea.
I played World Of Tanks with my gaming PC on my LG 4K TV for a short time. The experiences with having a wider view angle to see who was shooting at me from normally blind range on the sides on my significantly smaller monitor and how nicely the graphics looked were awesome. But, since my Gigabyte 1060 Windforce OC 6GB is lacking at 4K (it is a beast at 1080P), and TVs normally don't help with response time that monitors have, I lost a pretty good FPS chunk. Did it allow me to use higher game settings? Did it look better on the 4K TV than on a monitor at 1080P? The short answer is yes, but the experience was not perfect. The FPS drop made some of the other tanks seem to teleport while moving. That made it a bit hard to get a lock on them.
learning stuff I will never use. Too similar to a school.
@thecouchtripper no u
@thecouchtripper lol
My huge TV as a monitor is doing fine, I already messed around with the color modes to remove subsampling years ago. Been gaming and consuming series and movies ect~ just fine.
So I guess it's great if ya know what you are doing, so with all things... do a bit of research on a specific model if you are looking to use a good deal / sale / old stock TV as a monitor. (you can get some awesome deals on old non "smart" TV's)
4:2:0 is better because it's a funny number
nice
Wow, it used to be input lag, refresh rate and other specs... now we're down to chroma subsampling and even that is getting gradually fixed with software. Soooo expecting monitors and TVs to be the same thing in cca. 2022 is realistic?
Short answer: Depends, in most of the cases the tv's are just fine as monitors, even in games.
I wish this video had explained how different it was using YUV color space over RGB on TV when hooking PC'S. Usually taking 12 bit YUV offers much accurate color on dolby vision supported tv's compared to RGB
Claim your “here before a million views” ticket here
no
No
E
I have had nothing but excellent times since 2016 when I bought my 3x 40" Samsung UN40KU6290 4k 60hz tv's for use as hdmi computer monitors but I did LOTS of research before I found what I wanted (and 4:4:4 chroma subsampling was at the top of the list. I sought that out very specifically as most of the reasonably priced, reasonably sized 4k tv's at the time could only do 4:2:2, some of them had rgbw panel configurations (a way they used to improve display brightness while sacrificing actual overall pixel density), and a few at that time still had hdmi 1.4 which meant they could only do 4k at a very cinematic 30hz (NOT a great experience). What really clued me in that these tv's would do what I wanted though, was that Barnacules upgraded the previous year to a trifecta of the previous generation 50" versions of what I have, reviewed them excellently, and still uses them to this day. As they've aged, I have noticed that my tv's are beginning to get the tendency to get some minor image retention happening here and there, but only if a bright picture has been on the display for longer than 20 mins or so (which as an IT professional, I use these displays for doing lots of heavy product research, lots of ssh terminal use, as well as gaming on my off-time so having contrasty images up for fairly long periods of time happens reasonably often.) but it's typically pretty easily resolved by powering the display off for a while or just by using the thing (it goes away after a while). I still strongly recommend this configuration to anyone who really wants or needs lots of desktop real estate at reasonably high resolutions at reasonable prices. i.imgur.com/WiOhRhM.jpg - if, however, one of these panels were to up and die on me, I'd probably save up and bite the bullet on a treo of LG C9 55" 4k oled 120hz displays because of those inky totally dark black blacks, excellent overall color reproduction, SICK HDR, and higher refresh.
I wish you guys covered the cost savings in going with Chroma 4:4:4 over a gaming monitor. I cannot afford a '49 widescreen for $1200 (USD), so I went to Costco and bought a $350 43in 4k television. It is Chroma 4:4:4 and has been a life saver after having to work from home. I pretty much have the real estate of 4 monitors in one spot, then after work I can turn on my PS4 and game in the same spot.
Is there anyway to actually know (or measure) what display mode (4:2:X) is currently used.... I mean apart from reading TFM or the specs.
DUDE! I thought my vision was just crap. I recognized my LG os in the video and was like "wait..." Mind actually blown. THANK YOU.
I use ccx a 40 inch 4K Vizio TV I bought at Best Buy in January. It works just fine for me. I do video editing and photography.
Can you guys do an episode on IME (Intel Management Engine)?
I have use four cheap ($200 usd) 4k TV's as my monitors. I had to search around for the right displayport to hdmi 2.0 adapters and buy new cables to but they all do 444 60hz with no issues. It's amazing for everything I do.
If the screen has 4.4.4 sampling, it’d improve the cable viewing option? Or just use the auto setting for the sampling?
I've got my PC connected to a LG CX 65". Pretty good experience, but there are a few issues like raised blacks when using VRR and some dimming issues while in Windows. Overall a pretty good experience, but next years models will hopefully fix these issues.
James can you make a series about explaining peripherals and what to look for in them?
Slightly related, but does anybody know why some TVs have really bad input delay?
I've got a Samsung TV that seems a decent fraction of a second behind me on the desktop and in most games, but in other games on certain settings it's fine.
Most games have it bad by default, but then futzing with the resolution and framerate settings fixes the delay for some reason, and only in certain games
i leave hdmi deep colour turned off as it causes the screen to flicker every few minutes when running 4k60. i have absolutely no issues with text. sure its probably sharper on a monitor. but at 4k i cant tell the difference. and there is no colour fringing.
... HOW DID YOU GUYS GUESSED THIS VIDEO??!! I was literally finding out whether or not I should buy a monitor or a TV, then this video was posted at the exact moment I started my research. Thank you very much!!
I've got a 144 hz 27 inch monitor and a 55 inch 4k resolution tv. Used to have the 144 hz monitor as a main and tv as a secondary monitor. Over a small amount of time my tv became my main monitor and I am actually thinking about ditching the smaller one.
I'm using 32" TCL tv and it works great (and most importantly, cheap in my country)...
But I'm using it only for watching video etc. (I have 3 monitors + 1 tv and only using that 32" tv occasionally for watching.)
The time lag isn't unbearable for me (and frankly it not as bad as other tv) but the 4:2:0 is killing me when reading text in it...
It's hard to resurface that table with a hole drilled in on the edge of it. That and it's too large size wise and to heavy all while missing the leaf the heavy hardware is for lol.
I recently got a 50" 4k TV to use as a monitor, for $380. I made sure to get 4:4:4 color and low input latency, and it's glorious. And cost less than my graphics card. I picked it because it was rated "Best Budget 4k Gaming TV", which highly prioritized exactly this criteria.
I can't get text on my screen up to reading size from six feet away from my tv (used as monitor) so I can big screen game lol. Text isn't big enough on any game or application to read.
Do high-end Sony LCD TVs support 4:4:4 chroma? Like 65X900H? If they do, is this enough to make them a good enough 4k monitor?
If TV's have a PC mode to display in 4:4:4, why do they need to subsample at all?
Buy a Samsung Frame , they are the best HDTV monitor options, 40 inch is $1k on sale sometimes for $800
4k QDot 120htz HDMI 2.1 4:4:4 with HDR and VRR Gsync compatible - I use mine for 16:10 content while having a Alienware 3440x1440 120htz Gsync Ultrawide for that content.
chroma subsampling is also why its hard to key green (or any color key) on footage from some cheaper cameras, they compress the color too much.
Ive used a Samsung nu7100 49" for a year, expect for light bleed and only 60hz + little smearing its great, but im going to buy a LG CX55 in the future!
Its especially great for desktop work, and Fusion 360 is a breeze boi!
On my 22” Philips 1080p 50Hz (flatscreen but not smart) TV, I have an option in the TV settings, that enables or disables computer mode, which makes everything look sharper and actually make the desktop fit when I use it as a second screen for my laptop, is this the same as what this video is about or am I completely wrong?
I use 2 Vizo 32 and 2 TCL 32 in a 4 monitor setup. 1080p is all I need and I dont game. Works great!